Podcast Summary: Call Me Back – with Dan Senor

Episode: Why We Fight – with Micah Goodman
Airdate: March 23, 2026

Episode Overview

In this deeply engaging conversation, Dan Senor hosts Micah Goodman—Israeli public intellectual, bestselling author, and co-host of the influential podcast Me Fleget HaMachabot—to explore the profound dilemmas and stakes facing Israel, the US-Israel relationship, and Zionism in the context of the ongoing war with Iran. Goodman frames the current conflict not as a continuation of previous hostilities but as a historic convergence point—merging the Iranian people's struggle for liberty with the West’s battle for security against Iran's destabilizing regime. The conversation dives into narratives shaping public opinion, the paradoxical dynamics in US-Israel relations, the global implications of the war, and the renewed meaning of Zionism on the world stage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the Current War: A Historic Convergence

• [07:27] Micah Goodman: The present conflict is not just a follow-on to the brief "12 Day War," but a "grand convergence" of two long-running, previously parallel stories:
  • The struggle of the Iranian people for liberty (with pivotal protests and uprisings against the regime spanning decades, culminating in the 2026 massacre in Tehran).
  • The battle of Israel & the West for security against Iran’s aggressive policies and proxies.
• This convergence may finally be enough, Goodman argues, to threaten the regime’s stability:

  “If the weight of both stories, when they're added up, is this enough to bring down the regime? I would think so. If this can't bring down the regime, what can?” (07:27)

2. US-Israel Relations: Emotional Distance vs. Strategic Closeness

• Public Opinion & Strategic Alliance
  • Recent Gallup polls reveal growing emotional distance between Americans (especially the young) and Israel, with more Americans expressing sympathy for Palestinians ([11:28]).
  • Paradoxically, US and Israeli militaries are operating more closely than ever—at levels of cooperation unprecedented even in longstanding Western alliances:

    “There's nothing like it… the US has never had an alliance like this anywhere.” (13:02, Dan Senor)

    “At the same moment where Americans are distancing themselves from Israel emotionally, our armies are closer than ever strategically.” (13:38, Goodman)

• Policy Shift
  • The alliance is now seen as a major US strategic asset, unlike earlier decades when Israel was viewed as a liability in realpolitik terms ([14:11]).

3. Narratives Driving the War Debate in the US

• Left & Right-Wing Perspectives
  • On the Left (New York Times narrative): Israel is seen as dragging the US into another Middle East fiasco.
  • Far-Right (Tucker Carlson narrative): The US is functioning as Israel's proxy, allegedly at the expense of American interests.
  • Despite differing assumptions, both sides portray Israel as leading the US into disaster ([15:24]):

    “Both narratives is that Israel is pushing the United States of America into a disaster. …If this war goes wrong…the Tucker Carlson narrative becomes like the prophecy…and that would be a disaster for the Israeli-American relationship.” (15:56, Goodman)

  • If the war succeeds, by contrast, Israel could emerge as America’s most valuable strategic partner ([17:02]):

    “It’s about our enemy and our friendship. And that's why the stakes are pretty high. Everything is on the table.” (17:45)

4. Underlying Forces: Isolationism, Deep State, and Conspiracies

• [18:24] Goodman breaks down two entwined themes in right-wing US thought:
  • Deep State Narrative: Globalist elites, controlling the unelected bureaucracy, are undermining national self-determination.
  • Isolationism: America should focus on itself, abstain from foreign interventions, and resist being pulled into “forever wars”—with the accusation that the “Israel lobby” or “Jewish influence” pushes the US into conflict, echoing historic antisemitic tropes and the original America First movement ([27:05]).

5. Global Stakes: China, Russia, and Preventing World War III

• Iran’s Strategic Role
  • Goodman explains China’s ambitions around Taiwan and how Iran functions for China as Hezbollah does for Iran—distracting adversaries by creating a second front ([21:00]).
• Restoring US Deterrence
  • Following the chaotic US withdrawal from Afghanistan and eroding deterrence, a victorious campaign against Iran could reestablish American strength on the global stage and deter Chinese and Russian aggression:

    “This is not what brings us closer to World War 3. This is what blocks World War 3. If this ends well, America…comes out with the dominance it had after World War II.” (25:10, Goodman)

  • Conversely, failure would further embolden adversaries and deepen global instability.

6. How Trump’s Doctrine Fits (or Breaks) with History

• No "Pearl Harbor Moment"
  • Trump’s decision to go to war against Iran lacks the galvanizing “Pearl Harbor moment” that gave Roosevelt latitude to defy isolationist promises in WWII. Trump, however, has long identified Iran as a unique and chronic threat to America, allowing him to act in continuity with his worldview even without an external trigger ([26:56 - 31:56]).
• A New Model for Intervention
  • Trump’s approach is marked by:
    • No endless wars/boots on the ground (avoid quagmire).
    • No seeking international legitimization (America acts alone if needed).
    • Not about spreading democracy, but about "nation-protecting,” not "nation-building" ([34:07]).

7. Zionism Reconsidered: From National Project to Global Impact

• Repurposing Herzl
  • Goodman links today’s war and Israel’s unexpected global role to Theodor Herzl’s Zionist vision:

    “Everything that the Jews will do when they have a state will be for egoistic reasons. …But the results will be for the benefit of the entire world. …Zionism will put the Jewish people in a position that everything they do for themselves will be for the benefit of humanity.” (39:20, Goodman, paraphrasing Herzl)

• Dual Impact of Israeli Actions
  • Israeli soldiers fight for national survival, but the outcome could stabilize the world, liberate Iranians and Lebanese, and restore global order, thus fulfilling both a practical and an inspirational role.

8. Contesting Narratives: Israel as Destabilizer or Stabilizer?

• The conspiracy theory that Israel is the world's destabilizing force—common across ideological spectrums—is challenged by current events:

  “What you're basically arguing…is that this whole conspiracy theory is being flipped. Iran is actually the destabilizing force and Israel working with the United States becomes the stabilizing force.” (41:02, Senor)

• The success or failure of this war will determine which narrative prevails.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the stakes:

  “From an Israeli perspective, it's not only about wiping out our greatest enemy. It's also about saving our relationship with our best friend. …From a global perspective, this is about preventing World War Three. This war is about everything.” (26:56, Goodman)

• On Zionism’s duality:

  “There’s an interesting gap between the intentions of our soldiers…which is nationalistic, [and] the results could stabilize the world and liberate not one, but two nations.” (35:35, Goodman)

• On the burden of history:

  “Do our pilots know how much weight is on their shoulders? ...It's about Israeli security. But do they know it's also about restoring global order? …I got a WhatsApp from a high rank commander in the Israeli Air Force and he says we know. Maybe they couldn't articulate it, but they feel the weight of history on their shoulders.” (27:05 & 29:31, Goodman)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [07:27] — Goodman introduces the two grand narrative threads and their current convergence.
• [11:28] — Exploring the paradox: American public emotional distance vs. unprecedented military alliance.
• [15:24] — The competing left and right US narratives about Israel and the war.
• [18:24] — Anatomy of the right-wing "deep state" and isolationist narratives, and the role of antisemitism.
• [21:00] — The global superpower rivalry and Iran’s strategic function in the US-China contest over Taiwan.
• [25:10] — Loss of US deterrence after Afghanistan; how the war with Iran could recalibrate US strength.
• [26:56] — Roosevelt, Pearl Harbor, and the uniqueness of Trump’s decision-making moment.
• [31:56] — Trump’s worldview and logic regarding Iran.
• [34:07] — The three core rules of "America First" war-making under Trump.
• [35:35] — Goodman on Zionism, Herzl’s vision, and unintended global consequences of Israeli actions.
• [39:20] — Quoting Herzl: “Everything we attempt there for our own prosperity will have a powerful and blessed effect for the benefit of all mankind.”
• [41:28] — Contesting destabilization narratives; the war’s outcome as the final arbiter.

Concluding Thoughts

The episode offers a nuanced, far-reaching discussion at the intersection of Israeli security, American global strategy, and Jewish history. Goodman and Senor make a compelling case that the war’s stakes transcend the region—they will likely shape global order, the future of the US-Israel alliance, and the moral perception of Zionism itself. Whether Israel is seen as a force for global stability or a source of discord will depend on what unfolds in the coming months.