Podcast Summary: Call Me Back with Dan Senor

Episode: The Only-Bibi Camp Vs Never-Bibi Camp - with Ari Shavit
Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Dan Senor
Guest: Ari Shavit

Overview

This episode explores the deep societal and political rift in Israel, framed around Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (“Bibi”). Over the past decade, Israeli discourse has increasingly divided into two camps: the "Only-Bibi" (pro-Netanyahu) and "Never-Bibi" (anti-Netanyahu) factions. Host Dan Senor and veteran journalist and author Ari Shavit dissect how this focus on a single leader has eclipsed complex ideological, social, and existential questions facing Israel. Their discussion examines the roots and consequences of this polarization, the evolution of Netanyahu's leadership, and what a path forward might look like.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise of "Bibesis" – Israeli Obsession with Netanyahu

[01:11], [13:12]

• Ari Shavit characterizes Israeli society as suffering from "bibesis," an all-consuming obsession with Netanyahu:

  "We've been taken by a dangerous bacteria called bibesis because we are just obsessed with one person." – Ari Shavit [01:11, 13:12]

• Everyday issues like health, education, and security are overshadowed by debates about Netanyahu.
• The divide is not just about policy but visceral identification: pro-Bibi or anti-Bibi.

2. The Structure of the Political Camps

[05:45], [09:27], [10:55]

• The "Never-Bibi" camp (Rak Lo Bibi) cut across traditional left-right politics, uniting figures as diverse as left-wing doves and right-wing hawks like Lieberman and Bennett.
• The "Only-Bibi" camp is rooted in three main groups: Mizrahim (Jews from Middle Eastern countries), the ultra-Orthodox, and ultra-nationalists.
• The divide is as much about identity and history as about ideology or specific issues.

Demographic Dimensions

• Netanyahu's coalition stands as a counterforce to Israel’s secular, Ashkenazi "elites," driven by deep resentments and feelings of exclusion.
• The "Never-Bibi" group is commonly described as the old "WASP" (White Ashkenazi Supporter of Peace) elite—now focused on democracy and liberalism rather than peace per se.

  "These people now feel that democracy is in danger. So... the peace was replaced by democracy." – Ari Shavit [10:55]

3. How Netanyahu Polarized the Country

[16:04]

• Initially, Netanyahu was a moderate conservative who sought out centrist collaboration.

• Facing rejection and ongoing investigations, he became increasingly paranoid and populist, retreating into divisiveness.

• Shavit distinguishes between the "old Bibi" (centrist, pragmatic) and "new Bibi" (combative, populist post-2014).

  "I never met a person that's such an impressive person and such a flawed person in one suit. There is a combination in him of talent and flaws... that is driving this nation nuts for 20 years." – Ari Shavit quoting a Netanyahu confidant [16:04]

• Each camp’s support is fueled by mutual resentment:

  • Anti-Bibi Israelis resent his ability as an outsider to outshine them.
  • Pro-Bibi Israelis feel represented against longstanding elite oppression.

4. The Ironies and Consequences of Obsession

[13:12], [27:43]

• Focus on Bibi himself obscures policy and ideological differences—shifting debate from substantive issues (the judiciary, territory) to raw tribal loyalty.

• Even historically "right wing" criticism of judicial overreach began with Labor and centrist figures, not Netanyahu.

• Shavit claims that the anti-Bibi movement has, paradoxically, strengthened Netanyahu:

  "Never Bibi camp...was the worst political investment ever...it didn't weaken Netanyahu; it strengthened Netanyahu....Bibi's radical opponents in Israel are his best friends." – Ari Shavit [27:43, 31:01]

• The combativeness of "Never-Bibi" repels potential moderate-defectors and narrows the camp’s focus to mere personal opposition.

5. Systemic and Social Impacts

[13:12], [33:44]

• The dynamic leaves Israel in a “civil war of the mind,” damaging governance and making compromise impossible.

• Supporters of the "Only-Bibi" camp feel powerless despite electoral victories, convinced that the "deep state" (judiciary, civil service) thwarts their will.

  "We vote time after time, we win the elections, but we never really acquire power." – Ari Shavit paraphrasing popular sentiment [33:44]

• October 7th is cited as an inflection point underscoring the dangers of internal preoccupation over external threats.

6. The Path Forward: Zionist Unity After Netanyahu

[36:35], [39:50], [41:19]

• Shavit calls for a "Zionist unity" coalition after Netanyahu: uniting moderates from both sides, healing rifts, and refocusing on national priorities.

  "Let all reasonable Zionists unite...in order to rebuild the republic as a Republic, not as a monarchy." – Ari Shavit [36:35]

• Suggests pardoning Netanyahu as part of a grand bargain:

  • End judicial “revolution”
  • Address constitutional issues collaboratively
  • Detoxify political discourse

• Stresses the urgency caused by internal and external threats, and expresses optimism for renewal if leaders seize the opportunity.

7. The Judicial Crisis and Netanyahu's Future

[39:03], [39:50]

• Netanyahu’s trial and debates about a presidential pardon are seen as a crucible.
• The outcome could decide whether the Netanyahu era ends in peace or ongoing resentment.
• Shavit advocates a compromise: Netanyahu pardoned, judicial reform halted, and pressing national issues addressed with broad consensus.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Israel’s division:

  "We are torn in the most dramatic way over one person." – Ari Shavit [01:11, 13:12]

• On the impact of anti-Bibi obsession:

  "Bibi's radical opponents in Israel are his best friends...because they did not develop a vision, ideas, plans, you don't know what's the positive." – Ari Shavit [31:01]

• On Israeli identity politics:

  "The Israeli right has lost the commitment to traditional conservative values. It's mostly victimhood...it's identity politics." – Ari Shavit [31:25]

• On the possibility of unity:

  "The concept I believe in is Zionist unity...I see a yearning for something new." – Ari Shavit [36:35, 38:53]

• On Netanyahu’s strategic benefit:

  "Every morning when Bibi wakes up...sees this obsession, he says, thank you so much, guys, you are helping me so much." – Ari Shavit [27:43]

Key Segment Timestamps

• [01:11–02:00]: Shavit on the cultural obsession with Netanyahu (“bibesis”).
• [05:45–10:50]: Mapping the political tribes and their social bases.
• [13:12–15:50]: The broader impacts of Bibi-centered politics on governance.
• [16:04–19:09]: Shavit discusses Netanyahu’s personality evolution.
• [20:31–22:05]: Historical context of Netanyahu’s rise amid elite resentment and the Oslo division.
• [27:43–31:01]: Paradoxical strengthening of Netanyahu by his hardened opposition.
• [33:44–36:17]: The persistent sense of exclusion among Netanyahu’s supporters despite political victories.
• [36:35–39:03]: The case for Zionist unity and post-Bibi centrism.
• [39:03–42:02]: The judicial trial, possible pardon, and what it means for Israeli political healing.

Conclusion

This episode delves deeply into the extraordinary personalism of contemporary Israeli politics, the demographic and emotional roots of the "Only-Bibi" and "Never-Bibi" camps, and the dangerous consequences of such polarization. Ari Shavit offers historical perspective, sharp analysis, and a vision for moving beyond personalized politics toward a new consensus rooted in pragmatic Zionism and unity. The message: Israel must detox from "bibesis" and rediscover a collective national purpose, before the country’s social fabric and democratic institutions are irreparably damaged.