The Very First MESSY MAILBAG!

Summary

We Ride at Dawn (ish): The Very First MESSY MAILBAG!

Podcast: We Ride at Dawn (ish)
Hosts: Jessica Capshaw & Camilla Luddington
Release Date: July 16, 2026
Episode: The Very First MESSY MAILBAG!

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Episode Overview

In this lively and unfiltered episode, Jessica Capshaw and Camilla Luddington open up their “Messy Mailbag” for the very first time, answering listener questions ranging from behind-the-scenes secrets to advice on friendship, motherhood, and self-acceptance. With margaritas (at least for Camilla), pens, and plenty of laughter, the hosts share honest reflections on transitions, boundaries, TV drama, and the beauty of embracing life’s “ish.”

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Birth of "We Ride at Dawn (ish)"

(02:09–06:14)

• Mailbag Kickoff: The duo dives into the first mailbag email, humorously attributing it to “Olivia Munn” and thanking listeners for their support of the rebrand and YouTube launch.
• Secret Planning: The hosts reveal the transition took several months, starting in the New Year. They desired a fresh start and a show rooted in authenticity.
  • “It wasn’t quite six months, but it was up there.” (Jessica, 03:05)
• Naming Insight: The phrase “We Ride at Dawn” emerged from their real-life rallying cry, symbolizing perseverance even—especially—on hard days.
  • “For me, the ‘we ride at dawn’ is when I’m actually sometimes even feeling perilously close to not riding… but we need to ride.” (Jessica, 04:21)
• The Power of “Ish”: The “ish” reflects both the unpredictability of life and Camilla’s experience with motherhood and autoimmune fatigue.
  • “My life absolutely lives in the ish physically, like, my rally cry lives on the ish.” (Camilla, 05:04)
• Creative Process: The name was chosen organically between the two, after much back-and-forth and brainstorming.

2. Letting Go of Perfectionism & Embracing the “Gray”

(06:26–11:13)

• Personal Growth: Jessica discusses shifting from black-and-white thinking to accepting ambiguity, prompted by life’s repeated lessons.
  • “I think you grow in the gray.” (Jessica, 09:04)
• Memorable Quote: “You have to get a little messy to figure out how to get out of it.” (Jessica, 07:08)
• People-Pleaser Recovery: Both hosts relate to the need to control as a coping mechanism, not just perfectionism.
  • “I wasn’t trying to be perfect all the time so much as I thought that being right kept me safe.” (Jessica, 09:26)
• Being Right vs. Getting It Right: Jessica shares wisdom about valuing relationships over always being “right.”
  • “If you’re concerned about the relationship, then you’re gonna want to get it right. And getting it right definitely lives far more in the ish and the gray.” (10:54)

3. Real-Life & TV Realities Collide

(11:00–12:49)

• Camilla’s Grey’s Anatomy Plot Reality Check:
  • After meeting Dr. Terry Dubrow from Botched, Camilla realizes her character’s medical career path is improbable.
  • “It's not that, like, it made me question her choices because the writers have, like, teed it up so well... it just didn't occur to me maybe how wild it was for her to make that change.” (Camilla, 11:44)
  • She promises to ask the show’s medical advisors for clarification.

4. Behind the Stunts & TV Drama

(12:49–16:34)

• “Turtling” During a Stunt:
  • Jessica recalls a stunt mishap on 911 Nashville’s finale, landing on her back and unable to get up due to “giant boss boots.”
  • “I was so mad that I was on my back.” (Jessica, 13:47)
  • The rage in the scene was real, a blend of character and real-time frustration.
• Female Rage on TV:
  • Camilla appreciates seeing Jessica’s character “Blythe” breaking her usual poise.
  • “She didn’t give a fuck if she broke all the nails.” (Camilla, 14:56)
• Foreshadowing:
  • “Nothing will [be] the same after this.” (Jessica, 16:42)

5. Dream Casting & Crossovers

(16:49–19:21)

• Manifesting Guest Appearances:
  • Wild wishes for Tom Cruise, Anna Paquin, and Hilary Burton to guest star on their shows.
  • “If you could get Tom Cruise on 911 Nashville, they'd figure out how to come up with the insurance money.” (Jessica, 18:24)

6. The “Messy” in Friendship

(19:23–21:04)

• Margarita & Underwear Fiascos:
  • Humor over Camilla never returning borrowed underwear (“They are official. They're in rotation. And I will forever think of her every time I wear them.” — Camilla, 20:01)
  • Lighthearted banter about seamless underwear, body comforts, and avoiding “hostage situation” underwear: “I don't want underwear that are holding on for dear life.” (Jessica, 20:49)
• Recommendations:
  • Jessica urges Camilla to watch “DTF St. Louis” (for a specific underwear scene), and Camilla encourages Jessica to watch “Off Campus.”

7. Navigating Teen Screen Habits & Dark TV

(21:14–22:40)

• Discussion about how teens secretly watch provocative shows on laptops to avoid parental discovery.
  • “I see you, teenagers. I see you.” (Jessica, 21:57)
• Both hosts admit they struggle with the dark tone of shows like “Euphoria.”

8. Nice vs. Kind—Challenging Decisions in Friendships

(23:03–25:41)

• Scenario: Should a listener say yes to expensive bridesmaid duties out of niceness or be honest (kindness)?
• Advice:
  • Money is a fair reason to decline; honesty is the route to kindness.
  • “Maybe me and you can do something different. I would love to, like, take you to dinner or whatever it is. I think that you just come at it with love.” (Camilla, 25:06)
  • “Always say what’s true because you can keep track of it. You can’t keep track of [fibs].” (Jessica, 25:06)

9. Healthy Boundaries in Dating—The Triple Personality Package (PPP)

(25:41–29:27)

• Full Authenticity vs. Self-Protection:
  • Taylor, a listener, asks how to balance honesty and aloofness on first dates.
  • Camilla confesses to once wielding aloofness with flair: “I'll reel them in and toss them back out.”
  • Both agree on the value of being strategic—not manipulative—in self-disclosure.
    • “You give what you know isn’t gonna come at a cost to you later… That won’t make you feel like you get burned.” (Jessica, 28:11)
• Notable Insight:
  • Don’t say you love hiking unless you actually do—avoid “date yes-ing” and hold healthy boundaries.

10. Facing "Empty Nest" Emotions

(29:29–33:28)

• Parenting Heartbreak:
  • Listener Becca asks about coping with pre-college sadness. Jessica gets candid about the grief and pride of watching her child approach independence.
  • “The only way out is through—you gotta just know you're going to be sad…you’re not doing your job if it’s not sad.” (Jessica, 30:26)
  • Jessica references a visual—feelings shrinking over time—and stresses acceptance of the sadness.
• Camilla’s Plan:
  • Jokingly, Camilla says she’ll only allow her daughter to apply to colleges within a five-mile radius.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On embracing imperfection:
  • “I think you grow in the gray.” — Jessica (09:04)
• On letting go of control:
  • “I thought being right kept me safe.” — Jessica (09:26)
• On messy friendship:
  • “You didn’t remember to bring a margarita, but your business glasses… and your pen.” — Camilla (01:44)
• On true TV drama:
  • “Let’s normalize the rage. No, you lose your shit is what happens.” — Jessica (15:19)
• On friendship and boundaries:
  • “Always say what’s true, because you can keep track of it.” — Jessica (25:06)
• On dating and authenticity:
  • “You give what you know isn’t gonna come at a cost to you later.” — Jessica (28:11)
• On parenting and letting go:
  • “You’re not doing your job if it’s not sad.” — Jessica (30:26)
• Aspirational guest wish:
  • “If you could get Tom Cruise on 911 Nashville, they’d figure out how to come up with the insurance money.” — Jessica (18:24)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:09 – Welcome to the mailbag: show’s origin and rebrand story
• 06:26 – Leaning into “the gray” and abandoning perfectionism
• 11:00 – Grey’s Anatomy medical realism, Camilla’s OB residency reflection
• 12:49 – 911 Nashville stunt story: “turtling” in boss boots
• 16:49 – Dream cast crossovers and manifesting wild guest stars
• 19:23 – Underwear-lending tales and real friendship dynamics
• 21:14 – Teen screen habits and TV’s dark turn
• 23:03 – Bridesmaid dilemma: the nice vs. kind debate
• 25:41 – First date boundaries: the Triple Personality Package
• 29:29 – Facing pre-college sadness and the “empty nest” moment

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Tone and Language

The episode is conversational, playful, and deeply authentic, filled with friendly banter, pop culture asides, and genuine confessions. Jessica and Camilla maintain a vibe that's equal parts best-friends-hanging-out and life-coaching-with-a-wink. Listeners get heartfelt advice, candid admissions, and plenty of laughter—plus a healthy celebration of the messy middle ground (“ish”) that defines modern life.

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Listener Takeaways

• Embrace the “ish”—life, motherhood, and friendship aren’t black and white.
• Kindness sometimes means saying a hard “no” with honesty and love.
• Boundaries in friendship and dating are self-care, not games.
• The vulnerability of parenthood is universal—letting go is supposed to hurt.
• Sometimes the best podcast content comes from real, unscripted mess!

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“Keep them coming! These came from DMs, they came from comments… I just had a blast reading them.”
— Camilla (34:15)

“Next time, I’ll have my margarita.”
— Jessica (34:05)

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

I'm Jessica Capshaw.

[B]

And I'm Camilla Ludington. And welcome to another episode of We Ride at Dawnish.

[A]

Here we are. I think this is the first. This is the first time we're doing it right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Are we gonna get a little messy?

[B]

We're gonna get a little messy.

[A]

It's gonna get a little messy. I'm ready to get messy, you guys.

[B]

Welcome to We Ride at Dawnish.

[A]

This is the first time that we're gonna get messy on the record, messy on camera, messy. I'm not actually.

[B]

That's the sound. That's the me drinking my very first messy margarita, and I realized that you brought coffee, which was not the plan.

[A]

I know. I didn't understand the assignment.

[B]

Solo, everybody.

[A]

I didn't understand the assignment. I will. You know what? Fool me. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I will come prepared next time, because margaritas and a little messiness is what is required before we open up the mailbag. The first time.

[B]

I'm excited.

[A]

It's the first time. It's the first time we have a little interaction with the team. We have a little team meeting. A little team meeting with us and the them.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Whichever thems decided to take to their devices and send some questions, some thoughts. I have not read them. Have you? I wanted to.

[B]

No, I purposely did. I purposely did not read them, but because I felt like I don't want to. I want them to. I want listeners to have, like, our real reaction and instinct on answering these questions.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And I staved off my inner nerd and, you know, my inner need to be prepared for anything.

[B]

I'm actually shocked you didn't.

[A]

But don't worry, I brought my favorite pen so I can check off each one.

[B]

Oh, my God. I love that you didn't remember to bring a margarita, but your business glasses. Your fucking business glasses. And you're like, the pen needs to come.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Actually, this is a perfect. This is perfectly me and you.

[A]

This actually really is.

[B]

It really is.

[A]

It is. So let's do it. Let's do it. I'm looking at it. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go first. How about that?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. This one is from. We've got quite a. We've got a few. And I. Okay, so I'm gonna give everyone a famous last name. This is from Olivia Munn. It's not. It's not from Olivia Munn, but it's from Olivia. Okay. First of all, welcome back. I literally Had a minor crisis when the old pod went dark, but this rebrand is everything. The video on YouTube. Love. I need to know, how long were you guys secretly planning this behind our backs? It felt like you were holding onto these secrets for six months. Also, can we talk about the name? We read it. Dawnish. Who came up with it? I'm 100% an ish person because absolutely nothing happens before my iced coffee. Same girl? Same. Olivia? Same. Same girl.

[B]

Same.

[A]

Thank you. Because that's a great compliment. And I'm so excited that you like it. And the video on YouTube. We always wanted that, so we're excited to finally have it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And how long behind their backs? I feel like it wasn't quite six months, but it was up there.

[B]

It was in the new year.

[A]

Yes, it was in the new year. And it got us really excited. And in terms of the order of things, I mean, we found this incredible new home and had the opportunity to start thinking in a different way and. And thinking about the things that we really, really loved and that we wanted to carry with us. And some of the things that we were. That we thought, oh, well, you know, what, that we could maybe, you know, retool or make, you know, even better or maybe leave behind. So that was when we started really thinking about. I almost feel like the name also was something that was really important for us to come up with first because it really did sort of set the tone.

[B]

Yeah. We did feel like we were entering this new era. Like, we learned so much. The form. A lot of the format of the show came to us over messy margaritas or got solidified over our margarita night.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The name came before that, though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Um, because we were talking about, like, the rally cry that we feel with each other and all the things we. We're always reminiscing about what we've been through in life together.

[A]

And it's something that. That we say. I mean, I actually. I actually say this. I say it to my kids, I say it to you, and it sort of comes at the time. I always use it as the. The. It definitely is like a giddy up. The horse analogies go on and on, but it's like. It's when you. For me, the we ride at dawn is. Is when I'm actually sometimes even feeling perilously close to not riding.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That I have to remind myself that you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You could be tempted to not ride, but we. We need to ride.

[B]

We ride. Exactly.

[A]

No matter what.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And then the. Ish came because life is ish.

[B]

Yeah, Well, I mean, I think we have talked. So I listen, like, the real deal is that, like, everyone knows now. I mean, like, it. Everything that, like, I have this autoimmune disease that, like, notoriously makes you tired. Right. Like, notoriously makes you completely exhausted. And for me, the ish was like, my life absolutely lives in the ish physically, like, my rally cry lives on the ish.

[A]

And because it was conditional on how you were feeling.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, just, like, as a mom, like, honestly, it's. It's. It's. Yes.

[A]

And we would talk.

[B]

We have talked already about just subjects that have lived in the ish for us.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I don't know who came up with the name. I think. I can't really remember. It was a back and forth between us for a long time over. I mean, we were throwing out so many things, and then nothing was really landing in a way that felt authentic, I guess, to us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then this landed, and it was just instantly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're of one mind. We know when it's, like, the right fit.

[A]

Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. It felt right. And then we grabbed it.

[B]

Okay, next question. Maya.

[A]

Oh, listen,

[B]

not heard this one. Capdington, Captington, Captain.

[A]

I've heard Paddington.

[B]

I've heard. I've heard many. I have not heard Cappington say it

[A]

was an English accent.

[B]

Jessica, in the first episode, you mentioned that you used to be a super black and white thinker, but now you're leaning into the gray, the ish of life. What was a turning point for you where you realized you didn't have to be perfect all the time? As a recovering people pleaser myself, I need the wisdom. Was there a point? Was there, like, a moment for you?

[A]

Well, I think that it was. What's that saying where it's like the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like there's sort of this life reckoning, and I don't know that it comes with an age or a number, but there's this moment where I think when things aren't working, that if you keep doing the same thing to deal with it and it's not working, you go a little bonkers, you go a little insane. And I think insanity is not a bad thing on some level. I think you got to get a little messy to figure out how to get out of it. And so I feel like black and white thinking was not getting me closer to understanding or resolve it. Was sort of pinning me in a corner. Like, something had to be one thing or it had to be another, but it wasn't. And I.

[B]

This is the ish.

[A]

This is the ish. This is the ish. And so I think that. I think I found myself. It's also the idea. It's really funny. Luke is a passionate fisherman, and we were. I think I already talked about this maybe once, but we were going around the table talking about when we learn the most. And he was saying, I learn the most when I'm out fishing. I mean, he does, like sport fishing, not just, like, throw a line off of a bridge. He goes out and, like, really catches these giant tunas and stuff. And he said, I actually love when I'm not catching the most because it's when I'm learning, like, which bait to use, which reel to use, because it's. You know, you have to have. You have a whole, like, you know, again, he. He can come in on and talk about fishing, but hear him talk about it, and it's like, the concept was he appreciated that he was learning while learning more when he was failing, essentially. And so I think that there's these moments where when you're not doing well, when you're not figuring it out again, it's not black and white. You have to figure out a workaround. You have to figure out a way to see the nuance, to see the gray. And I think.

[B]

So you grow in the gray.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That sounds. Wow. Make that a T shirt. Yes, I think you do. Yeah.

[B]

Put it on a hat. I think you do.

[A]

Put it on a hat. I do. I think you grow in the gray. Well, if you put on a hat, it might be that you're growing your grays. Like I grow.

[B]

Well, I mean, yeah, for sure. That's also a possibility, but, yeah, I mean, let's.

[A]

I also was never. I wasn't trying to be per. This is a funny one. This one goes, I guess, a little deeper. I wasn't trying to be perfect all the time. So much as I thought that being right kept me safe. Like, that was how I was wired. Like, if I got it right, if I thought ahead, if I was prepared, I'd be safe. And so it wasn't as much my efforts to be perfect as it was to safeguard bad things from happening.

[B]

Yeah, I relate to that a lot. I think that's where my. A lot of my anxiety manifests.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, in. In the. You know, wanting to control. Right. Because it's about control.

[A]

Yeah. Sneaky that control and.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear that.

[A]

Yeah, I know. And it was. It was. It was funny. Cause it actually came to me in the form of that one time, which was that I heard someone talk about the difference between being right and getting it right. And it made a lot of sense to me because you can be right and live in the black and white. Like, you're. Like, you're statistically right, you got the measurement right, or you remembered the thing right, and you go to, like, prove that you got it right. You got it right. You were right. You were right, you were right. But you could make someone feel like shit on the other end while you're being right. But if you're concerned about the relationship, then you're gonna wanna get it right. And getting it right definitely lives far more in the ish and the gray. Because it's not always about the facts and the numbers and the, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Being right.

[B]

I love that answer.

[A]

So we've heard from Olivia Munn and Maya Rudolph, and now we're gonna hear from Hannah Montana.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Camilla. I am screaming at your Terry dubrow story at Mr. Chow's Real Talk as an actual OB resident. Ooh. When Terry told you that no one goes from being an attending general surgeon back to an OB resident in the real world, did you secretly start questioning Joe Wilson's entire life choices? Is Joe living a medical lie? Please tell me you texted the writers immediately to demand answers.

[B]

I honestly did think about texting our. Our writers if I had been on set, though. I don't think I'm gonna bug them in a hiatus and be like, I just met Terry Dubrow from Botched, and he's our Grey's Anatomy storylines. I'm gonna let them have their vacation. And then I will be asking that on set, in person, eye to eye. I. It's not that, like, it made me question her choices because the writers have, like, teed it up so well that I understand why she picked it. I think that it just didn't occur to me maybe how wild it was for her to make that change. And I think that's interesting. I. Because people do. People on our show do kind of change specialties, right? I mean, Ben Warren's gone from, like, you know, firefighter back to dot, you know, so we have this, like. We have this. We have this ish on our show where, like, you know, people are changing back and forth. So I. It just never occurred to me that maybe that was really a. A wild thing that she did. And honestly, I Wish I'd known because it would have maybe painted the. The story a little bit differently for me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, you have more information and. Yeah, I will be. Guys, I will be getting back to you with this, though, because I do want the answers on set. Boots on the ground. Grace Low Memorial, for sure.

[A]

And you'll get them.

[B]

You have access, because we have real doctors on set, so I can ask them these questions. Okay. From Jax. Oh. 911 Nashville. G. Spill the tea on 91 1, Nashville finale Jessica Blythe Hart going full, full psycho rage. Only Ann Rimes was the highlight of my TV year. You mentioned on the pod that you turtled on your back during the stunt because of your giant boss boots. Yeah. Please tell me there's video evidence of this. Did Leanne have to help you just lie there like an upside down tortoise while the crew eye rolled you? Now, it's just so. You know, my memory, Love telling this story is that you were turtling and then you. You sort of did like, some sort of, like, karate. Yeah. To be back in the moment, and that's why you were so pissed. I was.

[A]

I was so mad. I was so mad that I was on my back.

[B]

Is there footage? There would have been footage of it because clearly it made. Some of it made the show.

[A]

Yeah, there is. There is. There actually, there definitely is. And like, every day of our life on the show, we're trying to make our days. We have really ambitious days. And there's always, like, the let's go, let's go, let's go. So I think part of the. Also the fact that I was turtling, I was pissed because I was all. We were trying to, like, do so much in the day, and we were at the end of our season, and so nobody was laughing. Everybody was just trying to get back to business, which is probably why I have the level 11 rage on my entire face as I charge Leanne. And, no, she was not in the mood to help me up. She does go full psycho rage. Her entire thinking brain is offline, and she is just in I'm gonna kill you mode.

[B]

I'm glad they gave it to you because Blythe is so poised. Yeah. As a character, it's almost like to me, it's like she's. The claws are out, but she's not gonna. She's not gonna break a nail. And I liked it because it was like, you don't. She didn't give a fuck if she broke all the nails.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. She didn't no, she was, she was just. I mean, this happens in life, guys, so we have to just honor the moment.

[B]

Have you ever had a fight like that? I haven't. I mean, I saw like mom tell in the 90s, but like, casually. Guys, this happens, this happens.

[A]

Let's normalize the rage. No, you lose your shit is what happens.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Normally you, you know, you get your shit back and you don't go full throttle psycho rage on someone, but in this case, that wouldn't be entertaining. That wouldn't be a Thursday night finale. Right.

[B]

In Blythe's defense, though, she's been baiting you all season long.

[A]

All season long. And you know what? Blythe has done, I think a pretty good job of keeping her shit together and being super patient and super understanding. And this was just one step too far. Camilla. So she had to put on the. The black suit, the boss boots, and if a little turtling happened as a byproduct, then, yeah, so be it. She got back on the turtle. That really matters. And quite frankly, no one will know until September if, you know, if Dixie survives Blythe's rage.

[B]

You might have. Are you telling us, are you. Are you teasing that you might have murdered a main character at the end of the finale?

[A]

It wasn't me. It was Blythe.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I do personally, as a watcher of this show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I do hope that there is more rage to come because it made for a great tv.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, great. I love it.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, you know, it'll be. It'll be the hills and Valleys. It'll be, you know, she loses her. She gets back, she's gonna lose it again.

[B]

I'm sure.

[A]

No, she can't lose. I can definitely say that nothing will Same after this.

[B]

No. And it shouldn't be.

[A]

Situation. Yeah, there's some. There's some. There's some. There's some answers that need to be. Some questions that need to be answered. Answered. What? I just said answered. Questions that need to be answered. Okay, so from Khloe Kardashian, okay, it is so wild that Camilla basically hand delivered Sam Page to your showrunner, Jessica. That is ultimate bestie behavior. If you guys could effortless, effortlessly cross over, cast any other actors from your past projects into your current shows, who are you manifesting next? Oh, so many people.

[B]

Question.

[A]

So many people. I've gotten over so many people. I really.

[B]

Who was someone, like, from the past that you would bring, like, a different project?

[A]

Is that what the question. Past projects? Oh, I was gonna say, because being there for 10 years, there were so many people at Grey's that I got to know. And gosh, I loved that Hilary Burton. She was so. I mean.

[B]

I know. I know. Provocative character Hillary on 911 Nashville would be fan fucking tastic. Yeah, she was live in Nashville.

[A]

No, she's. No, I think she's in New York. Past projects. I left everyone I worked with on the practice. A couple of them actually came to Gray's. I did have a little teeny, tiny part in a movie called Minority Report. You think we could get Tom Cruise to come do a little 911 Nashville?

[B]

Are you kidding me? First off, they don't have the insurance for him because he. He would want to do his own stunts. No.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like there's no Disney stunt

[B]

double for him on Nashville.

[A]

I feel like if you could get Tom Cruise on 911 Nashville, they'd figure out how to come up with the insurance money.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Can you imagine?

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

But who would he. Let's manifest that. I don't know.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Okay. I love that. What are you doing that? I can't beat that.

[A]

How am I gonna follow? Well, I mean, I. I mean, I literally reached into the stratosphere. I, like, reached up to, you know, infinity and beyond and came up with the. The biggest movie star on, you know, one of the biggest.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I. I do have an Oscar winner. I worked with Anna Paquin on True Blood.

[A]

Oh. And I love Anna. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's great. She would be great. She would be a great fit for someone to come to Grace. Gosh, I don't even know if she'd be a great. Would you. Would you make her a doctor or a patient?

[B]

I think you'd have to make her a doctor.

[A]

Yeah, she's got. She's very. I'm.

[B]

I'm picking Anna Paquin.

[A]

Got authority.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay, Moving on.

[A]

Reach your hand into the messy mailbag. I'm. I'm in. I'm in.

[B]

I'm drinking my messy margarita. You gotta join me next time. It's pretty.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Fantastic. We need the wedding picture. Jessica mentioned you screenshot a photo from the shoot where you looked post nuptial. Hand in hand. It is romantic. Please make this the official messy mailbag cover art. Yeah, we haven't released it yet. Okay. After this, we're gonna release it. Also, Camilla, did you ever wash and return the underwear?

[A]

No. She borrowed from dancer$.

[B]

She kept those or are they officially part of my wardrobe now.

[A]

What did you do with my underwear?

[B]

They are so. Jess would not have taken those back, is what I have realized. And so. No, they are official. They're in rotation. They're in official rotation. And I will forever think of her every time I wear them.

[A]

They're good ones, too. I like that.

[B]

They are actually really good ones.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I like the seamless. You know, I gotta say, it's almost

[B]

like a mesh or something.

[A]

Well, they're like the. I don't know what. I don't know what the fabric is, but I don't like when your underwear cut in. No, but does anyone.

[B]

I guess underwear that cuts in anymore. Are you kidding? I got rid of that two years ago. Well, they do need the lumps and bumps.

[A]

No, I don't want lumps and bumps. No, I need the. I need that. I needed to just sit on my skin, not cut into my skin.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Like, I don't want underwear that are holding on for dear life. I would have to wear that. Just sit and. Nowhere to stay. Nowhere to stay.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I don't like it when my underwear feels like a hostage situation.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, no, no, no.

[B]

Like, they're just. They're on so tight. Like, you don't know. You get nervous.

[A]

You get very nervous. Speaking of, have you watched DTF St. Louis?

[B]

You've asked me this. I have not.

[A]

You have to watch it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You have to watch it again because there's a. There's a specific underwear scene, and I'm not gonna spill it. But truly, I mean, I'm not. I'm not getting anything for saying this. I do really think it's an incredible show, and I was really blown away by it. Okay, I will.

[B]

I will watch this in exchange for you finally watching an episode of Off Campus.

[A]

Oh, my God. Okay.

[B]

Oh, is Eve watching Off Campus?

[A]

No, but you know what? You're the third person who said this, and that's the tipping point. So someone brought it up yesterday to me, and I can't remember who it was, but they brought it. Yes, I know now. Someone brought it up, and I'm gonna watch it. Okay, I'll pull. Yeah. I'll ask Eve if she has. She probably is. And doesn't. I don't know about it. Yeah, she has, like, what she watches on a screen. The kids have what they watch on a screen. It's a new sneaky sneak. And I see you, teenagers. I see you. And now I understand. Well, if they think that it's Like a little scandi, a little provocative. They don't watch it on the screens and leave a record of it on your screen log or whatever. They go to their computers and they watch it on their computers.

[B]

Oh yeah, that computer is.

[A]

Yeah, that's how a little he's steam

[B]

rivalry in those laptops.

[A]

Well, he's a rivalry and euphoria sneaks in like that.

[B]

Oh, I'm like euphoria this season, I gotta tell you. Oh, man. So dark. So dark.

[A]

I don't, I can't do the darkness.

[B]

I can't do the darkness either.

[A]

Okay, so from Rachel. Oh, I can't come up with a famous last name from Rachel Zoe. The nice versus kind debate completely melted my brain. Niceness looks comfortable, but kindness takes courage. Wow. Oh, she has a scenario. I have a scenario for you all. My best friend asked me to be a bridesmaid in her destination wedding next year. It's going to cost thousands of dollars.

[B]

You literally used bridesmaid. What did I tell you?

[A]

Isn't it funny that we find ourselves about this? Well, because it's high stakes and very relational. I don't really know the other girls and the thought of a four day bachelorette trip gives me a literal panic attack. Same girl. Same. The nice version of me wants to say yes and just cry in secret, but the kind version of me knows that I should say no. How do I give the kind answer without ruining the friendship? Help.

[B]

Well, part of her crush, part of her thing is it's going to cost thousands of dollars. And I think when there's. Listen, I think you use money when there's money involved like that. I think it's an easy out. Yeah, right. But I, I think that's hard when you don't know. We literally had this like as a, we use this as an example to each other a little bit. I mean, I think that it's totally fine to say no.

[A]

Yeah, I do. And I think that it seems really hard. I've been in situations very similar to this. I think it seems really hard and I really see your struggle. So I see you. I see you, Rachel. But I do think that you should follow your instinct and maybe even, hey, maybe this whole nice versus kind illumination can serve as a little bit of a guideline, like a guiding. Like a rope thrown out to you to lean on. Right. You can know that you're doing the right thing because you're being kind and you're saying I love. I think it always starts. I think that being kind also does. I think you Need a little foreplay or a little warm up to saying something that's kind because you know you're gonna disappoint someone and I think it's probably a good thing to front load it with if it's true. I love you. I really wanna be there for you. I cannot be your bridesmaid because it's going to cost thousands of dollars that I don't have or that I don't have allocated to that. Whatever you want to say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And I. And I don't, you know, I don't know, fill in the blank from there with what's true and then always say what's true because you can keep track of it. You can't keep track of.

[B]

I also think that, like, you can. Yeah, I think that you can like pad. Pad the corners a little bit. Right. Because I think even if money wasn't involved or it was obvious you could afford something like this. You can say I love you so much that I. I know I'm gonna feel like this deeply uncomfortable and I don't want to bring any of that energy or however you want to put it to your bachelor. I know it's so important. So maybe me and you can do something different. I would love to, like, take you to dinner or whatever it is. Like, I think that you just come at it with love.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. From Taylor. I need advice on the ppp, the triple personality package. Tears. I definitely used to give out my full premium package on first dates because I wanted to be totally open, but I kept getting burned by guys who didn't earn it. Oh, okay. Camilla, you said that you were the queen of aloof back in the day. I'll reels them in and tosses them back out. How do I tap into my inner James Dean aloof energy without looking completely standoffish? Teach me your ways. This is complicated for me because I did say on the podcast that, like, there's a part of me that feels like you offer up the PPP on the first date as like the sneak peek. Right. To see a. If it's a good match for you. I. I don't. I. I think it's. I think if you're feeling burned by guys who didn't earn it, maybe you're divulging too much. I feel like there's a version of giving your triple P and it's not.

[A]

Yeah. It shouldn't come at a cost.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think the aloof can come. Oh, my God. I actually hate that. I'm saying this because I don't even know if I agree with it, but I, I feel like the aloof can come after, you know, And I hate playing games. I really hate playing games. But like, I think the aloof is like, you don't have to text them 10 minutes right after the date to tell them. You don't have to be the first one to be like, oh my God, last night was amazing. But I don't even know if I agree with my own advice because, like, I'm so sick of hearing about the games that people play with, like my friends who are out there dating. Like, I don't want that for them.

[A]

Yeah. Well, okay, here's the thing. Two things can be true, right. You can not be playing a game, but you can keep strategy in mind.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. Like you're not, it's not, it's not manipulative, it's strategic. And I think the two get confused sometimes. It's like you're, you have a. I mean, by the way, a strategy is a plan, right? You have a plan for what you feel comfortable giving of yourself when you first get to know someone. And so I think that what I'm hearing you say is like, you, you give what you know isn't gonna come at a cost to you later. That won't make you feel like you get burned if that person.

[B]

Yes. But you're still yourself.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

You're not wanting like a different version. You're not holding back so much that like that person really can't get a sense of you. Because it is going to be important. Listen, if they don't want a second date and they've gotten a sense of you, then they don't. It's not a match.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. And also just. Oh, it's. I, Well, I, I don't know if it's hard for everyone. I think sometimes you can get carried away in the. Yes of it all. Like when you're excited and you're in a new situation, you can be like all of a sudden find yourself. When they say, I love hiking. Being like, I love hiking. Maybe you don't. Hiking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then all of a sudden you get asked on a, you know, on a second date and it's hiking, 20 mile hike, date two mistake for me to say that.

[B]

Yes. I think exactly right. I think the aloof or the strategicness can come in the. After the date.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think that you just like take a pause, let it breathe a little bit, don't seem too eager. But of course you can say that you had a great time if you had a great time, but I just think that like, you just. That's. That's where you can sort of bring in the aloof. But it's more strategy. I agree with you. More strategy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

Okay, last question. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so this is from Becca. Jessica, my oldest, is graduating high school next year. And your conversation about raising them just to watch them leave completely broke me.

[B]

I really hated you saying that. I know, but I really hated it.

[A]

How are you coping with the pre college sadness? Are you drowning your feelings in hotel minibar gummies or do you have a survival guide for us moms who aren't ready to let go? Well, I'm not. I'm not there yet, so I. I can't, you know, I don't.

[B]

Living in denial.

[A]

No, I feel very much aware. I think it hasn't hit me. I mean, I think I already know. I cry easily. I get so emotional about these kids and I, you know, I can see. I was with one of my best friends. I went to go see her and my goddaughter for the college drop off and you can't get around it. It's just going to be sad. So I think I'm sort of knowing that it's just going to be sad. I think it's like it's one of the things that's, you know, the best advice you can give yourself is the only way out is through. You got to just know you're going to be sad. I mean, listen, you haven't. You're not doing your job if it's not sad. You're not living and loving. Holy. If you're not sad, it is sad. It's also happy and exciting. And, you know, there's this time where, you know, I didn't do it. I think at the appropriate time in my adolescence because I was in, you know, I had a single mom and I think that we were kind of a team for longer than maybe you might normally be in your adolescence where, you know, you normally start to see yourself as different than your parents so that you can go out into the world and be you. We were. My mom and I were more of a unit for a longer amount of time. So that kind of came for me later. But I see, you know, Luke and I see Eve not get completely poppy and certainly not Josie, but I see them trying on new things, right? Like how you're. They're gonna not be like me. And I don't take it as a insult it's absolutely appropriate. So Luke going off to college is absolutely appropriate. I would want nothing else for him. I'm so excited for him. And I'm gonna cry a river of tears. And I also know that it'll be that thing. I love that thing. I'm such a visual person. We know this about me. But I love. I saw a. I'm sure it was Instagram, but there was a picture of a representation of maybe it was like four balls, and they went in descending order of size. So, like, there was one giant one, and then it got smaller and smaller and smaller. And underneath the giant one, it was like, how. How it feels right now. And then the smaller one was how it will feel in a week. And the second and then the third one was how it'll feel in a month. And it. I think that's really true. So I just sort of. I'm trying to acknowledge that the feelings are huge right now, but that with more and more time and more and more independence and, you know, all that, that it'll just get smaller and then he'll be a college man.

[B]

My plan is to give Hayden like a. Like a five mile radius of where she can apply to, and that's the zone. That's how far you're allowed to fly.

[A]

Well, it goes back to the Nate Bargazzi joke. It's the whole, like, you can go to community college because people think you're going to stay in the community.

[B]

He's so funny. I love him so.

[A]

I love that we.

[B]

We.

[A]

We didn't know that the other one loves him as much as we do. We both love Nate Bargazzi.

[B]

I love him.

[A]

He makes me laugh.

[B]

Watched that. I've watched that special, like, three times.

[A]

Oh, my God. And no one can say his jokes the way he does because he's just. Wait.

[B]

I do, like, I do kind of want him on the pod now that we've said that. He would be amazing. He would be.

[A]

I think I might bitten. I might be a little nervous, though. He might make me nervous.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

[A]

I feel a little intimidated.

[B]

Yay. Our first messy mail bag.

[A]

I love it. I love these questions. Everyone, hold on. Let me use my favorite pen to check off all the. All the. All the people.

[B]

I'm gonna actually check them off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm taking a little slide.

[A]

I should have checked it off as it came along.

[B]

All right, Keep them coming. We love them. This was so fun.

[A]

Next time, Justin. Next time I'll have my margarita.

[B]

I'll be better prepared coffee.

[A]

I know I have more of a day ahead of me.

[B]

Yeah. Keep them coming. These came from DMs, they came from comments. And we have. We. I just had a blast reading them. I love that they're about, like, our previous episodes because people need an update.

[A]

I know. And I loved reading. I mean, you know, we, these, these got picked, but I, there were so many others that were so funny and made me laugh out loud. And also just for, you know, observations and all that. And I loved them.

[B]

Yeah. We have the best listeners.

[A]

The best.

[B]

All right. Thank you. I love the team. I love the team. We're excited to do this with you guys again.