Podcast Summary: The Perfect Storm

Podcast: Call Me Back – with Dan Senor
Guest: Benjamin Birely
Host: Dan Senor
Production: Ark Media
Date: October 30, 2025
Main Theme:
Exploring the rise of anti-Israel sentiment and antisemitism in Italy through the firsthand experiences of Benjamin Birely, an American-Israeli PhD student studying in Naples. The episode draws connections between historical Italian trends, Jewish diaspora challenges, and the broader “perfect storm” fueling new antisemitism across Europe.

1. Main Theme & Purpose

The episode aims to shed light on the unique and troubling ways antisemitism and anti-Israel activism have become mainstream in Italy — a development the host believes may foreshadow trends in other Western diaspora communities. Through Benjamin Birely’s personal narrative, listeners gain direct insight into daily Jewish life in Naples, societal conditions fostering antisemitism, and the Italian Jewish community’s response.

2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Italy’s Unique “Perfect Storm” (00:08, 14:25)

• Three Core Roots:
  • Catholic Historical Legacy: Persistent religious anti-Jewish sentiment — even after official renunciation by the Church in the 1960s (Second Vatican Council).
    “60 years is not enough time to root that out.” – Benjamin (15:31)
  • Left-Wing, Soviet-Aligned Propaganda: Italy’s large Communist tradition linked Palestinian narratives to anti-imperialism, infusing anti-Zionism with anti-Jewish tropes since the 1960s–1970s.
  • Glorification of “Resistance Fighters”: The idealization of partisans and rebels has helped recast Palestinian militancy in heroic terms, fusing left-wing and national sentiments.

    “When you have these three elements coming together... you have a perfect storm for this new kind of antisemitism, anti-Zionism.” — Benjamin (18:10)

B. Daily Life for Jews and Israelis in Naples (07:34–13:03)

• Constant Hostility:
  • Graffiti, posters, and signage (“Zionists not welcome”).
  • Cold academic reception—organized boycotts of Israeli/Jewish scholars.
  • Risk of open hostility in daily interactions; Jewish symbols (even on non-Israeli groups) draw harassment.
  • Public pro-Palestinian chants at football (soccer) matches, even among mainstream or working-class Neapolitans.

    “If they know that you're Israeli or they think you might be a Zionist, you have to be prepared to be asked to leave.” — Benjamin (09:52)

C. Contrast with Other Diaspora Experiences (13:03–14:14)

• Not Just Academia or the Far Left: The anti-Israel movement is deeply mainstream, crossing generations, politics, and regions—distinct from France, the UK, or US.
• Not Driven by Immigration: Unlike elsewhere in Europe, where Muslim immigrant communities sometimes drive anti-Israel activism, Italy’s Jewish minority is tiny and its Muslim community proportionally smaller than in France.

D. The Italian Jewish Community: History & Current Strategies (19:12–25:21)

• Ancient, Unique Minority:
  • Max 35,000 Jews (0.05% of population), concentrated in big cities.
  • Community origins predate both Ashkenazi and Sephardi traditions.
• Community Response:
  • Focused on relationships with politicians and security, not mass activism or public advocacy.
  • Generational divide: older Jews are more stoic/adaptive (“this too shall pass”), while young Jews are anxious, practical—seeking ways to emigrate, make aliyah, and secure futures elsewhere.

    “Where you see the alarm bells really going off are with very young Italian Jews, Gen Z.” — Benjamin (23:05)

E. Political and Historical Underpinnings (25:21–32:11)

• Classic Antisemitism vs. New Antisemitism:
  • Neo-fascist groups and far-right soccer fans still glorify Mussolini (his tomb is a “pilgrimage site”). Classic racist antisemitism is mostly fringe, while mainstream antisemitism centers on anti-Zionism, anti-imperialism, and anti-Israel rhetoric.
  • Left-wing football ultras in Naples even adopt Palestinian militant imagery (“Fedayeen”).

    “Their ultras... are called Fedayeen... There was a period of political violence... that used the image of the Palestinian guerilla fighter.” — Benjamin (27:21)

• Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni's Stance:
  • On the right but not “pro-Israel” in an American Republican sense; supports Israel with major caveats — always discusses two-state solution, Palestinian dignity, and has at times criticized Israel’s military actions.
  • Her government’s position is nuanced, reflecting wider Italian ambivalence and left-wing frustration channeled into even more anti-Israel sentiment.

F. Personal Transformation: Life as a Jew in Modern Europe (35:27–39:43)

• Identity and Perspective Shifts:
  • Benjamin describes a journey from American to Israeli and then a new awakening as a minority Jew in Italy—learning “what it means to be a Jew in the diaspora.”
  • Emphasizes the vulnerability and isolation of micro-minorities compared to the more robust infrastructure in places like the US or France.
  • For young Italian Jews, Israel is both a physical and cultural refuge.

3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Italian Mainstreaming of Anti-Israel Sentiment:

  “The pro-Palestine movement is something that crosses generations. It crosses politics, regional divides, class divides, which makes it, in my opinion, fundamentally different than what we're seeing in other places in the West.”
  — Benjamin (13:03)

• On Jewish Daily Life in Naples:

  “You are bombarded with graffiti on every street corner: ‘Israel’s a terrorist state. Israel’s genocidal. Intifada. Zionists are Nazis.’”
  — Benjamin (09:52)

• On Older vs. Younger Jews:

  “Where you see the alarm bells really going off are with very young Italian Jews, Gen Z. We have an inversion ... those who are most concerned aren’t 45 or 55-year-old Italian Jews, but 20-year-olds who are realizing they don’t have a future.”
  — Benjamin (23:05)

• On Societal Tolerance of Fascist Legacy:

  “Mussolini’s tomb is a place people go on pilgrimage to... there was never a process here of cleansing the public space of fascist monuments.”
  — Benjamin (27:21)

• On Discovering the Micro-Minority Mindset:

  “To live in Italy has taught me what it means to be a micro-minority—not only to be a member of a micro-minority, but the micro-minority that is a topic of national conversation every day, framed as something dangerous and subversive.”
  — Benjamin (36:34)

4. Important Timestamps

• 00:08 – Historical roots of Italian anti-Zionism; “perfect storm” elements
• 07:34 – Benjamin’s arrival in Naples; discovery of boycott/graffiti (Intifada until victory)
• 09:52–12:18 – Vivid description of hostile environment for Jews in Naples
• 14:25 – Historical/cultural context: Catholicism, Communism, partisans
• 19:12 – Primer on Italian Jewish community’s history
• 21:09–24:14 – How Italian Jews cope (fragile, divided, generational split)
• 27:21 – Fascist symbols, football fan culture, and adoption of Palestinian imagery
• 32:11–34:39 – Meloni’s government: nuanced, complex pro-Israel stance
• 35:27 – Benjamin’s personal journey/identity crisis: American–Israeli–diaspora Jew
• 36:34–39:43 – Lessons for broader diaspora; why Israel’s existence is essential

5. Takeaways & Broader Implications

• Italy shows how antisemitism can mainstream beyond traditional ideological or demographic boundaries, driven by complex historical narratives and current politics.
• The experience of being a Jewish micro-minority in Italy provides sobering lessons for diaspora solidarity and highlights both cultural and physical vulnerabilities smaller communities face.
• Benjamin’s story underlines how immigrant, religious, and identity journeys can collide in unexpected ways in the face of societal hostility.

6. Tone & Style

The conversation is both analytical and personal, blending rigorous historical context with raw, lived experience. Benjamin is candid and deeply reflective; Dan Senor is attentive, knowledgeable, and empathetic, inviting the audience to consider transnational implications.

For more in-depth insights, listen to the full episode of Call Me Back with Dan Senor, “The Perfect Storm.”