← Calm Parenting Podcast
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Hey moms and dads, don't you just.
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So how many of you have a child who is a relentless arguer? Or maybe they need to get the last word in or prove their point. Or maybe you married or they have this high strong sense of justice and fairness is very important to them. Or maybe they're like a little cop, judge and attorney all rolled into one. How do you use these traits to your advantage without it driving you crazy? That is what we're going to discuss on this episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us@celebratecalm.com youm can find us on we're very active on our Instagram page at Calm Parenting Podcast. So this is usually when I say, hey, if you're struggling with something, email our son Casey. But Casey is getting married this coming week and so I'm going to ask you a favor. Look, if something's urgent, email us. If you need help financially getting our programs, email us. Those are quick and easy. But if you have a long email you want to write about your family situation, I'd ask you to do this. Go back and binge listen to past episodes of the podcast or if you have our programs, get our programs. Download them to your phone. You have them forever. Your spouse gets access on their own phone. Or have your parents listen, go through the programs and start working at this work on Yourself and make a list. Write down your triggers or a couple situations that you're struggling with. Write that down, write an email to yourself, and in a couple weeks on the podcast, I'll say, hey, all clear. Email us. But for now, I just ask you to give us a couple weeks to enjoy the family time together. Because the truth is, we're really, really conscientious about when people email us. And we answer a lot of emails each day because this is our family mission. And I just don't want to be in the middle of celebrating all of this and being like, oh, I have to answer that. So, again, if it's urgent or something simple, let us know, but otherwise, wait till we get back. But in the meantime, just work through these things. Apply the principles to them as you go through our programs, because I think they're pretty methodical. And a lot of these things you can just work through. So here, let's get to this question of, like, these kids that are relentless arguers have to get the last word in. So before I get to the big example, here's a very common one. Casey would come at me. Look, you can see it in your kid's eyes. And he just wanted to argue. And so what I learned was this. I would see that look in his eyes and say, hey, Case, I know what you're after right now. I'm not going to argue with you. I'm not going in the courtroom. You're really good at this, and I'll end up losing. But I know what you want right now. You want my intense emotional engagement. That's even, you know, it's brain stimulation. But I like going a little deeper. It's just intense emotional engagement. Because when your kids start arguing with you, watch what we do. You put down your phone, you put down everything. Hands on hips, or you walk closer to your child. And now you are giving them 100% of your energy and intensity. And that feeds something inside of them that they don't normally get when they're just doing things well. So I would look at them, say, hey, not going in the courtroom, not going to argue right now. But if you want to do x, y, or Z, man, I am all in. So the process is, instead of reacting to your child's outward behavior, step back. This would be a great thing to do for the next two weeks. Study human nature. Study your kids for the next two weeks while we're celebrating this wedding. Be a student of your child. Get to know, because we go through this in great detail in a lot of the different programs, of the root of it, the ADHD university. Even if your kids don't have that, if they're a strong willed child, it'll apply. It's their need for order and structure. It's sensory needs or it's brain stimulation. So you step back and think, what's the child really after? And then instead of reacting, I feed them and I meet the internal need. Or you have that child, right, that has that high sense of justice and they're going to argue with you and fairness is really big to them and they want you to finally capitulate. And sometimes we had a lot of those kids that came to our camps at our house. And I'd say, I can't satisfy that in you right now. I can't. I know what you want is order and structure. You want to tie it together so it's all black and white so you can feel at ease inside. I can't provide it that way. And I'm not going to argue with you. But here's what I can do. I can give you something you're in control of because I know you're really good at doing X or Y. Could you do that for me? Because that would really help and that would meet this sense inside. I would also the sense that this sense for order inside. I would also always say to them, look, relationships are more important than being right because you can be right, but you can lose the relationship. Sometimes with Casey, when he was in that mood to argue, and I'm not recommending this, but it's kind of fun sometimes. And in a handful of occasions I would say this, hey, you know what, Case, you're absolutely right. And then I would walk away. Was he right? No, but I didn't need to be right. I just didn't want to argue with him and it would really throw him off. So occasionally you could do that. What about the kids who just have to get the last word in? This is where I'll be tough on you. In my experience, 95% of the time it's totally your issue. You know why? Because you have to get the last word in. You have to prove your point and you're going to justify, well, I'm the parent, I'm the authority figure. No, you don't have to get the last word in. Why? What is it within. I'm just going to be tough on you because I want to free you from needless drama over. I can't believe that my child always has to get the last word in. And I'M like, I can, because you do it all the time. Where do you think they got it from? And so, being tough on you, I'm going to ask, why do you feel compelled to get that last word in to prove your point? Because it feels. It's like, it feels it compels you. And see, if something compels you, then there's anxiety in it and it's not peaceful and it doesn't lead to anything good. And so I'm going to challenge you for the next two weeks. Let it go. Let them get the last word in. Oh, no. But it really irritates me. I know human beings irritate me. You know who else irritates me? Me. I irritate myself. Why? Because we're human. And if you're just going to walk around getting irritated at people for everything, then you're just gonna be miserable and everybody's gon power over your emotions because humans are irritating. And for the guy, I'm just going to address the guys. For the guys out there who have to prove their point, because I was that guy. And here's what I found in life. People who have to prove their point are. I can't say what I was going to say. It just. Here's what it proves that you're a jerk. And that's what I was when I always had to prove my point. Nobody's going to say, like, man, you're so intelligent. You put together such cogent arguments. I'm just in awe of you. No, they're just going to walk away and say, that guy's a jerk. So stop being a jerk and let it go. And I promise you guys, your wife doesn't care. She's never going to say, you know what? I'm so glad that I married someone who is so logical and points out that my emotions are irrelevant or illogical or not legitimate. It makes me safe to feel like I'm with someone who's always right. You want to go up to the bedroom? Like, they're never going to say that. It's just. So prove your point. It took me a full year of working on an affirmation of saying, I do not have to prove my point. So let that stuff go. That's your issue. But what about that relentless arguer? So here's how it works. So I would walk into my home, or home after work, and Casey would be there waiting, like, dad, you have to take me to the store to get X. You have to download that new video game for me. And my response would usually be. Not happening today. No. Short and sweet. My discipline is usually very short and sweet. Very few words. The more words you use, the less valuable they become, and your kids stop listening to you. You know what else short and sweet is? Confident. The more you talk and the more you kind of explain, the more you kind of get worked up. And your kids know they have you on the ropes and they're like, oh, he started talking. She started explaining herself. I'm going to use that to my advantage because they're really good at that. Short, sweet. Hey, not happening today. Here's the other reason I don't do demanding. We had established that as a principle. If you demand something from me, it's always going to be a no. Here's a cool thing. If you ever listen to our discipline that works program, One of the cool things is the opposites rule. I learned this from. We had 1500 demanding attorney kids in our home over the course of a decade. And so I came up with this rule that was opposites. So when they were demanding. Opposites, opposites, because all kids, remember they have that opposites thing at school where they wear the opposite. They wear their clothes inside out, whatever, and they get it very quickly. So if you demand something from me, you get the exact opposite of what you wanted. So you want me to do this right now? That means every time you demand something of me, that means you lose it every time. You lose it for another day, another hour, another week, as many times you ask. Ask me 14 times. I'm fine. It's gonna be 14 hours or 14 days before you get that. So that's kind of a cool way to set things up in your home without a lot of words. So I didn't explain a lot. When he would demand something of me, I also didn't come back. You know what? You already have enough video games that you don't play. You have clothes you don't wear. I'm not going because they're never going to say, dad, mom, I hadn't realized that I had games that I don't play in too many clothes. But after you pointed that out to me, light bulb went off and I realized, you're right, it's not going to happen. So I said no. So Mrs. Calm told me yesterday, I wish I.
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So what would happen? It would get kind of ugly because you would, you'll walk away and your kids will follow you, won't they? So they're going to follow you and they're going to amp it up because they're persistent like that. So let's play this out. So I, I would go upstairs to my room, Casey would follow me and he keep going and keep going. And eventually I just say, hey Case, listen, I've seen this movie play out in our home like 36 times this month. Kind of being facetious, but also proving the point. Your kids do this a lot. So here's how it works every time. See the tone. Now watch the tone. Instead of I don't know why, you just can't take no for an answer. Why do you have to keep bugging me? I've told you a million times, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not all the words. I'm going into teaching mode. Hey, Case, I've seen this before. I've seen this movie play Out. Why? Why do I use that? Because a lot of your kids like movies. They don't hear anything you say. They can't remember what a teacher says, but they can memorize every line to their favorite movie. And this is developing. This is a little thick theme I liked. So, Case, I've seen this movie play out.
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Here's how it works.
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I come home from work and you're immediately there demanding that I do something. But you know that I am a man who does not do demanding. So I said no. So I walk away. You follow me. Why? Because you're persistent. You know what you want and you're assertive. And I like that about you. And you've got these great critical thinking skills. And so you come after me. So I go upstairs, I double lock my bedroom door. You go outside, you climb up through the second floor and you come in. Why? Because you're assertive and you're persistent. Great qualities. But here's what happens next. I say no again. And you keep going. And then you get upset. And then you make it personal and you start yelling at me and demanding more, and you call me names. And then how does this scene end? With you in tears? Because you not only don't get what you initially asked for, but you're going to lose your screens and the privileges you already have. And you're going to end up in tears and it's not going to work. And so what I want you to know is you have complete control to write a different ending to this movie. See, here's where we are right now. I just read Life to my child. I spoke truth. That's how it works. Instead of complaining, why do you always do this? I can't do this. Instead of creating all of your drama, you just spoke truth. I've seen this before. Here's how it always works. Because that's how it always ends. And I know you're not going to like it. Look, there's a part of me that is advocating for my son. I know what you want. You want that new video game. You want those clothes. You want that new hockey stick. I know that the way you're going about it will never work. Can you hear the tone there? It's resigned. There's no energy. It's just not going to work with me. That's how I handle tantrums. Tantrums are rational and manipulative. I won't give you anything. And so you're going to ramp it up until it makes me so uncomfortable, I give in. What I want you to know is I'm comfortable with being uncomfortable. I'm comfortable with you being upset at me. It doesn't move me. Your behavior does not change my behavior. Your mood does not determine my mood. You can throw meltdown in public. I mean, a tantrum, a tantrum is rational, meltdown is irrational. But you can throw a tantrum in public because, look, I'm not that worried about being embarrassed by your actions in public because those are your actions. What I'm worried about, what I get embarrassed by, is when I throw a tantrum in public. See, I'm reading this situation and I'm talking in a calm, even matter of fact language. It's a very businesslike language of like, here's what's about to happen and it's not going to end well for you, but. So here's where the energy goes. This is what I know about you. You're assertive. You know what you want. That's a great quality in life because you're never going to grow resentful like a lot of us, right? A lot of you. A lot of moms and dads and a lot of moms. You're resentful. After all I do for you, well, that's your own resentment, right? And so you don't speak up for yourself a lot and then you don't get what you want. So, son, I like that you're assertive. I like that you see patterns in life. That helps you with arguing. I like that you're persistent man, that make you a great salesperson and help you get what you want in life. A Harvard study showed the number one quality necessary for success in life is not good grades and good behavior. It's pigheaded determination and persistence. And you have it in this particular case. Here's what's going to happen though. It's not going to work and you're going to lose all your stuff. But here's what else I know you have a big heart, usually toward other people, right? You have a big heart and you love money. I. I am going to go downstairs now and start to make dinner if you want to come down after you think about this, take a couple minutes, think about, think about how you want to rewrite the ending to this story that's a lot better than you know what right now. Think about your attitude, young man, because they're just going to come back with what attitude? Or you know what, dad, you have attitude now. I don't have attitude. And then it just blows up. So instead of making them make a decision right now, I just put it in their court. I just gave them ownership. Listen to the programs. For that we teach you how to give ownership critical skill. That's in the stop hours with a strong will child program how to give them ownership of their choices within your boundaries. I'm going to go do X. I'm going to go get started on dinner. Gives you a little space. Why don't you think about how you want this movie to end? Because if you come downstairs in a little bit, I bet we could brainstorm three different ways for you to earn some money in this neighborhood by helping other people. And with that money, you could buy those new clothes, that new hockey stick, those new video games. See, I'm problem solving and that's a big part of what I want to do. Instead of like, well, I just need to discipline my child. No, I want to teach them how to pro. I want to problem solve with my child. I just taught him that. Talking to me like that and demand it just doesn't work. But instead of like, stop doing that or else you're going to lose things. I spent more of my energy went to, I can teach you how to do this differently. Come talk to me and I can start to use that relentless trait, that persistence to my and their advantage. So I'm trying to make this one short look who practice that this week, go through the program, start working it and working it. And if you have those questions, write them down. But here's my challenge for two weeks, you start digging in deeper and saying, okay, what does it say on these programs for how to handle that Or I haven't heard that. Let me listen to another one. And then your emails, you know what they will become. You know what? I was going to ask you about that, but I dug in, I took that principle, I applied it. Here's how I did it. And it changed the situation. Now if you have a situation and you're you just can't get to the bottom of it, then in a couple weeks when I give you the whole clear email us and I, we really appreciate that. So love you all. Thank you for sharing the podcast. We still have even though the wedding's next weekend, I've got a podcast planned. I'm going to record that ahead of time. So I'm not doing in the middle of the wedding, but and I'll probably, and I'll probably be posting a little bit on Instagram as well, some reminders and some tips because those are quick and easy for me to do. So thank you all. Look, thanks for being our fan. We consider you extended family. We all have these kids that are basically the same. That's why I'm on Instagram answering questions a lot. We have a Facebook page, too, but I'm getting kind of immediate feedback on Instagram. And I'm trying to really help people in the moment because this is hard work and you guys get judged by all the people that have, like compliant kids. And we just, we want to help you stop the power struggles and build a closer relationship even with this really challenging child or challenging kid. So love you all. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.