Are Cartels The New Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Camp Gagnon – "Are Cartels The New Weapons of Mass Destruction?"

Host: Mark Gagnon
Guest: Dave Frank (Former anti-cartel operative, law student, Mexico/US)
Release Date: January 6, 2026

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Main Theme & Episode Overview

This episode of Camp Gagnon dives deep into the escalating conflict between the US military and international drug cartels, focusing specifically on recent US missile strikes against suspected drug boats off Venezuela. Mark and guest Dave Frank—who has first-hand experience combating cartels and studying law in Mexico—discuss the blurred lines between law enforcement, military intervention, corruption, and due process. They grapple with ethical and strategic questions: Are militarized responses and extrajudicial killings justified? What roles do governments, corruption, and foreign policy ambitions (like oil) play? And what are the wider impacts on US society, law, and the Americas?

The conversation is rich in anecdotes, historical comparisons, and moral reckoning, set against the backdrop of recent real-world events that are pushing the US and its neighbors toward a new kind of war.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. US Military Strikes Against “Drug Boats”

• Context: In September 2025, the US military used air-to-surface missiles to destroy multiple boats off the coast of Venezuela, sparking debate about the launch of a new “war” on cartels and the implications for international law and sovereignty.
• Dave's Take:
  • He stresses these operations often cross crucial lines: “When you're blasting boats out of the water just because…the guys that survived they released to Ecuador, and if they weren't innocent, they wouldn't have released them.” (09:06–09:44)
  • Strongly argues for due process: “People need to have their day in court…You still need to detain them and put them in court.” (09:45–09:53)

2. The Principle and Importance of Due Process

• Importance of legal protections, presumption of innocence, and the dangers of government overreach.
• Dave recounts his own shift in perspective when attending law school in Mexico:
  • “Our professors...told them, all right muchachos, you need to change your mentality. People have a right to due process. They have a right to have their day in court. They have a right of presumption of innocence.” (07:01–08:36)

3. The Venezuelan Angle: Drugs, Oil, and Foreign Policy Motivations

• Dave is skeptical that these strikes are purely about drugs:
  • “What I think this is about is...Venezuelan oil. We have the power to go over there and take over their whole country. They have the largest oil reserves on the planet right now, and the United States wants them.” (05:57–06:00, repeated for emphasis at 18:16–18:27)
• Host Mark probes whether these incidents are part of a provocation campaign against the Maduro regime.

4. Cartel Power & Government Complicity

• Dave discusses how cartels like CJNG ("Cartel de Jalisco Nueva Generacion") and Sinaloa often act with a level of government tolerance or outright corruption.
• “You have to wonder if...any government...including the Venezuelan government—is complicit in that.” (15:17–15:50)

5. Corruption and Law Enforcement—On Both Sides of the Border

• The pervasiveness of corruption is not unique to Mexico, Dave notes, pointing to recent US Border Patrol scandals:
  • “US Border Patrol just got done wrapping up an investigation where...over 100 Border Patrol agents have been busted for being corrupt.” (44:53–46:27)
  • “It’s not just the CIA and the cocaine in the 80s...It’s so intertwined, it’s just crazy.” (44:53–46:00)

6. Myth Busting: The Reality of Cartel Membership and Victims

• Many “cartel mules” are ordinary people coerced into trafficking under threat of violence.
• “A lot of the people the cartel gets to work for them...they kidnap them, they force them.” (33:15–34:06)
• Extra-judicial killings by the US risk killing victims rather than cartel bosses, and waste intelligence-gathering opportunities.

7. Extrajudicial Killings, Militancy, and the Precedent of State Violence

• Dave draws parallels to historical abuses (e.g., Guantanamo, Padilla case, the use of torture), warning of a slow erosion of legal norms.
• He opposes using the regular military for law enforcement:
  • “Once the military is allowed to come in the street...they’re going to remain. The military is not about arresting people and presumption of innocence. The military is about lethality.” (68:33–70:10)

8. US Political and Corporate Interests, History, and Systemic Power

• Frequent discussions about the US government’s history of arming insurgents and criminals (e.g., Iran-Contra, Fast & Furious, weapons left in Afghanistan).
• Dave is critical of the "military-industrial complex" and political leadership’s habit of stoking crises to expand power.
  • “It's always the government granting itself more power through creating a problem, exacerbating that problem, then being like, okay, we're here to fix it.” (61:40–62:16)

9. Immigration, Deportation, and Compassion

• Emotional discussion about the border crisis, sensible reform, and humanizing immigrants:
  • “Mexicans and Americans have lived in this country for so long that we need to be able to cohabitate successfully...But the policymakers ought to be ashamed of themselves...they've dropped the ball with it 100%.” (57:08–60:18)

10. How Would Dave Fix Mexico as President?

• Focus on economic growth, removing corruption, and depriving cartels of public sector access:
  • “If you legalize drugs...and it’s a foregone conclusion that you will spend the rest of your life in prison...if you are found to be helping [cartels]...I think it’s more effective than blowing up boats off the coast of Venezuela.” (83:25–84:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the necessity of due process:

  • “People need to have their day in court. They need to have the opportunity to confront their accusers... I wasn’t aware of any of it. And so I just, like, signed off on everything. And I think a lot of people in the United States are doing that with the Venezuelan boats. Are they trafficking cocaine? A thousand percent. They still need to have their day in court.” (25:15–26:05)

• On “Shock and Awe” as drug policy:

  • Mark: “I think it’s also a lot of like shock and awe...if you’re like, ‘I might get hit with a missile out of the sky,’ I think there’s a lot of other drug traffickers that are like, ‘I’m not going to even attempt to deal with [drugs].’”
  • Dave: “That’s true. But...what I would do if I was a drug smuggler...I would find ways to manipulate people and their families with the threat of violence...and get them to do my dirty work.” (32:34–33:15)

• On Government Corruption:

  • “If you look at corruption for what it really is, it is betraying your country. If that's not treason, I don't know what is. They talk about insurrection, they talk about treason, but they don't ever talk about it being, being committed by the politicians that are entrusted with safeguarding that institution.” (80:38–83:07)

• On American Policy & Historical Amnesia:

  • “When we talk about whether or not Biden or Trump or Bush or Clinton—a president—allows something to go on, it's not true. It's the Congress and the agencies themselves, primarily the Senate...At every turn, it's always...government granting itself more power through creating a problem, exacerbating that problem, then being like, okay, we're here to fix it...no party politics in it. It's the same thing by both sides.” (61:40–62:16)

• On the risk of militarization and civil rights erosion:

  • “When we allow the military in the streets in the United States, what we're really saying is that we're going to suspend the rule of law...and we're just going to kill you. And I would counsel against that too.” (68:33–70:10)

• Personal Parallel—Law, Compassion, and Christian Duty:

  • “My whole existence better be based on what's in that book. If I subscribe to being a Christian—and I know that this is still a predominantly Christian country—so when people are out there watching our podcast, I would just...ask you to examine your own internal beliefs and then decide what your opinion is going to be.” (63:23–64:49)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |-----------|--------------| | 00:00–01:09 | Opening—US strikes in Venezuela, Dave’s background | | 04:07–09:45 | US attacks on drug boats, legal/ethical debate | | 09:45–13:14 | Due process, law school shift, waterboarding and torture | | 13:17–18:28 | Cartel-government interplay, why cartels grow, Venezuela’s oil | | 20:47–22:49 | Released survivors, due process at home, constitutional rights | | 23:53–26:24 | “Constitution-free zones” and US law erosion | | 32:02–36:03 | “Shock and awe,” real cartel victims, loss of intelligence | | 39:06–41:48 | Cartel members in the US: scale and types | | 44:53–46:33 | Border Patrol corruption in US, scale of problem | | 53:40–64:49 | Immigration policy, deportation, and human stories | | 68:33–71:40 | Military in the streets, why that’s dangerous | | 76:18–84:15 | How to fight cartels (as Mexican president): economic growth, legal reforms, anti-corruption | | 85:19–89:33 | Fast & Furious, US gun-running, zero accountability | | 92:43–96:19 | Endless “wars”—war on terror, on drugs, on ‘ghosts’ | | 96:23–97:18 | Dave’s law ambitions and concluding camaraderie |

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Episode Tone and Style

The conversation is frank, deeply personal, and unvarnished, often blending dark humor and gravitas. Mark provides accessible questions and humility, while Dave delivers hard-won, sometimes contrarian truths with the measured tone of someone who’s lived every side—enforcement, law, and family. Both show genuine mutual respect, switching easily between legal debate, policy critique, moral inquiry, and banter.

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Takeaways

• Due process and the rule of law are not luxuries, but the bulwark against tyranny and moral corruption—even (and especially) in the face of crime and chaos.
• Government complicity, incompetence, or corruption is a linchpin in the power of cartels—military “solutions” often sideline real reform.
• Extrajudicial force has dire moral and practical consequences and frequently targets the wrong people, squanders intelligence, and sets dangerous precedents.
• The stories on the ground—from coerced fishermen to victims of corrupt policing—are far more nuanced and tragic than the public debate admits.
• Fixing the problem requires economic empowerment, institutional overhaul, and unflinching accountability for both petty criminals and politicians at the highest levels.

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Memorable outro from Dave:
“I would come down so hard on political corruption and stuff like that, maintaining elections. I'm not going to be God because I think that a little bit of power in the hands of somebody for a short period of time is a good thing...But the political corruption and stuff like that would come down and law enforcement corruption and military corruption, I'd come down on that like a ton of bricks.” (80:38–83:07)

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For listeners interested in geopolitics, ethics, and the realities of modern "narco-wars," this episode is illuminating, provocative, and, critically, asks the questions most ignore.

Transcript

[A]

In September of 2025, off the coast of Venezuela, a small group of boats were struck by the US military in an air to surface strike, likely with Hellfire missiles. To many, this seems like the war against the cartels have officially begun and potentially against Venezuela itself. Now today's guest, Dave Frank, isn't commenting from the outside. He's been close and actually knows what it's like to fight the cartel. And he can tell us what happens when ideology, foreign policy and human ambition collide and what happens when things go catastrophically wr.

[B]

There are a lot of coca plantations in South America throughout Ecuador, Bolivia, Colombia and Venezuela due to the climate. And I am 100% certain those drugs are trafficked through Mexico.

[A]

This conversation isn't about conspiracy theories. It is about what happens after these operations. What is it really like to go to war with the cartel? We talk about Venezuela, we talk about power, belief and responsibility. And we talk about the moments that force a personal reckoning.

[B]

They do have drug boats, but really what I think this is about is I think it's about Venezuelan oil. We have the power to go over there and take over their whole country. They have the largest oil reserves on the planet right now and the United States wants them.

[A]

If you are interested in geopolitics and how the cartel really operates and what a war with these narco armies and their affiliate governments would look like, this is the episode for you. So sit back, relax, and welcome to Canada. Dave. What's up brother?

[B]

Mark, I am happy to be here in the camp.

[A]

Hell yeah, dude. Thank you so much for joining us, man. I appreciate it.

[B]

Kid. Me, I flew all the way across the country just to see you and your team. Jaime. Jesus Christos. I finally get to see off camera.

[A]

This guy flew 10 hours to not find parking. Isn't that amazing?

[B]

That is true.

[A]

What a world. What a world.

[B]

Crystal, you have already said too much. It's my turn. Here we go.

[A]

Yeah, Cristos. How are you buddy? Doing great. Guys there, you getting there. You're getting the spirit. Let's go, Dave.

[B]

So anyways, yeah, man, flew out here, laid over in Chicago, came over, got to go up to Connecticut and see some people.

[A]

Nice. Yeah. Did you. The episodes that we did, people are. People are loving. A lot of great feedback. I mean, I mean, just even going through some of these. It's one of these. One of these comments says this man has seen some.

[B]

Oh yeah, you see a couple things.

[A]

I think that's pretty accurate.

[B]

Well, let me point something out on that one because I will read all the comments, too. You do see some stuff. And there are some things that you have to talk to a lawyer about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Before you actually discuss. Because you have loyalty. Implications of the people that you worked with in the government you represent. You want to do a good job representing that. And then you also have some stuff that could be considered gray area.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I would like to be more descriptive at times, but at the same time, you got to make sure that you don't reveal too much or make things come off a certain way.

[A]

Well, this one says, God, protect this man at all costs. So there you go. You got on your side.

[B]

God's protecting me as long as I'm putting the right foot forward. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He'll also let me go off in the weeds if I choose. Yeah.

[A]

Just go figure some stuff out and then come back for a little bit, you know, baby. Yeah, exactly. That's all it takes. But, dude, I'm so excited to have you in as our resident cartel fighter. Okay. You've.

[B]

I want to thank you for giving me an audience, an opportunity. You and your team were the first people to even listen to me. And so.

[A]

Well, I'm glad we did. I'm glad we did. And you took us into your home. You guys made us some amazing drinks.

[B]

Black coffee and water. I know what you guys all drink.

[A]

I mean, still trapped, dude. Your brain is. Is locked in.

[B]

You know what? I would forget people's names. And I met your team. And the importance you took with taking the time to remember everybody's name, I've really implemented that in my life.

[A]

So, man, also, this beautiful rosary that your wonderful wife gave me, I still have it right here.

[B]

My wife. Sometimes it's hit or miss with that lady, but she's always a keeper.

[A]

You're not allowed to cry this episode.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We have a strict rule. All right.

[B]

Okay, no problem.

[A]

No more getting emotional in the tent.

[B]

I won't do it.

[A]

No, I think it's going to happen. I can feel it. I can feel it.

[B]

I can feel it. I got a hard heart, Mark. We'll see.

[A]

But, dude, I wanted to ask you. There's all sorts of crazy stuff going on with the current president in the administration, Trump and the cartels, and specifically the things going on in Venezuela. So I'm sure you've seen a lot of these drug boats that have been getting shot, Right. By the US Military without really any due process. There are these drug boats that are coming off the coast of Venezuela and just getting hit with missiles. I think as of today, there's like six of them that got hit. It's pretty crazy.

[B]

They've sent some of the survivors to Ecuador too, which automatically means that they weren't doing anything bad or else they wouldn't let them go.

[A]

Right. So I guess from the outside I look at this and I'm like, look, I don't know if you're going to be blasting people without going through some type of court of law, you know what I mean? Like, I would hope that we can take these people, put them on trial, are they actually affiliated with cartels, is this actually drugs, all that kind of stuff and then seeing what's really going on. But I'm curious, what is your take as someone that's worked in Mexico and, and actually seen these cartels face to face?

[B]

My, my take on it is the international trafficking of drugs between Venezuela and Mexico is not something I've personally seen. But also where I operated in was in the central region, the central northern region of the country. So there's not going to be any boat traffic because there's absolutely no beaches or whatever. So myself and my group and the government agency that I worked for didn't have anything to do that would be more of a marine function in the Republic of Mexico. Having said that, I went to law school in Mexico and I remember when my partners and I first got into law school, our professors were actually lawyers that worked for the government. And in Mexico the only people that really have high school or college degrees as far as the military go or any federal agents would be federal investigative agents for the ministry or the Marines because they are required to have a four year degree or a five year degree in Mexico to go in there. So they're a very, very. And I have a point, just bear with me. They're educated and they choose to go into that. Other people are, have obligatory military service. So there's a black ball and a white ball that you draw out of a bag. One tells you whether or not you have to complete compulsory or military service. Or not.

[A]

It's literally, it's a random.

[B]

It's a bag or a box that you stick your hand into and you pull out a white or a black ball. If you're a male. Females can choose to do military service.

[A]

This is in all of Mexico or just specific parts.

[B]

All of Mexico. Everybody, every male in Mexico. The same way that we have to go down and register for social service when we turn 18. Where you're not able to have federal jobs. They have the same thing in Mexico, except they call it A Cartier de Servicio Militar.

[A]

It's like Hogwarts.

[B]

You got to go in, you get.

[A]

The sorting hat and they put you somewhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so one of them is military service. The other one is what?

[B]

The other one, you do not have to do it, but you can still get your military service card liberated because you went down and presented to see whether or not you had to do compulsory military service. Point being, a lot of people that wind up being police or agents or military in Mexico have a very low education level as far as, like, even junior high. I was shocked when I found out. My brothers for my platoon, I love them. I would die for him. I would die for him to this day. Ammo, Huracan, Tyson. I can name all of them. Hogwire, Reavis got electrocuted. I think I talked about that on one of the other things. Sinaloa. There's a group of us, and I love these guys and some of them only have junior high school education. But anyways, when we're going to law school, when we're at work, we definitely have the mentality that, yeah, we're totally down with confronting armed cartel groups, nothing disrespectful about it, and meeting them on the pitch, so to speak, and just whatever is going to happen is going to happen. But when you go to law school, and this is getting to the drug boats, because this is an important concept, our professors, who were the lawyers that worked for the same people we worked for, told them, all right, muchachos, you need to change your mentality. People have a right to due process. They have a right to have their day in court. They have a right of presumption of innocence. They have a right to have charges levied against them, because sometimes people are detained and aren't even charged. They have a right, once they're charged and convicted, to have a determinate sentence instead of indeterminate sentencing, where they're just locked away forever like we do in Guantanamo Bay. And I want to bear in mind, because I try to stay off all politics, because everyone sees this and they have a right to their perspective. But I grew up basically a conservative libertarian, and I have supported Trump in a lot of ways and a lot of things and have voted for him personally. I've also voted for Joe Jorgensen on a personal level, so the audience understands where I'm at with this. But you have to maintain or preserve, preserve people's presumption of innocence and right to the day of court. When you're blasting boats out of the water just because. And it is just because. Because the guys that survived that one boat attack, they released to Ecuador and if they weren't innocent, they wouldn't have released them. So everyone that's saying, oh, you can see it's not a fishing boat on. On Facebook, you're going to see whatever they upload, make whatever judgment out in you Internet land. And you don't know what the particulars of that. That wouldn't come out until a court of law. So these people need to be detained. And if they are smuggling drugs and they need to have their day in court.

[A]

Right. Well, let's say it is a drug boat.

[B]

If it is a drug boat, you.

[A]

Probably still need to detain them and put them in court.

[B]

Correct. Is it sentenced death?

[A]

Exactly. Yeah, it's not.

[B]

And they're not even convicted of anything at that point. So it's still an extra, extrajudicial killing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which I have to say that the United States carried out and executed an American service member back during World War II or something like that for waterboarding or it was something along these lines. So, I mean, they've taken torture seriously up until the Bush administration when they came out with enhanced interrogation techniques. Waterboarding, which I have personally seen. I've also actually done it to myself in my basement right where you were sitting. Because it was the. It was the Julian Dory Tommy G video. And I was conducting some experiments down in my basement. I didn't get it conduct them on you and Jaime.

[A]

But, you know, I'm glad.

[B]

Bad.

[A]

Thank God.

[B]

I wanted. I was. I wanted to pose the question, but it was probably enough.

[A]

So how did it go when you waterboard yourself?

[B]

It was really. I cheated because I stuck my head in this bucket of water down there. I did. I. I taped it up. I put a towel on.

[A]

Were you there for this? No, but I saw the butt and everything.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm down there and I'm like waterboarding myself and I'm hitting myself, my head because I just want to see how it goes. Because I thought their claims were dubious, man. And I love Tommy G. Julian. I'm not. I'm not talking smack. I love you guys, man. In fact, you're right here in New York. Well, Tommy G's not. But Julian's out there.

[A]

Julian's not far away. I actually talked to him for like two hours about his experience with it.

[B]

You tell him that I will love to waterboard him. No, because you let Boost Amani do it. Hey, man, I'm legit I'll come over here.

[A]

No, no, Bustamante is legit. That dude.

[B]

Oh, I know he is.

[A]

Dude, that guy's scary.

[B]

I'm sure he is, but that's okay. Cartel members are scary, too. We can have a party.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it'd be fun.

[B]

We'll turn the lights down low. We'll have candles and have a sound.

[A]

Play some music, bottle of wine.

[B]

Waterboarding.

[A]

Yeah, that'd be nice.

[B]

I would dig it.

[A]

Wait, so when did you see waterboarding?

[B]

Huh? The particulars of that. You'll see that. Let's leave that part out of it, Mark.

[A]

Okay, whatever you say.

[B]

We see it during training. I'll say that one more. When we're down, we'll do it to each other. It happens down in Mexico. And other. Your other guests have talked about stuff that goes on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so there is waterboarding. Yeah. It's pretty. It's pretty dicey. I mean, when it's being applied fervently.

[A]

I mean, what do you think based off having it done to you by yourself, did you feel like it was.

[B]

I haven't had someone do it to me, and if I had someone do it to me and I was not in control of the situation, it would be terrifying.

[A]

Yeah. It enhanced interrogation, or I'm against it.

[B]

I mean, but do you think it.

[A]

Broaches into torture, personally?

[B]

Yeah, definitely.

[A]

My issue with it is it seems like the quality information is never great. I've talked to some. Some agency guys, and they're always like, you're putting someone in a situation where they'll just say anything.

[B]

I've seen. I've seen a lot of interrogations. I'm just going to say that right now. And in Mexico, during the scope of my work, you'll ask them questions. And let's just remember that interrogating someone is not inherently bad. That's just simply sitting someone down that's suspected of anything or. Or has information of some type. They may not even be a criminal. You can interrogate a witness. So there's witness interrogation. So you're not torturing people.

[A]

Yeah. Asking questions, but.

[B]

Well, when you're asking these people questions, they come out with canned answers, like a canned pitch. It's the same thing. It's the same question or answer every question, every time. And you will notice the demeanor of people when you're talking to them. And Cartel de Jalisco de Nueva Caneracion has gotten a lot more powerful. And I don't know if they have government support of some type that allows them to Grow to be that powerful. Because when you look at who their contemporaries are, their contemporaries are people like gafe, special forces that decide to go off and create their own cartels. Completely fearsome. How fearsome? Fearsome enough that the Gulf Cartel hired them to be their enforcement branch. So, I mean, you're not talking about people that aren't capable of robbing seven. And these people, you can put them in the middle of nowhere and they can take over a small city. I mean, not with two platoons or whatever, with two. With two squads. But I mean, they're very capable, competent individuals. So when you see like one cartel or another cartel, like the Cartel de Sinaloa start growing the way that they are, you have to wonder how much of that is allowed by a government. And I have to be careful saying that because I love Mexico. It's my adopted home. I love the Mexican people. They are noble, hard working, honest people, including all the Catholics that think I'm bashing them. On the other video, I'm not. Well, the Santa Muerte video, some of the Catholics thought that I was saying that every Catholic practices Santa Muerte. That was kind of my take on it. Starting a business can seem like a.

[A]

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[A]

Oh, no, I don't. I didn't get that sense at all.

[B]

Okay, good. I hope not, because I would never purposely disrespect the Catholic people. But when I do say that a cartel has very powerful enemies, then all of a sudden one of them just seems to just grow like an upstart on steroids and just starts taking over all kinds of territory, or even like that of isis, and they start growing. You have to wonder if the government, any government, not the Mexican government, not the American government, just any government, including the Venezuelan government, is complicit in that.

[A]

And why would a government want a car cell to grow?

[B]

Well, there's lots of reasons. Like Maduro right now, I don't think that his presidency is all that legitimate. I have no concerns, no qualms about saying that. In fact, if the American government offered me the opportunity right now to train And I'm getting older, but I still get in the gym to go down to Venezuela and unseat that. If it was a national security risk to either Mexico or the United States, I would definitely sign up.

[A]

You go to Venezuela.

[B]

I would definitely go to Venezuela to go get Maduro. 100%. I was looking at going to Africa to go get Joseph Kony over child soldiers.

[A]

I'm not going to let you go to Venezuela. Come on.

[B]

I would totally do it.

[A]

I can't let you do that.

[B]

I wanted to go guard fuel convoys. My wife's off frame, but I wanted to go guard fuel convoys in Afghanistan for like 100 to $200,000 a year. And she's like, I'm coming with. I'm like, no, I'm not going.

[A]

So we're going to start a GoFundMe just to keep you in America. All right, we're keeping you in New York.

[B]

No, but I believe in like stepping up and being a man and taking care of the people that, that are accountable to you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You have a wife and a son.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

They're. You are accountable to those people, Mark. And so we're accountable to everybody else too. At least in my belief system, being a man, I am responsible for the well being of all my. My fellow citizens, period.

[A]

Well, I mean, I'm curious. How do you. Do you know how the Venezuelan drug trafficking works?

[B]

Like, I have no clue.

[A]

Are they taking these drugs to Mexico? Are they?

[B]

Well, as far as that goes, I mean, internally, their country, I have no idea. The furthest I've ever gotten into Venezuela was talking with some people online once upon a time, but primarily about Angel Falls too. About BASE jumping off that or Hell yeah. Yeah, dude, because it's like something dope. So outside of Angel Falls in Venezuela, I have no idea about anything that goes on there. I do know that they have a lot of coca production and I have friends in Bolivia and Ecuador right now. Chris Falcone, shout out to you martial artist, that he's got his own thing going on. But there are a lot of coca plantations in South America throughout Ecuador, Bolivia, Colombia and Venezuela due to the climate. And I am 100 certain that those drugs are trafficked through Mexico in various forms. And so they are. They do have drug boats. But really what I think this is about is I think it's about Venezuelan.

[A]

Oil trying to provoke Maduro and trying to provoke the regime.

[B]

Oh, I don't even think it's about. About provoke. I think it's about we have the power to go over there and take over their whole country and want their oil reserves. They have the largest oil reserves on the planet right now, and the United States wants them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And also with Peter Thiel and all the billionaires and stuff like that, they're trying to inventory every natural resource on the planet so they can quantify it and then claim ownership over all of it. That's what the Palantir database systems all about. Social. All these things that people talk about. I don't want to get on a great big QAnon thing, but, I mean, there is a lot of truth to a lot of things that they say. Is it all true? No, obviously not. People do go too far with it. But Venezuela's got a lot of oil, and conveniently, we're over there. We know. Kim Jong Il, for example. When I was in college, I wrote a paper on Camp 22, which is a camp. It's a prison camp in North Korea.

[A]

And can we pull it up?

[B]

Yeah. There's a prison camp, Camp 22, in North Korea. And they execute women by impaling them with the shovel in their nether region. It's hardcore. So there's blatant human rights abuses, which is much worse than smuggling drugs. People want drugs, Mark. They purchase. Yeah. People don't want to be impaled with a shovel.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[B]

We're not over there because the money's not in it.

[A]

Oh, this is crazy. Camp 22.

[B]

Camp 22 is one of them. There are several, but Camp 22.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Click on human rights abuses. It's all right there. And so I would go through, and there's eyewitness testimony coming out of North Korea, and they're afraid to engage North Korea because they have weapons. But there are other countries where human rights abuse is going on. Myanmar, for example, and other places. We don't touch any of that. But we're concerned with 20 tons of cocaine in a fishing boat off the coast of Venezuela. Come on, man.

[A]

Well, I guess the Trump administration would say, like, this is directly affecting Americans. Like, what happens over there is wrong, but it doesn't affect.

[B]

It's been directly affecting Americans since the, what, 70s, 80s?

[A]

I mean, and they would say, like, yeah, they're bringing the drugs over. They're killing people in America. We got to stop this. That's what their line is.

[B]

The CIA used it to fund the wars. The Sandinista. So, I mean, they're not. They're not that concerned with cocaine, Mark.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I think it's about the oil.

[A]

Yeah, I think you're probably right about that. And I'm curious. The, like these, these people that were released, like some of them survived the blast and they were just, they were just let out.

[B]

Like they were, they were released. And curiously, obviously they didn't send them back to Venezuela, which would have been my first thought, was repatriate them.

[A]

Can we pull that up to see the people that were released?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah, they released people to Ecuador when they blew up the boat. They released them. And if these people are legitimately and getting into due process, they've just recently had Tennessee state troopers pulling people over, arresting them right here in the United States knowing that they're not drunk because they have a quota system. It just came out in the, in the news.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Arresting innocent Americans because they have to meet their quota system, even though they know that they're not under the influence or inebriated in any way. Putting these honest, hard working American people in jail for something they didn't do. We as a country really need to. He's pulling this up. So I'm looking at this. Sorry, guys.

[A]

All good.

[B]

But anyways, we as a country need to realize that due process exists for a reason. And I didn't know it when I started law school. I'm like, due process. The guy's sitting there, he has a weapon in his hand. Yeah, that's like my mentality. And it's. Yeah, it's a knuckle dragging mentality. I totally get it.

[A]

But I think it's a very human thing. It's like, oh, I saw this guy, know, rob a bank. I saw with my own eyes, we got to get rid of this guy. Like it's a very human thing. It's like you did something wrong, you got to go. But in the country of laws, you would hope that this idea of due process holds up.

[B]

You have to. You, it has to hold up. And you were just in Portland. My wife and I just saw this today in Portland. Every car, nine out of ten of those cars are going to stop for pedestrians. Here in New York, I watched three cars go right by it. But it's the same country. And the point being is that the mentality of people in different areas of the country is different.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

And even though they're different, we're all governed by one set of laws which supposedly comes from the Constitution. Even though the Constitution isn't followed because they do have constitution free zones or sometimes blatantly don't follow it. Such as arresting innocent people that aren't under the influence.

[A]

Like, so wait, there's Constitution free zones?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you mean by that?

[B]

All around the border. Like within 25 miles of any area of the border. They are allowed, for example, to suspend your fourth amendment rights, pull you over and ask if you're a citizen, Stuff like that. It's completely unconstitutional. But because it's within proximity to the.

[A]

U.S. border, oh, they just waive it.

[B]

When I was a kid, that did not exist. And I'm a little bit older than you and so, yeah, I remember when that came into being. And now they just suspend it within the 25 miles of the border and they can pull anybody over that they want. Ask anybody they want. Whether or not. Right there, nearly two out of three people live within the 100 mile border zone.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So it's a thing. So the Constitution is something that they're getting away from.

[A]

Where is this from here? Come on, scroll down. Christos, what's this article?

[B]

Aclu. American Civil Liberties Union.

[A]

I mean, that's. That's all of Florida. What the.

[B]

Yeah, it's the entire state of Florida.

[A]

What the hell?

[B]

So what I'm getting at is I got involved with the law in Mexico out of just dumb luck. When my general retired, I was like really trying to like wanting to do the right thing with like helping people and do the law, looking for something to do because I'd gotten my dream job. And then all of a sudden my dream job's gone. So I start going to law school. And I think that more Americans need to get rid of the apathy that they have. Because apathy breeds ignorance. It breeds an ambience that's rife with the ability be corrupt because people just aren't paying attention to it. They've got their wealth, they just don't care. They don't care. And they need to. Because this system of laws that we have in a country that has lots of different groups of people in it with different perspectives is what governs all of us. And if we don't want to become a third world country, we better be concerned whether or not we're blowing up Venezuelans off the coast of, I don't know, Trinidad and Tobago with their boat. Just because we saw something, we're okay with it because we saw a picture someone uploaded. You could upload load. I did really bad in school this semester. I did. I barely passed my class. And I program and so I can make a computer program that says Abraham Lincoln was the first president, upload it and stuff like that. And if a million people read it, it's true.

[A]

Yeah, you can manipulate people's thoughts 100%.

[B]

So when they upload a picture or whatever, it's not something that they saw firsthand. And all of a sudden they're okay with government excess. I'm not against justice. I'm not against hardball justice. Like, if you break into someone's home, you get what you get. I'm totally that way. But people need to have their day in court. They need to have the opportunity to confront their accusers. They need to have all these things that you learn in school. And I wasn't aware of any of it. And so I just, like, signed off on everything. And I think a lot of people in the United States are doing that with the Venezuelan boats. Are they trafficking cocaine? A thousand percent. They still need to have their day in court. And the ones that aren't trafficking cocaine don't deserve to be shot out of the water, then released. Ecuador a thousand miles from their home.

[A]

Could you just pull up the article? The. I think the images were a little tricky, but if you just go, like, just. Yeah, go to. Just regular old Google. Get off these images. But yeah, I'm so curious about people. I didn't hear about people that, like, survived these attacks.

[B]

They survived the attacks and released them.

[A]

In Ecuador, which is just so strange to me.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's really. It's a thing.

[A]

Oh, that's wild.

[B]

I mean. Or you can go. Just go to look for the survivors. He survived the U.S. military boat. Click that.

[A]

Click that CNN one right there. Yeah. What is this? Yeah, we agree to all that. I mean, crazy. Okay, so scroll down a little bit.

[B]

His family says he's a fisherman in the sea. I mean, I, like, survived.

[A]

He survived last. Last week's strike in the Caribbean against a submarine going to the United States. There were survivors returned by the US to their countries of origin. Trump described them as terrorists. Keeps rolling. I mean, bizarre. I mean, why were they returned if.

[B]

They were by Ecuadorian? What's that? She still hasn't heard from her brother since he was released by Ecuadorian authorities this week after returning home.

[A]

And then scroll down. Then the general says that the authorities have no information that he committed a crime in Ecuadorian territory. He has a US Criminal record. He'd been arrested for smuggling drugs. But why was he released? That just seems so bizarre. It's like, if you. Like, yeah, if the idea is that these guys are criminals, why would you.

[B]

Release someone that was guilty of a crime that you're down there.

[A]

What's up guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I have a story to tell you. Fun fact, after you have a child, your testosterone naturally goes down. It's a way for you to like become like more empathetic and more in touch and like protect your kid and stuff. And I didn't really believe that. But then I had a baby like a year ago and I started to feel it around. Like 3 o' clock would roll around and I would get more tired. I wasn't really sleeping that great because we just had a baby. And I was like drinking more coffee and I started getting anxious and I was like, this is not working. I was like, should I just do trt? Like, I know a lot of guys in the hit like 30, 40, they're just ripping TRT. So looking into it, I was like, ah, it affects your fertility. I might want to have some more kids. So I was like, all right, there must be a way I can do this that's more natural and just like support my testosterone. So I hit my buddy David who does the ads, and I was like, is there anyone that's out out there doing any of this kind of stuff? And he was like, oh, you should check out Mars Men, Mars Men. Right here is a natural testosterone booster. This is going to just basically support your testosterone using a bunch of supplements and natural ingredients that are going to make your testosterone be what it's supposed to be. Okay, don't even think about TRT because again, it can be overkill. You're going to be injecting your body and it can also shut down your body's like natural production of testosterone. But using this stuff, Tongat, ali, shilajit, vitamin D, zinc, boron, all the natural stuff that is going to be supporting your healthy T levels and helping your stamina and giving you more energy throughout the day. And honestly, it's great. I've only been trying it for a couple weeks now and I want to do a before and after testosterone test and see how much more my testosterone boosted. 91% of guys reported feeling higher energy. And the reviews on this are absolutely amazing. It's made in the USA third party tested and there is a 90 day money back guarantee. So there's literally no risk. You can try it for, you know, three months and if it's not for you, they will get you your money back. And for a limited time, the listeners of this program, this is a crazy deal. By the way, most brands don't do this. You're going to get 60% off for life and three free gifts. When you use the code camp@ Mengotomars.com that is Men M E N go to Mars M A R S and use the code camp at checkout. And after your purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please say that you heard about them from Camp Gagnon, that we sent you there. It really helps us out. Mars Men is great. It is a natural support for your testosterone. Look, you can buy all of these, you know, supplements separately or you can just go to Mars Men and get it all in one case. Now let's get back to the show.

[B]

Plus, it's also convenient, you know, I've had an issue with ever since Osama bin Laden's body being dumped at sea.

[A]

Yeah, that's bizarre.

[B]

You have the most wanted person in the entire world and you've been routinely killing their families and stuff like that. But all of a sudden you're concerned with disrespecting the Islamic community as a whole, which I get. You shouldn't do and provoke people, but blowing up them, blowing them up in their homes and killing their families is arguably disrespectful. So now you're concerned with where you're going to get rid of this guy's body. You dump them out at sea. All the proof of that is just non existent. And you know what people are asking me all the time since I've become a public figure, because I'm starting to do that. Prove it. So, okay, I'll prove it. Show up. I'll show you my documents, what I got, they have this guy and they put him on a boat in the middle of the ocean and dump them, bury them at sea. They have these guys that are these cocaine running boats. But when you blow up a boat, guess where all the waters, where all the evidence goes?

[A]

It. Yeah. To the bottom of the ocean.

[B]

To the bottom of the ocean. So you have zero evidence again that these guys are actually smuggling drugs. If they are smuggling drugs, great, no problem. Put them in court, stick them in prison for 30 years or whatever you're going to do. But you're not doing that. And when we talk about having a legal system in this country, you talk about the presumption of innocence. And people don't understand the importance of that until they have charges levied against them.

[A]

Right.

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[A]

Per month when network is busy. See terms I think it's also a lot of like shock and awe. Like they're trying to do something that's so egregious to discourage anyone else from even thinking about doing it. Because if you're like oh I might go to prison, da da da da da. But if you're like oh I might get hit with a missile out of the sky, I think there's a lot of other drug traffickers that are like I'm not going to even attempt to deal with.

[B]

That's true. But you know what I would do if I was a drug smuggler?

[A]

What's that?

[B]

And they had those type of things. I would find ways to manipulate people and their families with the threat of violence and stuff like that and get them to do my dirty work for me like trafficking like drug mules, trafficking stuff across the border, that's not the cartels themselves doing that, right?

[A]

That's an 18 year old kid in Venezuela. They're like, hey, you got to do this.

[B]

You do this or I'm going to harm your family. You do this and I'll pay you a thousand. They're not going to get their hands dirty themselves. And I mean this has been going on forever. So when they do kill these people, a lot of times the people that are involved in a lot of that, including with cartel people in Mexico, a lot of the people that the cartel in Mexico get to work for them are people that actually traversing the Mexican Republic they kidnap them, they force them to go to work with for them. So this person might even be doing that just to survive. In fact, I've been thinking about what I want to do with my channel now that I'm getting it going. And I know people that have been coming across Mexico. Just horrible treatment I've spoken about before. A lot of the people that the cartel or these criminals get their hands on don't even want to be involved in that.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's a great point. Actually that's something I didn't really consider because you look at these guys on these boats with drugs and let's say they have drugs on the boat, they're drug smuggling. You assume like, oh, these are evil cartel guys. But just to your point, they might just be a 19 year old kid and the cartel taps them and says, hey, we're going to kill your whole family if you don't take these drugs 100%.

[B]

That does happen.

[A]

The United States government may be shooting missiles at boats full of people that.

[B]

Don'T even want to be there.

[A]

Yeah. That are basically victims, which is why.

[B]

The presumption of innocence is important. And then not only that, but when you kill a whole group of people, you're automatically missing out. We started off talking about waterborne and torture when if people were tortured or if people were killed and you're applying enough pain or you're removing them, they're consciously from the face of the earth, you are losing the opportunity to glean any information from them at all. Exactly.

[A]

Right. Yeah. If you were to, if you were to capture these guys, bring them in and say, hey, what's your deal? I was, I was forced to do this. I didn't want to do this. I can give you information on the people that made me do this.

[B]

Right. That would be a much more effective way to fight that thing. But that's not what we're doing. We're blowing up a couple fishing boats. We're not blowing up a cocaine manufacturing plant deep in Venezuela. We're blowing up indiscriminate six people. Even if you were to take a team of Navy SEALs, the best trained military person in the world, and you were to unalive them in a fishing boat, that's a very capable, competent group of individuals that are sent by the most powerful government in the world to go take care of whatever, there's still only so much those people can do. But now reduce that to six people on a fishing boat off the coast of Venezuela. How much of a den are you really making. You're trying to generate publicity for another cause. It's not 6 kg or 20 kg of cocaine in a fishing boat off a little dinghy off the coast of Venezuela. It's not.

[A]

It. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And I think due process, even within the United States, is super important. Because, like, I'm curious if you've seen the. The articles of cartel members saying, oh, we will give you money if you're able to kill ICE agents. Have you seen that?

[B]

I have seen that.

[A]

Can you pull up that article? Yeah. It's a pretty wild thing. I'm curious, like, you know, having dealt with the cartel so intimately, what do you think of those threats?

[B]

I think that those bounties, rather. I think that they're valid. I do think that they're valid. I do think that there's some truth with it. Like, you know, you know exactly where I live, and, you know, I live right by DHS in Portland. I'm right down. And so anyways, you'll have Naomi coming over for a photo shoot with the chicken guy that was online. They're trying to portray or present something a certain way.

[A]

Who's Naomi?

[B]

The DH or DHS director or the Director of Intelligence that went over there, and she's taking a photo shoot.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

And with the chicken suit guy. And they're trying to portray it a certain way.

[A]

Christy Noem.

[B]

Yeah. Christy Noem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I always mess up her last name. So they're doing a. Yeah, that's her. So she's up on top of the ice building. I can. I look right at it from my house. That black thing that's in front of my. My front yard, I can see it right from. So they're trying to portray it a certain way, and there's a lot of people that do stuff about that. But to stay on point, what we're fed online is oftentimes vastly different from the reality of things. And even depending on what time or when and where, when we're talking about these people offering bounties to take out dhs, homeland officials, there probably is some validity to it. But when you do that, or if you were to do that, the amount of heat that you would be taking down on you, you would now warrant the full weight of the United States military and judicial system coming after you. And is that something that you really want to do? It's not an effective way of doing business.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So if they did do that, and there are some hotheads that would do that, I wor. Worry about when I go home and when my wife is home, whether or not we're going to have visitors just based off of what I'm talking about on YouTube, they're not going to like it. October 25th, there was just another journalist that was killed in Mexico because she portrayed the cartels in Sinaloa and Mazatlan. Just a week ago, she portrayed the cartels in a negative light and spoke about them disrespectfully. Since 2000, there's been 170 journalists killed. And like, no, 30 journalists killed something. Just 200 total. Some are missing and some were just outright murdered. Do they really want to do that to government officials and bring down. Because now you're just begging for a violent response from the government or even several governments. So I disagree. The level of how much they. That's plausible.

[A]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, how many cartel members do you think are in the United States right now or people affiliated with the cartel? Do you think? It's. I mean, I, I think, you know, the right wing is saying, like, oh, there's a ton. We're overrun with cartel members.

[B]

There are some. There are some. And it's weird that you'd bring that up because there's a guy, Enrique, I don't want to mess up his last name. He was a former shot caller of the Mexican mafia in the California prison system. And I just reached out to him because I wanted to do an interview with him. And talking about that, if you have any understanding about California prison gangs, it's one of the most violent prison system in the entire United States. There were cartel members in the prison system and the Mexican mafia told them that, hey, we have the ability to confront you here on our soil. But they are present to the fact that they had to confront these guys to begin with. So they've been here for a long time. Given the proximity of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Texas, that entire borders, I want to say it's probably 1200 miles, something like that long. They've been crossing that thing for decades. And they've had families crossing that. They've had co workers that crossed it. So the amount of influence that the cartel is able to wield in this country is just crazy. Whether technically or officially cartel members or not. I wanted to say something about that. When you see. The first time I saw a cartel member after the first night on patrol, there was something. I don't talk about that night, but the first time like I saw. When it was just like a little. Itty bitty skinny person. I'm like, there's no way this guy's cartel can't be. And then you go into prison and you do inspections and then I've seen other ones when we're like searching their cells. And there was one guy that had like a neck like a bull, man. You like put your hand on your neck so you have to hold them against the wall and you put your hand there to detect any movement or anything, which is why you have your hand on them and they're facing the wall. But this guy's just a muscle and sinu and his neck was just like crazy strong. Like I remember thinking, man, if this guy was on you, it's curtains.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then I've seen other ones that looked like they ought to be at home watching Big Bird with their nothing. I'm not being disrespectful. That's an honest perspective about it. And they're definitely going to watch us and they know what I'm saying. And any law enforcement member or military member in Mexico is going to know that it's true too. So when you talk about cartel members here in the United States, there's such a wide array of what that could potentially be. Is it someone in an illegal pot grow, someone in a legal pot grown, a state that's legalized marijuana, doing like a theft ring. Right.

[A]

An enforcer. There's so many different types.

[B]

Intelligence gathering.

[A]

Right.

[B]

There are a lot of aspects to that. So intelligence gathering. For example, if they really wanted to take out DHS or. Ah, you know what, I'm glad you brought this up because this has been bugging me to this subject. Glenn brought it up the other day.

[A]

Glenn Beck?

[B]

Yeah, Glenn Beck. He asked me about it. So I've been thinking about this subject in particular now for about a week longer, but really this last week I've been focusing on it. So if you were to go out and actively pursue that $50,000 isn't that much money. It's life changing money in Mexico. Here in the United States, it's a down payment or half of a half an suv, depending on what you drive. Yeah, it's not a lot of money. And you're looking at the death sentence on a federal level. You're going to die. So is it really true that they're offering $50,000? What would you have to do to facilitate that? First you have to gather intelligence on anyone that's working for any type of, of federal agency that you're going to target, whether it's Judges, courthouses, you'd have to. I would probably start monitoring the parking structures and stuff like that. And I'm not condoning any of this. I'm just talking about this from an operational standpoint, what you would do. And the first thing that you have to do is collect intel because you're not going down to 711 to find these guys walking out. So you would start monitoring their facilities, their vehicles, their movements, this type of thing. If you're more sophisticated, you get into signal intelligence and stuff like that, that these type of cartel members aren't going to be someone that's readily apparent. They're going to look like people that have been to school because they have. Or they're going to be ex government people that have been purchased by the other side, which happens. So when we talk about cartel members in the United States, it really depends on who and what. And there's so many. Because a lot of times people think cartel. They're thinking of some Mexican with a gun in the back of a truck. Because that's what's portrayed in the news. It's so much more. More sophisticated that. And I've been a fan of yours for quite a while. So I've watched a lot of the people, my own colleagues, Ed and other people that are very knowledgeable on a lot of things talk about this. And most of the time when people are talking about or even federal agent people that have worked for the FBI, the Marshal Service, when they're talking about cartel people, Fernando Puentes, you start thinking about people with tattoos, drugs and stuff like that. Nothing against Fernando, probably a great guy, I don't know him. But when you talk about the totality of what really is cartel, you're talking about maybe even someone as high as a presidential office that's being purchased or compromised by people that are paying the politicians 400000 pesos a month.

[A]

So I mean, and these are politicians in Mexico, right?

[B]

This is all stuff that's gone on. It's Border Patrol agents right now. The Border Patrol just got done wrapping up an investigation where something like. I looked it up the other day. It was something like some 100, some odd Border Patrol agents have been busted for being corrupt.

[A]

US Border Patrol.

[B]

US Border Patrol. So it's not just the CIA and their cocaine in the 80s with Ricky Ross and the Sandinistas. It's not. It's such a huge problem. When you talk about cartels and corruption and their operational capability or status in the United States. It's huge because it's not just Mexican nationals. It's not just law enforcement officials, it's politicians. It's so intertwined that it's just crazy. Plus you have an entire industry that's being based off of that. All the law enforcement, military presence that gets dedicated that all the equipment, the manufacturers of that equipment. In fact, I'm making my money right now off of, of maybe a probable war with China. And I'm not going to get into specifics of what I do, but I myself pay my own rent based on a potential threat from China right now and I make pretty decent money. So we're talking about a huge industry dedicated that the military industrial complex. Yeah, here we go. How many? Christos, you can talk.

[A]

So, yeah, we got us Border patrol agents, customs officers are arrested and prosecuted for corruption. So 20, May, 2025, we had three CBP officers that were indicted for accepting thousands of dollars in bribes to allow vehicles with undocumented individuals to enter the US without inspection.

[B]

Receiving over 700,000 in bribes. Oh, wow, right there. El PASO. Guilty plea, 2025, October this month. So, I mean, it's not like a little thing. Mark, mark.

[A]

700. $700,000 in bribes to bring in 250 migrants and 32 kilograms of cocaine.

[B]

And you're blowing up. I mean, if we do a calculation on the volume of how much a kilo of cocaine takes up and we figure out the size of those fishing boats and how much horsepower they got, what the buoyancy is, how many kilos of cocaine were in these little fishing boats and they're blowing that out of the water. But you got someone right here at home bringing in 32 keys right there.

[A]

Yeah. And these are just the guys we caught.

[B]

And this is the guy that swore that he would uphold the Constitution and take care. I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're just the guys that we caught. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, yeah. Who knows how many others. I mean, seven, seven hundred thousand dollars for a border patrol guy. You can see that being.

[B]

It's a lot more than $50,000 for a DHS. I mean, where would you go to make your money?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, be a cartel mule or go take out a DHS official and risk death. I mean, so there's. I like questioning things because, you know, really I was talking about the other day, like being small and cowardly in my own life because a lot of times I had, when I was growing up, I was not the way I am now. I mean, I had to go through a lot of things. And when I transitioned from carrying a weapon for a living to going to law school. And I would look at my. No disrespect for my professors, but I would look at them like, how can you perceive the world this way? There's nothing wrong with looking at all the facts and coming to an educated opinion on any subject. In fact, I've read the. The Quran twice to make sure that I got it down. The Gospel according to Buddha. I've read that your religion camp. I watch it all the time because I learned things. And then I can use that to either solidify or discard that in Spanish, like because of. What the hell is his name? Name? Descartes. Philosopher.

[A]

Descartes.

[B]

Yeah. So Descartes Descartar in Spanish means to toss out. And that was because of his philosophy of getting rid of things. So you look at all the information. When you're blowing people out of the boats off the coast of Trinidad or some Caribbean island, you're not getting the information that you need to effectively tackle this problem.

[A]

And then did you see this thing with Bukele in El Salvador?

[B]

Yeah, naive Bukele.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

N A, Y, I B. Is it Naib or Nayib?

[A]

Oh, I'm not sure. I was.

[B]

I don't want to dis. I don't want to disrespect.

[A]

That's why I just go with the last name I can know how to pronounce.

[B]

I have seen that with.

[A]

He had a thing with Marco Rubio recently that was really interesting.

[B]

Did not see that.

[A]

So this was. If you could pull that up. So basically I don't know the exact details. I just read an article, so I hope I get this mostly correct. But basically there was a, like a prisoner swap thing that happened where there were these guys that were detained by the U.S. they were in custody of the U.S. and they basically, according to this article I read, made some connection between Bukele's cabinet and people close to his inner circle within his government and MS.13. And these guys basically kind of like said, yeah, these guys were a part of MS.13. They're connected to a gang, right? And then Bukele basically made a deal to accept prisoners into El Salvador only if these like 13 guys were released back in El Salvador, man. And Mark. And they're in like, U.S. protection, right? Because they're informants. And as a part of the deal, I think some of these guys are going back, like they're going in front of a judge right now to decide whether or not. And they're basically saying, if you send us back to El Salvador, they're going to kill us.

[B]

Right. And they are. They will.

[A]

They will.

[B]

100%.

[A]

So, yeah, okay, this is. Multiple agreements were struck to fight waves of mass immigration destabilizing the region. Bukele agreed to take back all Salvadorian ms.13 gang members who were in the United States unlawfully. He promised to accept and incarcerate the migrants, the violent illegal immigrants of trend Aragua. But this isn't the swap, I don't think.

[B]

Well, just briefly on that. First of all, there are dissenting judges and dissenting opinions all the time. Time. And so when we're talking about whether or not someone deserves due process in the United States, we have to determine amongst ourselves, because this is our country. Does or will our entire justice system, including with something that's not a criminal offense. And being in the United States illegally isn't technically a criminal offense. It's a civil offense. I read that somewhere. I don't want to confuse or throw something out there, but there is some discussion about whether or not it's even a crime to be here illegally if you were allowed legal access or entrance to the. To the United States. But let's just say, worst case scenario, someone did come in legally. Do they deserve due process in their day in court here in an American court, illegally, Illegally? If they came in illegally?

[A]

I think so, yeah.

[B]

I think, I think that people. It's going to cost us a lot of money, but I think that people do need to have their day in court just to determine what the facts of the case are.

[A]

Well, like, how do you prove that someone came in illegally?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Like, are they illegal? Do they have. Are they a refugee?

[B]

Do they have green card child molesters? I know this is a controversial topic, but. And I hate them. I can't stand them. In fact, I had a stepdad that tried to molest me as a kid. He didn't get very far, but it was terrifying. That guy deserves his day in court. Because otherwise you're allowed to point a finger at anybody and without proving your case and without them having the constitutional right, Mark, to confront their accuser in a court of law in front of a jury of their peers. If we just say that you're allowed to accuse somebody and send them off to El Salvador because you said they were illegal. Prove it if what you're saying is true. True. I've always liked to say the truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend the lion. You just set it free and it'll defend itself and the truth will bear out Whatever it is, if you present that in a court of law and the guy is send them back. Yeah, but you have to prove it first. So that's my standpoint on that. Do I think that we ought to be sending American citizens or other things that I've seen online to El Salvador? Not unless you're willing to do it to yourself would be my judgment on that. Because when you protect someone judicially, you're protecting yourself at the same time. A lot of people lose sight of that.

[A]

What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because you know what time it is. It's time to level up. And Bluechew just dropped something wild. Okay? Bluechew's been rocking with us from the beginning, so of course, we have to rock, pun intended. With them, all right? And what they've just done is change the game. All right, this is next level gold metal energy. This is Blue Chew gold. If you've never heard of it, this is the newest innovation from the number one chewable Ed brand. All right? This isn't the little blue pill that your grandpa used. This is the four in one beast that is setting the gold standard for performance. We're talking two ingredients to keep the good times rolling, okay? Mixed with apomorphine and oxytocin that are going to turn up the arousal and the connections in your brain, as well as the ingredients to keep the blood flow, to keep everything pumping, okay? Bluechew gold dissolves in your tongue and works in as little as 15 minutes. And that means you're going to be rocking quicker and staying in the game longer. Let me just say that's how we put this tent up every single episode. We give Christos a bluechew, and you know what? We have this tent rocking all year round, okay? That's what it takes. Now, I recommend this in a, you know, a married, Christian relationship, but you know what? You guys can do whatever you want. Bluechew is the ultimate service to get you these chewables to your door in a discreet way to keep the bedroom on fire. We have a special deal for the listeners of this program. You're going to get 10% off your first month of Blue Chew Gold if you use the code GAGNON G a G n o n. That's promo code GAGNON G a g n o n. You can visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. And thank you so much to Bluechew for keeping the lights on and making this show possible. Now let's get back to it. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I gotta tell you a story. Imagine you're sitting in your house. It's cold outside. It's a little snowy. And you're like, man, I just want a panini. So you go and you order it, you know, from Doordash or something like that. And it never gets to you. You're looking at the app, you're like, dude, it's been four hours. Where's my panini? You're calling? No one answers. Well, this is a true story that happened. There was a woman, a client that was working as a doordash driver, and she slipped and fell on an icy walkway outside of a Panera Bread in Fort Wayne, Indiana. She breaks her elbow, which leads to surgery and hardware having to get inserted into her arm. She can't work. And originally, you know, she sues Panera. And Panera's like, okay, we'll give you like 125,000. But then the good people over at Morgan and Morgan fought for her and got her the million dollar verdict that she deserved. Yes. If you never heard of them, Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. Yes. And they are that way for a reason. They've been fighting for the people for over 35 years. Now, I'll be honest. If I ordered, you know, a panini and the woman gets paid a million bucks because she slipped, I mean, it's a tragic thing to happen, of course, but I deserve a little bit of that. I. I should get a cut at least, right? As I'm the one that ordered the panini. If I never ordered that panini, she never would have slipped, never got a million bucks, which obviously she deserved. You know what I mean? But maybe next time she gets a million and million point one, I can get a cool 100,000 out of that, regardless. All I'm saying is if you're ever injured and you are looking to get the money that you deserved, the compensation that is entitled to from your injuries, Morgan and Morgan could be the way to go. Hiring the wrong law firm can be disastrous. I mean, you can be locked up in litigation. It's a nightmare. But hiring the right law firm could substantially increase your settlement. And with Morgan and Morgan, it's easy to get started. Their fee is $0 unless they win. That's right. Their fee is free. Unless they win your case, you don't pay zero. You pay zero cents unless they win your case. You can visit forthepeople.com gagnon g a g n o n that is f o r the people.com or dial pound law. That's pound 529 from your cell phone. That's for the people.com gagnon. Or click the link in the description below. And thank you so much to the good folks over at Morgan and Morgan for sponsoring this program and making this show possible with this paid advertisement. Let's get back to the show. I'm curious, has it been strange for you seeing the level of deportations that have been going on within the United States? As someone that one loves this country, I'm sure wants to have, you know, some semblance of a secure border, but at the same time has a deep love and passion for Mexico and the Mexican people.

[B]

My wife's Mexican.

[A]

Yeah. So has it been tricky for you?

[B]

I did my wife's visa paperwork to get her here. I'm deeply in love with my wife. I deeply love people in Mexico and I deeply love this country so much that I went down whether they let me enlist or not. I went down seven times to go write a blank check to this country. I am very much mom pie and apple pie. It bothers me the level of deportations that we're seeing for several reasons. You love history. You do. Your religion camp. I love history, too. This country, whether we like it or not, has been conquered by both Spanish and English settlers. It's also been, I don't want to say conquered because there's been five distinct waves of migration that have come over from Asia through the berings of and been populated that way. There may even be Solutrean and Clovis population going back 25,000 years from Europe. So there's a lot of really controversial information when it comes to the history of this country, this geographic piece of land that we're on. Mexicans and Americans have lived in this country for so long that we need to be able to cohabitate successfully. And you can't have an open border because it would destroy economies. Sure, there's a lot of reasons to have that, but just to treat people inhumanely and be like, we're going to yank a boy out of his home or whatever that had nothing to do with coming here. Or his parents were in Mexico trying to find something to eat, couldn't get a job more forced to come or forced to leave, flee Mexico because of cartel violence. And there was a city in northern Mexico where the cartel went in. Not a city of town. Town. They went in. They killed everybody in this entire town. And if you or myself, as a Mexican citizen of that town, we're going to sit there and know that everyone has been executed. Your wife, your children, your cousins, your brothers, your parents. Are you going to stay there waiting for permission? Of course not. No, no, no, no way. So I think that there is a way. And then you know who the blame and guilt of all this falls squarely on the policymakers and the business people that a don't govern this effectively even though they have access to trillions of dollars. Our debt, national debt, just went up another trillion recently and have not effectively made a solution to this. And they're the experts because this is what they get paid to do. Or the people that are in businesses that employ people illegally, they're not ever going after those people, but they'll go after Jose selling oranges on the side of a freeway. I'm against it, man. Yeah, it's, it's not humane. I think that they should come up with a guest worker program like they had during World War II where they would invite people in during the 50s to work on a visa that they're allowed to be here and work. I have no problem with someone going out and getting food. But, but the policymakers ought to be ashamed of themselves, Republican and Democrat, both of them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because this is completely wholly their, their responsibility and they've dropped the ball with it 100%. Yeah.

[A]

It just seems so strange, but it feels like we're in like this weird, like, like false dichotomy where either you have an open border and anyone can come through as much as they want, you can have caravans of anyone with, you know, any type of criminal history coming into the country or you have to deport an 8 year old kid that's with his parents at school or something like that.

[B]

Well, I think that they, and it's.

[A]

Like there's got to be some way to find some type of common middle ground.

[B]

There is a middle ground. But they allow this to happen, to grow their own power, this same government. Because I just got into a small debate earlier about the FBI and Comey and them talking about it's the Biden administration. No, it's not the Biden administration. You have 20 and 30 year career agents that have been at this agency. They're are in positions of power with agents under them and they are allowing this. They are shooting off political tests or text against Trump and other people. But this same government stays in power. And I've talked about, I saw someone the other day talking about really the CIA and the FBI just have to. When they come into an administration that's not in line with what they want to do, all they have to do is ride out to weather the storm. Until that president's gone, another one that's more favorable comes in, and they can continue business as usual. So when we talk about whether or not Biden or Trump or Bush or Clinton, a president allows something to go on, it's not true. It's the Congress and the agencies themselves, primarily the Senate, because they're allowed to be there forever. And they just allow this problem to exacerbate itself. And at every turn, it's always. You saw it with 9, 11, you saw it with COVID you're seeing it with immigration. It's always the government granting itself more power through creating a problem, exacerbating that problem, then being like, okay, we're here to fix it, even though you're the one that created the problem to begin with, no party politics in it. It's the same thing by both sides.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. It's a shame when just, you know, innocent people are, you know, victims of these political games in order to consolidate power.

[B]

That's. That's completely.

[A]

After 9, 11, there's Muslims that are getting, you know, pulled aside. It's always interrogated or migrants or whatever else.

[B]

Well, it's always a real human being at the end of that. That's not a powerful person that's paying the price. Them and their family and. I mean, I love New York. In fact, I'm talking to my wife. I would love to live here again.

[A]

She's not so sure about it.

[B]

She's not so sure. She doesn't like to drive. She gets. She gets afraid going to the park.

[A]

The Mexican food here is not good. I'll be honest.

[B]

No.

[A]

But I don't know if you'll enjoy it. The halal car slap.

[B]

Yeah. The hero sandwiches and stuff like that. I got no problem with that guy selling Halal's and. And Chicago hot dogs or whatever off a hot dog cart, man.

[A]

You can't do. You can't do Chicago hot dogs.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

And no Detroit deep dish either. I'm, like, so over this. Like, deep dish pizza is terrible.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Yeah. I don't stand by that.

[B]

Come on, man.

[A]

We can deport them. I think we can get them out of here. Okay. I stand by that. Oh, man, we got to get them out of here immediately. Deep dishes.

[B]

I gotta have my hot dogs. Dude.

[A]

Hot dogs. Okay. We can make a concession but no.

[B]

But that guy that's selling those. And I mean, I'm not saying that every immigrant does that, but a lot do. There's a real family and a real person and real children attached to the other side of that. And from a Christian perspective, because I am. And I mess up a lot. I yell at other drivers sometimes I'm snappy with my wife, and I shouldn't do that. But I should measure other people as human beings to begin with, because that's what I'm commanded to do. And other people are going to make up their mind and do what they want. But you asked me kind of what my take on the entire jurisprudence thing is or that. That I've got a book. It tells me everything I get to do, I have to do. And I don't get to pick and choose. It says, you have to respect your wife. And so when I snap at her more than I should because she's being irritating, and sometimes she is, and sometimes I am, I'm in the wrong, period. I don't get to pick and choose. And I think that a lot of people in a fast food society where we have dope cars, I drive like an $85,000 truck. Man, I love that truck. Truck.

[A]

It's a nice truck. I wrote in it.

[B]

It's a nice truck. But that's not my whole existence. And my whole existence better be based on what's in that book. If I subscribe to Being a Christian, and I know that this is still a predominantly Christian country. So when people are out there watching our podcast, I would just. I don't care what your political party is. I would just ask you to examine your own internal beliefs and then decide what your opinion is going to be. Because that's what mine is.

[A]

Yeah, no, I think that's fair. I think about this video. The. Have you seen the. The drug submarine that gets boarded?

[B]

I did.

[A]

Can we pull that up? This is like the sickest video ever, man.

[B]

Full disclosure. Ah, The Coast Guard. I love them. They don't get the credit that they deserve. And I worked in the Bering Sea for several years, and I've heard distress calls go out where someone's been overboard in the bearing sea in Alaska. Yeah, I spent. Nicole, if you see this, you're. You're probably one of the reasons why I wound up there. But ex girlfriend, I was going to go up there and make a gazillion dollars, but I went up there and I would hear people that are in the middle of the Bering Sea getting Fallen over and having captains radio for help in the Coast Guard. These guys go out there and rescue people from frigid waters diving into that same water, and they're do not get the respect that they deserve. And at the same time, I kind of clown them as a military force because it's not the military either.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So I get it. Respect. And they don't get the respect that they deserve.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

I'm going to say that.

[A]

That's true. But this video, I think about in. In light.

[B]

Okay, first of all, he's saying it incorrectly. He's saying, stop your boat. But he. He should be saying parents say like stop or the thing and say.

[A]

I mean, can they even hear him?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No, you're not. You can't hear it.

[A]

But I guess you probably have to say that or something just on some legal stuff.

[B]

But I do. You know what? I love his commitment when he jumps on top of this thing, man.

[A]

But in light of like, the missile strikes, I'm like, we could just do this. Right, right. Like, look how sick this is.

[B]

Well, you can. I love that this guy gets on there, man. Respect. And no, they can't hear them because they're all. They're sub. They're 3/4 submerged. With all the. I'm going to say this. A lot of people that have watched this. I mean, I spent several years on fishing boats and crab boats in the Bering Sea. When you work on one of those boats, there are huge diesel engines that are propelling these things, and they are so loud that you can't hear a word. You can't hear a word. You have to be there for months to get used to it, to where you can sleep.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah, it's that loud. And they're not small engines. I've worked on ones that have had huge Rolls Royce engines that you need like an overhead crane bigger than the ones that I have in my basement to pull just the head off of it. So, no, these people aren't hearing a word that he's saying.

[A]

I mean, but just seeing how we're able to take these guys, detain them, get information, seize whatever drugs they're carrying. It just seems like a much more effective strategy in terms of U.S. defense.

[B]

Well, totally. But not only that. Hey, I like when I was living in San Francisco, they have a Coast Guard station there, and you can see the. Their ships or their vessels that they have there. And they've got. Got huge. I don't know what they are 50 millimeter cannons on there. Or something like that and machine guns. So they could totally make the noise. Or if we're talking about fishing vessels, they could fire bow shots and stuff like that without incurring any damage. No one's going to get hurt. They don't have to blow them out of the water with a hell file hellfire missile. I don't know. That's something else. Who's blowing these vessels out of the water? Is it the coast guard?

[A]

I have no idea. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

See, this is a good.

[A]

Yeah. Can we, can we look that up?

[B]

Well, no, this is a very important detail because one of the primary problems I have with the military in the street as we have in Mexico is once the military is allowed to come in the street in the United States, they're going to stay there, they're going to remain there. And this is an important detail that people overlook. The military is not about arresting people and presumption of the. Of innocence. The military is about lethality. That's who we send. When the system of law is broken down and there is no more bartering or discussing or debating, that's when you just send someone out to just. Yeah, that's it.

[A]

Get rid of it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when we allow the military in the streets in the United States, what we're really saying is that we're going to suspend the rule of law, we're going to suspend your right to due process, and we're just going to kill you. Yeah, and I would counsel against that too, because everybody, military included, because you're not a military individual 24 hours a day after you get out of your service, there's going to come a point in time when you are going to live in a civil society governed by civil and criminal law that has nothing to do with title 10 of the U. S. Code, which is a uniform code of military justice, which is what every military member, active diligence duty military to not reserve military. That is governed by that. And we're going to say that we're going to allow the military to conduct what exactly in our streets?

[A]

Military affairs on cities.

[B]

I don't want to live in Myanmar, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so when we have all these federal agencies dedicated to upholding US Law, and now they have to have the national guard and the active duty military in the streets on top of it. I'm completely opposed to that.

[A]

Yeah, it sets a scary precedent for sure. Once power is given, there's no way.

[B]

They'Re just going to take. They're not going to take it back. I just had to get on a plane today with a real id, or not today, but a couple days ago with a real id, because that's the federal government growing its control. And then when you get into state rights issues, a lot of people comment a lot of things online and they don't have a thorough understanding of what they're talking about. And if they do, good, good. I'll hear your point out and if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But when you talk about state rights and the difference in perspective from people in Oregon that want people to be able to stop traffic so pedestrians and cross and people in New York that live in a city of 14 million people and are like, hey, if you're a pedestrian, stay out of the street until the lights green. The realities of people living in this country are different based on different areas. So having a one size fits all federal government 3,000 miles away from where you live, live, and having them in control of every aspect of your life through an all powerful military agency that is not law enforcement saying you're going to do as you're told, or do we believe in freedom? And there's a lot of things. I can go with that. Mark. Yeah. I don't want to turn this.

[A]

No, no, no. I, I'm, I'm completely with you again. I'm even like, in New York, people are like, oh, New York is so dangerous. It's terrible. I'm like, like, I find it to be fine.

[B]

I love.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, like, I'm walking around, I'm like, it's. Of course there's issues. Things should get rectified, Things can be improved. Of course, I don't want to act like everything's perfect.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it's not to the degree that many of my family in Florida think that it is. And they're seeing things where they go, oh, it's a war zone up there.

[B]

I'm with you on that. And this is one of my primary problems. I just met Valhalla VFT, who's another YouTube guy, and JD Delay. JD Delay and Ian work together a lot. I don't want to get into anything. And the guy's probably a great guy. I have not met jd, but I live right there across the street from Department of Homeland Security. Exactly is where I live. If someone's looking for me, that's where. So I see this and I drive by it every single day. And they say that it's a war zone. How is it possible that myself and every other person that lives in Portland is capable of driving through a war zone unscathed in our nice vehicles. We live and we're sitting there drinking frappe lattes or whatever with frog costumes on. And I don't. And there are elements of antifa there, but what they throw out in the media is so far away from the truth or of the totality of what goes on that I disagree with the way a lot of things are portrayed.

[A]

Yeah. Now, you had mentioned last time we spoke that you were very concerned about the idea of, like, America actually having some type of war with the cartels and that you saw this as like, you know, this is going to be a big. A massive issue in the event that we get into this. This is not going to be some type of war far away that America doesn't feel. This is something that we will all feel.

[B]

So this cartel people that we were talking about earlier, they have Chinese people that are involved in grows. So think Eastern Pacific, all the way in the state of Maine involved in these. Marijuana grows that far away. So you're talking about all the way on the other side of Europe or all the way on the other side of the United States. Either way, you have people from that far away operating in Maine in a foreign language. But now you take that same group of people and you place them on the southern border with a familiar language. They have so many generations of people that have been involved in the military and other things because. And you think that going to war against the people that have that proximity to your loved ones is a good idea. I. I'm gonna disagree with that.

[A]

What's up, people? We're gonna take a break really quick because I have amazing news. I'm coming on the road. That's right. My very first headlining tour where I'm going to every city that will possibly allow me to go there. I'm going to Salt Lake City. I'm going to Washington, D.C. and Charlotte, North Carolina, in February. Those tickets will be announced soon. You can get all the tickets at Mark Yagnon Live and I'll see you guys there. Let's get back to the show. What's up, people? We're gonna take a break real quick because this episode is sponsored by me. Yes. Camp R D. That is the merch. That is the threads that we'd be wearing around here at the campsite. And we got all sorts of cool stuff. My buddy Zach just cooked up a sick UFO collection. You can go check it out there at Camp R D. I really appreciate you guys. We had so many people that came through for the Holidays and picked up their threads. It's awesome. We got hats, hoodies, T shirts, all that. And if you're still listening to this and you didn't skip through, congratulations, congrats. You got a promo code. All right, what do we do? Christos? 5% more. How much five more? 10%. 10%. Final offer. You won't go higher? You tell me. What, what do we give them? 12%. All right, we're doing 12% off. Should we go more? Hey, it's your world. I'm just living in it. Let's round up 10%. No, 15. If you use the promo code code, Camp 15, you're gonna be getting 15 off. Yes. I think we should also do Camp 10. Just if someone doesn't want to take too much. Camp 10 or Camp 15, those are the only two that are available. And then maybe we send a little something extra to the ones that do 10. If you do Camp 10, maybe there's something extra. No promises, but it's an interesting experiment. I just am curious to see what you guys do. Camp 10 or Camp 15 at Camp R D when you check out, you're gonna be getting those discounts. Thank you so much for rocking with us and wearing the thread. It keeps the lights on. It keeps the fire burning. Anyway, let's get back to the show. I'm curious though, if you. Because again, I think the. The cartel situation in Mexico is dire. Right. Like it is. It is catastrophic for the Mexican people living there. So I'm curious, hypothetically, if you were elected president of Mexico, what would be some of the steps that you would go through to try to create order in the cartel situation immediately? I mean, let's say you have a four year term.

[B]

They have. Well, it's a six year term in Mexico, but if I had six years in Mexico. Ah, Do I say my opinion on Mexican politics? I avoid Mexican politics because Mexico is my adopted home. And as an adopted Mexican citizen, I do not ever opin on Mexican politics as far as what I think think they're doing correctly or incorrectly. But if I was ever allowed.

[A]

Yeah, just hypothetically, what would you do?

[B]

I would do everything I can to strengthen the economy and international relations with the United States and with primarily the other Latin American countries that are also in dire need of goods. Mexico has probably four times the population of Spain. They have a much larger economy. It's such a powerful, great place to live that people do not understand that Mexico is not just a country full of cartel. There is most of the country is the bomb. Dude. I love this country. There's a reason why I went to Mexico. I wasn't. I didn't come back for like 10 years.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I would do everything I could to. To increase beccas, which are like money is paid to students for doing well in school and allowing them to propagate or perpetuate a stronger economy in Mexico. I would do everything I could to take away or remove bureaucratic things in Mexico as far as starting businesses, but also having a way to strengthen these businesses to where they cannot be taken advantage of by the cartel. I would come down very hard on. On that is crimes, the drug trafficking. They operate zones de tolerancia all throughout Mexico, which is where if you want to go to a brothel or something like that and brothels and drugs go hand in hand, I'm going to look the other way about it. I might even legalize it to try to take out the profit margin on that, but also use that to reinforce studies and economic growth within the country. Internally, they do have say that I think I forget what it was. I tried to join it. It's a federal agency in Mexico that definitely goes after specifically cartel. And I would go down the road of trying to make sure that if people were found to be corrupt within the Mexican government that they were doing 50 year prison terms. And oddly, you know, it's funny, there was a governor that said that he was going to serve his six year term and he's now a Mexican senator. And one year into his term he said, yeah, we're going to write a law that's going to come down on political corruption and anyone that's guilty of being a politician and corrupt is going to be punished five years into his term because they run in six years. A journalist asked this governor if they had done anything with that law.

[A]

Law.

[B]

Oh, we're still writing it one year before he's getting out. To date that law has never been written. And now this guy's sitting in not at a state level, but in a national federal level as a senator and they never come down. So if I was president, I would try to find a way to push Congress in Mexico because set up the same as here. Yeah. What's called the camera diputados and then senator. So it's kind of the same representatives and Senate and it gets deadlocked to where there's never a law that comes down on crushing political corruption or even agency corruption at a military or law enforcement level. So I would do everything I could to push the economy.

[A]

So you bolster the economy, like let's say we're three years in, the economy's bolstered, there's great relations with US Mexico. Corruption has been taken care of within the government. How does that affect the cartels?

[B]

Government they're in here are complicit in allowing them to work. What do you mean by that? Well, there's so much corruption. If there's something that's just so abhorrent that society is not going to tolerate it, it's not allowed to exist. And what do you mean? Child molesting, child fear, something like that, does it exist? Yeah. But is it socially acceptable? Definitely not.

[A]

Not.

[B]

And if you had corruption that every time it was found out that person's doing a 50 year term in prison because it's just not going to be tolerated. And I mean that all of us mutually agree that harming children is bad. It's taboo in almost every single culture society I can think of. But when you think about government corruption, it's not looked at the same way. There are members of our own government that are still allowed to even here's a good example, Mayor Marion Barry, the former mayor of Washington D.C. gets found to be caught smoking crack, stays in office, blah blah blah, nothing ever happens. Yeah, torpedoes his career. But he's not serving a life term in prison. He's living a life just sitting there chilling in his mansion. Obama sitting there chilling in Martha's Vineyard with his mansion and stuff like that. Even though it's found that he was using the FBI to spy on political candidates. It's forget whether it's Donald Trump or whatever. Corruption's allowed to exist and it's socially acceptable because every few weeks we get add with whatever news stories stuck out in the, in the news. Anthony Weiner sexting teenagers or whatever. Is he in prison? I don't think so. So as a president like naive Bukele, I disagree with naive Bukele. I would give people their day in court, I would not lock them up the way that he has. But I would definitely come down so hard on political corruption and stuff like that, maintaining elections. I'm not going to be God because I think that a little bit of power in the hands of somebody for a short period of time is a good thing. Term limits, I would push that. But the political corruption and stuff like that would come down and law enforcement corruption and military corruption, I'd come down on that like a ton of bricks. And I mean come down on the same way they say here in the U s code, title 18, I think it is has what the punishment for treason is in this country. And if you look at for corruption, and look at corruption for what it really is, it is betraying your country. If that's not treason, I don't know what is. They talk about insurrection, they talk about treason, but they don't ever talk about it being, being committed by the politicians that are entrusted with safeguarding that institution. So why isn't that ever a thing?

[A]

And with all of that corruption taken care of, the cartels lose their leverage within the government.

[B]

They cannot move, they have no logistical power. They move, they have no power to. It diminishes all of their power to corrupt these entities that they need to have access to in order to exist.

[A]

Can they still use threats of violence?

[B]

They though, yeah, they can use threats of violence, but I mean how much can they. Their purchasing power with weapons, their ability to get weapons? Yes, they get weapons from the United States. It flows through the hands of border patrol in Adiana. Or they have weapons that they could even potentially get internally from the military. But if they don't have the money to purchase that, just think like if you and I wanted to start a cartel, how successful are we going to be? Lacking capital, I mean substantial capital. And if you legalize drugs to where they cannot do that and you're taxing it and that's going to grow the government and if you make it a foregone conclusion that you will spend the rest of your life in prison even if you are a millionaire, that wound up in Congress, if you're found to be helping people. I think it's more effective than blowing up boats off the coast of Venezuela.

[A]

How you just mentioned something about weapons getting into the hands of the cartel.

[B]

What was the that the atf. Okay, here's a perfect example. And, and I don't, I don't want to be like I'm a conservative leaning libertarian bashing Obama, but when it was found that the ATF in this country, because we've been talking about the border patrol, Coast Guard, let's stick the ATF in there. They don't want you or myself having certain weapons unless we pay a tax stamp to have a fully automatic weapon, which you can do, do, people are like, oh, you shouldn't own machine guns. You can totally have machine guns. Go to Texas, you can buy one right now, get a text stamp. You'll hear them at the firing range all the time. But this same agency that doesn't want you or other people having certain weapons or silencers unless you pay A tax stamp is going to put hand weapons directly into the hands of the cartel. And when it's found out on a federal level, Eric Holder, who was the in charge of the Department of Justice at the time the Attorney General, gets to claim executive privilege at the hands of Obama and not be prosecuted for his crimes of arming cartel members and even maybe potentially provoking an international war. I mean, I don't know what. Where the Secretary of State would fit in and all of that. Who's responsible with administering foreign relations, but he's pumping weapons directly into cartel hands and then we're going to talk about law enforcement here at home and. But this guy's allowed to escape and not go to court or prison because of executive privilege. What is that?

[A]

Wow, I had not heard that before. That's very interesting.

[B]

Christos, can you look up Eric Holder executive privilege atf, please?

[A]

I'll throw in allegedly on this just so I don't get sued. But I'm curious as far as how the weapons actually get through. Do you know, like, is he just giving the weapons?

[B]

I do not know exactly how they got through, but they did get through. This did happen happen. The Fast and Furious and executive privilege in a letter to Obama asking executive privilege on the Fast and Furious documents so they stay out of prison and continue. You know, I'm curious what Eric Holder is doing these days. He's probably has a successful law practice somewhere and sitting pretty interesting. So. And that should not be the case. And I agree in law and order, Mark. I mean, I'm completely a fan of it. The Ten Commandments are one of the very, very. It's not the first instance. You got the code of Hammurabi, the code of Urnamu, these Sumerian documents. But biblical text is like one of the basis of our.

[A]

Can we scroll down here? I just want to see the. No, I. I'm with you. This.

[B]

I've.

[A]

I've heard of Fast and Furious, but I've never actually seen what the exact operation did.

[B]

They had to give him executive privilege so he did not wind up in a prison cell.

[A]

Interesting. Interesting. Our purpose has never been to hold the Attorney General contempt. It's been to get information. Interesting. And can you just pull up the Fast and Furious operation? Because I want to know more about exactly what happened and how it actually works. Because I guess I'm curious if what we get out of it if we're arming these.

[B]

I know what we don't get out of it when we don't hold the main person that's in charge of the entire justice system in the United States, accountable for breaking the law.

[A]

Right. But I guess, you know, I'd want to know what is the. Okay, so this was a tactic used by Arizona, a series of sting operations. The Tucson Phoenix area allowed licensed firearms dealers to sell weapons to illegal buyers, hoping to track the guns to the cartel leaders and arrest them. None of the targeted high level cartel figures have been arrested.

[B]

Zero. And you pump these weapons in. And I fought directly against these weapons. However, as of October 2011. So remember, I was in service in Mexico from May 1, 2012 until the end of 2016. So my own personal government, the guy that's charged with taking care of myself and every other civilian in this country is arming the cartel.

[A]

I mean, guns tracked by the ATF have been found at crime scenes on both sides of the Mexico US Border, including the scene of agent Brian Terry, who was killed in 2010. Oh, wow.

[B]

It's a big deal, Mark.

[A]

They call it gun walking. That's interesting. They've been found in numerous crime scenes where at least 150 Mexican civilians were maimed or killed. Wow. I mean, that is. I never really looked into this. I mean, that's crazy that they would just give them the weapons, hoping to track them. I guess if it worked, we would be like, oh, this.

[B]

It would be fantastic.

[A]

This is awesome. We got the bad guys.

[B]

But, well, if it worked, how many people were killed with those weapons and what's the price of that? I mean, so when we're determining worth or value, you have to realize that that value is weighed on both sides of the border too.

[A]

Yeah, of course, it's an ethical question at the end of the day, but if you, if you gave me a bargain, you're like, hey, we're going to get the top, you know, 100, you know, cartel kingpins that are shots and 10 people will die. Then you got to be like, I.

[B]

Would, I would do it.

[A]

I'd probably do it. But, you know, the 10 people die, it's awful. But you get 100 of the bad guys. So you're like, all right, but considering that by 2011 they got 0 of them.

[B]

Right? No, I would flat out do it. Especially if those 10 people were uniform personnel that already made a deal to be like, hey, I'm willing to risk my life defending this cause. Okay, cool.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Let's do it. 10 people. I got you what I don't have you with, though. Or I'm not saying that you would disagree with this. This, but I cannot Think of a single instance where anyone, anywhere, not being accountable for their actions, other than someone that's maybe handicapped mentally not being accountable for their actions being a good thing. I think that people must be accountable for their actions. And when you have the leader of the Justice Department in the United States invoking executive privilege on behalf of Obama, so now you have the head of the executive branch of government saying, yes, it's okay that you break the law this way and not even reveal to the United States public the justification for having broken the law this way and holding it in secrecy, and then the fruition of your entire operation yields zero rest. And you don't have to justify that or substantiate that to the American public at all. I'm completely against that.

[A]

I mean, it's not that different than Iran Contra. Right.

[B]

Like, I watched that too, because I'm old enough to have remembered that. And you have $5,000 copies, pots and toilet seats. And they're coming up with all this money, spending it with all over north. They're completely breaking the law. And then years later, not only does it not bear fruit, it bears bad fruit. Because we go back to fight these same weapons and all of the people that we just armed and we just did it again with The Taliban was $7 billion. Was it 1.7. No, it's $7 billion worth of weapons that we left in Afghanistan. But they're worried about what we're carrying here at home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Here in, in New York right now. If we had a 9 millimeter and the police saw us, they would arrest us right now. But this is going on.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's pretty remarkable. I mean. Okay, yeah. U.S. withdrew from Afghanistan in 2021. 300,000 weapons intended for the Afghan forces fell in.

[B]

Santa. $1 billion. That's not my number, Mark. Those are their figure. That's AI figure. It's. And I knew that. So I don't know if I come across as well or I don't know how I'm learning how I come across the more I do videos because, like, when you do a video, you learn how you come across. Sure. I spent a lot of time reading and stuff like that. And that's all true. And I want to know how long is it until we're back in another war, in another 20 years with your son over there fighting the same thing that we couldn't put to bed today and we're worried about blowing up fishing boats. I'll put of off of Venezuela. I'm going to say no. And we've been at war with the terrorists. I. I hate that term, but we've been at war on the global war on terror for 20 years. Right, 20 years. And where are we at with the arming the Taliban, apparently?

[A]

Yeah, well, you've heard that thing. I forget who said it, but anytime you're fighting a. A cause you'll never win, you know, like the war on terror, the war on drugs, these sort of like. Like kind of ghosts that we chase that you can never actually put a, you know, a face on.

[B]

Well, I'm glad that you're saying that this comes full circle, because when you cannot put a pin exactly on the person and exactly who and what and where and when and why you're going to war with someone, you're already fighting a losing battle. And not only do they want to do that globally on the global war on terror, but they want to do it domestically with people when they can. Just this claim that certain parents, the FBI, targeting school children because they had an issue with what they're being taught at school and wanted to be involved in their children's educational voyage throughout school. And the FBI was targeting these parents or labeling them as potential terrorists. And so when you're, like talking about all these different things, you have to be able to have a direct crime time. What they did public charges in the global war on terror, like, just the definition of it remaining ambiguous. They're doing that with crimes here now in the United States and creating another. Another what's just situational where something's not well defined with crimes or potential crimes. It started with Padilla in 2012. Do you know who that is? Padilla was an American that lived in Chicago in 2012, and it's one of the very first. Padilla, Guantanamo 2012 terrorist charges. And so he was a person that the United States government, Josh Padilla. That's it. They arrested this guy. He was an American citizen. He was not an immigrant, even though he's got a Latino last name. And he was kind of a dirt bag man, without a doubt. But the problem is, is they stuck him in Guantanamo without any charges for, I think, four years before they charged him without any legal representation in a military prison. This is the government that's in charge of taking care of all of us, treating American citizens that way without charge and without due process. And even though the guy's a dirtbag, he still deserves his day in court. And the sentence that is written, like, every time that you publish a law in Mexico, it goes into something that's called the Diadio official, which is a vessel to portray or convey to the public what the crime is, what the jurisdiction is. You have probably, like, five different aspects of a crime. Who did it, when they did it, and what the punishment is going to be. These are what makes the elements of a crime crime. I get confused because I learned it in Spanish. But when you're lacking that, when you're lacking charges, you're also not saying what this guy's ultimate punishment is going to be, whether it's seven years in prison, whatever. So they stick him in prison for several years, don't give him any access to a lawyer, do not give him his day in court, and keep him in legal limbo forever. And not only did they do that to him, but they threatened every other American in the United States with the same thing. Because the only thing that they have to do now is say. Say that Mark or Dave or whoever is a terrorist. They don't even have to prove it because they're sitting in prison and they're not in a court of law. This is what we're ushering in in this, in this day and age, and I'm completely against that. I like people being accountable for their actions, people having a chance to prove themselves in court and not to beat the Venezuelan drug traffickers both to death, but, I mean, people need to have their day in court and prove their case.

[A]

Well, if I ever get put in Guantanamo, you're going to be my third call. All right.

[B]

I'm working on becoming a lawyer in this country, Mark.

[A]

Oh, hell, yeah.

[B]

Well, I mean, I told you I didn't do that well with school this year, and because I've been busy and I need to be on top of that. But I definitely want to become a lawyer, and I encourage other people to go out and push. I get tired. I don't want to go to school. I'm not the brightest guy. But you have to keep soldering forward to learn things, about things and learn how to help other people. You help people every day with your podcast. You don't even know it.

[A]

Well, I appreciate you saying that, man, but I feel like you could get me out of Guantanamo either through the legal way, or you can bust me out recon.

[B]

You know, these guys are pretty gnarly.

[A]

You could come through a wall or something, dude. For sure. I really think so. Andy Dufresne. You could just bust me out, Andy.

[B]

Yeah, dude.

[A]

I believe that if anyone can do.

[B]

Something more powerful than a little chipping hammer, man, in 20 years, come on.

[A]

I think it'll be busting in there with some big guns. Dude, you'll get me out. That's why I'm gonna call my. My, my lawyer. I'm gonna call my mom, and I'm gonna call you.

[B]

Dave. Frank.

[A]

I' say Dave. I got him a little bit.

[B]

Hey, man, don't be throwing rocks at my poster, man. Who is that? Raquel. She was hot.

[A]

Yeah, she was a piece.

[B]

Better not. My wife better not. Hear that. Yeah.

[A]

Ear muffs. Earmuffs. Ear.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah, but. And you know, if that ever happens, I'm gonna need you to get me out.

[B]

Yeah, right there. Rita Hayworth. Look at that.

[A]

Yeah. What a ledge.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Shout out to her from Brooklyn.

[B]

Look at that, man.

[A]

Man, that's right in New Yorker through and through, Brick.

[B]

You know what? I think that New York has an inordinate amount of actors that have actually come from here. If you look. Do you ever look at actors and actresses? See what their religions are, See where they came from, their background, their upbringing? There is a huge amount of them that come out of right here in NYC, dude.

[A]

100. 100. I mean, basically. Hopefully you soon. You know what I mean?

[B]

I hope so.

[A]

You're going to be a New York resident. Have some kids here.

[B]

I've been a New York resident, too. Different occasions.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

About to make it a third one.

[B]

My wife's not digging on the way. New Yorker. I love it, man, because I go down to FDR and I'm like, sweet, we're going places. Because I used to work up in Peakskill, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Doing F16 stuff. And I dig it. But she. She gets in there and she's like, terrible. What does your. Who drives, you or your wife?

[A]

Me, always.

[B]

You always. Me too. What does your w. Does your wife tell you how to drive? Are you a conservative driver or are you like, let's, let's.

[A]

We're going places. I'm. I'm pretty chill. I'm pretty chill because my issue is that I speed. And then we get there like 40 seconds earlier, right? I mean, so, like, I get that too. So I'm like. I just kind of look at them like, I'm not gonna actually beat anything here.

[B]

Well, when I lived here, they didn't have the speed traffic cameras up yet. So, FDR, you're doing like 70 or 80 down that thing? What, 4 o' clock in the morning? Totally, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hitting Duncan and then going to Peacekill. You'll be there in about 50 minutes.

[A]

You drive like you're back in Mexico, dud. Just letting it rip.

[B]

You know what? I got places to go, baby.

[A]

Well, Dave, thank you so much for joining us, brother. You are always welcome in the tent, man.

[B]

I love coming out here, man.

[A]

I'm excited for you to be my neighbor soon.

[B]

Hey, I hope so, too. If you haven't had the chance, I've seen this guy. I don't vouch for many comics, but this guy's one that you have to see in person. He's just.

[A]

Thank you, brother.

[B]

You're awesome, brother.

[A]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And let's do this again soon.

[B]

Definitely. I would love it.

[A]

I can't wait.

[B]

You got open invitation? Thousand.

[A]

I'll see you then. Thank you, brother.