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Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch calendars by going to my myskylight.com parenting that's myskylight.com parenting for $30 off your 15 inch calendar, that's my s k-y l I g h t.com parenting so does your child need help with a particular subject in school? I encourage you to check out ixl.com Kirk do you have a child who is bored and wants to work ahead? IXL gives you that flexibility. IXL is an online learning program that can be used by any student From K to 12. What I personally like about IXL is that your child can explore any topic in any grade level and no matter your child's learning style or knowledge level. IXL has video tutorials and learning games to guide your child in the way they learn best while meeting them at their level. So whether your child needs extra help with a class or wants to work ahead, IXL provides the positive feedback our kids crave. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now. Calm Parenting podcast listeners get an exclusive 20% off an IXL membership when you sign up today at ixcel.com Kirk Visit ixcel.com Kirk to get the most effective learning program at the best price. For the first time in my adult life, I am sleeping in PJs. Why? Because I wanted to see if wearing Cozy Earth Bamboo pajamas to bed helped me sleep even better. Now I'm addicted. In fact, I'm wearing them right now. Cozy Earth sleeps cooler than cotton and keeps my temperature just right. No getting too hot, so I'm sleeping more soundly with no interruptions. And I'm falling asleep faster simply because I love being draped in Cozy Earth Bamboo. All their clothing is like wearing this comforting hug. Go to cozyearth.com and use code CALM to get 20% off. When you pair these cozy Earth PJs with their best selling bamboo sheets, it's like sleeping on a heavenly cloud. You want a special gift your loved ones and friends will rave about. Give Cozy Earth. So go to cozyearth.com, use code CALM to get 20% off. I will race you to cozyearth.com right now and I'll use Code Calm as well and get my 20% off. And please tell them that the calm guy sent you cozyearth.com code calm 20% off I remember it like it was yesterday. The kindergarten child crying on the steps of Cromwell Valley Elementary School, sobbing and wheezing for the first three days of that school year. Afraid to go into that class. I remember that second grader being sent to the office to see Principal Kratzner after the teacher said one more trip to the office and you'll be kicked out of school. More sobbing and wheezing. I remember that middle school boy in 8th grade missing over 30 days of school and making up stories to get out of class, faking like he didn't feel well, and not eating dinner to lay the groundwork for not going to school the next day. I mean, it wasn't unusual since his stomach was frequently upset and his nervous system was on high alert. So he was an extremely picky eater. I remember that boy in that ragged hoodie with the strained voice the next morning, claiming that his stomach was upset and he was registering the sympathetic eyes of his mother as he begged to stay home from school. I remember that boy feeling so awkward and out of place, but learning to become an expert chameleon to navigate the high school social scene. Never really rejected, but never really fitting in such great masking skills. I remember that same boy skipping his high school and college graduation ceremonies. Later, he would lie to his bosses at different jobs to get out of various demanding assignments, team building days with colleagues or flights on an airplane. Sometimes these were outrageous lies that made him feel ashamed for his dishonesty. But integrity was a distant second to a nervous system on high alert, facing panic attacks. So lie it was. That boy masked his way through two decades in the corporate world, eating a diet that soothed his perpetually upset stomach. That boy with PDA was me. And 30 years later, our son shared the same burnout experience in second and eighth grade just like I did. Only back then we didn't know what to call it. When I first heard the term pathological demand avoidance, I was unsurprisingly skeptical. You know we as PDA people seem to have an insatiable need to say no and reject what others want first before we can own it ourselves. I thought it sounded like another fanciful diagnosis, using big scary words to justify more labeling and pathologize what I consider fairly normal behavior. And for the past 10 years, I've researched it assiduously, only later coming to the conclusion after taking many assessments and talking to various psychiatrists. And that my life has been strewn with the fallout of pda, but also proven to be an advantage for me. And as it turns out, our son Casey also has most of the characteristics of pda, which manifested throughout his childhood and caused burnout. That was a wake up call for us. Somehow or another, we kind of backed our way into providing just the right balance of saying no to arbitrary demands and giving him tools that to help them lead a happy and successful life. So this is very personal to us. We're not outsiders. We've lived this. We had 1500 kids in our home over the course of a decade. And while all of them were strong willed in different ways and had a mix of add, adhd, odd, ocd, spd, SPD anxiety, and more, we usually worked with the most challenging cases. So I'd estimate at least half of the kids possessed the traits associated with with pda. So let's just establish a few things. First, kids with PDA are not rebellious, defiant, lazy, selfish kids who just need tough discipline or more consequences. They're not these brash kids spouting off, you know what I'm going to do whatever I want to do. You can't make me. Yeah, sometimes those words come out. They lash out when they get overwhelmed and anxious, but that's not what's driving them internally. And if you dig down deep, what you'll discover is that they are not actually demand avoidant. No, they don't avoid demands. They reject external demands that are largely arbitrary and unnecessary. And they often place tremendous demands on themselves internally. And that's why you'll see explosive reactions and perfectionism when their projects don't turn out perfectly. And I'm going to release an episode shortly that's called pda. Kids are not Demand Avoidant. It's going to be on the PDA Parent podcast, so subscribe to that. Look that up. It'll really help you out. These are kids with big hearts, very sensitive hearts. They're just very misunderstood. This is hard stuff. Moms and dads. No one prepared you to have a child with pda. It can be incredibly isolating when everyone including your own family is judging you, blaming you, and sometimes even rejecting your child. That happened to us. You can be heartbroken for and exhausted by your child with pda. So this is Kirk Martin, many of you know the host of the Calm Parenting Podcast and now the PDA Parent podcast as well. Now I'm dropping this episode into our regular Calm Parenting Podcast feed since there is overlap. But we already have additional episodes up on the PDA Parent Podcast platform. Hard to say. So go to celebratecolum.com Click on the PDA tab for more and you can subscribe so you don't miss any episodes. So I think you'll get some important lessons out of this story and how a mom applied this with her daughter with pda. So last summer, PDA son took his PDA dad on a father son hiking trip because he knows I won't always be able to keep up with him on these long, hard hikes. It was an incredibly sweet and thoughtful gesture, by the way. You're going to notice that with your kids as well. Like, they can say no a lot and they can be really challenging at times, but inside they're really thoughtful humans. So I have a lot of anxiety over trying new things and I especially have a fear of heights. And as I'm typing this, I can feel my hands getting a little sweaty. So look, there's that physiological and nervous system response in action while I'm safely in my home. Well, there's this hike that Casey said was spectacular, only there were places with steep drop offs and overhangs where if you fell you would either get seriously injured or die and you had to hang on to ropes and chains to navigate these scary parts. So I of course made the mistake the night before of watching videos of it, which further reinforced my fear. And so I began asking lots of questions and Casey could hear the anxiety in my voice. And it's so fascinating how roles have reversed some. At first, when he was a kid, we were unwittingly feeding his anxiety as a little kid and he missed out on things until we learned how to lead him through his anxiety and discomfort. Now at times he's the one leading me, so his response to me is always very concise. Dad, I've researched it extensively. I know you can do this. Just let me know what time you want to start. See, his confidence is reassuring, not dismissive. And he suddenly gave me a measure of control over the start time since I prefer starting earlier. Kind of cool how he did that and I noticed it at the time and I was Kind of impressed, like, well done, son. You've been listening all these years. So the next day, we began the hike. And I'm quiet. And whenever I'm about to fly or do a hard hike or face my anxiety, I get quiet. See, if that happens with your kids. What happens is we are internalizing this. We are working through it in our heads and hearts. We are wrestling inside and coming to terms with it. You don't have to break this silence, and it's better if you don't. That's why sometimes in the morning before school, it's better to just say nothing and let your child sit there with that hoodie over their head, but processing their conflicting emotions. Inside, they're doing the work. And as a little side note, they're actually doing very demanding work inside. And that's something we often miss when claiming their demand avoidant. So we get to the point much earlier than I expected when I started seeing chains attached to the rock face along my left with a drop off to the right. Now, here's the thing. At this point, the trail was stable with good footing. There were some bushes off to the right, so I actually didn't think chains were necessary right there. But the mere sight of the chains told me inside. Oh, this must be dangerous, because there are chains there, so you should be nervous. And it worked. But my palms got sweaty and my heart raced a bit unnecessarily. Look, if there had not been chains there, I would have been just fine. So about a quarter mile ahead, it got very narrow and rocky with uneven footing. For some reason, whether it was panic or smart intuition, probably both, I started moving very quickly. I was gripping that chain to my left and flying up the side of that mountain without any regard to Casey. And it was a little counterintuitive for me because usually when you're nervous, you go really slowly, and then you overthink, and that's not good, and you get kind of paralyzed by that. So I'm passing people, which is tricky because there's no room to pass. But I just moved on through. And about 20 minutes later, I realized I had left Casey in the dust, which is unusual. But here's why I wanted to do that part alone. And this is really important for you when with your PDA kits. Okay, Forgive me for one more geek out with hungry root. The Korean barbecue chicken and garlic beef we ate tonight is cooked sous vide style, so it's incredibly tender and moist, and it only takes a few minutes to heat up in a pan. Hungry Root gives you your evenings back so you have more stress free time with family. Hungryroot is a great way for your kids to learn how to cook because it's delivered with the right portions and they'll be excited to feel like grown ups. Let Hungryroot take care of the grocery shopping and meal ideas for you. They deliver high quality food tailor made to your family's diet preferences and tastes with great options for kids. You're gonna love Hungerroot as much as we do. Go to hungryroot.com calm use code calm and you get 40% off your first box. Plus get a free item in every box for life. That's hungryroot.com calm code calm to get 40% off your first box. Hungryroot.com calm code calm so are you like me and hold on to things way too long? Yeah I know I'm frugal but I also don't like to create waste. But our microwave and toaster are from like the breakfast club era. So I went to Wayfair.com and and I pitched an idea to Mrs. Calm. Could we get those retro nostalgia appliances? And Wayfair just delivered them and they've added some splash and color and freshness to our home to start 2026. We like Wayfair because they have a huge selection in various styles to fit any budget. Plus delivery is always fast and free. We can find anything and everything for our home at Wayfair from bed sofas, door hardware and kitchen faucets to decor rugs and outdoor furnit without having to waste gas and hours shopping at different stores. Get organized, refreshed and back on track this new year for way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F A I R.com Wayfair every style every home. You know how when you're running your kids around battling traffic it often leaves you feeling fatigued and dehydrated? You know what have fixed it for us? We began using Cure Hydration Electrolyte drink mix packets a couple years ago. Headaches went away, felt more energized. We got that energy boost in the afternoon without the crash. And so instead of stopping at a convenience store for an expensive drink loaded with sugar or caffeine, you can get an instantly delicious drink and feel good about it with Cure Hydration and Cure. Kids mixes come in flavors and and flavors my daughter in law likes and that your kids will love without the sugar or artificial ingredients so you can feel good physically and feel good as a parent. You can find Cure on Amazon or your local store, but Cure is offering our listeners 20% off your first order. @cure hydration.com just use promo code CALM. That's curehydration.com code CALM for 20% off your first order. The reason that I sped up and created space away from Casey is I didn't want to hear him being anxious about my anxiety, asking, you doing okay, dad? See, that makes it worse. I already know I am struggling. I don't want to know or hear that another person is also 100% focused on my anxiety. And that sweet voice that we use as parents is also like those early chains. It triggers something that says, oh, you should be anxious. And that makes it worse. No one likes to be watched when they're struggling. It's too much attention. It sometimes sounds like pity. And that's infuriating because now I would be internalizing and your child is internalizing. I already think I'm weak and not as good as others for. For being afraid when other people aren't. And now my mom and dad are just reinforcing even more how weak and scared I am. Does that make sense? So I got to a point where the trail was wide and safe, and I waited for Casey. Guess what? He had been more nervous than I was. Why? Because usually when we're doing difficult climbs, his energy is focused on helping me. And I had taught him from a young age that when you're anxious, focus on helping someone else. But this time he was simply focused on himself. So we talked about that idea of anxiety transference. And it happens all the time. That's why I hit so much on, like on us as parents. We as parents learning to control our own anxiety. So we still had some places to climb where we literally hung out over a drop off, all holding on two chains. But by this time, we were feeling more confident. And after we made it past that, the feeling of satisfaction in facing our anxiety and our fear was euphoric. And the views were stunning, otherworldly. You know what? We figured out we were capable. We did it. It wasn't nearly as scary as the videos in my imagination had made it out to be. That's a huge lesson in life for us and our kids. Our minds usually project things to be way worse than they actually are. So when we give our kids tools to overcome some of these challenges, we're building muscle memory and experiences that say, hey, remember when you were so anxious about doing X? But it wasn't as bad as you thought and you were so proud of yourself for doing it. Now here's the balance we intend to bring to our approach with PDA kids. We made it to this cool mountain hut. There was still another thousand feet of steep climbing ahead through loose rock to get to the official top of the mountain. But I was done mentally and emotionally by then. I had pushed and I had done more than I ever had. And so it was time to stop and honor to listen to my body and what it was saying and respect that. No need for more pushing. So I waited for Casey while he climbed to the peak and came back down. We had amazing lunch sitting in the sun, looking at this ancient glacier. It was one of the highlights of our not just of the trip, but of our life together. You know why? Because there's an intense bond that happens when we work together. Because there was this intense experience that ironically had built upon decades handling these situations from the time Casey was 3 until his present age of 33. And what I really intend to show you through our PDA program and podcast is how to lead your kids through their discomfort and anxiety, not push them. Lead them safely, compassionately through their discomfort so they can experience that same sense of accomplishment and pride and confidence knowing I'm capable of this. We also want to help you recognize when it's enough, when it's time to sit at the proverbial hut in the sun and recharge. So a mom emailed last night and said, I bought your PDA program downloads. I stayed up till 2am drinking in all these new ideas and felt like you were describing my daughter. The next day I had an opportunity to use what I've learned so far. Now here's the thing. Those opportunities are rarely far away for us as moms and dads with these kids. So she said our daughter was, as usual, resisting going to this after school equine camp. I know she gets a lot out of. I caught myself before using that really sweet tone she rolls her eyes at and thought, well, instead of accommodating her, how can I lead her? How can I give her tools? And she said that was a game changer because instead of feeling helpless and grasping at straws, I felt like I had some influence just by changing myself. This mom said, in a way, I felt like I was understanding my daughter on a deeper level because I was anxious and nervous trying something new as well. I was leading her as she stepped out of her comfort zone. We got there and instead of going in with her, I dropped her off because you said Our kids will often do more grown up things on their own without being watched. She seemed to like that now. I kept waiting in the car for her to run out crying, then yelling at me for making her come because that's been our experience. I tried to read my book, but I just kept repeating the same sentences over and over again. This is hard. And she said, I could feel my nervous system on high alert. And then it slowly dawned on me that she had done it and I had done it. And an hour later she came walking to the car as if it had been a breeze. I wanted so badly to praise her and ask her how it was, but I didn't put that pressure on her. Inside, I was smiling. And after a while she finally said, that was really fun. I know we may have the same battle a week from now, but that was worth it. On the way home, I made an uncharacteristic stop on a school night at Steak n Shake. And we got fries and a milkshake because I thought this was worthy of a small celebration. All I said was we both had done something hard tonight and I was proud of us. And it felt like those bonding moments that you'd had with your son. Now I have hope and some tools to help us both. And then she ended it with like, now, on to the next battle. Because that's how it is oftentimes. You know, mom, that wrote that and Dad's out there. I'm so proud of you because this is really hard. But that is how you lead your child through discomfort. And now you both have that sense of accomplishment and pride and confidence knowing I'm capable of this. That's why we named that new program Confident Parents, Confident Kids. I encourage you. Check it out. It's@celebratecalm.com on the PDA tab. Look, thanks for working so hard at this. Moms and dads. Let's work on making some of these small shifts this week. And I bet you'll see better results with your PDA kids and with all of your kids, because this is just human nature. All right, love you all. Bye Bye.