Podcast Summary: Call Me Back LIVE in NYC – with Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal

Podcast: Call Me Back – with Dan Senor
Date: October 27, 2025
Location: The Stryker Center, New York City
Guests: Nadav Eyal (journalist, Yedioth Ahronot), Amit Segal (journalist, Channel 12/Israel Hayom)
Host: Dan Senor
Theme: Presenting the challenges and dilemmas facing Israelis to a global audience after two years of war.

Overview

This special live episode gathers over 1,400 attendees for an in-depth, unfiltered conversation about the pivotal issues facing Israel two years after October 7th. Hosts Dan Senor, with guests Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal—two of Israel’s leading journalists—reflect on the war, its aftermath, the psychological and political fallout, hostage policies, and the societal dilemmas unique to a democracy under attack. Personal stories, including that of heroic festival attendee Aner Shapira (via his mother Shira), anchor the abstract debates in poignant reality. The tone is raw, sometimes darkly humorous, and deeply engaged, striving to present the Israeli experience to both domestic and international audiences.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Cost of Values in Democracies

• Quote: “If you have values, they're going to cost you something. Democracies that appreciate life, they're going to pay a heavy price for that.” — Nadav Eyal [00:09]
• Democracies like Israel’s must pay a steeper price for their commitment to life and solidarity, in stark contrast to dictatorships.

2. The Hostage Dilemma and Impact on Strategy

• Amit draws a vivid analogy: “Imagine a chess game in which you must kill the king, but your opponent needs only to take your pawn. Each and every pawn they take makes them win the game… They took 251 pawns. Checkmate.” [00:52; repeated at 44:00+]
• The recurring threat: negotiating with an enemy who exploits societal values, returning to the issue of whether the price Israel pays for the return of hostages is ultimately unsustainable or even strategically self-defeating.

Notable Segment: Deep Dive on the Moral and Strategic Quagmire

• "The noble sign of having solidarity and sympathy with our brothers would be used by Hamas to get away with October 7th…But for the first time, this price was not tactical, but strategic." — Amit Segal [43:28]
• If releasing hostages means Hamas survives to do it again, what is the path forward?

3. Summarizing Two Years to a Released Hostage

• Listener Question: How would you summarize the past two years to someone who’d been held hostage since October 7, 2023? [07:46]
  • Nadav’s Response [07:46–10:15]: Israel survived and ultimately defeated its enemies; Iranian and Hezbollah leadership are gone, and the “axis of terror” is “crushed.” More than anything, he highlights the resilience, solidarity, and hope within Israeli society.
  • Amit’s Response [10:15–12:11]: Contrasts the attack’s horror with Israel’s ultimate military might and the heroism of individuals, telling the story of Aner Shapira.

4. Heroism and Memory: Aner Shapira’s Story

• Interlude: Shira Shapiro, Aner’s mother, describes his courage at the Nova Festival (throwing back grenades, saving lives, dying in the process) and their foundation’s attempts to honor his legacy through music and connection. [12:38]
  • “For him, the way that he decided to give his life in order to save lives is exactly the same way that he chose to live his life.” — Shira Shapiro [12:38]

5. Surprises of the War Years

• Nadav: Surprised by how weak Israel’s enemies really were, and by Israel’s capacity to win alone, with essential US support but little from the rest of the world. He’s struck by the international community’s failures, both before and after October 7. [15:22]
• Amit: The war exhausted every facet of Israeli society and military preparedness, yet Israel not only survived but thrived demographically and economically. [19:02]
• Dan: Shocked by the casual antisemitism in the West—rationalizations and victim-blaming grew “normal,” even among educated moderates. [20:48]

6. Antisemitism: Israeli vs. Diaspora Perspectives

• Amit: Shares personal anecdotes, highlighting the normalization of antisemitism post-October 7—both classic hate and the newer, “rationalized” forms. [23:18]
• Nadav: Points out the difference in “sensibility” to antisemitism between Israelis (a majority in their state) and Diaspora Jews (always minorities), and the additional pressures and fears faced by the global Jewish community. [25:58]
• Debate over language: Normalizing words like “genocide” and “apartheid” is leading Israelis abroad to feel personally endangered and accused. [27:15]

7. Media Coverage and International Perception

• Amit: Israeli press was criticized for underreporting Gaza’s suffering; he responds that global outlets like The New York Times overcompensate, creating disproportionate coverage. He argues international attention is not truly about Gaza, but about the Jews. [31:22]
• Discussion of the new Gaza-focused political party in the UK: “This is the first time in history in which a party is elected on the basis of what's happening in another country." — Amit Segal [33:13]

8. How to Handle Hostages Now and Next Time

• Consensus: You cannot allow genocidal, fundamentalist groups to build regimes at your borders—otherwise hostage-taking will recur. [40:31–42:26]
• Debate: Should Israel continue paying such a high price for immediate solidarity, or become more hard-nosed like other countries? Is it sustainable or moral to act differently?
• “Within this house, it’s all for one and one for all. If we fail on that, what’s left of us?" — Nadav Eyal [47:06]
• “Solidarity is very important. But we should not always mix it with refusal to acknowledge the price that you might pay in the future.” — Amit Segal [51:38]

9. The Future: Gaza, Israeli Politics, and Unity

Gaza’s Next Phase

• Nadav: The situation is “a mess” and unpredictable. There’s no clarity on what an “international stabilization force” will actually look like or accomplish. [52:45]
• Amit: Imagines Gaza will resemble Berlin after WWII—an “East Gaza” under Hamas, ruined and unrecovered, and a “West Gaza” reconstructed and educated anew under outside (moderate Arab) patronage, but this will be a generational task. [52:45–56:45]
• Dan & Amit: Skeptical any outside or local force can “disarm” Hamas quickly or easily.

Israeli Politics and Netanyahu’s Future

• Nadav: Netanyahu remains tactically strong and may benefit by running for elections sooner rather than later, before the long-term fallout of war becomes clear. [57:43]
• Amit: Unity government is likely and necessary—narrow, one-party rule (left or right) has failed to meet Israel’s existential challenges. [62:19]
• Conclusion: Israeli voters, still reeling from trauma, may be ready for compromise and coalition.

10. Leadership and Lessons from History

• Amit’s Book (“The 4am Call”): Spotlights Israeli prime ministers who favored unity governments—Yitzhak Shamir and Levi Eshkol—as the kind of “gray” but effective leaders who succeeded by transcending partisanship. [63:50]
• “The joke in Israel was that the Messiah…never comes, and Ben Gurion never goes.” — Amit Segal [63:59]

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• Nadav Eyal on democratic values:

  “If you have values, they're going to cost you something. Democracies that appreciate life, they're going to pay a heavy price for that. More than dictatorships. That's the truth.” [00:09]

• Amit Segal on the hostage dilemma:

  “Imagine a chess game in which you must kill the king, but your opponent needs only to take your pawn. Each and every pawn they take makes them win the game. Checkmate. They took 251 pawns. Checkmate. That was the deal that was offered to Israel. How would we act next time if there are more hostages?” [00:52, again at 44:00+]

• Shira Shapiro on her son Aner:

  “For him, the way that he decided to give his life in order to save lives is exactly the same way that he chose to live his life… what we need now is to build bridges and to connect. And the way to do it is through music, through creativity. It's a soft tool, but it is so powerful.” [12:38]

• Dan Senor on Western antisemitism:

  “...what I was most surprised as an American was, you know this line that my friend Rabbi David Ingber says – on October 7, Israel was at war, but we here in the Diaspora suddenly found that we were under attack…” [20:48]

• Amit Segal on global interest:

  “There is a new party in the United Kingdom…that deals only with one thing: Gaza. So there are parts in the United Kingdom that elect people…on the basis of what's happening in another country…It's not about Gaza, it's about the Jews.” [33:13]

• Nadav Eyal on Israel’s existential dilemma:

  “In this villa in the jungle, there is a promise. That's the Israeli contract. It's a very painful contract. It says you're going to live here in the Middle East. It's going to be very difficult for you, and people are going to try and kill you all the time. But within this house, truly, it’s all for one and one fall. If we fail on that…what’s left of us?” [47:06]

Key Segment Timestamps

• [00:09] Opening Reflection on Values and Cost
• [07:46–12:11] “How would you summarize two years for a returning hostage?”
• [12:38] Shira Shapiro speaks about Aner Shapira
• [15:22–20:48] Surprises of the war years – military, social, political, international
• [23:18] Antisemitism in Israel and the Diaspora
• [27:15/31:22+] International criticism and media coverage of Israel/Gaza; normalization of terms like “genocide”
• [43:28+] Deep hostages dilemma debate
• [52:45–57:24] The future of Gaza: stabilization, division, generational change
• [57:43–62:55] Israeli political future, Netanyahu’s prospects, unity government advocacy
• [63:50+] Lessons from Israeli PMs and Amit’s book

Conclusion

The episode delivers a candid window into postwar Israel: the pride in resilience, the trauma of loss, the bitter strategic tradeoffs, and the persistent hope for unity—both for Israelis themselves and between Jews everywhere. Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal, with Dan Senor, unspool not just analysis but lived reality, asking: Can Israel stay moral and survive? Can it afford the price of its own values? And what does ‘normal’ even look like after two years of war?