Calm Parenting Podcast

Episode: How to De-Escalate & Discipline Defiant Behavior (#521)
Host: Kirk Martin
Date: September 24, 2025

Overview

This episode centers on practical ways to handle defiant behavior in strong-willed children—especially those who don’t respond to traditional disciplinary tactics. Kirk Martin shares honest personal stories and evidence-based strategies, drawing on his work with over 1,500 challenging kids and his own experiences as a parent. The focus is on de-escalating emotional situations, disciplining effectively without excusing bad behavior, and ultimately teaching rather than punishing.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem with Common Parental Responses (05:25–11:30)

• Resentment and Power Struggles:
  • Kirk shares that typical parental reactions—like listing sacrifices parents make or demanding respect—stem from internal resentment and create a power struggle.
  • He reflects on the pattern: “If I would have done this, I would have gotten all those different things... Speak of a lot of resentment for some of you.” (06:25)
• Personal Triggers:
  • Kirk acknowledges projecting his own unmet needs and unresolved issues onto his child: “I needed my son to behave so I wouldn’t lose it.” (13:15)
• Ineffectiveness of Escalating:
  • Escalating the situation by yelling or piling on consequences doesn’t work with strong-willed kids—it pushes them further into defiance or avoidance.

2. Honest Self-Reflection as a Parent (11:30–15:50)

• Parental Admission:
  • Kirk recounts moments where he justified his outbursts because his child’s behavior was worse, revealing an unhealthy dynamic.
  • Memorable quote:

    “I am a grown man in the house and I can’t even control myself, yet I’m yelling at this child to control himself.” (12:09)

• Breaking Negative Cycles:
  • He encourages parents to do “a little bit of soul searching” to recognize and break internal cycles instead of escalating.

3. De-Escalation Must Come Before Discipline (15:50–23:20)

• “Motion Changes Emotion”:
  • Kirk asserts the need to de-escalate before disciplining, using movement (like playing catch or taking a walk) to change the emotional dynamic. (16:30)
• No Eye Contact When Upset:
  • Direct eye contact can worsen shame and defensiveness in heated moments.
• Even, Matter-of-Fact Tone:
  • Mastering a calm, neutral tone is crucial; “You must, must, must master the even matter-of-fact tone with a strong-willed child.” (17:18)
• Giving Back Control:
  • Provide the child with small, manageable tasks to help them regain a sense of control (e.g., fetching spaghetti sauce, helping with Legos, moving mulch).
• Non-Verbal Invitations:
  • Instead of confronting the misbehavior directly, make calm, open-ended invitations:

    “Hey Case, I’m going outside... When you’re ready, if you want to come outside and play catch...” (18:07)

4. Creating New Routines and “Fire Drills” for Emotional Outbursts (21:00–27:30)

• Pre-planned Missions:
  • Prepare simple, hands-on activities—or “fire drills”—to redirect emotional energy quickly.
  • Example:

    “Oh, I just remembered…” (invent a task to give yourself time to think and give them direction.) (20:55)

• Physical Activities:
  • Sensory-rich activities (moving mulch, climbing, building) help children regulate and work off frustration.
• The Power of Togetherness:
  • Instead of sending a child away, invite them into shared, calming activities.

    “When your world is out of control, mine’s not. I can handle you when you’re at your worst.” (22:35)

5. Discipline as Teaching—not Punishment (27:30–37:00)

• Curiosity vs. Condemnation:
  • Use phrases like, “I know you know that was wrong. I’m curious—what was going on underneath the surface?” (28:30)
• Getting to the Root:
  • Focus on understanding underlying triggers rather than repeatedly addressing surface behavior.
• Problem Solving Together:
  • Collaboratively brainstorm new routines and strategies after identifying triggers—for example, a new after-school tradition to release frustration constructively.
• Role Playing:
  • Use role play to practice better future reactions, which Kirk describes as far more effective than punishment.

6. Encouraging Ownership and Growth in Your Child (37:00–44:20)

• Facilitating Apologies:
  • Let the child reach a place of genuine remorse instead of demanding apologies. De-escalation leads to authentic accountability.
• Teaching Inner Awareness:
  • Instead of controlling only outward behavior, help the child recognize their own triggers and develop tools to manage them.
  • “That is more important than anything they’re ever going to learn in school.” (38:00)
• Modeling & Family Growth:
  • Make trigger-awareness a family project—parents and kids learning together.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Internal Parental Needs:
  “I need you, son or daughter, to behave. Because if you don’t behave, I’m not sure I can behave. And you do not want to see me angry.” (13:15)

• On De-Escalation:
  “First, you always de-escalate before you discipline. There is no good discipline that happens when everybody’s upset.” (16:00)

• On Invitations Instead of Confrontation:
  “Hey, I’m a little hungry so I was going to run up and get a smoothie, grab a couple tacos if you want to meet me in the car at 5.” (18:38)

• On Discipline as Teaching:
  “Discipline means to teach because we’re now in a calm, non-defensive, non-heightened state.” (28:05)

• On Family Growth:
  “Instead of merely focusing on your child’s outward behaviors, you begin to help your kids identify their inner triggers that cause them to misbehave. And isn’t that what we’re all doing... as grownups?” (38:20)

Actionable Strategies & “Homework” (44:00–45:35)

• De-escalate before disciplining (motion changes emotion).
• Avoid direct eye contact and emotional confrontation in heated moments.
• Practice an even, matter-of-fact tone.
• Give children small tasks to help them feel in control.
• After emotions cool, be curious—help them problem solve and identify triggers.
• Remember: The aim of discipline is to teach, not punish.

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |------------|--------------------------------------------------| | 05:25 | Common parental responses and resentment | | 11:30 | Kirk’s self-reflection and breaking bad cycles | | 15:50 | Motion changes emotion; de-escalation strategies | | 18:07 | Non-verbal invitations (football, tacos) | | 21:00 | “Fire drill” routines and physical activities | | 27:30 | After regulation: how to discipline and teach | | 37:00 | Encouraging reflection and family growth | | 44:00 | Practical weekly “homework” for parents |

Final Takeaways

Kirk Martin shows—with humor, honesty, and practical advice—that de-escalation is the essential first step before discipline. By modeling self-control, inviting openness rather than confrontation, and addressing the underlying needs behind defiance, parents can teach strong-willed children life-changing skills. The goal is not mere compliance, but equipping children (and parents) with tools for self-awareness, emotional regulation, and improved relationships.