Podcast Summary: Call Me Back - with Dan Senor Episode: Is the Real Story in Syria Actually Turkey?
Release Date: July 24, 2025
Host/Producer: Ark Media
Guests:

• Charles Lister, Senior Fellow and Director of the Syria Initiative at the Middle East Institute
• Chai Eitan Cohen Yanorochuk, Turkish-Israeli Scholar at Tel Aviv University

Introduction

In this episode of Call Me Back, host Dan Senor and co-host Ilan Benatar delve into the escalating tensions in Syria, particularly examining whether Turkey plays a more pivotal role than traditionally perceived. The discussion is framed against the backdrop of recent Israeli military actions in Damascus and the resulting geopolitical implications.

Background of the Conflict

Ilan Benatar sets the stage by recounting the recent escalation in Syria:

“Last week we witnessed the eruption of violent aggression on behalf of the Syrian government and local Bedouin tribes against Syria's southern Druze community, leaving more than 1,400 people dead.”
(00:54)

Charles Lister elaborates on the origins of the conflict:

“The first trigger, which came on the night of July 11th when a Druze man... was taken out of his vehicle, beaten, and his truck and all the vegetables were stolen. Sounds from the outset like a relatively minor incident...”
(05:15)

He explains how this localized conflict spiraled into a broader confrontation involving the Syrian government and Israeli military intervention, exacerbating pre-existing tensions between the Druze and Bedouin communities over land disputes and smuggling routes.

Role of the Druze and Bedouin Communities

Understanding the key players is essential. Charles Lister provides a primer on the Druze and Kurds:

“The Druze of Syria have a presence in a number of different areas... their real heaviest presence is in the governor of Sweda... The Kurds of Syria... have historically always been detached from the state, given no rights as citizens...”
(10:12)

Their historical grievances and political alignments add layers of complexity to the current conflict, making it more than just a local dispute.

Turkey’s Involvement and Ambitions

The conversation shifts to Turkey's role in the Syrian conflict. Dan Senor asserts:

“After the fall of the Syrian dictator Bashar Al Assad, Turkey has turned into the new patron of Syria.”
(11:31)

Khai Eitan Cohen Yanorochuk discusses Erdogan's strategic interests, highlighting Turkey's neo-Ottoman ambitions and its efforts to reassert influence in the region. This includes military support and attempts to shape the new Syrian government, raising concerns in Israel about Turkey’s expanding footprint near its borders.

Charles Lister counters by emphasizing other regional powers' influence, particularly Saudi Arabia and Qatar:

“The transitional government knows that probably its biggest existential threat... is being perceived as a Turkish puppet. Which is why they have made the decision to invest far more with the Gulf states...”
(28:53 - 31:10)

He argues that while Turkey is influential, the Gulf states are the primary financial and strategic backers of Syria's reconstruction and political stabilization.

Israeli Military Actions and US Response

Ilan Benatar outlines Israel's recent military operations:

“Earlier this week, the IDF began operations in the central Gazan city of Deir El Balak... Israel launched a series of strikes against military facilities in Damascus, including the Syrian Defense Ministry, prompting widespread global criticism.”
(00:54 - 05:04)

Charles Lister critiques these actions:

“Israel's intervention added fuel to the fire... created a zero-sum dynamic whereby every side... embraced a fight to define the future of Sweda.”
(38:23)

He suggests that such interventions may have unintended consequences, escalating localized conflicts into broader regional instability.

The US response is described as one of shock and frustration, particularly because Israel's actions contradict the US's efforts to stabilize Syria through the transitional government.

Ceasefire and Diplomatic Efforts

After intense conflict, all sides agreed to a ceasefire as of the Saturday following the episode's timeline. Chai Eitan Cohen Yanorochuk provides insights into the behind-the-scenes negotiations:

“The only reason why that meeting happened was because of Turkish mediation... the first reason why the transitional government in Damascus originally initiated a line of dialogue with Israel is because of Turkey.”
(19:35)

Despite the ceasefire, reports of continued violence persist, especially against the Druze community, indicating fragile and incomplete peace.

Leadership in Syria: Ahmed Al Shara

The episode scrutinizes Syria's new president, Ahmed Al Shara (formerly Al Julani). Charles Lister outlines his controversial background:

“He traveled to Iraq to fight the American invasion... built himself up in Al Qaeda in Iraq... consolidated his control of a small corner of northwestern Syria...”
(23:53 - 27:13)

Despite his troubled past, Al Shara has gained international support for stabilizing Syria. However, his perceived connections with Turkey and vested interests pose challenges to Syria's sovereignty and regional stability.

Israel’s Strategy Towards Turkey

The dialogue turns to Israel’s approach in balancing its relationship with Turkey amidst rising tensions. Dan Senor emphasizes the importance of maintaining a cordial relationship:

“We are not planning to hit Turkey. Turkey is still considered as a friendly country... Israel should do everything possible to preserve its relationship with Turkey.”
(35:42)

Conversely, Charles Lister warns of Turkey’s expanding military presence in Syria, which could directly threaten Israeli security:

“The ambition is unquestionably there... The transitional government knows that probably its biggest existential threat... is being perceived as a Turkish puppet.”
(32:04 - 34:14)

This underscores the delicate balance Israel must maintain to safeguard its interests without provoking Turkey into open hostility.

Conclusion: Was the Intervention a Mistake?

Returning to the episode's central question, Charles Lister opines that Israel’s intervention in Damascus was a mistake:

“Yes, it was a mistake. I would also go as far as to say intervening full stop was a mistake. Unquestionably, Israel's intervention added fuel to the fire...”
(38:23)

He argues that such actions transform manageable local disputes into larger geopolitical crises, exacerbating sectarian tensions and complicating diplomatic efforts.

Ilan Benatar counters by highlighting Israel’s changed security doctrine post-October 7th, suggesting that proactive measures are now necessary to prevent threats from close proximity:

“Israel’s no longer in the business of trying to deter threats... Israel removes them.”
(39:10)

Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with a recognition of the intricate web of alliances and enmities in the region. While Turkey plays a significant role, the influence of Gulf states and the precarious position of Syria's transitional government complicate the landscape. The guests advocate for nuanced diplomatic strategies over military interventions to foster stability and trust among the conflicting parties.

Notable Quotes

• Charles Lister (05:15): “The Syrian government's intervention... created a pressure play to try to send the message that stability requires government intervention.”

• Dan Senor (11:31): “After the fall of Assad, Turkey has turned into the new patron of Syria.”

• Charles Lister (38:23): “Israel's intervention... was a mistake. It added fuel to the fire of a highly localized conflict.”

• Ilan Benatar (39:10): “In a post-October 7th world... Israel removes threats rather than just deterring them.”

Key Takeaways

1. Localized Conflict Escalation: A minor incident between Druze and Bedouin communities in Sweda spiraled into a broader conflict involving the Syrian government and Israeli military intervention.

2. Turkey's Ambitious Role: Turkey seeks to regain influence in Syria through military support and political maneuvering, challenging existing regional powers like Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

3. Israel’s Security Strategy: Post-October 7th, Israel adopts a more proactive stance in neutralizing threats near its borders, leading to increased military actions in neighboring regions.

4. Complex Diplomatic Landscape: The interplay between Turkey, Gulf states, the Syrian transitional government, and Israel creates a multifaceted geopolitical environment that complicates efforts towards regional stability.

5. Consequences of Intervention: Military interventions by external powers can exacerbate local conflicts, leading to increased violence and undermining diplomatic resolutions.

Conclusion

This episode of Call Me Back provides an in-depth analysis of the recent conflict dynamics in Syria, highlighting Turkey's emerging role and its implications for Israel and regional stability. Through expert insights, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the intricate and often contentious relationships shaping the Middle East today.