Podcast Summary: Call Me Back - with Dan Senor

Episode: Zionophobia – with Judea Pearl
Date: February 19, 2026
Host: Dan Senor (Ark Media)
Guest: Judea Pearl

Episode Overview

This episode features Judea Pearl, pioneering computer scientist and prominent defender of Zionism, discussing the origins and significance of "Zionophobia," a term he coined to frame anti-Zionism as a form of racism and identity denial akin to Islamophobia. Pearl shares his experiences growing up in pre-state Israel, his reflections on the transformation of Israeli society, and his views on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and prospects for peace.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Coining and Intent of "Zionophobia"

• Pearl’s Rationale for the Term ([00:04], [24:54], [29:23]):
  Pearl introduces "Zionophobia" to frame anti-Zionism as a form of racism, paralleling how "Islamophobia" has been established as a societal sin. He explains that the term aims to change the discourse by making hostility to Jewish self-determination socially unacceptable:

  • "I coined the name Zionophobia to connect anti-Zionism with the idea of racism. We should stop the strategy of defending our innocence against accusation. We have to create symmetry here and say you are accused of racism as well." ([00:04])
  • "I started calling them racists. Okay? I coined the name Zionophobia... attach to it an element of irrationality, phobia... accuse the anti-Zionist of racism combined with genocide." ([24:54])

• Need for Conversational Symmetry ([32:03], [32:38]):
  Pearl insists that just as “Islamophobe” is a slur, so too should “Zionophobe” be treated.

  • "Normally [anti-Zionists] are shocked and say, 'What? We are genocide enablers? Unheard of.'... I want to shock the anti-Zionist out of his pompous self-righteousness." ([32:38])

2. Pearl’s Early Life and the Evolution of Israeli Society

• Pre-State Upbringing ([04:52], [05:28], [06:50]):
  Pearl describes an idyllic, insulated childhood in Bnei Brak, a town founded by his grandfather, where socialist, religious, and ultra-Orthodox communities coexisted peacefully.

  • "We were expected to be the new Jewish who has no knowledge of persecution, of the diaspora, of antisemitism... We were really spoiled brats, I should say. At the same time we were part of the effort of establishing a state." ([05:28])

• Societal Shifts ([09:17]):
  The balance changed as Bnei Brak became more religiously homogenous, leading his family to leave due to rising tensions.

  • He reminisces about Friday nights filled with song, highlighting the unique communal spirit.

3. Formative Historical Experiences

• Partition Decision and War of Independence ([10:52], [17:17], [18:29]):
  Pearl recalls the excitement and generational divide at the UN’s partition vote and the traumatic reality of war immediately following independence.

  • "[On November 29, 1947] At that point, my father grabbed me and said, 'You don't understand what's going on.' I said, 'No, I don't.'... He was born in Poland... I couldn't understand his glee and he couldn't understand why I take it so nonchalantly. But at that point we understood each other." ([17:17])

• Holocaust Awareness ([15:38]):
  He learned about the Shoah indirectly and through interactions with refugee children:

  • "The first time I learned about the Holocaust, when I met my mother crying in the kitchen... She said, 'You know, I have family in Poland and there is a war going on.'... I learned it from children who came to our school from Europe... They talked differently, they thought differently, they behaved differently. And we treated them cruelly because they were different. ... So that's how I learned firsthand about the Shoah." ([15:38])

4. Education and the Culture of Excellence

• Tel Aviv High School and the Technion ([20:09], [21:57]):
  Pearl reflects on an extraordinary educational environment created by refugee scholars:
  • "Imagine that in California, they force every professor to teach five years in high school... This is the kind of education that I got." ([20:09])

5. Path to Zionist Activism

• Motivation ([24:49]):
  Pearl's activism began during the Second Intifada, galvanized by anti-Zionist discourse among expats in LA and the murder of his son, Daniel Pearl.
  • "It actually started in a second intifada... I became interested. It was clear to me that there is disparity here. Between what we hear in the news and what is going on. I saw that to be an era of deceit from the Arab side." ([24:49])

6. Zionophobia, Antisemitism, and Policy

• Critique of the Antisemitism Label ([34:38]):
  Pearl argues that “antisemitism” is used as institutional cover for inaction, particularly in academia, and doesn't address the current reality that it's Zionists who are being targeted:
  • "They love the word antisemitism... When you are fighting antisemitism, you can appoint a task force... and you buy yourself 12 years of inaction. ... Who are the targets of hostility today in the universities? ... Zionists are the targets of hostilities, not the Jewish people. ... Please deal with the real issue." ([34:38])

7. On the Israel–Palestinian Conflict and Peace Prospects

• Identifying the Core Conflict ([38:30]):
  Pearl outlines his view that negotiations have failed because the Palestinian side’s primary aim has been to deny Jewish sovereignty, not to achieve their own.

  • "The Jews have an essential principle — it is to establish a state. And the Palestinians have another principle. And this is to prevent the Jews from having a state... This asymmetry... has been the source of the conflict throughout the entire 78 years from 1947 until today." ([38:30])

• Indigeneity and Compromise ([41:47]):
  True peace requires recognition of mutual indigeneity.

  • "Two states for two people, equally legitimate and equally indigenous... Nothing can be accomplished unless both sides recognize each other... as indigenous." ([41:47], [42:16])

• Practical Roadmap ([43:53]):
  He argues for focusing on education towards this recognition, suggesting that diplomatic processes are useless without addressing these fundamentals.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On creating a mirror to Islamophobia:
  "The Muslims were very successful building up the name Islamophobia as one of the canonical sin of our society. And that's exactly what I wanted to do... coining Zionophobia to connect anti-Zionism with racism." ([00:04], [29:23])

• On the core of the conflict:
  "One side says, 'We, we, we.' The other side says, 'Me, me and only me.' ... This asymmetry ... has been the source of the conflict throughout the entire 78 years from 1947 until today." ([38:30])

• On task forces and inaction:
  "I've seen that the word antisemitic is being used as a cover up for inaction... you buy yourself 12 years of inaction because nothing comes out of this task force appointed to combat antisemitism." ([34:38])

• On mutual recognition:
  "Nothing can be accomplished unless both sides recognize each other [as] equally indigenous." ([41:47])

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:04 | Judea Pearl introduces "Zionophobia" and its intended impact | | 05:28 | Pearl describes pre-state Bnei Brak’s harmonious coexistence of different Jewish communities | | 09:17 | Social shift in Bnei Brak and the family’s departure | | 15:38 | Pearl’s realization about the Holocaust | | 17:17 | Partition vote and generational differences | | 18:29 | First war experiences after Israeli independence | | 20:09 | Schooling in Tel Aviv; extraordinary teachers | | 24:49 | Path to activism triggered by the Second Intifada and Daniel Pearl’s murder | | 29:23 | Reactions to President Carter’s book and on condoning terrorism | | 32:38 | The need for symmetry in terms and reframing the accusation | | 34:38 | The inadequacy and political misuse of the term “antisemitism” in modern conflict contexts | | 38:30 | The irreconcilable asymmetry in Israeli–Palestinian negotiations | | 41:47 | Pearl’s criteria and vision for two-state solution based on mutual indigeneity | | 43:53 | Skepticism about short-term solutions and emphasis on generational educational change |

Conclusion

The episode provides a deep, personal, and theoretical exploration of Judea Pearl’s concept of "Zionophobia." Drawing on his unique personal history and academic rigor, Pearl argues for a reorientation of the global conversation about Israel and anti-Zionism, pressing for Western and Jewish institutions to confront modern racism against Jewish self-determination with the same seriousness they treat other forms of bigotry. His vision for peace is rooted in educational transformation and mutual recognition, not quick fixes.