Podcast Summary: "Call Me Back – with Dan Senor"

Sneak Peek: Inside Call Me Back with Dr. Tal Becker

Date: December 13, 2025
Host: Dan Senor (Ark Media)
Guest: Dr. Tal Becker

Episode Overview

This episode offers a members-only “sneak peek” into an in-depth conversation between Dan Senor and Dr. Tal Becker, a prominent Israeli legal advisor, scholar, and diplomat. Becker fields pressing questions from the podcast’s community, focusing on Israel’s recent conflicts, national unity, the struggle over narrative and legitimacy, inter-Jewish divisions, and the terminology used to describe extremist violence. The conversation is candid, nuanced, and explores both strategic and societal dilemmas for Israel and Jewish people worldwide.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Victory in Israel’s Recent Wars

(Start – 07:43)

• Becker pushes back against the simplistic framing of Israel’s outcomes in Gaza and against Hezbollah, emphasizing the complexity of what “victory” means nowadays.

• Israeli Objectives in War:

  • Returning hostages (almost fully achieved)
  • Destroying Hamas as a threat (significantly degraded; some risk remains)
  • Ending Hamas’ governance in Gaza (still unresolved)

• The conversation highlights the importance of understanding “victory” beyond traditional or conventional warfare terms.

• Quote [04:30] (Dr. Tal Becker):

  “What we mean by winning in war is kind of more slippery than we expect… one of the things we’ve discovered is that the story of Israel’s legitimacy is at the heart of the conflict. In war, you’re fighting both the capabilities of your enemy, but also the appeal of their story.”

• Dan and Tal discuss how defeat or success against groups like Hamas and Hezbollah cannot be measured solely on military terms—social, narrative, and psychological factors are equally salient.

• Becker invokes Sun Tzu, noting that true victory is about overcoming your enemy's strategy, particularly regarding legitimacy and narratives about coexistence and authenticity.

2. Lasting Outcomes and Historical Parallels

(07:43 – 11:24)

• Senor prompts Becker to reflect on whether Israel has decisively “won” any recent wars in a traditional fashion (like the Six-Day or Yom Kippur Wars).

• Becker [08:22]:

  “Victory really is whether we will not be defined by this… If we’re moving in the direction of normalization, if Israeli society is picking itself up from this war, that is also a form of victory.”

• Becker uses a pop culture analogy from Mad Men to describe the ideal—where terrorist organizations are a nuisance, not an existential shaper of Israel’s agenda.

• Quote [09:51] (Dr. Tal Becker):

  “…if we get to a place where these terrorist organizations… don’t shape the agenda …from the perspective of the average Israeli, they’re a kind of nuisance… the metric… will be about whether our agenda, our dreams, and how we think about ourselves is shaped by that threat or whether we push it back enough so society can thrive.”

3. The Challenge of Israeli Unity—Historical & Educational Context

(11:24 – 16:04)

• Listener question: Are internal divisions in Israeli society today akin to the splintering of ancient Israel into the kingdoms of Israel and Judah?

• Becker brings in a Rashi commentary from the giving of the Torah, emphasizing that unity is rare and strife common in Jewish history.

• The main challenge is moving from crisis-forced unity to sustainable, peacetime cohesion.

• Quote [13:01] (Dr. Tal Becker):

  “We need to cultivate a people that have a sovereign state of mind… a people that values more the collective welfare of the Jewish people than the victory of their own tribe.”

• Becker underscores the role of education: building a new generation that values community across difference and resists polarization.

• He observes how the Hartman Institute (where he is based) is instilling these sensibilities in both Israeli and North American Jews.

4. Education as the Antidote to Tribalism

(14:49 – 16:04)

• Becker expands on educational imperatives:
  • Drawing on the Talmud, he notes Judaism’s tradition of embracing debate and difference as a pathway to truth.
  • This approach is vital in a world dominated by echo chambers and social media, fostering broad-based community and understanding.
• Quote [14:49] (Dr. Tal Becker):

  “The Talmud as a model of teaching, the view you do not agree with… at some level, it is an embrace of an idea that the truth exists above you and not within you, and you have to be in conversation with others and engage across difference to be able to get to a larger truth.”

5. Relationship Between Diaspora Jewry and Israel

(16:04 – 19:11)

• Senor and Becker touch on American Jewish disillusionment with Israel’s current government, especially among the young.
• Becker likens the alienation some Jews feel from Israel based on its leadership to congregants forming a separate minyan because they dislike the rabbi.
• Both agree that connection to Israel should transcend politics or personalities.
• Quote [17:51] (Dr. Tal Becker):

  “Can we engender a kind of Jewish sensibility that understands that Israel is so much bigger than its government?... There’s no obligation for Jews to love any Israeli government. But your Jewish identity and meaning will be so enriched by a relationship with the Jewish sovereign project…”

6. Naming and Confronting Jewish Extremist Violence

(19:21 – 20:06)

• Listener David from California presses why Israeli society and government hesitate to call violent Jewish settlers “terrorists.”
• Becker responds unambiguously, agreeing that such acts should indeed be labeled terrorism.
• Quote [19:50] (Dr. Tal Becker):

  “Yeah, well I won’t give a convincing explanation because I agree.”

7. More In-Depth Topics (Teased for Subscribers)

(20:06–end)

• The sneak peek ends here, with Senor noting that the full episode continues into:
  • Whether Jewish settler extremists should formally be labeled terrorists
  • The potential of an Israel–Saudi Arabia partnership to de-radicalize the Mideast
  • Whether religion defines the Israeli nation
• For the complete conversation, listeners are encouraged to subscribe to the full members’ edition.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Becker on War’s True Objective:

  “In war, you’re not really fighting your enemy, you’re fighting the strategy of your enemy.” [04:30]

• Becker on Victory:

  “Victory comes from the fact that we are bigger—much bigger than this—and have so much more to achieve, and we are moving away from this attempt by Hamas to limit who we can be.” [08:22]

• Becker on Jewish Tribalism:

  “Tribal victory is not as important as the collective welfare of everyone. That means your tribe probably should win a little bit less so that collectively, the Jewish people can win more.” [13:01]

• Becker on Talmudic Education:

  “…the view you do not agree with… is an embrace of an idea that the truth exists above you and not within you, and you have to be in conversation with others and engage across difference…” [14:49]

• Becker on Israeli Government as Synagogue Analogy:

  “There is a way in which the relationship to Israel is almost as if it’s your synagogue and not a state.” [16:51]

• Becker on Jewish Extremist Violence:

  “I agree… if extreme Jewish actors…” (in response to why Jewish settlers aren’t called terrorists) [19:50]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|---------------| | 02:37 | Guest intro: Tal Becker’s background & Israel policy insight | | 04:30 | What does 'victory' mean in today’s Israel/Hamas conflict? | | 07:43 | Challenges of measuring outcomes in modern asymmetrical wars | | 11:24 | Parallels between ancient Jewish divisions and today’s divides | | 13:01 | The need for educational solutions to tribalism and polarization | | 14:49 | Talmudic tradition as a model for constructive education/engagement | | 16:04 | Diaspora–Israel relationship and the problem of political litmus tests | | 19:21 | Confronting Jewish extremist violence and terminology | | 20:06 | (End of sneak peek) Teaser of remaining episode topics |

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is reflective, often self-critical, and unapologetically forthright—characteristic of high-level Jewish and Israeli public discourse. Both Senor and Becker are candid about Israel’s dilemmas and the Jewish world’s internal challenges, always aiming for practical wisdom and improved mutual understanding.

For further listening: The full conversation promises deeper dives into labeling Jewish violence, regional diplomatic possibilities, and the religious nature of Israeli identity—available via the members-only “Inside Call Me Back” feed.