Craziest CIA Honey Traps that ACTUALLY Happened

Summary

Camp Gagnon: Episode Summary - "Craziest CIA Honey Traps that ACTUALLY Happened"

Release Date: February 20, 2025

Hosted by Mark Gagnon, Camp Gagnon delves into some of the most intriguing and unconventional espionage tactics employed by intelligence agencies worldwide. In the episode titled "Craziest CIA Honey Traps that ACTUALLY Happened," Mark explores the seductive and deceptive strategies used to extract valuable information without the overt use of force or intimidation. The episode is structured around several real and dramatized accounts of honey traps, showcasing the intricate blend of charm, manipulation, and strategy.

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1. Introduction to Honey Traps

Timestamp: [03:00] - [04:16]

Mark and his co-host introduce the concept of honey traps, also known as sexpionage—a subset of spycraft where intelligence is gathered through romantic or sexual relationships. They set the stage for the episode by highlighting the allure and effectiveness of this method in espionage.

B: "A honey trap, also known as sexpionage... through a different job."
[03:27]

---

2. The Stasi's Romeo Project

Timestamp: [06:00] - [22:33]

The episode dives into the Romeo Project orchestrated by the East German intelligence agency, the Stasi, under the leadership of Marcus Wolf. This initiative strategically deployed young, attractive men—dubbed "Romeo spies"—to seduce women in high-ranking positions within West Germany's government and military. These relationships were meticulously crafted to extract sensitive information.

Key Points:

• Marcus Wolf's Background: Trained by Soviet intelligence, Wolf became the chief of Foreign Intelligence for the Stasi by age 30.
• Recruitment of Romeo Spies: Selected for their charm and looks, these spies were trained in seduction techniques to target and manipulate their Juliets.
• Operational Tactics: Spies arranged "chance encounters" in mundane settings like bus stops and cafes to initiate relationships.
• Notable Case - Gabriella Kline: A translator who was deceived into a 12-year relationship, believing she was aiding a humanitarian cause, only to be entangled in espionage.

A: "It's better to have loved and lost."
[22:45]

Wolf's autobiography reveals the morally ambiguous nature of espionage, acknowledging that while the ends might justify the means, the human element often complicates the objective extraction of intelligence.

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3. Carl and Hannah Kocker: Infiltrating the CIA

Timestamp: [23:00] - [33:28]

Mark narrates the story of Carl and Hannah Kocker, a Czechoslovakian duo adept at blending into American society to infiltrate the CIA. Their method involved hosting and attending swinger parties, where they leveraged their relationships to gather classified information from unsuspecting military and intelligence personnel.

Key Points:

• Background: Carl was recruited by Czechoslovakia's secret police and established a facade of normalcy in the U.S.
• Espionage Methods: Utilizing social gatherings and sexual relationships to access and extract information.
• Lifestyle: Their swinging lifestyle provided cover for their intelligence activities, allowing them to interact with numerous high-profile individuals.
• Downfall: Carl's eventual exposure came through defections and intensified FBI investigations, leading to their arrest and conviction for espionage.

B: "You can't have just a nice Nigerian lady."
[32:18]

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4. Svetlana O. Kovaa and Mordecai Venunu

Timestamp: [52:13] - [70:08]

The narrative shifts to Svetlana O. Kovaa, a Russian operative who targeted Mordecai Venunu, a nuclear whistleblower in Israel. Through a meticulously planned relationship, Svetlana seduced Venunu to extract critical information about Israel's nuclear capabilities.

Key Points:

• Venunu's Dilemma: As a nuclear technician, Venunu discovered illicit activities at his facility and decided to expose them.
• Svetlana's Strategy: Presented herself as a supportive partner, gradually gaining Venunu's trust and access to sensitive information.
• Espionage Outcome: Venunu's disclosures were met with severe repercussions, including his long-term imprisonment and stringent restrictions post-release.

A: "I felt I could do what nobody had done before, infiltrate an active Soviet intelligence network."
[58:34]

---

5. The Profumo Affair: Christine Keeler and John Profumo

Timestamp: [130:00] - [137:25]

One of the most infamous cases discussed is the Profumo Affair, where British Secretary of State John Profumo engaged in a scandalous relationship with model Christine Keeler. This liaison was exploited as a potential avenue for Soviet intelligence to access high-level government secrets.

Key Points:

• Initial Affair: Profumo's relationship with Keeler was scrutinized for its potential to compromise national security.
• Double Encounters: Keeler's simultaneous involvement with other high-ranking officials raised suspicions of espionage.
• Government Response: MI5's investigation led to Profumo's resignation and highlighted the vulnerabilities within British intelligence.

A: "It's a tough one. I mean, you're Team USA, obviously, but I like them, but kudos to them."
[137:25]

---

6. Eric Swalwell and Alleged Honey Trap

Timestamp: [124:58] - [139:57]

The episode touches upon contemporary allegations involving U.S. Congressman Eric Swalwell, who was purportedly targeted by Chinese operatives through a romantic liaison intended to extract political influence. Although the investigation concluded without definitive wrongdoing, the episode underscores the persistent relevance of honey traps in modern espionage.

Key Points:

• Investigation Details: Swalwell was alleged to have been approached by a Chinese operative during a fundraising event.
• Outcome: The House Ethics Committee found no evidence of misconduct, though rumors and political smears persisted.
• Implications: The case exemplifies how honey traps continue to evolve and impact even high-level political figures today.

B: "They were like, yeah, we can take him to life in prison."
[135:02]

---

7. Final Reflections and Cautionary Tales

Timestamp: [137:03] - [138:48]

Mark and his co-host wrap up the episode by reflecting on the intricate balance between personal relationships and national security. They emphasize the ethical dilemmas faced by individuals entangled in espionage and the long-lasting consequences of such covert operations.

---

Notable Quotes:

• B: "If you have the priest in your pocket, you're good."
  [17:59]

• A: "It's a tough one. I mean, you do good at entry level... and then you get promoted to where you're bad."
  [48:03]

• B: "To never have loved at all."
  [22:45]

---

Conclusion

This episode of Camp Gagnon offers a riveting exploration of the clandestine world of honey traps, blending historical accounts with contemporary insights. Through engaging storytelling and sharp commentary, Mark Gagnon sheds light on the seductive yet perilous strategies employed in the shadowy arenas of espionage.

Transcript

[A]

Oh, I'm excited. This is a perfect topic.

[B]

I genuinely thought this for you.

[A]

A little bit of spy craft, a little bit of sex.

[B]

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[A]

And that's been the episode. Thank you guys so much. Hey, what's up, girl?

[B]

All right, well, you're gonna. That's okay.

[A]

Okay. I have a feeling we might have a translator on our hands.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just like, I'm trying. Help.

[B]

Yes. I'm just. And you can fix.

[A]

I will help the children.

[B]

Yeah. No, she was in Paris. She was helping NATO in Paris.

[A]

Right. Being like, in Paris.

[B]

And so she confessed her sins to a priest who was just his homie.

[A]

You have the priest in your pocket. You're good.

[B]

You quickly won the sympathy of South Korean authorities. She ended up going on Joe Rogan's podcast. Okay. And then eventually dropping everywhere. No, this is not Yeonmi. Okay? Yeonmi was never a spy. She would never. Okay. We think she wasn't.

[A]

This is gonna be a question that we end up at a lot during this episode where I'm like, what percentage of them is great spies? And what percentage of them love swinging?

[B]

They're like, ah, you step away, you take a hiatus. You go to the devil's spot. Which many of them responded. I don't know what they're talking about.

[A]

Yeah. I have no idea what. Parties crazy. You know, I'm. I'm Team usa, obviously, but I like them, but kudos. Shout out to them. Yeah. Fun couple. This Guy's awesome. This guy is awesome.

[B]

He just works out.

[A]

He's doing pull ups on a. Yeah.

[B]

Does cold plunges and just chills. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to camp. Yes. We're here in the tent. This is the tent talks. This is the show where I explain the most interesting, fascinating, controversial, morbid and sexual topics from around the planet and the Internet to my dumbest friends again. And, oh, boy, we got. We got a triple rounder right here. Fresh off the short bus. He's got a helmet on. Took it off. For this episode, guys, we got Joey Avery.

[A]

That is an insane introduction. And every time you introduce me, I wonder why I'm here. But hopefully I'll learn one thing from the genius himself.

[B]

You have learned. I have learned. You've learned quite a lot.

[A]

Not gonna lie.

[B]

You've learned about the eschatology of all the major religions.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You've learned about the FBI.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you're going to learn about something similar but different. The honey traps.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

You ever heard of this?

[A]

No.

[B]

A honey trap, also known as sexpionage. Ooh. This is a sub genre or a subset of spycraft where spies will be able to go in and extract information, intelligence and data. Not through force, not through some type of mental manipulation, not through some type of COVID you know, job or something like that, but through a different job.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Puss. Hand.

[A]

Oh, nice blow. Oh, I'm excited. This is a perfect topic.

[B]

That's fun. I genuinely thought this for you.

[A]

A little bit of spy craft, a little bit of sex.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I mean, this is something that I feel like. I feel like I could fall prey to, but I wouldn't even have sex with one of these spies. I think I would just chat with them.

[A]

Yeah. You just feel like a woman who really listens, who. I shouldn't say that. Who finds what I have to say interesting all the time. That's how you know it's a spot.

[B]

Exactly. Right?

[A]

Yeah. Because at some point they should be like, that's enough.

[B]

Yeah, we should sit with me at the bar. Yeah. Like, you want to get out of here? I'd be like, well, I've actually have one more story and I really want.

[A]

To promise I'm trying to you. And you're like, no, no, no. Let's have another Guinness.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

She's like, I love how you love Guinness. She's perfect.

[B]

Yeah, it's a. It's a fascinating thing. I mean. I mean, sex, lies, espionage. Seems like a James Bond movie, but no, it's Real life. And yeah, there's a. There's a whole bunch of them and some of them are insane.

[A]

It is perfect, though. I mean, if you think about people in powerful positions, which traditionally, whether this is good or bad, has been men. What is the.

[B]

Whoa, whoa.

[A]

Traditionally, if I'm just doing stats, you.

[B]

Think men are the only people that could be good leaders? White men.

[A]

That is not what I said. That is not at all what I said.

[B]

That's literally what you just.

[A]

I am. This is a backwards looking analysis of the statistics.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which will tell you. Frequently, rulers have been men. Not all the time, and not even potentially most effectively. But what is their Achilles heel? Trying to get that.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, jfk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He got murdered by Marilyn Monroe.

[A]

Got his head blown off.

[B]

Did you know Marilyn Monroe killed him?

[A]

I did not know that. Now that is an interesting angle.

[B]

No, it was Israel. But anyway, whoa. We're gonna go some of the. Have you ever, have you ever heard that theory? I know that there's no one I subscribe to.

[A]

I know that everything that has happened in society, there is a theory that the Jews did it. But I hadn't heard this one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is. That is a theory.

[A]

What's the concept? It was just Israel.

[B]

Mossad, the precursor to Mossad. Something.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's a topic for a different episode. Okay, you're getting this off track, but you know who's actually great at honey trapping the good old boys in blue?

[A]

The Jews.

[B]

Yeah, there's a couple of good ones. We'll get to that. But let's start with the Stasi. The East Germans. Shall we? Yes. The Cold War grips Europe. East Germany's intelligence agency, the Stasi, was crafting one of the most effective espionage strategies in history. And kind of kicked off a lot of, you know, this, this spycraft tactic of, of honey potting. This is known as the Romeo Project, led by the infamous Marcus Wolf. Relied on charm, seduction and love to extract secrets from the heart of West Germany's government and military. So this guy was basically a genius espionage sort of spy dude, right? Grows up in Moscow, trained by Soviet intelligence services before returning to Germany. By the age of 30, he's the chief of Foreign Intelligence. By your age, imagine that. Chief of Foreign intelligence of the Stas.

[A]

I could do that.

[B]

And for decades, he eludes identification from Western intelligence. He's known as the man without a face.

[A]

Oh, and honestly, kind of a nice face.

[B]

Yeah, not, not a, not a bad egg.

[A]

I'm a decent looker.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Looks like Mr. Rogers, but with some bad ideas.

[B]

And he basically sees an opportunity to exploit the aftermath math of World War II. The world's taken a heavy toll on the male population, leaving many West German women in government, military and intelligence positions who are now lonely, longing for companionship. Wow. Realizing that romance could be a powerful weapon, what does he do? He trains and deploys an army of what they call Romeo spies. Young, attractive men whose mission was to seduce these women, codenamed Juliets.

[A]

See, this is already the opposite of what I was expecting.

[B]

What are the odds, right?

[A]

I thought it was chicks going for dudes all.

[B]

No, Why'd you think that?

[A]

Why do you think I thought that? I think I.

[B]

You're a sexist pig.

[A]

No.

[B]

You don't think women could do this. Wait, you don't think men could do this job? Yeah, you're a misandrist.

[A]

Why are we still better?

[B]

You're a misandrist, dude. Yeah, I hate missandrea, A term no one really uses. No, you never really hear people rallying about.

[A]

Wait, what is that? Is that people who hate men?

[B]

Yes. That's the inverse of misogyny, if I'm not mistaken. I see.

[A]

Yes, the less popular version.

[B]

Yeah. So basically, the Romeo spies were selected through a rigorous process, not just any men. Can we pull up a picture of these?

[A]

So this dude's job was basically like, I'm going to find all the hottest dudes in Germany and get them to try and bang chicks. This is probably the greatest spy job for a dude. Although probably some. Sometimes some of these ladies, you know, Wolf.

[B]

And basically they're educated, cultured, and most importantly, exceptionally charming. These young men were trained in the arts of seduction and how to identify vulnerabilities, understand women's emotional needs, and master the fine art of making their targets feel special and valued. And for a low price. Today I'm going to be teaching a select group of men just how to do that.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Teaching a course? Yeah, I'm going to be teaching a course. Okay. And it's how you can. How you can. It's. It's called the game. Yeah. Have you heard of this?

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I was going to say.

[B]

So here's one of the East German.

[A]

Did they just teach them the game?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Were they all peacocking?

[B]

They're like, put on a fedora. Yeah, yeah. Wear a blue jacket.

[A]

And they're just nagging a bunch of like, high up women.

[B]

Yeah, basically. And so before deploying these spies, West Germany, the sty gathered comprehensive psychological profiles of potential Juliets they knew Their likes, dislikes, hobbies, even preferred physical traits of their targets. Armed with this information, which I don't know how they figure that out.

[A]

Oh, you think girls don't talk about that sort of thing?

[B]

All right, fair. Maybe there's a problem.

[A]

Yeah, all they did is just go to the bathroom once.

[B]

Armed as information, they orchestrated, quote, chance encounters, meet their Juliets in seemingly innocent circumstances. A bus stop. A bus stop, a cafe, or a dark alley. And from there, the seduction began. The dark alley. When I added, okay, that's not really what it was.

[A]

So I was already thinking that it would be kind of suspicious if, like, a straight up, like, 10 hot dude just pulled up to you at a bus stop and was like, hey, yeah, you were watching Sex in the City lately or whatever. Like, I would love. I would love to know what, like, what the first move was.

[B]

Yeah, I'm fascinated.

[A]

They should publish these findings for lonely dudes.

[B]

It's absolutely top secret.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Unclassified top secret game. We need to actually petition the German government.

[A]

I wonder if they use their powers for evil. Like, they got, like, discharged, but they just, like, kept picking up chicks with the, like, secret, like, Nazi ability to fucking do it.

[B]

Well, I feel like back in the day, the whole, like, two families was the minimum. You know what I mean? Like, like a guy having multiple families, like, two is like, completely fine.

[A]

Had to wear a lot of hats.

[B]

Right? Like, I feel like that was like the bare minimum and, like, social media's kind of kept us accountable nowadays. Yes, but back in the day, you'd have a bunch of families. And so I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3. Will that be cash or credit?

[A]

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I spoke to a gentleman on this very show. Jack Barsy, a very fine, charming and very intelligent spy for. For the Stasi. He was, he was technically kgb.

[A]

Uh huh. Did he riz you up?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, he absolutely did.

[A]

Spit in game. He was just like.

[B]

He's incredibly charming. Very, very funny. I shouldn't say very funny. He's, he's funny.

[A]

Right?

[B]

But he's a great guy. And he moved to America as a spy and then fell in love, had a child. And he loved his child so much that he didn't go back to his family in Eastern Europe.

[A]

He told me this during the FBI episode.

[B]

Crazy, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So let's fast forward to how this actually happens. A 12 year deception of Gabriella climb. 32 year old translator to the East Embassy.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

Nothing. Keep going.

[B]

Did you just black out?

[A]

Yeah. No, I thought, I thought you said a 30 year old translady. And I was like, whoa, you said translator. I was like, yeah.

[B]

Oh, there is a trans lady story. Good. Oh, you're gonna love this one. This one is. This one is ability for all. Her name is Bridget Macron. Okay. Have you heard of this whole thing?

[A]

Wait, is that. Is that Macron's wife?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Dude, they do this to everybody. They did it to Big Mike. They do it to everybody. They said Trudeau's getting cucked out by Idris Elba. They, you know, they really. That's, that's a piece of Canadian gossip. Is that Trudeau and his wife, I believe, had some sort of Wake up. And they say that Idris Elba is cracking dem cheeks, which I think would be an honor.

[B]

I just, yeah, I'm like, that seems like kind of a win.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know? Yeah. You're like, all right, yeah, dude, we're just. I'm training it.

[A]

Fishing in the same pond.

[B]

All right, so be it. Gabriella Klein. She's a 32 year old translator to the US embassy in West Germany. And she was a notable victim of the Romeo Project, which of all the things to be a victim of, this is probably better. Victimizations. Gabriella or Gabrielle, I don't know how the Germans say it. She met her Romeo, Frank Ditel, in 1977. He was just captivating, charming, blonde hair, blue eyes and a great stoic personality. And the two embark on a whirlwind romance with Frank proposing marriage within three months. But claiming that his job obligations required them to delay the wedding for several years. So you can use that.

[A]

That's a little red flag right there. Yeah. I want to marry you immediately, but it's just going to be a few years long engagement.

[B]

What's your job? I'm a spy, actually.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Over their 12 year relationship, Gabrielle, blinded by love, smuggled thousands of secret documents from the US Embassy to Frank, believing that she was helping him with his supposed humanitarian organization.

[A]

That's. See that's. I was, I was curious. I was like, why? What was his front?

[B]

He's doing a.

[A]

He's just like, I'm trying to help.

[B]

Yes. I'm just. And you can fix.

[A]

I will help the children.

[B]

Yeah, you can, you can fix me and you can help the kids of the world. And so basically, when the Stasi archives were open in 1990 after the fall of the Berlin Wall, Gabrielle learned that Frank Deitel was actually Dr. Rudolph Rech, a married East German agent who had manipulated her for over a decade. In her trial for espionage in 96, she expect one desperate question. Did he ever truly love me? And the answer is probably maybe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like this is a crazy side job. Like you can't. Like his main wife is like, yeah, he just travels for work. So what does he do? He works for the government falling in love and smashing American chicks.

[B]

Yeah. For our country. That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of a dream job.

[A]

Yeah. Do we ever get to hear like from his side?

[B]

Yeah. He was probably like, dude, I love my wife and I love my nation.

[A]

And I love my job.

[B]

And I love my job. If you do that, you'd never work again.

[A]

You love what you do. Never work a day. And I'm like, yeah, what do you do? I plow chicks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For a living.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the, for the greater good.

[B]

I'm so good at dicking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That I'm like getting paid by the government to do it.

[A]

He was a doctor.

[B]

Yeah. Literally.

[A]

Damn, dude.

[B]

Dr. Dick. One particularly skilled Romeo was a theater director. He was labeled a super Romeo by the East Germans due to his numerous conquests. He was sent to Paris in 61 to seduce an interpreter for NATO's command center. The interpreter, a devout Catholic, fell deeply in love with him. Believing he was a Danish intelligence officer, the Romeo convinced her to pass him top level secret NATO documents. But her guilt over their affair grew desperate for absolution. She demanded. She demanded to confess her sins. Ever resourcefully, the Romeo arranged for an East German agent disguised as a Catholic priest to Hear her confessions. The priest assured her that her actions were not sinful and that God supported her spying activities.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Wait, so she lied, saying she was an intelligence officer for a different country?

[B]

Basically. Yeah. Well, no, because basically she was working for the West Germans.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, we're doing the NATO. Oh, no, she was in Paris. She was helping NATO in Paris.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then this guy was being like, in Paris. We're playing it 20 times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, that's fire, but yeah. That's basically what she was doing, dude. She was. She was messing with the natoes and. And basically was like, hey, I'm gonna help the. You know, this. This Danish intelligence officer because what's the worst that could happen, right? You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

These. Yeah, these guys over in Denmark. They're good guys. And. And so she confessed her sins to a priest who was just his homie, which is just like the ultimate.

[A]

It's a great setup, right? Yeah.

[B]

Like, I'm Catholic. My wife is Catholic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Next time we go to confession, I'll be like, hey, you should see this priest I've been talking to.

[A]

You gotta have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you have the priest in your pocket, you're good.

[B]

Father Avery.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't know.

[A]

I got it.

[B]

He's a good guy.

[A]

It would be awesome to just be a priest, but just be just kind of like a gossip hoe and just be like, you did what? Like, you did what?

[B]

Girl, you are just worse.

[A]

Crazy. Crazy. Oh, my God. You're like drinking champagne. Tell me more.

[B]

Yeah, that's not a sin.

[A]

Yeah. Seven Hill Mary is. Whatever. He doesn't deserve you anyway. Exactly.

[B]

I mean, while you're in there being like, by the way, you should just let him stay out more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I mean, let him hang with them boys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's what I would do.

[A]

God is telling me that you need to let him join three more fantasy leagues and do the live draft. Dude.

[B]

I've actually. I know someone that this kind of happened to in real life.

[A]

They had a fake priest who was a homie.

[B]

Similar but different. I knew a guy that was dating a Jewish girl. He was not Jewish. She was. And they had this long, long relationship. She goes to Israel and gets really connected with her roots and, you know, like, her. Her family. And she speaks to a rabbi, just sort of like by, you know, happenstance. And the rabbi is kind of advising her in her faith and her role as a Jewish woman and says, you know, you really need to bring up your children Jewish. And do you have A boyfriend? She was like, yeah, I've been dating this guy a long time. And she was like. And he was like, oh, is he. Is he Jewish? And she was like, nah, he's not Jewish. He's Catholic. And he's like, that's going to be a problem. Have you guys talked about the faith? And she's like, yeah, he kind of wants to raise the kids Catholic, but maybe we could do, like a hatsy. Hatsy thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the rabbi was like, it's never going to work. You need to break up with him.

[A]

He's like, anyway, my boy Mortimer over here.

[B]

So she calls up this guy I know and was like, hey, we got to break up. And then fast forward many years. This guy, my friend, he was like, damn, I just can't believe, like, she talked to this rabbi and, like, kind of talked her out of our whole relationship, like, through my world into a whole, you know, spin cycle. And then he says that to one of his Jewish friends. And then his Jewish friend was like, oh, the rabbi trick.

[A]

The rabbi trick.

[B]

And he was like, what? And his friend was like, yeah, this happens all the time. People go to Israel and like, the dad sets up a rabbi that he knows and is like, hey, can you talk to my daughter? She's fucking around with this guy, and it's going to be a whole thing for the family, so just talk to her about it. Just see what happens. And so then she bumps into the rabbi somewhere, and then he just talks her into this whole thing and knows stuff about her life and then makes it happen.

[A]

Holy shit. The rabbi trick.

[B]

So I don't know, you heard it here first, folks.

[A]

Why you can't trust, though. No.

[B]

So I don't know if that's actually what happened in this case, but.

[A]

But it's a real thing.

[B]

My friend's friend was like, yeah, yeah, it's a real. It's a thing that happens. So it happened in this case as well. You go to the Catholic priest and.

[A]

He'S like, I wish I had something like that I could depend on, like, if I ever needed it, to just call in a favor.

[B]

Yeah, you would have to get, like, I feel like in your relationship, you guys are just like New York, you know, like cultured liberal types. So you would need, like, npr. You would need that. Dude, I don't know what your. What? Your wife listens to you.

[A]

It wakes up, she's listening to up first on NPR in the morning. It's like, Donald Trump has signed 12 executive orders. And also your husband needs to Stay up late and play video games for four straight days.

[B]

Exactly. And then maybe she just.

[A]

That's a great idea. Is fake load podcasts onto your significant other's phone with subliminal messaging.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's a good idea.

[B]

Exactly. So what happens with this Romeo Project? Great question, Joey. By the 1980s, as the Berlin Wall crumbles and German reunification loomed, the full extent of the Romeo Project came to light. In total, it's estimated that Marcus Wolf's romeo spies seduced 40 to 50 women, many of whom were tried and convicted for espionage in West Germany. And while many of these women had genuinely fallen in love, they were ultimately used as pawns in a dangerous game. Marcus Wolf goes to Moscow, but later returns to Germany, where he's sentenced to six years in prison for treason, though his conviction was eventually overturned. I don't know if that's treason. Right. It's two different countries.

[A]

Yeah. Wait, Marcus Wolff was tried for treason?

[B]

Yeah, he's the guy that put together the whole thing.

[A]

Why was it treason?

[B]

Because he was trying to subvert West Germany's sovereignty. And then when it reunifies, they were like, hey, you're a traitor. He's like, well, it was in a different country.

[A]

Right. The east and west thing threw me off. I was like, there's German. Exactly.

[B]

And, yeah, he ends up writing an autobiography. And he says this. The ends did not always justify the means we chose to employ. But as long as there is espionage, there will always be Romeo's seducing unsuspected Juliets with access to secrets. After all, I was running an intelligence service, not a lonely hearts club. So there you go.

[A]

But really, maybe it's not the intelligence we gathered, but the hearts that we mended along the way.

[B]

And that, I think, is kind of the. The big story here. Right.

[A]

Like what? You know, what's. It was beautiful. Time spent.

[B]

Yeah, Right.

[A]

Like, those memories, like, they might feel tainted, but you still got to have them.

[B]

It's better to have loved and lost.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To never have loved at all.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Right. I think that's in Shakespeare.

[A]

Romeo.

[B]

Let's talk about Carl and Hannah Koker, the Czechoslovakian couple who infiltrated the CIA. This one's wild. Right. Carl Kocher grew up in the heart of Czechoslovakia. Prague, specifically. Czechoslovakia, obviously, you know, no longer really a country. But at the time, he was not an ordinary man. Right. He was brilliant, ambitious, and capable of using his wit and charm to get what he wanted. In the late 20s, Carl caught the attention of Czechoslovakia's secret police. How did he catch their attention? They just saw him in a bar.

[A]

They're like, you, you fucking smokeshow. Get in here and be one of us. Immediate you could our nation at the top. You absolute stone cold fox.

[B]

Yeah, he's just a stallion. And they were like, hey, you're the guy. That's the stallion right there.

[A]

Look, he looks nude in that photo.

[B]

That's what it takes, all right.

[A]

Yeah, he's got the. He's like a Czechoslovakian. Tom Selleck.

[B]

Exactly, dude.

[A]

Magnum, Pl.

[B]

After years of careful grooming, they saw him and they saw his potential for something a little bit greater. Ok. A mission to penetrate. Mm.

[A]

Preach.

[B]

The CIA, one of the most secretive and powerful intelligence agencies in the world. So how do they do it? In 65, Carl and his wife Hannah were sent on a mission of a lifetime. They immigrated to the United States under the guise of defectors, fleeing the oppressive communist regime in Czechoslovakia. Okay, not all migrants, but some are spies. This cover allowed them to blend seamlessly into American society. It was a time when the United States welcomed defectors as trophies of the Cold War. Proof of the failures of communism. Yep. Hannah, with her striking beauty and charisma, began building her own life in America, establishing herself in the diamond industry. Meanwhile, Carl used his fluency in English and his academic credentials to work as a radio announcer and eventually earned a doctorate in philosophy from Columbia University. Look at that. Killing it. Their perfect assimilation to American life culminated in Carl becoming a naturalized US citizen in 71. Just one year later, he passed the rigorous CIA screening process and was hired as a translator and an analyst.

[A]

Wow, look at this. Once it's just have it all. We saw six foot three, dude with a mustache, and we were like, if he's not in the fucking CIA. And we always assume, I think America, we always assume. Like, once you are living this life, you're. You've got a doctorate, you're on the radio.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You're in the seat. Like, how could you possibly cross us? We've given you all of it. And we have McDonald's.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's like you kind of get the whole deal. Like, American culture is go back to.

[A]

Fucking eating goose and sausage for breakfast. Never the fuck.

[B]

Never in a million years.

[A]

And yet it happens. Yes.

[B]

And it gets even crazier. So once inside the CIA, Carl begins. Begins feeding valuable intelligence to his handlers back in Czechoslovakia. He was assigned to translate, analyze, and basically decode highly classified documents, including reports on American spying techniques and the identities of Soviet double agents. All the while, Hannah played Her role impeccably dazzling those around her with her beauty and charm. But behind the glitz and glamour, the Cokers had a far more sinister pastime. Would you like to guess what they did in their free time?

[A]

Were they swinging?

[B]

They were swinging in New York city and Washington, D.C. yes.

[A]

Come on. It was at the original Polly couple. I love how, like, they are tens for their era, but they're, like hard sixes now.

[B]

Isn't that crazy?

[A]

I think people have gotten hotter.

[B]

You would think.

[A]

Everyone says people have gotten uglier because, like, if you look at a photo of people on the beach, everyone's fat and looks horrible because of processed foods. But I think the ceiling is higher.

[B]

Well, here's an interesting thing, actually. It's our beauty standards, I genuinely think, that shift, and we don't even realize that. Christos, could you quickly Google for me Hollywood starlets with modern makeup? This is a fascinating.

[A]

That's interesting because it's something you don't. Marilyn Monroe with a bbl, and you're just like.

[B]

Oh, you're just like an Instagram girl. You know what I mean? Like. Yeah. So this is like a famous Hollywood starlet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With modern makeup. And click again. Another one, Click again. And all of them are, like, tens today.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And if you could see.

[A]

So it's just style. We're just used to our. The style that we.

[B]

Oof. So that's what she looked like in the time. And you're like, I don't know. And that's what she looks like with modern makeup.

[A]

Yeah. Keep going past it. Yeah.

[B]

And oh, I mean.

[A]

Oh, well, now we're getting.

[B]

I think that's just a nun.

[A]

Oh, sister.

[B]

And hold on. Keep going a little more.

[A]

Forgive me, mother, for I have sound. I'm sure some people like the previous look, but.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

The modern. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Maybe the hottest Hollywood starlet and also a genius. Hetty Lamar. Are you familiar with someone?

[A]

No, but I like her name. I've heard. I've heard the name, but I actually don't know. I don't.

[B]

She's a piece even for the time.

[A]

Yeah. So sounds like she plays for, like, an NFL team. You ain't gonna throw on Hedy Lamar. But no, she's a. That's what they called Nancy Reagan. Hey, Mark, come on.

[B]

No, but she's a. She's a gem, even.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she also invented.

[A]

She's nice, though.

[B]

I think she invented, like, Wi Fi or some.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, she, like. She was, like, mean. She was like an Inventor, like, she.

[A]

Like, was genuinely, like, invented WI fi.

[B]

Yeah, she like one of the people that was like, co collaborating with another inventor. Damn. And like, created the. Yeah, she was the mother of WI fi and for invention of frequency hopping. And it's a technique that rapidly switches, like between radio.

[A]

That they used to do back then.

[B]

That's actually what the Cokers were doing.

[A]

Frequency, frequency. That's right. All right, so back to these.

[B]

So at these sex parties, they were. That they were operating oftentimes that they were attending and both hosting. They were basically mingling.

[A]

Cleanup. Not the ideal. Like you thought. You thought you were pissed when people, like, left a dish or, like, took a Tupperware. It's like, your wife squirted on my couch. That's insane.

[B]

She popped my Faberge egg out of her vagina.

[A]

How quickly, like when you go swinging, like, how quickly do you stop being friends with people you like? I'm sure sometimes it sticks together, but like, imagine and then being like, ah, I don't know. We were supposed to do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it's like, Then it's like, you can't have them football anymore.

[B]

The post nut clarity is insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because like, then I. I couldn't even imagine, like, my wife comes back in the room and then like, all my swinging buddies are like, tap that, dude. Wait, what?

[A]

Imagine the post, not clarity. You come first and then you're like, yeah, I don't know if we should have done this. And then meanwhile, your wife's still getting plowed as you have pnc.

[B]

We don't have.

[A]

I'm not built for this.

[B]

We don't have swinger brain. Like, I think swingers simultaneously get off.

[A]

Not only they like the concept of. Yeah.

[B]

Not only do they like being in someone else's wife. Yeah. That their wife is getting banged.

[A]

Right. Because that's kind of hot.

[B]

So even when they're done, they can still be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm one gear.

[A]

Yeah. They have a. They. We have a famine mentality. They have an abundance mentality when it comes to sex and orgasms, and I respect them for that. I just don't know if I can get there with this particular topic.

[B]

But maybe that's a good thing because now you're not going to sell out our country.

[A]

That's true. Yeah, it's true.

[B]

So now these people are mingling with diplomats, military personnel, and even other intelligence agents, exploiting the uninhabited, uninhibited atmosphere to gather confidential information. Hana's magnetic personality drew men to her, while Carl's apparent nonchalant and intellectual Persona disarmed those who might have otherwise been suspicious. This is.

[A]

I think this is going to be a question that we end up at a lot during this episode where I'm like, what percentage of them is great spies and what percentage of them love swinging? Like, they might just. It's probably both.

[B]

Right? And what makes you such a great sex being a spy?

[A]

Right.

[B]

That you love both? That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah. So love of country, love of box.

[B]

One love of country and one of love of box.

[A]

Oh, nice. Yeah.

[B]

You can't spell country without bleep that.

[A]

All right.

[B]

That you're. You get demonetized for that word. You can't say it.

[A]

Ah, I see.

[B]

For anyone not listening, it is a good pun. Yeah.

[A]

You should just add in a robot voice. You can't spell country without vagina.

[B]

One such partygoer later recalled that Carl would often boast about his access to classified documents, enticing others to reveal their.

[A]

Own secrets in the middle of dirty little. Give me those documents. Let me file those documents in your ass.

[B]

Let me go looking for them with. The couple's unconventional methods allowed them to obtain valuable intelligence, including sensitive details about U. S. Nuclear strategy and where the CLIT Is. No, they never figured that out. It's a little part of the bottom, I think. Anyway. Incredibly, despite the high profile nature of these gatherings, they operated undetected for years. I should clarify. Undetected as spies, they were easy.

[A]

Everyone knew they were trying to fuck everybody. Well, yeah, because if you had a hand, you're like, I wonder if they're spies. People are like, how do you know? It's like, I don't know. I don't actually hang out that much.

[B]

I never.

[A]

A little bit of shame goes a long way in the spy game.

[B]

It's genius, is. So while Carl was initially working for the Czech secret police and intelligence, his relationship with the agency soured over time. They grew suspicious that he might be operating as a double agent for the Americans and ordered him to resign from the CIA.

[A]

Can't trust a swinger.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Like you might be. He might be. Country swinging.

[B]

Yeah. Like if you're willing to let your wife get dogged out. Yeah.

[A]

Cares about Prague. You're letting your wife get in the ass by the chief of staff of the army.

[B]

Yeah. Like. Like no one. No one's trustable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So after a week of this is.

[A]

Why you can't do this, dude. You end up staying up late at night, freaking out. You're like, hold on.

[B]

Yeah. So Carl really stepped in it here. But after a week of brutal interrogation back in Czechoslovakia, Carl returned to New York and stepped away from his role at the CIA, seemingly leaving the world of espionage behind. And that's the end of the story.

[A]

I like those two.

[B]

Psych. In the early 1980s, as tensions between the US and the Soviet Union escalated under Reagan, the KGB saw an opportunity. What did they do? Head from Nancy to get ahead of Nancy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They approached Carl, urging him to return to the CIA. Despite his brief hiatus, the CIA took him back with little hesitation, allowing him to continue his work as an agent.

[A]

We've got to be better at that, right? Yeah, like, you got to be way better.

[B]

You gotta think one of the girls he was banging is probably now high up at the side, right?

[A]

He's like, like, yeah, come on back.

[B]

Come on. They always come back. They always come back.

[A]

Well, yeah, or. Or imagine it's a guy and it's like, like, yeah, this. He let me. His wife. I'm for sure letting him come back and work for the company.

[B]

That was definitely a part of the interview.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How's your wife doing? Yeah, she still looks good. Yeah.

[A]

Show me a pic.

[B]

Yeah. So basically he gets back and said, hey. And he basically continues his work. However, what Carl didn't realize was that this time the CIA was suspicious. What's up, people? We're gonna take a break really quick because it has been alleged that I smell. This has been said countless times. It is complete slander. I don't believe this to be true. But word has gotten out from the flagrant boys that apparently I smell. Again, it's not true. Anyone around me, ask anyone, and they'll confirm that this is not the case. But the people over at Mando, they reached out and they said, hey, if you're concerned about putting aluminum on your body, a lot of other products may have this. They might have aluminum that's actually inside their products. And you put it right on your lymph nodes. Mando said, hey, we have a solution for you. Okay? Because this right here, whole body deodorant. That's right. Whole body, no aluminum. None of the bad stuff that's going to, you know, potentially cause issues for you, health wise. Okay? Look into it. You want to know what I love about Mando? Mando is clinically proven to control odor better than a shower with soap alone. Isn't that crazy? Stop showering. You don't need a shower anymore. Think about how many hours you waste showering every single day, right? Like, think about that in your total lifetime. It's probably years of your life spent showering with Mando. You get the time back to be making money with Mando. You're going to get a ton of great smelling scents and fragrances. You're going to get deodorant wipes. You're going to get this whole body deodorant package. This is an invisible cream. I mean, you can. I use all of them at the same time just so I can spend more time with my grandmother. So if you're interested in getting time back, spending time with your dying loved ones and not showering ever again, what I want you to do is I want you to go to Shopmando, that's S-H-O-P Mando M A N--O.com and use the promo code CAMP. That's right, Shopmando.com use the promo code camp. And for the listeners of this show, when you get the starter pack again, the starter pack is going to have everything you need. You're going to have a cream tube, you're going to get the solid stick deodorant. You're going to get two free products of your choice like the deodorant wipes and you know, maybe the spray, maybe the, you know, mini body wash, whatever it is that you would like. You're gonna get $5 off when you use the promo code camp. So if you're interested, check it out. Shopmando.com now let's get back to the show. What's up guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because you need more time. It is the most valuable commodity that exists. And Huel is going to help you do that. All right? If you're like me, you're constantly on the go. You're constantly running late. I mean, every time I'm leaving my house, I'm going out the door and I'm like, I forgot to eat today. And then I find myself just eating garbage, like throughout. I'm like going to the bodega or corner store just grabbing like sugary nonsense or even if I'm trying to E times, it's packed with stuff that's terrible for me. And that's why I love hu. All right? Hu is everything you need. It is a complete balanced meal, all in this convenient, beautiful little bottle. In this bottle, I'm telling you right now, you're going to get everything you need to power you through the day. 35 grams of protein, 25 vitamins and minerals, 7 grams of dietary fiber. I mean, omega 3, omega 6, everything that you need. I mean, it is a scientific process to put all the nutrients packed into this bottle. Not only is it extremely convenient and you can take it on the go with you anywhere you need. It's ext healthy. 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Stop eating garbage all day. Get something that actually nourishes your body, empowers you for all the tough things that life might throw at you. Do let's get back to the show. They're like, you step away, you take a hiatus. You go to the devils. So by November 1984, the life of luxury and intrigue that the cokers had carefully constructed began to unravel. A tip off from a defector alerted the FBI to Carl's treachery one morning.

[A]

Treacherous. Crazy. It is treacherous what they're doing. It is truly tying you up and spanking you.

[B]

One morning, the glamorous life of BMWs and mink coats and swinging parties came to a screeching halt as the FBI arrested the couple at their New York City apartment. Faced with mounting evidence, Carl confessed.

[A]

Yeah, Mounting evidence. Evidence of mounting.

[B]

It's just a towel under a black light. He's like, my bad. There you go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah. He basically confessed to passing highly sensitive information to the kgb, including the identity identities of Soviet double agents and details of US Nuclear strategy. The revelation sent shockwaves throughout the intelligence community, which many of them responded I don't know what they're talking about.

[A]

Yeah. I have no idea what parties.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's fucking crazy.

[B]

This highlighted the vulnerabilities of even the most sophisticated agencies. If a man like Carl Koechner, who openly flaunted his eccentricities, could infiltrate the CIA, who else might be lurking in the shadows?

[A]

You know, I'm, I'm Team usa, obviously, but I like them, but kudos to them. Yeah. Fun couple.

[B]

Yeah. It was basically in the time sensationalized in the press. In court, the couple's scandalous double life was laid bare. No pun intended.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And complete with all the salacious details about the swinger lifestyle. He was sentenced to life in prison while Hana was also implicated as an accomplice. But the Cochner story didn't end behind bars. February 1986, two years after his arrest, Carl and Hannah were swapped. Yeah.

[A]

They were not for the first time.

[B]

In a prisoner jail. In a prisoner's sex change. Sorry. Exchange in Berlin as they cross the bridge in East.

[A]

A nightclub for them.

[B]

Yeah. Imagine they go back to East Berlin and a gold Mercedes awaits them, ready to whisk them back to their homeland. Hana now organizes seminars while Carl, retired, spends his days reading or exercising in a nearby forest. Despite the whispers of suspicions that nearby force.

[A]

This guy's awesome. Dude is awesome.

[B]

He just works out.

[A]

He's doing pull ups on a. Yeah.

[B]

Does cold plunges and just chills.

[A]

Oh, God, he did it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a gold Mercedes.

[B]

And they live a regular life. Two years in prison to be a spy in America and also spy.

[A]

Do you think they kept swinging when they got back to Germany? Is it even in Germany? Is even swinging or is it just normal? I don't. These are questions.

[B]

I wonder if they go back and people are like, so you guys seem like a cool couple. You have a cool vibe.

[A]

Yeah. Like.

[B]

And they're like, whoa.

[A]

Yeah. Whoa.

[B]

We don't do that.

[A]

Yeah. Whoa.

[B]

We're spies.

[A]

That's fudgeing crazy. It's like asking a comedian to tell a joke.

[B]

Yeah. Like what? Yeah, like going up to a porn star, being like, hey, baby, you want to have. She's like, well, I'm an actress.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. I don't.

[A]

Then you're like, here's $80. She's like, 100%.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I wonder. I bet you he would do that even for like petty secrets. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like even just like, where are my keys?

[A]

I can't find them.

[B]

They're like a reservation at like a nice restaurant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You want to bang my wife?

[A]

Yeah, just come on.

[B]

Because at a certain point, like if you know you can do it, you know.

[A]

Yeah, you broke the seal.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So we got a couple. I mean, we got, we got so many great ones.

[A]

That was a fun one. I enjoyed that.

[B]

This one is.

[A]

I'm just surprised how few of these are like shows in Hollywood.

[B]

You would think like, this is, this.

[A]

Is a fucking layup, guys.

[B]

Right?

[A]

People love this shit. Sex, sex, intrigue. Cold war era where we had a clearer concept of good and evil.

[B]

Now let's go and talk about our buddy Richard Miller.

[A]

Dick.

[B]

Dick. Which actually I think the name of my high school principal.

[A]

Dick Miller.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B.

[B]

But with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be to be. Get the Angel REEF Special at McDonald's. Now let's break it down. My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon. Pickles. Pickles. Onions and a sesame seed bun, of course. And don't forget the fries and a drink. Sound good? I participate in restaurants for a limited time.

[A]

That's a good principal name.

[B]

They all called him Dick.

[A]

It's an ideal principal name.

[B]

Yeah, it's like an all time. And he was a great name.

[A]

Is a good name. Obviously it's, you know, it means Dick. But also it's like when you set that aside, it's solid.

[B]

They're phasing that out though.

[A]

There's a lot of dicks.

[B]

I wanted to name my kid Richard.

[A]

You did?

[B]

Yeah. But I feel like Dick Gagnon was a tough.

[A]

That's awesome. Is great.

[B]

That was a tough one to pull.

[A]

And then you just get your mind out of the gutter.

[B]

Yeah, dude, his name, his name's Dick Gagnon. But this guy was not my high school.

[A]

And if you make a joke about his sister, I swear to God. I swear to God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Look your mind out of the gutter. Let Dick and pussy enjoy their lives in peace.

[B]

We just named our kids after the place they were conceived. Received. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's all.

[A]

It was what we want them to.

[B]

Grow up to Be precisely this guy. Not my principal, but a different dude. Oh. Born in a working class section of Wilmington, California, 1936.

[A]

Got a bit of an Asian look.

[B]

You can see it. He might just be fat. Yeah, there's a level of fatness. Yeah, you just kind of look a little sumo.

[A]

There is like a zeitgeisty thing that I've noticed has hit the Internet due to one of Shane Gillis's popular jokes where I think people in a comment section would say, he looks like he's making them at night.

[B]

Yeah. It is crazy how that is just pervaded, like casual.

[A]

Like, do you want to know one thing that that is. Is. Has helped it spread is there are a bunch of fake. Like, Shane doesn't have a Facebook account. And I texted him these fake Shane accounts because they're so embarrassing. But these bots make fake Shane Gillis accounts. And they repeatedly post photos of grilled cheese and say, I'm making them at night with like six, like, emojis. Like, shit. Shane would never do a million likes. Millions of millions of likes. And all these comments and then people being like, all right, bro, that's enough. It's just one bit. And I'm like telling Shane like, hey, get these taken down. He's like, fog, this sucks. But they keep popping up. And then I start seeing the joke everywhere and I'm like, it's kind of working.

[B]

Yeah. No, it's genuinely like, I had a friend that said that in a group chat and I was like, haha, Love Gillis. And he goes, who?

[A]

What?

[B]

I was like, how do you not know?

[A]

He's like, no, I love Chinese bot farms on Facebook. Who is Shane Gillis?

[B]

I mean, that's how popular this guy is. It's just become like he's become a. Like his jokes are now their own.

[A]

They look at Shane and they're like, he's making them at night.

[B]

He's just become like, his jokes become like their own. It's insane. If.

[A]

I guess, if anyone doesn't understand that he has a joke about a. A family member with down syndrome who makes grilled cheese in the evening.

[B]

I don't mean to be pedantic or, you know, make you feel bad, but the listeners of this program know that they absolutely. I mean, if they don't, they should stop listening.

[A]

I don't. I just.

[B]

We.

[A]

You never know when you're talking to a microphone. Corner of the Internet that no one has found before if you're a dog. I had Sean Gardeni on my podcast all Right.

[B]

No plug. No plugging.

[A]

It's called the Joey Show. Check it out.

[B]

Anyway, so this guy, Richard Miller, okay, I don't believe is Asian, was getting a degree in Spanish and then was later recruited into the FBI because they were desperate for Spanish speaking agents with clean records.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was pretty easy back in the day. It seems like both.

[A]

Richard Miller, he got into the cookie jar, brother.

[B]

He was actually making them a night. He's not. He's not. He just loves a grill.

[A]

He was eating a lot of grilled cheese and respect that.

[B]

Yeah. He quickly turns into a disappointment. He's 5 9, 250 pounds, strobes with obesity. Throughout his career, his colleagues regarded him as an oddity. A bumbling, unkempt agent with a penchant for spending long lunches at a local 7 11, reading comic books and even stealing candy bars.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

It was rumored that he lost his service weapon, misplaced his FBI credentials, and used his government issued car to sell Amway products from the truck.

[A]

Oh, this guy is ripe. Ripe for one woman to come attack is what I'm envisioning, dude. I mean, this dude would be like selling Cutco knives, you know, just doing all mlm.

[B]

Imagine some guy pulls up in an FBI credentialed vehicle with a gun and he's like, you guys try and buy insurance. Whatever. Whatever the Amway sells.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

It's insane. His performance evaluations painted the picture of an agent who barely scraped by. How was this not a movie? One of his colleagues, a former FBI Special Agent Gary Aldrich, described Miller as, quote, one of the dumbest, most unkept, most unpopular misfits the agency ever hired.

[A]

This is something that I didn't realize until I was in college. But no matter what college you go to, no matter what agency you're in, no matter what, like high echelon of society, you get to. There are fucking idiots there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like you would assume if you get to Harvard or somewhere, like, I went to UC San Diego, it's like a good school. And you'd think like, okay, it was hard for me to get here. Everyone here is going to be top performer. Not the case.

[B]

Have you heard?

[A]

There's going to be dregs everywhere.

[B]

Have you heard of the Peter Principle?

[A]

No.

[B]

This is a fascinating theory that basically states that people are promoted to the positions where they are no longer competent.

[A]

I actually have. Right.

[B]

Yeah. This is a thing that you've probably seen at your job. You just didn't necessarily know the name game. But literally it's like, okay, you do good at, like, entry level.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you get promoted to, like, you know, upper, you know, management or something. And then you get promoted again to executive, and that's where you're bad.

[A]

You keep rolling till you suck. And they say everyone sucks at everything, basically. Literally, except for people on the rise.

[B]

Exactly. And so you get a guy that's good, and he's gonna get promoted out to where he's bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then eventually just have everyone in their perfect levels of incompetence. Yeah.

[A]

I think that happens in a lot of areas of life. I mean, it's jobs, it's fame, it's talent. It's like podcast in a lot of ways. It's comedy, for sure.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Everyone's like, man, this guy's underrated. The second you're rated appropriately, people like, that guy. He's an idiot.

[B]

When I was getting a thousand views an episode, everyone's like, dude, you deserve way more. And then I get a million. Everyone's like, this guy sucks is his. So I'm like, whoa, whoa, bring me down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Keep me in a nice, neutral level. Everyone's like, no, he deserves.

[A]

And it is. It is nice when sometimes you see that and you're like, you know, that hurt a little bit. But, hey, not saying you're 100% wrong. All I'm doing is what I'm doing. What happens is what happens. I'm just trying to work hard.

[B]

I've seen comments on, like, episodes that do really good. People will be like, this doesn't deserve this many views. And I go, I'm with you.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Well, definitely does not go ahead and.

[A]

Phone the extra 25,000 people that. That push it over the top for you, and let's go ahead and make them focus on something else.

[B]

Yeah, I'm with you a million percent. All right, so anyway.

[A]

Oh, he's a Mormon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Went to byu.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think he eventually goes on a mission, learns Spanish perfectly while studying Spanish in school, and makes them great for the agency. For the record, a lot of Mormons end up becoming great agents because they go to study on their missions and speak a perfect language.

[A]

This is actually what I talked about on my. My podcast with Sean Gardini.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. The Mormon Deep state.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

And he's very dubious of the Mormons.

[B]

No, I mean, look, have we talked about this? I've talked about this at length on this podcast that I love the Mormon way of life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm an ardent supporter despite not believing any of the doctrinal or dogmatic elements.

[A]

Proof that you can build something beautiful on top of a lie.

[B]

It's crazy. Like, I'm pretty sure Mary Kay. You're familiar with Mary Kay, The MLM Marketing I makeup company.

[A]

Mueller sells.

[B]

Sells it out of his trunk, literally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was started by a Mormon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All of these like. Like, influencer mommy Instagram pages. Many of them.

[A]

They're good in an organization because they're used to being in an organization.

[B]

Organizationally brilliant. They're great at selling because they spend years selling the most vulnerable thing in their lives, and they happen to speak fucking Taiwanese.

[A]

Get them to believe almost anything.

[B]

So it's just kind of went across the board.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I might be Mormon. I could see that on paper.

[A]

Have you watched American Primeval?

[B]

No. I've seen. It's good, though. It's good. It's about Mormons.

[A]

It is. It's like. It's like a westward expansion show. And you have kind of like the US Armies, some random settlers, and then, like. But it takes place kind of in. In, of course, like, the Shoshone and other native tribes. And then. But it's while the Mormons are trying to, like, take over Utah, and it's pretty damn good.

[B]

Don't ruin it.

[A]

I'm not. I'm just saying it's good. I don't. I. I'm not a. I watch shit late, so I'm very spoiler averse. I don't give away stuff.

[B]

Well. If I get another stomach flu, I'm watching the entire thing.

[A]

Do it.

[B]

So a psychologist evaluates him in 1982 and concludes that Miller was emotionally unstable and should be placed in a harmless role until his retirement. Despite all this, he managed to hang on, remaining employed by the Bureau for 20 years. It was his combination of incompetence and desperate need for validation that ultimately made.

[A]

Him a great comedian, one of the.

[B]

Best comedians, and also a perfect target for the kgb, which, for the record, if the FSB or any other intelligence agency, Mossad, whatever it may be, is interested, go at comedians. They could easily recruit comedians 100% and manipulate me into.

[A]

But the problem is we don't have any power or intrigue or know anything.

[B]

There are dozens of people listen to this show.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

I can. Could I. I could. I could pedal any type of propaganda, y'all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So let me introduce you to a woman named Svetlana O. Keva.

[A]

Thank you. What a pleasant introduction.

[B]

A Gordonova Agordnikova. Can we Get a picture of Svetlana Gordon. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, there she is. I was gonna say, good luck spelling that one.

[B]

She is a charismatic, beautiful, brilliant Russian woman, allegedly, that has ties to the kgb. Svetlan, along with her husband Nikolai, had immigrated to the United States in 1973. And by the early 1980s, she was deeply involved in espionage activities. But 1984, Miller's life is just in shambles. I mean, he's stealing candy bars. I mean, he's falling apart. Yeah.

[A]

He's reading comic books.

[B]

His marriage has deteriorated. He's facing financial troubles. He'd even been excommunicated from the church. Latter Saturday Saints for adultery. Feeling neglected, he was cheating. As if he's around.

[A]

Come on, Dick.

[B]

Feeling neglected and desperate, he becomes an easy target for Svetlana's seduction. She approaches him with a mixture of flirtation and intrigue, promising him a chance at love, financial reward, and excitement. For Miller, this was a chance to live out the adventures that he had always dreamed of.

[A]

Russian. A Russian chick.

[B]

Literally.

[A]

Okay, I don't even know if that's her. I don't think that's.

[B]

It's a type. It's a type. Yeah, it's. You get the idea, right?

[A]

Looks like the type of lady who would have several smaller ladies inside of her.

[B]

A KGB nesting doll. That's what they call them. Could you search spy at the end of that? And maybe that'll give us what we need here. Yeah.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

So I could see it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, and also, like, this guy, you know, nothing to write home about. I mean, she's got a little. Got a little vibe. Vibe, but.

[B]

And we don't even know what the body is. Right. The body might be on revenge, so who knows? Imagine she pulls up on you.

[A]

I kind of like it. Yeah.

[B]

You're sitting in a car.

[A]

Well, not that one. No offense to that modern Svetlana. It's all right.

[B]

So their affair heats up, and Svetlana dangled promises of 50,000 in gold, 15,000 in cash if Miller would just. Just hang out with her, chat with her to the wee hours of the morning.

[A]

He bought that.

[B]

And pass over some classified F. This.

[A]

Way, hot chick is like, I'll give you gold. I'll give you gold to hang out with me and just, like, share stuff.

[B]

Right? And he obviously should see this, right? Like, he should know what's going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he does. Ooh, psych again. He hands over all of his information. Confidential secrets about, you know, counterintelligence. And he believed he could Manipulate the situation to his advantage, thinking he was using Svetlana's sort of flirtation relationship to infiltrate the kgb.

[A]

Oh, nice. So he was aware he was doubling up.

[B]

Exactly. He was like, I'll just grab some.

[A]

Puss on the way in.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Look, everyone thinks I'm a loser. Yeah, everyone is.

[A]

How about I smash and infiltrate the case?

[B]

Oh, and then who's an idiot?

[A]

Bring back a little bit of that.

[B]

And then who's a fucking loser? Am I right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what do you think happens?

[A]

I think he doesn't infiltrate the kg.

[B]

So Svetlana plays him like a fiddle and expertly milks him for every secret that he could provide.

[A]

I'm sure he just wanted to be milked.

[B]

So he quickly begins to. He. He unravels. Basically. He brags about his newfound connection with the kgb, convinced that he was on the brink of launching a daring double agent operation that would turn him into a hero. However, his clumsy approach and bumbling execution made him stick out like a sort thumb. Things kind of got bad when Miller and Svetlana took a trip to the Soviet consulate in San Francisco in 1984. The FBI, suspicious of Miller's activities, placed wiretaps on both their phones and installed listening devices in their cars. By September, Miller's intentions became clear to his superiors when they intercepted information suggesting that he was planning to fly to Vienna, Austria, to meet with a KGB agent. By the time Miller's ruse was exposed, the FBI caught him red handed, giving classified documents to Svetlana, making him the first FBI agent in history to be arrested for espionage.

[A]

So did he think he was going to join the KGB and be a double agent, but for Russia, he wasn't thinking, like, oh, I'll. Okay, I got it.

[B]

No, no. He was thinking, I'm going to join.

[A]

The KGB, but then bring secrets back to the U.S. why did he just tell the FBI, Hey, I'm going to try this?

[B]

Because he probably brought it to their desk, and they're like, miller, you're a fucking idiot. You're sitting in your car all day. You can't even be a Mormon.

[A]

And he, like, spits the snickers out of his mouth. Shut up.

[B]

Him.

[A]

You don't know. I'm gonna do what Spider man would do. He thought he was gonna get stuck in a phone booth.

[B]

I mean, this should be a movie. Like, I don't know how. This isn't like a slap.

[A]

These are all movies.

[B]

It's crazy right there.

[A]

You or I even wanted to write a script. We'd Be cooking right now.

[B]

Dude, we are the real geniuses of Hollywood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they just don't get it.

[A]

They don't get it at all.

[B]

So he basically.

[A]

Agents.

[B]

He basically gets exposed, and he argues that he was trying to flip Svetlana and use her as an informant. Obviously, everyone's like, you're a fucking idiot. And his arrest becomes a national embarrassment. Yeah. For the Bureau. During his trial, the FBI painted a picture of an inept, overweight agent, which seems rude. You don't have to paint a picture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, you just. Just look at him sitting right here.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Let him cook or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

He's like, I'm not that fat. Like, what the hell? It was seed oils. He was so hungry.

[A]

Okay. And anyway, so basically, does it make you hungrier? I shouldn't ask you these questions.

[B]

Oh, it's a real problem because the seed oils, they. They think that they're satiating you and you're getting all these like, fake ultra high processed things in your food, but it actually makes you hungrier, so you continue to consume.

[A]

So this is why when you're at McDiesel's, you can just put them back.

[B]

Exactly. And you're like, I'm eating so much, but somehow I'm not hungry or I'm not satiated. Yeah. And it's really all just a trick to get you consumed more. All right. The beauties of late stage capitalism. Anyway, Miller's attorney, Joel Levine, famously described him as was not a perfect man and, you know, a bad FBI agent. Sure. Miller himself tried to portray his actions as brave, albeit misguided, attempt to turn Svetlana into a double agent. He claimed that he was attempting to revive his FBI career by trying to infiltrate the kgb. Quote, I felt I could do what nobody had done before, infiltrate an active Soviet intelligence network. Miller testified. I had a James Bond kind of fantasy.

[A]

Yeah, he did.

[B]

He said in, quote, court on the record, I'd come out a hero.

[A]

He kind of got. I mean, he got close. It's worth the old college try.

[B]

Well, he was found guilty of espionage and bribery and sentenced to two consecutive life terms plus 50 years for additional charges.

[A]

That is tough.

[B]

While his case was headline news, the Ogorod Novik faced their own legal battles. Both Svetlana and Nikolai pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit espionage in 85. Nikolai was sentenced to eight years, but was released after serving five. Svetlana, who maintained her innocence sentence, insisting that Miller had never given her any classified information, that she was just banging him for the love of the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Received an 18 year sentence.

[A]

Just love big boys.

[B]

Yeah. Pretty crazy, this guy. Lawrence Lawler, an FBI special agent in charge of the Los Angeles office at the time, subbed up the agency's feelings, saying it's a bittersweet victory. We've convinced we've convicted someone of espionage. Unfortunately, it's a former FBI agent.

[A]

It's a tough look.

[B]

Not great, you know.

[A]

No, he just, you know, he reached that point where he's just trying things, you know, like sometimes you just get to a point in your life where you're like, well, things aren't working out.

[B]

So time for a big change.

[A]

Let's. We got to get hit a home run here. Enough. You know, if I'm not getting singles, I'm. I'm behind. It's the ninth inning. We need to swing for the fences. And usually you strike out. Sometimes you strike out might connect and.

[B]

You might get a lifetime in prison. Plus 50.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, let me tell you about maybe my favorite one. And I don't even know all the details about this. Yeah, I just did like a sort of tertiary deep dive and so a lot of this will be news to me. But let me introduce you to she PI poo.

[A]

And that's been the episode. Thank you guys so much.

[B]

I mean, you give it a try. You. You.

[A]

Let me see the spelling. S H I S H I P E I P E I P U. Yeah, I mean the only way I could take it is pay she pepu.

[B]

Which is much better.

[A]

Hey, what's up, girl?

[B]

All right, well you're gonna. That's okay. Okay.

[A]

Actually this is a translator. I have a feeling we might have a translator on our hands. Yeah.

[B]

So basically the winner of 64 looks.

[A]

Like an off Broadway Shen Yun. That'll suck your dick in the alley.

[B]

This is the woman that broke up the Beatles. Okay. If you're familiar with that, she's a secret agent that destroyed one of the greatest mop top groups from Liverpool in 64. In Beijing, all right, at the French embassy at their Christmas party, this guy Bernard Borsico, a young 20 year old accountant newly stationed at the embassy, found himself drawn to the this enigmatic, striking figure.

[A]

She was dunking a basketball at the time.

[B]

She was boxing for Algeria and had an untarnished record of 39,000. And she was also a 26 year old opera singer and actor. Her striking features captivated Borsico though her Adam's abs. All right, I mean, just the balls in this woman. She was dressed as though she was Dressed as a man. There was this ethereal femininity.

[A]

She was dressed as a man.

[B]

I. I'll be honest, I don't really know which pronouns to use in this part of the.

[A]

I think she, pay poo are the.

[B]

My pronouns are she, so I don't really know exactly what to say. So basically, this guy sees she strike and sees the striking features. And although she was dressed as a man, there was this ethereal femininity about him. Her that set she, him, pew apart from everyone else in the room. She is fluent in French with a knack for charming. The audience struck up a conversation with Borsigo. They quickly formed a connection, and they started sharing tales of, you know, life and revealing that he taught Chinese to families of embassy workers. As their bond grew, she began to weave an elaborate story, one that would entrap Borsico for the next 20 years.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

She claimed that she was actually a woman forced to live as a man by the father who desperately wanted a son. I believe that this revelation was shocking to Borsico, who had only been in homosexual relationships.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Here at last, was the opportunity to be with a woman. Mm. A match made.

[A]

Now, this is amazing. In heaven.

[B]

In heaven, dude. Truly. So he's gay. Right.

[A]

And he. But he wanted to be straight to some degree.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Given the time, he wasn't allowed to be free.

[B]

Yeah. He's French, so we don't even know how gay he was or if he's just a. French. French.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And now there is this woman that has to live as a man.

[A]

Okay. Now, I don't. At any point in the story, do we know, did he slide a hand between the legs? Do we know, like, what we were working with here?

[B]

I think we're gonna find out. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Their romance began with secret meetings in darkened rooms. Which part of this that I'm partially concerned about is like, so I guess this is now a masculine woman that he's like, oh, I get to be with this person. I still don't even really understand the genital situation going on here, which maybe is rude to speculate, but I think it's probably important.

[A]

It's part of the story is the only reason I care.

[B]

Right. So part of me is like, I don't. I think this. I don't know what part is real or not yet. Right. Okay. So we're to. We're going to figure this out. The romance begins with secret meetings. Darken rooms. She insists I'm going to say shy for this, because I feel like otherwise.

[A]

It sounds like we're saying she is.

[B]

A lady and I don't even know really what's going on.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Shai insisted on maintaining the darkness during their intimate encounters. Turn the lights off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because of traditional Chinese modesty. And Borsico, mesmerized by the mystery, accepted these terms without question. Question.

[A]

He enjoyed the world's driest vagina over and over, over again. In the dark.

[B]

Yes. And as their relationship deepened, the Chinese government took notice. Here was a French embassy employee entangled with a supposed woman. Sensing an opportunity, Chinese intelligence agents approached, approached Xi Pei Pew to use this relationship with Borsico to extract classified information from the French Embassy. Borsico had no idea that his lover had turned into a spy. When Shai began to ask for embassy documents, Borsico rationalized it as an act of love. He naively believed that the information that he handed about my work. Yeah, like someone really cares. He handed over information. Okay. And just kind of believed that the information that he handed over, which included 500 documents during his time in Beijing and later in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia, was insignificant. Just a small gesture of devotion. But to the Chinese government, it was critical intelligence. As Borsico was stationed in different countries, their meetings became infrequent, but their bond remained strong. In 69, while Borsico was posted in Ulan Batar, Shai surprised him with a child, a four year old boy named Shy Dudu. Not joking. That's the name, bro. I'm telling you. Shy claimed that this child was the result of their love born through an intricate process that he.

[A]

It would make sense that a butt baby is named Doo Doo.

[B]

Can you just find out? Christos, is Shy Pei Pew born biologically male or not?

[A]

Or did. Yeah, did. Did this. I want to use the correct. Let's say she. She's saying she's a lady. Right. So for now, did she. If she wasn't capable of doing that the old fashion. Did she just snatch up a Chinese baby?

[B]

I understand. Actually, this is a man that was born a man that lied about being born a woman. I think.

[A]

I see. But it is a little confusing.

[B]

So he's born a biological male.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And pretends to a woman, but is.

[A]

Pretending to be a woman. That is pretending to be a man.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That is a little tricky.

[B]

Now this guy Borsico is.

[A]

Is a gay gu who's like, finally.

[B]

I could be with a woman that's actually a guy.

[A]

It would have been so easy if they just removed one lie. And it's like, yeah, you're gay. I'm a dude.

[B]

Let's fucking get it right. I'm wondering if maybe there's a part of the story that we're getting all mixed around, but basically. Yeah. I mean, make.

[A]

Yeah, here we go. Can you read that?

[B]

The French doctors sent to examine Pei Pew discovered he created the appearance of having female genitalia by making his testicles ascend into his body cavity and tucking his penis is back.

[A]

The old man works every goddamn time.

[B]

Wow. I mean, what are the odds? Okay.

[A]

Tucking it back.

[B]

So I think we can say he.

[A]

I think so. I mean, this is what it's saying here. Yes, I think we can say he.

[B]

I mean, I wouldn't want to misgender.

[A]

A spawn sucking their genitals, their testicles into their body and tucking their. Their dong back.

[B]

Yeah. So literally.

[A]

I love how the dark room just fixes that. I mean, this guy was so gay that he was like, clear. Wow. Vagina. It's exactly what I like. Yeah.

[B]

What are the odds?

[A]

Perfect.

[B]

I'm straight this whole time. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? So basically, she proposes him shy. Excuse me. Proposes him with a child. Surprises him with a child. 4 year old boy named Shy Doo doo. Shy claimed that his child was a result of their love, born through an intricate process that he insisted Borsico would never understand due to the mystical ways of Chinese tradition. Desperate to believe that their love had produced a son, Borsico accepted Shai's story without question. He took the boy into his heart, feeling that this was the ultimate proof of Shai's femininity. In truth, Shy Dudu was an adopted Uyghur boy from China's Xinjiang province.

[A]

Damn. The Uyghur has been getting the short end of the stick forever, right?

[B]

The shitty end of the stick.

[A]

And then he takes it him. And now we have Uyghurs in Paris.

[B]

It always comes back Balsam Titan. French doctors tasked with examining Shy to confirm the gender discovered the truth. Biological male. And his ability to mimic female genitalia was an elaborate deception as we've previously explained. Explained.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The explanation stunned the medical professionals that, you know, this technique of, I mean, tucking, which is now what all drag queens do, created the illusion of female anatomy during the encounters with Borsico. When faced with this revelation, Borsico was devastated. The man.

[A]

It's just square one. Although I guess the child is the. Yeah.

[B]

And all the secret doctors.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's right.

[B]

The man he had loved for nearly two decades was not only a spy, but also not a Woman that he believed him to be. Can we find out if Borsico was gay? That would actually be a helpful.

[A]

I thought it said that that's what.

[B]

That's what the research here is saying, but part of me wonders if that's how. I wonder if that was just a covert sort of suppressed feeling.

[A]

Yeah. So apparently it says here embraced his own bisexuality.

[B]

Yes. Having liaisons with women and also engaged with, you know, a Frenchman named tr.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then, you know, formed a family with Shy Pew Pew Pepu. Which kind of sounds French in a way. It does.

[A]

Oh, that's tough, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your whole life ends up being a lie.

[B]

Crazy, right? 20 years of this. So overcome with shame, disbelief, and a sense of betrayal, Borsico attempts to end his life, cutting his. His. I don't even know if we can say this without getting demonetized, but putting a necklace of razor blades around his head. Whoa.

[A]

That's a way to do it.

[B]

Yeah. While he's in jail, miraculously, he survives.

[A]

Eventually went to jail.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Eventually. Both men were convicted, each sentenced to six years in prison and put in the same jail cell.

[A]

And.

[B]

What you trying to say?

[A]

They didn't put him in the same jail.

[B]

No. That part was made up for the movie. Movie that we're gonna make. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it doesn't end right there. In a surprising turn of events, French president Francois Mitton. Pardon. Shy in 1987. Wow. Describing the case as this sort of silly episode that caused unnecessary tension between France and China. And Borsico received his pardon shortly thereafter, and the two men were free. In the years that followed, shy reached out to Borsica, confessing that he still loved. Loved him. But for Borsico, the illusion had long since shattered.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When informed of Shai's death in 2009, he responded with cold indifference. He did so many things against me that he had no pity for. I think it is stupid to play another game now and say, I am sad. The plate is clean and I am free.

[A]

What happened to Doo Doo?

[B]

That's a good question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can we look that up? Shy Dudu D u D U.

[A]

They probably just sent him back.

[B]

Hey, you're going to camp.

[A]

Yeah, Camp Gag.

[B]

Going to a we Your camp, unfortunately. Oh, yeah. What? Here, Click. What happened to Shy Doo Doo? A lot of people have had this same question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And in our film adaptation, we're going to have to. We're going to have to do this. Shy do still lived in France, but not much is known about.

[A]

Hey, good. Hopefully a good Life in France.

[B]

What a crazy story that would be.

[A]

That'd be stuff. Although it's like, yeah, but that's the thing is it's like on the one hand, I'm like, ah, no, that's fucked up. I was trying to positive spin it. I was like, you know, they weren't actually his parents. And he's like, yeah, but I was a child and Borsico raised him. Right.

[B]

I don't know. I actually don't know who ended up bringing up young Doo Doo. But I mean, just an insane story.

[A]

Great rap name, though.

[B]

What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I want to help you make sports more fun. That's right. If you like watching sports, there's a. To make it ten times more fun. And that is with Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the largest independently owned daily fantasy sports platform in North America. It's absolutely super fun and super easy to play. All you got to do is pick two to six player stats and hit more or less, and you can watch the winnings roll in. And to be honest with you, I've. I'm pretty good. I've been winning some money, but I've. I've lost more. I'll be honest. I'm bleeding money right now. I'm terrible at this game. I know nothing about sports. I'm awful. I. I always click more or less on the wrong things. So whatever I do do the exact opposite of. Apparently, people are winning money on this. There's some people that are making, you know, they turn ten dollars into a thousand dollars in just a few taps. Not me. Maybe you. Maybe you can figure it out. I don't know how to do it. So let's look at the picks from this week, shall we? All right, guys, there are games going on all the time, but tonight we got some big ones. That's right. Tonight is Thursday. Knicks are facing the Bulls. Jalen Brunson, Carl Anthony Towns, I'm told, are fresh off of their All Star Game appearance. So for that, I'm going to say more. How did Brunson do in the All Star Game? Eight whole minutes. That's pretty good. That means he's well rested. Well rested. Take on the Bulls. And then we got Celtics versus Philadelphia. I'm saying Jason Tatum, you got to crush more on that man. He is a. He is a bad man. So if you want to play along and make sports more fun, go to the App Store. Download the Prize Picks app on your mobile device. Use the promo code camp C A M P. And with your first $5 lineup, you will get $50 instantly deposited into your account that you are able to play with. That's right. I mean, here I am giving the good people some funds to play with. So you're welcome. Let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I need to tell you about how you are potentially entitled for some compensation. That's right. You may have been injured without even knowing it. And I think statistically, most Americans have been injured by this. We know that our food is poison. Many of these companies, these massive conglomera pumping our food with stabilizers and gums and other processed chemicals that are illegal in most other countries, but for some reason in America, they are fully legal and they are allegedly causing many health problems. That's a very small alleged. I actually just read a book about this ultra processed humans. It's fascinating that the processed chemicals that are going into our foods are terrible for you. I mean, if you were to take a baked cookie and a cookie that's filled with processed preservatives, even if they have the same exact nutritional profile, while the one with the preservatives and all the gums and stabilizers and ultra processing chemicals is going to be worse for you by a far, far margin. So if you have been exposed to many of these ultra processed foods, they've been known to be addictive, they've been known to CR to target children, and they can potentially cause chronic diseases such as type 2 diabetes, fatty liver disease, both of which were unheard of 40 years ago, but now affect the lives of thousands of children. It looks like the people over at Morgan and Morgan are fighting for the people once again. That's right. Morgan and Morgan, America's largest law firm. I mean, they have, you know, handled thousands and thousands of cases, recovered billions of dollars for their clients, and now they are targeting the ultra processed food giants of the world. Okay? So if you or your child has been diagnosed with one of these diseases that I mentioned before, you may have legal options. Options. They have helped thousands of families seek justice against these big corporations and they are ready to fight for you as well. So if you are interested, go to for the people.comgagnon. that's right. That is f o r the people.comgagnon. if you're interested in potentially hearing more about the way that these companies can be affecting you and your health and the health of your family and how you may be entitled for compensation because of that. Now I do have to disclose. This is a paid advertisement. Now let's get back to the show. All right, we got another one. This one's quite the story. This was a British civil servant by the name of John Vessel. And he had a secret life which made him one of the most notorious victims of KGB sex pionage. 1952. John Vassall, young, eager clerical officer, was assigned to the British embassy in Moscow. Moscow. Working as a part of a naval attache staff for basal life in Moscow was both an escape, but an exile. He found himself isolated by the rigid class structure and snobbery snobberies of the diplomatic world. Yet his loneliness was amplified by an even more significant secret. Do you have any.

[A]

Guess he liked butt stuff. Yeah.

[B]

He's a gay guy in 1950. 50. That's a tough. That's a tough hand.

[A]

Yeah. I. I wonder if being more open about sexuality has cut into the sexpionage business. Because the secret gay was like, that's your. That's your wheelhouse.

[B]

That's what you want. Not only can we just seduce him, but now he can't even tell anyone at all. So it seems like gay rights, real.

[A]

Back door into the country. You know what I mean?

[B]

But it's good for intelligence and keeping our. Our secrets close.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know what I mean? Name. So he's in Russia and he's gay. Not the best time now.

[A]

Still kind of tough.

[B]

Wrong place, wrong time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

1950S. Being gay is illegal in both Britain and the Soviet Union, which I'm pretty sure it's still illegal in Russia. I don't know. Look into.

[A]

Crazy. They had so many plays, right? Yeah. You guys have had theater forever. It's gay to. It's illegal to be gay in Britain.

[B]

Tchaikovsky. Right. Like, the greatest ballets of all time come from Russian, like, artists and writers.

[A]

Yeah. They watch a ton of women's basketball. I mean, like, there's a lot of.

[B]

Well, and then they even said in a press conference recently, like, you know, there's actually no gay people in all of Russia. I'm like, you guys invented the tracksuit. Yeah. Like, you guys invented, like, a sweatset. You know what I mean? Like, there's got to be a couple gays over there.

[A]

No gays.

[B]

No. You guys.

[A]

No, there's gays. There's gay clubs in Russia. Because I saw they did, like, a raid of, like, the gay clubs.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But they have gay clubs.

[B]

Former. Used to be.

[A]

They used to be gay. Straightened them up. Yeah. They just put in a bunch of flat screens and some boneless gay people.

[B]

They killed him, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. It's like. Well, okay. Yeah, that's a past tense thing if they rated it.

[A]

I can't imagine if you're gay in Russia. Good luck. Sorry.

[B]

Come over here.

[A]

Come on over.

[B]

We love it. Yeah. Be like an asylum seeker.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Be like, hey, I just. I'm a refugee.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm just trying to live my life.

[A]

Yeah. Just pull up with some poppers and a jbl.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They'd be like, you're trying to come to America, actually. Understand. Come on in.

[B]

And also, if you look like the.

[A]

Guy from Hell's Kitchen.

[B]

Yeah. You look like the bad guy from Rocky. They'd be like, yeah, you're. You're a lock. Yeah, you're going to do great here. So he's having a bad time. Okay. So one evening, October 1954, Vassal was invited to this opulent party by a Polish friend named Michalski. The night was filled with laughter, drinks, and a sense of camaraderie that Vassal craved for. He needed this. Little did he know that night would change his life forever. As the evening progressed, with Saul under the influence of alcohol and mdma.

[A]

Really?

[B]

No, not that part, but a lot of alcohol and listening to Charlie xcx. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's just a brat. Yeah. He's just trying to listen to club classics.

[A]

All right?

[B]

He gets seduced by several. Several.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

Handsome young men.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So he goes from being in pure isolation and having a bad time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To now getting hit on by numerous.

[A]

Just shirtless, which.

[B]

That's a crazy task. Also, I wonder if the Russians arrest gay guys for being gay. And they go, do you want to get your sentence overturned? And they're like, we're actually enjoying prison. They're like, no, no, no, no. You're gonna get you out of here. Unbeknownst to him, hidden cameras were clicking away the entire time, capturing every compromising moment. This wasn't just any party. It was. Was a KGB honey trap. Cue the lights. Yes.

[A]

Two guys pop out from under the table. The KB wipes their mouths off. Keep going.

[B]

This is where it gets bad. Okay. Days later, Vassal is confronted with the photographs.

[A]

He's like, oh, tough. That'd be the worst thing with a bad hangover to just get confronted with the photographs.

[B]

You got a Pedialyte? And they're like, oh, look what we saw.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Damn, I'm going to get murdered. KGB agents laid out his options. They sit him down at a table, right? They say, hey, look, either you can be a spy for the Soviet Union or you can go back to England where it's illegal and we're going to send these pictures there and you're going to get arrested and your entire life and family and everything you ever worked for gone in a flash. So choice is yours. So living in a time where literally his sexuality could destroy his career, reputation and freedom, he felt he had no choice but to cooperate. That's tough. So the demands sort of, you know, they start gradually. Okay. He's instructed to pass along.

[A]

I wonder if he was like, so as far as assignments go, can I do one of these like gay things.

[B]

That we just did? Yeah. And like can I just do someone?

[A]

Can I keep gang my way up the ladder and just, you know, at least catch a couple dongs on my.

[B]

Do like an mlm. Yeah, I'll get three gay guys. Multi level. Three gay guys will get other gay.

[A]

Yeah, multi level men Agency.

[B]

Let's do this. Exactly. So he's instructed to pass along some mundane information. Okay, so just, yeah, just give, give some info. Who cares, right? But as time went on, their quest become a little bit bolder. He soon found himself photographing and handing over classified documents concerning British naval defenses, radar systems and warship blueprints.

[A]

That's not very nice.

[B]

His secret life as a spy began to take on a twisted sense of normal. See, his espionage career took off when he returned to London.

[A]

Funny way to put it. His espionage career took off. Yeah, finally I'm getting all the jobs that I wanted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

License snitching on Churchill.

[B]

Yeah, this is great. Like, look at everything that's turned around for me. And so he goes back to London in 1956, and the KGB knew that they had a valuable asset. They were determined to exploit him to the fullest. He resumed work in the Admiralty, the heart of British naval intelligence, where he gained access to some of the country's most sensitive secrets. Blueprints for all the radar systems, anti submarine recruitment, naval strategies, etc. Fasal's cooperation with the kgb. KGB wasn't without its rewards. He was showered with gifts, cash and even luxury items that would soon be impossible for someone of his official salary to afford. Soon his lifestyle became the envy of his colleagues. He moved into a lavish apartment in dolphin square, owned 36 Seville Row suits, and took luxury holidays abroad. To anyone who ass. He attributed his newfound wealth to an inheritance from a distant relative. Someone died. I had like an uncle with a lot of money.

[A]

Yeah, I love that they're paying him. Well, that's like so Funny. They're like, we have everything over you. We could end you in a moment.

[B]

But you're crushing it. So here's some suits, and the fear.

[A]

Here is, oh, you want to keep him happy?

[B]

Is he going to be a double, double, double. So he goes to the British and goes, hey, guys, terrible news. I'm. I'm gay. I know. Yeah. Great. Okay. But I'm now working with the Russians.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm straight again.

[B]

So it turns out. Yeah, I was at Bacon. Yeah, I'm back. Because I was trying to. I was trying to go in. I was trying to pull a dick Miller. Yeah. I was gonna infiltrate, pretend to be gay, and then get in on the inside so he could flip and then feed them erroneous information and send them on fool's errands.

[A]

Makes sense.

[B]

So not only do they need to give him a little stick, but they got him throw him a couple carrots.

[A]

And he likes both. Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Specifically in that order. So he excels at his spy work, he's doing a great job. But living this double life takes its toll. Okay. He's meeting with KGB handlers in secret. And you know all these secret locations across London, like quiet suburban train stations. And the end of Vassal's espionage career came not from his mistakes, but from the defections of another man. This is a through line that we'll see throughout this episode already. But also, even in my conversation with Jackson Barsky, the thing that takes out most of these guys, even if you live a perfect record, if someone else gets captured, they say, hey, you're gonna go to life in prison. You're never gonna see your family or any of your families ever again. Or you just tell us, like, a couple other spies. It's basically an MLM for out spies.

[A]

Right. They should stop having group zoom meetings.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

They should split these things up. Why are we doing the conference call with all the spies?

[B]

Looks, I know that there's other spies. I don't know know any of them. Don't let us talk to each other.

[A]

Segment your information. What are these people? Idiots?

[B]

Yeah. So they didn't ask us. And unfortunately, he gets outed in a different way. 1961, senior KGB officer Anatoly Galotsin. Defective at you.

[A]

And he pulls the Kevin Spacey. He's like, all right, you got me. I'm gay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, that's not what we're talking about thing. Yeah.

[B]

He defects the United States, providing Western intelligence with informations about Soviet sports spies. His revelations include hints about British Naval Officers working for the kgb. Though the evidence was not definitive, suspicions around Vasali Visal began to grow. Kgb, fearing that Gallitzin might expose Visal, ordered him to cease all spying activities. But Vassal, confident that he remained undetected, resumed his work. Flew a little close to the sun. And it wasn't until another defector, Yuri Nosenka, added to the mounting evidence against him that the British authorities finally acted. September 12, 1962, Vassal was arrested and charged with gay and espionage. When confronted, Vassal knew that secret life had come crashing down. He confessed to everything, even directing detectives to the cameras and films hidden in his flat. The British press had a field day painting Vassal both as a traitor and a victim of circumstances. And there were sensationalized claims, claims and panic of a, quote, homosexual network within the government, prompting.

[A]

Dude, the government.

[B]

Yeah, Literally, they're like, the.

[A]

How deep is it in state?

[B]

Yeah, the deepest state ever.

[A]

The deep state, dude.

[B]

And they were like, yeah, our. Our government's controlled by gays, and there's a gay network around the world that's.

[A]

Controlling every panic, dude. Yeah.

[B]

Which of all the panics? That's a good one. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, just. Just like, being gays. Yeah.

[A]

It's like, why all of a sudden, all our government buildings are really well decorated. Yeah.

[B]

So that's what happens with this poor guy, you know?

[A]

I mean, it seems like he had a great. A lot of these people feel like they had great runs.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, most of them, like, you're.

[A]

Having a nice little time. Eventually you get. But, like, you know, this dude's living large, getting treated well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Getting away with being gay, getting nice suits.

[B]

What's the craziest thing is that there are spies that never get caught.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the craziest part to me, as we speak, that they.

[A]

There's no way that there aren't spies in our government, and we definitely have spies everywhere else.

[B]

And they were like, yeah, I banged a bunch of people I had sex with all the time. I got secrets from everybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And never got caught. Retired. Now I live in Sarasota.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Just living in Boca, golfing every day, literally.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

They definitely do live in Florida. Florida.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, just chilling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, I'm done. I'm done spying. But is there significant other? No. Like, are they living. It would be weird to have successfully lived a lie that you know you're gonna die in a lie.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, they'd never be like, all right, I'M done.

[B]

No, I think you do like a death. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, save. Spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk [e-mail] Spotify dead confession, which I'm going to do. Yeah, 1 million percent. I'm going to tell my kids like, I was never really a conflict comedian. I was working for like Mossad the whole time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also the kgb and also the CIA. And also usa. Yeah, I was working for them all those I was at Quadruple Spy.

[A]

Yeah. And I was also a rabbi that told people not to marry Catholic dudes.

[B]

Exactly. All right, this one is. This one is interesting.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This is about a guy named Mortal Mordecai Venunu. And he's a nuclear whistleblower that gets silenced by a honeypot. So, Mordecai Venunu, not your typical spy, 1980s. He's an ordinary nuclear technician working at Israel's top secret Dimona nuclear facility. He's meticulous, intelligent, and deeply committed to his job. However, as he spent more time in the bowels of the reactor, he began to notice things that troubled him. He discovered that the facility wasn't just just for generating electricity. It was manufacturing plutonium for nuclear weapons.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

He's a little freaked out by this. Okay. He's like, oh, my worst fears are confirmed. Israel possessed a covert arsenal capable of producing 10 nuclear bombs a year.

[A]

Uh oh, that's a lot.

[B]

In an era where the world stood on the brink of nuclear annihilation, Fnunu wrestled with his conscience. Could he continue working for a government hiding its nuclear ambitions from the world would staying silent make him complicit in potentially a catastrophic world ending event? His moral dilemma deepened, and by 1986, he made a fateful decision. He would reveal the truth to the world, no matter the cost. Equipped with a smuggled camera, Venunu.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

It's a tough one. He captures undeniable evidence of Israel's nuclear weapons program. After secret photographs of the facility's interior, he fled the country, went to Australia, where he sought sanctuary. Despite his best efforts, Fanunu struggled to find anyone willing to listen to his story. His breakthrough finally came when he contacted the Sunday Times in London, one of the few outlets that grasped the gravity of the revelations. It seems like most people would have been able to grasp that.

[A]

You'd think, right?

[B]

If he's like, hey, I have a secret nuclear problem.

[A]

Other people didn't want to mess with it, though. Yeah, I guess.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know, brother.

[B]

I barely feel comfortable even talking about the story.

[A]

Why?

[B]

It's just a whole thing, you know? Alex, come on.

[A]

It's out there.

[B]

It's. It's on Wikipedia.

[A]

This guy's alive. They'll come for him, not you.

[B]

Inshah. Okay, okay. So despite his best efforts, he has a hard time finding everyone. And then he finally finds his paper in London. Vunu, however, was unaware that his every move was being tracked by one of the most powerful intelligence agencies on the planet. Planet shared his story with journalists. Mossad had already begun a covert mission to silence them. Aware of his activities and determined to protect Israel's policy of nuclear ambiguity, Mossad launched an intricate plan to bring him back. They needed a strategy that would be swift, effective, and untraceable.

[A]

Jewish pussy.

[B]

Not exactly what I would say, but, oh, yes.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Enter Cindy. A beautiful, cunning Mossad agent. She was chosen for the job. Operating under the alias Cindy. She was the perfect bait for a classic honeypot operation. She's no ordinary spy. She's a master of seduction, deception, and manipulation. Trained in the art of luring targets into danger.

[A]

Spinable dreidel.

[B]

Yeah. Her assignment was clear. Seduce Venunu, gained his trust, and lure him into a trap that would bring him back to Israel.

[A]

All right. Right. All right, Cindy.

[B]

So, September, Menorah, 1986. Vanunu stayed in London. Okay. He's chilling out there. Cindy makes her move. She plays a role of an American tourist, a woman intrigued by Vanunu's mysterious life, charmed by his intellect. She listened to his stories, shared drinks with him, and gradually coaxed him into believing that she was genuinely interested. Vanunu, who had been isolated and very lonely from months, fell for Cindy's charm. He believed he had finally found someone who cared for him. As their relationship blossomed, Cindy suggested that they take a romantic trip to Rome together. Overwhelmed by his feelings for her and eager for a brief escape from the chaos, Fanunu agreed. Never suspecting that he was walking into an orchestrated trap, Vunu and Cindy landed a room. He believed this was the start of a new life, far away from the political turmoil he had stirred up, and now with a clear, free conscience. And instead, it was the beginning of his nightmare. They strolled through the city's ancient streets, laughing, enjoying a great time. But Massad monitored every move. That evening, Cindy suggested they return to her apartment. And as they entered, before Vanunu could even react, Mossad agents burst into the room, tackling him to the ground. They say, hey, I'm Chris Hansen. What? Yeah, you're on To Catch a Predator. He's like, what the. You're the predator. What? What?

[A]

What?

[B]

That's crazy. So they inject him with a sedative, rendering him unconscious. His last sight was the face of the woman that he thought loved him.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

Cindy slowly blacks out. He's drugged, incapacitated. Massage agents smuggle him out of his apartment and into a waiting vehicle. They had anticipated every potential obstacle. Their extraction plan was executed with military precision. Vunu was hidden in a shipping crate, whisked away to a waiting ship, and transported back to Israel. Back in Israel, he's charged with espionage and treason. His trial is conducted in secret, away from the eyes of the world. An Israeli government was determined to make an example of him. He sent us to 18 years in prison and spent a staggering 11 years in solitary confinement.

[A]

Oh, Lord.

[B]

And, man, that's brutal.

[A]

Seven or 11 in solitary.

[B]

Yep. And as a result, to this day, no one knows about Israel's potential nuclear.

[A]

Capabilities except for the listeners of this program.

[B]

Wait, did I say that?

[A]

Oh, fuck.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

[B]

Damn. My bad.

[A]

So he's still in jail, then, I imagine.

[B]

Oh, this is in the 80s, so he might be out.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't know what happened to him to this day.

[A]

God damn, Vanunu.

[B]

Yeah, you get it, right?

[A]

That's tough. I mean, it's kind of funny to be like, I've blown a whistle on a budding nuclear power that we know has, you know, famous intelligence capabilities and. But, damn, this chick's kind of eyeing me at the bar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? Give me a piece of that turns.

[B]

Out 2004, he's released from prison and. But his life is severely restricted. He's not allowed to travel or talk to journalists. And he's been arrested in prison several times for violations of those arbitrary restrictions on his right to freedom of expression and movement. So tough shake for Vanessa New. New. But that's what you get for trying to do trying to sell out your country. In a way, it's kind of tough.

[A]

I mean, like, yeah, there's a. There's an emotional conflict there because you're like, the good of humanity oftentimes requires you to let people know when you think something bad is happening. But also, if your country is developing a nuke, they have a right as a nation to come for that ass.

[B]

Right. So it's kind of, you know, it happens.

[A]

It's a tough one.

[B]

We got another one. All right. This one. One I think is, I think for the good guys, I think.

[A]

Okay, do you want me to decide at the end?

[B]

Yeah. Martha Dodd, an American socialite that infiltrated Hitler's inner circle. I kind of have a lean, so Martha. All right, let's get a picture of Martha. That'll actually be helpful. She arrives in Berlin in 1933 with her father and brother. Right. As Adolf Hitler rises to power as the ambassador's daughter, she's thrust into Nazi society, quickly gaining access, access to the most influential figures of the regime. Martha's beauty. Beauty and vivacious personality draws the attention of numerous high ranking officials. She soon found herself involved in romantic entanglements with several prominent Nazis, including Ernst Hans Fengalt, a close confidant of Hitler. And Ernst Udet, a celebrated Luftwaffe pilot. In Rudolph D. The first head nympho, she turned out to be a nympho. Yeah, girl.

[A]

Come on, Martha.

[B]

It was a different time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Among these men, Martha's most notorious favorite.

[A]

We know their trains run on time.

[B]

That's what happens, dude. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, brown hot showers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

We're doing it, dude. But the brown shirts.

[A]

Woo.

[B]

This shit was white when I bought it.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come on now.

[B]

So her most notorious affair was with this guy, Rudolph Dil, the head of the secret police.

[A]

The Gestapo, the red hosed reindeer.

[B]

Yeah. And he. He was hanging, dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's a dangerous man with a reputation for ruthlessness. But he takes Martha into his world, revealing the dark hidden mechanisms of the Nazi regime. I was intrigued and fascinated by this human monster. Martha later recalled. Girls love bad boys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like she looked at a Nazi and.

[A]

Was like, he's been killing people, but he fucks different.

[B]

And I can fix him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, he just needs, like, support.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like someone that can, like, have his back back. And he's actually a great guy. Yeah, sure, sure.

[A]

Work is stressful.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, sure. He wants to kill all the Jews, right? Okay. But he's a good, like, deep down, knew him the way I knew him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. Despite her fascination with Nazis, Martha began to feel uneasy about the regime. In 1934, during the night of the Long Knives, as some people may be familiar with, when Hitler's purge of his political rivals led to the murder of hundreds, including many of the men Martha had socialized, socialize with. This moment opened her eyes to the true nature of the Nazi regime. We all have a moment.

[A]

Yeah. You killing all my exes, dude.

[B]

Are we the baddies? Yeah, you know, like that kind of. That kind of little shift. And so she begins to feel her loyalties changing place. In the midst of her growing doubts, Martha encountered this guy, Boris Vinogradov, a charming, intelligent Soviet diplomat stationed in Berlin. Boris, an agent of the nkvd. Okay. No, they're not in Paris. Before you even try to do that one again. Dastardly dog. This is basically the predecessor of the kgb. Was immediately captivated by Martha. So now Martha's getting teed up by the Soviets.

[A]

People love this girl. So they used to make Martha's different.

[B]

Right, The Marthas we have today.

[A]

Not Absolutely not.

[B]

Don't hold up.

[A]

But back in the day, Martha was like a damn.

[B]

Unlike the Nazis that she had met, Boris was a sophisticated, worldly and full of passion for the ideals of communism and didn't want to kill. Really that many Jews.

[A]

Yeah, not even. Not nearly as many. He was down with sharing that pussy, bro. Communist ass box.

[B]

So he painted a picture of the Soviet Union as this land of equality, justice, and hope. Stark contrast to the oppressive fact fascist regime that Martha is now kind of inside. So Boris.

[A]

And vice versa.

[B]

Yeah. So Boris recognizes Martha's potential as a spy, begins to court her not just as a lover, but as a prospective asset for Soviet intelligence. As the relationship deepened, he persuaded Martha to share secrets from her father's work in the Nazis circles she frequented. She was swept in the romance of it all, believing she contributed to a greater cause, one that would counteract the horrors of the Nazi regime. In one of her letters to Bohr, she confessed this quote. You mean more to me in my life than anybody else. I'm willing to help you as you ask. You know I'm willing to come. Yeah, when called. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick. Cause I gotta tell you about an amazing service known as Blue. That's right. BlueChew is a service that basically delivers this chewable tablet to your door whenever you want. Once a week, once a month. I don't even know if they could do it that frequently, but they'll send it right to your door. You don't have to go to the doctor and have some awkward conversation with some guy in a lab coat. Some dude that's judging you, probably, if I had to guess, with bluechew. It's super discreet. The packaging is discreet. It's just a couple questions on their website. And they will send you chewable tablets that have basically the same active ingredients as like a bag or a. Or a Cialis, but at the fraction of the cost and in a chewable form. It's great. It truly is. I mean, one time I was in the woods and we were cold and everyone. It was raining and I. I pitched a tent with the help of Bluechew, and everyone gathered under it and we were safe. And it saved me and a lot of. A lot of lonely people. So if you're interested in bluechew, here's how you get it. You're going to go to bluechew.com and use the promo code. Get Gagnon. That's right. G, A, G, N, O, N. It's kind of funny. Gagnon has the promo code. I don't know why exactly, but it is funny. And you're going to receive your first month for free. That's right. Bluechew.com. use the promo code. Gagnon. Check it out. Bluechew. Let's get back to the show. In 1936, Martha was fully committed to the Soviet cause, passing on sensitive information from her father's diplomatic cables and the social gatherings she attended. Her actions did not go unnoticed by Soviet intelligence. Her reports quickly rose to the highest echelon, echelons of the Kremlin. Even Joseph Stalin himself took an interest in Martha's lovely letters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Recognizing her as a valuable asset with unparalleled access to the inner workings of both the American Embassy and the Nazi elite. So far, this seems like, you know, she's going against the Nazis.

[A]

Found her lane.

[B]

She found her lane.

[A]

The Soviets are still in Soviet, though, because, you know, which we were boys with that.

[B]

We're cool with them.

[A]

But, you know, as an American embassy dog, daughter, not ideal. You could have just been with the Ideal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But that's okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So despite the excitement of her double life, Martha struggled with the burden of secrecy. She continued her affair with Boris, all while juggling relationships with other men who had no idea of her clandestine activities.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She wrote romantic letters, attended these parties, played the role of this carefree diplomat daughter, yada, yada, yada, all the while collecting intelligence for the Russians. The information Martha provided, you know, proved to be invaluable to Soviet intelligence. Intelligence. But her life is about to take a dangerous turn. 1937, her dad decides to resign from his position as ambassador. Says, you know what, this whole Germany thing is really getting kind of crazy. This Hitler guy's kind of pushing me a little. So 1937, he decides, let's get out of here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let's go home, chill. Back in the U.S. martha wasted no time rekindling her passion for espionage. She moved to New York City, where she reconnected with kindling.

[A]

Her passion is crazy. She's.

[B]

I just like scrapbooking and spying. Yeah.

[A]

I'm sorry. Spying was on my vision board.

[B]

Yeah. I just love secrets.

[A]

It does sound fun.

[B]

It is sort of a womanly thing to do. Is it? It is it really? Like if you're a guy and you're.

[A]

A gab a lot, that's.

[B]

I just. But that's what makes a perfect spot, right? Cuz what girl, what do girls love.

[A]

You least expect it.

[B]

They love tea, they love gossip, they love chit chatting in details. You know what I mean? Yeah. So what job is better for a woman if you're a guy spy?

[A]

Yeah. They could ask a guy and he'd be like, oh, I don't know, dude. Yeah, I miss that. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They'd be like, oh my God, the paper that they wrote these documents on are unreal. Guys like, Jesus Christ. Just.

[B]

Yeah. Handwriting, by the way. Yeah. Faceless.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They'll be like, you remember the handwriting? Like, I remember everything. I know every single.

[A]

Yeah. All right, Martha.

[B]

So back in the us she gets back involved. She dusts off the old cleats and says, you know what? Put me back in coach. And the new mission is clear. Infiltrate American circles of influence and gather intelligence for the Soviets again. Damn it.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

I take back what I said. I thought she was working for us, but turns out, turns out she's a two timing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

During this time, she met this guy, Alfred Stern, a wealthy real estate investor and fellow sympathizer of communist ideals. The two get married in 1938, and together they form a New team for Soviet espionage. Stern, who became known as the Red Millionaire, funded various left wing causes and provided a cover from Arthur's activities. Under their seemingly glamorous lifestyle, the couple was actually passing information to the Soviets, even attempting to recruit others into the spy network. Network. But the couple's activities did not go unnoticed. The FBI began to monitor their movements, suspecting them of espionage. The political climate in the US grew more hostile towards communism. The walls began to close in. And in 1957, the House UN American Activities Committee subpoenaed the Sterns to testify about their communist connections. With the net tightening around them, Martha and Alfred made a desperate decision to flee. They went to Mexico. Mexico? You gotta tighten up your border. Mexico.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Come on. We're not sending our best.

[A]

No, we're not.

[B]

You know, some spies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Some of us spy. Yeah. Spy wars.

[A]

That's the most dangerous combination.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so they go to Mexico and then they go to Prague and that's where they get asylum. And then in Prague, they live in exile, cut off from their homeland and forever branded as traitors.

[A]

But vibing and smashing on the blue D. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Yeah. In general, just have a great time.

[A]

It's not a bad life.

[B]

You got to wonder, some of these spies that just go on to live like normal lives, you're like, that's pretty chill.

[A]

It's pretty chill. You got it done. But I just feel like they probably have that itch. Like, I think it's tough when you were a spy to just like go golfing every day, you know, like you just feel like you're missing the thing.

[B]

That I've talked to a handful of spies at this point and they all enjoy high stakes adrenaline, like sociopath activities.

[A]

How they were already that way. That's how they got into it. Like, there's like probably no amount of shit that would get me into being a spy. I would be too stressed, bro.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

I would be like, this is like really like fudgeing up kind of like my, like I haven't achieved a flow state in a while because I just feel like I like keep thinking about like all the lies and like what could happen.

[B]

And I like, I can't handle trying to like. Like if I like, if I went to like the airport. Airport, yeah. And I bought something and they said, do you have anything to declare? And I'm like, no, you're still getting around to that fix on your car. You got this on ebay. You'll find millions of parts guaranteed to fit doesn't matter if it's a major engine repair or your first time swapping your windshield wipers. Ebay has that part you need. Ready to click perfectly into place for changes big and small, loud or quiet. Find all the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. But you already know that ebay things people love Eligible items only Exclusion supply this episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today.

[A]

What do you.

[B]

No. Yeah.

[A]

Do you. Why don't you declare something?

[B]

Yeah, I'm gay. Yeah. What else you want me to declare? Oh, you want. Oh, fine, I'm gay. Is that what you wanted?

[A]

Dude, I remember when I was like, I don't know, I was like 15, I was flying to visit my grandparents and I was like, wanted to bring weed. And so I like, put it in, like the battery casing of a camera. Brilliant idea.

[B]

That's smart.

[A]

But I just like, smuggle it. But the entire flight I was like, oh, my God. And I'm like, waiting for like the bags to come off and I'm like, oh, man. I didn't realize people don't really give a that you fly with weed. But at the time I was very worried.

[B]

I flew one time.

[A]

Imagine if I was actually a spy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'd be like, dude, I fucked Kim Jong Un. These people are gonna freak the out when they find out he's been making me at night, bro.

[B]

I one time got weed gummies when I was in la. La.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bought gummy gummies from a gas station. Dump those out, put the weed gummies in there and then went on the plane the whole time. So stressed out. Yeah, terrified. Put it in my checked luggage.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, oh, the dogs are going to sniff it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I land, I open up my suitcase, they're not in there. And I realized I left them at my friend's place. But the whole time I was like.

[A]

Shouldn'T have had the gummies in your mouth. I'm a smuggler.

[B]

I'm smuggler. Smuggler.

[A]

Oh, the worst smuggle ever.

[B]

Did you actually hook up with Kim Jong over? Is that just a bit?

[A]

I'm not at liberty to say.

[B]

Well, you wouldn't be the first one. Okay. Let's go to North Korea. All right.

[A]

I love North Korea.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I'm fascinated by North Korea. I don't. I wouldn't say I love North Korea, but I'm fascinated by it.

[B]

You love North Korea?

[A]

Is that a thing?

[B]

Have you ever seen this? No, this is like a K pop thing. It's actually sick. I love it.

[A]

Wouldn't that be South Korea? North Korea and South Korea don't get along traditionally. Traditionally.

[B]

Really? That's a part of their tradition.

[A]

That's what I heard. Yeah, it is. Actually.

[B]

I'm a traditional Korean, so I hate those guys.

[A]

There's a lot of hate in the Korean backlog.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I believe it's called the Han and it's. I believe it is a specific. I could be wrong about this, but I believe it's a specific phrase that Koreans use to explain, like generational anger that's based on traumas that have occurred to the peoples.

[B]

So they don't love each other. Other.

[A]

Not those two.

[B]

This is a. This is a Korean heart.

[A]

Oh, that's nice.

[B]

Isn't it kind of cute?

[A]

It is very cute. And so it's like, oh, that's why that emoji exists.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, we'll start using that.

[B]

So I believe it comes from. Yeah, the Korean heart. You can get a picture of it. I got it from Squid game.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He's like, hey, Park. That's Park G. That's cute. I love you. I like that. So I've been doing it a lot. It is. It is very cute actually.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But this is a story about Korean love. 2001. Won Jung Hwa, 27 year old woman with a seemingly tragic past, crossed into South Korea under the guise of a desperate defector. Fleeing the horrors of North Korea. Her soft spoken manner and heartbreaking story, she quickly won the sympathy of South Korean authorities. She ended up going on Joe Rogan's podcast. Okay. And then eventually on flopping Everywhere. And she was a beautiful woman. No, this is not yon me. Okay. Yi was never a spy. She would never. Okay, we think she wasn't.

[A]

We'd think.

[B]

We think. I mean, I don't. Who's. After all this? I don't know who's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, you could be a spy. It's possible. Ju painted a picture of a woman trapped by circumstances, longing for a new life. She even told tales of hardship that she had endured, including including prison time for theft and fears of execution in the North. Okay. All right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What the Hell, the dude, we need not Yoni. We need Wong Jong Hua.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good place to park.

[B]

Okay. All right, let's just. This is getting off the rails. South Korean authorities accepted her story, unaware that they were welcoming a Trojan horse. A wolf in sheep's clothing thing, which I never liked because sheeps don't wear clothes. A wolf. And she's clothing would just be a wolf.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You mean a wolf and sheep's fur.

[A]

Yeah. Is it called fur? A wolf and sheep's wool.

[B]

Which I. Obviously doesn't sound as good, but it's.

[A]

One of those things where it's like one Jung Hua.

[B]

That's one Zhang Hua.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

And yeah, she's a wolf. In sheep's. Yes. And sheep's wool.

[A]

In sheep's wool.

[B]

She goes down into South Korea. Okay. And she's telling him this whole story. What they didn't know was that Juan had been recruited by North Korea's National Security Agency before her defection. Trained in the arts of seduction, espionage and assassination, her mission, infiltrate South Korea's military, gather intelligence, and if necessary, eliminate high profile targets. Whoops. As part of her cover, Juan became a public speaker, lecturing to South Korean military units about the evils of the North Korean regime. Her passionate ex communist rhetoric and beauty made her an instant favorite amongst South Korean soldiers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. This is a familiar story.

[A]

I feel like she's been getting turned out.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know what's going on. Using her charm and sexual lore, she began targeting South Korean military officers.

[A]

Striking up relationship. Familiar, huh? Yeah, the whole public speaker angle.

[B]

Don't look into that. Okay. Yeah. I mean, who's going to come back from North Korea? Be like, honestly, I fled.

[A]

But it was pretty chill, pretty sick.

[B]

Yeah. I mean like that just seems.

[A]

What's amazing is to give all these speeches and then in the back of your mind be like, just kidding, it's fudgeing.

[B]

Awesome. It's crazy to be North Korea and be like, hey, let's get this girl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Send her to South Korea where she.

[A]

Sees everything is, you know, trash us. Yeah.

[B]

And they know like, oh yeah, obviously you're going to trash crash those.

[A]

But like she's like, dear leader though. I'm with it.

[B]

It's crazy that like she. This is recently, this is in 2000.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So as she basically moves herself around, she's having a great time, everyone's happy, she's cool. She's using her charm and her sexual allure to start targeting. I'll Just very obvious.

[A]

Just to answer. I think that the only way to keep someone. Obviously you need someone who's indoctrinated, which a lot of people in North Korea are. But I also think they're probably promising her like a palace or some where it's like you can live like some real. If you come back.

[B]

I think it's probably all of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I think mostly. I think mostly they say, by the way, you remember your mom, she's a kid.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

And you remember your dad and your whole family. Well, right now, kill them. We have them inside a giant blender. That's a huge blender and it's got a giant squid.

[A]

Games. Dude. Walking around.

[B]

Exactly. And they're going to be in that blender and we're going to feed them.

[A]

And if you leave, we're going to push the button. Yeah. And Kim Jong Un will drink and we're going to. We're going to put some exact protein.

[B]

And we're going to film it. We're going to put on YouTube. Yeah. Called Will it Blend? Okay. It's going to be part of a big.

[A]

It'll be called Blending in in North Korea.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So if that's what you want to do, that's up to you. But just know that they're going to forget about that.

[A]

Yeah, that's a bit of a. I think that probably family thing is a generally strong anvil to hold over someone's head as well.

[B]

But. But on top of that, be like, you can also come back and have a palace and everyone's happy. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of tip the scales a little.

[A]

A little this and that.

[B]

Precisely. So. All right, great. We got a picture of Kim Jong.

[A]

Kim Jong in.

[B]

Let's take a look.

[A]

Good looking guy.

[B]

That's what he looks like.

[A]

Good looking dude. Yeah.

[B]

I mean that guy looks like he's been drinking. A couple families anyway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Using her charm and sexual allure, she starts to target military officers, striking up relationships, seducing them, and eventually coercing them into releasing classified information.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She collected sensitive data about South Korean military installations, weapons systems and personnel, all the while passing yourself off as this loyal defector who's just grateful to be here. As she moved through military circles, Juan built a web of informants exploiting her relationships to gather intelligence for her North Korean handlers. To further her mission, she traveled back to China over a five year period where she would meet with her North Korean contacts to deliver the information that she had gathered. In exchange, she received new orders, funds, and Most chance appealingly poison tipped needles meant for assassination missions against South Korean targets. One of her most critical missions was to locate and eliminate Huang Jang Yop, the highest ranking North Korean defector and former chief architect of North Korea's juch ideology or juke ideology. I don't know which one it is. Basically this is North Korea's state ideology that emphasizes self reliance, political independence and economic self sufficiency, efficiency. This is the guy that built all that shit in North Korea and then he defected. It it advocates for the country to control its destiny without foreign influence and maintain a strong military, yada yada.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They don't like that guy. They don't like that he left. So what? How would you pronounce that?

[A]

Juke seems.

[B]

Juke seems Koreanish.

[A]

Seems about right, right? Just trying to juice it up a little bit. Up a little bit.

[B]

Just trying to catch a vibe, see what the it factor is. Down.

[A]

Yeah, there you go. It's juke juche.

[B]

We are looking at how to pronounce this word invented by the North Korean regime to designate an ideology of self, self sufficient and self reliance is essential about pronouncing it simply.

[A]

He. He did the full recipe lady thing where it's like you just want to know how to make hot chocolate. And they're like, chocolate is a special thing that has been passed down from generations. I often think about a cool day and my late grandmother. It's like how the do I make hot chocolate?

[B]

Say the word. More importantly, I'm not going to take pronunciation advice from a. Guys, it sounds like this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You would like to know how to pronounce it like you know, you just said it French. Yeah. If you'd like to know how to pronounce it with a French accent. Have you ever wondered how to pronounce a word wrong? I got you.

[A]

I got you.

[B]

So this guy Huang, right? The guy that defected, he's a prime target in Pyongyang. They want him. The North Korean agents had made multiple attempts to kill him since his defection in 1997, and they finally found their perfect tool. Juan was tasked with tracking down Hwang, who lived under constant police protection in South Korea. Despite her efforts, she never succeeded in making contact with him. As Juan continued her espionage activity activities, cracks began to appear in her carefully constructed facade. In 2006, after delivering 33 anti North Korean lectures, military officials began to notice subtle shifts in her rhetoric, picking up hints of positive Pyongyang sentiments. Questions rose about her true intentions and suspicions deepened as intelligence officers began to dig into her past. The point came in 2008, when South Korean authorities discovered that Won had not only been seducing military officers, but also had been a massive passing a collection of business cards and photographs belonging to 23 high ranking military personnel. This revelation led to her arrest. Under intense questioning, she confessed to her double life as a North Korean spy. Wow.

[A]

You dumb. You just it up.

[B]

You're giving speeches and you're like, north Korea's bad. They suck. They're awful. And someone's like, yeah, and they're ugly.

[A]

She's like, they're like actually pretty hot. Like, we all know Kim Jong Un's like the hottest guy.

[B]

I wish I could.

[A]

I wish I could sit on that big white face.

[B]

Yeah. And everyone's like, wait, that's taking that.

[A]

Extra wide Schwinn for a ride.

[B]

They're like, what, you think he's hanging new? All right.

[A]

No, I think he's got a tiny little dick.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Which is I shouldn't say, because I really would like to go to Pyongyang, but I don't think I'm going to be allowed to go.

[B]

Can we google Kim Jong Un naked?

[A]

Take a little beak there. Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's an artist rendering. Wondering. And that has a. Well, okay.

[B]

That's pretty small.

[A]

Yeah. There he is in the Kim Kardashian.

[B]

I like the Kim K1.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Is that real?

[A]

I was about to say.

[B]

Dude, this guy's chill as hell.

[A]

That is the greatest YouTube thumbnail of all time.

[B]

I mean, that one is just fire, dude. Also go to the one on the left. His half brother from the New York Times. What? Whoa.

[A]

Yeah, that's real.

[B]

Assassinated. Malaysia.

[A]

They assassinated him.

[B]

Damn. I was gonna say get him on the pod.

[A]

Kim Jong dose. They got him though.

[B]

No, it's. It's his half brother.

[A]

What about.

[B]

That's Kim Jong Un half.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Kim Jong 0.5.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Click on the one right to the right of his half brother. Oh, it just went away. Yeah, right there. Click on that.

[A]

My.

[B]

You know what these guys need?

[A]

What?

[B]

Hands Free Fleshlight. Yeah.

[A]

Our greatest invention from the last episode, the Hands Free Fleshlight.

[B]

Which is now a real thing.

[A]

It is. We texted each other about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Someone must have heard the pod.

[B]

My friend J.J. lieberman, a dear friend of mine and a very funny comedian, purchased one and has been telling me about it, actually.

[A]

Yeah, he just dropped his full name.

[B]

He talks about it at length on stage.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I don't think he'll ever uses.

[A]

The Hands Free flashlight.

[B]

I'm sure you're familiar with it. A funny Instagram series. Whereas I'm not a pervert. But it's.

[A]

I'm not familiar.

[B]

I was at the gym and I saw a girl working out. I saw sweat right in her crotch and I was so turned on. And you're like, well, it's a little perverted.

[A]

That's a little.

[B]

But they go viral, people.

[A]

Yeah, well, horny Internet is a real thing to tap into.

[B]

Oh, does the Goon Squad?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, the Goon Squad. The Gooners.

[B]

Yeah, the big time Gooners. Which now there's a war on. The Gooners.

[A]

Is there?

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

John Nutters.

[B]

They're banning porn all over the world. The. No Fabers taken over.

[A]

Yeah. There was a Gooner who was gooning at like at a drive through.

[B]

A woman caught him and then he killed himself. Yes. And then there was the drive thru to celebrate a candlelight vigil where his acolytes went and supported the cause. The Goon Squad.

[A]

That's such a as. As. As so many things are in our modern society. That's such an almost beautiful let, yet tongue in cheek and complicated tale.

[B]

Yeah, truly. And as I might seem like a Gooner, the record.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm actually a secret.

[A]

You're a secret nofap.

[B]

I'm a covert noap.

[A]

You're definitely a nofap. Yeah, big time. I'm just. I'm just an old school guy. It's just crank when necessary, but it's not a lifestyle.

[B]

No, it's reasonable. I think it's admirable and I think it's respectable. You're not a full blown Gooner. You're just a run of the mill.

[A]

Empty the chamber every once in a while. So I'm not walking around with a loaded gun.

[B]

Yeah, no, I respect it. I on the other hand, believe in seamer retention and even a time semen recycling.

[A]

Expand on semen recycling.

[B]

We're gonna go to the next one actually.

[A]

It feels compostable.

[B]

Semen recycling is where if you do release your seed, you actually insert it back in your body such that it never goes out of your body.

[A]

Is that a double spit?

[B]

Doesn't matter how you do it. Okay.

[A]

Why is that a cum spit swallow.

[B]

No, I do an enema. Okay. I do, I do an enema. Anyway, so what happens to. Yes, she goes to court and she pleads for leniency. She just wants to be reunited with her seven year old daughter who she left behind in China. It's my sin to have been born in the north is what she said to the court. She faced the possibility of a life sentence or even the death penalty. But her confession and cooperation earned her a lighter sentence of just five years in prison. Court took into account five seems light, right? You do five years and then you get to live in America.

[A]

You're like, all right.

[B]

But then I get. I bet her family went, yep, blend. Will it blend. Don't do that. It.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

The court took into account her claims of being brainwashed by North Korea, her struggle to reconcile her loyalty to the regime and doubts of its oppressive nature. Her stepfather, Kim Dong Son, was also. Don't smile. Was also prosecuted on charges of espionage. The news of Won Jong Hall's trial.

[A]

It's all right.

[B]

North Korea denied any connection to her and called her human scum, accusing South Korea of fabricating the charges to defame the North.

[A]

That's how you totally tell someone's hurt by a past relationship. She's human scum.

[B]

Dude.

[A]

I don't even know why you guys even, like, waste that space in your jail with that chick. You think we. That chick's not even hot. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. We would never.

[A]

That's embarrassing, dude.

[B]

Couldn't be us. Anyway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We got one more. One final. All right. This one's a short one. It's pretty interesting.

[A]

I. I will before we do this, because I know we have one final. But I was, I was just bringing it up. Have you heard about. I want to say it was Eric SWALW, a current U.S. congressman who they found with a Chinese lady spy.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't know about this.

[A]

I. I could be completely besmirching a man who wasn't, but I think. Yeah.

[B]

All right, well, let's. Yeah.

[A]

Apparently he met like a Chinese spy in San Francisco. And so House.

[B]

House Ethics committee has concluded a two year investigation investigation over his alleged ties to a Chinese spy. So let's scroll down briefly here and let's take a quick look because this is going to be. I mean, this is wild. So they just said that in 2020, Fang, a suspected Chinese intelligence operative, have targeted Swalwell and other politicians to gain national prominence who had potential to gain national promise. Fang had taken part of a fundraising activity for his re election campaign. Swalwell immediately cut ties in 2015 after receiving briefings from federal investors investigators. He was accused of. He was not accused of wrongdoing. Wow.

[A]

So they caught him and they told him and he was like, oh, you right, yo. But I think that did get inside of her soup dumpling.

[B]

Let's. Let's scroll down a little bit more. The ethics committee investigation began 2021. McCarthy says Fangs justification, removing him from the House committee. When Republicans regained control of the chamber nearly 10 years ago, I. I assisted the FBI in their counterintelligence investigation of a volunteer volunteer. It's time to move on. Wow. For years, MAGA GOP falsely smeared me to silence me. He tweeted, lauding the community's decision to close the investigation without finding wrongdoing. Wow.

[A]

It doesn't say in that, so I'm gonna google did Swalwell bang the spy says he did not share sensitive information. Okay, well, maybe, maybe not.

[B]

It does seem like it. It circled particularly in sort of like conservative circles, that he had a full blown affair. That's the rumor.

[A]

And they're just like going with it, running with it. But.

[B]

But maybe there's a little something. Who knows a little something.

[A]

But that's how easy it is. Like if you get. If you get 10 different sources to just say that, then it's like. Well, I don't mean, you know, exos wouldn't report it, but like, I heard from.

[B]

Well, according to Shapiro Random Reddit account, they say that Swalwell and Fang were extremely close and that she ran his campaign, picked his staff, and was as close to him as. As anyone. Damn. She was easy on the eyes. And her entire purpose for being there was to get close to Swalwell and potentially seduce him. There are so many knowns that point to sex happening, but it's never been confirmed. And according to the committee, they say that perhaps. Actually, no. They say that no wrongdoing has happened.

[A]

They don't necessarily say that no doing happened.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Wrong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. It could be a smear. We don't have proof at this time.

[B]

If it's wrong to fall in love with a hot Chinese girl.

[A]

Yeah. Then I mean, build bigger jails. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, Time me up. All right. Put me in a finger trap.

[A]

She walking around with that Chinese finger.

[B]

Trap between her legs.

[A]

Can never pull my hands out.

[B]

I'm saying, dude, you and your boy hit it front and back, you know.

[A]

I mean, we get all sorts of dudes up inside that dragon in dragging my com around.

[B]

All right, this is. This is rude.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

This. We're besmirching the good name of a regular Fang. Yes.

[A]

We get a pick.

[B]

Yeah, we should.

[A]

Can we get a pick just to see? Yeah, just to see. It's Shang Dooo the whole time. Well, okay. I don't know how easy on the ice I wouldn't say. I wouldn't say my eyes are working a bit, but that's okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Yeah. Refuses to say if he had sex with China. Honey trap Spy I.

[B]

A Chinese honey trap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One of the. One of their trickiest traps.

[A]

How they get it on the walnut shrimp.

[B]

I mean, but yeah, I mean, you can see it. Also, he's not. He's not exactly like.

[A]

I mean, they're working late hours at the office. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[B]

You get tired, you know, it's difficult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, there's. Yeah, yeah. Easy on the eyes.

[A]

Yeah. Come on, you know. Hey, look, no, no disrespect to, you know, the area that I. That I hail from, but he's in San Francisco. You know what I mean? You know, you, you, you. We're all victims of our environment.

[B]

That woman is a San Francisco 11. All right, let the record was what we're saying. Anyway, let's talk about one final one. This is Christine Keeler, who got wrapped up in this little thing called the Profomo affair. You've heard of MI6?

[A]

I have.

[B]

You ever heard of MI5?

[A]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Eric Swalwell had my six that he was talking about. Talking about my six. Let her go. Go. She's mine. Yes. MI6. What's MI5?

[B]

MI5 deals with domestic affairs. MI6 deals with foreign affairs. I see. Interesting, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No. Mi. John Profomo was the Secretary of State and a respected, influential figure in British politics. You got to think the Secretary of State. He marries this glamorous actress, Valerie Hobson. Let's get a picture just to see how glamorous of an actress she was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not in an objective way.

[A]

This is just us judging spies. Which Men and women. Men and women and women. Men and women.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Right, right. Valerie.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, she's a piece. Yeah. Could get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

1961.

[A]

Am I 10?

[B]

At a lavish party, Profomo's life took a turn that would lead him into the heart of a scandal that would change British politics forever. All right, at this party, there are guests and including Christine keeler, a stunning 19 year old model who exuded a mysterious and irresistible allure. It was a brief but intense affair. Keeler and Profoma began a passionate relationship that summer, meeting secretly for a romantic tryst. But what Profomo didn't realize was that he wasn't the only powerful man in Keeler's life. Ooh. She was also involved with Yevgeny Ivanov. Guess where he's from.

[A]

Another one, North Korea.

[B]

A naval attache from north freaking Korea whose name is Yevgeny.

[A]

Yeah. The Russians are spying ass hoes.

[B]

That's what. They just look around and they go, oh, we have the hottest people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, let's just bang everyone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's really not fair. Right.

[A]

Like, America never been down the whole Russian path sexually. I feel like they're intimidating. Intimidating?

[B]

Just Google, like, any. What?

[A]

No, I'm not saying I haven't seen them. I just. I've never been involved with a Russian lady, which is great because I'm, you know, not a spy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But everyone's like, they're so hot. And I'm like. I feel like they would eat me for lunch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I guess is part of the appeal.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. That's, like, the danger.

[A]

I want to be dominated.

[B]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, like, Russian women are just objectively, I think, just.

[A]

Yeah, but they feel like they're gonna, like, throw a bottle at the wall after.

[B]

No, they're crazy. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Some. Some.

[A]

Not to generalize these fine spying.

[B]

But some.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, these girls, they seem sweet.

[A]

Yeah, they do.

[B]

And cute, you know, but they'll.

[A]

They'll get you.

[B]

They. The only stereotype that I've heard about.

[A]

Comments thread has got to be insane for this. I don't even.

[B]

They're too old.

[A]

Be packing my bags.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, this is also a crazy place because, like, I mean, what, like a bajillion Russian dudes died in World War II and just left all of these women just horny and alone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just sitting around, just waiting.

[A]

Just leaving them there.

[B]

So they have all these women, the hottest in the world, tons of them, and they go, let's send them around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like you're not telling me.

[A]

Colombia, it's a natural resource.

[B]

Colombia could be the greatest intelligence operation of all time.

[A]

Who says they're not? They might be.

[B]

I need to make a phone call. Yeah. He was a Soviet intelligence officer. Okay. And he's also deeply connected to the world of espionage.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Britain is in the midst of the Cold War, as is, you know, most of the world post World War II. And any possibility of state secrets being passed between senior British government and Soviet spies is obviously not a good thing. Rumors of the affair spread like wildfire, drawing the attention of MI5, a British intelligence service. So. So what do they do? They investigate. 1963, John Profomo stood before the House of Commons to address the swirling allegations. He vehemently denied any wrongdoing. He says, and I quote, there was no impropriety whatsoever in my relationship with Ms. Keeler. His words seemed to satisfy parliament and the press. But behind the scenes, investigators were closing in. Weeks later, the truth came out. Profomo had lied and had indeed engaged in an affair with Christine Keeler. Profoma was forced to resign. 1963. Christine Keeler becomes a household name. Her role in the scandal was splashed across headlines. Keeler was vilified as the Good Time Girl. Files released decades later uncovered this. This wasn't the first time Profoma had been involved with a woman who was a spy.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

In the 1930s, this horn dog was entangled with Gisela Klein, a German model and committed Nazi who worked with the German military intelligence, who discovered that Profomo had maintained contact with Klein even after she became a known agent, raising further questions about his judgment.

[A]

Good sex, dude. Where you're like, I know she's an agent, but come on, what am I going to. I'm not going to not talk to her. What's going on?

[B]

So this just raised more questions, like, is this guy just a traitor? Like the fact that he got seduced by two different honey traps. Like, how is this possible?

[A]

I think he's just a dog.

[B]

He might just be a dirty, dastardly dog.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah, basically, people are like, maybe this wasn't as coincidental and accidental as.

[A]

People might have thought, but maybe it was.

[B]

Yeah, it could have been.

[A]

I'm. I'm interested by this because it's like, you know, we have. We've had a lot of people today that had to find out that they were living a lie. But this guy's lie wasn't. I fell in love with someone. It was like, dude, I thought I had game. For years, I thought I was. Thought I was one of the dudes. Dude. And I just keep spies.

[B]

Yeah, that's tough. Imagine telling your boys. Like, you have to call your boys.

[A]

And be like, she was a spy. And then it happens again.

[B]

Imagine you calling me, go, bro, you're not going to.

[A]

Yeah, remember that chick that I. That I brought to the bar on Saturday?

[B]

Yeah. No, the Russian one. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Also a spy. A real friend would just be like, ah, it's probably gonna happen again. Let's go.

[B]

Get up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine. You are who you are.

[B]

I mean, it's crazy.

[A]

We accept the faults in our friends, even if they keep spies.

[B]

Yeah. Even if they give away all of our secrets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

What is a friend for? You can't leave a man when he's down like that.

[B]

Exactly. And then they start exposing.

[A]

You just have to start him and spying on him.

[B]

They say all the stuff that. That the spy. Hand. Hand it over.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're like, yeah. And apparently, like, Steve's got weird nipples. Like, why would you tell. Yeah, like, why is that even a part of the espionage? You didn't need to tell them about me, but. Yeah. This is how it happens, dude. This is how the trade secrets get around the world.

[A]

I think this is a cautionary tale to everyone listening. If she's out of your league and you have access to top secret government documents, you're not. You're just not him. You're not built like that. Don't give her the documents. Or if you do, worth a shot, try Double Spy. Try a Dick Mueller and see what you can do.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. And if you're a guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. Or if you're a girl, to be honest, and you're interested in helping out.

[A]

Our country and getting plowed or plowing.

[B]

Either way, sign up.

[A]

Just go to the CIA office and be like, I know you guys do the fucking shit. Let me go do some fucking.

[B]

Because right now I'm banging for free. Free.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I would love to bang to help our great nation.

[A]

100.

[B]

Because I bleed red, white and blue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a real medical issue.

[A]

It's a problem.

[B]

My blood is too oxygen. Yeah. But I need help anyway. If you're. If your wife comes to you and says, hey, I've been given a task to protect the nation, you go, that's amazing, honey. And she says, I have to be a honey trap. I would say, would you let our nation go down?

[A]

I would. I would. Who's our nation and why are they going down? The name of the. I think I would. I think I'd go into the Agency and I'd be. I'd say, fine, we'll do the swingers. Cause if you're fucking, I'm fucking. All right. If you're fucking, I'm fucking. We're both fucking for this great nation.

[B]

All right.

[A]

But you don't get to do it alone.

[B]

But I feel like you would bungle it, dude.

[A]

I would not bungle it.

[B]

You would. You would absolutely bottle the cracking these fucking. No, not the cracking these cheeses. You do good. Thanks. Or you'd be holding the girl. You'd be like, call me spy.

[A]

Why am I in a dark room with the Chinese man lady named Sheng Pei Poo? And which side of this am I on?

[B]

This has gone haywire. My wife's getting dogged out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why. Why do we have to go spy on Nigeria?

[A]

Why am I talking? Why am I talk.

[B]

I'm getting in the ass now.

[A]

I'm getting in the Shang dudu.

[B]

They tell you like, hey, your first spy swinging mission, you got to go to Nigeria.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're like, why do we need their secrets? And like.

[A]

You mean Algeria?

[B]

No, no, no, no. Nigeria. Nigeria.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then. And then you find your target, and he's big and he's tall and he's scary.

[A]

Oh, I can't be just a nice Nigerian lady.

[B]

No, no, no. You get to be with a beautiful Nigerian lady.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

But then your wife.

[A]

Yeah. Yep, yep, yep.

[B]

Well, that's has to learn about a bumbo's big old secret.

[A]

Well, uh, you know, I would just. I'd have a. I'd have to. I'd have to make my way through the village. I'd have to have a few assignments with many of the lovely ladies out there.

[B]

Hey, I love it for our nation.

[A]

I. Look, if I'm committing to swinging and being a spy for our nation, I'll. We'll. We'll fuck anywhere.

[B]

We're gonna get at the big secrets.

[A]

Yeah. The biggest secrets. The biggest, blackest, dorkiest secrets in all of Paris.

[B]

Thank you guys for tuning in. We'll next time. Thank you, Joey. Have a great day. If you've made it to the end of this episode, that's because you rock with us. And for that, we rock with you. You are sophisticated. You enjoy honest, true communication. A highbrowed type of person that understands this history is not just dates and names. It is a tapestry of human triumph and tragedy. From the day Nostradamus made his first prophecy to the morning Paul Revere took his midnight ride from ancient oracles to monster modern revolutionaries. That is why I need you. If you have not already, please sign up for Today in History. Our free newsletter. Today in History brings you the stories that matter, the moments that changed everything, and the secrets hidden in time. Join thousands of history enthusiasts who get their daily journey through time. Don't let another day of history pass you by. Take the conversation to your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description. Today in History because history's stories shape tomorrow's world. Thank you for watching the episode. We'll see you next time.