← Call Me Back - with Dan Senor
Call Me Back - with Dan Senor
Bonus Episode: A Pivotal Mayoral Race for NYC’s Jews - with Howard Wolfson
00:37:37
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- [00:00]
Dan Senor
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Howard Wolfson
You are listening to an art media podcast. This race is going to come down to two people, Zaran Mandami and Andrew Cuomo. We may wish that there were a better set of choices. There aren't. And Andrew Cuomo, in my view, as flawed as he may be, is an absolutely better choice than somebody who wants to defund the police, wants to raise taxes, wants to spend lots of money that we don't have, and is an extreme, in my view, opponent of the state of Israel. So those are the choices and nobody should be under any illusions about that when they go to vote. If you are a registered Democrat and what you have heard today concerns you or you really care about the future of New York, do not sit this out. Foreign.
- [01:04]
Dan Senor
It's 1:15 on Friday, June 20th here in New York City. It is 8:15pm on Friday, June 20th in Israel as Israelis have wound down for the day after what has been a very intense week and are have already started their Shabbat. Hopefully it will be a quiet Shabbat and not one spent in safe rooms and and bomb shelters for members of the Jewish community who live here in New York City. There are two major news stories that are front of mind. There is of course Israel's war with Iran, which we are covering extensively here at Call me back. And then there is the New York City Democratic primary for mayor which will take place this Tuesday, June 24th. And I should say that this mayoral election is actually capturing the attention not only of city residents here, but also the Jewish community nationally and throughout the diaspora. And it's even and even with the war been getting extensive coverage in the Israeli media. Why? Well, this year's New York City mayoral election is of particular consequence because of the candidate that is currently polling second place in the race and that is 33 year old Zoran Mamdani. The candidate leading in the polls is former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. In many ways, Mamdani and Cuomo represent the opposite ends of the Democratic Party spectrum. Cuomo has historically represented the more establishment centrist Democratic Party, whereas Mamdani is definitely an outsider, a self described socialist who's been endorsed by the squad, the progressive squad for his far left agenda, which includes a promise to freeze rents and eliminate bus fares, just to name a few of his policy prescriptions. Mamdani's position in the polls is worrying to many Jewish New Yorkers because of his positions on anti Semitism in Israel. In college Mamdani co founded Students for Justice in Palestine. Now while he claims to be concerned about Rising anti Semitism. He defends the phrase globalize the Intifada. When asked about his position on Israel two weeks ago, Mamdani said that as mayor, he would bring New York City back into compliance with international law. That's an interesting way to address the issue of Israel. And the suggestion was that the city's administration's support for Israel has been illegal. And again, while this is essentially a two candidate race between Cuomo and Madani, Mamdani has been gaining momentum, has been moving in the polls. Turnout so far in this mayoral election on early voting is high. So there is a sense that he is capturing a lot of energy among progressives, primarily young progressives, that are fueling what could be a potential upset by Mamdani. With us to discuss this highly consequential election is Howard Wolfson, who's sort of a go to for me when it comes to Democratic politics in the city and nationally. He leads the education program at Bloomberg Philanthropies, the foundation of former Mayor Mike Bloomberg. Previously, Howard served as the deputy mayor for government affairs and communications for New York City under Mike Bloomberg. He's a longtime advisor and confidant of Mayor Bloomberg's. He's also worked for Senator Schumer and former Senator Clinton and Congresswoman Nita Lowy going way back. So he's got a lot of deep roots in New York City politics. Howard also currently runs Bloomberg Super PAC and continues to advise Bloomberg on all matters of politics and communications. Howard Wolfson on an imminent election with outsized consequences. This is Call me back. And I'm pleased to welcome back to this podcast Howard Wolfson. Howard, thanks for being here.
- [05:02]
Howard Wolfson
Good to join you.
- [05:03]
Dan Senor
So, Howard, there's this thing happening on Tuesday.
- [05:07]
Howard Wolfson
Yes, there is.
- [05:09]
Dan Senor
I understand there's this thing called perhaps the most pivotal stage of the most pivotal race in American politics.
- [05:18]
Howard Wolfson
Yes, the greatest city in the world is going to be choosing its next leader for the next four years.
- [05:23]
Dan Senor
Right, Right. That not enough people, as far as I'm concerned, are paying attention to and they should be paying attention to it. So, Howard, there's this race, there's this election on Tuesday. Before we get into the personalities, can you just briefly explain what is this contest on Tuesday and how does it factor into the city's politics?
- [05:43]
Howard Wolfson
So Tuesday is the Democratic primary for mayor in New York. New York City is an overwhelmingly Democratic city, so it is likely that whoever wins the primary will be the next mayor, although we of course will also have an election in November where we will have a Republican and potentially other candidates. On the ballot. But Tuesday really matters an awful lot. Typically, whoever wins the Democratic primary becomes mayor.
- [06:05]
Dan Senor
Yeah. Depending on whether or not you think it's a feature or a bug. There's this distinctive way New York City chooses its mayor now, which is something we call ranked choice voting. I'm going to do my best to explain it in a very simple way. Maybe we'll include in the show notes one or two pieces for people to read who want to spend more time going through the brain stimulation of trying to understand it. But basically, when you vote on election night, you are choosing your first choice for mayor, the candidate that you rank first, but then you also rank your second choice, your third choice, up to five. Up to five. So there's a way that even if I'm a candidate who didn't get ranked first by some voters, I still, in later rounds of counting, could gain vote share by the Board of Elections. So there's opportunities for candidates who don't appear to have done as well or well enough on election night within a few days. Once those second and third and fourth choices are counted, they can accumulate more vote share.
- [07:06]
Howard Wolfson
So a couple of things in defense of New York. We are not the only place that does ranked choice voting. There are other cities and even other states that do it. Maine does it. Alaska does it. San Francisco does it. There are other places that do it. It basically allows people to go in and rank one through five, their first choice, their second choice, third choice, fourth, fifth choice. They don't have to. You can choose to rank one, or you can choose to rank two, three, four, or five. Up to five. Let's say, for instance, I'll give you my ballot. So the person that I rank number one, Whitney Tilson, I ranked him number one because I thought he was best on the subject of education, which is the subject that I spend a lot of time on for former Mayor Bloomberg, at the Bloomberg Philanthropies, I ranked him number one. He is unlikely to win or even to get many votes once he is eliminated in the counting. Like, once he is, once it's clear.
- [07:54]
Dan Senor
That he can't win.
- [07:55]
Howard Wolfson
Correct. Then they will look at my ballot and we'll say, okay, we're going to strike Whitney Tilson and we'll go to his number two. And my number two was Andrew Cuomo. So if Andrew Cuomo is in the final round of the counting, the final.
- [08:10]
Dan Senor
Round based on the people's first choice.
- [08:12]
Howard Wolfson
Correct.
- [08:13]
Dan Senor
So assuming he is, then they take your number two and do what with.
- [08:16]
Howard Wolfson
It and attach it to Other people's number one.
- [08:19]
Dan Senor
Got it.
- [08:19]
Howard Wolfson
And eventually you winnow out the field. Whoever is the lowest vote getter winnows out the people who put that person one. Their votes then go to who they put number two or who they put number three. And in the end, you will have two people left basically competing against one another. And so the way to think about this, we can get into the personalities is. And the way I thought about it is I've looked at the polling. I have a sense of who are going to be the final two candidates competing against one another. And it matters an awful lot about between those two, which one you decide to rank.
- [08:54]
Dan Senor
Okay, so. And we will get to the personality. So that's the complexity of the New York City election. And yet it is a very high stakes election. To your point, the winner of this primary has a very good shot at becoming the mayor in the November election. And then I want to ask you why the mayor of New York City matters so much. I mean, Larry Summers tweeted out today, every American he says is a citizen of New York City. Summers wrote, it's so much a cultural and financial hub of our country that what happens in New York City is consequential for all of us. So before we get to. Because I do want to spend some time about what it means for the Jewish community in New York City and why Jewish communal life and its intersection section with New York City politics is its own sort of distinctive feature of politics here in America. But just the idea of New York City, like what Summers is saying, that the mayor of New York City really matters. So explain why it matters more than what we think of, of a mayor. Not to be judgmental or look down upon mayors of other cities, but there is something about the mayor of New York City.
- [09:56]
Howard Wolfson
So New York City is the biggest city in America. It's the media capital, it's the financial capital, it's the cultural capital. The mayor of New York has an enormous canvas, has an enormous stage. Whatever happens in New York reverberates outwards very dramatically. So it really does matter who the mayor of New York is. Secondly, I think also for the Democratic Party, it matters an awful lot who the mayor of New York is. If, for instance, Assemblymember Zoran Mandami becomes the mayor, he is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. He is very far left. He would make an argument that he has a stake in the future of the party, that his prevailing views on subjects like the economy, on criminal justice, on crime and on Israel should count. And prevail over more moderate or mainstream perspectives. So he or whoever becomes the mayor will be given an enormous platform and an enormous canvas to have enormous impact, not just on the party, but also on the country.
- [10:57]
Dan Senor
So that's the sort of the symbolism and the weight of leading City hall in New York City. And then there's also the operational part of the job, which is being mayor of New York City is like being the president or prime minister of a country. The budget of the city. You know this firsthand, as I mentioned the introduction, because you were a deputy mayor and Mayor Bloomberg's administration, so you actually lived this. But the budget of New York City, the city budget's over $100 billion. The police force is what, something like 60,000?
- [11:22]
Howard Wolfson
It's not quite that high, but it's tens of thousands. Yeah, it's more like 30 some odd thousand.
- [11:26]
Dan Senor
Okay, so the police force is tens of thousands of law enforcement personnel. I mean, you go through, like, just basically every city department, and it is these massive workforces.
- [11:36]
Howard Wolfson
We have 300,000 employees.
- [11:39]
Dan Senor
The city government of New York has 300,000 employees. Okay, so there you go. So it's also a big operational job.
- [11:47]
Howard Wolfson
Yes.
- [11:47]
Dan Senor
Right. So now let's talk about our candidates. Okay. Because it's got national implications, as you're saying, especially for the Democrats, and it is a really big job. You're running a country. So can you just go through each of the candidates? And you mentioned Whitney Tilson. So now let's go to your second choice, Andrew Cuomo, and just tell us a little about him, and then we'll kind of tick through a couple of the others.
- [12:11]
Howard Wolfson
So Andrew Cuomo was. He is the son of the former Governor, Mario Cuomo. He was the HUD secretary under Bill Clinton. He was Attorney General of the State of New York, and he was elected to three terms as governor. He left the Governor's Mansion in Albany under a cloud. He resigned following allegations of sexual misconduct. And the New York City mayor's race is something of a comeback opportunity for him. He started out the race as a front runner, but he has very high negatives. So there was an opening, I think, for at least one other candidate and I think possibly other candidates to present themselves as credible alternatives to him. He has a record of accomplishment. If you've flown in and out of LaGuardia, if you've taken a train out of Moynihan Station, if you've been on the Second Avenue subway, you can see that when he puts his mind to something, he can get things done as he Says there was a lot of talk about fixing those things. Nobody ever did anything. He accomplished it. He also, I think, is a real master understanding of politics and the way legislation is crafted and past. I mean, it's almost sort of lbj, like, in its uses of the levers of. Use of the levers of power and its sophisticated understanding of kind of how to corral votes and move things along in the process. But there is no question that there are a lot of New Yorkers that would otherwise be interested in voting for somebody with that kind of record who have questions about him because of the way he left office and the allegations that were charged against him.
- [13:43]
Dan Senor
And on the ideological spectrum of the Democratic Party, where would you put them?
- [13:47]
Howard Wolfson
Mainstream.
- [13:48]
Dan Senor
Okay, so mainstream, like. Like Clinton era Democrat?
- [13:52]
Howard Wolfson
Well, the party has moved since Clinton. I think he began his tenure as governor a little bit more to the center. I think, like a lot of Democrats, he moved somewhat to the left by his third term, but I think he is. He's a mainstream figure. He would govern the city in a fairly mainstream way. He's pledged to put more cops on the beat and to enforce some of the quality of life crimes that I think have been allowed to kind of fester. And I think there's every reason to believe that he would govern more or less from the center.
- [14:24]
Dan Senor
Okay, Zoran Mandani, who you mentioned earlier, State assemblyman, Tell us about him.
- [14:30]
Howard Wolfson
So he's a young man, he's in his 30s, only served a few terms in the state assembly. He is first and foremost an incredibly gifted politician. Whether he wins this race or loses this race, he has a bright future. Whether you agree or disagree with him on the substance, he is definitely going places in American politics. He's intelligent, he's charismatic, he is articulate, and he comes across very convincingly to an awful lot of people. That said, if you look at the substance, he is an unabashed member of the Democratic Socialists of America.
- [15:06]
Dan Senor
So hold on, that's not just a moniker. The Democratic Socialists of America isn't.
- [15:09]
Howard Wolfson
That's not a euphemism. That's an actual organization.
- [15:12]
Dan Senor
Yeah. So can you actually explain that? Because a lot of people don't know that such an organization. What is the Democratic Socialists of America?
- [15:17]
Howard Wolfson
So there is an organization in America called the Democratic Socialists of America. They have, I think, strength in certain cities now across the country, and they are socialists. I mean, they basically believe in redistribution of wealth at significant scale. They have been, as he has been, in favor of the defund the police movement in New York City. He wants to raise taxes. He has been, as I say, for the defund the police movement. He wants to spend billions of dollars on social programs and public housing. Money that I think you could argue that New York City really doesn't have.
- [15:55]
Dan Senor
But also he's talking about like free bus fare. No one should have to pay to be on a bus.
- [15:59]
Howard Wolfson
So he wants to make buses free and he wants to have state run supermarkets or city run supermarkets.
- [16:05]
Dan Senor
Right.
- [16:05]
Howard Wolfson
Government run supermarkets. Yeah, he's a real socialist.
- [16:08]
Dan Senor
Like maybe the best thing we could say about him is he really believes this is not political opportunism.
- [16:12]
Howard Wolfson
He's totally sincere.
- [16:14]
Dan Senor
Right. He's a real ideologue.
- [16:16]
Howard Wolfson
He is a true believer. And, you know, so look, sometimes I've been in Democratic politics a long time. The word socialist or Marxist is thrown around an awful lot. Republicans will accuse, you know, even the most mainstream Democrats of being a socialist or a Marxist. He is a legitimate socialist. He. He would call himself that.
- [16:32]
Dan Senor
Right. And as you said, very young. How old is he?
- [16:36]
Howard Wolfson
33, five, something like that.
- [16:38]
Dan Senor
So a 33 year old, new to politics and self described, owns the socialism, you know, label. And what was his background before he was in politics?
- [16:49]
Howard Wolfson
Well, he's 33, so he doesn't have much of a background. Before politics he was a rapper, I think, briefly.
- [16:56]
Dan Senor
Right.
- [16:56]
Howard Wolfson
But he's basically been, you know, essentially either running campaigns or an elected office since he graduated college.
- [17:03]
Dan Senor
Right, okay. And he's definitely caught fire 100%.
- [17:07]
Howard Wolfson
Well, that is the strength, I think. First of all, it's a strength of his. It's due to a couple of factors. As I said, he's very charismatic, he's a gifted politician. He's very articulate, he's great on social media. He understands how social media works. That's one bucket. Second bucket. He is articulating in his socialism a set of policies that certainly at least have a significant minority of Democratic voters interested in them. Right. So I don't believe that the majority of Democratic voters in New York are socialists or interested in socialism or approving of it, but there are certainly many voters who are. Right. So when you combine the voters who like the idea of spending billions of dollars on public housing and social programs, who like the idea of free buses, who like the idea of government run supermarkets, who like the idea of taxing the rich, and you combine that voting bloc with the people who are attracted to his charisma and his energy and his ways in which he uses social media, all of a sudden you have a decent number of people who are interested in him. One final thing I would say is that I think that the field is weak. So if Andrew Cuomo's negatives were lower, if he hadn't left the Governor's mansion with all these allegations hanging over his head, if one of the other candidates in the race had caught fire, that would have changed the trajectory of the race. But the fact is that Andrew Cuomo does have high negatives. None of the other candidates have caught fire. So he's running in a field that is not very strong. So he's good. He's got some policies that people are interested in and the rest of the field is weak.
- [18:41]
Dan Senor
But the reason we are interested in it here at the Call Me Back podcast, especially not only because we care about the future of the city and we have a lot of listeners who care about the future of the city. But he has made other, by design or as a result of his track record, the issue of Israel a cornerstone, part of what he's known for in ways that I think should make a lot of people uncomfortable. Just in the last few days, he was giving an interview on the Balwerk podcast where he talked about, he compared the term globalized intifada to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. In fact, let's play a clip from that interview.
- [19:20]
C
There obviously is anti Semitism on the right, but there's anti Semitism coming from the left and coming from these protests. And one example I think of is this phrase phrase globalize the intifada. So I wonder what you think about that, about the phrase globalize intifada and what we've seen as some anti Semitism coming from the left wing protesters.
- [19:37]
D
The first thing, as you were saying is anti Semitism is a real issue in our city and it's one that can be captured in statistics, the ones that you're citing. It's also one that you will feel in conversations you have with Jewish New Yorkers across the city. This is something that has to be the focus of the next mayoral administration, is not just talking about it, but tackling it. And these are the conversations that, that have informed our commitment around increasing funding for anti hate crime programming by 800% in our department of Community Safety. You know, to the question of language that's being used, I am someone who am less comfortable with the idea of banning the use of certain words and that I think it is more evocative of a Trump style approach to how to lead a country.
- [20:24]
Howard Wolfson
Sure.
- [20:24]
C
But like, does that just make you uncomfortable? Like the phrase globalize intifada from the river to the sea. Does that make you uncomfortable?
- [20:30]
D
I know people for whom those things mean very different things to me. Ultimately, what I hear in so many is a desperate desire for equality and equal rights in standing up for Palestinian human rights. And I think what's difficult also is that the very word is has been used by the Holocaust Museum when translating the Warsaw Ghetto uprising into Arabic because it's a word that means struggle. Muslim man who grew up post 9 11. I'm all too familiar in the way in which Arabic words can be twisted, can be distorted, can be used to justify any kind of meaning. And I think that's where it leaves me with a sense that what we need to do is focus on keeping Jewish New Yorkers safe. And the question of permissibility of language is something that I haven't ventured into.
- [21:14]
Dan Senor
Okay, so that was Mandani with Tim Miller on the Bulwark podcast when he was in college. He was one of the leaders of the Students for Justice in Palestine chapter. He talks openly about his support for bds. He says that if he for boycott, divestment and sanctions of Israel. He says that if Prime Minister Netanyahu were to travel here while he was mayor, he would have the Prime Minister arrested in accordance with the ICC action against the International Criminal Court, action against Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Galat. I can go on and on and on, but I don't think it's an overstatement to say that if you have been unnerved by some of the heated and at times anti Semitic, blatant anti Semitic rhetoric directed at Jews in this country, in this city, since October 7th. I mean, he's been swimming in those waters.
- [22:08]
Howard Wolfson
Not just swimming in them. I mean, he's been leading folks into the pool. I mean, he is a sincere, passionate, committed, anti Zionist. This was a guy who started a Students for justice in Palestine chapter when he was in college. And he has never given up his commitment to those issues. He calls, as you said, Israel an apartheid state. He believes in the Da'veest movement. I mean, you know, he's on a podcast and he says that globalizing the intifada isn't anti Semitic. This is somebody who is since. Let's give him the benefit of sincerity because I think it is a real flow through in his career so far. He is a very sincere opponent of the State of Israel, period.
- [22:52]
Dan Senor
And it's striking to me if that kind of candidate were to appear in other parts of the country. But New York City is home to the largest Jewish community in a single place outside of the state of Israel. So the idea that he could be getting this much traction, and as you said, by Tuesday, he could be on path to being the mayor of New York City is jarring. And you've been in the middle of a lot of going back to your days working for Congresswoman Nita Lowey and then working for then Senator Clinton when she ran before she was senator, but helping her get elected senator. And obviously, you've worked with Mayor Bloomberg. I mean, you know, the role that, you know, how sensitive, let me say, candidates for mayor are in this city to the Jewish community and the concerns of the Jewish community. And he is like such an outlier in terms of, like, I mean, what he's demonstrating. If he continues to get traction, he, I think, will have demonstrated that, you know, sort of giving lie to the idea that you can't run for mayor of New York City and not be completely dialed in to the concerns of the Jewish community here.
- [23:53]
Howard Wolfson
Well, he is historically an outlier, but he's clearly not an outlier contemporaneously now. He has not made on the campaign stump the subject of Israel. He has not made it a focus. He hasn't walked away from it. Clearly, as you saw, as you showed, when he's asked about it, he doubles down, but it's not as if he's advertising on it. So I think that there are some people who would find that position to be at odds with their own, but who might agree with him on other topics, who are able to kind of look past it, because it's not like something he talks about all the time. But you're 100% right. I mean, this is somebody who historically is an outlier on these issues, but contemporaneously is not. And it is certainly worth those of us who are Zionists, who believe in the state of Israel, who think it's important for American politicians to support a strong Israel, to ask ourselves how this has happened and why it has happened, because I worry that this is perhaps the beginning of a trend and not the end of one, regardless of the outcome.
- [24:56]
Dan Senor
And I take your point that he's not leading into it during this race, obviously, but he's not shying away from it. He was on a podcast the other day with this guy, Hassan Piker, who's a streamer. He just sat for an interview with him, who's a Streamer, who's justified. October 7th. And I think Mandami has used language that sort of has rationalized what happened on October 7th. And I guess my question, Howard, is, well, first of all, we talked about the DSA and the policies that DSA stands for on issues of Israel as well. They are as extreme.
- [25:25]
Howard Wolfson
Very extreme. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, by the way, I mean, you know, the DSA of Bernie Sanders Youth was not anti Israel. Right. The organization has moved and has changed its position about Israel over time, and that's just a fact. And the Young Democrats, democrats in their 20s and 30s, you can see it in the polling, are not hugely supportive of Israel. And it is a challenge for those of us in the party who do feel strongly about this to persuade and to bring folks back into the fold.
- [25:56]
Dan Senor
And operationally coming back to the operations. There was a rabbi over at our home for Shabbat dinner recently who made the point, like, you know, the NYPD is in front of our synagogue. This rabbi said on Friday nights and Saturday mornings, especially since post October 7th, I mean, there are lots of synagogues at Jewish day schools where the NYPD kind of hovers around. Rightly so. And this rabbi was asking, will that be the case of Mandani's mayor? Like, what kind? Now, you know, you can start speculating with all these. You can get very micro and very parochial. But for Jewish leaders who are paying attention, having a mayor who's hostile, or let me just say this, who is like, I don't think he had a problem with the protests that were happening at Columbia University.
- [26:36]
Howard Wolfson
No.
- [26:36]
Dan Senor
Right.
- [26:37]
Howard Wolfson
No.
- [26:37]
Dan Senor
Right. So you just start to think about, what does that mean if you have a mayor who just doesn't seem to care about the concerns? Again, especially, we saw the uptick in anti Semitism before October 7th, but obviously we saw a massive uptick post October 7th. And it's destabilizing for many Jews in terms of just their daily lives, where they have to start thinking about things and be conscious of things as they go about their daily life, particularly if they are publicly, very publicly affiliate, identify with their Judaism, is very obvious that they feel vulnerable. And then to feel like you have a mayor in New York City who doesn't have your back, I mean, that's pretty terrifying.
- [27:15]
Howard Wolfson
And he gives total and complete permission to Democratic candidates across the country to walk away from their support for Israel. Right. I mean, you can imagine all kinds of Democratic candidates running for all kinds of offices, basically saying, if this guy can win in New York City, if an avowed anti Zionist can become mayor of a city with the largest Jewish population in the United States, we can certainly oppose Israel in our race. Because guarantee in every other place, there are even fewer Jewish voters. So I am worried, particularly as a Democrat, what this would mean for the Democratic Party, because I think it could change the trajectory of this issue in a way that is very disadvantageous to those of us who support a strong US Israel relationship.
- [28:08]
Dan Senor
And there are a number of candidates in this race. We don't have to go through all of them. But I just want to tick off a couple of others because they're increasingly in the news. Brad Lander.
- [28:15]
Howard Wolfson
So Brad is trying to sort of run to the left of Andrew Cuomo and slightly to the right of Mandami without really all that much success. I think there was a point at which he might have been the alternative to both of them. Hasn't really turned out that way. And I think although he has gotten some favorable publicity in the New York Times, the New York Times editorialized this past week and said, we don't love Cuomo at all. We really dislike Mondami. And we think you ought to think about Brad Lander. He is not, I think, likely to be the next mayor. I don't think he's even likely to be one of the final two vote.
- [28:50]
Dan Senor
Getters, but he's helping Mandani.
- [28:52]
Howard Wolfson
Well, so because of the ranked choice system, sometimes candidates cross endorse. So a candidate will say, hey, to my supporters, if you're going to put Howard Wilson first, put Dan Senor second. And you'll say, hey, to my supporters, if you're going to put Dan Senor first, you should put Howard Wolfson second. And he and Mondame did that. So I think that has helped Mondame. I'm not sure it has helped Brad Lander very much, but it has certainly helped Mondame.
- [29:16]
Dan Senor
And Adrian Adams, mainstream city council speaker.
- [29:20]
Howard Wolfson
I think she has some accomplishments certainly around rezoning, trying to make the city more affordable, build more housing. But she got into the race really late, and I just don't think that she has caught on.
- [29:32]
Dan Senor
Okay, Larry Summers, coming back to that tweet. He argued that the DSA program, which Mandani is a vessel for, a champion for, would be, in Summer's words, profound and dangerous for New York City, for the Democratic Party and for the USA as it relates to what it would mean for New York City. I mean, could you imagine we'd start to see some kind of exodus of people, of talent from New York? If.
- [29:57]
Howard Wolfson
Dan, you're already seeing that. You know that.
- [29:59]
Dan Senor
Yeah.
- [29:59]
Howard Wolfson
I mean, how many people do we know who have left New York for. For Florida or Texas or other places, you know, further south. I mean, especially Florida. We know plenty of people who have left New York. And, yeah, I think there's every reason to believe that more people would leave if they weren't happy with the governance in the city, and the city began to spend more money poorly and to police less and to engage in rhetoric around Israel that was deeply unhelpful. Yeah, I mean, sure, people would leave.
- [30:31]
Dan Senor
And has the National Progressive Movement, as it flexes its muscles within the Democratic Party, been all in on Mandani? Like, do they see what you're seeing? I guess what you're saying, because you're saying this as a New Yorker, you're worried, but you're also worried as someone who cares about the future of the Democratic Party nationally. So AOC has endorsed him. Jamaal Bowman has endorsed him.
- [30:52]
Howard Wolfson
Bernie Sanders endorsed him.
- [30:53]
Dan Senor
Bernie Sanders, right. So is there.
- [30:56]
Howard Wolfson
Yeah, those are the icons of the left. Right? AOC and Bernie Sanders in particular, and they both endorsed him. So, yeah, I think that they see a possibility for his success. I think there's every reason to believe that he could win. I don't think he necessarily will win, but he absolutely could win. So nobody who's listening to this, who is concerned about what we're saying, should take any of this for granted. And I guess I would make the following plea, because, as I said, I know lots of people who are concerned, have questions about Andrew Cuomo, because he did leave the Governor's Mansion with lots of questions. What I say to them is, this race is going to come down to two people, Zoran Mandami and Andrew Cuomo. We may wish that there were a better set of choices. There aren't. So you need to choose between these two people. And Andrew Cuomo, in my view, as flawed as he may be, is an absolutely better choice than somebody who wants to defund the police, wants to raise taxes, wants to spend lots of money that we don't have, and is an extreme, in my view, opponent of the state of Israel. So those are the choices, and nobody should be under any illusions about that when they go to vote. That's the pitch that I would make.
- [32:08]
Dan Senor
And if they think that I don't have to choose either of them and I can just choose, they're wrong, right?
- [32:14]
Howard Wolfson
No, no, they're wrong. First of all, if you don't choose one of them, your vote probably won't matter in the end. Right. Because it's going to come down between the two of them in the final round. And if you haven't chosen one.
- [32:23]
Dan Senor
So just explain that real quick. If neither of them break 50% on.
- [32:26]
Howard Wolfson
The first round, then basically all of the votes of the candidates who are eliminated go to the people who are remaining on the ballot based on these.
- [32:36]
Dan Senor
Choices, the ranks based on these choices.
- [32:37]
Howard Wolfson
In the end, there are two people.
- [32:38]
Dan Senor
The rank methodology, there are two people left.
- [32:41]
Howard Wolfson
And polling seems to be really clear that it will be these two people, Cuomo and Mandami. And as in my view, as imperfect as Andrew Cuomo is, he is far, far, far preferable than Mandami is.
- [32:55]
Dan Senor
Okay, and just staying on the Cuomo point. While the National Progressive Left have organized, seem to be organizing behind Mandani, Cuomo has sort of doubled down on taking on. It's not just that he says, like the way you're describing him, he's moderate, he's competent, he's got a pretty good track record. He's rhetorically made a point that he's taking on the exact things that Mandani and the DSA represent. So he's leaning into being hostile to that trend that you seem to be worried about.
- [33:24]
Howard Wolfson
Well, I think he's positioned himself as a, as a mainstream centrist Democrat. I mean, that's one of the reasons why my boss, Mike Bloomberg has endorsed him and contributed to the super PAC that is helping him. You know, Andrew Cuomo is a mainstream Democratic politician. He may not be as exciting as a Rahman Dami, but he is certainly more mainstream. And yeah, he is. That's the kind of campaign that he's.
- [33:46]
Dan Senor
Running, 100% and just staying on Bloomberg's decision there. So can you say more? Because I think it was a big moment. I think it was last week or two weeks ago where he announced that he was endorsing Cuomo and he was getting heavily involved. Obviously, putting the Bloomberg name on any candidate is a big deal. It's a big decision. You were probably involved in the conversations that led to that decision. So can you tell us a little more about that? Well, or maybe it was a very easy decision.
- [34:10]
Howard Wolfson
Well, it was difficult in the sense that Mike has a meeting, been involved in New York City politics in any major way. He certainly hasn't gotten involved in a New York City primary. And he was very self conscious about that decision when he left office. He didn't want to put his thumb on the scale in New York once he left City Hall. But I think he increasingly saw that this race was coming down between these two men and that the choice between the two of them was really pretty crystal Clear for him. He, you know, has his own history with Andrew Cuomo, thought Cuomo has done some good things, had some questions about other things that he's done. But again, the choice crystal clear and easy, frankly, between Mandami and Cuomo, I think his view was, you know, I love the city. I'm never leaving here, and I can't sit it out. I don't want to sit it out. The stakes are too high. And, you know, if the stakes are too high for a guy who can leave tomorrow and be just fine, I think that gives you a sense that the stakes are pretty high for the rest of us.
- [35:09]
Dan Senor
Right. Okay. And just wrapping up, up, Howard, it's June. As you said, it's hot. It's going to be really hot on Tuesday. I think many Democratic primary voters could come up with hundreds of reasons why they don't need to vote. How should we think about turnout?
- [35:22]
Howard Wolfson
I think it'll probably be higher than it was four years ago, but that.
- [35:25]
Dan Senor
Was coming out of COVID That was a different era.
- [35:27]
Howard Wolfson
Yeah, it could be, you know, 10 or 15% of the eligible electorate. I mean, you know, sometimes people think, oh, my vote doesn't matter. Vote really matters. Like, they're not that many people who actually come out and vote in these primaries. So. And there are a lot, you know, people like you and I know that there are registered Democrats who will vote in a presidential election, but not in a municipal election. They'll vote in a general election, but not in a primary. I gotta tell you, if you are a registered Democrat and what you have heard today concerns you or you really care about the future of New York, do not sit this out. There is an opportunity to vote early. You can vote early Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and then come out, or you can obviously come out on election Day on Tuesday between Cuomo and Mandami, a clear choice. Rank Cuomo.
- [36:13]
Dan Senor
All right, Howard, we will leave it there. I think that message is crystal clear. Thank you for doing this. And we will probably regroup with you at some point here after the election to pick up the pieces and hopefully not be horrified by the outcome.
- [36:28]
Howard Wolfson
Indeed.
- [36:30]
Dan Senor
Indeed. All right. Thanks for doing this.
- [36:31]
Howard Wolfson
Yeah. Thank you.
- [36:42]
Dan Senor
That's our show for today. If you found this episode valuable, please share it with others who might appreciate it. Time and again, we found that our listeners are the ones driving the growth of the call me back community. So thank you. And to offer comments, suggestions, sign up for updates, or explore past episodes, please visit our website, ark media.org that's arkmedia.org where you can deepen your understanding of the topics we cover. Call Me Back is produced and edited by Ilan Benatar. Sound and video editing by Martin Huergo and Mariangelis Burgos. Our director of operations is Maya Rakoff. Research by Gabe Silverstein. Our music was composed by Yuval Semo. Until next time, I'm your host, Dan. Senor.