Call Me Back - Inside Mossad’s Shadow War with Iran (Part 2)

Podcast: Call Me Back with Dan Senor
Episode: Part 2 - Inside Mossad’s Shadow War with Iran (Sneak Peek)
Date: March 28, 2026
Host: Dan Senor
Guest: Ronen Bergman (acclaimed Israeli journalist, intelligence expert)

Episode Overview

This episode is the second installment of a series delving into Israel’s clandestine conflict with Iran, focusing on Mossad's operations and the dilemmas facing Israel’s top leaders. Ronen Bergman joins Dan Senor for a candid, "off-camera" discussion about the high-stakes intelligence race with Iran, the revelations that shook Israeli policymakers, and the tense dynamics between the U.S. and Israeli leadership. The conversation also explores the complex relationships and rivalries at the top levels of Israel’s security and political apparatus, setting up the most critical period in the years-long campaign to stop Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The MI6 Revelation that Changed Everything

(00:37, 17:08, 24:08)

• In early 2008, MI6 revealed to Mossad and Israeli military intelligence that they had a spy, Alireza Akbari, deep inside Iran’s nuclear project.
• Akbari informed the British that Iran was secretly building a uranium enrichment facility at Fordu, near Qom, hidden underground for military-grade enrichment.
• This intelligence was a shock to both Israeli and U.S. intelligence, marking a pivotal moment of realization about the limits of even the best intelligence-gathering methods.
• Quote:
  “He said, we have a human source, an agent, a spy deep inside the highest ranks of the Iranian nuclear project… the Iranians are building a new secret enrichment facility in a place called Fordu, not far away from the holy city of Qom, underneath the mountain, for thousands of centrifuges… That was a shock.” (Bergman, 00:37-01:41)

2. The U.S.-Israel Tension Over a Strike on Iran

(04:17–08:15)

• The Bush Administration (2008): Israeli leadership (Barak, Olmert) pushed the U.S. for military supplies, hoping to secure options for a potential strike on Iran.
  President Bush was wary, directly stating,
  Quote:
  “I know what you want this for. You want this in order to be able to have a strike in Iran. And I am not going to give that to you. I said no, and no is a no.” (Bergman relaying Bush, 04:38–05:10)
• The Obama Administration (2011): Obama promised support and security guarantees to Israel, but Defense Minister Barak distrusted U.S. willingness to act in Israel’s interests if push came to shove.
  Quote:
  “I believe you, Mr. President…but I also know that when time comes, you will follow American interest and not necessarily Israeli interest at that time. And this is a risk I cannot take.” (Barak, via Bergman, 07:44–08:08)

3. Israeli Security Establishment’s Own Disagreement

(08:15–10:51)

• Not only was there tension with Washington, but sharp debate within Israel’s own leadership.
• Many defense leaders, shaped by the trauma and lessons of the 2006 Lebanon War, were skeptical about a solo Israeli strike or doubted Mossad’s sabotage campaign could alone stop Iran.
• Barak referenced the failed sabotage-only approach to Iraq’s nuclear program as a warning about relying too much on covert sabotage.

4. Personal and Professional Rivalries: Barak vs. Dagan

(10:51–13:35)

• Deep-seated tension existed between Ehud Barak (Defense Minister, legendary commando) and Meir Dagan (Mossad chief, outsider to Israel’s elite units).
• This rivalry was both personal—stemming from military backgrounds—and professional, creating friction over how to handle Iran.
• Quote (on Dagan’s view of Barak and Netanyahu):
  “Bibi [Netanyahu]...has a certain quality that is similar to Ehud Barak. Both of them think they are geniuses and the world does not understand them.” (Dagan, via Bergman, 12:56–13:10)
• Dagan was also critical of their motivations, hinting that they sometimes privileged personal interest over national interest.

5. Netanyahu & Barak: From Rivals to Allies

(13:35–16:22)

• Barak and Netanyahu both emerged from Sayeret Matkal, Israel’s elite special forces, but their history as commander (Barak) and young soldier (Netanyahu), then political rivals (Barak once defeated Netanyahu for Prime Minister), added complexity to their working relationship.
• Despite their political rivalry and different party affiliations, Netanyahu chose to keep Barak as Defense Minister for his security expertise and trust in military matters.

6. Akbari’s Double Life and Tragic End

(19:16–23:41)

• Akbari, a highly devout, senior IRGC commander and later Deputy Defense Minister, was turned by MI6 after years of effort.
• He played a key role as an asset, leaking secrets about Fordu and other projects. When outed (reportedly due to Russian intelligence tip in 2019), he was arrested, tortured, forced to run disinformation to MI6, and ultimately executed in 2023.
• His burial was lonely and symbolic of his double life and tragic betrayal.
• Quote:
  “He was taken into custody, horribly, horribly tortured… He is sentenced to death and in 2023 he’s executed by hanging. He’s buried in an unmarked spot… but nobody comes [to his memorial].” (Bergman, 22:12–23:41)

7. Impact of Fordu Revelation on Israeli Planning

(24:08–25:30)

• The discovery of Fordu was a psychological and strategic earthquake for Israeli defense planning.
• Shocked by the intelligence failure, Israeli leaders feared what other secrets they might be missing.
• The depth and fortification of Fordu forced Israel to confront the potential ineffectiveness of an airstrike. Planners now had to consider riskier operations, possibly even ground raids, to ensure the destruction of Iran’s critical nuclear nodes.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the gut-punch of the Fordu revelation:
  “Everybody... recalls the same kind of feeling, which is… like a slap in the face, like real earthquake, real shattering of their confidence.” (Bergman, 24:08)

• On the Obama era’s “strategic trust deficit”:
  “I believe you that what you say is totally sincere… But I also know that when time comes, you will follow American interest... and this is a risk I cannot take.” (Barak, via Bergman, 07:42–08:08)

• On the resonance of old rivalries:
  “I think that to put this in a very simple term, they didn’t like each other—hated each other is more like it.” (Bergman & Senor, 10:55–11:02)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:37, 17:08, 24:08] – MI6 brings shock intelligence on Fordu via Akbari
• [04:17–08:15] – US-Israel tension: Bush and Obama era perspectives on Iran strike
• [08:15–10:51] – Disagreement inside Israeli defense establishment
• [10:51–13:35] – Barak and Dagan’s complicated relationship
• [13:56–16:22] – Netanyahu and Barak’s unique alliance despite rivalry
• [19:16–23:41] – Alireza Akbari’s story: from insider to executed spy
• [24:08–25:30] – How Fordu changed Israeli planning

Summary

This episode provides a gripping, behind-the-scenes look at Israel’s shadow conflict with Iran, offering rare insight into both the external and internal debates that have defined its strategy. The emotional and political stakes are made real through personal stories, leadership rivalries, and the tragic fate of agents like Akbari. For listeners, it’s a compelling account of how intelligence, trust, and strategic uncertainty can shape historical outcomes.