Camp Gagnon: "Adam’s First Wife Was NOT Eve"

Host: Mark Gagnon
Date: January 4, 2026
Guest: Christos (co-host/friend)

Episode Overview

In this lively and irreverent episode, Mark Gagnon dives headfirst into the enigmatic legend of Lilith—often called Adam’s "first wife"—exploring her roots from ancient Mesopotamian demonology to her transformation into a figure of medieval Jewish satire, and ultimately, a modern pop culture icon.
Mark traces the historical evolution of Lilith, lays out the contexts—ancient, rabbinical, and mystical—filling in where she does and doesn’t appear in sacred texts, and unpacks how she morphs from a genre of female demons into a unique, even feminist, figure. The tone is humorous, inquisitive, and pointedly not precious about sacred cows.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Talk About Lilith?

• Mark introduces the episode as a deep-dive into Jewish folklore, specifically the “she-demon” Lilith, and explains his motivation to understand diverse religious beliefs to “be less stupid.”
• He admits his own outsider perspective—"I also didn’t grow up with, you know, a Jewish folklore background, so it’s possible I get some things wrong…”—and invites expert correction.
• [03:20] “I want to know what everyone believes. Truly, I don’t think you can understand a people without understanding the God they worship. And this is my attempt…” (Mark, 03:20)

2. Roots in Ancient Mesopotamia: Wind, Spirits, and Demons

• Begins with the discovery of incantation bowls—buried, inscribed artifacts designed to trap demons, especially female ones ([05:15]).
• The term Lilith derives from Sumerian “lil” (wind/spirit), evolving into Akkadian lilu and lilitu: broad classes of predatory spirits, not unique individuals at first.
• [07:32] "So the Lilith story begins not with a single demon, but with an entire category of spirits from roughly 4,000 years ago." (Mark, 07:32)
• These spirits were invoked to explain sudden illness, sexual disturbances, and—pivotally—dangers to pregnant women and infants.
• Ancient priests even tried “symbolic weddings” between male and female demon figurines to neutralize them.

3. Lamashtu: The Proto-Lilith

• Lamashtu, a fearsome Mesopotamian goddess-demon, is described as the daughter of the god Anu and the child-killer par excellence.
• She is depicted as a grotesque lion-bird hybrid, wielding talons and snakes.
• [13:22] “She is fierce, fearsome, divine. The daughter of Anu, she is a she-wolf. She intercepts the running youth. She utterly smashes the tiny ones. Not the best PR.” (Mark, 13:22)

4. Cultural Diffusion: How Mesopotamian Demonology Enters Judaism

• Through exile and migration, Mesopotamian ideas intermingle with Jewish thought, exemplified by Abraham’s roots in Ur and the Babylonian exile.
• The result: Hebrew texts absorb motifs of female demons attacking mothers and children, eventually coalescing around the figure of Lilith.

5. Lilith in the Bible: The One-Off, Ambiguous Verse

• Lilith is mentioned only once in the Hebrew Bible: Isaiah 34:14, which depicts a wasteland where “wild cats shall meet with hyenas… there also Lilith shall repose…” but with no explanation ([19:48]).
• Multiple translations vary: some render Lilith as “screech owl” (KJV), others as “Lamia” (Latin Vulgate), pointing to confusion over the term.
  • [20:15] “The text doesn’t really explain who Lilith is. Other translations will change out that Lilith term and say, you know, demons or things of that nature.” (Mark, 20:15)

6. The Demon in Second Temple and Rabbinic Judaism

• In the Dead Sea Scrolls and Babylonian Talmud, Lilith is part of a catalog of evil spirits—sometimes plural (“liliot”)—threatening solitary men and children.
• Protective amulets and “symbolic divorce” documents are found in incantation bowls, revealing persistent fear.
• [26:02] “Many bowls take on a form of symbolic divorce… The divorce document uses Jewish legal formulas to sever these spiritual bonds between demons and victims.” (Mark, 26:02)

7. Lilith as Adam’s First Wife: Medieval Satire Emerges

• The first story of Lilith as Adam’s wife appears not in scripture but in the Alphabet of Ben Sira ([30:22]), a satirical, bawdy medieval text (8th–10th c. CE):
  • Lilith is created from dust (like Adam), asserting equality and refusing sexual subordination.
  • She utters the Tetragrammaton (the forbidden name of God) and flees Eden, gaining demonic powers.
  • Three angels try to bargain with her; the resulting myth explains infant mortality and SIDS via her vengeance.
• [32:21] “She refuses to lie beneath Adam during intercourse, arguing that since they are both made from earth, they should be equal partners. Now this is hilarious.” (Mark, 32:21)
• [33:55] “So as a result, she transformed, she grows wings, and she flies to the Red Sea… her response is, ‘Leave me. I was created only to cause sickness to infants. Crazy, right?’” (Mark, 33:55)

8. Reconciling Genesis and the Pop-Theology of Lilith

• The two creation accounts in Genesis (Gen 1 and Gen 2) led some medieval commentators to posit Lilith as the “first” woman as a way to harmonize discrepancies ([36:44]).
  • Gen 1: simultaneous creation of male and female → Lilith.
  • Gen 2: Eve from Adam’s rib, second attempt after Lilith’s “failure.”

9. Kabbalistic Myth: Queen of Demons

• In medieval Kabbalah, Lilith is paired with Samael, becoming Satan’s queen and an almost cosmic symbol of “evil femininity.”
• [40:12] “Adam and Eve represented the divine plan ... and Lilith and Samael represented the demonic inversion ... they rule over sitra achra... this shadowy realm filled with demons or something. It's almost like Hades.” (Mark, 40:12)

10. Christianity, Islam, and Modernity: What Does (and Doesn’t) Carry Over

• Lilith is nearly absent from Christian and Islamic scripture or doctrine—she’s inherited only as myth or later occult inspiration.
• [44:30] “Why is this? The story of Lilith as Adam’s wife doesn’t appear in Genesis, but again in these later Jewish elaborations developed after Christianity is already established in its own sort of scriptural interpretation.” (Mark, 44:30)
• In Islam, Adam’s wife is Hawa (Eve) with no mention of a prior companion.

11. Lilith in Pop Culture and Satire

• Mark highlights Lilith’s modern renaissance as pop-culture icon—featured in TV, comics, and games as a dark, powerful female archetype.
• He returns repeatedly to the satirical, tongue-in-cheek origins from Ben Sira, comparing it to “religious fanfiction.”
• [52:45] “It’s literally using crude language, I think, to entertain the people and in order to make this kind of, like, you know, religious folklore... it seems almost like fan fiction, I think.” (Mark, 52:45)
• Memorable, silly moments are discussed: Lilith “not a pillow princess,” Biblical narratives of Adam’s “horniness” necessitating Eve’s creation, etc.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:20] “I want to know what everyone believes. Truly, I don’t think you can understand a people without understanding the God they worship. And this is my attempt…” (Mark)
• [13:22] “She is fierce, fearsome, divine. The daughter of Anu, she is a she-wolf. She intercepts the running youth. She utterly smashes the tiny ones. Not the best PR.” (Mark, quoting Assyrian incantation)
• [32:21] “She refuses to lie beneath Adam during intercourse, arguing that since they are both made from earth, they should be equal partners. Now this is hilarious.” (Mark, on Ben Sira)
• [33:55] “‘Leave me. I was created only to cause sickness to infants.’ Crazy, right?” (Mark, paraphrasing Lilith)
• [37:13] “People would interpret this as like, oh, they're on the same level. But then a little later it says God forms man from dust and then later creates woman from Adam's rib. So that's how they squared this.” (Mark)
• [52:45] “It's literally using crude language, I think, to entertain the people and in order to make this kind of, like, you know, religious folklore... it seems almost like fan fiction, I think.” (Mark)
• [55:44] “If you ever see a crazy fierce character named Lilith, you know where it comes from. And apparently more people are naming their kids Lilith. If you're a Lilith watching this, congrats. You're just... You're one of the goats. The throat goats.” (Mark)
• [56:18] “That is the origins of Lilith. That is where she comes from, and that is why she exists in movies you might have watched.” (Mark)

Key Timestamps

• 00:00-03:10 — Introduction, show format, Mark’s purpose
• 05:15-09:00 — Mesopotamian incantation bowls and demonology
• 13:22 — Lamashtu, the baby-killing she-demon
• 19:48-20:40 — Lilith’s single Bible reference in Isaiah 34:14 and translation debates
• 24:12-28:30 — Incantation bowls in Jewish Babylonian folklore, legalistic exorcism forms
• 30:22-37:13 — Medieval “Alphabet of Ben Sira” and Lilith as Adam’s first wife
• 40:12-43:10 — Kabbalistic cosmology, Lilith/Samael, “the other side”
• 44:30-46:10 — Christianity and Islam’s (non-)adoption of Lilith stories
• 49:00-55:00 — Pop culture, satire, Lilith’s modern resurgence

Tone and Takeaways

Mark’s tone is equal parts scholarly, skeptical, and comedic, frequently reminding the audience that much of Lilith’s legend is satirical or folkloric fanfic, not doctrinal.
The core message is that Lilith’s story is a rich tapestry of mythmaking—rooted in ancient anxieties, colored by rabbinic imagination, and finally co-opted by pop culture, but it tells us as much about the fears, gender politics, and sense of humor of the societies that told these stories as it does about “scripture.”

End Note:
If you want the real story behind Lilith—why she appears in devilish intrigue or dark fantasy games, why she’s become a symbol for fierce female independence, and where the “first wife of Adam” trope actually originates—this episode of Religion Camp has you covered with facts, laughs, and a healthy dose of satire.