The Premium Personality Package!

Summary

We Ride at Dawn (ish)

Episode Title: The Premium Personality Package!
Date: July 9, 2026
Hosts: Jessica Capshaw (Jess) & Camilla Luddington (Cam)

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Episode Overview

This lively conversation spotlights the layers within personal relationships, centered on the idea of the "Premium Personality Package"—the inner circle who gets to see your authentic self. The hosts swap stories about Hollywood encounters, dissect tiers of intimacy in friendships, and humorously debate the evolution of "cool" from cigarette smoking to vaping. Expect playful banter, moments of unexpected depth, and reflections on friendship, boundaries, and the quirks of modern social dynamics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hollywood Encounters & The Art of the Free Consult

• Cam’s Story at Mr. Chow (00:30 – 04:10):

  • Camilla shares a story about attending a birthday dinner at the celebrity hotspot Mr. Chow and unexpectedly encountering Dr. Terry Dubrow from Botched.

  • Her friends urge her to approach him because she “plays a doctor” on TV.

  • Camilla uses the opportunity to jokingly ask for a free plastic surgery consult.

  • Hilarious moment where Dr. Dubrow tells Cam her character’s career jump from General Surgery to OB-GYN on Grey’s Anatomy is essentially unheard of in real medicine.

    “Never in the history of medicine has anyone gone from an attending general surgeon to an OB.”
    — Dr. Terry Dubrow, relayed by Camilla (03:34)

• Camilla ponders the real-world plausibility of her character’s journey and asks listeners if they know anyone who’s made a similar career move.

2. Plastic Surgery, Beauty Standards & Lip Fails

• Perceptions Around Cosmetic Procedures (07:07 – 11:00):

  • Jess and Cam discuss how plastic surgery and minor procedures are increasingly normalized, especially for younger generations—even in their 30s.
  • Both hosts share awkward and funny experiences about being complimented (or reverse-complimented) for supposedly “done” features they’ve never had touched.

• Lip Flip Anecdote (08:52 – 09:55):

  • Jessica hilariously describes watching a woman at a party who couldn’t sip from a straw after a “lip flip” Botox treatment.

    “She could not...wrap her lips around the straw. Like, every time she’d get near it, it would move a different direction and she couldn’t get it in her mouth.”
    — Jessica (09:22)

  • Cam breaks down the ‘lip flip’: “If you get a lip flip, you do Botox here...and it, like, lowers your lip. Maybe it makes a pout, but apparently, to sip on a straw, you’re gonna have trouble.” (09:41–09:55)

3. Childhood Nicknames & Family Teasing

• Round Faces & Family Roasting (10:08 – 12:00):
  • Camilla reveals her nickname was “Balloon Head”; Jess’s was “Pie Face.”
  • They bond over how family teasing and cousin experiences (“Miss Piggy Wrist,” roughhousing, and summer swimming pranks) create formative memories.

4. Introducing: The Premium Personality Package (Triple P)

• Defining the Tiers (13:05 – 15:46):

  • Cam introduces the “Premium Personality Package”—the fullest, realest version of yourself reserved for a select few.

  • There’s a “basic cable tier” for acquaintances while only close, trusted friends access the Triple P.

    “It’s you behind closed doors...the real you...but not everybody qualifies, and there are different tiers.”
    — Camilla (14:09)

  • Jess confirms Cam has earned full access to her premium package, discussing what it takes to make the cut.

• How Many Qualify? (15:46 – 19:07):

  • Both estimate fewer than ten friends currently hold the premium pass.

  • The group naturally gets smaller with age and deeper with trust.

    “It actually takes energy, right? The premium package...you’re sort of reserving yourself from the ‘lower’ tiers.”
    — Camilla (16:00)

5. Friend Groups, Cliques, and Social Dynamics

• Modern Cliques & Social Rebranding (17:24 – 18:44):
  • Jess observes that “friend groups” have replaced “cliques” but the dynamics remain the same, only less overtly exclusive.
  • Both hosts prefer small, “tiny but mighty” friend groups.

6. Losing (and Regaining) Access to the Triple P

• Demotions, Drift, and Growth (20:16 – 26:20):

  • Both reflect on friends who’ve lost ‘premium’ status due to distance, broken trust, or simply growing apart.

  • Jessica shares an instance where she had to explicitly “break up” with a friend after a fiery fallout (21:55).

  • They discuss whether downgraded friends can ever truly regain access, agreeing that deep shared history leaves a lasting impression, even if the “updated software” of their personality isn’t refreshed.

    “Once you have the triple P, you have the triple P...You have the knowledge. It’s just whether or not you keep refreshing it.”
    — Jessica (25:09)

7. Dating and the Premium Package

• Should You Give the Triple P on a First Date? (26:35 – 30:48):

  • Cam argues it’s a waste of time to lead with your “basic cable” personality in dating, preferring to show the real her up front.

  • Jess and Cam debate the merits of aloofness and signature moves in romantic dynamics.

    “If you looked back and you were like, I didn’t show up as my real self...”
    — Jessica (27:46)

• Cam finds the best relationships grew from full vulnerability and “triple P” access, including her marriage.

8. Smoking vs. Vaping: Has ‘Cool’ Changed?

• Nostalgia and Changing Norms (31:10 – 34:21):

  • Jess and Cam reminisce about the cinematic cool of 90s movie smoking (James Dean “leaning, puff of smoke” imagery) and ask if vaping has the same cultural cachet now.

  • They joke about vape “poses” and generational differences.

    “That’s not getting a triple P ever. I saw that, that’s...basic package. Not even a trailer.”
    — Camilla (33:14)

9. Conversation Starter Packs & Faux-Intimacy

• Deep Dives at Dinner Parties (35:32 – 37:37):
  • Jess describes a recent experience with “conversation starter packs” designed to spark vulnerability in groups.
  • Camilla compares it to “Real Housewives” dinner drama; both agree that the right group is crucial to avoid emotional chaos.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Camilla on seeking validation from a cosmetic surgeon:

“I just turned to him, I said, Terry, like, I knew him. I was like, what do I need?” (02:58)

Jessica, on advice from professionals:

“What I would have been thinking about on my drive home was how I was told by a professional that I needed nothing to be done with my face. It was just perfect as it was.” (06:19)

Jess, on her close friend group:

“My friend group has always been tiny but mighty. I prefer to be with people one-on-one or in small groups. I’m not a big person. So…maybe less than 10 of just my friends have qualified for the triple P.” (18:15)

Camilla, explaining the ‘demotion’ process:

“I’m a little bit like, I blame the Sagittarius. I’m a little bit like, okay, bye. You’ve been demoted.” (20:28)

Jessica, on irrevocable personality access:

“Once you have the triple P, you have the triple P. Even if you downgraded me…if I moved across the world and phones ceased to exist, I would still have the triple P. I have the knowledge.” (25:09)

On vaping vs. smoking and generational "cool":

“Do you think that people feel the same way about vaping?…God, no!”
— Jessica and Camilla (32:10–32:11)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Cam’s Hollywood story/Dr. Dubrow encounter: 00:30 – 04:10
• Plastic surgery & “lip flip” story: 07:07 – 09:55
• Childhood nicknames & family stories: 10:08 – 12:00
• Defining the Premium Personality Package: 13:05 – 15:46
• Counting the inner circle; Friend group discussion: 17:24 – 18:44
• Losing, regaining access to full personality: 20:16 – 26:20
• Triple P and dating: 26:35 – 30:48
• Smoking vs. vaping, generational cool: 31:10 – 34:21
• Conversation-starter packs & group vulnerability: 35:32 – 37:37

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Listener Questions

• Do you have a “Premium Personality Package” or a similar system—who qualifies?
• Have you ever lost or regained access to someone else’s “triple P”?
• Is vaping cinematic or sexy, or are Jess & Cam totally off-base?
• How do you handle conversation-starter packs at dinner parties—friend or foe?

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Tone

Warm, candid, irreverent, and inviting—Camilla and Jessica hold nothing back as they share, laugh, and reflect on the evolution (and boundaries) of deep friendship.

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Summary

This episode of We Ride at Dawn (ish) delves into the rules of intimacy in friendships, the quirks of Hollywood life, and the shifting standards of beauty and “cool”—all through the lens of trusted, unfiltered camaraderie. Camilla and Jessica shine a spotlight on what it means to truly let others into our lives, how we set boundaries, and why the most treasured connections are the ones who earn (and keep) all-access passes to our real selves.

Transcript

[A]

I'm Jessica Capshaw.

[B]

And I'm Camilla Ludington. And welcome to another episode of We Ride at Dawnish. Jess, I have a story that I didn't tell you, and I literally saved it for the podcast. You.

[A]

Oh, you do this?

[B]

Sometimes I do this.

[A]

And by the way, it's actually terrible. I'll be doing all you, and I'll be like, hey, what's up? And you'll be like, nothing.

[B]

Save it for the pod.

[A]

Yeah, save it for the pod.

[B]

We do a lot of save it for the pod, save it for the

[A]

podcast, save it for the pod.

[B]

But I felt like everyone needed to hear this alongside you for the first time.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah. No spoilers. I didn't get any spoilers.

[B]

Okay. So my. One of my best girlfriends, Sam, she had her birthday, okay. And we just. You know, we plan to just go do a dinner, right? So we went to Mr. Chow in Beverly Hills, which is his fancy.

[A]

Fancy. Very fancy.

[B]

Love a fancy dinner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And excellent food. And whenever. Because I've been there with you, whenever you're there. I've seen someone very famous, right? Like, I've seen Lady Gaga there. I've seen Kanye there. It is.

[A]

It is a fame. A famous people magnet. A little bit.

[B]

A little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we sit down, and my girlfriend loves reality tv, like me. We sit down and the table next to us had. Do you know who Terry Dubrow is? He's the doctor from Botched.

[A]

No, I have no.

[B]

You don't know the show Botched, Jess?

[A]

Not at all.

[B]

Botch. Just, like, standard. It's like, people, like, come in and they're botched, dude. Oh, they need Terry's. Okay, well, anyway, Terry was there. They're famous, Jess. Clearly. And literally, Sam and I were like, oh, my God. And everyone was like, you should. Everyone. Our table was like, you should say something because you're also a doctor. I was like, you guys, I'm not actually a do. What am I gonna say? Hey, we're both doctors. Let's have a doctory convo. Like, there's nothing to be said.

[A]

You're also not eating sticks, but okay. Yeah, go on.

[B]

Yeah, we're eating. And my girlfriend's just like, she's dying. She's so excited. I'm like, this is the best birthday gift ever. And as they walk out, okay. Because they walk by our table, she's like, I have to say something. And so I'm like, do it.

[A]

Do.

[B]

It's your birthday. And she's like, hey, I just have to tell you Guys, I love you so much. Like, I watch your shows. Da, da, da. And they were so, so nice. Right? And they were chic and all the things. And then my. I start talking to him, and then I just thought, like, this is my moment to have a free consult. Because he does.

[A]

With someone who's literally responsible. Do they do in this. The show's called Botched, but this person, this doctor fixes the botched.

[B]

He fixes the botched, but he doesn't. He doesn't just do botched. I mean, he does, like, all the things. He does, like, the whole thing. And so I literally. I was like, this is my moment. Like, I'm not gonna have to pay tons of money. And I just turned to him, I said, terry, like, I knew him. I was like, what do I need? And I just stared into his eyes, and I even did one of these. I did, like, a gold thing.

[A]

Yes. Too.

[B]

I said, is it a this or is it a this? And he, like, laughed. Wouldn't. Of course. He's like, you know, not. Not giving this kind of out for free.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then one of my girlfriends says, she's a doctor, too. She plays a doctor on a show. And he said, what show? And I said, I am an OB on Grey's Anatomy, but I was a general surgeon on Grey's Anatomy. And he was like, hold up. You were a general surgeon? And I was like, yes, I was a general surgeon attending. And then I decided to be an ob, and now I'm an OB resident. And he said to me, never in the history of medicine has anyone gone from an attending general surgeon to an ob. And I didn't know what to say. And ever since then, I've wondered if that's true.

[A]

How. And you're. And your character's living a lie. Did you ask Meg?

[B]

I could. I said, terry, there are reasons that she's changed. Okay. Watch the show, Terry. Yeah, there are fantastic reasons why she's made that jump. And by the way.

[A]

And they're very dramatic.

[B]

Maybe her jumping back. We don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I did find it's the difference

[A]

between non scripted and scripted television. Terri.

[B]

Yes. But it sat with me, like, in the real world, how rare is this jump that Jo Wilson has done?

[A]

Those your interior thoughts as you drove home that night?

[B]

It literally was. And so I want to know. I'm asking listeners, do you have someone in your life or do you know someone in your life that has gone from general surgery to ob? Because apparently this is very rare. And I It never has ever occurred to me, playing this character, that this might be a very strange jump that she's done. For good reason. But anyway, so I just had to

[A]

tell you that I have a follow up question. Did he give any reason for why it was so wild and unbelievable and it had never been done, or did he just say that?

[B]

I think the impression that I got is there are like tears. I don't know if it's like even a financial thing, but there are tears of like, you're a general surgeon.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And that, like. Okay, but I don't. I have. I don't really know, but apparently, I mean, listen, this is why I'm throwing this story out here.

[A]

I don't know. I was gonna say, but. But yes. And I was just. While you. I was seeing where it, you know, hit on or tread upon any memory I have of my time at Gray's, and I was thinking about the fact that I. That Arizona Robbins changed. I'm so far out, I don't remember what they're called. Disciplines. Departments.

[B]

Departments. Wait, wait, wait. What do you mean Arizona changed apartments?

[A]

Well, she was in peds. When you first meet her, she's in peace. And then fetal. Yeah. And then she's in fetal medicine by the time she leaves, which is ob. Ish adjacent question.

[B]

I mean. Yeah, I feel like that maybe that makes more sense. Right. Because it's more of like a specialty within your specialty. Yeah. I don't know, but I've thought about this conversation ever since and I've, like, I've wondered.

[A]

What I would have been thinking about on my drive home was how I was told by a professional that I needed nothing to be done with my face. And it was just perfect as it was.

[B]

That's not how the conversation went, Jess.

[A]

Oh, that's what I heard.

[B]

The conversation was, I could see in his eyes maybe, maybe I needed something, but he didn't.

[A]

Oh, was he being nice?

[B]

No, he was actually very nice. He was like, you don't need anything.

[A]

So if he had been kind, would

[B]

he have said, if he had been. He was being nice. If he had been kind, he'd have been like, there's no hope for you.

[A]

We need to do come see me here. I'm slip you my card. That's what we're going to do. We're going to fix you. Right? Don't worry. We're going to fix you right up.

[B]

They were wonderful. They were there and they totally made our night. And I was already a fan. And now I'm Even more of a fan of both of them.

[A]

Well, on another note, that's kind of unrelatable slash relatable, because people are just talking about plastic surgery so much these days, is I always heard that if you go to someone, you're not supposed to say, what do I need? What? Which is what you did.

[B]

Yeah, I signed it. Right.

[A]

Because everyone's perception of beauty or an ideal is different. And I mean, listen, you see some. Well, to your point, you see some pretty botched jobs. Right. So I think the thing that I've. I hear people saying is they go. You. They try to look for people who have gone. Or if someone looks great, they ask where they've gone to. I've had reverse compliments sent my way in that direction, by the way. I've had people ask me where I got things done that I didn't get done.

[B]

And I've been like, stop.

[A]

Glad that that looks like I did that. But I didn't.

[B]

Oh, that's so funny. But wait, I kind of don't understand. I do think what's tough right now, especially in America, especially in Hollywood, is that, like, we're being told that the facelifts are not happening. Like, it's not your grandma's facelift, you know, like, it's like you. You're in your 30s. Like, maybe go get a little.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It seems like it's happening younger and younger when people talk about it.

[B]

Yeah. It's like. I don't think it would have occurred to me to even be like, terry, what do I need?

[A]

Oh, it's being fed in every direction. Yeah. Evidently you're supposed to say what it is that you see. Like, if you look at. I don't know, but it's not like,

[B]

kind of body dysmorphia. Like, if I go in and I'm like, listen, I need the lips. I need the da, da, da, da. Is I know what I'm seeing staring at myself every day in the mirror is not.

[A]

That I was at a cocktail party one time, and I was talking to this woman, and she had, like, one of those little cocktail straws, and she had, like, a short glass and a cocktail, and she, like, was talking to me animatedly, whatever, and she brought the glass up to her lips, and she went to go put her lips around the straw, and I don't know what she did. It's like something happened. She did something to her lips, and she couldn't get the straw on her.

[B]

Wait, I think I know what this is.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

It's It's. It's a lip flip. The lip flip.

[A]

She could not. No. Wrap her lips around the straw. Like, it kept, like, darting. Like every time she get near it, it would move a different direction and she couldn't get in her mouth. And then once she did, she couldn't. Yeah, it was.

[B]

Yes. If you get a lip flip. You do Botox here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think it lowers your lip. Maybe if, like, I don't know what lips are, it does something to your lip that, like, apparently, like a pout, like a.

[A]

Like a flip.

[B]

Oh. That you can to sip on a straw. You're going to have trouble.

[A]

But they might look bigger. But you want, like, bigger lips. Like, they look bigger when you do it.

[B]

I don't know. Because it's not like filler in your lips.

[A]

Filler scares me.

[B]

Filler is very scary. I don't need to. My face is, like, round.

[A]

I mean, we always bonded over the round face, which I used to strongly dislike. I tell my kids not to say hey, so I have to. So I have to follow the rules. I strongly used to dislike my very round face. I was so mean to myself about it, too.

[B]

Listen, I'm not against, like, I. I honestly think that filler on. On and done a certain way with probably looks amazing.

[A]

I throw no shade at whoever wants to do whatever. I'm just saying.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

It turns out, by the way, that

[B]

one day I won't be like, fill me up.

[A]

Yeah, maybe.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

But I feel like I had too much fill. My face was big enough. It does. I think it does serve you as you mature.

[B]

Yeah. Do you know what my nickname was when I was a kid? Like my mean nickname.

[A]

What?

[B]

Have we talked about this?

[A]

No. But I had one and so did my mom.

[B]

Really? Mine was Balloon Head.

[A]

And mine was Pie Face.

[B]

Because we're so round. I know that's you guys.

[A]

And also someone called me Miss Piggy Wrist. I had thick wrists.

[B]

Miss Piggy.

[A]

That's neither here nor there.

[B]

Specific.

[A]

It was my cousin.

[B]

It was she.

[A]

When she wanted to be mean, she could get me.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

There's nothing like familial meanness. You know what I mean? Like, you know that. No, they're not gonna go anywhere. They can't. They're stuck with you.

[B]

Yeah, they can't.

[A]

They can be as mean as they want.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Do you remember when going swimming used to be like, if you went swimming with a cousin, think you might die? That's what I thought. I mean, I thought, oh, because they're gonna, like, dunk you. Oh, I. I absolutely have been submerged underwater against my will to the point at which I thought no more breath was going to come my way. Like I was gonna die. Have you ever felt this? I don't think you're recognizing this.

[B]

I. Well, I might not happen to you. No, I'm thinking that I have an older brother and. Did she try to kill you? You know, Daniel used to. On my older brother. We used to do. We used to watch WWF and. And. And we used to reenact. He was Hulk Hogan, and I was like, I don't know, the Undertaker, whatever. And we used. We used to reenact wwf. And then he used to lift me like this. Hang on. He had to lift me like this and then throw me on the couch.

[A]

Oh, it was like.

[B]

And then I had my own signature move. You guys don't know this. And it was.

[A]

No one knows this gorilla.

[B]

And it was gorilla legs like this. And I don't know why he called it. But anyway, that was my.

[A]

You. You called it gorilla legs.

[B]

I don't know why. Doesn't make sense. But I would be on my back and my legs would be cycling like this. And he's like, oh, Camilla the gorilla.

[A]

I mean, it kind of rhymes. Camilla the gorilla. It was my signature move, the double L. There's.

[B]

None of this has anything to do with. With what I want to actually talk about today, by the way.

[A]

And yet I thank you for it all.

[B]

I got distracted by the dupros.

[A]

What do you want to talk about today?

[B]

Have you heard of the premium Personality package?

[A]

Jessica Capshaw, Premium Personality package?

[B]

The ppp.

[A]

No. No.

[B]

Well, the triple P. Luckily for you, you have qualified for mine. Oh, yes.

[A]

Do you imagine that you've qualified for mine?

[B]

I think that I've qualified for yours. But let's talk about. And you can tell me if I'm on, if I have made the tier to the premium package.

[A]

Okay, great, Great. Okay, I'm for it.

[B]

So I made some notes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Basically, the ppp, the premium personality package, is you. It's all of you. And the people that qualify for this package, right. Are the people that you probably love and trust the most. So you're going to feel free to joke the way you want to joke and be honest and say what's on your mind and all the things. Right? It has personality.

[A]

It's you behind closed doors.

[B]

It's the real you behind closed. Exactly. But not everybody in your life qualifies for that. And there are different tiers. And so for example, there's just like the basic, the basic cable tier. Okay. And that's you. Like, maybe they get a little, a little of you, but you're sort of like their opinion of you might be that you're shy or quiet or I don't know what's, you know, like standoffish or whatever it is, but they're not getting the ppp. And in order to like qualify for the different tiers, you have to earn it. And so my question is for you. Well, first off, have I qualified for your premium package? Personality.

[A]

Like my full personality?

[B]

The full spectrum of my personality?

[A]

Yes, yes, absolutely. I don't, I can't think of something I wouldn't come to you or that I feel self conscious coming to you about.

[B]

No, no, but then what does it take to qualify for that tier? And could someone new sort of like end up qualifying fast?

[A]

Yeah, I feel like those are the people that you're like, oh my gosh, I feel like I've known you my whole life when you've only known each other a little bit.

[B]

But are you like giving them sometimes. Okay, this is the other thing. You're giving them a little sneak peek at the personality. The premium version.

[A]

Like a trailer.

[B]

They can handle it.

[A]

You can give them a trailer.

[B]

Little trailer.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because they might be new. Yeah. Like, are you trying to free trial month. Yeah, A preacher. Exactly. And then can they handle it? How many people in your life do you think get your premium personality package?

[A]

Well, you automatically start charging them without them remembering they need to.

[B]

Yeah, but like how many cancel it before I start? No more than 10 people in my life have the premium package.

[A]

Oh, you're making me think.

[B]

Yeah, you gotta think about it. Because what people are saying online is that like the premium package actually takes energy. Right. Because you're like, you're not. The other tiers, the lower tiers, you're sort of reserving yourself.

[A]

Yeah. You're not. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Give yourself to people like, well, how about. I don't think you give the package to 50 people.

[A]

How does that relate to also? Okay, I can see how it would take some earning on someone's part, but I can also see how you would need to feel. If I think about who qualifies for the triple P package in my life, it would be the people that I feel the safest around that I feel like I could make mistakes in front of and have a take back or not be. I actually like being held accountable if it's done kindly. If you're being a dick about it. No, thank you. But like, if you're trying to catch. No, like, no, but, but if, but if you want to like have a real talk, then let's have a real talk. Yeah, I mean, 10. Well, it's funny, it's like there'd be different file folders for different ones on some level. Right. Because there's like your family because they've known you the long.

[B]

I feel like that doesn't count. I feel like family aside, family doesn't count, right? Yeah, families, like, I feel like that's a different thing because you grew up with them. They probably got a version of the ppp and whether you've like remove them from that is a different thing. Well, but I have to say I

[A]

listen to my daughters talk a lot about. I guess back in the, in my day in the Jurassic, there was cliques like you, you know, like when, like the mean girls movies, they would be, they would be little cliques. Right back to the Heathers. Yeah, like there were cliques. Now they say friend groups and when you're in a friend group, you. If there's movement within the friend groups, it's. It's conspicuous. Like you're, it's, It's a thing. It's a direction you're going in. So your friend group knows you really well.

[B]

Is the friend group now still just the same version of the click that we grew up with?

[A]

Yes, absolutely. So it's the same thing. Different.

[B]

There's been a rebrand, but it's been a.

[A]

There's been a rebrand.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes. This one sounds. Friend group sounds far less exclusive. You would get in less trouble for being.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For being exclusionary or not or excluding people.

[B]

Yes, but it's the same thing.

[A]

But it's the same. It's the same thing. I have always had like, because, because my kids question to me was always been like, who's your friend group? My friend group has always been tiny but mighty because I prefer to be with people one on one or in small groups. Like, I'm not a big person. So the people. So there's probably, I think maybe less than 10 of just my friends that have qualified for the triple P. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

I think I'm probably more like around. I don't know, I mean, eight would be generous. You think? 10. You've got all these friends I don't know about. I have, I don't know why she has all these friends I don't know about. I'm fine with it, but I have.

[B]

I do have my mommy group who have qualified. I can be ridiculous in front of them.

[A]

Yeah. And then.

[B]

And myself and say all the things. And then I have you. And I have a couple of people that I've grown up with and it probably is about 10. However, I will say.

[A]

Oh, the grown up with. Because those are. Those are sneaky ones. You're. No, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right. I might, I might have underestimated. Yeah.

[B]

Who like those people, like, sort of. They're kind of fit into that family of like, they've seen it all.

[A]

Yeah. Well. And also they remember, like, they know where the bodies are buried and they remember the stories about you when you had, you know, far less filter, far less maturity, far less wisdom. And you do. You did some epically stupid. And they were there and they saw it and they remember.

[B]

Well, this is. They don't have a picture of it

[A]

because it didn't happen when there were phones and cameras in them, but it happened in their mind.

[B]

This is what I think. I think in my 20s, too many people qualified for the package.

[A]

Yeah. Well, we were.

[B]

And as I get older, it becomes harder to qualify.

[A]

I agree that it does become harder to qualify. I have a question. This is a tough one.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Has anyone that's ever qualified then sort of like lost.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Their membership?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Have you had to have a conversation about it or does it happen organically and just sort of fade away?

[B]

I haven't had to have a conversation about it. Which is maybe even sadder, to be honest. It's because sometimes it's just like, for me, little things can build where I'm like clocking stuff and then I'm a. This is not mature of me, but I'm a little bit like, I blame the Sagittarius. I'm a little bit like, okay, bye. You've been demoted. The tears. Been demoted. Like, I'll go with you. But I'm not. I don't trust you now. If I'm going to tell you things about like, my family or like, for sure. Oh, my God. Yes. Sorry. I just really thought it's for sure.

[A]

Sorry to whoever that was. Well, I always say to people who are going off to college, I always say that you spend your first year in college making all the friends that you spend the rest of your years trying to get rid of. Like, I think when you're younger you just, you know, you're so excited to be there and you're so Excited to fit in and. Or have someone who wants you to be with them and sit at the lunch table because you got the tray and you're like, I gotta sit with somebody. And so you sort of like, you're. You're more eager. And so sometimes maybe you do pound square pegs into round holes. And then all of a sudden, once you have a little more comfortability and ease, you kind of look around and go, hmm, I don't actually know that this would be where I should be sitting.

[B]

Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, too many people. You qualify off the bat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you're having to downgrade and the down. Well, have you ever had to, like, has anyone lost a tear?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I have two things to say about that. Number one, I did have a friendship that grew fast and furious, and then it really flamed out. And it didn't just go softly into that good night. There had to be a conversation. It had to be on my end. And I had to really struggle with being really uncomfortable. And at the 99th time that I said, like, I couldn't do something say, like, I don't think we fit. I don't, I don't. I probably blacked out from just the sheer fact that I had to be oppositional because it's not my nature. But I remember it being very hard and I remember, yeah, I would not prefer it. I'd rather it just sort of go away. But the second thing that I have to say about that is I was so surprised. I.

[B]

A friend,

[A]

a friend's daughters at the college that I went to and was doing a piece for the school newspaper and said, can she interview on you? And I said, yes, of course. And so we did a zoom, and she did an interview and she said her follow up question was, can I talk to two others? You know, two of your friends from college? And I thought, oh, my gosh, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because number one, everyone's so busy. Number two, my. I mean, my life absolutely has those people in it, but in ways they're not necessarily like, hey, there's a deadline by, like, end of day. Can you talk to someone?

[B]

Also, like, do I want someone who has my personality premiere package situation talking to somebody else about the package?

[A]

Right, right, Yes. I mean, yes, yes, of course, of course, of course. I mean, but I know them and I trust them so much. Anyways, I reached out to two of them and I have to say, it was. There's nothing like a friend who's known you for forever and has the full triple P. And it reminded me that those two people who are not a part of my daily or even weekly life absolutely still have my whole heart and the things that they said and that they wrote and, and everything else, like I felt so seen and I was, I have to say it was actually a really unexpected lift. And like I said, I mean I was shy to ask for them to take the time to do it. I was all the things. But they have the triple P and they fully came through for me.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like, I guess my, my follow up question as well though here is that like if you have had the triple P and there's a conversation about like this is not working anymore, does the downgrade and in packaged access to you actually work or is it once you've gotten to the top and it's not working, it's done? Because I think it's very hard to like demote the tears.

[A]

I don't know. I think life is long, you know, life is long in a lot of ways. I mean, in these ways it feels long because I've had, I've had that happen and then I've had resurgences or I've thought a friend.

[B]

You have, you had a friend that had the triple P and did they get back to the triple P?

[A]

Well, I think. Okay, so I have an, I have a new contribution to this concept. I actually think that once you have the triple P, you have the triple P. If you have a, you have a full understanding and like you get the working knowledge of Camilla Leddington, you're not gonna, even if the person gets downgraded, even if you downgraded me, even if I moved to, you know, across the world and phones cease to exist and technology cease to exist, I would still have the triple P. I have the knowledge. Right. It's just whether or not you keep refreshing it and, and, and adding to it.

[B]

Yes. Because I feel like the people that got that in my 20s really don't they, and, and, and, or 30s or whenever and it's, it's not there anymore. They don't know me now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because we change so much. Right. So it's like the store, they don't know any of the stories.

[A]

Right. But interestingly enough, my guess is that they know a lot of how you got to be you now. Like they know a lot of what went into be you, becoming you, what contributed to how you got wired and put together.

[B]

I mean, parts of it. Yeah. Because I feel like that's not Some people dropped out along the way and things happen after that that, like, have gotten me to where I am now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But they. So they have. They hold a piece of it. But like, also things have changed. Like, I think there's definitely parts of my personality that have changed. And. And so, yeah, that's what they have a. They hold a version of that. My question to you is dating if you're on a first date.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The truth is, is that I think that you should show the triple P,

[A]

but I think you'd earn the triple

[B]

P even though it's not earned triple

[A]

P on first date not being they. More. Because it's romantic because you don't want to.

[B]

Not because it's romantic, because if I was single and I went on a date with a guy. Yeah. I feel like it's a waste of my time a little bit. I'm thinking of this in the moment. It's been a long time, so I don't know how I really feel, but this is what I'm thinking. It'd be a waste of my time in the moment if he was just giving me a lower tier. Like, I understand why. Right. But like, I kind of want to see who you are. I want to see how you joke, how open you are. You don't have to tell me all the intimate, like, you know, skeletons in the closet and all things.

[A]

But, like, I don't know if I

[B]

would want to go on a first date ever. And it's like the lower tier package. So I feel like dating wise, I'm wondering if it's different.

[A]

That's actually an interesting consideration. Like, should you bring. Because you could also. I mean, first date could also be a last date. And if you like.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And you looked back and you were like, I didn't show up as my real self.

[B]

Exactly. I think it benefits people who are single to maybe the qualifications a little bit different in the dating world is all I'm saying.

[A]

Be bolder. Be a little more generous with the, with the membership.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Although I have to say, I don't know if my husband. We were friends for a little bit, but there was a time when we weren't really friends and we weren't like, we just weren't close. And he didn't get the triple P.

[A]

He didn't get the triple. You were holding back.

[B]

Yeah, because. Yes, but I was not thinking of him in terms of dating. I was thinking of him in terms of friendship. In my defense.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Right now, of course, he's got the quadruple P. I think he probably wish

[A]

he had lefties to hear from people about this. Like, do you think it's better to. To go full on a. On a. If. If it's a romantic setting? Because we're definitely saying it sounds like. It sounds like we're saying you're not within the friendship sector. In the friendship zone, you definitely should be mindful of what earning it.

[B]

It's earned. Yeah, 100%.

[A]

But in the room, in the, in the. At first blush romantic sector, you need to go all in.

[B]

I think that it's a.

[A]

Hold on.

[B]

I think it's a different tier system or qualification for the tier system.

[A]

But what about the whole like, isn't there that. Like the. Isn't that. Clearly it was never me. This was not what I was ever strong at. Is the aloof. Like, isn't the aloof meant to be like.

[B]

Oh, I was queen of aloof. You were queen. You were. Oh my God.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

So good at aloof. I was so good at like a little flirty and then like whatever. Yeah. Getting signature move, baby. Signature moves.

[A]

Would it happen during like one date or would it happen like during the course of the week, like within the date? Would you seem like a different person when you came back from the bathroom or something? It would happen.

[B]

No, like, no, it could happen during a date where I would. I would definitely. Oh my God. I mean, literally, I'm like having to mine for these memories. It would happen where I would like reel him in a little bit and just toss them out on a date. Little reel, little back in the water.

[A]

You tighten the line and then you'd let it. Let it run.

[B]

And then I just. Yeah. Throw them back in midday so they have to peek. They'd have to repique my interest for me to.

[A]

So let me ask you a question. Did that work?

[B]

Reel it back in. Yeah, of course it works.

[A]

Wow. So this is kind of. So I guess we just answered. So I. And is that your. Is that your full personality? Were you giving your friend?

[B]

I. I was not triple peeing it. No, absolutely not. But you know what? This is why I actually think that it has worked like Matt and I have worked so well together is because he was subjected to the premium personality package for a long time before we ever even had a smooch.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So like I. And I feel the same way about him. Like I, he. By the way, no one's more aloof than Matt. His. I used to nickname him James Dean because like back then we were taking like Smoke breaks, right? Like, outside of Barney's Beanery. And he'd be in the corner, like. I'm like, God, he's so. Like, what's his deal? But I know him so differently.

[A]

Package.

[B]

I was so one sinker, baby.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I would have. I would love a time travel machine. I would love to go back to

[B]

that and just see Jessica.

[A]

We would have leaning up against the back of the. The building.

[B]

Please. If you'd seen me in that alleyway. You're seeing just a puff of smoke.

[A]

See, when you say James Dean, I do think. I think about the smoking, and it feels like, so, like. Like, you know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

A little spicy.

[B]

But he wasn't even, like, doing it on purpose, which is the annoying thing. It wasn't performative in any way. It was just like.

[A]

No, it was just him being cute.

[B]

Just him being. Just him being sexy and hot in

[A]

the corner, reeling you in and then letting it run.

[B]

Oh, I got reeled in bad.

[A]

Yeah, you got reeled in.

[B]

You got something real out.

[A]

Do people feel the same way? I. I don't know the answer to this question. Do you think that people feel the same way about, like, smoking back in, like, old movies was kind of, like, sexy or cool or like, even if in the 90s when it was, like, grungy, like, reality bites, sexies, whatever. Do you think that people feel the same way about vaping?

[B]

God, no.

[A]

Yeah, right? It's gross. I know it's gross, but, like, sorry, everyone, um, that does that. It's like, it's not this. Like, cigarettes had smoke. There's no thing. It seemed like it was like. I don't know.

[B]

Now I'm wondering if we're wrong, Jess. Like, maybe. Maybe the generation right now, like, it is that version where they're like, oh, he's so. Like.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Remember how, like, I feel like guys did it more than girls, where they would, like, pinch it in their fingers and like. Like that. Like, girls would always two finger. A lot of girls would like to finger it, and it would be like, you know, the caricature of.

[B]

And then the guys would do, like, the.

[A]

The guys. The James Dean. Yeah. And then they'd, like, like, put it down.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, do you think that there's different postures and handholds for vape pens? Like that?

[B]

Oh, my God. I've never thought about.

[A]

I'm just asking.

[B]

Wait, is anyone doing this with a vape pen? Because I have some serious. I have some serious questions about that. That looks terrible. I'm not digging.

[A]

That's. That.

[B]

That's not getting a triple P ever. I saw that. That's not. That's yours. Basic. Basic package. Not even a trailer.

[A]

Seriously. Well, you know, these things that we talk about, I then go out into the world and like I said, I see them, you know, here and there. Yeah. They're going to be like, why is that woman staring at me while I'm just trying to enjoy a quick vape. Do they call it a quick vape? They're doing this.

[B]

There's good reason.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

These are things.

[A]

I don't know why we need to

[B]

hear from everybody listening and watching right now. Like, we have so many questions on this podcast. Have you heard of the Triple P package? Okay, is. Is that something that you feel differently about? Friendships versus romance? And. And. And is vaping sexy, most importantly, and.

[A]

Or cinematic? Like, is it a. Is it a vibe?

[B]

It is. I don't think it's cinematic, but maybe it is. And we're like oldies. Oldies.

[A]

Yeah, we might be. I mean, you don't see it much in. I don't ever see it in movies.

[B]

And you know what? I just. I watch the boys, and they're vaping and the boys.

[A]

So maybe there. Yes.

[B]

But I don't think it looks cool. I think it looks, like, odd, but it's also just like, not. I. I haven't. I don't even know how a vape would work, Honestly, that's how. Like, un vapey, vapey.

[A]

I don't either. I don't either. And sometimes people who I would never in a million years think vape, do vape. Like, I feel like you knew who smoked. Like, you could predict a smoker. You would look at them and be like, yeah, that person smokes. Like, when they pulled out the cigarette, you're like, it's make sense. But sometimes people pull out a vape and you're like, no way.

[B]

So we want to hear from you guys, most importantly, about the vaping. Could have done a whole lot.

[A]

We don't. We don't. That's not right. We want to hear about the Triple P. We want to hear about whether or not you give it. If you get it. It'd be interesting to figure out how many people I'm gonna do. Now. I'm just gonna be doing some mental math, but how many people you. Who. Who have yours and how many people you have and see how that compares.

[B]

Oh, that's juicy. Because what if you're like 10 people have mine. And you're like, wait a second. Yeah, only one. I only have one person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or maybe you were like, wait a second. I don't think I'm getting the triple

[A]

P. Yeah, well, you know, by the way, I have volunteer. I went to a dinner party and someone pulled out. I can't remember what it's called. I'll have it for next time. But there's these. I mean, basically, in the nerdiest way, they're conversation starter packs.

[B]

Yeah, I've seen those.

[A]

But they're really fucking great questions. Like, they're very, very, very nuanced and juicy and hard to answer. And they're not just like, you know, they're not just conversation starters. They're like real juicy questions. And it gave way to the most interesting conversation. And I thought, gosh, like, I think maybe we've gotten to the point where we're on our phone so much that in real life you have to have a conversation starter pack.

[B]

Yeah. By the way, I'm not sure. I don't know how I feel about that because, like, if they're asking deep dive questions and you are amongst lower personality tier subscribers.

[A]

Well, I felt like you could. I mean, listen, it's your choice. You could digest your answer, but it was. It was an intimate group and it was. Yeah, no, there's. Some of them were really. Yeah, it was like one person picked one and they had. There were six people there and they had to ask the question of one other person. And so you had to choose that person. It was like, what do you want from me?

[B]

Who do you hate?

[A]

No, what do you want from me that you think I. That I might have a hard time giving you or something like that. And honestly, because it was so, like, there was such a stark comparison from like, you're, you know, you're.

[B]

Ha. You're.

[A]

You're having a bite of your chicken in one minute and the next thing you're being asked a question like that. It's in a. You're. You're kind of like, you're not. You're not fully.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You answer honestly.

[B]

Wow, I don't know about this. I don't know if I hate this game because the per. Like, I. This feels. You know what this feels like? This feels like a Real Housewives dinner. This is how fights get started on the Housewives, Jess.

[A]

Well, I think if you're in the wrong group, it definitely could be baiting 100.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. Like, it feels a little baity. All right. Okay, you guys are wrapping it up. Don't forget to tune in to next week's We Write It Dottish episode and drop all your comments. Okay?

[A]

Well, I feel like I've learned a lot. I think I've recalled a lot. And see you next week by.