Call Me Back – with Dan Senor

Episode: "Reclaiming the Jewish Story" with Sarah Hurwitz

Date: September 8, 2025
Theme: Explores the challenges and dilemmas facing Jews and Israelis today, how antisemitism shapes Jewish identity, and how Jews can reclaim and normalize their own story, particularly for younger generations.

Overview

In this episode, Dan Senor sits down with Sarah Hurwitz, former White House speechwriter and author of the new book As a Jew: Reclaiming Our Story from Those Who Blame, Shame, and Try to Erase Us. Together, they examine how Jewish identity is being shaped and challenged—from college campuses to the broader culture—including the persistent threat of antisemitism, misunderstandings about Israel, and the need for Jews to reclaim their tradition in meaningful and informed ways. The episode also delves into the pitfalls of exceptionalizing Israel, the social pressure on Jews to distance themselves from Zionism, and how Jewish tradition itself offers vital, countercultural wisdom for our time.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Normalizing Israel and Jewish Identity

Timestamp: 00:04–01:19 | 28:57–30:39

• Sarah Hurwitz opens with a provocative take:

  “I'm gonna say something shocking and wild. [Israel is] a country. It was founded like so many other countries in the mid 20th century, in war, partition, in ways that were problematic in many ways… but I think what struck me is that so often we educate our young people to think that Israel is exceptional… but it's actually completely unexceptional in its founding.” (A, 00:05 & 28:57)

• She argues that “exceptionalizing” Israel harms young Jews, who are unprepared for criticism:

  “We have done a huge disservice to our young people when we have failed to educate them about how Israel is a country… Those same facts apply to these other, many, many countries.” (A, 00:37)

• Senor links this to education:

  “At my kids Jewish day school, there's a class called Dual Narratives… they study perspectives from both the Israeli and Palestinian sides... it's important not necessarily to reconcile them, but to understand them.” (B, 30:39)

2. The "Thin" Jewish Identity and the Dangers of Minimal Engagement

Timestamp: 07:33–12:55

• Hurwitz describes her former Jewish identity as “three boring holidays and one fun one (Hanukkah)… and the Holocaust,” admitting to vague “cultural” and “ethnic” claims that lacked substance. (A, 07:33)
• She critiques the thinness of “cultural Judaism”:

  “Cultural Judaism isn't all that helpful when your spouse dies, or you're wrestling with a difficult ethical decision, or you're feeling lonely... Jewish mother jokes are of limited use when encountering the most serious challenges of being human.” (B quoting A, 11:33)

• She points out that a lack of grounding leaves Jews defenseless against antisemitism:

  “Judaism as an ethnic joke kind of identity... leaves you defenseless against so much of the Jew hatred we're seeing today.” (A, 12:16)

3. Christian Framing, Assimilation, and Historical Amnesia

Timestamp: 13:06–15:39

• Hurwitz’s training as a hospital chaplain highlighted how American Jews often frame their spirituality in Christian terms—missing the true nature of Jewish tradition:

  “We define spirituality as transcending the body for a heavenly spirit realm. Not a central Jewish idea. That’s more Christian.” (A, 13:16)

• The postwar Jewish push for assimilation led to “erasing aspects of ourselves and our traditions” to escape persecution and access modernity. (A, 15:11)

4. The New Campus Antisemitism

Timestamp: 15:50–20:32

• Hurwitz, after visiting 27 college campuses post-October 7, describes Jewish students’ pressure to entirely reject Israel and Zionism in order to be accepted:

  “Israel had been put into the same bucket as the KKK and the Nazi Party… These poor Jewish students were saying, ‘Wait, I disagree with the occupation, but I still care about Israel!’ But: ‘No, it cuts off all conversation.’” (A, 15:54)

• She warns against minimizing what's happening:

  “I get a lot of pushback, almost gaslighting... ‘Come on Sarah, it's not as bad as you say.’ But when you're hearing things like ‘from water to water, Palestine should be Arab’, or ‘Israelis are Nazis’—those are vile, racist, eliminationist, disgusting things to say.” (A, 16:46)

• Senor and Hurwitz discuss the “conversionist” form of antisemitism:

  “There are Jews who are now anti-Zionist... the conversion demand today is, convert to being an anti-Zionist, reject your ancestral homeland.” (A, 18:54)

5. Historical Precedents: The Weaponization of Shame

Timestamp: 23:20–24:26

• Hurwitz cites Dara Horn’s writing about the Yevseksia (Jewish section of the Soviet Communist Party):

  “They recruited Jews to help stamp out Jewish tradition... This is the weaponization of shame. You're made to feel deeply ashamed about your disgustingness, so you start to reject your own traditions.” (A, 23:20)

• She warns that, historically, when Jews thought they could belong by shedding religion, ethnicity, or “Jewishness,” the demand always escalated ("the upgrade"). (A, 20:32)

6. Land, Colonialism, and the Category Error

Timestamp: 24:26–31:58

• Jewish connection to Israel is deeply woven into tradition—from ritual objects to holidays.
• Hurwitz deconstructs the “colonialist” narrative:

  “The idea of a colony is that it's a colony of an empire or home state... Jews bought the land, and more importantly, had nowhere to return to. Jews have no empire except Israel. It's a category error.” (A, 31:58)

• The “Zionism = occupation = support for far-right policy” is a false dichotomy; Hurwitz differentiates loving Israel from supporting its government:

  “You can love a country, be connected to it… and be appalled by its current leadership… That is not hard.” (A, 34:59)

7. Responding to Shame and Doubt

Timestamp: 25:14–28:57

• Hurwitz draws an analogy to victim-blaming in discussions of sexual assault, to illustrate how conversations about Israel shame Jews for connection to Israel, even before policy is discussed.
• She notes the psychological toll on Jewish students:

  “There’s this sense that Israel is somehow just the original sin of the world’s existence.” (A, 25:14)

• Internal doubt:

  “Maybe the whole world is right… It’s easy to gaslight yourself and say, I must be wrong. But the blood libel shows the majority can be wrong.” (B, 26:11 quoting Hurwitz)

8. Jewish Wisdom as a Countercultural Antidote

Timestamp: 41:08–44:17

• Hurwitz celebrates Judaism’s “countercultural” wisdom:

  “There are so many ways in which Judaism is so wildly countercultural… Jewish law says that even if you have no intention of buying anything, don't ask the shopkeeper the price—don't waste their time. If you loan someone money, avoid them if they're struggling so you don't embarrass them. The details are designed to inculcate an exquisite sensitivity to the dignity of every person.” (A, 41:08)

• Critiques Western culture’s avoidance of mortality and suffering, contrasting it with Jewish practices of sitting Shiva, preparing bodies for burial, and community support:

  “Modern society is so repulsed by death, aging, grief… What Judaism says is, you run right up close to that, you accompany people through it. That’s so counter to modern life.” (A, 43:08)

9. Antisemitism—Right and Left

Timestamp: 38:41–40:34

• Hurwitz insists antisemitism is not just a left-wing phenomenon:

  “If you think there are sides here, you are very confused... There’s kind of one thing... The leap between ‘elites’ and ‘Jews’ is like roughly a millimeter... The horseshoe is meeting and it is taking the shape of a noose.” (A, 38:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jewish students and campus antisemitism:

  “The majority is deciding how black students should be black. Really? You’d be okay with that?… When you're in the upgrade [of antisemitism], it's very hard to see it clearly.” (A, 21:05)

• On denying Israel’s right to exist:

  “If Jews had been colonialists, they would have given up and returned to their home empire long ago.” (A, 31:44)

• On reclaiming Jewish identity:

  “Jewish students on campuses... really learn to cite facts, to think critically, to cite arguments. It is a very painful way to get an education, but they are getting it.” (A, 27:27)

• On internal and external criticism:

  “You can love a country, be connected to it… and be appalled by its current leadership. That is not hard.” (A, 34:59)

• On the future and Jewish continuity:

  “We ran that experiment of Jewish statelessness for 2,000 years. It went poorly… They’re not your coreligionists, they’re your siblings.” (A, 34:05)

• On the universalizing temptation:

  “Antisemitism is the idea that Jews are the one thing standing in the way of the redemption of the world… this stuff is happening on both the right and the left…” (A, 39:10)

• On Jewish tradition’s sharp moral vision:

  “Judaism is making your moral vision sharper and sharper to narrow down to the particular individual, to see them in all their humanity.” (A, 41:53)

Important Timestamps

• 00:04–01:19: Hurwitz opens with the “normalization” argument for Israel.
• 07:33–12:16: Hurwitz describes her early “thin” Jewish identity and critiques of cultural Judaism.
• 13:06–15:39: Discussion of chaplaincy training and the Christianizing of Jewish spirituality.
• 15:50–20:32: Hurwitz on the dire state of antisemitism on college campuses.
• 23:20–24:26: Historical precedent—Yevseksia and internalized shame.
• 25:14–28:57: Hurwitz likens shaming of Jews re: Israel to misogynistic “short skirt” victim-blaming.
• 31:58–34:59: Hurwitz on colonialist narrative and loving Israel while criticizing its politics.
• 38:41–40:34: Both left and right antisemitism; “horseshoe” theory.
• 41:08–44:17: Jewish wisdom as antidote to societal atomization and moral myopia.

Tone & Final Thoughts

The conversation is candid, forthright, sometimes emotional, and unapologetically Jewish in its commitment to critical engagement both within and outside the community. Hurwitz pushes listeners to recognize that reclaiming the Jewish story is a communal, spiritual, and intellectual project—necessary for withstanding external pressures and reinvigorating Jewish life. The episode is especially valuable for those seeking clarity and inspiration for navigating Jewish identity in an era of global and campus polarization.

[Sarah Hurwitz’s book, and event info referenced in this episode, are linked in the show notes.]