← Called (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Called (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Called to Walk with the Poor w/ Fr. Mike Schmitz and Kerry Robinson
00:58:26
In this episode of Called, Fr. Mike Schmitz sits down with Kerry Robinson, President and CEO of Catholic Charities USA, for a powerful conversation about what it truly means to “walk with the poor.” Kerry shares her remarkable lifelong journey of service — shaped by her family’s legacy of Catholic philanthropy, her early encounters with heroic witnesses of faith, and her vocational call to bring hope where it’s needed most. From her unexpected path into fundraising at Yale, to her leadership with Catholic Charities USA, Kerry reveals how answering God’s call often begins with simply refusing to look away from human suffering. Together, she and Fr. Mike explore: ✨ What “vocational living” means and why it changes everything ✨ How Catholic Charities serves millions with dignity, mercy, and the heart of the Gospel ✨ The power of accompaniment and why presence matters as much as service ✨ How ordinary Catholics can begin helping the poor right where they are ✨ Why collaboration betw...
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- [00:00]
A
Coming up in today's episode of Called.
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B
We don't serve people because they are Catholic. We serve people because we are Catholic.
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A
Right?
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B
We are called to see every person as our brother and sister. Every person. Just a couple of weeks ago, Pope Leo issued his very first apostolic exhortation, Dilexite, which is entirely devoted to the connection of the Eucharist, the parish, and love of the poor. You love God by loving what God loves each other, our common home that is deeply pleasing to God. We find our lives by giving them away. You will be amazed at how much life you gain in the process.
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A
If you've enjoyed learning about the Catholic Initiative and you want to see more of the impact happening across their projects, please tune into their Giving day broadcast on December 3rd at 7pm to learn more about the work that they're doing and how you can be part of it. Additional information can be found@thecatholicinitiative.org hi, my name is Fr. Mike Schmitz. Welcome to Called, a podcast from the Catholic Initiative produced in partnership with Ascension. When I joined the Catholic Initiative Board, I was immediately drawn to their mission, which is to renew the church by restoring parishes and schools, strengthening communities and serving those who are most vulnerable. It's a reminder that our faith is not only something that we believe, it has to be something that we live. This podcast is where we share those lived stories, stories of courage, of mercy, stories of hope that challenge us to step beyond our comfort and put the Gospel of Jesus Christ into action as He Himself teaches us. In Matthew 25:40, he said, Whatever you did for one of these least brothers or sisters of mine, you did for me. So let's get started. Today we're talking about what it means to walk with the poor, which is powerful because not just to serve from a distance, but to accompany, to advocate, to build relationships that reflect the heart of the Gospel. You know, In Luke, chapter 10, Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan. And he says this. He says, but a Samaritan traveler who came upon the man who was beaten, was moved with compassion at the sight of him. He approached the victim, poured oil and water or wine over his wounds and bandaged them. Then he lifted him onto his own animal, brought him to an inn, and cared for him. That parable isn't just a challenge of the past, it's a call the Church is asked to answer right now. And to help us reflect on this call, I'm joined today by Carrie Robinson. She is the President and CEO of Catholic Charities usa, whose Mission is to serve people, families and whole communities in need and to call the entire church and all people of goodwill to do the same. Carrie, thank you so much for joining us on this called podcast today.
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B
It is such an honor and a privilege to be here with you.
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A
You're the President and CEO of Catholic Charities usa. But can you tell us a little bit something about yourself? Just how did you. How did you get from wherever you came from to where you're at right now?
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B
Well, I was born to a family that now has an 80 year history of serving the Catholic Church at the local, national and international through the instrument of a private Family Foundation. So 80 years ago, my great grandparents, John and Helena Raskob, pooled their resources, they set up this foundation and they had two intentions. The first was that all of their resources would be used exclusively to support the Catholic Church and any ministry or apostolate under its auspices anywhere in the world. And their second intention was that their children and descendants would be stewards of the foundation's resources in a non remunerative way. So a completely voluntary way. And now, 80 years later, the mission is true to original donor intent. And there are close to 100 of my relatives who are actively engaged as volunteers in the work of the foundation. And what it did for me as a child especially was expose me to women, men, ordained, religious and lay, who were our applicants and our grantees. And their lives were so compelling to me, especially as a child, because they stood, stood at the vanguard of human suffering. And their faith compelled them to pay attention to that suffering in their midst. And they refused to walk away or look away. Instead, their faith compelled them to respond and they responded in all of these different ways in different parts of the globe. But I was struck by the fact that, that they had so much interior freedom, so much purpose and so much joy, even though they were witnessing really awful things that humans do to one another and to our common home. So I just felt like they are living with such intention, such joy and making such a difference. I want to be like them.
- [05:40]
A
Wow. I had no idea. So 80 years ago, these are your great.
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B
My great grandparents, yes.
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A
And what's the name of the foundation? Is that a public thing that you can share?
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B
Yes, it's the Raskob foundation for catholic activities. It's 80 years old.
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A
Wow.
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B
And really quite remarkable, the impact of evangelization on the family. Because part of the secret sauce, I think, is that we are invited formally to serve when we are teenagers.
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A
Oh, wow. So. Wow. So at that point in life, where you're just like. I mean, for many people, maybe not all people, adolescence can be a time where you're really just introspective and kind of maybe self preoccupied at that same time. You had the opportunity to say, but you know, you can do good in this world. And there are people who, what I hear, heard you say is that here's not only this opportunity with the, with the foundation, but the opportunity not just to serve, but to come into contact with people who need help as well as people who. Whose lives were dedicated to being Christ in the world.
- [06:55]
B
Exactly. Extraordinary, extraordinary stories. And then you just grow up with your eyes wide open, looking for that in the world and wanting to be a part of it. So I honestly thought, these really are my heroes and my heroines. But I will never be that selfless, that holy, that dedicated. And I used to beg God to let me do something with my life as I grew up that could play a kind of behind the scenes role in supporting my moral heroes and heroines in doing something with my life that could help them do what they were doing to even greater effect. And I truly believe that prayer has been answered all of my life, in all of my service for the church, but particularly as belonging to the Catholic Charities USA family.
- [07:56]
A
If I can ask, what was the first step that you took, like when, okay, you're a teenager, maybe beyond teenager, where you were like, okay, not only are these my heroes, but I'm going to try to live this out. What was your first kind of foray into that world of service in the model of your heroes and heroines?
- [08:19]
B
Well, I was always helping the applicants who would come to the Rascob Foundation. I was always trying to give them as much advice as I could about what funders are looking for and kind of championing and cheerleading for them. But professionally, I had the opportunity right out of college to work for a consortium of Catholic foundations known as FATICA Foundations and donors interested in Catholic activities.
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A
And.
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B
And that further exposed me to other families that also cared about supporting the Catholic Church in a whole array of ministries. And we really formed an intentional spiritual community. And I've been part of Fatica all of my life. It's turning 50 next year. So that gave me a further insight. And I really thought, I will be so blessed if my professional life can be in the world of philanthropy helping people give away their money. But I was, 27 years ago, as I was intent on that as a vocation, I was asked by Father Bob Belloin, the Catholic chaplain at Yale University, if I would serve as director of development for a $5 million capital campaign that he was initiating to expand Catholic life at Yale University. And I know that this Catholic campus ministry is near and dear to your heart, Father Mike.
- [10:01]
A
Absolutely.
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B
So I had only been in this world from a funder side or from the foundation side. I had never, ever so much as been entrusted to run a bake sale at our toddler's daycare. So I knew nothing about actually raising money. And he called me and said, told me about this capital campaign. It was $5 million. He said, it won't involve any travel, no stress, it's part time. It's going to be a walk in the park. And your name came to me in prayer. And that really was the best development pickup line I've ever had in my life. What did I say? So I scrambled because I loathed the idea of raising money. And I remembered, this is 27 years ago. I was pregnant with my second child, which I shared with him. There was a long silence on the phone. And then he said, I'm so happy for you and your husband, Carrie. This is beautiful news. You can work from home.
- [11:11]
A
Wow. Wow.
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B
And then he said, pray about it for five days. I know I'm springing this on you. Just pray about it for five days. Whatever your answer in prayer is, of course I will honor and accept and respect. So I hung up the phone. So glad for this commitment to pray about it for five days because I knew that my nose would be so eloquent and polished and convincing. And of course, you know, those who take prayer seriously know it is the one praying who has changed.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And to my astonishment, I called him after five days of praying and said, I don't know how to raise money and I don't think I'm the right person for this, but I will do it. And together we are going to elevate Catholic campus ministry not just at a world class university, but across the entire country, if not world. And young adults deserve the very best. So I'm so grateful. It was the hardest thing I've ever done those 10 years, but very, very rewarding.
- [12:22]
A
Well, Father, he said they would be no travel and stress free.
- [12:27]
B
Yeah, that was all made up.
- [12:30]
A
That was all made up. Did you get to work from home at least a little bit?
- [12:33]
B
Yes. And I did have the baby, but so I always had a home office. But successful fundraising really demands relationality. So a huge part of my job was accompanying him to meet Yale Catholic alumni across the country and sharing our vision and. And Inviting them to be part of something, life giving, that would benefit generations not even yet born. We were highly successful, against all odds. Neither of us had ever been trained, but we raised $75 million.
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A
That's incredible.
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B
No staff.
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A
That's amazing.
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B
Yes. And it's, you know, to this day, it is this vibrant center of. Of wonderful Catholic intellectual and spiritual maturation. And everyone should visit St. Thomas More at Yale.
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A
That's amazing. So you're working Vatica and helping people. Helping people with means, support. And then you went to working for Yale, the Catholic campus ministry at Yale. It seems like in both of those cases, actually, even for you as a child, getting involved with the foundation of your family. It was a response to an invitation, like, here's an open door and someone says, kerry, we'd like you to consider doing this. Is that. Is that accurate? Like a lot of that being a response.
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B
I have never applied for a job in my life. It is always this invitation. Please, you know, just meet with the search committee or please do this. And I always, in genuine. This is not false humility, genuinely in humility, never think I am the right person for it. But when you live vocationally and you really care about the mission of the church or you care about its apostolates, you are all in. And that has just been a great blessing in my life. Terrifying, but rewarding.
- [14:44]
A
You're not in control when you live like that.
- [14:46]
B
Exactly.
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A
So I like that phrase, living vocationally. How would you describe. What is it to live vocationally?
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B
Well, I think it goes back to those early childhood heroes and heroines. I really was struck by what they were bearing witness to. They saw the worst of what humankind does to one another. All of the injustices, all of the poverty, all of the suffering, much of it gratuitous and yet very real. And what we were doing to our common home and just their absolute commitment in faith, you know, love of God, love of neighbor, to be present, to not walk away, to. To extend themselves and to be part of the solution, to provide peace and hope and education and mercy and healing and food, water, dignity, patience, attentiveness, and all of that. I was observing this and seeing they're making a difference, at least in the life of the person before them. And they have so much joy, like palpable joy about them and inner freedom. And I ended up going to the divinity school because I felt that that was part of the call, the vocational call. And I wanted to be conversant in all things Catholic. And I remember my professor saying the Moral life ought to make sense. And when I looked at what these women and men were doing out of a disposition of their Catholic faith, the moral life made sense. And I just wanted to be. I so much wanted to be a part of it and to also inspire and encourage others to join in that pursuit.
- [16:56]
A
Wow. That makes so much sense. So that the vocational. Vocational living is that responding to the need? And what I heard you say is maybe something, a temptation that many of us have, which is either to look away or to walk away. But vocational living would be okay? No. Lord, are you. Where in this moment, are you calling me to be present? Where are you calling me to not look away? Where are you calling me to not walk away, but to. Again, we go back to this phrase of being the hands and the feet, the heart and the face of Jesus in this moment.
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B
Yes. Beautiful.
- [17:30]
A
So we have a long history, but now you've been working for Catholic Charities. So I think I've always heard of Catholic Charities, as far as I think I can remember, at least. Could you describe or give us a sense of, like, what's the scope of Catholic Charities work? And. Yeah, just that first part. What's the scope of that? What does Catholic Charities do? And then why does that matter so much for all of us, not just for those involved with Catholic Charities?
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B
Great. So Catholic Charities USA is a membership organization of 168 independent diocesan Catholic Charities agencies. We are in all 50 states, five US territories and the District of Columbia. We are part, in turn, of a global network under the auspices of the Catholic Church of Social services, of poverty, relief, of healing, of merciful compassion. And that global entity is called Caritas Internationalis. And virtually every country in the world has a Caritas. Catholic Charities USA is the Caritas for the United States. So the focus of our work is to serve poor and vulnerable people living in the United States. It's very important to note that although we are called Catholic Charities, we serve people of all faiths and no faith. The famous expression is we don't serve people because they are Catholic. We serve people because we are Catholic. So it's really trying, in a practical, pragmatic way, to live the gospel and to have a special focus on the poorest in our midst. The most vulnerable, who often are experienced experiencing their hardest, hardest days. They are yearning for mercy. They feel like they have nowhere to turn, but they know that they can find healing, attentiveness, mercy food, job training, support at Catholic Charities.
- [20:04]
A
Wow. So that sounds like there's a lot. It also sounds like the 168 different branches, essentially, of Catholic Charities. Is it accurate to say they could all do end up doing, multiply multiple different things? Or is it like, no, we all, we all do X, Y and Z. That's it.
- [20:24]
B
Correct. You are correct. In fact, when I first arrived in this role two years and two months ago, I was told by everyone, if, if I. If you've seen one Catholic Charities, you've seen one Catholic Charities. Each one has its own CEO, its own relationship with its local ordinary, its local bishop, its own board of trustees, and its own strategic plan responding to poverty in its location. And poverty looks different in different parts of the country, just as it looks different in different parts of the world. And so each operates out of the same mission, but responds to the needs before them in different and innovative ways. I will say, though, while all of that is true and each one is unique and does things slightly differently than others, when I travel the country and I encounter these ministries, I am really struck by what binds them together. And it is this absolute radical commitment to living the gospel, to caring for poor people. People who are really frightened, scared, do not know where to go. And it's not just the humanitarian aid that is provided. It, it's the merciful way that in which it is provided that is so heartwarming to me. And just the tenacity, especially in these days, the tenacity to continue to be there for vulnerable people.
- [22:15]
A
Yeah, well, you just mentioned it's not merely humanitarian aid or help, but the merciful way, like the means by which it happens. Is that, would you say, what does that mean? What's the distinction between.
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B
No, listen, I will be the first to be grateful for all kinds of social services and everybody in the nonprofit sector who is helping poor people. But what really distinguishes Catholic Charities is that it is a faith based service. And so everything is about human dignity and recognizing human dignity, lifting people up out of poverty, defending their dignity. And that invariably means that whatever the presenting problem is, let's say it's a family with small children and they are worried about how to feed their kids through the month, and they come to a food bank or to a soup kitchen run by Catholic Charities, whatever that presenting problem is, that will never be the only thing that Catholic Charities learns about the family. It's so highly relational, and it's just the first aperture to understand how can we not just feed your family in this moment. Moment, but help lift your family out of poverty and ensure dignity for the family moving forward.
- [24:00]
A
Would it be fair to say the Catholic Charities really Catholic in the sense that the gospel is the motive, and then, as best you can, the gospel is the method. That sense of. Before we started hitting record today, you and I mentioned, well, the parable of the Good Samaritan that we mentioned at the very beginning of this podcast. Is that the driving force or is that. Or just even. It seems to me that, like you said, there are a lot of nonprofits that do really good work, but Catholic Charities is distinct in the sense that it does good work in the name of the Lord, in the name of Jesus and his church, but also try to do it with the heart of the Lord, with the heart of Christ.
- [24:46]
B
Absolutely, 100%. And it's. So it's not just the work that needs to be done. If somebody is before you and needs to be fed, you will feed them. If they need safe shelter, you will provide safe shelter. If they need job training so that they can earn a higher income and get their family out of poverty, you will provide the job training. All of that is important, but it's the merciful way in which it is done and this constancy of being a sign of hope and being a conduit for God's love for people.
- [25:30]
A
Wow. When I was a kid, high schooler, I think I read the book. There were a couple different small books, and I think one of them was entitled Sometimes God Has a Kid's Face. It was Covenant House, I think is the name of the wonderful. And. And have you ever. I don't mean to put you on the spot. Did you ever read any of those or hear about those?
- [25:51]
B
No, but Covenant House in New York City is part of Catholic Charities New York City, and also a charity internationally that the Raskob foundation supports. And very, very good work.
- [26:06]
A
It struck me so powerfully of just like, almost like a different kind of way when you saw those men and women who just inspired you to, like, okay, to make a life. Could you possibly make a. Could I possibly make a life of serving people? To be able to spend your life doing something like that would be amazing. Are there any, like, stories or encounters that have moved your heart in a way that just like, you're like, yes, this is. We need to keep doing what we're.
- [26:31]
B
Doing every single day and every single trip. I probably visited close to 6, 60 of the independent Catholic Charities across the country in these two years. And every time, without fail, I encounter and learn of a story that is just riveting. So much so that we have a new initiative at Catholic Charities usa. So the Office that I direct here is the, the headquarters for the membership writ large. And in our office, especially because of all of these visits and these extraordinary stories, we are embarking on a brand new initiative called People of Hope. It is a mobile museum that will tour the country for two and a half years all over the continental U.S. and when the mobile museum stops, it sort of expands and you can walk through it and you are treated to video stories of volunteers and full time Catholic Charities staff telling their story of a particular encounter with a client served and how moving and important it has been to, to their life and to their heart and to their faith. Absolutely exquisite and, and so hopeful. I mean, just what we kind of need in this moment.
- [28:13]
A
Well, that makes so much sense really, just to, to hear those stories of, of real heartbreak, but also that, that God can still work. And, and God is working in these, in these. I mean, I just, you know, we have a, here on campus, we have a degree in social work. We have, I think, even masters in social work here. And sometimes I have this kind of trepidation, I guess just be honest, when our students go into that field because I think sometimes there can be a lot of strikeouts or however you want to say it. Kind of like, you know, you're left standing there at the plate and have to go back to the dugout in the sense of just there can be a struggle, right? Just the kind of the grind of we're working and we're working, but we don't see a lot of fruit or don't see a lot of change. And so that stories of hope sounds like it could be remarkable. Speaking of the opposite of hope, right? The discouragement people can sometimes experience, I imagine in talking with people who work in those 168 different branches of Catholic Charities around the country, that sometimes what you have to deal with, what they have to deal with is we're really trying, we're working so hard and feel like we're getting nowhere. Has that ever happened? And if so, what? How do you give them hope?
- [29:34]
B
Well, I think it is very difficult to bear witness to human suffering. It really is difficult. Difficult and especially day after day after day. And yet, as I travel the country and witness firsthand how people in great pain and insecurity and need and poverty, how they are being received and cared for through Catholic Charities, through the social ministries of the church, that witness, seeing how merciful it is, that is the prophylactic against the temptation to despair. And I'm convinced that we just need to recognize there are many Many ways to serve and to use our particular talents so that others benefit. We just have to make sure we're connected to each other so we never fear, feel isolated in this. And generosity is infectious and contagious. And I'm really committed to trying to foster that everywhere I go.
- [30:54]
A
So being connected is one massive way in which people can avoid that kind of burnout or discouragement. Especially like you said, as they're staring down, I mean, if they're not looking away, not running away, but trying to be in the midst of great need. Is that sense of like, okay, I can't do this alone, so I need other people around me as well as I imagine, again, I need to be connected with the Lord Jesus, that sense that I can't give what I don't have. And if I'm being commanded, enjoined by the Lord to love like the Lord, then I imagine there's a piece of that that says I can't love like the Lord. If I love with my own heart, I have to love with his heart somehow. And so connected with others as well as connected to God, you know?
- [31:38]
B
Yes. That's beautiful, Father Mike. I would add to this that when you. You know, I think we spend so much of our lives being told that we're loved by God, but actually we don't really believe it. You know, we talk ourselves out of it. We say, oh, no, I'm not worthy of being loved. All of these mental tortures we put ourselves through. But every now and then we really do know that we are utterly loved by God just for being. Just for being who we are. And when that happens, it is such a profound experience. I think of it as falling in love. When you're in love with somebody and you realize that person is in love with you back, like, it's just this immense gratitude. So when you feel that way, you want to love God back so much and you want to express that love to God. And how do you do that? Well, I think the best, easiest, most faithful way, as the parable of the Good Samaritan points out, is you love God by loving what God loves, each other, our common home. And that is deeply pleasing to God. The other thing I would say is that while this work can be very demanding, it is a blessing to have meaningful work. I mean, when we list our blessings, I don't know how often we name to have meaningful work. That is a true, true Blessing.
- [33:29]
A
Oh, for 100%, that is, like you said, it's a blessing that I think sometimes when you're in the middle of it, and you're just like, oh, wow, I'm just really tired. Or I feel like there's so much going on. But to be able to have that moment, to step back and say, but if it was gone, if it was gone, I don't know what I would do. I'd miss it. And that meaningful work, it sounds like, Carrie, that everyone's made for. Not only is everyone made for meaningful work, but also to be part of this, what you're describing, that you get to be, you get to bear witness to, you get to be a part of. So and you had mentioned too, you had said something along the lines of that all of us individually are called to put our various skills and whoever we are, at the service of Christ's mission on earth. I'm paraphrasing. I would ask this if someone's listening to this, and they would say, okay, I would love to be able to start from your perspective, what are some practical ways that every Catholic could begin answering that call to help the poor in their own community? Here's what I mean. When I was, I don't know how old I was, maybe high school or college, I was reading about Saint Pier Giorgio Frassati and how he would just not only take care of the poor, take care of those who are sick, like, buy them medicine and whatnot. I remember hearing a story about how he would leave the home, his home, with shoes, and then he'd come home shoeless because he had given his shoes away to someone who didn't have shoes. I remember thinking, I live in northern Minnesota. Like everyone I know has shoes like that. I don't know where to look to find someone to serve. So backing up from your perspective, how could the average disciple of Jesus, how could the average Catholic just begin to answer that call, helping the poor in their own communities?
- [35:25]
B
Well, I think a lot about generosity, and this is probably because of my upbringing in this foundation and then the other side of the coin being asked to be the fundraiser. So I've learned and prayed a lot about generosity, fundraising and philanthropy. And I think often we think of generosity as giving money. So it would be absolutely wonderful for all of your listeners if they gave some money to, well, certainly to Catholic Charities, but to the church's apostolates and ministries. That is one form of actively paying or actively being part of this. But I think we do a disservice to the call to generosity when we think of it only in terms of money. Think of all of the ways we can Be generous. We can be generous with our time. You know, we can stop and pay attention to poverty in our midst. We can be generous with our time to care enough to ask people what their names are or to hear their story, to make sure we are not dismissed, missing their humanity. We can be generous listeners. That is in short supply in our fast paced world. We can also be generous, and this is particularly important in this day and age. We can be generous by extending the benefit of the doubt. We make these snap judgments and characterizations about people, we want to categorize them and then divide. We're part of the divisiveness when we do that. But if we are generous by extending the benefit of the doubt, I think that is an important commitment as a person of faith. So in all of those ways, if we just give some self reflection to how we can live out the baptismal call to be generous, you know, to model ourselves after Christ, who was the ultimate person of generosity, giving everything, including his life for us. We can be generous in many, many ways. And a little goes such a long way when, when you're, when you're having your worst day and somebody is generous to you or when you have expressed, experienced mercy, you know how important that is. We can all do a little bit better in that regard.
- [38:25]
A
Well, it sounds like one of the things is part of connected to vocational living. Sounds like where you're like, okay, who is the person in front of you and what is their need and can I meet that need? I don't know if again didn't mean me paraphrasing or trying to just say, okay, I may not have to go and look for the person to serve. Like again, to walk with the poor might be to walk with the person who has a poverty of like attentiveness of attention. Right across the street from us is a university with 12, 14,000 students. And it is very possible for multiple people to walk the halls every single day and be unknown. And so what I see you is because you've talked about in the past, we talked about how important it is to acknowledge that every single living person is made in God's image. And because of that, we have to treat everyone, without exception with that respect, that reverence, that awe. Where have you found that? It's really difficult to actually. Okay, because we can. I don't know about you, but right now in front of a camera, I can talk a great game. I can be like, oh yeah, just, you know. But where for you personally is it like the sticking point of where it Gets difficult.
- [39:43]
B
We're all human, and we get annoyed with each other, and we're angry about how we're treated or how if we witness somebody maltreating another person, I mean, there's just. Everything's complicated. But the gospel call, to recognize that everyone, without exception, has inherent human dignity and is made in the image and likeness of God. That is a radical call for us. Sometimes I think those of us who live our faith seriously and are in the church and use all of this vernacular, we kind of gloss over it. But when we really take seriously, like, we are called to see every person as our brother and sister. Sister, every person. And to be tenacious in trying to model how God would want us to show love and show mercy and help and be generous and be compassionate. You know, you talk about the isolation and loneliness. A few years ago, the Surgeon General declared that we have an epidemic of isolation and loneliness in the United States. I mean, that was horrifying to hear and read about. And we see the rise of mental health challenges. The antidote, I am just so convinced. And an important antidote is this call to encounter and accompany one another, to extend the benefit of the doubt, to presume goodness in one another. To imagine every one of us is walking around with invisible pain, inside, loss, all kinds of things. It's so hidden. And if we could see it, if we could really see it, we would be so much more kind to one another.
- [41:56]
A
Yeah. How do you. How do you not get. When you see it, how do you not get crushed by that? In the sense of, you know, I. I know. For the temptation in so many ways is you become calloused by it. Like, that sense of, like, okay, just gonna. Nope, I'm not gonna. I'm not going to allow it to affect my heart or to be crushed. I mean, it seems like those are, in so many ways, our own fragile hearts either get calloused by suffering or they get crushed by suffering.
- [42:24]
B
Well, but, you know, we started this one, and when I told you about my child heroes were they were doing all of this work, all that we're talking about, and. But the thing that was most evident about them was their joy. And so that fact, the joy of service, the joy of recognizing that we're not alone in wanting this to be a better, more merciful, more just world. We are not alone in upholding human dignity. We are not alone in caring for one another. There is joy that comes from that, and it is infectious, too. So our job is to amplify it. And we try every day through Catholic Charities. And we are in collaboration with many other mission aligned efforts and organizations. And there is a genuine joy to that.
- [43:28]
A
I mean, I was gonna say I can imagine, but now I know that feeling because it seems to me that the need of the world is great. Of course, what we have to offer, no matter who we are, is also immense. Is great. Here's something that's kind of personally for me. One of the ways that I think I'm able to walk through the road between becoming calloused or being crushed or I think it's in some ways the way of joy, of just like I'm free to love when here. And again, if I'm wrong on this, please, please correct me. When I know my limitations in the sense of maybe like this, I know something along the lines of what I can do. And I kind of know what I can't do. And when I am at peace with that. In the sense that I want to keep striving, right? I want to keep striving to give my best to the people around me. I want to strive to meet there in their need, meet them in their needs. But also when I'm also at that place of I know that I can't fix all. I can't fix someone's heart and I can't fix all someone's problems. So I know here's what I can do. And I also know here's what I can't do. And I'm going to live in that place of doing all that I can without condemning myself maybe for not being able to do more. Is that accurate or should I look at this in a better way?
- [45:01]
B
No, I think that's a beautiful way to look at it. I have a friend named Mac McCarter who says caring alone won't change the world, but caring together will. And so you can only do so much. I can only do so much. And also I'm never gonna do it perfectly and I'm often gonna do it poorly. Despite being best intentions. But the consistent vocational call to be merciful, to be loving, to be the reason for someone's hope every day that together, you know, if you and I are both acting that way and doing that and committed, and then we tell two friends and so on and so on. That is where I think the spirit is really moving.
- [45:55]
A
Well, that makes sense too, because the. Here's the church that is again, we were meant to be the body of Christ in the world. And bring God's grace and his love. And if I just feel like I'm the only one doing this, then I will be the only one doing this. But if we collaborate or just work as church, live as church, you've actually, along those lines, you've advocated for even more partnership between like the lay leadership, lay service and the clergy leadership. And the clergy service you mentioned when you're at Yale and you partnered with Father the Chaplain at Yale, who just like this remarkable way that the two of you, as layperson and as a priest, did something amazing there, I'm sure with others. Why do you think that the collaboration between lay leadership and clergy is so important? And how do you see us moving forward in that area?
- [46:50]
B
So we're moving kind of into a different but equally important topic and something that I care really deeply about my whole life from the age of 14, I have worked on behalf of the Catholic Church, on behalf of strengthening it on, you know, in these different ministries. And the explicit religious mission of the Church has formed the person I am. But the fact that it is the largest global humanitarian network in the world has rendered me forever committed to its health and vitality. So when the abuse crisis happened just over 20 years ago or came to the consciousness of everyone, I was blessed to be asked to be the founding executive director of Leadership Roundtable. And Leadership Roundtable was not created to attend to sexual abuse that was the catalyst for the formation. Rather, it was a time when many people were leaving the church or frustrated, angry, all these emotions. And those of us who believed that the church was our faith family knew that when your family is in crisis, you do everything possible to affect healing and reconciliation. And in fact, for us to do nothing at that time would be to be complicit. The way we thought at that moment that we could play a contributing role was to convene senior level lay executives from every industry and sector, all of whom were Catholic, many of whom were daily communicants. But they had in their professional vocational lives, expertise in finance or communications or running international companies or being a three star general in the army. We brought all of these women and men together and we prevailed upon them to lend their managerial and financial expertise so that we could bring this to the service of bishops, provincials, pastors, and together usher in a new culture of transparency, accountability and trustworthiness for the church. So that's a long winded way of saying that I really think our baptism matters and we all have a role to play in strengthening the Church that we love and calling it to realize its greatest potential to be a welcoming and loving and formative church. And an agent of Christ's love and mercy in the world. And to withhold it, to withhold what we do best seems to be the wrong thing to do. Like we have to be all in with the church that we love. And too often I think laity were perceived as well. We need their money and we need their, you know, we need their financial contributions. But when we ignore what they do especially well, their intellectual capabilities, their strategic insights, then we're almost ignoring who they are as a person and only seeing them as a financial contributor and that the whole church is in impoverished by that. So I really do believe strongly in this co responsibility that laity ordained religious and lay people working together because we all only have a piece of the, of the wisdom and the picture and we need each other to be healthy and whole.
- [51:08]
A
Yeah, that makes, that makes sense. I mean it just as you mentioned, practically speaking, it is necessary for us to work together if we're actually going to bring the mission of Christ, to bring the good news, to bring the gospel, to bring Christ's healing, hope and joy to the entire world. We have to work together. And it makes no sense to even try to not to not have lay leadership and lay service and clergy leadership and clergy service and to work together just makes sense. It's interesting because the objective of Catholic initiative isn't just to restore and maintain beautiful churches so that these churches and schools can be like museums, but it's to invest the actual mission of the Catholic Church, which, yeah, means supporting parishes and schools, but making it so that they are like missionary hubs or community hubs that are serving people in all aspects of their life. And so this parish, again to go back to the place of here's clergy and lay folks working together, I think the place we most encounter each other is in the parish. What would you say when it comes to making a difference in the world? What is the role, what role should the parish be in people's lives and how can that partner with organizations like Catholic Charities?
- [52:35]
B
Well, so you're speaking a great. I am so proud of the work that you are doing and it's such an important mission and I am 100% aligned with your vision for what vibrant, welcoming, innovative, faith filled parishes can be, should be, must be. We tried to do that in Catholic campus ministry at Yale, in fact. And I mean, why not try to envision and aspire for the very best. We only have this one life to live. We might as well try to get it right the first time. But with respect to Catholic Charities in that vision, I think it's really important for Catholic Charities and parishes to align themselves because parishes should know about this important apostolate of their bishop in their diocese and how life giving it is, how compelling it is. And we at Catholic Charities are trying to do a better job of aligning with parishes and making sure that there is parish social engagement, because it really is true, that is the best way to bind people together when they have a common ministry or of service to meeting a need in the community. That is a way of strengthening us as a community of believers and giving witness to that. So maybe you and I should work more closely on this vision.
- [54:30]
A
Well, yeah, because it seems like that here's the parish of the place. People encounter the Lord in many ways, you know, just like the place where you come to worship. But also I think sometimes there can be a fracture between this incredible work of Catholic Charities and life of the parish, as opposed to say, oh no, this is all that Catholic Charities does, that actually is meant to be the life of the parish as well. That it's not just one kind of branch of those Catholics who like service. But no, all of us are called, all of us in the parish, everyone in the pews is called to be part of this mission, I think.
- [55:09]
B
And Father Mike, we are so blessed that just a couple of weeks ago Pope Leo issued his very first apostolic exhortation, De Lecte, which is entirely devoted to the connection of the Eucharist, the parish and love of the poor. I mean, it is such a work of beauty and such a blueprint for how we ought to, to live our lives. So lots, lots there that we can live out of and live into.
- [55:49]
A
Well, that is so good. Along those same lines, maybe the last thing before we end this conversation, what's one thing you'd want every person listening to this to take away about that being called to help the poor? Like if you just. Here's the one thing that I want you to take away about being called to help the poor. What would that thing be?
- [56:07]
B
We find our lives by giving them away. And the more that we can be other centered, pay attention to those who are suffering. I mean, everyone is suffering. But imagine your suffering compounded by poverty. That sort of tenderness of heart, that intentional preferential option for poor people in this moment in particular, that is a way to really live an authentic life of faith. And you will be amazed at how much life you gain in the process.
- [56:49]
A
Thank you for that. That's a. I think it's a really good place to conclude this conversation. I am so grateful for you. Not only for you making the time today, but also for what you're doing making time in your life. You made a life out of patterning yourself after heroes and heroines who patterned their lives off of Jesus, who is our model and perfector of faith. So yeah, thank you Carrie so much for your time.
- [57:20]
B
Well, I really appreciated this conversation, Father Mike, and thanks for all the good you do in the world every single day.
- [57:27]
A
Thank you very, very much and thanks for all of you listening to called this podcast is made possible by the Catholic Initiative who is inspiring bold faith in action and are investing in vibrant but under resourced Catholic communities by revitalizing iconic parishes and schools and communities. If you want to learn more about their projects or discover how you can make a difference, visit the CatholicInitiative.org that's the CatholicInitiative.org Remember, remember, the Gospel is more than words. The Gospel is a way of life. Jesus told this to us in Matthew, chapter 25 when we serve the least of these, we serve him. So until next time, let's keep listening to God's call and let's also have the courage to answer it. God bless.