Loading summary
Transcript1 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. The Bible speaks of literal giants, and today we're diving into one of history's most legendary showdowns. David versus Goliath. But this isn't just another retelling of a Sunday school story. This is the search for evidence. Archaeologists have uncovered seven remarkable clues that may illuminate the world beyond this ancient tale. From the colossal ruins of Goth, Goliath's own city, to inscriptions bearing the name of Goliath. We'll look at weapons so large that they defy logic. Skeletal remains with six fingers and toes as described in the Bible. And the mysterious lineage of giants, the Nephilim, Anakin, and Rafa, that haunted biblical history. This isn't just about proving or disproving scripture. It's about uncovering the real worlds behind the story, the culture, the conflicts, and the people who lived it. Were there giants in the Bible? Did giants truly walk on Earth? Or is this a metaphor used by the early writers of to describe these massive people? Well, there are arguments on both sides, and today we're going to be getting into all of it. Whether you are a believer, a skeptic, or just curious. Sit back, relax, and welcome to Religion Camp. What's up, people? And welcome back to Religion Camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent, where every single week, we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from every religion from around the world, from all times forever. Yes. And as always, I'm joined by my dear friend Christos. What's up, dude? Doing good, Mark. Nice to hear from you. Thanks. We had a wonderful weekend. Sure did. We sure did. We had a great time. Everything is great. And there's no problems at all with any. Anyone's personal life? Nope, not at all. That's. Everything's all gravy over here, dude. Come on. Now. That's ominous. Seeing people in the comments get on board with our inside joke and telling you to shut up. Makes me laugh every time, truly. I mean, I'll, like, get a comment, I'll look at it on my phone, and it'll be like, never listen to this podcast again. And I'm like, oh, damn, what did we do? And then I'll check the bottom part, and it's like, if Chriso says another word, I'm like, yes, dude. Oh, the audience is funny. That makes me happy. Anyway, guys, we got a wonderful episode for you today, all right? We're talking about giants in the Bible. Yes. Not only the Bible, I guess you could say, you know, this is, you know, probably the Quran to an Extent. I don't exactly know. Maybe the Torah, in a way, like this is just all the Abrahamic faiths. They have sort of like tacit kind of, you know, references to giant human beings. Now, there's some people watching this that are like, giants existed. They're 100% existing. Maybe they exist today. Maybe they're at the center of the earth. I'm not one of those people. For the record, I don't really think that giants fully existed. Like, giant people. Sure. Like, if I was standing next to Shaquille o' Neal or Yao Ming, I'd be like, yeah, that guy's a giant. But in terms of literal giants, like a different, like, not Homo sapiens giants. I don't know if I'm on board with it, but maybe by the time we get to the end of this episode, I will have been convinced myself, and maybe you, the viewer, will be as well. I mean, the most famous giant in the Bible, Goliath, you probably heard of him, right? This name, you know, Goliath has become synonymous with something enormous. We just use it in, you know, common parlance. This is, you know, this is the most famous giant person in the Bible. So if you don't know the story of David and Goliath, we gotta go to First Samuel, chapter 17. You got this little shepherd boy named David, and he defeated this giant Philistine warrior using nothing more than like, a little stone launched from, like a sling, like a slingshot. And then he finished him off with the giant's own sword. Now, the biblical text describes Goliath as standing six cubits and a Spanish, approximately 9ft, 9 inches tall, according to the traditional Hebrew Masoretic text. Although some ancient Greek manuscripts give his height as 6ft, 9 inches. I mean, not nearly as impressive. You know what I mean? He's a little bit taller than Melo. I'm just saying it's not as. Not as impressive. But regardless, he was presented as this imposing figure. But Goliath isn't the Bible's first giant. So as to understand Goliath in the context in the scripture, we need to go back way further, to the world before Noah's flood, where the Bible first introduces the Nephilim. Now, According to Genesis 6, 4, the Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward, when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old men of renown. This is a cryptic passage that has been debated literally since forever. The Hebrew word Nephilim likely derives from the root Nephal, meaning to fall, suggesting that these creatures were either like fallen ones or those who caused others to fall. And in the Book of Numbers it makes this explicit connection between the Nephilim and later giants. When the Israelite spies returned from scouting the promised land, they reported in numbers 1333, we saw the Nephilim there. The descendants of Anak comes from the Nephilim. We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them again. This passage directly links the Anakim, which was like a giant clan of like Canaanites, to these ancient Nephilim. Now the Bible traces a lineage of giant people. The Nephilim before the flood, then afterwards the Anakim, and then the Rephaim and then the Emim, and then the Zam Zumim. Now there's a bunch of different people basically all just kind of describing giants. Deuteronomy 2, 10, 11 explains the emites used to live here. And this was a people, strong and numerous, as tall as the Anakites. Like the Anakites, they too were considered Raphites, but the Moabites called them the Emites. Sounds like an Eminem lyric, does it not? We got the Raphites, Moabites, Amites, Anakites going long because you know that I'm on a bike. It's like, it's a whole. It's like insane. And so these aren't just like isolated individuals, but these are like entire clans that are known for their size. Now According to Deuteronomy 3, verse 11, King Og of Bashan was the last of the Raphites. His iron bed, they say, was nine cubits long and four cubits wide. This is approximately 13ft long. Now was this an actual bed? Was it a sarcophagus or like a, you know, like a casket or something? Was it just a big. Did Homie just have a California king? You know what I mean? Like, my bed is like probably 8ft long. I'm not an 8 foot person, but maybe a 13 foot bed. You probably got to be at least 10ft, who knows? But in the Bible, it does talk about this giant bed. Now Joshua 11, 21 and 22 basically says that Joshua went and destroyed the Anakites from the hill country. However, some Anakites were left in Gaza, Goth and Ashdod. Now this is crucial. The Bible explicitly states that remnants of these giant clans survived in these sort of Philistine cities, you know, including Goth, which was Goliath's hometown. So there's a lot of stuff happening here. But basically, all throughout the Bible, you have these references to these giant people. I mean, the Nephilim are probably the most significant. I don't really know what, like, I don't know what the teaching in the Bible should be on this. Like, if you believe the Bible, if you are a Christian, do you just have to be like, yeah, giants existed. Like, is that just, like, a part of it? You got to be like, yeah, there was like a half human, half, like, angel demon hybrid on earth that was giant. Like, I guess that's just, like, in it. If you don't believe that, are you, like, not a Christian? I don't know. All I can say is it seems that you would find some bones maybe or something. I don't. And technically people will say that we have. We'll get to that in a second. But all that to say, this is where the idea comes from. A Book of Enoch talks a lot about this as well. Like, the Anunnaki coming down, mixing with the humans, which I always say, just, I love how hot women on Earth are. That even angels are coming to Earth being like, well, yeah, we're gonna tag these girls up 100. We're having babies with this fine. Right? Like, are you. Are you out of your mind? Have you seen that guy that goes around going. Going out to girls, like, salutations, fine shits. Have you seen that guy with the wheelies? No. He's got, like, a skateboard. He does tricks on it. It's very funny. But it's just funny to think that the Anunnaki pulled up. They're like, salutations, fine shits. Let's make, like, demonic kids that are gonna get wiped out by the flood. It's just crazy. So anyway, back to David. He would eventually become Israel's most celebrated king. King David, and according to the Gospel of Matthew, one of Jesus Christ's actual ancestors, in a way. But is this historical fact? Is it legend? The narrative has become so deeply embedded in culture that many people automatically dismiss it as folklore. But is it possible that archaeology can actually prove some of these stories true? Let's get into it. Over the past several decades, excavations in Israel have unearthed a lot of findings. These discoveries don't prove every detail of the biblical account, obviously, but they do provide some context and kind of like a historical backdrop and material evidence that kind of helps us understand the world in which this story is set. So basically, we're just going to explore whether these findings might shed light on the biblical tradition of these giants that Extends from the Nephilim to Goliath himself. All right, fellas, sorry to interrupt this wonderful program, but it is that time of the year. The air is cooler, days are a little shorter, the leaves are fallen. And maybe you're feeling a little reflective, maybe thinking about life. So let's reflect on something. How's the old P word treatment? You know, you know, talking about. Talking about the porn word. You've heard me talk about it. Porn messes with your brain, your relationships, maybe even your soul, if you believe in all that. And with no nut. November finally here. There's no better time to just hit pause and see what life would be like without just, you know, gooning all the time. But here's the thing. Quitting anything is pretty difficult. You know, it's quitting something hard. This hard. As hard as this is extremely hard. It is very difficult. And that's where the November project comes in. It's a 30 day global movement to stay porn free for the month of November. 30 days, that's. That's nothing. You got that right. The goal, basically, 1 million people taking it, you know, together to just retain just their precious life fluid all. All up in their body. So once you sign up, you'll get daily texts or emails with quick reflections, some tools, and maybe challenges to even help you with through the month. You'll basically be a part of a movement, something bigger than yourself, right? Thousands of people, all working towards the same goal. Focused, you know, focused on freedom, focused on controlling your life. And I'll be honest, me and all the people here in this wonderful studio have already, you know, signed our pledge. Chris says you're off, right? That's right. Starting early, I can tell. I mean, you're glowing. You're just. You have a. You have a vitality to you I've never seen before. So come on through. Not literally, but more don't come. You get what I'm saying? So let's see what we're capable of when we put the phone down and we show up for ourselves and just tap in with the boys. Let's take control just for November. How hard could it be? Let's get back to the show. So one of the pieces of evidence that a lot of the we'll say giant believers point to is these giant gates at Gath. Now, according to 1st Samuel 17:4, Goliath's hometown was this philistine city called Gath, and it's pronounced Gat in Hebrew. But this wasn't some obscure village, right? Scripture refers to goth 33 separate times, indicating, you know, some type of significance. So it's one of the five major Philistine cities known collectively as the Philistine Pentopolis. The others were Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and first mentioned together in Joshua chapter 13. According to Joshua chapter 11, Goth, along with Gaza and Ashdod, served as a refuge for people known as the Anakim. And this was a group that the Bible described as Gian giants Now, as well as other Canaanites who survived the Israelite conquest. This detail is super specific and connects directly to the other biblical narrative about these giants. Right. The Anakim were considered the descendants of the Nephilim. According to Numbers 13:33, they were so feared that their presence in the promised land caused 10 of the 12 Israelite spies to give a negative report, leading to nearly 40 years of wilderness wandering. So literally, these spies go and they look at, you know, this land and think, you know, is it possible to get in there? And they're like, wow, these people are so formidable that it's not worth it. So 10 of the 12 spies were like, no, thank you. So the fact that Joshua drove them out of most of Canaan, but they found refuge specifically in these cities, like Goth, creates a direct biblical connection between the ancient giant clans and Goliath. So 1st Samuel 17:23 calls Goliath the Philistine champion from Goth. But 2 Samuel provides more significant information. These four were descendants of Rapha in Gath. They fell at the hands of David and his men. Rapha is another name associated with Rephaim, the ancient giant clan. The biblical text explicitly identifies Goliath and his brothers as descendants of these giant people. So now who were the Philistines? Archaeological evidence basically suggests that they were like a sea people. They were maritime imm immigrants who arrived in the eastern Mediterranean around 1200 BC during the collapse of, like, the late Bronze Age. Egyptian records from Pharaoh Ramses III actually describes naval battles against likely these sea people. And after the defeat by Egypt, many settled along the coastal plains, which is now basically, you know, Israel, Gaza, et cetera. Now, Philistines brought distinctive pottery styles, architectural techniques, a bunch of, like, interesting burial practices connecting them to the Greek world. Again, the Philistines were seen as very technologically advanced and very formidable warriors. So the blending of Philistine sea people culture with remnants of this Canaanite population that was in the region, including the Anakim who took refuge in these cities, kind of is, you know, I guess the explanation for this tradition of these Philistine giants is that you basically have the sea people plus the Anakim that are already there, that form one society. Now, the Philistines absorbed or intermarried with these giant clans, creating this warrior culture that combined advanced military technology with legendary size and strength of the Anakim. So when we talk about Goth, we're actually discussing one of the most important cities of, you know, of this time with a very strong militaristic culture, and according to scripture, a city that specifically harbored and survived these biblical giants. Now, there have been some architectural discoveries in the region that have, you know, led some people to believe that there was this existence of this giant, you know, culture. One of the scholars that comments on this is a professor in early Christian history, name is Aaron Mayer. And he says basically that they discovered archaeological remains show that the buildings in this region and the fortifications were extremely large, built with extremely large stones and of much larger dimensions than almost anything found in the Levant during this area. In later layers at the site the ancient architects use half meter long, that's one and a half foot stones. But in what we're calling the Goliath layer, the blocks measure between 1 and 2 meters, roughly 3.2 to 6 and a half feet. So think about that. These are building stones weighing hundreds of pounds, some over thousands of pounds, and they're moving them, cutting them, fitting them into walls that require enormous labor, you know, sophisticated engineering, substantial resources. Now, it's tempting to look at these massive stones, to think like, oh, giant stones, therefore giants built. We should make it clear that professor Mayer rejects this interpretation. He points out that all philistine skeletal remains discovered so far show no evidence that the Philistines were physically larger than the average person. In his view, the oversized architecture may have been inspired by later legends about giants, rather than being built by actual giants. So he actually states whether the various biblical traditions referring to the giants of Goth Goliath is only one example, may stem from the size of the Philistines monumental buildings. Now, this is an important scholarly perspective, right? You have these massive architectural feats that, you know, create some type of cultural memory, the sense of awe that over time becomes associated with these stories of these, you know, giant individuals. However, the absence of evidence isn't, you know, evidence of absence, as people say, you know, we haven't found skeletal remains proving these unusually tall individuals existed, but we also haven't excavated everything. So, you know, ancient cities were large, complicated places, and what survives archaeologically is usually only a tiny little fraction of what once existed. Furthermore, the biblical text doesn't claim all Philistines were giants only that specific families were the actual descendants of Rapha in Gath, basically the ones that possessed these. This massive size. And finding these skeletal remains of specific families from 3,000 years ago is pretty unlikely, if they even existed at all. It's also worth noting that the Bible's own narrative distinguishes between the ordinary Philistines and these giant champions. When Goliath challenges Israel, he's presented as exceptional, even amongst the Philistines, you know, their champion, not their average soldier. So the biblical account in 2nd Samuel 21 names only four giants from Gath who were killed by David and his men, suggesting that these were rare individuals and not just a common, you know, cultural trait. What we can say with confidence, though, is that 11th century Goth was a formidable city with impressive defense architecture. And, you know, the biblical narrative surrounding Goliath comes from a city of significance and power that aligns with the archeology that reveals a lot about how people viewed the city and its people. Now, another piece of archeological evidence that's very interesting in the search for giants comes from a piece of pottery with a name that's inscribed in it. So in 2005, Professor Mayor and his team made what would become one of the most publicized discoveries of biblical archaeology in recent years. During excavation work at Tel As Safi, they uncovered a broken piece of pottery, what archaeologists call an ostracon, with text that is scratched into the surface. Finding pottery with writing isn't uncommon at ancient science. As a matter of fact, it's one of the most common things that you typically find. You know, people in the ancient world would often use, like, broken pottery as a writing surface, right? It's free, readily available, it's durable. So you might find a broken pot on the side of the road. Be like, here's my, you know, order I need from the market. Give it to one of your servants. And they would take it. You know, they would. It was basically like scratch paper. You could imagine. And this is what they would call ostracon. Now, this one was special. The team dated it to approximately, you know, like the 10th to early 9th century BC. And, you know, this is based on the archaeological layer plus the pottery style. Now, the text that was written on it appears to be early Philistine script using Semitic letters, which was an interesting hybrid that reflects, again, the Philistines like Aegean origins, but also their adaptation to the Semitic world. We talked a little bit about, you know, these sea people that, you know, basically intermingle with the Canaanites that are living in the region. Now, on the surface of this broken piece of pottery, there are two names, ALWT and wlt. Now, when Professor Mayor analyzed these names, he noticed something striking. The spelling and the phonetic structure closely resemble the Hebrew name Goliath, Goliath in the Hebrew pronunciation. Now, let me be clear about what this demonstrates. The Ostracon does not prove that the biblical Goliath existed. It doesn't mention David, doesn't describe combat. It doesn't provide details from, you know, the Bible necessarily. But what it does show, and I think this is probably important, is that names very similar to Goliath were actually used by Philistines living in Goth during approximately the same period. Now, this finding gains more significance when we consider the biblical traditions about Goth. So according to Joshua chapter 11, the Anakim, identified in Numbers 1333 as descendants of the Nephilim, took refuge in this region. Now, the fact that Philistine names similar to Goliath appear in Goth, the very city that the Bible identifies as this haven for these giant people, suggests that the biblical authors had some accurate knowledge of both naming conventions and the cultural associations of specific cities. So the name Goliath itself may have carried connotations in the ancient world. Some scholars suggest that it might be related to words that mean like exile or, you know, traveler, which could reflect the Anakim status as, you know, refugees who had been driven from their ancestral lands into Philistine territory. Whether or not this etymology is correct, the use of such names in Goth specifically align with the biblical narrative that this city harbors remnants of a people that would be referred to as Goliath. So we have to think about what this means in context. So for centuries, you know, skeptics suggest that this name Goliath might have been, you know, made up by later biblical writers or borrowed from some other literary tradition or just completely invented. But the discovery of this piece of pottery demonstrates that whoever wrote this account in Samuel knew authentic Philistine names. They weren't just making it up. And more specifically, they knew that names like Goliath were associated with Goth, the very city that, you know, consistently identifies as home to these giant warriors. Now, this is what archaeologists call cultural verisimilitude. Now, this is a fancy word that basically just describes the quality of containing authentic details that ring true to a historical period being described. Like, if someone wrote a story about, like, 1920s Chicago and included accurate slang and street names and, like, details about specific speakeasies that only existed in that time, that wouldn't prove that their specific story was true, but it would demonstrate that they did have a jail genuine knowledge of the time and place. Now this Ostracon does something similar because, you know, it's often called the Goliath inscription, but that's a little bit misleading. Mayer has clarified the Goliath of the inscription from Gath is not the biblical Goliath. He also notes that, you know, most biblical scholars regard the Goliath story as containing some legendary elements. But it does prove that whoever wrote that account in, you know, First Samuel was describing the specific parlance that would have been used in the region. So it seems like some of these archaeological discoveries do point to, you know, a real authentic knowledge of the people and the time period. So again, there are many critics that say that these things were just fictitious, etc. Made up. But it seems like this was the vernacular used in the region. Now there are other pieces of evidence that are way tastier. Now, the Kaffar Menash horde is fascinating. And in order to understand it and really what it means, we gotta go back to the spring of 1962. You have an Israeli farmer that's plowing fields near a region known as Kafar Monash. And this is about like 50 miles north of Goth. Again, this city where Goliath is from. And his plow strikes something hard under the soil. What he'd stumble upon was a deliberately hidden hoard of copper weapons, tools and other objects buried for basically like a thousand years, multiple millennia. And the collection includes, like axes, spear points, silver items, small beads. But the wooden handles that are, you know, would have been attached to the weapon's head and rotted away, leaving only the copper implements. Now, when archaeologists examined the find, they immediately noticed something strange. Many of these weapons were dramatically oversized. I mean, they were giant compared to the typical examples in the, you know, ancient Near East. Now, let's establish some context. This region had yielded thousands of bronze and copper weapons from excavations across Egypt and Mesopotamia, the Levant, Anatolia, all that. Archaeologists have studied these weapons extensively and they have these classification systems based on size and shape. Now, the axe heads from Kefir Monash matched examples found at Tel es Safi at Goth. But the connection immediately caught the archaeologists attention. What were these Goth style weapons doing buried 50 miles to the north? And given that the biblical tradition explicitly identifies this place as a refuge for these giant warriors, could these massive weapons be connected to the same tradition? But it was the spirit points that truly astonished the researchers. The official archaeological report describes the items. This. This is the most remarkable group among the Monash finds. The four spearheads were powerful weapons, beautifully proportioned and of excellent workmanship. All four are identical, identical in shape, though they differ in size. The shortest is 33.3 cm long, including the tang. That's the part where the blade attaches to the wooden shaft. The weight is 0.35 kg. That's 13 inches long and 0.7 pounds. The longest is 66 cm long and weighs 2 kg. That's 26 inches and 4 1/2 pounds. Now, to put that in perspective, typical spearheads from the area in this region are roughly like 6 or 7 centimeters. Right. Like you're gonna imagine a spearhead, it's about like, you know, three inches. That's about three inches, right? I hope so. You would know, Christos. The. The ones that are found at Kafar Manash are 26 inches. That's the tip of the spear. So if you imagine a spear, that's just the tip of it. The rest of the spear is. So it's massive. Now, these spears are basically 10 times bigger than things found in the region. And the report continues basically saying, you know, these are massive. The blades, they are round in cross section, becoming square near the tips. Heav. Hammering marks show on their surface. The spearheads bear signs of use, especially the heaviest, which is bent in one spot and worn in several places along the edge. Now, the details about wear and damage is important, right? Because initially people try to brush this off and say, like, oh, these are ceremonial objects. They are, you know, they were never used. They were given as gifts to, you know, formidable warriors. But if there's wear and tear on them, then perhaps they were not just ceremonial, that they were actual weapons that were used in combat. Now, the report notes, these heavy spearheads would have required a long and well balanced shaft. Pause. The completed spear head and shaft together would form a very long weapon, probably measuring more than the height of a man. Now, here's where it gets interesting. After describing these extraordinary weapons, the archaeological report reaches a puzzling conclusion. In the case of the Monash Spears, however, their unusual size and weight would appear to be an obstacle rather than an aid to anyone carrying them them. In other words, these weapons are too big to be practical for a normal human being. Rather than considering the possibility that these weapons were made for large individuals, the report speculates about alternative uses. They suggest maybe they were, you know, they were large tent poles, right? It says because of the size, the spear would have been a suitable tent pole. One footnote mentions another theory. Perhaps they were used as, like, battering rams used in, like, a Siege warfare. Now, these explanations, you know, seem, you know, maybe not satisfactory to some. If you find a weapon that shows combat damage and is too big for an average person, is it possible that this was for someone that was just big? Who knows? You know, this brings us back to this, you know, story of Goliath and his weapons, but also just to the entire biblical tradition of these giant warriors. Now, the Bible doesn't describe one giant with an unusual weapon. It describes multiple encounters with multiple giants across different time periods. So what's interesting is that there is actually a biblical description of Goliath's equipment. So in 1st Samuel 17:7, it describes his weapons in detail. He had a javelin of bronze slung between his shoulders. The shaft of his spear was like a weaver's beam, and his spearhead weighed 600 shekels of iron. So let's break down that comparison to a weaver's beam. Archaeological evidence from ancient Israel shows us that, you know, weaving looms looked a specific way. The beam of a loom, the horizontal rod from which, like, the thread is actually wound by, is usually two to like two and a half inches thick and, like, five feet long. These were substantial pieces of wood, and they were thick enough to handle the tension from, like, a bunch of threads without actually breaking. So when the biblical text says that his spear was like a weaver's beam, it's not primarily talking about the length. It's emphasizing the thickness, pause, and the strength of the shaft. So a normal spear might be like an inch in diameter, but his was apparently, you know, maybe three inches. Now, the description appears four times in the scripture, twice referring to Goliath's spear, once referring to the spear carried by someone described as Goliath's brother, and once referring to a weapon carried by a giant Egyptian warrior said to be over seven and a half feet tall. The consistency of this description, like a weaver's beam, suggests it was a traditional way of describing weapons or just large warriors back in the day. And perhaps a phrase that might have been used for generations to describe the armaments of these, you know, large people. Now, look at the weight. The biblical text says that the spearhead weighed 600 shekels of iron. Let's do some math. One iron shekel is approximately 12.9 grams, and that means Goliath spearhead weighed around 7.5 kilograms, roughly 16 pounds. Now, earlier in the biblical narrative, we have another reference point, Samuel 21, second Samuel 21 specifically, and it describes Ishbi Benob, which is identified as one of the descendants of Rapha whose bronze spearhead weighed 300 shekels, about half the weight of Goliath's. This suggests a range of oversight weapons associated with these giant warriors and not just one single exaggerated claim. Now compare that with the Monash horde. The largest spearhead found was about 2kg, which is about 160 shekels. And that's certainly large compared to the other things found in the region. But it's only a quarter of the weight of Goliath's described spearhead and half the weight of Ishbi Benobs. So while the Monash weapons were dramatically oversized, they still are not as big as what's described as Goliath's weapons in the Bibles. And this is important. If these weapons exactly match the biblical descriptions, you know, it might seem like an obvious fabrication. The fact that they're large but not as large might actually increase credibility in some way. They represent a genuine archaeological finding that is in the ballpark, but not a perfect match. They are larger than normal, but not as big as what's described. And they may represent the kind of weapons used by these types of unusually large warriors that you would have, you know, custom, you know, custom weapons for these people that were unique in their size. Now, there's a specific chronological issue that needs to be addressed. The archaeological report dates the Monash horde to be early Bronze Age or the beginning of the Early Bronze Age too. So that's roughly like 3200 to 2750 BC. Now, that's approximately 2000 years before David and Goliath would have lived. Now, this creates somewhat of an issue. Why would Bronze Age weapons from, you know, 3200 BC be relevant to an Iron Age warrior in 1000 BC? And there are a few possibilities. First, the dating might be inaccurate. Second, these could be ancient weapons that were collected, preserved, or potentially even reused, like hundreds of years after they were made. And we know ancient people sometimes would recover and reuse these older weapons. Now, third, the connection to Goliath might be coincidental. These could represent a different tradition of large warriors entirely separate from the biblical narrative. Now, another possibility is that, you know, the tradition of these oversized giant warriors existed for thousands of years in the Bible. I mean, the Bible traces giant people even to, you know, before the flood. So as a result, it might be possible that these people had weapons that would be, you know, buried or lost throughout thousands of years and not just starting with Goliath, but existing far before him. This would potentially align with this biblical timeline that presents giants not as a one Time phenomenon, but a people with history. So you have the Nephilim before the flood. Their descendants afterwards are the Anakim and the Emim and the Rephaim, and finally the last remnants in this Philistine city near David's era. Now, this is like a thousand year tradition of this, you know, unusual weaponry that would, you know, satisfy this type of archaeological discovery. The honest answer is that no one really knows. The Monash horde presents us with these genuinely strange, oversized weapons that show signs of combat use. And they're connected to, you know, this giant city of Goth through, you know, the matching types of weapons that they had, specifically the axes, but yet they're buried far away and dated to a period before the biblical time frame. Regardless, what we do know is that this is a bizarre finding. And whether these represent an ancient tradition that eventually produces the, the, you know, legendary weapons of these giants are merely just an interesting but unrelated archaeological curiosity. It's still an open question. Another thing found at Kafar Monash that is very interesting is what people sort of colloquially describe as the armor of Goliath. Now, this is approximately 800 copper pieces of armor that are kind of shaped like scales. Now, to understand the significance, we need to discuss how armor kind of existed in the ancient world. Early armor was pretty simple. You have like thick leather or like cloth that could kind of like absorb blows. But as you know, metallurgy and the ability to forge iron and copper, these things started to change and they started to incorporate metal into their armor. Now the challenge was balancing protection with mobility. These solid metal plates offered a lot of protection, but they were really heavy. So they developed this scaled armor that you'd almost think of like fish scales. And this consisted of like small overlapping metal plates that attached to a backing of leather or cloth. And, you know, each one was kind of like leaf shaped, and it measured a few inches long. And they were attached in rows like a roof. And people could now move quickly, but it also would defend against weapon strikes. Now, what's interesting is that, you know, at Kfar monash, they found 800 of these copper scales. And they had distinctive features unlike most scale armor from this region. They had holes punched through the center for these attachments. And these scales featured raised ridges along the edges. And the archaeological report suggests that these ridges served as attachment points where the scales would be sewn into the leathern undergarments. Now, what puzzled the archaeologists was the sheer quantity found in this one location. So the report notes, a great number of scales found could point to several. Four was suggested later coats of mail being hidden in the Monash horse. The only parallel for the Monash scales was found at Telgoth, where identical copper scales, also forming a package, were uncovered in the area of the city wall. So once again we see a connection between the Monash Horde and Goth through the same chronological issues that these scales are dated to the early Bronze Age. But you know, we're talking about goliath in like 1000 BC. Regardless, if these scales are indeed as old as, you know, the evidence suggests they push back the known history of sophisticated metal armor by centuries. So this isn't just relevant to Goliath, it just change is kind of our perspective on military technology in general. But consider what this means for the biblical tradition for Christians that are listening. If sophisticated metal scale armor existed in the Levant by 3200 BC, and if the technology was preserved and passed down through this warrior culture, then biblical descriptions of these heavily armored giants are spanning from the pre flood to the age of Goliath and the Iron Age. Is it possible there's a genuine technological tradition that maintained across millennia that was basically supported by this giant, your culture? The Bible constantly associates giants with superior military equipment. And perhaps this wasn't just a literary embellishment, but what some people believe is an actual cultural memory. Now what's interesting is that the Bible actually supports this idea of this coat of armor. So in 1st Samuel 17, 5, Goliath's armor is described as this. He was armed with a coat of mail and this is like chain mail. As you can imagine, the scales and the weight of the coat was 5,000 shekels of bronze. And so now once again, 5,000 shekels of Bronze is about 125 pounds of metal armor. That's an extraordinary amount of weight to carry into battle. For example, a full suit of metal plated armor typically is like 55 pounds. So could someone effectively fight while wearing 125 pounds of armor? Well, you would have to be a giant. But if the armor is well designed and the, you know, scales are distributed across the body, it's not impossible, but the person would have to be massive. Now an interesting question from the Monash Horde that we have to ask is, you know, in this archaeological report it says that there's 800 scales that represent several different coats of armor. Four was their estimate. But there's another explanation that believers of this story will propose is that maybe these 800 scales didn't come from four pieces of armor, but rather one coat of giant armor. Now a typical scale Armor shirt for an average person would use 200 to 300 scales. But if you were creating armor for someone that was, was massive, someone 7ft tall, maybe even larger than that, you would need substantially more scales. 800 scales for a single giant sized coat of armor isn't actually that unreasonable. This interpretation becomes even more intriguing when we consider that these scales were found deliberately buried, hidden together as an actual hoard. Why would someone hide four separate normal sized coats of armor together? But if this was a single legendary piece of equipment, perhaps the armor of a famous warrior or a chief known for his unusual size, then hiding it for safekeeping might actually make more sense. The ancient peoples often treated the equipment of these legendary warriors as like precious relics. And they would sometimes, you know, bury them to honor them or hide it from being, you know, captured by a different tribe and getting destroyed. So now we can't prove this interpretation, but it's just kind of interesting to consider. They find all of these, you know, like scales all in one place also with these, you know, giant tools. And you're like, well, maybe this is just, just like the, you know, war chest of a giant warrior back in the day. And when I say giant, maybe he was just like, you know, seven, nine. He might have been, you know, almost eight feet tall. And that's pretty big. So today you can go to the Israel Museum in Jerusalem and examine these scales up close. And they're actually relatively small. Individually, you can hold one in your palm. And I guess the idea is that, you know, if you're going to make these scales, you're going to go to the actual metal worker that makes the armor for everyone, but just make a giant one with a bunch of pieces. So it would be the normal size for, you know, a normal piece of armor. But you put a bunch of them together, now you're cooking. So if you see 800 of them together, you can imagine them attached, you know, to this leather backing and you really start to appreciate how sophisticated the technology of this ancient world really was. And you also understand why the Bible described Goliath's armor in such detail. Like, this was a champion, equipped with like the state of the art military technology. This was like the, you know, f16 of the time. It's expensive and specialized and it just shows like how elite of a fighter he was. Now this is not the only piece of, you know, biblical, I guess you could say, archaeology that talks about giants. The biblical narrative about Goliath includes a detail that might seem like a bizarre tangent, but actually connects to some Archaeological and medical evidence, and it provides additional information about the biblical tradition of linking Goliath to ancient giant clans. Now this is interesting. First Chronicles 20 and the parallel passage in Second Samuel 21, Goliath had sons or brothers. The Hebrew can indicate either direct descendants or just kind of distant relatives who also became warriors. And one of these individuals is described as having 24 digits total, six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot. Now, the passage specifically states in still another battle which took place place in Goth, there was a huge man with six fingers on each hand, six toes on each foot, 24 in all. He was also descended from Rapha. Now again, Rapha is one of the descendants of the Rephaim, who are another one of these massive people. But by identifying this six fingered warrior as a descendant of Rapha, the biblical text explicitly connects him to these ancient giant peoples. The same lineage that traces back to the Anakim and then all the way back to the Nephilim. Now, in medical terminology, this condition is known as polydactyl, and it's come from the Greek term many fingers. Fingers. It's a genetic anomaly that occurs when someone is born with extra fingers and toes. And it's not super rare. I mean, polydactyly occurs in roughly one out of every thousand births worldwide, although the frequency varies, you know, different populations. And most cases involve like a small, non functional extra digit that can be just removed surgically. And in some cases, the extra digit is like fully formed and functional. Historical records document individuals with polydactyly who learn to use their extra fingers for practical tasks. And so some are like musicians or craftspeople, warriors. And it tends to run in families. And so this biblical text mentions this detail for a specific reason. It's describing a family line of warriors known for this unusual characteristic. The passage names several of David's warriors who fought and killed various descendants of these giants from Goth. So 2 Samuel 21 recounts four separate encounters with giants from Goth, culminating in verse 22. These four were descendants of Rapha and they fell at the hands of David and his men. So is it possible that the polydactyl warrior is presented as one of these four, all identified as part of the same lineage? Now, for a long time, skeptics would just dismiss this as like a legend and the kind of, you know, embellishment that gets added to these hero stories, it's like, oh, you have a giant. And not only was he giant, his hands were giant. They were so giant they had six fingers, years. But then there have been some archaeological discoveries that point to something interesting. In a published article on polydactyly in the ancient world, scholar R.D. bennett describes findings from many different archaeological excavations. He says two examples of polydactyly from the 13th century BC appear on clay sarcophagi in these quasi Egyptian style found at Deir al Balal near Gaza. One, formerly in the collections of Moishe Dayan and now acquired by the Israel Museum, shows a man with six fingers on his left hand. Another excavation by Trude Dothan, is indistinct in details, but was clearly meant to be polydactylus. Now, these aren't isolated examples. The article references additional depictions of polydactyly from the near east, from Egypt, Mesopotamia, the Levant. And what's interesting about this observation is the cultural significance. Early examples seem to indicate that polydactyly was a characteristic of giants or of people with a superpower or a divine strength. And in this connection, we find some depictions with even more than six fingers or toes. Now, this suggests that in these cultures at the time, polydactyly was associated with these people of unusual size and strength. And this aligns once again with the biblical narrative. Now, from a modern genetic perspective, there's actually some potential connection. The biblical text describes a family line, these descendants of Rapha in Goth, and it noted them for their unusual height and also this occasional polydactyly. Now, medical science has identified genetic conditions where gigantism and polydactyly occur together. Mutations affecting growth hormone regulation can sometimes occur alongside developmental mutations affecting limb formation. These are called pleiotropic effects. So when a single gene mutation produces multiple seemingly unrelated effects. So one example is certain forms of Greg cephopolysyndactyly syndrome, where mutations in the GLI3 gene can cause both unusual growth patterns and polydactyly. So while we obviously can't diagnose ancient individuals with modern medical conditions, these things have been actually studied in the modern day that these genetic factors can cause people to have this massive unusual height and also an extra digit. Now, biblical authors weren't just inventing these details. They recorded traditions about specific family lines of warriors in the specific area area, allegedly descendants of Rafa, who's descendants of these giant Nephilim people. Now, from a modern medical perspective, we can understand that, you know, this might just be genetic mutations. From an ancient cultural perspective, it marked these individuals as extraordinary. And what's interesting is that the biblical text doesn't really treat these details as supernatural or miraculous. It's sort of matter of fact. It simply just records that these individuals existed. They were giant, they fought against Israel, some of them had six fingers, and, you know, the Israelite warriors eventually defeated them. It presents them as the last remnants of these ancient people and ultimately a fulfillment of Joshua's campaign to drive out the Anakim. With only these few survivors remaining in the Philistine cities. Now, this reporting kind of increases the plausibility of the accounts. In some ways. If the biblical authors were inventing legends, they could have made their giants more fantastical, even, know, 20ft tall with wings, breathing fire, whatever. Instead, they've recorded what seems like plausible, medically possible physical characteristics. And they connected these individuals to a broader biblical narrative of giant peoples that stretch back through a bunch of multiple, you know, multiple books throughout history. Now, we've talked about Goliath in the world of the Philistines and some of the tacit evidence about these giants, but what about David himself? Was he a real person or just a legend? Many people, you know, will look at these biblical characters, Jesus himself, and they'll say, like, oh, maybe he didn't even exist. Maybe Jesus wasn't a real person. It seems like most historians do believe Jesus was real, but some, you know, still debate the existence of the historical David. But it seems as though there has been new evidence that supports the idea that this king truly did exist. And much of this happened in 1993 at a site called Tel Dan in northern Israel. Archaeologists found fragments of a stone monument, this ancient stele reused as building material. When they cleaned and reassembled it, they saw 13 lines written in old Aramaic. And in line nine, two words electrified the world of archaeology. Bet. David. The house of David. This wasn't written by Israelites praising their king. It was carved by an enemy, likely King Hazael of Syria, boasting of victories over Israel and Judah. In other words, within a century of David's lifetime, foreign nations already recognized Judah as the dynasty of David. It was the first extra biblical reference to David really ever discovered. Solid evidence that Israel's most famous king wasn't just a later invention. But this debate now shifted almost immediately. Today, almost no serious scholar doubts that David was a real person, though these stories about him remain a blend of some history with some, you know, myth. But what about David's most infamous act, this killing of. Of Goliath? Here, archaeology gets really fascinating. Again, we can't prove the duel happened necessarily, but the setting fits perfectly. The Philistines were powerful, based in fortified cities like Goth. They had Superior weapons and armor. In Israel, this smaller kind of upstart people fought them constantly. The battlefield described in First Samuel, the valley of Elah, is a real place. And that humble little sling people talk about it was far from like a child's toy. These ancient slings were, were devastating military weapons. King Tut was actually buried with slings in his tomb. Egyptian reliefs show soldiers using them from, you know, ships in battle. Archaeologists found, you know, sling stones across the Mediterranean. Smooth hand sized projectiles that could get up to over a hundred miles an hour if you were able to use it properly. So like a skilled slinger could actually hit a target from 40 meters away. Like, these are tools used in hunting and warfare all the time. Time. And so if you could stay far enough from Goliath and his giant spear, you could hit him with a sling and potentially even knock him out. In other words, he wasn't fighting foolishly. He was using the one weapon that gave him an edge. So the story of David and Goliath then isn't a fantasy. It's a drama that could be rooted in a real culture, in real warfare, and a real historical figure whose name was carved into a stone 3,000 years ago. Now, the archaeology doesn't prove every detail of the Bible, but it does show that behind these legends stands a real world. And in this world, shepherds could become kings and one single stone could potentially topple a giant. So there you have it. We have examined many of the categories of evidence relating to the biblical accounts of David and Goliath and giants, more broadly speaking. You know, you have these enormous fortifications at 11th century Goth, demonstrating that it was, was a legit warrior city of the Philistines. These massive structures that are, you know, consistent with a city of power and sophistication. Ancient pottery showing the names of Goliath and that these terms were actually used by the Philistines approximately in this period. The oversized weapons of, you know, Kafar Manash, that have these spears that are three times or 10 times bigger than the spears, you know, found at the time. Of course, the copper armor scales, again, massive in quantity, potentially from just one suit of armor for a large human being. And then, you know, the evidence of this polydactyly and its connection with the fact that, you know, some people have gigantism and also an extra digit. And of course the evidence that David was a historical figure found at Tel Dan, which once again demonstrates that, you know, slings were effective military weapons and that this whole story of David and Goliath could have actually played out. But, but what conclusion can we actually draw from this? First, I want to be clear that this evidence does not prove that there was a warrior named Goliath that 100% existed. It does not prove that this specific battle actually occurred in this actual valley. It doesn't prove every detail of the biblical narrative is correct. And it certainly doesn't prove the existence of Nephilim or other physical evidence of these giant pre floods, you know, people. But it does demonstrate something that is still significant. The biblical narrative is rooted in authentic historical and cultural context. The story contains genuine knowledge of this region at the right time. It describes real places and realistic weapons and armor. And furthermore, the narrative fits within a consistent biblical tradition about large people that existed from Genesis to second Samuel. And I think it matters because it addresses the common dismissal of the story of like, oh yeah, giants, like dragon dragons. It's like, well, you know, I mean, don't even get me started. Dragons might just be dinosaurs, but bad example, but people will just be like, oh yeah, you can just brush off the, the giants, who cares? But it seems like the evidence shows that there was a, some type of record of these people that were abnormally large. Were they literal giants the way people think of giants now? You know, like one eye, like huge, 30 foot people? Not necessarily. You know, it could just be be a group of people that were genetically predisposed to being pretty tall. And as a result this whole culture was just known as giant people. And again, I think the story is helpful because it, you know, legitimizes David as the king and shows him as God's chosen champion, which then contributes to the existence of Jesus and later traditions throughout the Gospel. It also shows, you know, God's power to defeat not just human enemies, but the, you know, remnants of these ancient giant people that God has been trying to get off of Earth. It does a bunch of things literarily and theologically. Theologically that again, you can't actually prove or disprove in the historical record, but it does serve a bunch of different purposes. So in the end this debate will continue as it should. But the conversation is now informed by some physical evidence and some artifacts that really do support the biblical narrative in some way. And maybe, who knows, there might be more artifacts to discover in the future. And that is all the evidence archaeologically that we have of these giants. Giants in the Bible. So yeah, I mean the way I look at this, I'm like, there's probably some tall people. They're probably like seven foot, maybe like seven and a half feet, who knows? And maybe they were, you know, all of like the same clan. Especially in that time. People would kind of like intermarry much more frequently. So you would have just tall people making more tall people. And they were super tall. And then tall people would be like co opted by different societies, be like, hey, you guys can be the warriors. Because you're so big and tall. You can f up all of our people people. So they become like a warrior class that goes around. And then people mythologize the warrior class and be like, oh, these people are the descendants of, you know, these other people from these earlier stories, the Nephilim, the, you know, the Anunnaki, whatever you want to call them that, you know, these people are not human fully. They are some type of, you know, hybrid human other thing. But it's really just, I think, a way that human beings try to conceptualize these massive people from back in the day. I mean, these swords, they could be ceremonial, you know, from the Kafar Monash horde, like the spears, they could be ceremonial. They could be used in a non conventional way, like a battering ram or something. But it's also possible there was just like an eight foot dude that got customized weaponry. Like that wouldn't be crazy to me. Or he had like, you know, a giant suit of armor because he was just a massive guy. Who knows? Especially if the average height at that time was like five foot. You see it catch a guy that's eight foot and you're like, oh, yeah, this is, you know, this is, this tracks. I mean, who was the tallest guy ever? Robert Wadlow? Is that his name? Um, let's find out. Yeah, I mean, did I just pull it out? And I mean, I'm nice with some of my weird dumb facts. Arc. I could tell you had a Ripley's Believe it or not book as a kid. Yes, bro. That's where I got it from. I mean, he was walking around 8 foot 11 inches. I mean, granted he had like, I think a pituitary issue, like a tumor on his gland in his head that made him super tall. But he lived like a pretty decent amount of time. 22 years. Nice. I mean, he looks old in the pictures. If you look at him, you're like, dude, there's no way you're 22. But it's possible, you know, like some guy back in the day, back in the Bible times had some type of pituitary clan thing and became super tall. And then they were like, well, get out there and fight. Here's some armor. Here's a sword. Let it rip. And then he was known as this legendary warrior. And they buried all this stuff. To me, I'm like, this all tracks. So I don't know, is it a giant in the way we describe them? No, I think it was kind of a way to describe. Describe actual giant people. But really, what is a giant? Again, this goes back to the thing I said earlier. If you see a super tall guy, you're like, that's a giant. Is it a whole society of giant people that are not human actually, that are, you know, like 30ft tall? No, I don't think that's the case. But super tall people walking around fighting battles because they're useful, getting customized armor for it. Look, I'm not going to say it's not possible. I think that's. I think there's something to it. And I think people mythologize the Nephilim thing after the fact. They go, this guy's super tall. Why is he so tall? Obviously one of his ancestors banged a human, but he's actually a demon or whatever. I don't know. What do you guys think? Am I missing something here? Please drop a comment. Let me know if I'm totally off base. That's just what I think. Anyway, Croesus, what do you think? I just love calling an extra finger toe digits. Yeah, that's just fire, right? Crazy. Yeah, yeah, that. That's. That's why I say, yo, give me your digits, and I just dab them up. But no, dude, I'm like, I mean, to you, everyone's a giant, right? Chrisos is four foot. Ouch. You didn't need that today, dude. Yeah, you didn't. Let me actually reverse that. Let me take that all the way back, you know? Well, you know, every Cruso sees a giant every time he looks in the mirror. Am I right? Thank you. I needed that. Every time he whips out his piece, dude, that's. That's. That's what I call the. The Kafar Monash. Just Criso's pants just with that thick. This is a religion camp channel. We can't be this debaucherous. I'm sorry, guys. That was rude. Anyway, if there's anything I missed on this topic, please drop a comment. If there's any type of cool archaeology I didn't catch. Catch, let me know. And what do you think? Are giants real? Was this just a literary way to describe tall people? Was it completely made up? A fictitious account? I would love to know your take. Please drop the comment. I read all of them. All right. YouTube, Spotify, and the top comment on this video. We'll be getting free merch. We'll be sending it your way. You can also catch me on the road. Mark Agnon live. I'll be doing one hour of stand up comedy, unfortunately. It's a great time. Everyone's been talking about it. And I will see you guys, us in the future here at religion Camp. Peace be with you. Here we go. Count on Sundays with the NFL on CBS and Paramount. Plus, this is incredible. Watch your local NFL game live all season long. And he's in for a touchdown. Visit paramountplus.com NFL to get started today.