Call Me Back with Dan Senor (Ark Media)

Episode: Elation, Grief, and a Call at 4AM
Date: October 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode reflects on a historic night in Israel as crowds gather to celebrate the end of the war and anticipate the return of hostages. Dan Senor provides global context for the moment, airing excerpts from speeches by Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, and Rachel Goldberg-Polin, capturing the duality of elation and grief among Israelis. The main segment features a deep-dive interview with Amit Segal about his new book, "A Call at 4 AM: 13 Prime Ministers and the Crucial Decisions That Shaped Israeli Politics," offering an insider’s tour of pivotal moments and key figures in Israeli political history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Celebratory Rally in Israel – Hope & Tension

Speeches from Hostage Square, Tel Aviv

• Mass rallies across Israel celebrate the end of the war and hope for hostages' imminent return ([00:04]).
• Steve Witkoff’s speech highlights Israeli resilience and gratitude for international support, especially from the US and President Trump. Notably, PM Netanyahu is booed by parts of the crowd, revealing internal divisions ([00:56]).
  • “When courage meets conviction, miracles can happen… Peace is not weakness. It is the highest form of strength.” — Steve Witkoff ([00:56])
• Jared Kushner’s address is deeply emotional, reflecting on October 7th, praising Israeli values and the IDF amidst global criticism ([02:56]).
  • “Seeing these horrific, barbaric acts shocked me to my core in a way that I’ll never be the same… You chose to stand for the values that you stand for.” — Jared Kushner ([02:56])

2. The Israeli Mood: Elation Tempered by Grief

• Dan Senor comments on the complex emotional landscape in Israel: elation at war’s end is balanced by trauma and unresolved grief ([05:54]).
• Rachel Goldberg-Polin, a recurring podcast guest and hostage family member, articulates the national mood by referencing Qohelet, the biblical book read that day ([06:37]).
  • “There is a time to weep and a time to laugh—and we have to do both right now...I know that the country, the nation, Jews all over the world are starving to celebrate and be done with this dark chapter...But we are not done yet. Until they are all home.” — Rachel Goldberg-Polin ([06:37])

3. US International Role & Security Updates

• US officials visited a CENTCOM base in Gaza to oversee the ceasefire’s implementation.
• America will coordinate an international stabilization force in Gaza (no US troops in combat roles), with Turkey, Egypt, and Qatar participating ([08:18]).
• Details about hostage release and the regional visit from President Trump are anticipated in upcoming episodes.

4. Amit Segal on Israeli Political Culture

Introduction to "A Call at 4 AM" ([09:36])

• Amit Segal’s new book is praised as a uniquely insightful look at Israeli politics for a Western audience.
• Segal aims to “puncture myths” and provide context lost in Western coverage.

Inside the Netanyahu 4AM Call ([12:31])

• Amit recounts his first conversation with Netanyahu after October 7, 2023, which encapsulates the burden of Israeli leadership.
  • “[Netanyahu] said, ‘You should never go into politics.’” — Amit Segal ([14:00])
  • Highlights the immense pressure, complexity, and the tragedy of leadership in Israel.

The ‘Red Phone’—National Trauma & Leadership

• The book’s opening image is the prime minister’s “red phone,” a symbol of looming crisis ([15:53]).
• Segal compares past and present failures to anticipate attacks (Yom Kippur War, October 7).
• “It ends with a tragedy. And I knew it’s going to end with a tragedy. I just didn’t know that it’s going to be Israel’s biggest tragedy since the Holocaust.” — Amit Segal ([14:33])

5. Explaining Israeli Politics to a Western Audience

How “Locals” Think ([12:31], [20:07])

• Israeli politics is “messy, hectic” and cannot be analogized to US or UK systems:
  • No geographic constituencies (all national proportionate voting).
  • No fixed terms for leaders—government can collapse any week.
  • Cabinet roles do not correspond to US “importance.”
  • No direct equivalent for “accountability” in Hebrew — politicians frequently escape responsibility ([23:25]).
  • “Netanyahu is way stronger as a Prime Minister than Trump, Obama or Biden... But his power is very limited because it can end every time.” — Amit Segal ([22:21])

Misconceptions about Israeli Right/Left ([24:08] onward)

• US simplifies Israeli politics by projecting its right-left and identity politics; real divides are about security, not economy.
• Security and national survival override all other issues (“it’s fear, not economics”).
• Ultra-Orthodox parties are welfare statist, contrary to US conservative models ([26:39]).
  • “In Israel, your leftist position is measured not by the distance from Che Guevara, but from Yasser Arafat.” — Amit Segal ([28:00])

The Demographics of Power

• Netanyahu harnessed both security fears and connections to Judaism, creating a coalition of ultra-Orthodox, national-religious, and traditional Jews.
• His personal religiosity is disputed, but his political identity is built on unifying these groups ([29:35]).

Political Tragedies—Destinies of Israeli Leaders ([33:47] onward)

• The careers of most Israeli PMs end in personal or national tragedy (from Ben Gurion’s exile to Rabin’s assassination, Sharon’s stroke, Begin’s withdrawal from public life).
• “No matter how beautiful the play, it will always end with a tragedy. This is the case for every prime minister.” — Amit Segal ([36:56])

6. Surprising Favorites among Prime Ministers

• Segal singles out Levi Eshkol (left) and Yitzhak Shamir (right) as underappreciated but pivotal. Both succeeded titanic figures, formed unity governments, and delivered historic achievements: Eshkol led in the Six-Day War; Shamir absorbed Soviet immigrants and tamed hyperinflation ([33:47]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Peace is not weakness. It is the highest form of strength.”—Steve Witkoff ([00:56])
• “My heart has not been complete, and it's been a tremendous burden that I felt to see these hostages come home.” — Jared Kushner ([02:56])
• “Ending hell, saving lives worth more than a Nobel Prize.” — Protestor’s sign ([05:24])
• “There is a time to weep and a time to laugh—and we have to do both right now...I know that the country, the nation, Jews all over the world are starving to celebrate and be done with this dark chapter...But we are not done yet. Until they are all home.” — Rachel Goldberg-Polin ([06:37])
• “If you want to understand Israel, you have to understand how locals think…and the most important thing is fear.” — Amit Segal ([12:31], [24:48])
• “Netanyahu is the big organizer of the three tribes…he created it.” — Amit Segal ([30:59])
• “No matter how beautiful the play, it will always end with a tragedy. This is the case for every prime minister.” — Amit Segal quoting Yuval Steinitz ([36:56])

Important Timestamps

• [00:04] Opening, scene-setting, intro to the night’s rallies
• [00:56] Steve Witkoff: speech excerpt
• [02:56] Jared Kushner: speech excerpt
• [05:54] Rachel Goldberg-Polin: speech excerpt
• [08:18] US military coordination, CENTCOM in Gaza
• [12:31] Amit Segal interview begins; story of his October 7 call with Netanyahu
• [15:53] The ‘red phone’ metaphor and leadership nightmares
• [20:07] Differences between US, UK, and Israeli politics; power dynamics
• [24:48] Myths about Israeli right/left; fear vs. economy
• [33:47] Underrated prime ministers: Eshkol and Shamir, tragic ends

Conclusion & Tone

The episode is reflective and insightful, capturing a historic Israeli moment characterized by both celebration and enduring trauma. The conversation is urgent, empathetic, and often candid, focusing on political realities and national psychology often misunderstood by outside observers. Amit Segal’s commentary offers a rare, unvarnished look into the patterns, paradoxes, and personalities that define modern Israel—revealing a nation that lurches between tragedy and resilience, and a political system that both mirrors and amplifies these national characteristics.