Call Me Back - with Dan Senor

Episode: How will Israel Respond to the U.N.? - with Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal

Date: September 25, 2025
Guests: Nadav Eyal, Amit Segal
Main Theme: The impact and implications of the wave of formal recognitions of Palestinian statehood at the UN General Assembly, and how Israel is likely to respond.

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dan Senor is joined by Israeli journalists and political analysts Nadav Eyal and Amit Segal to dissect a critical week at the United Nations: a growing group of Western nations has formally recognized a Palestinian state. The conversation explores the immediate and long-term effects of this diplomatic shift, how it's viewed in Israel, and what Israel's strategic responses may be. The episode also compares various international plans for Gaza’s future, discusses internal Israeli debates, shares personal holiday reflections, and highlights the somber atmosphere in Israel during a time of war and uncertainty.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Wave of Palestinian State Recognition (00:08–07:51)

• Context: Several European and other Western countries have formally recognized a Palestinian state at the UN, joining over 100 nations who have already done so.
• Nadav Eyal's Critique:
  • Eyal expresses frustration that these recognitions appear as "diplomatic virtue signaling" for domestic political benefit rather than genuine support for Palestinian self-determination, arguing this undermines compromise-based solutions:

    "What's really happening, and this makes me mad, is that the French and Keir Starmer in the UK and the Canadians and the Australians, they're just using it for their own domestic political needs and they're churning Palestinian statehood into diplomatic virtue signaling." (00:08)

  • Eyal notes Hamas officials have taken the diplomatic wave as a "victory as a result of October 7th", regardless of attempts by leaders like Macron to frame it otherwise. (05:49)
• Conditionality is Lacking:
  • Many of the major states (France, UK, Canada) have not made their recognitions conditional on Hamas leaving power or hostages being released.
• Immediate Israeli Reactions:
  • Options on the table reportedly include steps like closing foreign consulates in East Jerusalem. (07:01)

2. President Trump’s Speech & The US Role (08:39–11:44)

• Trump’s Position:
  • Donald Trump, at the UN, condemns recognition as a reward for terrorism, reaffirms hostage release as a prerequisite, and takes a hardline stance:

    "This would be a reward for these horrible atrocities... Release the hostages now." (09:11)

• Amit Segal’s Analysis:
  • Segal suggests that Trump’s plans for Gaza are closely coordinated with Israeli officials, essentially presenting US initiatives as Israeli policy rebranded:

    "Every Trump plan to the Middle East is a plan written by Ron Dermer and just wrapped in this shining bright gift package of President Trump." (09:59)

  • Trump’s ‘21-point plan’ for Gaza is seen as giving both Israel and Arab states a workable basis for discussion. (11:16)

3. Competing International Plans for Gaza (11:56–13:29)

• The Trump/Blair/Kushner Plan:
  • Gradual Israeli withdrawal
  • Complete demilitarization of Gaza
  • Hostage release
  • Exclusion of Hamas from post-war governance
  • Unclear/contested role for the Palestinian Authority (PA)
• The French/Macron Plan:
  • Envisions a UN stabilization mission for Gaza (potentially also West Bank)
  • Seen by guests as "dead on arrival" in Israeli political circles:

    "The French plan is as dead as they come, Dan. It's not gonna happen... anything that is French right now is not gonna fly, not with this Israeli government..." (13:29)

  • UN involvement in Gaza is rejected outright, as it's historically empowered Hamas.

4. Who Governs Gaza After Hamas? (13:29–19:05)

• Role for the PA:
  • Israel officially opposes the PA (seen as corrupt and ineffective) returning to Gaza.
  • Limited Palestinian representation may be possible ("figures with affinity" to the PA), to appease Arab partners, but not formal PA governance. (18:09)
  • Historic context: Netanyahu’s past strategy was to keep PA and Hamas separated—partly to weaken the notion of a unified Palestinian entity.

5. Diplomatic Fallout & Israeli Options (20:16–25:11)

• Coordination with the US:
  • Netanyahu seeks to align Israel’s reaction (e.g., consulate closures) with White House approval to ensure strategic unity.
• Potential Diplomatic Steps:
  • Closing of UK and French consulates in East Jerusalem; expected reciprocal expulsions of Israeli diplomats, though not ambassadors. (21:39)
  • The practical significance of these symbolic acts is fiercely debated. Eyal calls the overall development genuinely damaging:

    "Israel is being hit ... we're facing a diplomatic tsunami and people are feeling it... it's going to have repercussions." (24:33)

6. Criticism of Recognition's Timing and Motive (25:16–26:11)

• Eyal’s Caution:
  • Granting statehood recognition following October 7 sends the wrong message; statehood should result from "compromise and negotiations and hard work," not as a post-terror attack gesture. (25:16)
• Virtue Signaling Over Substance:
  • Recognitions are portrayed as Western politicians' attempts to score points domestically, not genuine progress for Palestinians.

7. Operation in Gaza City and Israeli Society’s Mood (27:28–30:20)

• Military Situation:
  • Ground operations are slow and grinding, with personal tragedies mounting and widespread public desire for an end to the fighting.
  • Hostage families are protesting; government faces increasing criticism over war management.
  • Society is divided on whether to continue the war at the cost of hostages' lives or negotiate for their return even if Hamas remains.

    "It's a tie between those who say, you know, get the hostages back, even if Hamas is going to stay there in power or continue the war." (29:18)

• Mood:
  • Rosh Hashanah feels "somber," reflecting widespread pain and uncertainty.

8. Notable Closing Reflections (30:24–32:08)

• Amit Segal:
  • Quotes a prayer for peace over war, expressing hope the coming year will be less fraught:

    "On the countries it would be said, it would be decided which one would go to the sword and which one would go to the peace." (30:24)

• Celebrating 400th Episode:
  • Team reflects on the impact of the podcast in Jewish communities globally.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nadav Eyal on recognition motivations:

  "...they're just using it for their own domestic political needs and they're churning Palestinian statehood into diplomatic virtue signaling." (00:08; 25:16)

• Amit Segal on US-Israel diplomatic alignment:

  "Netanyahu made a decision here that he's first going to be completely on the same page with the White House before he does anything." (20:16)

• Segal on public weariness and the war:

  "Everybody would be very, very happy to just end the war as soon as possible." (28:07)

• Eyal on the somber mood in Israel:

  “Many of the hostage families were spending this hag protesting for their loved ones. A lot of pressure, a lot of criticism of the government..." (28:26)

• Segal’s Rosh Hashanah hope:

  "Let's hope that this year is going to be different." (30:49)

Important Segments with Timestamps

• Intro & Setting the Stage: 00:08–05:40
• Wave of Palestinian Recognition: 05:40–07:51
• Trump’s UN Speech & Analysis: 08:39–11:44
• Discussion of Gaza Plans: 11:56–13:29
• Governance after Hamas: 13:29–19:05
• Diplomatic Consequences & Israeli Response: 20:16–25:11
• Critique of Timing/Motives: 25:16–26:11
• Gaza Ground Operation & Israeli Mood: 27:28–30:20
• Closing Reflections: 30:24–32:08

Style & Tone

The conversation is frank, analytical, and at times sharply critical, but maintains a tenor of realism and mutual respect. The hosts blend personal reflections (holiday anecdotes, mood in Israel) with political analysis and direct reporting from governmental sources. The somber, searching tone reflects the tense moment in Israeli and Jewish history, while the occasional joke and warm exchanges keep it relatable.

Summary for New Listeners

If you missed this episode, you'll come away with a nuanced understanding of how Israel’s political class views the recent international recognition of a Palestinian state—a move regarded in Israel as not just symbolic but potentially destabilizing and rewarding for Hamas. The podcast highlights the internal debates over Israel’s potential responses, skepticism towards UN or French-led plans, and the strategic importance of remaining closely aligned with the US. The latter half places all this in the context of a war-weary Israeli public, the mounting pain of hostage families, and the hopes for a peaceful new year despite grim realities.