Elizabeth Marcolini (2:39)

Thank you for having me here, Father. It's a joy to be here with you today.

Father Mike Schmitz (2:43)

I am. I'm grateful that you're here, but, you know, you've done so much. You've lived through so much. You have been a great witness to the love of Jesus in this world. And one of the things we talk about here is how to be the hands, the feet, the face, the heart of Jesus. There are many people who might not know how your story. Would you mind just kind of introducing our listeners to a little bit about yourself?

Elizabeth Marcolini (3:07)

Yeah, I think my family is a big part of my story. I'm the oldest of seven children. I grew up in a political household. My dad was a congressman and then a senator ran for president. And so that was kind of my upbringing that shaped me, I think. Tremendous younger sister. I think I'll share more, a little bit more about her later, but she is the youngest in our family and was born with special needs. Had a huge impact on my life, changed my life. And I met my husband on a top of a castle in Ireland. True story. We got married, prayed for children for a long time, became foster parents, and then adopted two beautiful girls and then were blessed with a miraculous pregnancy. So three different miracles, three different ways. I'm the CEO of a construction company by day, but I moonlight by night as mom to three really special kids and a wonderful husband. Wow.

Father Mike Schmitz (4:02)

Okay. So that is. I've never heard a bio like that in my entire life or an introduction in my entire life. Going back to. I mean, because I just kind of raced past the fact that, that you actually are the. Are one of the authors of the Pocket Guide to Works of Mercy. And which is. Which is. So that ascension has a lot of these pocket guides to the rosary or to adoration or to reconciliation, to the works of mercy, which is what the heart of this podcast is all about. I'm gonna. We're gonna go way, way back. But I just wanna ask you, how did you get. How did you get connected with that, with that book?

Elizabeth Marcolini (4:36)

Oh, my goodness. So you know what's funny? The three of us got together, my dear friends, Nina and Claire, and we wanted to actually talk about etiquette. That was where we began, like two years ago. Yes, but, you know, the funnel down was only something Jesus could do. Was we Were like, you know, we feel like the. In our world, that kind of this charity in action, not stuffiness, not put the fork in the right place, but, like, to, like, really take time to, like, visit the other person and to love them. And when we met the wonderful team at Ascension and we were kind of playing around with this concept, they were like, you know what that sounds like? That sounds like mercy. And we were like, oh, yeah, it kind of does. So that's where it all started, was it became that. And we were like, what embodies, like, lived charity and action more than living the works of mercy. And we were like, it is the practical framework of, like, the love etiquette, hands and feet of the church. What are the practical ways that as a mom of three little kids, I can live the works of mercy? Because I'm still called to do that, even in the season of my life.

Father Mike Schmitz (5:37)

Wow, that's amazing. So you had mentioned that. So your last name currently is Marcolini, which is. Sounds Italian.

Elizabeth Marcolini (5:45)

It is Marcolini, yeah.

Father Mike Schmitz (5:47)

And Santorum, which doesn't sound Irish, but you met your husband on a. On a castle in Ireland.

Elizabeth Marcolini (5:55)

We did. True story. Talk about God's faithfulness. I took a year off in college to work on one of my dad's campaigns at the time, you know, you're young. It was like the end of the world. I'm like, I'm missing all my friends and all this fun. Yeah. And because I took this year, I wanted to make up extra credits. And so I. Christendom had this wonderful. I'm, like, putting this great plug for Christendom. It's an amazing program. It's called the St. Columkill Institute. Over the summer, it was the first year they'd ever done it. You get college credits and you spend the summer in Ireland. And I was like, that sounds like a deal. Way better, you know, like, local college. So I went over there, I met the group, and as he always describes it, I was late and he was early and nothing ever changed. And we met at the top of the castle. So. So.

Father Mike Schmitz (6:35)

Wow.

Elizabeth Marcolini (6:36)

Yeah, that's.

Father Mike Schmitz (6:37)

That's amazing. So, and. And this comes from a. The oldest of seven.

Elizabeth Marcolini (6:41)

Right.

Father Mike Schmitz (6:42)

And youngest is Bella.

Elizabeth Marcolini (6:44)

Yes.

Father Mike Schmitz (6:45)

How did Bella's. Being part of your family, being part of your life reshape your. How.

Elizabeth Marcolini (6:51)

How.

Father Mike Schmitz (6:51)

How did it affect you? How. How did it help you become the woman you are now?

Elizabeth Marcolini (6:56)

You know, so Bella was born with a genetic condition called trisomy 18. So in, you know, the same way down syndrome is an extra chromosome on, you know, chromosome trisomy 18 is an extra 18th. When she was born, the doctors told my parents that these are the exact words they use. They said that Bella is incompatible with life.

Father Mike Schmitz (7:17)

Oh, wow.

Elizabeth Marcolini (7:18)

And they said that she was sent home on hospice. And basically they said that Bella would, would just one, one way or another, she was not going to make it very long. My mom was a NICU nurse. She was an amazing fighter and advocate for Bella. Both my parents were. But my mom really, in a special way, just because of her back. Like I remember in that NICU when we wrote the book about Bella, it's just story after story of the medical community really, at times there were wonderful people that we found further along in the journey. But initially, a lot of really not so great people that I remember, the NICU doctor, I was there arguing with my mom, you know, because he wouldn't send her home with oxygen. And my mom was like, that is basic care. Yeah, you cannot send her home without this. So Bella, to date, she's 17. She lives a full life, a beautiful life. She is surrounded by love. She knows only love and she gives only love. And how was I impacted this? A thousand ways, but I think as a young person, when Bella was born, I was 17. I remember Bella spent a lot of that first year of life in the hospital. And so for, you know, for my parents, they were, they were amazing. They, you know, really were heroic in their sacrifice and their love. But that required a lot of family sacrifice.

Father Mike Schmitz (8:36)

Yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth Marcolini (8:37)

You know, I remember friends, like, worrying about, like, what they were going to wear for prom or studying for the SAT or what colleges you were going to apply to. And I was like, it was an earth shattering moment for me because. And I think this is a true reflection of all special needs children. And the blessing they are is you step out of yourself. You step out of yourself. And, you know, I was like, I can't worry about that. I need to worry about whether my sister is going to be okay today and whether my siblings need help with their homework or who's going to make dinner at home, because mom or dad, I don't know who's going to be at the hospital today or what's happening. And, you know, I've been asked before, oh, that must have been so hard. And yes, like, of course, like, it was definitely across our family carried with her. But I also thought it was one of the greatest invitations of my life to understand what the cross was at a young age, which I think for a lot of us takes longer than that. So in Some, in a way, I really view this as a mercy that God gave our family to understand what love was at a really young age.

Father Mike Schmitz (9:34)

Wow. That. That is. That's incredible that. You know, one of the things that I. I reflect on a lot. I work with college students. I work. I'm the director of youth ministry for our diocese. And so we're with a lot of middle school or high school, like you were when Bella was born. And one of the things I find sometimes is that when young people and anybody but young people encounter suffering, they want to encounter sickness, they encounter tragedy for the first time in their lives or over the period of time. One of the things that can be attacked is. Is their faith, is their. Their willingness or ability to trust in God. And was that ever part of your story when it came to, like, okay, here's Bella here, or even just that sense of here? I. I'm the oldest of. Of. Of seven now, and I'm being responsible for these other five and then, you know, plus Bella. And was there ever a time where the temptation for you was to not trust the Lord, or was that just kind of one of the graces of your faith?

Elizabeth Marcolini (10:35)

Oh, I think it definitely was. At moments, I remember a night in adoration, I brought one of my youngest brothers, and, you know, we were in adoration. And I've had a few times in my life where I can remember, like, beginning to pray and then ending prayer. Like, an hour had gone by just kind of that, like, grief and pain and wrestling and anger at times. Like, um. But I know that in that moment, the consolation I received was. Or I think that kind of the pull on my heart was, are you who I believe you are? And. And I think as a teenager, someone had said that to me once. It's funny, the things that people say that really have a huge impact, but someone had said, go through scripture and pull out the names of Jesus, and that is who he is. And you can pray and reflect on that and in, like, live it in your life. Like, he is healer, he is way maker, all of these things. Right? But. Yeah, but I think as we went through that with Bella, it was, again, to be honest, I speak this. To trust and surrender is the hardest thing in my spiritual life, and it continues to be. So. I think God gives me a lot of opportunities to practice this because I'm so bad at it. But I know as a teenager, leaning into, like, lord, I don't have to know what you're doing, but I know who you are. And to me, that simplified A lot of the struggle in my heart as a young person with no answers, I didn't know if my sister was going to be okay. And I. I mean, I watched her be resuscitated by my mom. I had to call the ambulance. Like, I mean, we. We lived through some really hard days that were really scary. But what I do know is what we were teaching, the love that was filling our home in that time was a great consolation, even in the midst of the cross.

Father Mike Schmitz (12:17)

Wow. So one of the things I'm hearing you say is that it was hard, but in the midst of that difficulty, in the midst of the weight that you were bearing as a sister, what you're bearing as a daughter of your parents and as a beloved of God, as a daughter of God, as a Christian, there's the weight of the suffering, the weight of the. But also that you are free to bring that suffering, that those questions. You were free to bring that pain, that grief, free to bring that to the Lord in the sense of, like, yeah, you said, I don't necessarily know what's going on, but I know who you are, God. And so there's. You didn't have to also carry that additional burden of, I need to figure this out or I need to. Wrestling with the Lord as opposed to, like, no, I can bring my grief to the Lord. Is that accurate, or am I just beautifully said?

Elizabeth Marcolini (13:11)

Yes. I. I think at times. And who hasn't? Like, we're like, ram, the Lord, you know, And. And I think that so much of that agony comes from asking why. But I remember there's a story we wrote about in Bella's Gift, My Poor Dad. It became the story that was, like, talked about in this book. But we. So when Bella was in the nicu, my mom, she is seven years younger than my youngest brother. So she was this kind of miracle baby that, again, God knew we needed each one of us in our family. I could sit and tell you stories about how each one of us needed. Needed her. But because of that, my parents had to reset up a nursery. And so they ordered this crib mattress. It comes in the boxes in the garage. I was unpacking it. She was delivered a little bit early. And my dad comes out as I take the mat, the crib mattress out, and I'll never forget, he looks at me and he's like, what are you doing? I was, like, going to tear it up and put it in the recycling bin. And he says, you know, we don't know yet if she's going to need that And I looked at him, and I was livid. Like, I was furious. I was like. I was like, if you don't have hope in her, who will? And. And so I think that those were some of the moments in our family that were tough of, like, kind of even the things that maybe we were afraid to say that we were like. Like, we have to. But we have to hope for her. We have to believe in her. We have to fight for her. And I ripped up the box. But. So I think maybe that was how I process some anger, some good recycling. But I don't know.

Father Mike Schmitz (14:36)

Well, no, that's. That's fascinating because you're talking about when there. When there's shared grief and there's shared suffering in a family, this happens, you know, in a marriage as well, where there's. We're all experiencing this grief. We're experiencing it in different ways, and we process it in different ways. And I think that's one of the reasons why so often, sometimes that grief can tear couples apart.

Elizabeth Marcolini (14:58)

Yes.

Father Mike Schmitz (14:59)

Because not. Not that you're affected and I'm not, or I'm affected and you're not, but because we. We do this in different ways. We're. We're affected in different ways, and we're in different paces. And so even, like, for your to say, like, no, this is a statement I'm making is I'm throwing up this. Tearing up this box and throwing it away, as opposed to. Maybe your dad would be like, well, just. Just in case, you know, that kind of situation and how that can be. This. That could have been a great wedge that your. Your fury might have.

Elizabeth Marcolini (15:26)

Totally. Totally. And yeah, I think that's exactly right. I mean, I. My parents were so thoughtful, I think, in the way they navigated that. Like, they made sure that, like, we had someone come, like, it was a family counselor and was like, hey, how did that feel? Like, you know, sharing and talking about things that were scary and hard and I think just being able to be vulnerable with each other, to know that. To not dismiss that this was a change, but also they were so emphatic and in, like, the acknowledgment of her beauty and her dignity, even in the midst of the cross, that. I think that that deeply shaped not just our love for her, of course. Like, we loved her regardless of that, but.

Father Mike Schmitz (16:05)

Yeah.

Elizabeth Marcolini (16:05)

But how we viewed her, that it wasn't a burden, it was a gift.

Father Mike Schmitz (16:09)

Wow. Which is. So. I. I don't want to be insensitive, but ask a question if you.

Elizabeth Marcolini (16:16)

I mean, no. Have at it.

Father Mike Schmitz (16:18)

Because your book is Bella's gift. You have said that Bella has been such a gift to every member of your family. Was there ever a part. I mean, and you had to fight for her life. I mean, you had to fight for her to stay alive. Many times you mentioned your mom had to resuscitate her when someone, you know that. That those dark thoughts of, like, maybe just be easier if you just allow. You know what? Just allow her.

Elizabeth Marcolini (16:46)

Yeah. Let.

Father Mike Schmitz (16:47)

Let her. Let her. What? What? Again, I don't want to be insensitive.

Elizabeth Marcolini (16:51)

No, no, I. I think this is a gift.

Father Mike Schmitz (16:53)

But what. Yeah. What would you say? I can't even get the words out.

Elizabeth Marcolini (16:56)

No, it's a very real battle, I think in our world right now is, you know, things like assisted suicide or euthanasia. Right? Where it's like, it would actually be more merciful if we just. If we avoided suffering, if. If we kind of put it away and, you know, it's really the merciful thing. I know in my life with my sister and, and don't get me wrong, like, we work so hard to make sure that her life is like. I always joke that when I retire, I would like to live like Bella. She lives a very joyful, comfortable, beautiful life. She goes swimming every day. She goes on walks. She gets to watch frozen as much as she wants. She has a great life. And so her life is truly filled with joy. But that doesn't mean that there haven't been has, you know, crosses or sufferings with that. But you know what's funny? I watch Bella and I think her suffering is just different. Her suffering is different than mine. Bella is simple in the sense that her heart, like, she doesn't bear the cross of, like, heartache or emotionally complex relationships. She doesn't turn on the news and wonder what's going to happen and, you know, be filled with anxiety, like, you know. But sometimes. Is she in pain because of, like, the cross that God has asked her to carry? Yes. But does that mean that her joy is not. Honestly, I. There have been days where, like, in our family, like, we always joke. Bella's like a vault. Like, she's like, holds our secrets. But, like, we're like all of us growing up, we would just, like, want to hold her and love her and talk to her and just be loved by her because there is so much peace from her. I really can't put it into words. It's being, I think, in the presence of a saint, just a soul that's so, so beautiful and so close to the Lord. But again, I think her cross is just. Is different. And I think for us to, as a society reduce physical pain and to avoid suffering, we. We're missing out. We're missing out on the gift. I mean, I know in my own life, the greatest lessons I've learned have always been. Have always been in the cross. It's. It hasn't been in the times of joy. So. So I think, again, like, not to say that those times aren't important, but I think they're great teachers for us. And the same way these souls, I think, in their crosses teach us things.

Father Mike Schmitz (19:05)

Well, that's. That's so well put. I be. You mentioned that when it comes to, like, say, assisted suicide, that's seen as the merciful thing. And as you said that, I thought in relation to your sister, I was like, that's not. That's not. That's the convenient thing.

Elizabeth Marcolini (19:21)

Yes.

Father Mike Schmitz (19:22)

It's not the merciful thing.

Elizabeth Marcolini (19:24)

Exactly.

Father Mike Schmitz (19:25)

It's not only am I. I don't want you to experience this pain. I don't want to experience the pain.

Elizabeth Marcolini (19:30)

That's right. I don't want to watch your experience. I don't. I don't care for you. I don't want to be a part of that. Because. Yes. I think that I'm getting excited because I think you're exactly right.

Father Mike Schmitz (19:41)

Okay.

Elizabeth Marcolini (19:41)

Yeah.

Father Mike Schmitz (19:41)

So that's. Because that just struck me as the. Yeah. And I can convince myself that there is a mercy there. And maybe there's. Maybe there is a mercy there. Maybe there is some kind of a sense of, I don't want you to suffer. But I think the motivation is not that. The motivation is convenience. And yet. Because as you noted, it's cost your family, like every person, even though they get to hold Bella, even though they get to love on Bella, even though she's loved that. And that's the reality, of course, is that love always. I always say this after the fall. Love always involves sacrifice. It has to. Because if it doesn't, then it's. Then it's convenience. It's not love.

Elizabeth Marcolini (20:25)

Beautiful. That's true. Our family life is different because of her. I watch, you know, again, each member of our family has kind of this beautiful, unique relationship with Bella. And I think something that maybe she has uniquely taught them. My dad always says that Bella taught him that that must be the way that God looks at me, that I am totally dependent upon him for everything. Like, you know, Bella can't feed herself or, you know, walk somewhere to get what she needs. Like, she Needs us for everything. But in the same way, the air we breathe, like the life in our body, like that is a gift right now from the Lord. Like we're held in existence because he is thinking about us constantly. And I think in the same way for our family, we have learned so much about faith just through watching her live the life that she lives. Not. Not even doing anything, just her existence has been a great teacher. But yes, our life does look different. My parents, as they're, you know, they're in their 60s right now, and I think that they're looking at a lot of their friends are taking fun trips and, you know, in just enjoying maybe a different season of life. And they. They're still up with my sister at night, and they haven't gotten, I think, a great night's sleep in 17 years. But you will never hear them complain because they gen. And that's not lip service. They. They genuinely have. Feel as though they have nothing to complain about. But that type of mysticism, I almost want to say mysticism, because it feels like the right world, because outside in you look at that and it's like, what like, you know, like to be woken up in the middle of the night for a dsap for that long. Like, how are you not complaining? But I think it's to know that kind of love.

Father Mike Schmitz (22:05)

Well, that makes so much sense. And you even said that your sister is like a living saint. And I love that because that is that captive that captures in so many ways. What most of us think when we think of a saint is we think of someone who does great things. We think of someone who does great things for God, who has great courage, who has great love, all these kind of things, as opposed to that reality that God is the one who makes us saints and we just. If we are willing to receive his grace and receive his love, then that is what makes a saint like this. That. And so here's Bella as this example of not only a great gift for your family and to the world, but also here's a massive gift that she is to the church in the sense that even about many things, but one is shows us what it really is to be a saint. Why is it Mary? Why is Our lady the greatest saint of all? Not because she did the most incredible things, but because she allowed the Lord to love in her weakness. She allowed the Lord to do something through her. Not in her power, but in her. In her weakness. And there's something powerful about that.

Elizabeth Marcolini (23:14)

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I, you know, at Mass, On Sunday, our youngest son is one and he just learned to walk and he's really chubby and really cute. And there's a girl, this elderly couple, and they bring their daughter who's in a wheelchair. And Enzo loves Bella. Like he, whenever we're at my parents house, he wants to go and give her kisses. He says, bubba. He runs to her room. He's one and, and she is like a celebrity to him. Like we, we can't even teach him that. He's just one. He doesn't know what we're talking about. He doesn't understand who she is. But he there, he feels her joy and her love and he loves being with her. And so when we saw this couple at mass, he ran up to them and was waving at her and he ran up and gave her a kiss on her leg. And as I watched that as a mother, I was like, how many of these special kids is the world deprived of because we're missing them? And how, how many kids like Enzo, how many beautiful little kids who just see their beauty, see their dignity and are like, they're amazing. And also Aunt Bella has the coolest toys, you know, and like. But to be taught that at such a young age, to see that dignity and to like be kind of unfettered, like by the only boundary we know is love, that kind of just freedom to be like they see the dignity, see the joy, to not see the chair is some restriction. Bella taught him that. We didn't teach him that. And I, I hope that, that everyone listening to this has the opportunity to know and teach their children about that kind of love and receptivity that you were talking about. About.

Father Mike Schmitz (24:47)

Well, that's, that's, that's what this whole, this episode about like called to love the vulnerable. Right? That, that sense of who are those people among us who their weakness is on display. Right. In so many ways we're all vulnerable. But, but not all of our weaknesses are, are, are visible. Not all of our weaknesses are so clearly seen. If God is love and we're made of God's image and likeness, then we're made for love. And so this recognition of being able to love those who may not be able to give anything back, or those whose wounds are, or weaknesses are on display. It just seems like it's not the place you finish. It's almost the place where you start loving is, is. Yeah. Now you mentioned you have your, your sister Bella, but also your daughter Zelie, that she came into your life because of the Bella's gift or how can you tell us the story a little about Zellie?

Elizabeth Marcolini (25:48)

Yeah. You know, this is a story that only God could write. And I share this in all humility, because it's the Lord's story. It's not ours. It has nothing to do with our goodness, our worthiness, anything like that, because it's just. It's incredible. So my husband and I were foster parents. We never actually fostered. We were foster parents for about four months before this story happened. But a friend of mine was sitting at daily mass, and the priest afterwards got up and said, you know, we're a pro life parish. There's a mom who's pregnant with a child with special needs, and she's due in two weeks, and she hasn't picked an adoptive family. And my friend, who at the time we were not, like, planning to adopt, we were foster parents. But she said, liz, I was sitting in front of a statue of the holy family, and I heard Liz and Matt. And so she said, all right, Holy Spirit. She found. The priest connected us with, you know, this birth mother. 24 hours later, we were on a zoom call with her and her Gabriel project worker, who I have such a special love for the Gabriel project and what they do. And, you know, we're chatting and kind of un. You know, unsure of, like, what is happening here or what, if anything's gonna happen. We. We just wanted to be there to receive her. You know, we thought we could share about Bella, like, who knows? And at one point, the, you know, birth mother says on the phone, she says, you know, I think we have a mutual friend, Sister Mary, with the Sisters of Life. And I was like, get out. That's crazy. And it, like, hits me like a ton of bricks. I was like, when is your due date? She said, October 13th. I'm, like, kicking Matt under the table. I'm like, we've been praying for you for four months. Sister Mary had emailed me and said, elizabeth, I just am getting this in prayer that you need to be praying for this moment. Like, no names, no details. She just. All she told me was her due date, October 13th. And, you know, we're amazed by this connection. On the call, we're like, wow, that's amazing. And she said, you know, thank you. That's not why I share that story with you. She said, it's because Sister Mary gave me the book that you wrote about your sister gift. And she said, I. You know, when we found out the diagnosis and everything, and she said, I want you to know I just read your part. You're forward. And she said, and I want you to know that reading that gave me a lot of courage in this pregnancy to, like, you know, kind of make the long journey. And she said, so we. I. I kept that book on my dresser, and I would look at Bella's picture, and every day I would pray that God would give this baby a family that would love her like Bella's family loves her.

Father Mike Schmitz (28:22)

Wow.

Elizabeth Marcolini (28:23)

And when she shared that on the call, I was like, only the Lord can do this. I was like, so tell me more about her disabilities. And she said, that's the funny thing, too. She said, I know that Bella has an extra 18th chromosome. She said, this baby has a little bit less of their 18th chromosome. She said, I listened to that, and I thought, together they make the perfect whole. And so we, you know, after. Long story short, we. We met in person. This was 10 days before Zellie was born. And she asked us to. To be her parents. And we were joyful and tearful and overwhelmed, and we're like, okay, 10 days. Let's go. And we said, yes. And there were truly so many miracles, Honestly, too many to fill this call of, like, getting to the point. Like, because we were foster parents, the county had to release our home study. That in itself was, like, this huge ordeal. And miraculously, like, we, you know, we had it released and were able to adopt and get everything in order in time for her birth. And Zellie is our rock star. She is, again, she is a great teacher of love. Yeah. I probably won't be able to talk about her without crying, but. But she is. Yeah, she is my heart. And I. I love my girl.

Father Mike Schmitz (29:48)

That's. That's incredible. So I. I just. How old is she right now, if I can ask?

Elizabeth Marcolini (29:54)

Yeah. Zelie just turned four.

Father Mike Schmitz (29:56)

Okay. Because this is. This is fascinating to me, too, Sister Mary. Amazing connection. I actually. I think the one time I think I've met your parents.

Elizabeth Marcolini (30:09)

Yes, I think so, too.

Father Mike Schmitz (30:11)

And the one time I met your parents was in the middle of all this happening, I think, because it's something like. It's right around that this season, because they say, hey, can you pray for our daughter? And then kind of spelled out a little bit of what was going on. I was like, oh, yeah, of course. You know. Yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth Marcolini (30:27)

Well, thank you.

Father Mike Schmitz (30:28)

As you're describing this, I'm thinking, wait a second. I was just praying for this. Like, oh, my gosh. It's not every day that you, you.

Elizabeth Marcolini (30:36)

Know, I thank God for it, because, no, you know, no one stands in receipt of A miracle. And I think that the only way. Describe that as a miracle, like only God can do that, you know, and no one stands in receipt of a miracle alone.

Father Mike Schmitz (30:47)

So in, in that you mentioned a couple things, but one is the Gabriel Project. You say something about what, what, what is the Gabriel Project?

Elizabeth Marcolini (30:54)

It's a wonderful way, I think, to be involved if you want to get into the work, I think with, you know, vulnerable populations and it. They work with. I, I don't know, I. Forgive me if this is not exactly what their mission is, but I believe that their work is they work with abortion minded women to help carry to term. So just to like, be a friend, to kind of counsel take that phone call when they're afraid or they get that adverse prenatal diagnosis to connect them with resources. That's another amazing story. We asked Ellie's birth mom, we were like, how did you get in touch with the Gabriel Project? And Sister Mary? And she said, that's a funny story. She said, I wasn't practicing. My phone was broken. And I looked down at it one day, it had kept calling people in my contacts randomly. And she said it had called my old, old parish priest. And she said, this was around the time that I found out about her diagnosis. I was really scared. She said. I picked up the phone and Father answered. And he was saying like, hello? Like, hello? Yeah, yeah, is anyone there? And. And he was, he was like, oh, sorry, Father, haven't talked to you in a long time. But like, you know, and he took the time going back to like making room for mercy. Right. He wasn't like, okay, well, good to hear from you. Come back to church sometime. Right? Like, he was like, how are you? And she was like, you know, actually, I'm not so good. And he said, well, why don't you come to my office and let's talk. And so that was there that he was connected with Sister Mary and the sisters and the Gabriel project and another resource that was, you know, on knew more about adverse prenatal diagnoses. And, and so that was her support system, that one phone call that should have never been made from broken stone.

Father Mike Schmitz (32:35)

Wow.

Elizabeth Marcolini (32:35)

You know those moments in life where it's just so good and it's so beautiful, you almost feel like you see the other side of the tapestry.

Father Mike Schmitz (32:41)

Right, right.

Elizabeth Marcolini (32:42)

You know, sometimes it's like these snipped edges and these weird colors and you're like, what is happening, Lord, what are you doing? And. And then you flip it and you get to see, oh my gosh, this was what you were doing all along. And I, I think that must be what heaven will feel like again and again. Like, Lord, like, you are so much bigger than we could have ever imagined. And I think, to me, Zelie's story feels a lot more like that. But I, I, I. I give credit to where credit is due to the love that begets love, that gets love, that my parents in love, welcoming Bella and teaching us to love her and us in return. Loving her. I think that changed my heart. I don't know if I would have had the same response to Zellie if I hadn't had Bella. Like, I don't know that I would have maybe had the courage. And to be honest, I. Matt and I were quite private about her disabilities for a long time because I think we. We didn't want people to look at us and be like, oh, you were so great. Like, you, You. You know, like. And I know that sounds funny, but, like, we actually didn't tell anyone for the first three years of her life. And then eventually we were like, you know what? It's probably most charitable and fair to her that, like, people understand, like, who she is.

Father Mike Schmitz (33:49)

Right.

Elizabeth Marcolini (33:50)

But to us, it felt like, again, it was an invitation to love. I. We're not heroes. We're not martyrs. Like, we just understand that love begets love. And I watch my Gigi and my Enzo love their sister, and I know the gift that she will be to them because I have lived it.

Father Mike Schmitz (34:05)

Yeah, you mentioned love and how. Gosh, I even imagine that there's a piece where you have the courage because you've been with your parents who have done this, and you've done this with you and your siblings, with Bella, and you've also seen that the more you love, the more love grows is again, going back to. You mentioned, you see the tapestry, like, maybe the front side of the tapestry a little bit, where he's like, all these connections and seeing these pieces. But go back to Bella when you were in 17, and you're saying, okay, God, I don't know what's going on. So I don't see the front of the tapestry. I only see the back of the tapestry. It's just pain. It's just tragedy. It's just suffering right now, but would you say that. And this might be out of left field, but when it comes to faith, which is, you know, that hope, trust in things unseen, trust in the Lord through all seasons, what role have you seen? Faith. Because there's love that grows. When you give love, it grows. What role have you seen faith play in the role of those people in the lives of those people who are loving, those with special needs or with disabilities?

Elizabeth Marcolini (35:19)

Such a good question. Yeah. I think that. I think you can see the dignity and beauty and value of these children without faith. I want to say that first, I think. I think that as a society, regardless of our faith, that we can look and understand not through utilitarian contribution, but we can look and see that every human has dignity and value not because of what they produce, but because of who they are. I think that we can kind of agree on that from a.

Father Mike Schmitz (35:49)

Right. That's really good.

Elizabeth Marcolini (35:51)

I don't think we need the eyes of faith to. To see that. But I do think, I know in my own life and in knowing this kind of special community, that it is sort of the light by which illuminates all else. I think for us that, you know, when I was, you know, giving Zelie a bath or I was at her bedside after a surgery or, you know, cleaning her G tube or whatever it was that I was caring for Jesus. Right? Like, you know, it. It just informs everything. It can't not inform everything. And so I think, especially when you are caring in a special way for a child that will always need me, I think that it, it invites you, I think, into Nazareth in a very special way. Like, I think Our Lady. I. I've always loved Our lady, but I think I have relied on Our lady through my motherhood, especially because it began with Zellie. I would be a different mom if Zellie was not my first child. She. She put me in a place of, again, like, receptivity, of radical trust. Like, I would have my mom. My husband always jokes, I would have been an Asian tiger mom if not for Zelda. Like, so thank God, like Gianna and Enzo. You can thank God that your mom had Zelli. But, but, but I think about again, like that, that pull into kind of the hiddenness of Nazareth. And I think how faith can be supportive of that reality, because I do know a common thread of, Of a lot. Lot of families who have these special kids is you can feel alone.

Father Mike Schmitz (37:16)

Yeah.

Elizabeth Marcolini (37:17)

Really alone.

Father Mike Schmitz (37:18)

If parents find themselves, or older children find themselves in a position where you find yourself and they say, what's. What's a what, what? How can I pray so that it. It what? Are there any prayers? I can pray so that it helps me see the face of Jesus in my child with special needs more. And maybe there is a, A special prayer, but is there something else or a spiritual practice like. Or is it just. No, this is the lens.

Elizabeth Marcolini (37:45)

I think maybe both. And from. From my. My experience, I think it is just a lens by which you see all else. I think. And I think to me, like, being steeped in, like, stories of other people who continue to do this way better than me. Right? Like, you know, there's so much. We live in an age where we have never had more access to great inspirational faith content, like, starting with Ascension and Hallow. I mean, you name it. Like, we have, like, at our fingertips, like, days and probably years worth of content. So I think to me, that's always an encouragement. When I feel dry, I try to go to the well, like, even if that means I'm in my kitchen just trying to fill up, you know, Like, I remember, like, a few weeks ago I listened to Mother Teresa's Nobel peach price, like, while I was doing dishes, you know, and that was accessible to me. Right. You don't have to be sufficient as a parent, as a person, as a special needs parent. Like Jesus never once calls us to sufficiency. He calls us to surrender. And I think that as a parent, that has been part of the great humility. And I thank God for it because we are ever on a path to becoming littler and littler and littler. And in that, I think we find Jesus more and more and more. And so I know in my parenthood and in my love for my daughter, I pray that I am smaller next year and the year after that. And I think that just requires me knowing actually that I don't know at all and being okay with that. So I do my best to love them, I feel every day. But I know that the Lord, I pray every night. Like, I. Whenever I leave their room, I. Like, it's a silent prayer, but I'm always like, mama Mary, it's your shift. Like, I'm gonna sleep tonight, but you are on night duty. Like, I can't do this. I can't do it 24 hours a day and just really, like, trying to lean in, like, to where I am, I am insufficient. But like, Lord, you are abundant and you multiply my stinky fish and my loaves every day, and you make it enough. Like, I pray you make it enough for my babies.

Father Mike Schmitz (39:39)

Yeah, that's so hard when. When. When a control. But, like, okay, I'm not sufficient, but I can surrender.

Elizabeth Marcolini (39:46)

So the surrender novena probably practically is a really good one. Yeah.

Father Mike Schmitz (39:50)

Yeah. You live it. You had mentioned, I think you had the way you had said it was so powerful. You said something along the lines of the Zelie will always need me. And, and I think that sometimes that is a fear of some parents that, that fear of like okay, when they're 18 that they're not moving out and they're not going to become self sufficient. It's they're going to be dependent on me still. And there can be. I mean I'm not just afraid of this moment, I'm afraid of the future. A, is that accurate? And B, what would you say if that is accurate to those people, those parents who got a diagnosis first?

Elizabeth Marcolini (40:24)

I have, I have been there with you. You're not alone. I know at times I. Zelli has severe autism is just part of who. How God made her. And, and so she's non verbal where yesterday she actually did something really exciting. She handed us a card to tell us what she wanted and I cried. I. We have been working for a year for her to be able to do that. And so I guess I'm gonna kind of answer this from around about way but your joys as a parent and your fears will be none of what you thought they would be. I never thought that Zelli handing me a card that says ice cubes would have me in tears. But you, you feel with these kids though they reframe everything for you. So the thing that you become afraid of like oh my gosh, when they're 18 and you know they, they're not going to leave the house, what will my life look like? You almost can't imagine the road you're going to be on. So I would just say to like let the Lord walk with you day by day because he will transform your heart and all of this and you will be amazed like when Zellie is so loves her life, like I mean her joy like in its infectious to her siblings, like when she finds something funny, she will be on the floor dying, laughing and we're laughing because she just is contagious. And so in the same way that like your victories look different, your, your sorrows look different, your joys look different. But like be not afraid to let the Lord magnify. Don't be afraid to be generous. I know like if you are listening to this and your child has been diagnosed with something that is scary to you, first of all, I wish I could give you a hug. I know that they can feel scary and overwhelming to not have all the answers but know like and I want to speak to this too as an adoptive parent of a child with special needs. Your child is loved, your child is wanted, your Child has a purpose. And if that's not with your family, have the courage to give that gift to another family that will love and welcome that child like we have with Zoe. As I said before, Zoe is my heart. She is the heart of our family. So if you are in a position where you're thinking that you will parent, but you're feeling afraid, there are so many great resources out there. There are communities of parents for pretty much every disability you can think of. Lean on them, learn from them, but just know you're not alone. Even though the journey feels. It's sometimes lonely, you are going to be transformed by it. I. I have never met a special needs family where that's. And that's really not lip service. It's a true reality of people of faith and of no faith alike.

Father Mike Schmitz (43:06)

Wow. Is that in that. So this. That word. Both to those who are. Are pregnant with a child who has the prenatal diagnosis, and they're not. They don't know if they would be willing to raise that child. Love that child for life. I really so much appreciate your word of encouragement that even if not your family, let some other family be the family that loves your child.

Elizabeth Marcolini (43:31)

Because, you know, I have to. Okay. Father Mike, there was 60 families when that priest announced that in that one parish that said, we will. We would love this child, we will take this child. We will figure it out in one parish. So I. I believe that. Yeah. The. The lie that these children are unwanted, that they will. They'll suffer. They're a burden. I think it is. It is a lie. I live. I. I watched that lie, like, walk around every day. A child that was told we would. Would never walk, who learned to walk like. These kids are amazing.

Father Mike Schmitz (44:03)

Yeah. And. And in the Lord, out of those 60 families, the Lord wanted you and Matt to be Zelly's mom and dad, which is amazing. That's incredible, too. And. And the fact that, again, some of the. You've said it so well, that when it comes to our fear, we don't. The. The things you. The things that break your heart and things that give your heart so much joy are. Are not things you would have imagined. And that's. And how many times is that true for almost everything in life. And we forget it. We say, no, I need to hold on to this. Whatever. This, I think, is the most important thing in the world right now. And yet we allow the Lord to move. There's something he does. I mean, so, like, for example, your newest book, the Pocket Guide to Works of Mercy, which We talked about, which began as an etiquette book. What was the name of the Miss Manners.

Elizabeth Marcolini (44:55)

Yeah, exactly.

Father Mike Schmitz (44:56)

But now is not. That is more than that. It really builds on these themes, right? The themes that you. We're looking. We look into the face of those who are vulnerable. We're looking in the face of Jesus. We look in the face of our neighbor. We're looking in the face of Jesus. So the Catholic initiative and through this called podcast, which has been Inspired by Matthew 25. Right. That I've shared this in other times where I read Matthew 25 of. I was naked and you clothed me. I was hungry and you fed me. And I just remember thinking, God, how. How do I do that? And how do I not miss. Miss the. Those opportunities when it comes to your writing that book? I know it started as an etiquette book, but you can't finish a book if it's merely a book on etiquette. I mean, you know what I mean? You can't finish a book on the corporal works of mercy and the works of mercy unless there's something that. That you realize, okay, people need to know this. So. So what. What was that thing? What was that thing that moved you? And not just to start, but to. To finish it to the end, this book on the works of mercy.

Elizabeth Marcolini (46:14)

Yeah. I, you know, I think that a lot of what you shared and you know, we shared on this call of like the. The kind of. The hiddenness of a lot of this life of, you know, caring for like, the sick or the vulnerable. But I think that as we went through the work, something that really ignited my heart on fire was, I think the. The practical options out there for everyone to live mercy in whatever their state of life was. I think that that was something that when we began, we. The three of us kind of sat together and we were like, what do we think are obstacles to someone picking up this book? And, you know, we talked to friends and family and it was like, well, that. It's not really for me was kind of the. The thing at the end that we got to like, you know, visiting me in prison, that's kind of uncomfortable. Like, you know, praying for the die. I can do that one, you know, but, like, there's a lot of these that kind of make me uncomfortable. Right. And so I think we. We had this huge desire to be like, not only is this who Jesus was, it's not just like, what he taught, but, like, look at how he lived. Like, he went and wept for his friend and grieved with him like, and he was going to raise him from the dead. So don't you think he was kind of teaching us something about maybe how we should relate to each other? Like, you know, Jesus again and again, so many of his greatest miracles. I think the hemorrhage is one I think we might have talked about. I'm trying to remember what you picked, but now, but is he was interrupted. I think he was going to jairus his house, right? And you know, that was an interruption. Like he. But he had time to stop and be like, okay, what's happening here? And so I think that that really animated us as we wrote the book that like who Jesus was. How do we model that in our life? And it doesn't need to be complicated. Like we can all do this no matter our season of life.

Father Mike Schmitz (47:57)

Could you say something about that doesn't need to be complicated? Because I know that I would tend to complicate it. So when you said does it need to be complicated? What do you.

Elizabeth Marcolini (48:06)

Yeah, so simple. So I think, you know, let's take a. And you know, an easy one. Like we were just talking about like maybe the loneliness of caring for a special needs child. So practical example, I'm sure that there are people, if you're listening to this in your community, in your parish where that is the case, right? Where they, you know, maybe it's not a special needs child, maybe it's an elderly parent, maybe it's a sick child or. But practical example, you probably make dinner for your family every night, make a little extra and bring it to them. Like simple, like take something that you're doing already and like overthink it. But I, you know, I remember my brother was a great example of this to me. I'm very good friend of his, had cancer which ended up taking her life. And through that suffering of watching him and my sister in law love her was so inspiring to me because they lived this book in a very real way. They lived these works because they would go and like take their car to the gas station and just refill it with gas. Like they wouldn't ask, they would just like go. They knew they left the keys in the car. And so they'd be like, hey, your gas tank is full. Like you don't need to worry about it on the next hospital run. Like, you know, but like, yeah, I think they to me like were great models of that. Of not over complicating it. Because I think the opposite of over complicating it really. And I feel like I'm Trying to learn this in my own life is just showing up.

Father Mike Schmitz (49:28)

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Just do the thing.

Elizabeth Marcolini (49:32)

Just do the thing. Yeah.

Father Mike Schmitz (49:34)

You know, there's. It's funny you mentioned that about just. Just do it as opposed to, like, we wrestle with it. So I was talking with a priest brother of mine who. We're in the same, like, priest fraternity group. We just kind of support each other and whatnot. And he was. He was sharing about how when he gets hospital calls, we live in here in Duluth, and there's a couple different big hospitals. And there's, you know, a preacher, too, who's like, that's their assignment is working as a traveling hospital. And he's not that. He's in a parish, a couple different parishes. And he said, you know, at first they'd call, and I'd be like, oh, why haven't you. Why haven't you called the. Have you. Have you tried calling the chaplain? Have you tried doing this? And, like, let's find someone else. And if I'm in the middle of something. And he said, I just decided when I get called, I'm going to go. And it was one of those. And you might say, well, that's your job, bro.

Elizabeth Marcolini (50:20)

But, no, it's true.

Father Mike Schmitz (50:22)

But it isn't. You know, in some ways, there's someone else. That's their job. But he was like, no, if I'm called, I'm gonna go.

Elizabeth Marcolini (50:28)

I'm gonna go.

Father Mike Schmitz (50:29)

And. And. And there's that sense of over complicating it.

Elizabeth Marcolini (50:34)

Yeah.

Father Mike Schmitz (50:34)

Well, how much time is it going to take? And how many. Like, the gas.

Elizabeth Marcolini (50:39)

Yes.

Father Mike Schmitz (50:39)

Okay. I'm gonna take their car. I know where the keys are. I'm gonna fill up with the gas because I know that. I know they need it. I know at some point they're gonna need it. I don't have to. I mean, grand larceny is one thing. I mean, information, but just do it. Just take the car.

Elizabeth Marcolini (50:55)

No, I. I think that's right. I think, you know, so often it's like, I even know this, like, with friends, where I'm like, you know, in this again, work of mercy. But, like, you know, the friend that's going through a hard time and. You feel me? Let's talk about, like, counseling, right? Like, someone who has, like, questions of faith and, like, wanting to be there for them instead of being like, hey, I'd love to, like, have coffee. Can we find a date in six weeks? That would work for both of us. You know, just, like, show up to their house one day. With a coffee and just give them a hug and be like, hey, like, I just want you to know I love you.

Father Mike Schmitz (51:23)

Yeah.

Elizabeth Marcolini (51:23)

Like, we. I. And again, that is, like, the opposite of my personality. My husband says, if there's a plan, I made it, you know, like. And so I like. But I know that living this way has held me accountable because I've had moments where I've actually regretted the fact that I didn't make room and I didn't slow down and I didn't just do the thing. I was walking into the pharmacy one day, and there was a man that was kind of walking with me, and he was. Had some. A physical disability, was struggling to walk in. So I held the door for him, and he was delighted that I made eye contact with him. And so he starts chatting, and, you know, we're kind of making small talk going into the pharmacy. And I could tell that he wanted to keep talking. And I'm like, I gotta go. Like, you know, gotta go home. Like, gotta make dinner. I gotta. I gotta do other things right than what's happening in this moment. And so I kind of cut it off and I, you know, left the store and I was driving home, and I was like. It felt like a ton of bricks. I was like, what are you doing?

Father Mike Schmitz (52:20)

Right?

Elizabeth Marcolini (52:20)

Like, what are you doing? Like, that was Jesus. And you were like, sorry, I have to go make spaghetti. You know, and, like, I'm. I'm not saying, like, we. Obviously, we have obligations in a way of life, but to spend five extra minutes with someone who I knew, like, wanted that conversation, like, just to, like, see a friend or, like, hear, you know, talk about the weather, whatever it was. I. I think that there's actually a study done at Princeton Seminary about this.

Father Mike Schmitz (52:45)

Yeah.

Elizabeth Marcolini (52:46)

You probably heard about this, right?

Father Mike Schmitz (52:48)

The Good Samaritan sermon. Yeah.

Elizabeth Marcolini (52:51)

Don't you think that is a part of this work? Like, that, like, to live mercy, we need to actually, like, have room to, like, meet the other person. Because I know for me, when I'm rushed, it's so hard to do that.

Father Mike Schmitz (53:03)

Well, that's. And that's the thing. So. So as you referenced, for the people who might not know, that at Princeton Seminary they had this experiment where they had the seminarians, and this is a Protestant seminary, I believe. But they had written a sermon or a paper on the parable of the Good Samaritan, and then they had to go deliver their speech and deliver the message at some point across campus. And they put someone in their way who was clearly in distress. And they all Wanted to stop. But the main reason they wouldn't. If I'm writing on this, Elizabeth, the main reason they wouldn't is if they were told one of three things. Either you have no, you're late. You need to get there now. Their likelihood of stopping was like 9%. You're right on time. Their likelihood of stopping was maybe 20 or whatever percent. And it's like, oh, you have all the time in the world. That's when the most percentage of people stopped. And it wasn't a matter of concern, wasn't a matter of care, was a matter of lack of love. It was, I just don't think I have lack of. I don't think I have time. I don't have the. I don't have the space in my life for you. Yeah, and that, and that, that's the key, right? In so many ways, like, I want to love. My life is just too full, or maybe it's too controlled, that I'm not giving myself permission to love the person in front of me.

Elizabeth Marcolini (54:18)

I think that's it. I mean, I, I. We talk about this in the book because we're like, we can talk about all the practical tips all day, every day. The prayers, the reflections, the why, the heart of Jesus. But, like, we're our call in this book is make room. Like, make room because we live in a world of distraction. I know we talk about that and hear about that a lot, but I think it's real. Like, I know when you're in the grocery store checkout, like, I know I'm doing this. I'm looking at my own, you know, like, I'm not, like, making eyes with the person across from me and being like, jesus, is that you? You know, like, how can I, like, just, like, be friendly and be warm and like, that is, I think, kind of the, the foundation of this message we were trying to come across is to, to live them, to know them, to want to practice them, but then to give room in your life for, for, like, that peace, that opportunity to meet him.

Father Mike Schmitz (55:08)

Yeah. Well, you know, you had mentioned earlier, too, the, the just do it kind of a approach to the works of mercy in that sense of, I want to. I'm going to schedule. Okay, where can I fit you in? And that at some point, you know, sometimes I'm just thinking about this, applying it to my life. I think that there are times where I have a student who says, hey, do you have time to talk? And I'm like, yeah, let's. Okay, next week. Oh, that's not Good. Maybe as opposed to sometimes, like, well, do you want to talk now? Yeah, I've got. I've got 20 minutes. And same thing with your friend. Who would want a coffee? Like, I can bring the coffee over and we can stand here. Here's your coffee. And maybe you have time right now, maybe you don't. And if you don't, I leave and you have your coffee. But there's that sense of. To act now. Could be. Gosh, that's so important. Now, I have one more question, if that's okay with you.

Elizabeth Marcolini (55:59)

Yes, of course.

Father Mike Schmitz (56:00)

And the question is, what would you say to someone who's listening to this podcast and they want to live out God's call for their life, but they don't know where to start? What would you say?

Elizabeth Marcolini (56:12)

You know, the answer. Father Mike would have been different years ago. So I give so much credit to my husband who's informed this answer. I just have to say that. So this is not natural, but it's been learned is, I think, to be generous with the Lord because He can't be outdone. And so whatever you feel he's calling you to do, like, do it. Like, do it now. Do it with vigor and love and joy and excitement and dive in, even if you're afraid. Because the best things in my life have always happened when I've been terrified and just trusted that the Lord was going to make more than I could imagine with that small. Yes, that's.

Father Mike Schmitz (56:49)

That's incredible. And thanks, Matt, for that one. No, that is remarkable. Yeah, that is. I mean, it seems to come up again and again that people's answers have something to do with what you said. Just be generous or be available. Just that sense of willing, be willing.

Elizabeth Marcolini (57:07)

And just don't think it. I mean, seriously, I think, like, I look back at our life, and I remember, like, my husband and I struggled for seven years with infertility and, you know, four years before Zelli, and we became foster parents because we both felt called to do this? I really struggled with it. I remember sitting in the county parking lot bawling my eyes out before the first session because I was like, matt, how could this be what got God wants? Like, how could this. Like, I, like, don't understand, like, how this needs to be our. Yes. Right now when, like, this is hard. Like, learning about these realities is. Is hard, and it's painful. And, like, I. I think, like, my thanks be to God, like, he did work in me through that season of that journey. But, like, whether it's like, foster care or the Gabriel project. We've heard of so many great things on this call. There's so many ways to say yes to the Lord. Just go. Just like, don't be afraid, even if you're crying in the parking lot. Like, I think that the apostles probably had a lot of parking lot tear dates, you know, Like, I. I gotta believe that. Right? Like. But like, they went anyway and they went to the end. And that's what I want in my life is to be afraid. But to do what? To be where God wants me, no matter my fear. Because I never, ever want that to stop me from being so close to.

Father Mike Schmitz (58:23)

Yeah. That's amazing. I don't know how this is gonna go.

Elizabeth Marcolini (58:26)

Yeah.

Father Mike Schmitz (58:27)

But I have to. But I have to go.

Elizabeth Marcolini (58:28)

But I have to go.

Father Mike Schmitz (58:29)

Yeah.

Elizabeth Marcolini (58:30)

I think it's so easy for us to be, like, really tight fisted with what the Lord has for us. And I know I have been like that at times in my life. I am as stubborn as they come. I'm Irish, I'm Italian. I'm like, I don't. Like, I get it. I'm a box ripper. I get it. Like, but. But like, what I've learned and what my spiritual director said to me a long time ago, it really changed my life. He was. Was like, look, detachment is like this. It's like being indifferent to the world. Like, flinging your arms out and not caring. Surrender is. Have an empty palm that wants to be filled. And like. And it's a different spiritual disposition of like, lord, like, fill me. Let me be generous with how I want you to fill these hands with whatever the work is you need them to do.

Father Mike Schmitz (59:10)

Yeah. Wow, that's. I like that difference between detachment and surrender. Yeah. Both good.

Elizabeth Marcolini (59:18)

Both good.

Father Mike Schmitz (59:19)

Okay. God, you're gonna give me something. You're calling me to something, and I want to say yes. Yet attachment. I'm willing to say no to whatever you want me to say no to. Surrender. I'm willing to say yes to whatever you want me to say yes to.

Elizabeth Marcolini (59:33)

The belief that there is more. Huh.

Father Mike Schmitz (59:35)

Yeah. Wow. Elizabeth, thank you so much taking this time and being on. On this call. Thank you for your yes, truly. And for your husband's yes. And for your family's yes. And I just so grateful, so grateful for your willingness to spend this time with us.

Elizabeth Marcolini (59:54)

No, this was my honor. Thank you for having me on.

Father Mike Schmitz (59:57)

Yeah, absolutely. And thanks to all of you for listening to called this podcast is made possible by the Catholic initiative, which is inspiring bold faith in action and are investing in vibrant but under resourced Catholic Communities and revitalizing local parishes, schools and other communities. If you want to learn more about the initiatives of the Catholic Initiative or the projects of the Catholic Initiative, or discover how you can make a difference, please visit TheCatholicInitiative.org that's the CatholicInitiative.org Remember, the gospel is more than words. The Gospel is a way of life. As Jesus reminds us in Matthew 25, when we serve the the least of these, we serve Him. So until next time, let's keep listening for God's call, and let's have the courage to answer it. God bless.