Camp Gagnon Podcast | Episode: "Albert Fish, How a Cannibal Horrified America"

Host: Mark Gagnon
Guest: Christos
Release Date: October 2, 2025

Overview

This episode delves deep into one of the most disturbing figures in American criminal history: Albert Fish, also known as the "Brooklyn Vampire," "The Moon Maniac," and "The Boogeyman." Host Mark Gagnon walks listeners through Fish's horrifying life—from his traumatic childhood, escalation into sadomasochism, cannibalism, and his ultimate capture and execution. Rather than focusing on graphic details, the episode aims to unpack the psychological and historical circumstances that created such a monstrous figure.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Boogeyman” Was Real (00:00–02:00)

• Mark introduces Albert Fish not as a myth, but as a real monster who terrorized America for decades, abducting and cannibalizing children.
• He positions the episode as a break from present-day news, instead exploring historical darkness:

  "That's when you know that the world is messed up and you're like, oh man, I just need to listen to a serial killer and take my mind off things, you know?" (02:45–03:00)

2. Origins: Childhood Trauma and Family Madness (06:30–11:00)

• Fish born to a mother likely suffering from schizophrenia and a family riddled with mental illness (07:00).
• After his father died, Fish was placed in St. John’s Orphanage, where he endured, and came to enjoy, physical abuse.

  "He began to trigger this bizarre psychological response that he found the punishment almost pleasurable." (09:20)

• Early sadism developed as Fish associated pain with pleasure, a fundamental element of his later crimes.
• Mark speculates childhood neglect and abuse triggered a coping mechanism where negative attention became pleasure (10:10–10:50).

3. Into Adulthood: Prostitution and Perversion (11:30–14:00)

• Fish moved to New York at 20, where he worked as a prostitute and gradually shifted his focus from consensual sex to targeting vulnerable young boys.
• His approach was methodical—he'd plan, stalk, and exploit, often targeting the vulnerable in society.

4. Family Life and Unusual “Games” (14:30–18:00)

• Despite being a father to six children, Fish's depravity deepened. Notably, he never physically abused his own children, preferring strange games (e.g., having children strike him as part of a guessing game).
• Mark notes:

  "He engaged in these games ... to kind of, like, satiate his needs while also appearing to be, like, harmless activities." (16:10)

• Fish regularly served raw meat to his family, claiming it was healthier.

5. Obsessions Escalate: Sadomasochism and Self-Mutilation (21:15–28:00)

• Exposure to penile subincision in a wax museum became a point of obsession.
• Fish later sadistically mutilated Thomas Kedden, leaving him alive but severely injured; Kedden disappeared from the historical record (23:50–25:30).
• When Fish’s wife left him in 1917, he suffered a psychotic break, experiencing religious delusions and demanding self-torment (25:50).
  • Inserted needles into his body, set himself on fire with saturated cotton, and created "implements of hell" for self-torture.
  • X-rays later revealed 27 needles embedded inside Fish (1:13:50).

6. Crimes Escalate: From Assault to Cannibalism (28:00–38:00)

• Estimated 100 to as many as 400 victims, according to Fish's own claims (28:20).
• Notable victims:
  • Francis McDonald (1924): 9-year-old boy, murdered after his mother unknowingly described Fish to the police (07:30, 29:10).
  • Billy Gaffney (1927): Another young boy, abduction only solved after Fish’s confession; Fish admitted to killing and cannibalizing Billy (32:14–34:00).
  • Grace Budd (1928): Fish used subterfuge to convince the family, then abducted and murdered Grace, which ultimately led to his arrest (35:50–40:00).

7. The Letter and the Manhunt (42:00–52:30)

• Six years after Grace Budd's disappearance, her family received a letter from Fish, describing the crime in explicit detail and referencing acts of cannibalism (45:00–47:40).
  • Quote from letter:

    "My dear Miss Bud. ...The suffering was so great among the very poor that all children under 12 were sold to be cut up and sold for food..." (46:10)

• Investigators were initially sceptical, but details in the letter matched elements never released publicly.
• A detail on the envelope led police to Fish through a private chauffeur association (48:10–51:10).

8. Arrest, Confession, and Trial (52:30–1:06:00)

• Fish did not resist arrest and confessed freely, even seeming relieved (53:10).
• Fish was disturbingly forthcoming about his crimes, shocking even veteran detectives.
• At trial (March 11, 1935), his insanity defense was rebutted by evidence he could plan and conceal crimes (1:02:30).
  • Jury found him sane and guilty; sentenced to death (1:05:10).

9. Execution and Legacy (1:07:00–1:14:00)

• Fish displayed excitement at his execution, reportedly stating:

  "What a thrill it will be if I have to die in the electric chair. It will be a supreme thrill. The only one I haven't tried." (1:08:40)

• Rumors of his execution involving electrical malfunctions due to needles in his body are dismissed as urban legend (1:10:50).
• To this day, the full extent of Fish’s crimes remains unknown—many victims were likely categorized as runaways or missing persons.

10. Psychological & Societal Analysis (1:14:00–end)

• Mark explores the roots of Fish's depravity—a toxic combination of hereditary mental illness and institutional abuse.
• Legal and ethical questions: Would Fish have been committed rather than executed if judged today? (1:14:50).
• The legacy of his crimes:

  "Although he's gone, the nightmare that he released onto the American public will probably never go away." (1:16:30)

• Sympathy for Fish’s children, who testified for his insanity and lived quietly in his aftermath, is discussed with Christos (1:17:10–1:19:00).
• Modern reflections on child safety, online dangers, and the mythos of the “boogeyman” as rooted in Fish’s legacy.
• Mark notes the irony that stories like Fish’s keep kids inside, but now the dangers are online (1:21:10).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the horror of the story:

  "I just need to listen to a serial killer and take my mind off things, you know?" (03:00)

• Fish’s own words:

  "That place ruined my mind." (Albert Fish on St. John’s Orphanage, 10:40)

• On pain and childhood trauma:

  "My suspicion is that you’re getting such little attention and affection that basically your mind as a coping mechanism will take this attention you’re getting, which is negative and punishment, and you flip it into being something positive and pleasureful just as a way to cope." (Mark, 10:20)

• Fish’s excitement about execution:

  "What a thrill it will be if I have to die in the electric chair. It will be a supreme thrill. The only one I haven’t tried." (Fish, ~1:08:40)

• Reflecting on the impact of being a parent:

  "Being a dad really makes you soft. ... Before I had a kid, I’d read this and be like, is crazy. Anyway, who wants lunch? ... I can’t get through this stuff anymore." (Mark, 1:16:40)

Key Timestamps

• 00:00–02:30: Introduction to the story and its real-life horror
• 07:00–11:00: Fish's childhood trauma, family insanity, and orphanage abuse
• 16:00–18:00: Fish's relationship with his children and disturbing family games
• 21:30–25:00: Fish’s sadomasochistic obsessions, first mutilation crime
• 32:00–34:00: Billy Gaffney’s abduction and Fish’s confession
• 35:50–40:00: The abduction of Grace Budd
• 45:00–48:00: The letter to the Budd family and its investigation
• 52:30–54:00: Fish’s arrest and instant confession
• 1:02:00–1:05:30: The insanity plea, trial, and verdict
• 1:08:40: Fish expresses excitement about his impending execution
• 1:17:10–1:19:00: Discussion on Fish’s children and lasting stigma
• 1:21:10–end: Modern reflections on child safety, crime, and the case’s legacy

Tone & Style

Mark Gagnon maintains a conversational, darkly humorous, but respectful tone when confronting horrific subject matter. He focuses on psychological analysis rather than unnecessary gore, frequently reflecting on the impact of parenthood on his views and urging listeners to remain vigilant about the signs of trauma and predatory behavior.

Conclusion

This deeply unsettling episode takes listeners through the life, crimes, and capture of Albert Fish—not just as a historical case study in evil, but as a meditation on trauma, psychology, and the roots of monstrosity. Mark and Christos emphasize empathy for victims and their families, and consider the broader societal lessons from Fish’s wretched legacy.

Next episode preview: Mark promises a lighter topic in response to the grimness of this tale.