Call Me Back - with Dan Senor: Israel's Withdrawal from Gaza, 20 Years Later (Part 2)
Host: Ark Media
Guests: Amit Segal, Asi Shariv
Release Date: August 15, 2025

Introduction

In the second part of their in-depth discussion on Israel's 2005 withdrawal from Gaza, Ark Media's Dan Senor continues the conversation with Amit Segal, a seasoned journalist, and Asi Shariv, a former senior advisor to former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. This episode delves into the unfolding of the disengagement plan, its long-term ramifications, and parallels with contemporary geopolitical challenges facing Israel.

The Knesset Vote and Sharon’s Leadership

The episode opens with a recounting of the pivotal day when Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan faced what seemed like inevitable defeat in the Knesset. Contrary to expectations, the plan passed, marking a significant turning point in Israeli politics.

• Amit Segal reminisces, "The sense was that the disengagement plan is about to die in a few minutes. And then the vote began." [02:03]

• Asi Shariv describes Sharon's demeanor during the tense hours leading up to the vote: "He went up to the floor and stayed there for three hours, refusing to speak to no one. He just sat there playing with his hands and wanted everybody to watch him." [02:51]

The unexpected support from key figures, including then-Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, underscored the plan's controversial yet eventual acceptance.

Aftermath of the Disengagement

Post-vote, Sharon's emotional response contrasted starkly with the political turmoil surrounding him. While Sharon celebrated the political victory, the human toll—particularly on the settlers—began to surface.

• Amit Segal reflects, "Some of his best friends were settlers. They never came back to being the same as they used to." [07:13]

• Asi Shariv adds a personal anecdote about Sharon's interaction: "He told me and another assistant, we were really young... 'Never yield to blackmail. Never.'" [04:55]

Impact on Israeli Politics and Netanyahu’s Role

Netanyahu's political trajectory post-disengagement is scrutinized, highlighting the economic challenges and shifts in voter sentiment that influenced his standing within the Likud party.

• Amit Segal explains, "His voters were very, very angry. So Netanyahu, at the end of July 2005, two weeks before the disengagement, he sees a disaster at sight." [07:18]

• Asi Shariv speculates on a counterfactual scenario: "He would have been a prime minister in 2006 because Sharon fell to his illness... When Sharon fell, Netanyahu could have stepped up." [08:46]

Settlers' Experience and Long-Term Consequences

The swift evacuation of 8,000 settlers from Gaza is examined, emphasizing the psychological and societal impacts on this community.

• Amit Segal shares his observations: "It was the swiftest evacuation ever. 8,000 people were evacuated in five business days, not even a week." [10:09]

• Asi Shariv counters Amit's perspective on settler cooperation: "80% of the settlers who were evacuated believed until the day of the evacuation that it's not going to happen... their leaders told them, 'don't cooperate, because we need to make sure that this thing will never happen again.'" [12:41]

Evaluating Sharon’s Decisions and Security Implications

A critical analysis of Sharon's decision to withdraw from Gaza, juxtaposed with the rise of Hamas as a security threat, forms a core part of the discussion.

• Amit Segal argues, "The outcome, maybe not 1,200 victims in one day, but of Gaza becoming an international terror hub, was inevitable once Israel left." [16:18]

• Asi Shariv expresses skepticism about any prime minister's ability to alter Gaza's trajectory post-disengagement: "If Netanyahu would have been the prime minister or Ahmed Tibi would have been the prime minister, it was the same outcome, which I cannot accept." [20:00]

Comparisons to Contemporary Conflicts

Drawing parallels between the 2005 disengagement and current military conflicts, the guests explore recurring patterns in Israeli defense strategies and negotiations with terrorist organizations.

• Dan Senor highlights the echo of past strategies in current debates: "Only this time we'll have the hostages. And when I hear that argument, it is eerily reminiscent to what Sharon was saying in 2004 and 2005." [23:03]

• Amit Segal reinforces the challenges of re-entering Gaza: "It wasn't so simple for Israel to go back in the international legitimacy, the US support... once Hamas took over in Gaza, there's no mitigating it." [20:25]

Concluding Insights

The episode wraps up with reflections on the disengagement's legacy, the enduring divisions within Israeli society, and the persistent security dilemmas that continue to shape Israel's policies and international standing.

• Asi Shariv envisions a future without Gaza settlements: "I think in five years, Israel will not be in Gaza and there will be no settlements in Gaza." [21:42]

• Amit Segal contends that the disengagement's failure was a pivotal moment that set the stage for subsequent conflicts: "The disengagement was a security thing. The idea was, we can actually divorce Gaza once and for all and just forget about it. And it failed." [14:26]

Key Takeaways

• Political Maneuvering: The passage of the disengagement plan, despite initial opposition, highlights the complex interplay of leadership, party dynamics, and public sentiment in Israeli politics.

• Human Impact: The rapid evacuation had profound effects on the settlers, both emotionally and socially, with long-term implications for community cohesion and identity.

• Security Landscape: The withdrawal from Gaza is critically linked to the rise of Hamas and enduring security challenges, suggesting that disengagement alone was insufficient in addressing underlying threats.

• Historical Parallels: Current debates on military strategy and negotiations mirror the contentious discussions surrounding the 2005 disengagement, underscoring recurring strategic dilemmas.

Notable Quotes

• Asi Shariv: "Never yield to blackmail. Never." [04:55]

• Amit Segal: "The disengagement was a security thing. The idea was, we can actually divorce Gaza once and for all and just forget about it. And it failed." [14:26]

• Dan Senor: "Only this time we'll have the hostages... it is eerily reminiscent to what Sharon was saying in 2004 and 2005." [23:03]

This comprehensive analysis offers listeners a nuanced understanding of a defining moment in Israeli history, its unfolding, and its enduring consequences two decades later.