Podcast Summary: Winning the Water Game in the Middle East
Podcast: Call Me Back – with Dan Senor
Episode: Bonus episode: Winning the Water Game in the Middle East – with Seth Siegel
Date: December 7, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode features a wide-ranging discussion on the Middle East’s mounting water challenges, with a particular focus on Israel’s leadership in water innovation and management contrasted with the missteps and crises in neighboring countries, especially Iran. The guest, Seth Siegel, author of Let There Be Water and noted water policy expert, shares insights from his research and recent Wall Street Journal op-ed on Iran’s water crisis. The conversation also explores the geopolitical, economic, and technological dimensions of water policy in the region and beyond.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Israeli and Regional Economic Context
- Brief review of major Israeli tech and stock market news, including:
- A $100M investment in Israeli drone company "Heven," reaching unicorn status [01:48]
- Tel Aviv Stock Exchange’s 1.03% rise following PM Netanyahu’s request for a pardon [02:50]
- Reflection on the war’s impact on Israel’s political and economic environment, upcoming elections, and significant debates over state budget allocations for defense vs. other sectors [04:19]
- Quote (Yonatan Adiri, 04:19): “Is Israel on its way to seconding its entire economy to the defense budget or not? Big questions. And a lot of that will be decided by who wins the election.”
2. Windex Update (Israeli Tech Stock Index)
- Windex rebounded nearly 5% after a period of losses; strong performance by companies such as Palo Alto Networks, ZIM (shipping), Lemonade, and Teva Pharmaceuticals [08:11]
- Notable rise of Teva stock by 11.7% after positive news on drug approvals [10:33]
- Tech companies like Monday.com and Wix face pressure due to market doubts about sustaining growth after an AI-fueled boom [11:10]
- Quote (Yonatan Adiri, 10:33): “Teva was at some point the biggest generic drug company in the world… it’s nice to see Teva, you know, assuming its role.”
3. Iran’s Water Crisis: How Did It Happen?
Guest: Seth Siegel [12:11]
- Iran faces a catastrophic water crisis driven by slow-moving but systemic failures:
- Overuse of water, primarily for subsidized agriculture (90% of usage)
- Bad policy decisions, reckless subsidies, lack of water pricing
- Energy subsidies enabling unrestrained groundwater pumping
- Poor infrastructure maintenance, high leakage, corruption
- The IRGC’s control of major water projects, leading to mismanagement and ethnic favoritism
- Urban growth and illegal development reduce aquifer recharge
- Climate factors contribute, but are not the sole cause
- Quote (Seth Siegel, 12:11): “When you do things that are so extraordinarily stupid…bad policy, corrupt policy…you’re going to really come a cropper when the bad day comes.”
Timestamps:
- Iran’s water system dysfunction explained: [12:11]–[15:37]
4. The Impact of Anti-Israel Policy on Iran’s Water Management
[15:53]
- Pre-revolution: Iran benefited from close cooperation with Israeli water experts, who helped modernize its systems under the Shah from 1960s–1979.
- The 1979 revolution ended this collaboration; Israeli engineers fled, and their Iranian-trained peers were persecuted.
- Post-revolution, Iran failed to recover its water system management, declining rapidly without outside expertise.
- Quote (Seth Siegel, 15:53): “Once [the Israelis] left, over the next number of years, the [Iranian] system really started to fall apart and they never really recovered from it.”
Timestamps:
- Israel-Iran water cooperation history: [15:53]–[19:26]
5. Politics and the Water Dilemma in the Region
[19:26]
- Regional leaders resist adopting Israeli technology due to political considerations and domestic reluctance to increase water tariffs or remove subsidies.
- Example: President Mubarak of Egypt refused Israeli desalination technology [20:01]
- Example: Syria’s regime under Assad disastrously promoted water-intensive cotton crops to appease farmers [21:01]
- Water infrastructure reform is politically challenging; politicians avoid unpopular but necessary moves.
- Quote (Seth Siegel, 21:01): “Water price increases…can never be popular. They’re seen as attacks. No one understands why water should be more expensive.”
Timestamps:
- Regional political obstacles: [19:26]–[23:19]
6. What Has Israel Gotten Right?
[23:19]
- Israel’s “all of the above” strategy incorporates:
- Early prioritization of water management even before statehood
- Heavy investment in R&D and technology (desalination, drip irrigation, wastewater recycling)
- Full-cost water pricing for all consumers; market forces drive efficiency
- National culture fosters collective action and innovation in water management
- Creation of parallel wastewater infrastructure for agriculture (treated to potable standard, used for crops)
- Redundancies and diversification: rainfall, desalinated water, recycled water, etc.
- Financial innovation: securing non-government financing for water infrastructure
- Recent milestone: Israel now directs desalinated water back into the Sea of Galilee, restoring natural systems [27:52]
- Quote (Seth Siegel, 27:52): “Nobody else in the world is even thinking about...taking our desalinated water and diverting it for the sake of nature.”
Timestamps:
- Israel’s approach summarized: [23:19]–[28:50]
7. Exporting Water Know-How & Diplomacy
[28:53]
- Israeli water expertise is in global demand, even in countries without formal ties (Gulf states, North Africa, China)
- Creative workarounds are used: unmarked passports, secret entry for Israeli experts and products without Hebrew markings
- Water diplomacy has opened diplomatic doors with countries like China and drives broader international relationships
- Quote (Seth Siegel, 29:19): “There are 140 countries around the world that have welcomed Israeli water technology…”
Timestamps:
- Israel’s water tech in global markets: [28:53]–[31:47]
8. The Future: Water as Geostrategic Leverage and Cutting-Edge Innovation
[31:47]
- Gulf states (e.g. Saudi Arabia) are likely future customers for advanced Israeli desalination.
- Notable Israeli innovation: NDrip, founded by Prof. Uri Shani, makes flood irrigation vastly more efficient, reducing water use by half while increasing yields [32:04]
- Emerging partnership models: data centers use water-based cooling and subsidize local farmers to install NDrip technology, conserving water across sectors.
Timestamps:
- Future pathways for water diplomacy/tech: [31:47]–[34:40]
9. Cutting Edge Developments in Water Tech
[36:26]
- Cloud seeding: familiar and controversial, not new; both Israel and Iran use the technique but with mixed results
- Drone technology: widespread adoption of affordable drones for monitoring and managing large farms [36:58]
- New frontier: Integrating in-ground sensors with satellite data for precision agriculture, optimizing fertilizer and irrigation at the micro-level [37:32]
- Quote (Seth Siegel, 37:46): “An idea that I have seen and that I like a lot is that you lay over the canals, solar panels on little stilts...lowering evaporation and generating clean energy.”
- Quote (Seth Siegel, 37:32): “There’s a way now to use in-ground sensors…marry those...to a rotating satellite system...which allows governments or farmers to have a sense of what’s going on…by crop, by acre, by country.”
Timestamps:
- Water tech innovations: [36:26]–[40:52]
10. Closing Reflections: Water, Politics, and Transformation
-
The water issue has potential to catalyze broader political and social change—particularly in Iran, where water shortages may soon trigger wider unrest [41:28]
- Quote (Seth Siegel, 41:28): “This could actually be a transformational moment where governments start to say we don’t want to go down the route of Iran and where the Iranian people could say we don’t want this terrible regime over our heads anymore.”
-
The episode closes with reflections on Israel’s political choices, the courage required for reform, and the importance of exporting effective solutions in a region burdened by history and politics [42:29]
- Quote (Yonatan Adiri, 42:29): “It’s actually a tale of political courage as much as it is a tech story or an infrastructure story.”
Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)
-
On Iran’s mismanagement:
Seth Siegel [12:11]: “It’s just dumb, bad policy, corrupt policy…when you do things like that, then you’re going to really come a cropper when the bad day comes.” -
On politics and water pricing:
Seth Siegel [21:01]: “Politicians really do not like to ask things of their publics... water pricing increases can never be popular. They’re seen as attacks.” -
On Israeli innovation in the Sea of Galilee:
Seth Siegel [27:52]: “Nobody else in the world is even thinking about...taking our desalinated water and diverting it for the sake of nature.” -
On global water diplomacy:
Seth Siegel [29:19]: “There are 140 countries around the world that have welcomed Israeli water technology and water technologists.” -
On the political challenge:
Yonatan Adiri [42:29]: “It’s actually a tale of political courage as much as it is a tech story or an infrastructure story.” -
On potential transformation in Iran:
Seth Siegel [41:28]: “This could…be the final straw where people just say, ‘We gave you everything and what have you done to us? You’ve ruined our environment.’”
Section Timestamps
| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|---------------| | Market/Economic Context | [01:46]–[08:07] | | Iran Water Crisis intro (Seth Siegel) | [11:50]–[15:37] | | Israel-Iran water collaboration history | [15:53]–[19:26] | | Regional politics and water | [19:26]–[23:19] | | Israel's solutions and innovations | [23:19]–[28:50] | | Water know-how exports | [28:53]–[31:47] | | Water as diplomatic/geopolitical asset | [31:47]–[34:40] | | Water tech trends/cutting-edge | [36:26]–[40:52] | | Closing reflections | [41:28]–[44:24] |
Tone & Style
The conversation remains clear-eyed, data-driven, and lively, with humor and friendly banter. The hosts and guest combine deep expertise with a candid, practical lens. There’s persistent optimism about innovation, tempered by realism about the political and social barriers to progress in the Middle East.
Conclusion
This episode provides an in-depth look at water as a driving force in Middle Eastern economics, society, and geopolitics. It highlights Israel’s hard-won innovations both as a model and as a potential source of hope, while delivering sober assessments of the challenges and missed opportunities faced by others in the region. The exchanges—rich with anecdotes, sharp analysis, and passion—underscore that water is not just a resource but a battleground for political will, technological ingenuity, and international collaboration.