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Hey moms and dads, don't you just.

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So the other night, good mom walks by her strong willed daughter's room and simply asks hey honey, did you get your homework done? And she hears a grumble, kind of an excuse from the strong willed child. And so mom who's kind of frustrated and tired just says well maybe ask your sister for some help. She never seems to struggle and she hears from her strong willed daughter's bedroom these words F you mom. Now what are you going to do in that situation? That's what we are going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us@celebrate calm.com so look, there are various way things that prompt a child to just say F you to their parent. We've done some of this before. Look, there are times where it is prompted by anxiety, not making an excuse for it. But you have a child who has a lot of anxiety. You're asking them, pushing them to go to some new place, you're not really listening to them and they eventually say screw you, I'm not going. So I handle that a little bit differently because that's coming from a place of anxiety. Now sometimes you have a child and this can be younger kids nowadays, 8 year olds, 10 year olds, maybe a teenager who just looks at you sometimes and drops the F bomb on you or calls you the B word. And that has nothing to do with anxiety. There's no deeper thing going on. Here's what it is. That is a simple act of, hey, I'm testing boundaries right now and I want to see how you respond to that. And so I've covered that before. But let me do this quickly. For most of you, you're not going to know in the moment what to say, and so you're going to react. Instead, I just want you to say, huh, that's interesting. I haven't heard you say that to me before. Let me take a few hours and process that. See, I think that's perfectly smart. One, you're going to let your child sit in their defines because partly what they were looking for was, let me see how my mom or my dad is going to react to me asserting my independence and acting like I'm on an equal level with them. And so you saying, you know what? I'm going to process that. Now you're letting them sit in it and you're taking some time instead of reacting. Because I don't like to react to kids because that gives them power over us. And later on, a couple hours later, you can go up to that child and say, hey, I don't know where you got the idea that calling me the B word or using the F word with me would ever be appropriate. You know, maybe you got it from TikTok. Maybe you hear some of your friends say it and their parents let them go get away with it. Not in this home. Moms and dads. I want you to know that really sweet thing, I'm very understanding of kids, right? You've heard that before. A child with anxiety who doesn't feel good about themselves. I'm going to cover it in this podcast, but there are times where it is simply outright defiance and they're testing the boundary. And that really sweet thing that we do and we're assuming, well, they only said that because they're dysregulated. That's not true. Not all the time. Kids test boundaries. Kids hear things from other kids and they want to see, well, Johnny said it to his mom, maybe I'll try it out. And what your kids deserve from you is for you to be decisive and provide clarity. I don't want you screaming and yelling. I can't believe that you would say that to me. How dare you talk to your mother or father like that. When I was a kid, if I would have done that, I don't need any of that overreaction. But I Also don't want you doing well. Honey, you must be really upset to say something like that to Mommy or Daddy. No, that's not true. Sometimes kids say it in a very calculated way. And so what you owe them is clarity and being decisive. And when you go up to their room later and say, hey, I heard that, I don't know where you got the idea that would be okay, but what you're presuming is that you're on an equal level. And if that's the game you want to play, then you can have equal responsibility with me in this home. And that means that all those things that you have that you enjoy, they're not yours because I bought those. And so you can start working for those video games in that phone and you can. Right, and I can start to reset the expectations. Now, is that really where I'm going to go with it? No, but I want them to know, hey, if you're going to use that language with me and then I'm going to turn around and, and take you places and make you meals and do everything with you, that's not how life works. So that's kind of a nice reset for that. But in this case, something different is going on. And part of the reason I want you to be in control of yourself is that in the moment, you can read the moment and what's really going on instead of reacting to it and just being upset. So let's set the stage. This is a single mom who has two tween teen daughters. One is the strong willed child. The older one is the more compliant, easy, motivated kind of daughter. And so mom is walking by the room, she knows that homework oftentimes doesn't get done by the strong willed child. So she just asks, hey, did you get your homework done? Now what I want you to know is the strong willed child is going to hear that, not as, oh, my mom cares about me so much that she's just asking if I got that done. What they can hear, partially rightly so, is your own anxiety. Well, if you don't get your homework done and you don't get good grades, you don't graduate, you can't go to college, you're not going to get a good job, nobody's going to marry you, I'll be a failure as a parent. Some of that is wrapped up in that. The strong willed child often hears that as an interrogation. Why haven't you got your gotten your homework done yet? What have you been doing instead? Are you scrolling through Instagram instead of Doing your work. You've had all afternoon to do it. I've hired tutors for you. See, there's a lot wrapped up in that. And the strong will child is usually defensive to begin with, especially when they have the perfect brother or sister. So you, your daughter, in that case, heard that as an accusation, as pressure, as interrogation. And so that's when she says, f you, Mom. And see, there's a difference too in it that one of those other situations was fu. You're a B word, right? That's a lot different. This was F you, Mom. And in there, what I hear is tired. You're always assuming the worst about me. You don't like me. All those things are kind of adding up in this situation. And so the mom who shared this story with me gave me permission to relay it to you. And so as I was talking to her, she said, look, originally the first thing I said was, what did you just say to me, young lady? And then she called herself and she stopped because she said, I've heard you say, like, stop, don't react. And she said, what was in my head was, after all I do for you, I go out of my way. I take you to therapists, I let you miss school, I fix you special meals, right? I make excuses for you if you think you're going to talk to me. All those things were in this mom's head, as they should be. Look, being calm doesn't mean you're like, oh, my daughter must be upset. No, you're a normal human. You should inside be reacting in all kinds of ways to your child and your kids doing these things. I don't want you to be superhuman or robot. That's going to hurt. It's going to make you angry. Being calm doesn't mean you don't react. It doesn't mean you don't feel things. It just means I don't react to situations like that. Because, see, that always messes. That always leads to bad stuff, right? So instead, mom stopped. And when she stopped and stood there in the awkwardness of that situation, guess what she saw? She said, I saw tears when rolling down my daughter's face. And she said, see, something starts to change here. And her daughter in that space filled the void and say, mom, I didn't ask to be born this way. It's not like I chose this brain so that schoolwork's always harder for me. And I don't always like being different and not fitting in. It's not that fun. I've been in trouble since. Since I was little, and I still think that I'm partially the cause of you and dad getting divorced. Don't miss that one. That happens with our strong will kids. She said, I didn't choose to have the perfect sister. So screw you and your perfectionism and never being happy with me. And look, even there, like me saying that I can feel that emotion in there. Does that mean I'm like, oh, she's hurting, it's okay? No, I don't go to that extreme. But I do begin to hear that. And the pain. See, this is defiance that comes from a broken relationship, from a child that often feels broken. And the daughter even said, it would have been better for you if you had stopped after my sister was born. And then mom said she slammed the. The door on her. Now, this takes a lot of patience to not just start banging on that door and say, you open the door, young lady. You're not going to talk to me like that. Because mom said, I was livid. I was indignant. I was shocked. I was kind of frozen, horrified, crying. And I felt this wave of resentment after all I've been through with this daughter. And she talks to me like that. And then there's guilt that I cause this. What about the divorce? And she's wrestling with all these conflicting thoughts, like, am I letting her get away with this? What would my parents think? Am I being too soft? Right. How do kids talk to their parents like this? I would have never said that. And she's dating. This mom is dating a new guy. He was downstairs. Hey, what is he going to think? He's probably going to leave. You think he wants to put up with all of this? How did I go wrong? How is this daughter ever going to be successful, successful in life? And all of those things are just starting to play in this mom's brain. And she wanted to lay into her daughter. She would have been justified. Moms and dads always realize you would be justified in laying into this daughter. You're justified in getting on your kids and lecturing them all the time. You're justified, but that doesn't mean that it's good or, or helpful or that it actually works. And she said, I heard your voice. She said, I listened to your programs on my commute, back and forth. And sometimes I play them with the daughters in the car. And I remembered the story, because I've told a story before, of a similar situation where a boy told his father to F off. And she said, I never thought that would have happened to me. When we moved to our home. We were quoted a cost of over $20,000 for some trees and shrubs, but we just saved 90% with fast growing Trees and they helped us get the exact privacy and flowering trees and shrubs for our specific climate and it's delivered right to our door in days. Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers including us. They take the hassle out of creating your dream yard. Their alive and thrive guarantees ensures your plants arrive happy and healthy. Plus get support from trained plant experts on call to help you choose and care for the right plants. This spring, Fast Growing Trees has the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants. 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When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3 and K2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So check out drinkag1.com calm to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com calm to start your day with a win. Look, I know this is hard for many of you because you maybe grew up in a more authoritarian background, maybe a more conservative or religious background. These things just never happened because they couldn't. And you were like, well I'm never going to let that happen in my home. And now you're struggling with the same thoughts and feelings as this mom, right? Am I letting my kids get away with things? Am I being too soft? Did I cause this? How did all of this work? So here's what the mom did. She said, I walked downstairs. She said, I've learned I have to give my daughter space. So I'm going to kind of. I'm going to relay what the mom told here and give you some of those principles that we use of. I controlled myself first. Instead of controlling my daughter's mouth that I wanted to rip off, I controlled myself. I gave her some space. I didn't react. I humbled myself because I had the right and was justified to yell at her and take everything away, but I didn't. And this mom went downstairs and she said she sorted some of the receipts that she had for her business that she runs on the side. And she said, I did some laundry, I folded laundry. Because I've learned that when I'm upset, I'm out of control. And I always try to give my kids control of something in their life. Why do the same thing? And that gives me a sense of. Of order. Then the mom texted her daughter an apology. And here's what she said. You're right. Everything you said is right. And I apologize. And then the mom waited for a response, which, as you know, never came. And that's frustrating because you're like, you know what? I humbled myself. I did the right thing. I apologized. Why am I not getting that response? If any of you are dealing with outright refusal to do things, I'd encourage you. If you have not heard it, go back and listen to. It's called my best podcast of 2024, outright refusal. I believe I did it in May. It's extremely helpful. So go back and listen to that one. It's very foundational for these situations. So mom said. I then asked my boyfriend. I asked him to go home because, well, I wanted to focus on this situation. I knew I didn't know where it was going. So after a little while, she went up, she knocked on her daughter's door, and she said, honey, I'm sorry, do you want to go for a late night walk with me? Because it's something they have done for a really long time. So, you know, it's funny, that was a text coming through from some parents whose child had done something similar to this. So forgive me for the noise, but this is real life. This is how things work. So this mom and daughter have had developed a little routine where they would go for walks late at night in their pajamas in their neighborhood. Why? Because there's something about walking in the night and being a little bit in the dark and not Having someone stare at you, it's a better place to communicate. And the mom said, I promise you, if you come with me, I will listen to you and I won't lecture you. And so what happened is they went for this walk after a little while, and the daughter opened up and said, I have never felt good enough for you and good enough for dad. I've always been overshadowed by my perfect sister, and I do live in her shadow. And I'm angry about the divorce. I don't like going back and forth between the homes and being caught in between you two. It's weird that you're dating someone. I've only ever known you being with dad, and now there's some guy here, and I think that's weird. And I struggle with that. And it feels like I'm always under your microscope and you're lecturing and managing me, and you're only focused on the things I'm not good at. And I have a different path than my sister. And neither you nor dad are accepting that. You keep trying to make me in your mold and like everybody else. And I've tried to tell you that, and you guys don't listen to me. And part of the reason I said that to you is because, look, I'm feeling this inside. I've tried to tell you before, but you didn't listen because of your anxiety, because of all that stuff that you have going on, because of your dreams for me. And you didn't listen. So I finally thought if I told you f you, mom, that maybe you. You'd finally listen. And so, look, this is not an excuse for your kids to do these things. But we're often very guilty of that with these kids. I know. I hear that. Hear that? But here's how you have to do life. And I've got control issues and I've got anxiety. You've got to do it my way, because this is the right way. And some of us, we don't listen to our kids until it's too late or until they drop things like this on us. And she said, I've never felt accepted for who I am. I've never felt like I've ever been the kid you wanted me to be. And then. Then after she said this and the mom said it was for the first time, in some ways, I actually heard my daughter. It took her dropping the F bomb on me to actually hear her. And it was after that that my daughter said, mom, I'm sorry. I don't want to say those. I know that was Wrong. I didn't know what else to do, and I'm sorry. I know that's wrong. And so they talked, and mom mainly listened. They started working on a plan together. And eventually the mom said, hey, what do you think your consequence should be? And this was beautiful. The daughter said, well, I know you usually go out on dates on Friday night with your weird boyfriend. I'll go along with you guys. I'll go out to dinner with you because you ask me and I never go and I'll actually be nice to him. And it was such. And the mom said that was a very humbling thing for the daughter to do. To do that. That was really a giving thing because she knew that that's what her mom partially what she wanted. And then the daughter also said, if you don't want me to go out with you on Friday night to dinner, then I'll actually eat your food. And that was a little dig because this mom's not always great at cooking. But it was. See, there was a little bit of humor in there. There's a little bit of that resetting of the relationship. So let me tie this together for you so as you experience different things with your kids, encourage you with this. Remember we talked on the last podcast, when you're about to lecture, yell, correct. Stop. Just, just put a red. Have your kids color, or just cut out like a red stop sign and put it on your refrigerator because you're in the kitchen a lot, right? And so it's a reminder. Stop. Reset yourself. You don't have to react right away. I know in a lot of circles, like, well, you have to discipline promptly. Yeah, sometimes, but sometimes that just makes things worse because you're super reactive and emotional. I want you to reset yourself. Practice resetting. You know, the mom realized here, remember at the beginning of the story when she walked by her daughter's room and said, well, maybe you should ask your sister because she never seems to struggle. Mom knew at that moment, she said, told me later, she said, I knew. I just stepped in it right there because that statement carried with it so much of my resentment and that comparison between the two girls. And she knew something was coming. So there's a certain point, maybe after you react right after that, like, young lady, you're not going to talk to me like that. Look, you're going to mess up, and this is really important. You're going to mess up. Why? Because you're human and this stuff is really hard. I want you messing up less frequently, obviously, but you're going to Mess up. And in that moment, don't double down. One of the things I used to do, because I'm very much like our strong will kids, I was like, well, already kind of messed it up. I may as well double down and triple down, and the whole night's probably going to be ruined anyway. Why don't I just lay into my son on everything he's ever done wrong? And instead, what I learned is the reset, which is, oh, I just stepped in it. I just reacted. I just said something hurtful to my son. Rather than going on and on, I reset. And I'd say, case, what I just said to you, that wasn't your issue. That was totally my issue. Because I'm frustrated, because I'm behind all my work, because I'm anxious. My issue. And I'll tell you, it is one of the most powerful things you can do because you are modeling right in front of your kids that you stopped, you controlled yourself, you apologized, and you owned it. You owned your own reaction instead of blaming it. And so mom did that, and she recovered, and then she went. There was nothing soft about this, and there wasn't anything too harsh. What I really want, moms and dads, I want you to learn is we don't have to do the extremes. Right? Right. It's like the initial example of don't make excuses for everything either. Well, she was just tired and he's dysregulated. No. Sometimes kids are just outright defiant, and sometimes they're testing the boundaries. And I'm going to repeat this again because it's really important. You owe your kids to be decisive and to show them clarity that no, there is a red line. There is a line in the sand in our home, and that one you do not cross. I can be understanding when it's anxiety. When you're a little kid and you've been to a birthday party and you had too much cake and you're tired and you're wound up. See, I read the moment and I get to know, okay, my child was at a sleepover. Look, your kids at a sleepover last night. Guess what? They're not going to be awesome today. Read the moment. Don't ask a lot of them that next day, okay, we've got to do chores. You got to do your homework. Got to get ready for school on Sunday night, after you had a sleepover on Saturday night. You're just asking for a meltdown. Slow it down. Read the moment. I would encourage you. If you don't have our programs, go through our programs because like this, mom, you play them on your commute while you're working out in the kitchen, while you're doing your chores, and this becomes a lot more natural. So thank you for listening to this. Thanks for being open to doing things differently. I know for many of you from, like, an authoritarian background, you're like, oh, it sounds too soft. When do we get to calm down on them? And then many of you came from the opposite direction. You're like, well, I just talk sweetly to my kids all the time. And this sounds kind of harsh to you, but I think it's right in between where I'm calm, I'm an authoritative leader, and I lead by modeling. Okay, I'm going to stop because you got to the point. Love you all. Appreciate you as parents and how hard this is. Appreciate you sharing the podcast with other people. As always, stay in touch with us and let us know how we can help you. And I'll see you on Instagram mainly. Okay, talk to you later. Bye.