Bret Stephens: Should We Stop Funding the Fight Against Antisemitism? (INSIDE Call me Back sneak peek)

Summary

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Call Me Back with Dan Senor

Episode: Bret Stephens: Should We Stop Funding the Fight Against Antisemitism?
Date: February 7, 2026
Guest: Bret Stephens (New York Times columnist, author)
Host: Dan Senor
Format: INSIDE Call Me Back (members-only sneak peek)

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Episode Overview

This special "Inside Call Me Back" episode features an unfiltered conversation between host Dan Senor and New York Times columnist Bret Stephens. The discussion centers on Stephens' provocative "State of World Jewry" address at the 92nd Street Y, where he controversially suggested that organizations such as the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) should be "dismantled." The episode explores whether the significant resources spent fighting antisemitism might be better invested in strengthening Jewish identity and community resilience, rather than in combating external hate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reaction to Bret Stephens' Speech

• Stephens describes post-speech feedback:
  • The response was "overwhelmingly positive" among prominent figures in the Jewish community, many of whom admitted they had discussed such ideas in private but never publicly (01:36).
  • Stephens expresses relief at the warmth of the response, though he admits, “maybe it's just the case that I'm hearing from the people who liked it and not hearing from the people who didn't.” (01:36)

2. The ‘Dismantle the ADL’ Statement

• Stephens clarifies his stance:
  • His remark was made "in the context of a question" from a rabbi and was somewhat extemporaneous (02:52).
  • He acknowledges the ADL's valuable aspects—especially reporting on antisemitism, data collection, and collaboration with law enforcement (03:05).
• Critique of Funding Priorities:
  • Stephens argues that the vast sums spent focusing on antisemitism perpetuate a negative identity for Jews rooted in victimization:

    “Millions of dollars are being spent on an aspect of Jewish identity, namely the victimization of Jews, which is a wholly negative phenomenon ... It reminds me of that scene in The Wolf of Wall Street where the Leonardo DiCaprio character is bunching up $100 bills and throwing them in a wastepaper bin. I think that's essentially the equivalent of what we're doing as a Jewish community.” —Bret Stephens (03:16)

• He further asserts:
  • The real crisis is the weakening of Jewish bonds—through intermarriage, disengagement, and a loss of pride in Jewish identity and Israel.
  • "That's the work that we should be doing to repair, rather than simply noting that incidents of antisemitism are rising." (04:18)

3. Proposal: Investing in Jewish Continuity over ADL-like Advocacy

• Stephens’ central recommendation:
  • Philanthropic resources should be redirected to engage the next generation in Judaism and cultivate a proud, confident sense of identity:

    “We should be investing practically every cent we have philanthropically available to us to ensuring that the next generation of American Jews feels connected, feels that their Jewishness is at the center of their spiritual and cultural and political affinities.” (04:37)

• Critique of Priorities—Political and Cultural
  • Stephens raises the alarm over the normalization of antisemitic or anti-Israel political candidates among Jews in New York, even pushing back when Senor challenges the data:

    “Even if it's ... 20% ... too much. It should have been 1%.” (05:28)

4. The Limits of Fighting Antisemitism in Media and Social Platforms

• Senor’s input:
  • He acknowledges the value of groups like the ADL, especially in liaising with agencies like the FBI and NYPD (05:34), but agrees with Stephens that combating antisemitism is not an ‘information war’ that can be won in the public domain.
• Stephens’ skepticism of media battles:
  • Dismissing efforts to battle antisemitism on platforms like TikTok:

    “Social media is a numbers game. Sadly, we 15 million or so Jews don’t have the numbers. Even if you add 100 million, 200 million allies around the world, that’s not a game we’re ever going to win.” (06:12)

5. Israel as a Model for Jewish Strength and Resilience

• Historical context:
  • Brett notes that unfavorable coverage and public opinion have dogged Israel for its entire history, but this didn’t prevent the country’s extraordinary success.

    “Israel was always losing the battle for public opinion. ... Amid all of this hatred, Israel is thriving as never before... a tiny country with a kind of a superpower footprint in the world.” (07:11)

• Thesis:
  • The true success of the Jewish people has always stemmed from investing in their own community confidence, not from persuading others of their worth.

    “The key to Jewish success and survival is not going to rest on the good opinion of others. It’s going to rest on what we as Jews do with the resources that we have.” (07:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It's just you, me and 500,000 Jews.” —Bret Stephens (01:22)
• “Millions of dollars are being spent on an aspect of Jewish identity, namely the victimization of Jews, which is a wholly negative phenomenon.” —Bret Stephens (03:16)
• “That's the work that we should be doing to repair, rather than simply noting that incidents of antisemitism are rising.” —Bret Stephens (04:18)
• “The key to Jewish success and survival is not going to rest on the good opinion of others. It's going to rest on what we as Jews do with the resources that we have.” —Bret Stephens (07:52)
• “Social media is a numbers game. Sadly, we 15 million or so Jews don't have the numbers.” —Bret Stephens (06:12)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:22: Bret Stephens jokes about the vast Jewish audience and addresses initial feedback to his speech.
• 02:52: Stephens explains his controversial “dismantle the ADL” remark, its context, and core reasoning.
• 03:16: Critique of the current philanthropic focus on combating antisemitism; analogy to The Wolf of Wall Street.
• 04:18: Stephens pivots to what he sees as the true crisis: disconnection from Jewish identity among younger generations.
• 05:34: Discussion of the continuing value—but limited impact—of the ADL and similar groups.
• 06:12: Stephens dismisses “fighting antisemitism on TikTok” as a futile numbers game.
• 07:11: Historical analysis of Israel’s struggle with global public opinion and focus on internal strength.
• 07:52: Bret’s thesis on Jewish survival and the importance of internal investment over external acceptance.

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Tone & Language

• Both Senor and Stephens maintain an analytical yet candid, occasionally irreverent tone. Stephens is both provocative and introspective, balancing critique with reflections on communal priorities. The discussion is rich in metaphor, personal anecdote, and direct challenge, making it engaging for listeners invested in Jewish communal life or the broader question of minority identity in the modern era.

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Summary Usefulness
This summary delivers the full substance of the conversation for anyone unable to listen, highlighting both the central debate—whether fighting antisemitism is a losing battle or misplaced priority—and the nuanced back-and-forth about what it means to invest in Jewish survival for the next generation.

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

You are listening to an art media podcast. Hi, it's Dan. This is a sneak peek from the members only edition of our show inside call me Back, where we pull back the curtain and have the conversations we typically have after the cameras stop rolling. I hope you enjoyed this segment and if you want to get the full episode and support our mission at ARC Media, please become an inside call me back member by following the link in the description or by going to arkmedia.org that's arkmedia.org and to all our insiders, thank you. It's your support that keeps the lights on at arc Media. Today we have a special inside call me back guest, Bret Stephens of the New York Times and Superior Journal. And. And the author of a very thought provoking, some would say provocative speech, an address that he delivered just a few nights ago that you could hear on the main call me back feed the state of world jury address that Brett delivered at the 92nd Street. Why, Brett, welcome to this cozy, safe space that we call inside Call me Back where you can let it all rip and say whatever you want to say, controversy be damned. Thanks for being here.

[A]

It's just you, me and 500,000 Jews.

[B]

You know what? What could go wrong? Yeah, I'm just. What's your experience been since delivering the address? Some could argue you kind of dropped a bomb there. What's been the experience for you in the days since Sunday night?

[A]

Well, a little bit to my surprise, the response has been overwhelmingly positive. A lot of people who shall go nameless, but prominent names in the Jewish world have written me to say, this is something that we've been thinking about talking about privately for a long time, and you kind of name the problem and pointed away to the right kind of solution. So that's been gratifying. I didn't really know how the speech was gonna be received when I delivered it, and I feared that the response would be, in many quarters much angrier than it's proved to be. But that may be. It's just the case that I'm hearing from the people who liked it and not hearing from the people who didn't. Right.

[B]

All right. One of the more controversial points I wanna get to this that you made in the address was that if it were up to you, I think you use the word dismantle the ADL or dismantle organizations like the adl, or just basically we're using the ADL here as an avatar. I mean, just generally speaking, this category of organizations which are on the front lines fighting anti semitism so that comment got a lot of attention, as you and I have talked about offline. Explain what you were thinking and making the point and how you would address the backlash to your comments.

[A]

I said dismantle the ADL in the context of a question, which I didn't anticipate. That was thrown at me by Rabbi ing.

[B]

He's good at that.

[A]

He's good at that. That's the role of a good.

[B]

He did his job, you did yours.

[A]

And I should acknowledge that there are aspects of the work of the ADL in terms of reporting antisemitism, giving us a clear picture of the direction of anti Semitic incidents, working with local police to deal with anti Semitic incidents, that I think is probably valuable. But for the most part, millions of dollars are being spent on an aspect of Jewish identity, namely the victimization of Jews, which is a wholly negative phenomenon. And to me, that is money, that. It reminds me of that scene in the Wolf of Wall street where the Leonardo DiCaprio character is bunching up $100 bills and throwing them in a wastepaper bin. I think that's essentially the equivalent of what we're doing as a Jewish community. It is astounding how much of our energy has been focused on this issue, and it's simply not winnable, and it's not the fight that we need to be having. We have a situation in America where a lot of American Jews are very aware that antisemitism is on the rise. And yet I read somewhere that in this century, 60% of Jewish marriages are intermarriages. And maybe some of those involve a spouse who's willing to convert to Judaism. But in many of those cases, it's someone who's moving away from. For many, many young Jews, the last time they had a significant Jewish experience was their bar bat mitzvah. And then they're walking away. For many young Jews, instead of being proud of Israel and their connection to Israel, they're embarrassed by it. That's the work that we should be doing to repair, rather than simply noting that incidents of antisemitism are rising. So let's ask ourselves, what should we be doing? And my argument is we should be investing practically every cent we have philanthropically available to us to ensuring that the next generation of American Jews feels connected, feels that their Jewishness is at the center of their spiritual and cultural and political affinities. You know, when a third of New York Jews voted for someone who I consider an anti Semite, Mayor Mamdani, there's a problem.

[B]

Well, I do think the number is actually lower than that. I think there'll be data that comes out that shows everyone cites that CNN exit poll from the mayoral election, but whatever, if it's not a third, it's.

[A]

Even if it's say 20%, 20% or.

[B]

15%, whatever it is.

[A]

Right. Too much. It should have been 1%. Right.

[B]

Okay, but I just want to just put a fine point on this because I do think the ADL and other organizations do do important work, especially working with the FBI and as you said, law enforcement agencies. And they really, I mean, we live in New York City. The NYPD is very dialed in and informed about antisemitism as it relates to violence and vandalism and harassment. Could they be doing more? Should they do more? Obviously, it's like they say in Hebrew, you know, gum for gum, like yes, yes, that and yes, that. Unfortunately, I take your point that fighting antisemitism is not really an information war that we can win in the public domain.

[A]

On a speaking tour, someone will come up to me and say, you know, what should we do about the anti Semitism on TikTok? We need to invest in this. It's foolish to do this. Social media is a numbers game. Sadly, we 15 million or so Jews don't have the numbers. Even if you add 100 million, 200 million allies around the world, that's not a game we're ever going to win.

[B]

No, Sarah Hurwitz makes the point, I quoted her that, you know, the number of Jews is in the world is the, is the, you add them all up or the size of a mid tier city in China.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We're tiny.

[A]

Right. On the other hand, where does our success lie? It lies in areas where we as a community have invested in making ourselves strong. A lot of American Jews are very upset about all the bad press that Israel got in the last three years. It's actually in the last 75 years. Because if you go back, it precedes the Intifada, it precedes the 1970s, it precedes the Six Day War. Yeah. Israel was always losing the battle for public opinion. And in the meantime, the Israelis who more or less shrugged it off, right, and more or less didn't care all that much about Hasbara, have succeeded in creating, with the arguable exception of Singapore, the single most successful post colonial state in the world. The salient fact is that amid all of this hatred, Israel is thriving as never before. Israel is on its way, as Michael Eisenberg reminds us, to having a trillion dollar economy. I mean, Israel is a tiny country with a kind of a superpower footprint in the world. And none of that has to do with how the world perceived the Jews or the Jewish state. It had everything to do with the kind of investments that Israelis were willing to make in themselves, their cultural confidence, and also the investments that the American Jewish community were prepared to make in Israel, irrespective of how their neighbors felt or whether it was cool or uncool. That is my central point, that the key to Jewish success and survival is not going to rest on the good opinion of others. It's going to rest on what we as Jews do with the resources that we have. And one of the things we have to make sure we're doing is we're spending them on the places that need help. There's a whole universe of things that need help in Israel. I don't think winning the war of TikTok is one of them.

[B]

So you talked about the psychology of antisemitism. You say we all miss. That's it for our sneak peek today. If you want to catch the full episode, please subscribe to Inside. Call me back by following the link in the description or by going to ark media.org that's ark media.org your support is what allows us to do what we do here at arc Media. I hope to see you there. Call Me Back is produced and edited by Lon Benatar. Arc Media's executive producer is Adam James Levin Aretti. Our production manager is Brittany Cohn. Sound and video editing by Liquid Audio. Our music was composed by Yuval Semo. Until next time, I'm your host, Dan Senor.