Podcast Summary: "PART 1: What Will Be Israel's Next Big Story?"

Podcast: Call Me Back — with Dan Senor
Host: Dan Senor (Ark Media)
Guests: Dr. Donniel Hartman, Yossi Klein Halevi
Date: November 13, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the deep divisions and evolving narratives shaping Israeli society, especially in the wake of recent national and political upheavals. Dan Senor is joined by Daniil Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi—thought leaders from the Shalom Hartman Institute and co-hosts of "For Heaven’s Sake"—to discuss whether a new unifying story can emerge to hold Israeli society together. The conversation dives into Israel’s historical unifying narratives, the proliferation of identity-based “core stories,” the shifting political landscape, and the hopes (and challenges) for the country’s future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Israeli Narratives: The Search for Cohesion

Timestamps: 06:17–12:55

• Historic Pillars:
  • In-gathering of the Exiles: Bringing Jews “home” to Israel was a central founding narrative.
  • Self-Defense: The practical need to secure Jewish survival.
• Attempts at Ideological Leadership:
  • Labor Zionism/Kibbutz Movement: Once portrayed as the “authentic” Israeli identity; secular, socialist, Ashkenazi-led.
  • Religious Zionists: Recast pioneering spirit into the settlement movement post-1973 Yom Kippur War.
• Outcome: Both ideological attempts at unity ultimately failed, as they spoke to only part of society.

  “Each...presumed to refashion Israeli-ness in their image...but both of those attempts failed because they spoke only to half the country and...alienated the other half.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (12:53)

2. Israel’s Unique Polarization: More Than Two Sides

Timestamps: 13:36–17:23

• Five Competing “Core Stories” (per Daniil Hartman):
  1. Liberal Jewish democracy—emphasizing human rights, rooted in the Declaration of Independence.
  2. Security-first nationalism—war/defense trumps all else (the Netanyahu narrative).
  3. Messianic vision—Israel’s purpose is to fulfill religious prophecy.
  4. Ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) approach—security comes through Torah study, theologically driven.
  5. Arab/Palestinian Israeli—aspiring for a liberal democracy without Jewish ethnic priority.
• Fragmentation: Instead of two poles, Israel has five competing identity-driven narratives.

  “Polarization assumes there are two polarities. In Israel, we try to outdo ourselves and there are five.” — Daniil Hartman (13:44)

3. Political Shifts and the Rightward Drift

Timestamps: 17:23–28:07

• Erosion of Traditional Blocs:
  • The political mainstream (the “60% consensus” of center-right and center-left, historically anchored by Likud and Labor) is fractured.
• Rise of the Radical and Messianic Right:
  • Far-right elements have entered government, something unthinkable in earlier decades.
• Societal Schism Is More Dangerous in Israel:

  “The difference, though, is that we have a much smaller margin for error...When we tear ourselves apart...the consequences are immediate. We end up in a war because our enemies perceive weakness.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (17:50)

  • Israeli divisions play out more direly than in other democracies, with war as a direct repercussion.

4. The Death of the Oslo Narrative

Timestamps: 28:07–29:57

• Generational Shift:
  • Most young Israelis are unfamiliar with or unmoved by discussions of the two-state solution or Oslo Accords—debates that occupied an earlier generation.
  • Politicians and public discourse have “moved on” from the peace process paradigm.

  “You now have a whole generation of Israelis who...don’t even know what you’re talking about” when you mention the two-state solution. — Daniil Hartman (08:00, repeated at 28:53)

5. Jewish vs. Israeli Identity: A Fading Divide

Timestamps: 31:36–37:29

• Origins of the Schism:
  • Early Zionism defined “Israeli” vs. “Jewish” as a split between secular nationhood and religious tradition.
• Evolving Identity:
  • Post-1990s, traditional/secular lines blur—many secular Israelis observe Jewish rituals and holidays.
  • Political expressions of this Jewish identity are limited; secular Jews are “profoundly Jewish,” but lack institutional leadership or formal representation.

  “If there is a dichotomy...[it’s] when Judaism means Orthodoxy. Israelis don’t want a theological, faith-based identity, but they have a profoundly Jewish identity and it permeates...the country.” — Daniil Hartman (36:04)

6. Who Could Lead a New National Story?

Timestamps: 37:29–39:23

• Naftali Bennett as Bridge Builder:
  • Bennett’s personal and political background crosses societal “fault lines”: religious, embraces secular identity, tech sector ties, and brought Arab party into government.
  • Seen as pragmatic, “inclusive,” and embodying a possible unifying narrative.

  “If Bennett forms a party...with former IDF commander in chief Eisenkot, they will be by far the largest party...he represents the best hope we have.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (39:23)

7. The Next “Big Story”: Revitalizing the Ingathering

Timestamps: 41:36–45:22

• Analogy with Yom Kippur War Aftermath:
  • Unlike post-1973 (which sharpened ideological divides), post-October 7th Israel is witnessing young people seeking consensus and to “blur the distinctions.”
• A New Ingathering:
  • Embracing, rather than just managing, Israel’s contradictions may be the way forward.

  “The next phase of ingathering...needs to be...embracing the contradictions of the Jewish people. This is who we are. After 2,000 years of wandering the world, we came back with the world’s ideas.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (44:36)

8. What Gives Hope for Israel’s Future?

Timestamps: 45:22–48:43

• Daniil Hartman:
  • The “density of talent,” the vibrance and spirit of Israeli youth, and the collective realization post-October 7th that “existence is not self-evident.”

  “There isn’t a sense of powerlessness now. One of the challenges is how does this density of talent then translate itself in the political realm.” — Daniil Hartman (45:31)

• Yossi Klein Halevi:
  • Israel’s “resilience and love.” Pivoting from deep internal division on October 6th to “one of the peak moments of Israeli cohesiveness” on October 8th.
  • Deep patriotism is a strength—but also heightens tensions due to the passionate engagement of all sides.

  “There is no more patriotic citizenry in the West, for certain, than Israelis...If we could...learn to respect each other’s love for this country...What a resource for Israeli society.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (46:43)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Public Discourse:

  “We’re able to model a warm and passionate disagreement...how rare that is in the current culture, both in Israel and the U.S.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (07:09)

• On Israeli Political Identity:

  “The Likud used to be the foundation of this core 60%...What has changed is right now there isn’t a 60%.” — Daniil Hartman (22:48)

• The New Fault Line:

  “There is the democratic right and the anti-democratic right. And the Likud is wavering. The Likud is no longer firmly in the camp of the democratic right as it was until a few years ago.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (26:52)

Key Timestamps for Segments

• Unifying Narratives in Israel’s History: 06:17–12:55
• Five Competing Stories Explained: 13:36–17:23
• Rightward Drift & Political Fractures: 22:48–28:07
• Death of the Oslo “Peace” Paradigm: 28:07–29:57
• Jewish vs. Israeli Identity: 31:36–37:29
• National Storytellers & New Elites: 37:29–39:23
• The Next Big Story—Revival or Unraveling?: 41:36–45:22
• Sources of Hope: 45:22–48:43

Tone and Language

The conversation is intellectually vibrant and passionate, marked by respectful disagreement and insight rooted in both lived experience and scholarship. The guests speak with candor, self-reflection, and urgency about the challenges—and opportunities—in reimagining Israel’s future.

For listeners new to these issues, this episode offers an accessible but profound window into the dilemmas facing Israel—and the search for a narrative that might unite, rather than divide, its people.