B (4:59)

I love how you say that, because I think that's true. That's something that comes up a lot, this idea where if someone doesn't look this way, then we need to fix them, right? And what we do. And I. And I think, you know, that's a human thing to think. And I was sharing with you before we started recording, it's like, oh, you know, I see all these people sort of posting pictures of prom and whatever, and they're you know, that look so fun. But that doesn't mean that my kids are wrong or need fixed because maybe they won't do those things because that doesn't interest them. Right. And so I think that it's this very different way of thinking. If you catch yourself thinking we need to fix this or this needs to happen, or all the shoulds come in, I think that's great to be able to forgive yourself first for thinking those things. Definitely don't say them right. Think about changing your approach. Because one way isn't the best way. It's just the way you thought maybe things would happen or the way you usually see things happen. That doesn't mean that it's the right way.

A (6:13)

Right. There's not one way. Right. Like, it's. The individual child has a path. And look, I think our kids are going to have the more difficult path in the short term. And I always like to say it's almost like they get the hard living out of the way as kids. And so I do joke, but I think it's true that sometimes the compliant, easygoing kids that kind of sail through childhood, when they're 25 and they get fired from their first job, they're like, oh, my gosh, someone rejected me. And the strong will tell is going to be like, nobody's like me since I was born, right? And they're. And they're used to facing challenges. So there is a certain amount of this that you have to see. I guess my advantage I have is our son is 30 now, so seeing the arc of life, that's like all those things our son struggled with when he was a kid actually make him very strong and resilient in the adult world now. So perspective really helps. And that's why I'm glad you have your podcast, because you just every week, it's like perspective, perspective, perspective. And it really helps people.

B (7:17)

Well, I appreciate that. And when I think about walking in and I'm neurodivergent myself, I know you are as well. So walking in those shoes and thinking when I was younger where I did this wrong and I did that wrong and everything I did was wrong is what it felt like. I don't know if that was your experience, but I don't want that for my kids. I want them to know that they are accepted for the awesome people they are. Even though it may not be this path that I thought or we all did and you referred to like, oh, this is the path. You know, you go through school and you graduate and you Go to college and then you get married and you have kids or whatever. But who decided that, right? Like, who decided that that was the way it needed to be? And it doesn't. You know, this path looks different for them, but it's not bad. Does that make sense? Like, it's. It's not less in any kind of way?

A (8:20)

Yeah. And I think it's important to normalize that and to say, like, I love the phrase, of course. Of course your path is different because you're different, but there's nothing wrong with that. Your path will look different than the other kids. And you're going like, what I taught my son is you're going to struggle in these areas. Right. It wasn't saying, like, you're weak. It was. No, you're just naturally going to struggle. Right. Like, with authority figures. You're always going to want to speak up and do it a different way. Here's an appropriate way to do it differently and to, I think, normalizing. I could have used that as a kid, because as a kid, I felt like in high school, I knew I just didn't fit. But I knew one day I'd be kind of like, good husband, good dad. I knew I'd do well in the adult world. And I wish I had had someone come along and say, you know what? This stuff is like, fleeting. Like, you're only going to be, like, a teenager for a little while. You're going to be an adult for, like, 70 years. So just kind of like, get through it. And, like, that's what I tell middle school kids. Like, this is the hardest time of your entire life. Like, if you feel awkward as a middle schooler, good, you should, because you're really awkward. I'm kidding. You don't say that. But you normalize things. Can I do one other thing, Holly? Because it's a big deal to me. Of course, I know it's kind of off of our little thing, but it's that normalizing anxiety for kids, like, anxiety is a very typical comorbid thing that comes with neurodivergent people. And I think one of this is my own opinion is one of the worst things we're doing with kids is being like, oh, I'm sorry you have anxiety. Let's talk to someone about your anxiety all the time. You'll make someone really anxious. And I'd rather normalize and say, of course you're anxious about going to that new Taekwondo class. Like, you're having to go to someplace new. You don't know anybody. You you struggle getting. Getting along with kids your own age. So you're. You're nervous about that. You're not always great at doing sports, so you should be anxious about going to a new place rather than saying, I don't know why you're anxious. There's nothing to be worried to worry about. And then the child begins to internalize, well, if I shouldn't be anxious, but I am, maybe there's something wrong with me, and I'd rather tell them no, of course. Right. Of course. That writing assignment that you're doing is hard because you have this busy brain with all these ideas, and it's really hard to get those thoughts from head to paper. So I'm going to give you some tools to do it differently. But of course that's hard because otherwise we can consistently say, look, if you would just focus, that assignment isn't hard. Well, if it's hard for me, then I must be stupid and there's something wrong with me. So I think there's a great value in normalizing what they're going through instead of making them feel like there's. They're so different or there's something wrong. I hope that. I hope that makes sense.

B (11:28)

No, I'm glad that you brought that up. And it's so interesting because you and I have never talked about this before. My favorite thing to say is, of course.

A (11:37)

Is it really?

B (11:38)

It really is.

A (11:40)

Of course. Of course. Look, great minds think alike.

B (11:45)

Right, Right. And so I think of it as, again, we're not going to act like the anxiety is not there. That's kind of ridiculous. And like you said, act like it's not happening. No, it's happening. Right. And it's often based, like you were saying, on my previous experiences where I felt anxious or when you don't know what's going to happen. Anxiety is very much a fe. Future.

A (12:10)

Yeah, It's. Well, it's preparing them for the future. Look, anxiety is caused by unknowns, things you can't control. It's a very normal thing, and you shouldn't feel bad if you feel anxiety. You should actually know that's a normal, healthy response to new situations. It puts you on alert of, like, something. So given that that's normal, here are two or three ways to handle that inevitable anxiety. And now you're teaching your child, this is the way you're. This is the way you operate in the world. This is what you're going to encounter. It's normal. So here's how you do that in those situations, rather than Making it something kind of like there's something wrong with you or that it's odd. And our kids so.

B (12:57)

Right. And it's not. I love that you said normalize that because we don't do that enough. And that's what I say often in sessions with people's. Of course you would. Why wouldn't you? Instead of there's nothing to be anxious about. Well, there is. There's the fear of rejection. There is the idea that you're going to be nervous in the future, that you're going to want to avoid, you know, all these things. But when you understand that anxiety is going to come with you, but you're going to do it anyway with these strategies, it's amazing what a difference that can make.

A (13:34)

I agree. Of course.

B (13:38)

Just like you and I. Right. I mean, being, putting yourself out there, that's risky.

A (13:43)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's, I just think there's great value in teaching them how their brains work, how they operate and say, I did it with our son all the time. Like Case, here's how other kids, here's how other adults go through life. They're going to do that and here's this other path. And so I want you to get comfortable with the fact that your path is going to be different. You're a stove toucher. You like to touch the hot stove. And I'm not going to get you to stop touching the hot stove. It's part of who you are. It's how you learn best. So here's, here's how you use that quality in life without getting burned too badly because they will get burned a little bit. And I'm talking metaphorically, although many.

B (14:28)

We don't want anyone touching the stove.

A (14:29)

We don't want anybody touching the stove. Although I guarantee many of your parents listening have kids who have just done that. When we moved to our home, we were quoted a cost of over $20,000 for some trees and shrubs. But we just saved 90% with fast growing Trees. And they helped us get the exact privacy and flowering trees and shrubs for our specific climate. And it's delivered right to our door in days. Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers, including us. They take the hassle out of creating your dream yard. Their alive and thrive guarantees ensures your plants arrive happy and healthy. Plus get support from trained plant experts on call to help you choose and care for the right plants. This spring, Fast Growing Trees has the best deals for your yard up to half off on select plants. Plus listeners to our show get an additional 15 off their first purchase when using the Code Calm at checkout. That's an additional 15 off at fast growingtrees.com using the code CALM fast growing trees.com Calm offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. So let's geek out together for a minute over Gut health because I'm really into this. I just learned that prebiotics are the food that help fuel the growth of healthy bacteria, the probiotics in your gut. So you have to have both. And that's why AG1 helps my digestion, calms my stomach, and keeps me regular. Look, I've loved my morning AG1 routine for years, long before AG1 became a wonderful partner to the podcast. It's a quick, easy win because I start my day with 75 vitamins, probiotics, prebiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients. I just don't have that stomach distress anymore where that bloating, you know, that kind of interferes with your day and puts you on edge. Plus, my weight is down. I've got energy for this hiking season. I'm drinking my Ag one right now while I'm recording this, and I think you should as well. AG1 is offering new subscribers a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3 and K2, which I love, and five free travel packs in your first box. So check out drinkag1.com calm to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com calm to be kind to your gut. That but learning, learning that the way that they're made is good. And I think that's even a little shift of like, no, I like the way you're made. I like these qualities. They're going to serve you well in life. And one thing I taught my son and we teach kids is look, these things are going to make it harder for you in school because that's an honest statement, right? Like, look, you don't have you struggle with short term memory. So here's what I want you to know. The only time in life that you really have to use short term memory is in school to memorize information for tests. For the rest of your life, you will use strategic thinking. You're a good strategic thinker. You have good critical thinking skills. That's why you're so good at arguing with me. You see patterns in life. That's why you're so good at chess and checkers. You know what I'M going to say already before I even say it, because you cataloged all of my lectures. Right. Those qualities, though, when you get to the real world, the adult world, are going to serve you well because companies will pay you a lot of money not to regurgitate and memorize information, but to be a good thinker. And you're a good thinker. And I think something that's coming out of me as I'm saying that is to stop living in. On the defensive. Because as parents of these kids, we tend to be defensive of, like, because other people, teachers, parents, therapists judge us all the time. Well, why aren't you doing that? Why is your child doing that? And I want you to feel confident to say, oh, no, these qualities do make it harder as a kid. But in the real world, man, my child is going to. My child's going to thrive. And just to add a little humor sometimes, when people would judge Casey, I would say, hey, you better be nice to my son because one day your compliant, neurotypical kids are going to be working for my son because he's the kid who's going to own the business and needs some compliant people that he can pay very little money to because they're just rule. I'm kind of kidding, but I'm not. But I like that. But I, I want parents to have a little bit of that confidence in there to say, no, I'm not on the defensive here. There's nothing wrong with my child. My child is going to thrive. It's just going to struggle in arbitrary situations. Right. Like sitting still when you're five years old in circle time. Like, if you have one of these kids and you don't get a call at the beginning of the year from a preschool teacher, something's wrong. I expect kids to get up and start walking around the class because that's what they're supposed to do at age five. So. Sorry, I just ranted a little bit.

B (19:42)

No, I love it. It's true. I am fully convinced that, you know, here, these beautiful, creative thinkers, we want them. Oh, no, you do what we say when we say it, right. Well, should they? I mean, it's right. I mean, it's okay to question things and think differently and, oh, so, so creative. And you know, my kids, the kids I work with, are the best humans. So number two, don't let people put your child in a box.

A (20:14)

I think it's what we've been talking about. You're going to. You as the parent, you get to make the decisions. You are responsible for your child's education, not the teachers and not the school system. And there times where, you know, practical sense of we would just tell the teacher in a nice respectful way because teachers have a hard job. Right? Like, like we have trouble raising one or two neurodivergent kids. But imagine you have like eight or ten of them in your class. Like, it's not easy. So I would talk to Casey's teachers and say, I really appreciate that you want to teach my son so well. I appreciate you giving him homework because you want him to learn. I just want you to know, some nights we're not doing homework now we're always learning. Some nights we're going to build a robot. Some nights we're just going to go out and play because play is learning. But we're not always going to do his homework assignment. And it's okay with us if you mark his grade down because we're not interested in grades. We want to raise a curious child who loves to learn. And so that takes some confidence though, because when you're in IEP meetings, it's usually one parent or maybe two surrounded by 14 different people with master's degrees. Right. And you get overwhelmed with that. But no, trust your instincts as a parent. I want you to trust your instincts to know, no, this just doesn't feel right. And I don't want, I want to resist what your in laws say, what your own parents say, because they're going to judge you. And you just, you know, Holly's podcast, other resources to just to feel confident knowing I'm doing the right thing, even if it doesn't always feel easy or even if it looks different than everybody else is doing it.

B (22:07)

Yeah. And I like that you said that too, is you are really standing in for them. Because it's true. There are so many comments unsolicited, by the way. Usually we're not asking for them. It's true. And so we're like, okay, yeah, thank you for that. But like you said, putting your child in a box, that's okay, that your kid maybe does something different. I remember going to. It was an open house for the, for the class and you know, all the kids handwriting, it was a project was up on that wall and I knew immediately which kid was mine. Right. Because it was extremely difficult to read and very, very different from all the other kids. And he was concerned about all the parents seeing his handwriting. And I was explaining to him that most people don't even write very much when they're older. They type and not only that, my handwriting, it's hard to read. I have a hard time reading it myself and has nothing to do with being smart. Look how creative and lovely the way you wrote that. I think it's so beautiful. And you know, really thinking again, like we were talking earlier for number one in a very different way. All because they're, you know, jumping out of that box or maybe standing next to it or far away from. Doesn't really matter. It's about supporting them where they are and remembering. Like you said, homework. That curriculum was not built for them, period.

A (24:02)

Right.

B (24:03)

It was not built for them. So we're expecting them to do something that's not at all built for them. Just like it would be extremely uncomfortable for someone to tell me that I'm expected to do something I am completely not built for.

A (24:17)

You know, we use that example a lot, Holly. Like if I were to take a highly creative person and say, hey, your job tomorrow is you're an accountant. Your, your livelihood is based on being an accountant. Or if I switch that and I took an accountant and I said, hey, you're the accountant at the advertising agency tomorrow your new job is to be creative director to come up with really creative ads. Well, what would happen? I come in his office or her office a couple of days later and say, hey, do you have some new ads for us? Well, I'm just, I'm not good at this. You know, that just sounds like excuses. If you would apply yourself, you'd be capable of doing this. You're smart. All the things people say to our kids. But so if you put your, you put kids in the right environment, they can thrive. But we also know certain things they're just not going to be good at. And it wouldn't. It's not fair to ask you because I know even though you're highly organized, I would not want you, Polly, running the books for my company. That's not your. And what would happen after a while is you would make mistakes. Me as your boss in this case would be right get on you of like, hey, you need to be more careful. You would start to feel like a failure. And you're a highly intelligent person and just look, if we put you in a different job for two weeks, I could basically ruin your self confidence because you would sit there every day saying, I don't know what to do. And everybody would be around you saying, well, why don't you just try harder? And you would get angry inside and you'd feel frustrated and you would want to give up and so that if you can think about it that way, in some ways, that's what we ask our kids to do all the time. It's just they're not good. And that's where that normalizing of things and giving perspective of, like, look, you're not going to have to do this the rest of your life. This is very arbitrary.

B (26:14)

I love that example so much. It makes me think of one of my first jobs where I was a hostess for a restaurant, and I was also the person that had to run the cash register. And I was horrible at it. And I told them that I have not been tested. I would imagine my processing speed. I'm not quite sure what my overall IQ would be maybe a bit higher, but the processing speed would probably be lower. Like a lot of people with adhd, and also my working memory, like a lot of people with adhd, then also, I think I would probably meet criteria for a math learning disability. And for that time, back in the olden days, there was no cash register that told you what to give back.

A (27:05)

Right.

B (27:06)

So lines of people would be yelling at me, giving me change that made absolutely no sense for their meal. It would take forever. My drawer was always off, and they were constantly mad at me.

A (27:20)

Right.

B (27:21)

And I can't imagine that's the only way I got through that, is someday I'm going to be somewhere doing something where my strengths are, where everyone isn't yelling at me and disappointed with me all the time.

A (27:33)

End, man. We could, you know, we could end it there. That. The discussion on that. I don't want to, but on that part of just countering that negativity that, you know, we just did a. I just did a podcast on that. On countering that. That negative internal dialogue. So can I do a quick example on that, Holly? It's related.

B (27:54)

Yeah, of course.

A (27:56)

So. So I'm doing this phone consultation with this great couple, and their son is a slower processor, like you said. And so the teacher keeps sending home notes. Oh, I'm so concerned because it's taking 40 minutes instead of 20 minutes to do this. And. And just think what's beginning to form in this child's mind. I'm slow. That means I'm stupid. I'm not as smart as other people. Something's wrong with me. And you know those that intern, those internal narratives, they can last a lifetime.

B (28:26)

Oh, yeah, thing.

A (28:28)

But if the parent. So in this case, if the parents and teachers were like, dude, you know why I like how you process information? Because you're a deeper thinker. Yeah. You're slower because you're considering all the different options. Sometimes you give an answer that's not even in the. And this was true. You give an answer that's not even in the teacher workbook, in the teacher guide because you're such a good thinker. So I love that you're a good thinker. And so we can change that internal dialogue. So now the internal dialogue is, I'm a slower processor because I'm a deeper thinker. I'm a problem solver. I consider many different angles. One day, a company is going to pay me a lot of money because I'm a problem solver. And that's the same exact kid. But the parents and teacher's perspective is different. And that kid will be raised entirely different in an entirely different way. Just having that different mindset.

B (29:25)

And I'm glad that you brought that up. And that's so powerful because the kids that I see this foundational belief, right. It just really soaks in. I'm dumb, I'm bad. You know, constant criticism. And you take that on and you wear it heavy. Right. And you believe it. And even, you know, I'll be 50 this year, I still, sometimes in time, especially times of stress, I'll default back to that. I can catch myself a lot earlier than I used to, obviously, but I see that damage that that can happen. And how we approach things for our kids and our students and our clients can really change everything for them.

A (30:11)

Absolutely. That's why I'm glad you're doing what you're doing, Holly.

B (30:14)

Well, you too. Back at you. All right, number three, parent them differently. And we touched on this already, too.

A (30:24)

Yeah. It just takes a different approach. They're motivated by different things. I use. Now this is my own thing, but I, I talk to kids differently. I use a different tone of voice. I like a very even, matter of fact tone of voice. So even when I'm complimenting strong will kids, the kids we work with, I don't make it a big deal. Oh, buddy, I'm so proud of you. Because it sounds condescending to them. It kind of sounds like we never thought you'd actually make a good choice and you just did. So let's celebrate. And the other thing, too much of that also puts pressure on them because they internalize. Hey, wait, you're. You're all excited that I did this? Well, now you're going to expect that again. And I can't guarantee. So my tone of voice with them is, hey, nice job on that project. Fist bump shows Me, you're growing up here. Really nice choice there. Even, matter of fact, I plant little seeds. There are a hundred different things I probably do with these kids that I wouldn't do with, say, neurotypical kids. So you're just going to have to parent differently. You know, when. When they get really upset instead of talking. Well, honey, let's talk about our feelings with strong will our kids. That tends to make them furious. Lots of talking to does. So with these kids, what I learned to say is common example. A little kid makes a paper airplane, throws it. It doesn't fly well. So he's going to crumple up the paper and throw it down this airplane. Stupid. And most of us as parents come in, oh, honey, that was a good airplane. They're gonna be like, duh, it was a good airplane. It would have flown well. So instead, I come in with some intensity and I say, man, if I were you, I'd be frustrated, too. Put a lot of time into that airplane. It didn't fly right. That's frustrating. That intensity of validation for these kids is often very calming because now you're taking it seriously that what they did was important to them and it didn't work out. Right now, what I didn't say was, so therefore, if I would, you were you, I punch a hole in the wall or go hit your sister. I didn't say that. I just said, you should feel frustrated. And then I usually give them some space and say, look, I'm going to go get a glass of water. When I get back, let's problem solve how to do this differently next time. So then I remove myself, give them some space to process all of their feelings without standing over them. Because I. It's kind of. And. And I'm saying this. This is my own opinion. It doesn't mean Holly believes this or teaches. This is my own. But I don't give eye contact to kids when they're really, really upset like that because usually they're embarrassed and ashamed. So when I remove myself rather than standing over, honey, let's talk about your emotions right now. That works with certain kids, but with the kids that we've worked with, I tend to give them a little space to process, and then I come back and I'm not staring at them while they're upset. So that was a couple examples of, hey, there's nothing wrong with them. I'm just going to parent them in different ways because typical ways tend to backfire.

B (33:33)

Yeah, I agree. It's so interesting that we're having this conversation, because I am going to be covering how to communicate differently. At times, especially of high anxiety and frustration, I feel like when somebody is upset and certainly everyone is different, but a lot of kids that I work with, including my own, you know, if you are talking, talking, it is more anxiety, it's more frustration, it's fuel on the fire. And that doesn't help anybody. So what I'll usually do is, you know, let me know if you want me to stay quiet. I absolutely will. Or let me know when you're ready to move forward or to talk about this. And really, you know, they, a lot of times when they're frustrated, feel like they have no control over what's happening right then and being able to say, yeah, being able to say, you know what? You tell me when you are ready, instead of, again, putting more fuel on the fire. And I think we naturally do this as humans, right? We want things to be better. We want to make things okay. But when you say parent differently, this may not be the natural thing that you do that works for your children.

A (34:49)

You know, your words that you just used when you. So it's the same words we use. So kids, child's really upset, I'll often walk in the room. Common example was when our son would be yelling at my wife, at his mom, and I would come and say, hey, I can tell you you're frustrated. Listen, when you're ready, if you want to come in the living room and build with Legos, love to build with a spaceship with you. Hey, when you're ready, if you want to come outside and play catch, love to help you with whatever you're struggling with. So it was that. It was just what you said, when you are ready, it's giving them control of something. There's movement. We teach motion changes emotion. I like movement. For upset, neurodivergent kids, I don't like talking too much. I think makes them, like you said, more upset. It's hard to process language when you're upset. But saying, hey, you want to grab the football? I'll meet you outside? Okay, I can do that. I can sit and build with Legos. Just saying, hey, you need to calm down right now, young man. Well, how. I don't know how to calm down, because apparently you don't either because you're yelling at me, right? That's what my son said to me once. He was like, you're yelling at me to calm down, dad. Do you not see the irony in that? And I was like, you little jerk, you're not supposed to talk to me like that, but it was actually absolutely true. So I started using movement because now we moved out of that place where we were. Right. It's a typical, like, parent, child face off. I'm going to make you calm down now. Now it was, hey, when you're ready, gives them some ownership or control. The other thing I do sometimes is give them a job. Oh, you know what? I just remembered we're having spaghetti. Could you go to the pantry and get the spaghetti sauce? Could you get that. The top off that jar? Why? Just so instead of getting them to just calm down, I gave them a job to do that they're in control of and they can be successful at doing. And the very process of I get up, I go to the pantry, and now I'm helping do something that alone is calming. And now I get to say, oh, man, you're so strong. I really appreciate that. And now the child's more calm, and I didn't try to calm him down, so to speak.

B (37:02)

Right. And I think when it's not direct and really giving that space and really, again, knowing your kid, because giving them a task in that moment when they're really upset, that jar might go flying. Right. So it really depends. And you're checking in, kind of. And you know your kid better than anyone is. Where are they in this moment? And if they're able to do that task that they, you know, maybe a preferred one that they like. Like you said, you could turn around and say, you know, you're really strong. That's. That's awesome. So, you know, and I love that. And again, maybe the rulebook you thought was going to be there, you know, and that was what was going to happen in your parenting journey, here is a different way of doing it. And I feel like, not that things have been easy, but I feel like I am a much better parent now that I can stand back and realize, like, all the different ways things can happen, and maybe we can take a hard look. And the way we were parented, maybe that wasn't the best way for us.

A (38:11)

Yeah, you have to challenge all of those things.

B (38:15)

So it's interesting that you just said challenge all those things, because number four is your kid will change you.

A (38:23)

Well, it's. Kids will change you. There's two different ways. One, this one is because they're different than you. Right. And so that's one of the hard parts, Parent, like, especially, you know, if you're. For my wife, it was really hard for this reason. My wife is a compliant Rule follower. She was raised, just do what people tell you to do. And so our son comes along, and he's not like that. He's going to question everything. And so it's like, well, why can't you just be like me, right? Why? And so the beautiful part of these kids is that they will cause you to grow up and mature. And it's not just like one of those nice things to say, oh, they're. They're a blessing. They're a gift. Not in that way. In reality, they are because they will push every button you have. And the real issue isn't that they're good at pushing buttons. It's that you and I have so many buttons to push. And so they will bring out all. Holly, you know this because you're getting a little bit older. Like. Like, I. I'm much older than you. But, you know, we're just immature, broken people. And so they will find all those areas. Like, for me, it was. My dad was career military, so it was fear and intimidation, yell and scream. And I did that with my son when he was little. They don't back down. They're not moved by it. And so it's like, wait, this is all I know. This is my. This is my tool. My toolbox. And so my son would bring out all these things in me, and then now it was out in the open, and it was either change and fix a kid or change myself. And so, in all honesty, my son, especially has caused me to become an entirely different person than I was before I had him. And I am truly grateful for that. Now, some people, some people listening, you have harder situations, right? You have kids with attachment disorders. You have some really intense things. And so I don't want to sugarcoat it, like, oh, well, they're just going to make us into different people because it's hard. But if you can embrace their differences. And say what? Here's one thing this week is. What's one trigger that they're bringing out in you that you didn't realize you had? Because a lot of us before we had kids were like, I'll never yell at my kids, right? And that doesn't last very long. So just work compassionately on yourself, knowing that you're breaking generational patterns. And if you can embrace that, it's a really cool thing.

B (40:59)

You know, I love that you said this. And definitely a quote here is when you say, you know, they push your buttons, looking at the buttons, and nobody talks about that, right? It's. It's. Well, you and I do, but it's looking at those things, like, why are those buttons for you? Like, what's happening there for you? Instead of, let's fix and change that kid. Because like you said, they may be pressing those buttons to sort of like, oh, okay, maybe I didn't realize that was there. Or maybe those are things that I need to work through, you know, what's happening in this interaction, because there are two people, and we're usually only shining the light on the kid. How do I get them to stop pressing my buttons? Well, where do those buttons come from? And what's happening for you? And what do you need as the parent to figure out why are those such big buttons? What happens?

A (41:55)

How you were raised, right? Like, for me, it was. My dad was career military. So if you're not five minutes early, you're ten minutes late, right? Always on time. Well, you have a neurodivergent kid. They don't move according to the way everybody else does. So my natural response, Casey, Casey, Casey, get moving now. If you don't get in the car, you're going to lose everything you own. And then that. That tone of voice came out. And, you know, that's how the more you push them, the more they resist. The more you try to get them to go more quickly, the slower they go. And so what I finally went internally, not to blame yourself or beat yourself up. It was my childhood expectation was always, you got to be on time, got to go quickly, got to move quickly. And so I was a type a freak before Casey came along. And so what I learned then was, oh, if I do the opposite of what I'm doing now, because here's the cool thing, my anxiety causes the exact opposite response that I want. The more that I lecture, the more my kids don't listen, the more I rush them, the slower they go. So what if I did the opposite of what I normally do and see how that works? So I started actually slowing things down. And I would sit on my son's bed in the morning and wake him up to a compliment to talking about something he was interested in. And I found when I connected with him, I got a lot more cooperation. And so by slowing myself down, two things happened. One is I became a much more pleasant human being and not always anxious and rushed. And two, it just worked better. And so it not only changes you, it will actually just help things work better in your home with this child. So there's kind of like two benefits to. It's almost like listening to your child. It's almost like that thing of like your child mirrors back to you, your issues. Right. I always thought it was his issue and now I realize I have so many buttons to push. So it's a cool thing.

B (43:59)

Yeah, that is so true. I'm so glad we talked about that. Okay, number five, control parent anxiety about your child's future.

A (44:08)

Okay, so can I, can I. We skipped one. Can I just do it really quickly? The one on the list?

B (44:17)

Oh yeah, of course.

A (44:19)

The other one. It goes with the previous one. Your kids will change you because they're so different or your kids will change you because they're just like you. And so here's what's going to come up in you as good parents. All those traits that you had as a kid and as a person that have, have, have caused some pain or made life difficult for you. You see your child repeating those and because you're a good parent, it's like, oh, I don't want them to struggle with the same thing. And so you're going to try to change them out of a good heart. But now you're robbing your child of learning from the same things you learn from. Right. Like a lot of us are kind of stove touchers in life and we learn that way and we're like, oh, I don't want my son or daughter to go through this pain or discomfort. But sometimes you have to let them do that. And it's because, and it's hard because you see yourself in your child and I think just recognizing that that's what's triggering you can be really helpful. For me, it ultimately helped because I can say case, I've always struggled in that same area as well. Here's what life has taught me. So if you want to avoid some of the unpleasant things that happen, then try doing it differently. So anyway, I just wanted to throw that one in there for those of you who basically have a mini me at home and you want to change them so much. Change together. Like my. One of the beautiful things with our son is that I changed right in front of him. He watched me go from this type a freak who just yelled and screamed and couldn't control himself to being in control of myself. And he watched it happen. Like that was his greatest lecture was I watched my dad kind of be humbled by life and by his four year old son and change. So anyway, I just wanted to throw that out.

B (46:11)

Holly, no. And I'm, I'm so glad that you did. I think that's really important. Okay, so we were talking about that future. And we, we talked a little bit about this already. We touched on it.

A (46:25)

Okay, so controlling your anxiety about their future. I'll just do it bluntly because I know I've rambled a little bit. You are going to have anxiety about your child's future. You're going to look at what they're doing now and project into the future and assume that 12 year old boy who sits in a hoodie sweatshirt, the same hoodie for 18 straight days playing video games is going to be that same kid when they're 27. And inside you're thinking, who's going to marry this child? Who would possibly hire this child? And what. And you do this. We do the same for the 4 year old that can't sit still in circle time and who's walking around the preschool class, she can't follow directions, how's she ever going to succeed in life? And, and we take all of this on and project it out. And what I want you to know is they change, they change over time. Like you're different than you were when you were 8. I hope you're different. For men do this a lot because men have this like hero complex of like, look at me, I'm a 40 year old man. I'm so disciplined and I work so hard and I'm like, you were a dopey 9 year old also, right? You were, you were a 13 year old that was clueless. And if you're a man, you're still pretty clueless at 40 because we don't grow up till we're about 45. So but, but just be aware that that's your anxiety. And here's the one thing I would watch out for. The anxiety of projecting to the future will cause you to begin lecturing your child over and over again. You're going to go to that kid in the hoodie sweatshirt and say, you know what? If you would just apply yourself, you'd be capable of so much more. And, and, and you need to do this and this wrong. Beware of picking out all the negatives. If I had one homework assignment for you this week, for parents, it would be for one week. Observe, recognize and affirm the qualities that they already have and the traits, the things they're already doing well without saying, but just notice. Just notice the things they're already doing well that will build their confidence. It is very motivating. But anyway, I'll leave it there. But it's really important.

B (48:34)

No, that's a game changer. And so I think when we let ourselves, like, again, gently notice even the thoughts that come in. Right. Like, what if they, what if they're going to be in my basement for the rest of their lives? And who's going to take care of them when I'm not here? I mean, all those things are fears that our brain is sharing with us because we care so much. Right. It's that that's fear is going to come up. And so when it comes up, like you said, being able to notice it and be gentle and not beat ourselves down with it and certainly not say it, because I've had kids in my office plenty of times who say, my parents say I'm never going to be able to live on my own and all these things. And they're, I mean, they're, they're young and they're carrying the weight of this, and that's what they're telling themselves. Yeah, I probably won't.

A (49:29)

Right.

B (49:30)

And that's sad. Right. And I don't think any parent needs to. I think it comes out of fear. And because they love their kids so much, they want them to have a full life for them or their idea of a full life. Right. So, you know, this is really important that again, we just gently notice. And so I think that homework is right on.

A (49:50)

I think I'll, I'll help parents with this one. Just so you know. So most of your kids are not going to clean up their room. Their bathroom's going to be disgusting. I, I, it just is. And so our son was like that. And you have that natural anxiety of like, are they going to grow up and be on the hoarders? Are they going to have. Right. All these different things? Who's going to marry? Our son lives now about seven minutes from us. I was at his house last night. Our son was a complete, it was awful when he was a kid. We walk in his house last night because he made, he made me a steak dinner because he's a good son. You know what you have to do at my son's house? You have to take off your shoes when you walk in his house so you don't track dirt in there. His house is perfectly spotless. Why? Because he's a grown adult. Because he owns his house and because he's engaged and he doesn't want his fiance to think he's a slob. So they change. And I would encourage you watch your words. There was a time, you know, it's just recognizing that's your own anxiety. And one time I remember apologizing to Casey because he came downstairs, I was making breakfast, and I got on him. Hey, did you get. Did you get your homework done? Because you did. And I realized it was my anxiety, and I said, hey, Case, I apologize. That was my own anxiety because I'm behind on my work, and I just. I just projected that onto you. So not your issue. So look, in those things when I apologize, it's just a statement of truth. It's not a groveling thing. I've been such a horrible parent. No, it's just acknowledging. No, it's my own anxiety, and I apologize because sometimes. Sometimes I focus on the negative too much, and I apologize for that because I do see your future, and you have a great future, because I. I've seen it when you. When you play video games. Here's what I see. You're confident, you're engaged, you're a leader. You're really strategic. You're persistent because you don't do anything else around the house until you get to the next level. Right? You don't eat or sleep or do your schoolwork or pee or do anything. You're. I'm kind of kidding there, but I'm not. And so I'm not encouraging kids to play video games, but this is really important, I guarantee you, in different areas of life, like playing video games, doing things for other people, our kids tend not to be very good for us, but other people, our kids are amazing. And so you begin to put that together and say, I've seen these qualities inside of you. You have every quality necessary for success in life, and I've seen it. One day you're going to get a vision for your life, and you're going to put all this together. You're going to kill it in the real world. And then you give them a fist bump and you walk away and you drink. I'm kidding. But you're gonna feel like it because you don't see it right now. And I want you to look, I want. I encourage you call out those skills when you see them. Hey, you were down at the Johnson's house the other day. They. They just. They sent me a text and said you're amazing and that you are so helpful. Well, that's awesome, because one day you're going to be in the real world helping other people. You're already good at that at age 12. You just don't pick up your room. You don't do your homework, don't say these things. You're going to see all these things at home that they don't do find the areas where they do excel and put your energy into that.

B (53:10)

I like that because I think, especially with their interests, you know, really putting a lot of energy there. I think that's. That's so lovely.

A (53:22)

Yes.

B (53:23)

Okay. Number six, don't sacrifice your child on the altar of your own convenience or to make others more comfortable.

A (53:33)

Yeah, you're just gonna have to get a tough skin. Right. You're just gonna have to. Because people are going to be uncomfortable with your child. They're going to judge you. And forgive me for this, this is not Holly. But you kind of have to develop a little fu attitude. Right. You don't have to tell people that. But inside, some of you don't like that I'm strong willed. So I'm like, f you. Right. Your kids are. Don't tell me that there. That can be very therapeutic actually, to have that, a little bit of that. Or if you're a nicer person, you just say like, they just don't know what they're talking about. Right. They just, they mean well. Those people that are judging me mean well. But this is my home. I get to make the choices for what's best for my child. And I'm very resolute in that. And so do things look different in my home? Absolutely. Am I going to do things that are counterculture and against you? Right. You're gonna have to do it at church. For those of you in church, synagogue, in your faith, these kids, like Casey wouldn't go to children's church because he wanted to come into the adult service because he was an adult, like, kid. And then he could argue with the pastor over theological things because that's what our kids do too. So they're going to make you uncomfortable. They're going to embarrass you at times, and that's okay because again, that's your own immaturity at being embarrassed and caring too much what other people think. But I just encourage you this. No. You know your kid better than anybody else in the world. You know your child better than I do, better than Holly does, better than any teacher, any pastor, anybody. You do what's best for you and your family. Do weird things. Who can? Like, I love getting kids out of bed. Little kids with a treasure hunt. Hey, I hid your food, your breakfast outside. Bet you can't find it. And who cares if your neighbors are like, why is your son out in his pajamas every morning in the snow looking for his food? Because he loves doing that and because we love him being outside so we can Actually enjoy some peace and quiet. I'm kidding.

B (55:41)

But, yeah, we're not making kids go in the snow look for them.

A (55:45)

I'm kidding. No, here's. No, but here's. Here's the true example is our kids do like to problem solve. So doing a treasure hunt. You're in Raleigh. It's nice weather there most of the year. So springtime, you wake your child up or do a treasure hunt in the basement and hide their food. Is that different than how other people do it? Of perfect breakfast, of everybody sitting around together like Holly, that thing even. Of like, all those shows. Of like, the family who sits around the dinner table, let's share all the good things that happened today. And you're like, I'm just trying to get my kid one to eat something other than Mac and cheese Tonight. I'm trying to get through dinner without my husband yelling at the kids, let alone talking about all the wonderful things that happen. Your life is going to look different, and I want you to be able to embrace that and say, yeah, we ate Mac and cheese for six straight nights. You know why? Because it worked. And nobody's gonna die from that. We ate awful when we were kids. Don't be. Don't try to do life like everybody else is doing it. Your kids are gonna sleep differently. You're gonna put them in a sleeping bag and put them in, like, in a closet because they like confined spaces. And other people are going to be like, your family's so weird. And you're going to be like, well, your family's so boring. Right, Right. Like, it's like, sorry, God knew you couldn't handle anything other than compliant little people pleasers. So enjoy your perfect little life. I. I know that sounds a little defensive.

B (57:21)

No, My face hurts from smiling. That's hilarious.

A (57:24)

You have to have a little humor with it and know. So. So I'm not a bad mom if I just make a vat of Mac and cheese and. And 1800 chicken nuggets on Sunday night for the week. No, you're a good mom because that's what your child eats right now. And one day they'll eat healthy food down the road. Our son was a horrible eater. Like, when I do phone consultations, Holly. And people are like, we're concerned. My daughter only eats eight different things. I'm like, eight. That's amazing. Our child ate three. Like, what are you complaining about? When you live in this world, it's like, wait, so your son didn't get suspended? I think that's a good semester Right. Can I just throw out one more thing? Because I think it's helpful. Think for perspective what your kids didn't do wrong in that situation. Like, we used to get calls, like, your. Your son pushed someone else in the line at the cafeteria. And I'm like, okay, so he was hungry, and he has initiative. I like that about my son. Call me when he. Call me when he throws someone down and stomps him or puts scissors in the back of a kid's back. Right. Like, I know that's a little extreme, but it's like, think of all the things they didn't do. And I'm like, for my son just budding in line, I would give him a gold star for the day. Thank you, Casey, for not pushing someone down. You just manipulated someone to get in front of them. That was a good day for him. And so there are times where you have to say, okay, so my son did that, or daughter did that, but they didn't do X, Y, or Z. And that would have been way worse. I. I know that sounds a little bit. I don't know what that sounds like, but I think that's just reality for our kids is.

B (59:14)

Yeah. And I think the idea of. To make other people comfortable or ourselves, like, being able to kind of look at those buttons too.

A (59:23)

Right.

B (59:23)

Because that's another button, I think, for parents, and I think certainly for me, when I would be called into the school or. Or whatever that is. And then, you know, they're kind of questioning your parenting. Right. My mom said the other day, well, what has he eaten? What fresh vegetables and fruits did he eat today? None.

A (59:44)

None.

B (59:46)

I'm just telling you, none. And I'm not a bad parent. That's all. I just said none. And I'm not a bad parent. That was my comment, Mom.

A (59:54)

You know what's even more unhealthy is trying to control and judge other people.

B (60:00)

I love you, mom, though. Like, yeah, I know.

A (60:02)

I love your mom, too.

B (60:03)

Yeah, you love my mom, too. But I mean, it's. It's. We get it from everywhere. It is so true.

A (60:09)

Yeah.

B (60:09)

Okay, number seven. Define your values.

A (60:13)

Get. Determine what's important to you. And I would write it down. So for schooling, here's what we came up with was we want to raise a child who is curious and loves to learn, period. And then everything had to run through the funnel of, okay, is this promoting curiosity and loving to learn? Are doing endless worksheets doing that? No. So we cut some of those arbitrary things out. What is important? What are the qualities important to you as a family. And I would encourage you, you know, make this is a really useful exercise and especially to do with your spouse, because some of you have a spouse. And I'm just going to make it. I pick on men because I'm a man. And, and a lot of times moms are the ones watching these podcasts and you're the ones who read all the books and the husband. Men just don't read the books, okay? They just don't. Well, he's gotta, he's got to learn this. He's got to toe the line in school. So get out a piece of paper and put a little line down the middle and say on the left side, here are all the qualities necessary for success in school or to be a good kid. And then on the right side say, what are all the qualities necessary to be successful in life as an adult? And what you'll find is they don't always match up. And your kids will probably have deficits, so to speak, in the school column, in the kid column, but in the real life column, oh man, they're going to kill it, right? The ability to question things, critical thinking skills. A lot of them are old souls, right? A lot of them are persuasive, influential. Now we call it, we'll call it manipulative. But the flip side of manipulative is they understand human nature. They see patterns in things that seeing patterns thing, by the way, is phenomenal for life success. Our kids are just great at patterns. So, so what that helps you do is, is keep yourself focused on, I'm not raising a kid, and I'm not raising a kid to be successful as a kid. I'm raising this human to be emotionally healthy, to be successful in the real world. And so one of the key things that I, I try to tell parents is stop trying to make your kid be good as a kid or to be good at being good in the kid world. So many of our kids, they kill it in the real world. They're awesome for other adults and that's what you're raising them for. So even with chores like Casey, our son, he was never good at chores. You didn't want to do stupid chores. So we gave him adult type jobs to do and we counted those as chores. We work with families whose kids change the oil, but they won't take the trash out because if it's called a chore, they won't do it. But our son would got a job from the age of 12. He would go down the street to this Older couple's house. And he would help them around their house. Why? Because they weren't nagging parents like we were. And so we said that's what we're raising him to do, to be a good, conscientious human being who does nice things for other people. And he does. He just doesn't do anything for us. Right. And that. And I think that's reality. But if you have this list on the sheet of paper, you can say, oh, yeah, that's a great quality for life success. And then I focus on those more than the ability to sit still in school all day long and memorize information for a test that you're never going to use again. Well, what do I focus on? Well, we just chose to focus on the other things and, and for encouragement. Our son was not good as a kid. He just wasn't. He is 30 now. In the real world, that kid absolutely crushes it. He's good at all. All those things that irritated us about him when he was a kid are the very qualities that make him successful as an adult. And your kids are the same way.

B (64:23)

Yeah, I. I'll tell you, a lot of times, the kids that I see, my kids can be so persuasive. And it's a skill.

A (64:33)

It's great salesperson. You make absolutely a lot of money selling stuff, right? Like, all those things. Why can't you take no for an answer? And it's like, switch that around to, yeah, that's annoying. I get it. But what a great quality to have that persistence and to understand. Look, many of your kids make, like at the holidays when you get together, they make inappropriate jokes about relatives, and we're like, that's inappropriate. Stop it. But inside, you're kind of laughing because they're spot on. Well, that's because they see patterns and they get human nature because they're often. Look a couple things. One, they tend to be very good observers. The quieter ones, deeper thinkers, are observers. And plus, these kids are accustomed to feeling different and hurt. And so they feel things deeply. And so their ability to mock people, and especially your relatives is because they have great insight into human nature. Well, that's the reason you're a great therapist. It's not just your training. It's because, Holly, you get people. And so how are you a good salesperson because you understand what motivates people. You're a good marketer because of that. Like, there's. If you can step back, your kids have all these amazing talents. They just don't get grades for seeing Patterns they don't get. That's why they. That's why your kids don't want to show their math homework sometimes or their math work. Well, I looked at the problem and I saw the pattern, and I knew the answer instantly. Well, you need to show your work. Duh, I just showed you my work by getting the answer right. Right, like that. So you're going to argue with them for like, 18 years over that. But anyway, I. Your kids are going to be. Your kids are going to do well in life. Just pull those qualities out and let them know this thing of sitting still all day, you won't have to do that after you're like, 17. It's gonna be okay.

B (66:30)

Number eight, spend your energy supporting their passions.

A (66:34)

That's kind of what we were just talking about, so I'll do this one quickly. The trap we fall into is everybody points out the negatives and we think we have to fix everything that's supposedly wrong with our kids. So now they're going to cumin to learn math, and they're going to this and they're going to that, and their whole life becomes about trying to fix what's wrong with them. And you have to be judicious about that because there are some things that they need help with and. And they need to learn. And they may need to see a therapist about or go to an occupational therapist. But if you spend 80% of your energy trying to fix what's wrong, well, guess what? You don't have time for cultivating their natural gifts, talents, and passions. I'd rather switch it around and look in a very practical way. Our son, we knew from an early age was not going to be a scientist. He was not very good at math. I just knew that. And so I didn't put all my energy. Well, I've got to make you good at math. No, I just want you to be proficient enough. And I taught him how to budget. Casey, if you. At age 30, if you ask him multiplication tables, which I occasionally do when we're hiking, because I like to mess with him a little bit, he can't do them. He's not good at it. But if you ask him how to invest and you ask him his budget for the month, he can do the practical things. So we didn't spend a lot of time teaching that. We did spend time teaching him how to communicate both in writing and verbally, because you really do need that. But most of our time with him spent cultivating. What are you good at doing? Let's give you opportunities to shine rather than just watch that thing of trying to fix everything that's wrong. Some things. And this would be the value of seeing a therapist like Holly would be. Holly would be able to say, hey, those things, you don't have to fix that. We don't even have to work on that. These things, yeah, I'd like to give them some tools in this area, but I ra. I'd rather you spend much more time letting your kids build robots and build with Legos and play than just endlessly fixing them.

B (68:40)

I love that so much. Oh, my goodness. So, you know, not long ago, there is a person that I support, a younger kid who said, someday I'm going to be governor. And I have no doubt he will be. By the way, someday I will be governor, and everyone's going to have to be nice to people like me. And I was like, yeah. Oh, my goodness. This love him. And so the thing is, too, it's. There's so much beautiful, passionate, amazing things about our kids, our clients, our students. But when we gauge their worth based on things like doing the math quickly at the restaurant.

A (69:35)

Right.

B (69:35)

It's not. That doesn't even make sense. Right? I mean, there is no reason to do that except to have them feel bad. Like, that doesn't even make sense. You know, you can't base my future on did the drawer meet up for every cent that day? Is the answer is going to be no?

A (70:00)

Right.

B (70:00)

I'm just real. I'm just keeping it real. I can't believe they didn't fire me. But the thing is, it's like, you know, when we say, oh, my goodness, that's amazing. So right now, my youngest, he is working on getting more subscribers on his YouTube channel so he can get ads and things like that. So somebody else might say, well, what else is he. Is he doing this? Is he doing his homework? Is he doing well? But if this is his passion in his area of interest, I want to support that. So he's interested in snakes. So we go and look for snakes. And I asked this local snake person who. She's amazing. She spent two hours with us talking to us about snakes. Right? I mean, there's so many things that we can do to support their interests and to be able to put our energy and focus into. That not only helps them in their mental health, also shows them how many options there could be to do something you love. We don't want to set them up to do work they hate every day when they go in there. You know, we want to have them Explore those passions and have us support that.

A (71:13)

Absolutely.

B (71:16)

That's so good, Kirk. Thank you so much. This has been such a great conversation.

A (71:23)

I love this hobby. This was awesome. Thank you.

B (71:25)

It was so fun. I hope you come back and see me, too.

A (71:29)

I will. Let's do it again. Let's do it. Back to school time.

B (71:32)

That's a great time to do it.

A (71:34)

Let's do it August. I'll see you in August.

B (71:36)

I love it. We'll do it. So tell our watchers and listeners how they can find out more about you.

A (71:43)

You know what? The Calm Parenting Podcast, if you. Our website is celebrate calm.com, but if you just look up the Calm Parenting Podcast, it's on all the different platforms, and I think we've got 360 episodes. So every topic possible, just listen. And then on there is our email. And as you listen, if you have questions, email, if you would tell me that you're a fan or follower of Holly, because then that makes it a little bit more personal for us. And I'll answer your questions ahead of other people because I like Holly. She's awesome doing.

B (72:17)

Oh, I appreciate that. I will make sure to have those links in the show notes as well. So kind of pop down there and get right to your awesome content.

A (72:26)

And again, you know what else we're doing, Holly?

B (72:28)

Tell me.

A (72:29)

I'm an old guy. I'm doing videos on Instagram. My son, like, dragged me in. He's like, dad, you have to keep up with the young parents. So for the young. So I start doing these videos very awkwardly. And for some reason, people like it on Instagram. So we're pretty active there, answering questions and interacting. Just be nice to me on Instagram because it's filled with nasty people, too.

B (72:53)

Well, thank you for saying that because I'm right there with you. I'm like, what's this? What's a real. Can somebody break this down for me? So I am also trying to learn that. So I'm right there with you and everybody. You know, have patience.

A (73:06)

Where the kids are, Holly. It's where the kids are.

B (73:10)

Okay, girl, take care. And I look forward to seeing you next time.

A (73:13)

Okay, thanks, Holly. Bye.

B (73:15)

Bye. Thank you for joining me for this episode. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any important information. Today's episode is brought to you by the Free Behavior Detective Guide. If you are a parent, a teacher teacher, or a therapist and you support a child who struggles with challenging behavior, you absolutely want to get a hold of this free guide. So take a look in the show notes and click the link and you'll be on your way to getting the free guide in your inbox. Thanks so much and I look forward to seeing you next time.

A (73:56)

All content provided is protected under applicable copyright, patent, trademark and other proprietary rights. All content is provided for informational and educational purposes. No content is intended to be a substitute for professional medical or psychological diagnosis, advice or treatment. Information provided does not create an agreement for service between Holly Blanc, Moses Cross Vine Clinical Group, the interviewee Holly Blanc Moses, llc and the recipient. Consult your physician regarding the applicability of any opinions or recommendations with respect to your symptoms or medical condition, or the symptoms or medical condition of your family member. Children or adults who show signs of dangerous behavior toward themselves and or others should be placed immediately under the care of a qualified professional.