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- [00:01]
Kirk Martin
Hey moms and dads, don't you just.
- [00:03]
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- [01:21]
Kirk Martin
If you have a strong willed child, you are going to get judged by other parents, family and friends who whisper that you're letting your strong will with things. You will second guess yourself. Your spouse is going to third guess you and people are going to say you just need to discipline that child more and you're going to think in your heart, wow. We'd never thought to actually be firm, consistent, follow through on our consequences. Thanks. But of course you have done that. You have done all the right things and yet it still doesn't work with this child. So what can we do? Do differently? That is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. Welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us at Celebrate Calm. We've got a pretty active presence at our Calm Parenting Podcast page on Instagram and we also always want to let you know this. If you invest in our programs you get to get everything or the Calm Parenting Podcast or program as you listen to the programs on the app. If you have questions, if you need clarification, if you have a specific situation that comes up, always feel free to email our strong willed son Casey C A s e y celebratecalm.com and we'll be glad to help. And Casey can help you book live events or if you need help with financial assistance. So I'm going to frame this discussion with a fairly common example. And I'm really, look, I'm really excited about this episode because there is a lot of insight here that will help you. So let's say you've got two kids and we're going to say there's Kara, the compliant, kind of easy sister. And she says something mean to Sarah, the strong willed child. And mom simply says, kara, apologize to your sister. And Kara immediately complies. I'm sorry I was mean to you, Sarah. And mom smiles. You're like, this is easy. I'm a good parent. This is the way it's supposed to work. Well, the next day, Sarah, the strong willed child, says something mean to her sister. Mom says the same thing. To apologize. Sarah ignores her or stares directly right, right into your eyes. Mom then puts down her phone, her papers and marches and stands over Sarah demanding, young lady, you apologize to your sister right now. And as soon as mom stands over her and says, right now, an involuntary rigidness courses through the strong willed child's body and she reflexively blurts out no. In as petulant a tone as possible. And now World War three has actually begun. Because now the strong will child was mean to her sister. She just disobeyed. And then she was defiant to her mother. And it's about to get worse. Young lady, if I have to tell you one more time to apologize, you are going to lose your play date tomorrow with your best friend. See, mom is seething now and it's a standoff. You know where this is going if you have one of these kids. Finally Sarah utters, fine, sorry, stupid sister. Right? And now mom has had enough. She takes away the play date and Sarah predictably yells, you're stupid too. So now this strong willed child has the trifecta. She was mean, she was defiant, and now she's disrespectful.
- [05:03]
Co-host
So guess what?
- [05:04]
Kirk Martin
Dad comes walking through the door and guess what he's going to hear all about, right? Of course. And so he's going to dutifully walk up to Sarah's bedroom intending to talk to her about her behavior. Look, that never works. Well, you have to learn a different way. But when dad walks into Sarah's room intending to help her and talk to her about her behavior, guess what she's going to do? She's going to turn her back on her father. Father. Because now at least she's offended everyone in the family, further cementing her position in the family as the black sheep. Right? And internalizing that she's the bad kid, and everybody likes her sister more. And now you've got the seeds of Cain and Abel sprouting in your home. And the really hard part is that moment didn't do anything technically wrong here. She simply asked her daughter to apologize. And when Sarah didn't comply the first time, she upped the consequences like everyone has told her to do. Side note. You know what? I don't even know if I want to say that my side note. Look, my side note was this. And I hesitate to say this. Some of you have taken your kids or you've gone to therapists and you've spent literally thousands of dollars, and all they ever tell you is, well, you just need to be firm, set clear boundaries and enforce your consequences. But you've done all those things, and yet it still doesn't work with these kids. And so. Right, because everybody, this is what everybody tells us to do. So this is the dilemma that other parents don't get at all. And that's why you get judged, right? And this is why you feel alone. It's why you second guess yourself and wonder if you're letting your strong willed child get away with things, right? And how can you let her get away without a harsh consequence? But upon further reflection, when you really think it through, you realize this. We've given consequences countless times before, and yet nothing seems to, quote, get through to her. So you're exhausted and perplexed and you don't know what to do because you didn't do anything wrong, but it didn't work and it actually makes situations worse. So this is hard. Have you ever felt that way, right, like kind of at your wit's end. And you're tired of all the judgmental sneering from family and friends who say you need to discipline harder, but you've done it and doesn't work. So let's try a different way. So this is going to challenge and stretch you, but we've worked with hundreds of thousands of families and if you can embrace this, it works so much better. So what could we have done differently here? Conceptually, it's critical to understand the idea of ownership and why you must give strong will kids ownership and space or it will trigger countless power struggles. Ownership is giving your kids space to do things differently than you would do as long as they accomplish the same objective. You set your expectation and boundaries right, though you make your boundaries a little larger to accommodate larger than life kids. So you make your boundaries look, this is not permissive parenting at all. I'm not just Letting kids do whatever they want. I've got very clear rules, expectations and boundaries. But what I say is, hey, within this big box that I give you to live, we've got, it's very firm boundaries, very clear what I want. But I'm going to give you some space and time to own the way you do things, even if it's different than I would do it. Now, that's hard for us as parents. It's hard for many of you as well, because you are control freaks and you want things done a certain way. And some of you quite honestly have a very distorted view of what authority figures are supposed to be. Because a good authority figure is not a dictator. And a good authority figure is a calm, patient leader who teaches discipline means to teach. So I give space, kids space within these boundaries to do things differently than I would do them. So, and that's why I encourage you listen to the calm parenting package or get to get everything package on the website. The first thing I would ask you to listen to is either the 30 days to calm program because that'll help you deal with your triggers, or the strong willed child program because it's foundational. I've heard so many times. I've learned more from this one program than I have in 10 therapy appointments. So let's rewind the situation. Sarah, the strong will child, says something mean to Clara, the compliant child. Instead of reacting, mom walks by Sarah and whispers, hey, I know that when you're ready, you know the right thing to do. And then walks away and drinks. I'm kidding. You don't drink. But you're going to feel like it because now it's kind of out of your control, as if it was in your control anyway, right? So now it's kind of like you walk away and you're like, oh, when's she going to apologize? Shouldn't I be forcing her to apologize? Am I not being a good mom or dad because I'm not making her behave, going to wrestle with all those things, but you've already done all those things and they didn't work. So you walk away and give Sarah some space. Now here's just one of your challenges. Sarah is not going to apologize right away. She's not. She's not. She's not. She's not. And I don't care how much your spouse and parents and in laws and friends tell you differently or judge you. She simply not going to. These kids process things deeply and slowly. They want to do things on their own terms, not just because they are told to or expected to. And I know this irritates some of you or your spouse to no end. And you're going to think, well, we can't just let her get away with this. And the truth is, she's not getting away with this or anything else. She will apologize, just not the way that you want and not in the timing that you want her to do it.
- [11:44]
Co-host
So let's geek out together for a.
- [11:46]
Kirk Martin
Minute over Gut Health because I'm really into this.
- [11:49]
Co-host
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- [12:09]
Kirk Martin
Wonderful partner to the podcast. It's a quick, easy win because I.
- [12:14]
Co-host
Start my day with 75 vitamins, probiotics.
- [12:16]
Kirk Martin
Prebiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients. I just don't have that stomach distress anymore where that bloating, you know, that kind of interferes with your day and puts you on edge. Plus, my weight is down. I've got energy for this hiking season. I'm drinking my Ag one right now while I'm recording this, and I think you should as well.
- [12:36]
Co-host
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- [12:40]
Kirk Martin
When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3 and K2, which I love, and five free travel packs in your first box.
- [12:48]
Co-host
So check out drinkag1.com calm to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com calm to be kind to.
- [12:57]
Kirk Martin
Your gut so we just moved into.
- [13:00]
Co-host
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- [13:14]
Kirk Martin
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- [13:15]
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- [14:12]
Kirk Martin
So here's something that I really want you to internalize and please do this. This is going to be a common theme for your strong willed kids for their entire childhood and probably their whole lives. They simply are not going to do things the way that you want, how you want and always when you want. And again, this doesn't mean you just let them. Right? There are different circumstances and situations where I can get them to move more quickly. You have to go to school, got to go to a doctor's appointment. You got to get stuff done. This is not one of those cases. This is. There's a little bit more emotion going on here and we do have some time. So many of the dads that I work with start down that path of enforcing it and I'll show you. Write that like I'll show her and it just doesn't work. It backfires and these kids will dig in deeper. So what I want you to know is that you're not giving in. It's, it's. Look, it's not like I want you giving her whatever she wants. It's not buying her things. You're just giving her some ownership of her choices within your boundaries. Look, the expectation is clear. You want her to apologize to her sister. But the strong willed child is going to do everything differently. And I would implore couples, look, listen to, listen to the programs together, right? You can do it separately because each of you can get the app on your own phone. But really hash these issues out or it will drive you apart. So mom says, right? I know that when you're ready, you know the right thing to do. Here is why I like this. When you are ready is a fantastic phrase I want you to use 6,387 times throughout your child's life. Why? Because I can guarantee you 100% that when you command a strong will child to do something right now, that child will always be dig in and say no. Even if that makes taking a harsher punishment or consequence. Why? Think about this, and this is what's so important about this particular episode in getting this is this shows you how much your strong willed kids value their independence and autonomy and agency. It is a higher value to them than comfort or, or ease or convenience or acceptance by you. It's the sword they're willing to fall on. And you've seen this because you've been falling on your sword. And all that happens is Everybody ends up bloody in your home. So you've seen this a hundred times already. So stop fighting it. Stop thinking you can change your child's very nature. You know I talk very directly to men, right? Because sometimes we as men, we're like, well, I'll just show her. No, you're not. And all you're going to do is drive a deeper wedge between you and your child. You will then justify it because they're so difficult. And it will drive a wedge between you and your spouse because she cannot keep running interference between the child and her husband. And she can't keep managing everybody's emotions because you accuse her dad. Sometimes we accuse our wives of like, well, you're just coddling our child. And the truth is she's kind of coddling you because she knows what's coming. When your daughter is going through this and not obeying immediately, she can feel the tension in you. She can hear your tone of voice. And look, sometimes this is completely opposite with moms and dads, right? But I'm just picking on dads. Why? Because I'm a man, I'm a dad. I pick on men more. And usually we deserve it. So. Right? Because we dig in and we're like, I don't have anger issues. I'm like, sure you don't. You just have denial issues. So, Right. And so your wife can feel all this tension, knows what's about to happen. And so now she think about this. How many of you have a home or have a child in which if you do one on one time with the strong willed child, your child is amazing, you have a great time. As soon as the other spouse is involved, it goes haywire. And you know what that is? It's because you're not usually on the same page. And usually when mom is out with a little Sarah and they're doing things well, Sarah's allowed to stand, walk, not just on the sidewalk. Mom lets her walk on the curb because that's what our kids do, right? It has to be. Why can't you just, why can't you just walk on the sidewalk? There's a sidewalk for a reason. I get all that. But no amount of your yelling and getting upset is going to change the fact that, duh, everybody walks on the stupid sidewalk. I want to walk on the curb. It's smaller surface area. There's a greater chance I'm going to fall off. And I like that challenge get in their brains, understanding, understand how they work. So when you're out alone with your daughter, Mom Allows something when dad's along. Or it might be opposite of that, but in this case, Dad's along. Well, dad doesn't. Dad doesn't want that because Dad's kind of was military or dad's an engineer. Dad knows, like, there's a reason you have to do things and there's a sidewalk for a reason, and you have to walk this particular way, right? And so now this child who's usually allowed to walk on the curb with her mom now isn't allowed with her dad. And she starts looking at her mom like, hey, what's up with this? And now see how this works? And that's why it falls apart. And you have to get on the same page here, right? And look, even if you resent and don't like your spouse anymore, which I get, it happens after many, many years at times, do it for the sake of the child, because it's not right. And it's not fair to put a child in between. Let me just say it this way. Your own immaturity, because we're all immature as adults. And just because you haven't learned how to handle conflict, because you haven't been through the Calm Couples marriage program, but just because you haven't learned how to handle conflict and deal with things with your spouse. Now, guess who pays? An innocent kid. And I want to break those generational patterns, right? That's what we're really, really after is let's break the generational patterns. Otherwise, this just evolves. It doesn't end well. It ends with broken relationships for years and decades. So let me go back before I veered off. But look, this is important because I. Look, I'm getting older now, and what I'm trying to impart to you is hopefully wisdom from talking to working with literally hundreds of thousands of families. So I see the patterns and I care about people. That sounds. I care about people, whatever. But I do. And so, look, I don't have a vested interest if you want to do this and your family falls apart, right? It doesn't affect my life, but I want to do this because I've seen the pain that it causes and it's not good. So let's get back. So falling on the sword is where we kind of left off. Stop fighting your child and thinking you can change your child's very nature. And look, why would you want to anyway? Look, I know this is tough to deal with, but your kids, these are great qualities. It's who they are. It's the same quality that will cause them to Stand up and do what is right even in the face of pressure. It's the quality that causes them to be thought leaders because they don't always need or want social acceptance. They would rather have their independence. So when I say hey, when you're ready, it gives your strong willed child some ownership or agency. It's like it releases her to do what's right without a parent standing over her. And that's a huge key for these kids. If you have a spouse who is intent on just making your strong willed child do things, then you may as well go see an attorney right now because it won't ever work. The relationship between child and parent will be ruined. So your marriage over time because you can't keep running interference and doing these things right. So I also like what the mom did in the second version right of this is because what the mom did not do in this situation, she didn't crouch down and get on at lie level and lecture her daughter in that sweet syrupy tone, hoping her daughter will finally just once comply. Honey, you know it's really important to apologize and show you're sorry. I. Look, I, I hate that. I don't like that at all. And kids strong will kids don't like that tone of voice. It sounds condescending. I like talking to kids like they're adults. When I walk by and say, hey honey, I know that when you're ready, you know the right thing to do. See, you know why I know that? Because she does know the right thing to do. Because you and I have modeled it for her a hundred times before. When we mess up, we apologize. Right? And so there is no. Look, your daughter already knows that what she did was wrong and mean. That's why she did it. She doesn't need a lecture. She already knows to apologize because she's seen you guys do that before. I also like that mom didn't get personal and harsh. You know what? I don't know why you can't do something so simple like apologize. See, sometimes you can hear your own resentment coming out because you do so much for your kids and this child makes stuff so hard. And I get that. But do watch this and be sure to take care of yourselves emotionally, physically and spiritually so you don't get worn down and resentful. Mom also didn't compare the two kids as in, you know, your sister never does this. Please watch that. One of the first recorded stories of family life from about 6,000 years ago records what happens when you sow the seeds of comparison between Two siblings and a brother murders his brother. And you don't want the seeds of Cain and Abel rearing their ugly head in your home, right? And that's the cause of many sibling fights. Okay, so mom says, when you're ready, I know you know the right thing to do, and walks away. Now what? Well, you wait because that apology not coming anytime soon. And if you drop a hint, honey, you know, I think now would be a good time to apologize to your sister, right? Or pressure Sarah. Sarah, if you don't apologize in the next hour, right, you look, just reset the clock and start over. So you're going to be lying in bed with your spouse tonight once again worrying about this strong willed child. And by the way, we've received this really great email this morning from a couple who said when they get worried and want to lecture, they pull up a random program on their app and listen for 10 minutes just to calm them down, reset themselves. And I love that. So you're going to be asking your spouse, are we raising a sociopath? Why can't she just apologize? And this is especially hard for those of you who are kind of, kind of compliant, rule following parents whose natural instinct is just do what you should do when someone asks you. So watch this subtle dynamic as well. Many of you are so busy raising your kids that it becomes kind of like a job and you have to check off the boxes as if there was a parenting checklist. See, the more you have this checklist in your head, the more you will prioritize the checklist over the child and the relationship. So now, after worrying a little bit, talking, you eventually fall asleep. When you wake up in the morning, you discover that strong willed Sarah has done something kind and thoughtful for her sister as an act of contrition. And you're going to be tempted to say, okay, Sarah, now apologize to your sister and I'm going to challenge you once again. She already did apologize to her sister. How? By doing an act of contrition. Wouldn't you rather have contrition than a forced apology? And you're going to protest, but she is so pigheaded. And I'll respond, yes, she is, and so are you. Because you need her to do this in a certain way. And when she doesn't, it throws you off your internal, internal sense of order and right and wrong and justice. And those are your control issues to deal with. Because if we're honest with ourselves, we like doing things our way a certain way as well. And guys often hide behind a justification that, well, I'M the authority figure, so I get to call the shots. And I don't want you being a weak parent. I don't want you being a permissive parent or a sweet, soft parent who gets walked all over. But that didn't happen here. Your daughter did apologize. You just don't like how she did it and what it looked like and what it sounded like. And it makes you worry about her future. And I guarantee that part of the reason she won't use the words I'm sorry to her sister is simply because you want it. Let's say no, you need it. You need it too badly. You need her to use those words. Do you see how that works? Look, this podcast isn't really about an apology. It's about understanding the heart and brain of strong willed children and understanding your own triggers and control issues that cause power struggles. Because I promise, if you learn how to do this, you can stop most of these powers power struggles and enjoy your children. So let's practice doing this this week. If you need help, reach out to Casey at celebratecalm. Com and let us know how we can help you. Okay? We love you all. We thank you for sharing the podcast and we'll talk to you soon. Bye.