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- [00:00]
Mark Gagnon
Hollow Earth. Now this is just a good old fashioned conspiracy theory. And trust me, this one has got everything. Here's what it is. Some people believe that the Earth is not solid, but actually completely hollow. And not just hollow, but home to a robust civilization of superhumans or aliens or even Satan himself. And today we're going to explain where this theory comes from. Why do people believe this? Everyone from sci fi writers to even the Nazis had an unusual fascination with Antarctica and the center of the Earth. And finally, I'll tell you what I think about this bizarre and strange theory. So if you are a fan of the weird, quirky and unusual explained in a, you know, fun way, you're in the right spot. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp.
- [00:53]
Sponsor Voice
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- [01:22]
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- [01:57]
Mark Gagnon
What's up people and welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon. I'm joined by my good friend and long time friend of the show, my good friend Miles McCreary. How are you buddy?
- [02:08]
Miles McCreary
I'm back everybody.
- [02:09]
Mark Gagnon
He is back this time off camera and I think playing chess on his computer. So you have no concern of, of any, of any quips or any reincarnation stories that you don't like. Anyway, today we have a fascinating, fascinating story, a fascinating topic. Again, if you're not familiar with this show, this is my tent where I jump into the most interesting, fascinating, controversial things, stories and ideas of all time through all history right here in one place. And today is no different. Today we're talking about Hollow Earth. Ugh. If you don't know anything about me, know this I was homeschooled by a conspiracy theorist until the fifth grade, and then I went to a very small, conservative Presbyterian school, which, as a Catholic, was controversial, but that was my upbringing. I was raised by a conspiracy theorist. I was at home arguing and debating with her about Freemasons and predictive programming in Lady Gaga music videos as a child. So of course that is going to, you know, change my perspective and taint the way I look at the world. And so I have a fondness for conspiracy theories. I find them fascinating. I like to dive in and look at them and analyze them because I do find that there's oftentimes little threads of truth. Sometimes it's just, you know, an interesting story, or sometimes intentionality put on someone that you can't actually prove, but, you know, it kind of makes sense, or it's all retroactive, or maybe it's looking for, you know, trying to make sense of the randomness of the world, and it actually makes you feel better to know that there's, you know, some type of evil force that's making everything go along. Who knows, right? It depends who you ask, right? My mom and I, we've debated this at length, but I like conspiracies because I think they're just fun to dive into. It's interesting to hear, like, oh, this is actually how things work. And Hollow Earth is no different. It seems like a lot of conspiracies these days. They. They get a little serious, you know, they. They. They get a little. They get a little dangerous. They start making you feel not so good. That's why I like to jump into the old conspiracies, the OGs, the classics. And Hollow Earth is a classic, classic conspiracy theory. Not one I particularly subscribe to, but there are all sorts of interesting intersect. This, you know, ties in with science and mythology and literature and spirituality. And the Nazis, of course, are always tied in with all this weird. So without further ado, let's dig in. That was Miles's joke. So if you didn't laugh, just let's get a Miles in the comments. Anyway, so what is the Hollow Earth theory? Great question. Just at its core. Okay, no pun intended. The Hollow Earth theory is suggesting that at the center of our Earth, underneath our feet, is not some type of molten core, you know, with lava and all that stuff. No, it's actually completely hollow. And not only is it hollow, but this vast interior space is a home for hidden civilizations, ancient advanced beings, aliens, or potentially even, you know, ecosystems, animals, all sorts of stuff. Some versions of this theory Propose that there are entrances at the north and south poles. And there are, apparently the Nazis were interested in. There's, there's all sorts of fascinating, fascinating theories that go along with hollow earth. But where did this come from? Where did someone who thought of this in the first place? It goes all the way back to 1692 with the astronomer Edmund Halley, or Halley, I'm assuming it's Haley. I always pronounce it Halley's Comet. Right. Miles agrees. No, no, no, no. You missed the boat, missed the comet. So the story begins in 1692 with the famed astronomer Edmund Halley. You've probably heard of this guy. Halley's comet flies around, you know, every hundred something years. So this guy, Edmund Haley, he's trying to explain the magnetic variations and some like, strange atmospheric phenomena. Okay, just from an astronomer's point of view. He's working astronomy, but he's. There's these aberrations in the magnetic field and he doesn't know why. And so he proposes this idea that the Earth consists of several concentric shells rotating at different speeds around this hollow core. And this theory, obviously, you know, it seems crazy today, but at the time it represented like a real attempt to explain this phenomena that people, you know, and scientists were stunned by that they couldn't explain. But what's interesting about this fantastical theory is that Edmund Haley was not the first person to, you know, sort of think about what was at the center of the Earth. No, not at all. All righty.
- [06:47]
Sponsor Voice
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- [07:06]
Mark Gagnon
A bunch of other dates.
- [07:07]
Sponsor Voice
You can get all that in the.
- [07:09]
Mark Gagnon
Description also in probably the comments of this episod episode.
- [07:11]
Sponsor Voice
Go see me on the road. Come hang out. I'll be hanging out with everyone after the show. Come shake my hand, call me an idiot, whatever you want to do, I will be there.
- [07:19]
Mark Gagnon
Additionally, I will be doing my one.
- [07:21]
Sponsor Voice
Hour of stand up comedy. I'm very proud of this hour.
- [07:23]
Mark Gagnon
I'm really excited to share with you guys and it would mean the world.
- [07:26]
Sponsor Voice
If everyone could come on out. And what do you wear to a show on the road?
- [07:29]
Mark Gagnon
That's a great question. You can go to Campgoods Co. That's right. We got merch, we got camp merch.
- [07:34]
Sponsor Voice
We got hats, hoodies, T shirts.
- [07:36]
Mark Gagnon
A lot of stuff is out of stock.
- [07:37]
Sponsor Voice
Things have been selling like hotcakes. But we're going to be restocking everything in all the sizes so you can go there right now. You know, get all the merch, get all the coolest clothing in the podcast game. We're going to be updating that site regularly. And if you come out to a.
- [07:48]
Mark Gagnon
Show, I'd love to see you sporting.
- [07:50]
Sponsor Voice
Some of the threads that we got up online.
- [07:52]
Mark Gagnon
I'll see you guys there. Let's get back to the show.
- [07:57]
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- [08:26]
Mark Gagnon
Lonzo ball for buzzballs ready to go.
- [08:28]
Miles McCreary
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- [08:31]
Sponsor Voice
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- [08:32]
Mark Gagnon
Script says Biggie's Blue balls. Lonzo.
- [08:34]
Miles McCreary
Take 13 blue balls just dropped their biggest buzz balls.
- [08:38]
Mark Gagnon
Let's try a vault science. Buzz balls. Biggies. Blue balls. Buzz balls. Biggies. Blue balls. Big balls.
- [08:45]
Sponsor Voice
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- [08:48]
Mark Gagnon
This season with buzz balls.
- [08:50]
Miles McCreary
Please responsibly.
- [08:51]
Mark Gagnon
Buzz balls.
- [08:52]
Sponsor Voice
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- [08:53]
Miles McCreary
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- [08:55]
Mark Gagnon
Texas this goes all the way back to ancient times in old mythology. That's right, Greek mythology, Hades ruled the underworld. Where is the underworld? It is this subterranean realm where, you know, spirits of dead people and, you know, your grandma, whatever. That's where they would go. Everybody. They'd all go to the underworld, which is not just some pit of darkness somewhere. It is an elaborate kingdom with rivers, you know, like sticks, fields of punishment, you know, the blessed realm of. Of Ilysium. All sorts of cool stuff. It's like a whole. It was a whole city. It was like a. It was like a. Like a. Like a subdivision of like a. Like a town or something. And the Norse cosmos. They also had this. They had this place that was known as Svartalfheim. Svartalheim. Svartalfai. Him. It's an underground home of dwarves, basically, and craftsmen who make magic weapons and artifacts for the gods, of course. And where else are they going to live, right? Dwarves are Pretty short. So center of the Earth seems like a good spot. Eastern traditions, they talked about underground kingdoms, like the Buddhists, they talk about Agartha and Shambhala, while modern interpretations place these as, like, you know, that they're not necessarily beneath the earth's surface. You know, traditional texts describe them as spiritual dimensions, but, you know, sometimes people say maybe it's not so spiritual. Da, da, da. It's. It's contested. You know, Native Americans, even, they got their own thing. Their mythology says that some of the most direct connections to underground worlds happen through the. The native culture. That's. That's how they connect with their ancestors. Many tribes trace their origins to the emerg of the earth itself. So a lot of native tribes, like, for example, the Hopi people, they believe that there's an existence of three previous worlds beneath the current one, and humanity is climbing upwards through the hollow tree branch or the hollow reed to reach each new realm after the previous one was destroyed. The Navajo speak of the first people emerging from three underground worlds before reaching the current surface world, which, again, just demonstrates how this concept of this subterranean realm is. It's. It's persisted in human consciousness for a very, very long time. Fascinating, right? But the modern theory doesn't really take shape until, like, 19th century. All right, so 1818, you have this U.S. army officer, this guy, John Cleaves Sims Jr. Column. Johnny. He becomes the theory's most like, prominent advocate. He's the one that makes it just, you know, go. Go crazy. And he declares that the Earth is hollow. And not only is it hollow, it is habitable within, quote, unquote. His idea is known as the Sims hole theory, which is hilarious to name a theory after yourself and include hole. This is Gagnon's whole theory, like the entire theory? No, no, no. It's about his hole. And the. What he proposed in the Sims hole theory is basically that the Earth is hollow, habitable, and has openings at the north and South Poles, these polar openings, which he then termed. You know, obviously these Sims holes were about 4,000 miles in diameter. Pretty big. 4,000 miles in diameter. That's like the size of the entire United States. And on either end of the Earth, that's a portal to the middle. He claimed that these entrances, like, just gradually, like, curved inward, allowing ships to sail effortlessly from the outside to the inside without ever even realizing that they crossed the threshold. It's. I mean, it's just like. It's silly now, obviously, but people didn't know. It seems crazy. I feel like in 1818, people had some idea. You know, people are like, yeah, this, that is absurd. Like, who would believe that? Again, this guy had all these theories. He had it all worked out. And because he was military, people were like, maybe there's something here. So again, he says at the edges of these openings, there's ice and seasonal weather patterns that make it impossible to discover. Convenient. The interior of the Earth, according to this guy, was not only hollow, but habitable. He suggests that the inner surface gets enough light and warmth from a miniature sun suspended in the center of the cavity of the Earth. And this internal sun creates a temperate climate through the inner world, making like animal life and vegetation. It's awesome. He's got the sick ass, you know, internal Earth thing, which would be cool if it existed. Go on vacation in the middle of the Earth, be awesome. And the atmosphere apparently is like, clean. And, you know, there's no pollutants from the outside surface. And maybe the craziest part about, you know, Sims entire theory is that the Earth consisted of five concentric spheres nested inside of each other, separated by layers of atmosphere. Each of these shells was said to have, you know, its own gravity. And he believed each sphere harbored distinct civilizations and ecosystems. All right, he was crazy. I don't know how else to put it. He puts this whole theory forward and people buy it. People love the idea that there's a civilization at the middle of the Earth. And they, you know, they're like, dude, this guy's in the military. Why would he lie? Well, so this is where it gets fascinating, right? This guy Johnny Sims proposes this theory and people believe it kind of. He gains like a cult, like, following throughout, like Ohio, in Kentucky, Ohio, you know, where he's from, and goes on these speeches and does these large tours, think like, like a TED talk in the 1800s. And he's just going around, you know, having these conventions, talking about hollow Earth, and people are loving it. Sometimes hundreds, maybe even thousands of people gathering around to hear this guy talk about what he believes is happening at the center of the Earth. Of course it sounds a little crazy, but what's interesting is that it does spark a movement in a way, and I think touches on something interesting about human beings that we're interested in, you know, the unknown, that even in this time, you know, things, we got flat Earthers today. There's always been flat Earthers. There's always been people believing in, you know, just these insane theories. And at this time in history, it was no different. But what's fascinating is that he inspires a gentleman by the name of Jeremiah Reynolds. Now, again, this guy, John Sims, he's petitioning Congress, he's trying to get Congress to come forward and give him a grant to actually go to the center of the Earth through this, you know, tunnel system, through the polls, he never gets funding. United States government says, no thanks, we're good. But this guy, Jeremiah Reynolds, this guy is fascinating. So he's a newspaper editor and a public speaker, and he was a true believer of Sims and his Hollow Earth theory. And he toured the country in the 1820s, given the. Giving lectures. Basically the same thing that Sims was doing about the polar regions and about Hollow Earth and how important and fascinating the polar regions were. Were. And over time, he ended up speaking to more and more people. He ends up kind of changing his perspective away from pseudoscience and becomes an actual researcher that wants to explore the poles of Earth, specifically the South Pole. And so what does he do? He, with his, you know, his media background, creates this public fascination with polar exploration. He lobbies the government in the 1820s and 1830s, specifically Congress and the Navy, to fund a South Pole expedition. And early on, he was kind of laughed at and, you know, they. They sort of shoot him away. But his messages caught the attention of, like, naval officers and scientists that were interested in making a name for themselves. And so they kind of started putting plans together to actually do a South Pole mission. It's crazy. And Reynolds was eventually kicked off the mission due to, you know, political infighting and just kind of being a crazy person. But his relentless advocacy inspires, like, directly the Wilkes expedition, which becomes the first major global exploration mission, specifically going to the South Pole. And on that mission, they chart 1500 miles of the Arctic coast and basically proved that Antarctica was a continent and not just, you know, scattered random islands, that it was actually a solid island, you know, glob. So this one guy, John Sims, basically inspires a movement that discovers Antarctica because he was crazy. I shouldn't say he was crazy. I think that's kind of rude to call people crazy, but because he had these fringe crazy theories that obviously were wild, but he did inspire an entire movement to go discover Antarctica. So shout out to Johnny Sims legend if you want to go check out his statue. He's got a giant statue in Ohio that is his children put up for him. It's right there, right now. Now these theories from old John Sims and our good friend Jeremiah Reynolds get even more popular and actually inspire a movement, a specifically a literary movement. This guy Jules Verne probably heard of him famous author, 1864, he writes his masterpiece, a brilliant work of fiction known as Journey to the center of the Earth, which, at that point, you know, once this book drops, the entire American public is captivated with this idea of what's at the middle of the Earth. And Verne didn't really embrace the traditional, like, Hollow Earth concept, of course. His vision of vast underground caverns, prehistoric life, subterranean seas, do popularize the idea of these habitable realms underneath our feet. And his careful attention to science, although dated by the standards of today, lend credibility to this idea of, like, well, maybe there are underground civilizations. You know, who knows? And not only them, Edgar Allan Poe and Edgar Rice Burroughs, two famous authors and poets in their own right. They take different approaches. Poe writes the narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym in 1838 using the idea of polar openings to create, like, this, you know, mystery horror. Well, Burroughs creates a series that imagines a complete world on the inner surface of the Earth's crust, internally lit by this, you know, central sun. Okay, so this is the part in the Hollow Earth story that gets fascinating. So, 1946, you have a little thing known as Operation High Jump. This is awesome. You should absolutely read the Wikipedia page on this. Okay, this is a classic conspiracy. This happens in 46, under the command of this guy, Admiral Richard E. Byrd. And this is basically the largest Antarctic expedition in history. The mission involves, like, almost 5,000 people, 13 ships, a bunch of aircrafts, and the stated purpose is to establish an Antarctic research base. That's. That's what they're doing. They're going down there, they're making Little America 4. And this is just a spot where they can, you know, test out some military equipment and polar conditions, you know, just in case there's a war with Russia or something. Give them a little playground that's freezing. And the scale of this operation is insane. It's larger than any typical research mission ever, right at this point. Like, it, you know, it's. It's massive. And with these massive expeditions to bizarre and unusual places, of course, it is going to fuel a lot of speculation about the true purpose. So, again, there's a lot of rumor and conspiracy and myth with a lot of this. So I'm going to try to parse down exactly what is real and what's not as best I can. So the expedition, while officially, you know, it's successful in its mapping and research objectives, it ends six months earlier than they planned. Now, if you're wondering, like, hey, how is that possible? What research? What Federal Research Mission ends earlier on time, under budget. Never happens. Everything always goes later. But this one, six months earlier than planned. Official reports cite that the deteriorating weather conditions and, you know, that's the reason that they had to, you know, pack it up. But this premature conclusion has become a cornerstone of many conspiracies, specifically the Hollow Earth conspiracy theories. Believers suggest that the mission encountered something unprecedented beneath the ice, forcing its early termination. They point to all these different scattered reports of unusual aerial phenomena and, you know, UAPs, unexplained equipment malfunctions during the expedition. Maybe the most controversial aspect is it emerges from an interview with Admiral Byrd published in El Mercurial, a Chilean newspaper, where he allegedly big, allegedly warned about flying objects capable of traveling from pole to pole at incredible speeds. While this interview's authenticity remains, you know, disputed, it has become a foundational text for those who believe the expedition discovered evidence of, you know, some civilization, maybe at the South Pole, maybe in the center of the Earth. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because we have a new sponsor of the show that I'm so excited about that I need to tell you, so listen up. Our food is important. What you eat is who you are. It's how you think, how you feel, how you work out. It basically encompasses everything. But unfortunately, our food doesn't have the nutrients we need to be our best. And that's where Symbiotica comes in. Symbiotica is the greatest supplement brand in the world, and here's why they got all these different supplements. I actually take these every single day. Specifically the magnesium L threonate. I take this before I go to sleep, and it helps me sleep better. Magnesium is amazing for helping me go to sleep. Look it up. 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- [23:46]
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- [23:47]
Mark Gagnon
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- [24:40]
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- [24:56]
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Mark Gagnon
His alleged experiences during his Antarctic, you know, flights have become central to this mythology, specifically this discovery of like an entrance. And according to believers, Bird's personal diary published after his death describes flying. You know, these ice walls of, you know, the Antarctic and this warm, lush region beyond the ice walls, complete with mountains and forests and lakes where there should only be ice, but instead of ice, it is lush, almost tropical. The most sensational claims involve Byrd's encounter with representatives from an advanced civilization living in the earth. Yes, this is, this is what people claim. This is allegedly from Admiral Byrd's personal journals. Again, the authenticity of these journals have never been reported. Most people dispute them and they say that these are falsifications or fabrications. They're not True, they're hoaxes, but according to the believers, this is what they say. The beings express concern about humanity's development of nuclear weapons and warn about the dangers of continuing on this path. While again, no evidence supports the authenticity of the diary, the contents have become deeply embedded in conspiracy culture all over the place, specifically Hollow Earth stuff. The contrast between Bird's official reports, which focus on, you know, scientific observations and, you know, mapping and, you know, all the normal stuff you can imagine, and these alleged secret discoveries highlight the gap between, you know, the documented history, but then also the. The narrative and the more interesting conspiracy history. While Byrd's actual accomplishments in polar exploration were honestly, like, amazing, right? He charted, mapped a ton of the Antarctic. He actually was the guy, for the record, that did the first flight over the South Pole. A lot of these achievements have become overshadowed by the idea that he met up with alien Donald Trump at the center of the Earth. Like some type of leader came out and was just like, what's up, dude? We're living downstairs. Can you guys keep it down? Less nukes. So it gets even wilder, right? So even in Sims time, the scientific community overwhelmingly rejects all these ideas. They say this is not true. This Hollow Earth thing is bs. Newton's law of gravity says that, you know, an immediate and insurmountable. You know, basically, it disputes all of the Hollow Earth stuff. He says it's not. It's not possible. The mathematical models that Newton proposes demonstrate that any large mass in space would collapse under its own gravitational force into a roughly spherical shape with the densest material settling at the center. Not hollow, not open at the top and the bottom. We're not going to let that get in the way of, you know, having a fascinating little convo about it, right? The fundamental principle of gravity meant that the hollow planet would be inherently unstable and would collapse. Maybe it's possible there are hollow planets, but then they get collapsed into solid cord planets. But let me just say Admiral Byrd, with the, you know, the good old boys in the United States, wasn't the only person that was interested in Antarctica and, you know, maybe figuring out this Hollow Earth situation. The Nazis. Oh, yeah, it always. It always gets to the Nazis. These bastards, they also have a connection to, you know, some version of Hollow Earth in their own way. I did a different episode where I talked about the Tool Society. This is this occult group that, you know, had a lot of sway and influence over early Nazi leadership. Many of the early Nazis, they were a part of this sort of secret group, and they would meet and kind of share ideas. And members of the society maintained that an ancient race of Aryan superhumans originated from a subterranean civilization. Nothing crazy about that. And some of the Nazis allegedly incorporated these beliefs into their pseudoscientific racial theories. Again, Aryanism being a leading idea within, you know, Nazi propaganda, they assert in some cases. Again, it's not like Hitler's out here doing this at the speeches, but according, you know, Heinrich Himmler, some of these other guys close to him are discussing these ideas that perhaps there is a subterranean society of Aryans that will come out once the Germans take over the world. This I, I do believe at some point these guys were sitting around drinking, you know, like a. Like an ale, like some type of, like, German big stein of beer. Talking about this stuff. Crazy makes. It's like, it sounds insane now, but they were. They were trying to find Thor's hammer. They were doing all sorts of stuff. Maybe the most interesting, you know, Nazi Hollow Earth connection is the theory, perhaps we should phrase it, that the Nazis discovered entrances to the hollow Earth during 1938, 1939 Antarctic Expedition. I mean, crazy. So if you don't know, the Nazis went down to Antarctic, basically, like in the middle of World War II, they popped down there, you know, looking specifically, I believe they were looking for whale fat. They were trying to set up whaling stations to get fuel to keep the war going. They were also using it for, you know, trying to find trade routes and all sorts of other stuff, things you could imagine would be beneficial in war. But there is a theory that they went down there and they discovered an entrance to Hollow Earth and they established hidden facilities where they developed advanced technology. These stories gained traction in the immediate, like, post war period. Like, people talked about this. They found out about all these projects that they were doing, and it fueled, you know, this real, like, genuine curiosity surrounding these Nazi projects and a disappearance of a lot of Nazi officials. And if there was a connection with Antarctica, I mean, there's even like. I mean, this is crazy. I don't even know if anyone believes this, but it's worth bringing up, because I found one guy that actually believed it on Reddit. He believed that Hitler escaped, that he didn't die in a bunker. All right, I'm with you. That's possible. But he didn't go to Argentina. No, he went to Inner Earth, that he escaped to Antarctica and then used their portal that they found to get to the center of the Earth, which is where Hitler lives. Hilarious. I mean, just truly, like, this is why I love conspiracy theories. Is that not the Funniest thing you've ever heard, that Hitler just hit a Mario pipe and just popped out of the center of this whole shit and is just chilling down there with the rest of his gay Nazis. Like, I mean, that's hilarious. So, again, the theory has no historical basis. They've obviously proven that Hitler actually. Let me. Let me say this. Maybe they haven't proven that it didn't go to the center of the earth, all right? But I don't think it happened. Maybe he didn't die in the bunker. I'm actually open to that idea. It's possible. I mean, they looked at the Russian skull of Hitler, and, you know, obviously the Soviets have Hitler's skull, and they examined it and they said it was a young woman, not Hitler. And then they stopped kind of letting people look at it. Who knows? I don't know. Maybe Hitler was trans. Does anyone put that theory out there? Maybe he was born a woman. Maybe Hitler was born a woman. He's an artist in Vienna exploring himself. Teed it up, you know what I mean? Lopped off the tatas and then became Old Hitty Boy that we know and love. Maybe not the love part that we all know, that we all are familiar with. And then that's why he grew such a bad mustache. He was on T, and the mustache wasn't thick enough. It was just a little in the middle. And then he kills himself. They find his skull and they examine it. They're like, dude, this is a woman's skull. Hitler didn't die. You're right. Hitler didn't die, but hit arena, whatever his real name was. What do you think, Miles? We got anything on that one? You think it's possible?
- [32:55]
Miles McCreary
I was really. I didn't think you were going to get there. I didn't think you were going to be able to pull it all back, but you sort of did a good job.
- [33:00]
Mark Gagnon
What do they say? Comedy's getting away with it? Yeah, well, let's see. If we did, the comments will say that we did not. So where does that leave us today? Are there modern believers of this Hollow Earth? Almost undoubtedly. Because every minute there is another fucking dumbass that's born that believes in the Hollow Earth. Look again. I love conspiracy. You don't got to get me wrong. Do I think Lee Harvey Oz will kill jfk? No. Do I think that there is a civilization under the Earth also? No aliens in the water? Who knows Hitler under the ground? Probably. I mean, no for sure. I mean, what? Anyway, contemporary versions of this inner Earth idea evolve far Beyond Sims's, you know, simple hollow world stuff, right? You have new science that then can be twisted and sort of used to create new theories. Modern proponents describe a complex society in the middle of the Earth. Multiple cities connected by high speed transit. They got rail down there probably. They got better. They got better high speed rail than America. Imagine that. They got probably a whole thing. They got Burning Man. They probably got a whole thing cooking under there. They got a universal spiritual philosophy that promotes peace and environmentalism. Seems like a liberal's dream. Maybe that's how we solve all the political problems in America. We just send all the libs to the center of the Earth. They're like, dude, you guys got high speed rail, universal oneness and environmental stewardship. What else do you want? Oh, sunlight. You guys are all pale. Anyway, you live in Portland. You can handle the center of the Earth. And let me just say, the people believe this kind of stuff. They believe that this advanced society at the center of the Earth, they, you know, they monitor what's going on on the surface. They see what we're doing, nukes, and they. They're going to intervene if we keep on, you know, threatening, which I think would be the only upside to nuclear war. Let the record show that as things get closer, maybe we get some freaking dope ass aliens. They come up and they're like, yo, you got to stop at this nuke stuff. And they actually stop the show. And they come from the center of the Earth. They're like, yeah, we've been living downstairs the whole time. We're like, what? That's crazy. They're like, yeah, we got Hitler, too. We're like, what? Why'd you guys take him in? And they're like, dude, he's a socialist. And we're like, oh, it's a good point. He fit in with all the liberals in the middle of the Earth. Anyway, we're off the rails here, Miles. Anyway, it wouldn't be a Hollow Earth shakedown without talking about Agartha. This is the. I mentioned this a little earlier. It's the vast kingdom that spans the entirety of Earth's interior. And this is, you know, believed by a lot of different, you know, you know, esoteric traditions. It's a mythology that's kind of drawn upon, you know, by the Tibetan Buddhists. Some Hindu mystics will, you know, subscribe to ideas like this. And according to these believers, they, you know, the civilization possesses technology beyond what we have. Gravity defying objects, life extension methods, clean energy. They claim, you know, that Agartha Is this utopian society where the spiritually enlightened and the, you know, scientifically advanced go and live in perfect harmony, governed by, you know, this hierarchy of spiritual, spiritually evolved beings that, you know, talk about ancient wisdom all day. And believers point to ancient texts describing these underground realms like Shambhala and Patala, and they interpret these metaphors as literal descriptions of physical places. Again, these are metaphors that often talk about these spiritual realms, perhaps these subterranean spiritual realms that the enlightened people go to. And sometimes these mystics will extrapolate that and say, no, no, no. Do you know what that's worth? Subterranean heaven is a place on Earth. And so these modern Agarthian claims, they said there's a bunch of entrances, you can get to the center of the Earth a bunch of different ways, including not only the great pyramids of Giza, Mount Shasta in California, and a bunch of routes in the Himalayas. Most intriguingly, believers assert that the citizens of Agartha regularly communicate with the selected Earth dwellers through telepathy and astral projection. That's right, you want to talk to some advanced people in the center of the Earth, you just got to close your eyes, lay in your bed, astral project, talk to them. And these claims often come with these, you know, sort of self proclaimed contactees who report receiving wisdom and prophecies from their inner Earth masters. So if anyone, you know, talks to you about their inner Earth buddies, that's where that's coming from. So why does this exist? Why are people so fascinated by Hollow Earth? Right? You have this guy, Admiral Byrd, he goes down there, it becomes a big conspiracy theory. Maybe he was doing some weird stuff, I don't know. Probably not. But why does the theory exist regardless, right? The Nazis go down, they're looking for fuel to keep the war going. But then all of a sudden, that becomes a big conspiracy. Like all these people, they're trying to tie in this idea that there is these societies that live under the Earth. I don't know. It's possible that this psychological drive kind of for this unknown knowledge, this hidden truth, perhaps like an advanced technology. I mean, people have been looking for advanced civilizations or even ancient advanced civilizations for the longest time, right? Atlantis, all these places, and maybe there's some truth to it, maybe there's some validity again, I don't know. But I think that might be on the way to go into the Hollow Earth civilization, right? And this desire to find truth kind of leads you to this path that you're like, all right, I'm talking to People in the center of the earth. The theory resonates with individuals who harbor a fundamental distrust of, you know, institutions, scientific authorities, which again, makes sense. You don't got to tell me, right? Trust the science. It's like, all right, what did the science tell us to eat in the 90s? They're like, oh, mostly bread. You're like, all right, well, that's not good for you. And so, of course there's going to be skepticism. That happens. Also, why did they say to eat bread? Oh, the grain lobby is forcing them to put it on there. Okay, well, money gets in the way of people actually trusting the government. Crazy. So you have a bunch of people that are disenfranchised with the science. You know, the medical establishment, the scientific institutions that create policy and create ideas for our society. So what do they do? They follow these little fringe theories. They get into it again. Hollow Earth is not some type of alternative scientific model. It is a underground theory. Say again?
- [39:42]
Miles McCreary
Underground theory.
- [39:43]
Mark Gagnon
It's very underground. As underground as it gets. I mean, you're three for three on puns right now. Thanks. You didn't even want the microphone. You're like, all right, I'm just gonna just hit it with that. So, I don't know. I find Hollow Earth to be interesting, fun, but I'm not particularly compelled. What's up, guys?
- [40:02]
Sponsor Voice
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Mark Gagnon
Okay.
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Sponsor Voice
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Mark Gagnon
And that's what I want to tell.
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Sponsor Voice
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Mark Gagnon
That's right.
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- [42:06]
Mark Gagnon
What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick.
- [42:08]
Sponsor Voice
Because I'm sitting here in my beautiful tent, as you can see, every week.
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Mark Gagnon
Day in, day out.
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Sponsor Voice
And people always ask, they say, mark, how do I have a tent like that?
- [42:15]
Mark Gagnon
I want to.
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Sponsor Voice
I want to sit in a beautiful tent and invite a lover, a friend, you know, someone that I appreciate and adore. I want to give them a good time inside my tent.
- [42:24]
Mark Gagnon
Well, it's easy.
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Sponsor Voice
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Mark Gagnon
That'S right.
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Sponsor Voice
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Mark Gagnon
That's right.
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Mark Gagnon
That means you don't have to go to a doctor's office and, you know, talk to them. Be like, oh, you know, I'm feeling some type of way.
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Sponsor Voice
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Mark Gagnon
Are, you know, lacking necessarily.
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Mark Gagnon
That's right.
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Mark Gagnon
Is this.
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- [43:32]
Mark Gagnon
And let's get back to the show.
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Sponsor Voice
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Mark Gagnon
Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms@mintmobile.com so there you have it folks. That is the entirety of the belief on Hollow Earth. Again, I find it fascinating because I think it highlights a few different things, right? I think it shows the sort of theories of, you know, how science kind of evolves. You have people way back in ancient Greece kind of following the spiritual traditions. Like maybe there's Hades, maybe there's this place under the ground, yada yada. And then that eventually goes into actual science. We have guys like Edmund Haley being like, yo, how does all this work, right? Like the, like these magnets, you have these aberrations, what's going on? And then you have people that jump on those ideas and then they, you know, are looking for this Hollow Earth explanation. And then that turns into actual funding and research that then creates a expedition to the Antarctic. And then you have, you know, the US government going down there and actually flying over the South Pole. And then you have the Nazis going. It's just crazy. Like the entire lineage of all these different things all tied together to create one cohesive story. About something that kind of makes no sense, but it also highlights something interesting. Like we want to believe human beings have desire to try to figure stuff out. And I guess what could be, you know, people looking, stars, and like, what's going on up there? It makes sense. You'd look at the ground and be like, what's happening underneath? I can't wait till they drill a hole all the way through. How, how lit will that be? What do you think happens? Well, you think magma comes up if they get a, like a hole all the way down to the center of.
- [45:56]
Miles McCreary
The earth, I think it gets too hot. I don't think we can get there.
- [45:59]
Mark Gagnon
But if. There must be a way, right? No, there could be. I mean, this is like asking someone in Kitty Hawk like, oh, you think they can fly? And they're like, no, it's impossible to fly.
- [46:10]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, I think you just hit. Have we even got past the crust?
- [46:13]
Mark Gagnon
I don't think so.
- [46:14]
Miles McCreary
That's crazy. So we actually don't know what's under there?
- [46:16]
Mark Gagnon
That's what I'm saying. Right. It's possible. Like no one knows. Under. It's definitely. Shouldn't say definitely. Probably not hollow.
- [46:23]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, but we don't. I mean, like.
- [46:25]
Mark Gagnon
But what is it?
- [46:25]
Miles McCreary
We really don't know. How far have we got down?
- [46:28]
Mark Gagnon
Let's find out. I have no idea.
- [46:30]
Miles McCreary
The cola super deep borehole.
- [46:32]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, hell yeah.
- [46:33]
Miles McCreary
It's in Russia.
- [46:35]
Mark Gagnon
7.6 miles.
- [46:37]
Miles McCreary
That's not far.
- [46:38]
Mark Gagnon
That's not far at all. And the temperature down there is 356 degrees Fahrenheit.
- [46:46]
Miles McCreary
I can run that. And that's. That means it's not very far.
- [46:49]
Mark Gagnon
Not at all. Rocks behave plastically at the depth.
- [46:53]
Miles McCreary
Wow.
- [46:54]
Mark Gagnon
Like it's just. You're just going through plastic and so as a result, it's hard to drill.
- [46:59]
Miles McCreary
Weird.
- [47:00]
Mark Gagnon
And yeah, you got it. Like the drill bits just break down. Maybe pour some water in there.
- [47:06]
Miles McCreary
How, how wide is it?
- [47:09]
Mark Gagnon
I don't know.
- [47:10]
Miles McCreary
Could you fall in?
- [47:12]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, that'd be crazy, dude. A seven mile fall to the center of the Earth. Imagine that's what Jules Verne's novel was. Journey to the center of the Earth. And it's just one of those falls.
- [47:22]
Miles McCreary
32 pages exactly.
- [47:24]
Mark Gagnon
It's like, ah, it just dies. But yeah, dude, the Earth's crust is 70km thick. We haven't even broken through the crust.
- [47:33]
Miles McCreary
So we have no idea.
- [47:35]
Mark Gagnon
Whoa. Well, we do know it's probably not hollow. You got right geology, seismology, all that kind of stuff. I don't know what it is, but someone has concluded, and I tend to believe him because it just is a little too out there for me. But if it's wrong, I apologize.
- [47:49]
Miles McCreary
That's crazy. We've gone to the moon.
- [47:51]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah.
- [47:52]
Miles McCreary
And not even eight miles the other direction.
- [47:56]
Mark Gagnon
Crazy. Yeah.
- [47:57]
Miles McCreary
Yeah. That's a wild thing to say.
- [48:00]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah. And so I don't know. I don't know how they know it's magma. I guess they're just assuming.
- [48:06]
Miles McCreary
Yeah.
- [48:07]
Mark Gagnon
What's at the center of the sun? You think the same shit.
- [48:10]
Miles McCreary
But isn't it fully gaseous the whole way through?
- [48:13]
Mark Gagnon
That's a good point. So I never know. There must be a center. So many cool questions out there.
- [48:18]
Miles McCreary
Yeah. I think it's plasma and gas all the way through.
- [48:22]
Mark Gagnon
Let's find out. Does the sun have a center? Oh, called the core. The core is the innermost 20% of the Sun's radius. It's around 27 million degrees Fahrenheit, and it's 340 billion times the Earth's atmosphere.
- [48:39]
Miles McCreary
Is it still gas? What is it made of?
- [48:41]
Mark Gagnon
It's plasma. High pressure soup of charged particles.
- [48:45]
Miles McCreary
Also, I like that they say how hot it is. They have no idea. I mean, at that point, just keep bumping the number up.
- [48:51]
Mark Gagnon
See, I think Nate Bargassi had a bit about this, but, like, it is very funny. He's like, how come scientists are allowed to be wrong? Like, you have a scientist, they'll be like, yeah, the universe is 2 billion years old. And they'll be like, actually, it's 4 billion. Did that first sign is lose his job? He was completely wrong.
- [49:06]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, that's very true.
- [49:07]
Mark Gagnon
Wasn't even remotely close. He just like, like, not even. He was twice as wrong. He could like, Right. Like, what's two plus two? Two.
- [49:18]
Miles McCreary
Yeah.
- [49:18]
Mark Gagnon
No, it's actually not two, it's four. Like, oh, well, if you said the wrong thing, then is there's no penalty. Scientists can just come up with shit and then no one gets mad at them for it.
- [49:27]
Miles McCreary
I also, like, the scientists can pick numbers that are just specifics. Like, the specificity of numbers is so interesting. If you. If you look at the height of Everest, I think it's like a. Almost round number.
- [49:39]
Mark Gagnon
Probably not.
- [49:40]
Miles McCreary
It's. It's specifically so close to round that in my opinion, when I look at it, I'm like, should be somewhere in the middle. It should be like. I think it's 29,032ft. No, the 32 feels almost like they got to 29,000 and it was exactly that.
- [50:00]
Mark Gagnon
And they were like, no one's gonna believe it.
- [50:02]
Miles McCreary
Toss. Toss some numbers on.
- [50:03]
Mark Gagnon
That is a good point. Right? Like, imagine your boss is like, yo, check out how tall Everest is. And you're like, all right, we got it. And it comes out as 29,000. You're like, yeah, there's no way anyone's gonna believe it's 20.
- [50:12]
Miles McCreary
But if I told you it's 29. 484, you'd go, yeah, sure, great. Perfectly odd.
- [50:18]
Mark Gagnon
But I actually believe 29,032. Because if you're gonna lie, there's no way you're gonna put 32. If you're gonna lie, you're gonna make it 432. It's true, right? Like, if you were to make up a fake phone number, it wouldn't be like 971-000-00032.
- [50:35]
Miles McCreary
Yeah.
- [50:36]
Mark Gagnon
You'd put some other numbers.
- [50:37]
Miles McCreary
Yeah.
- [50:37]
Mark Gagnon
So if someone's get. If some girl gives you a number at 00032, it's a real number.
- [50:41]
Miles McCreary
I had a friend whose last four digits number was four zeros.
- [50:45]
Mark Gagnon
Whoa.
- [50:46]
Miles McCreary
That's kind of cell phone number.
- [50:48]
Mark Gagnon
Are you able to get custom cell phone numbers?
- [50:50]
Miles McCreary
I'm sure.
- [50:51]
Mark Gagnon
Like a vanity plate.
- [50:53]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, I'm sure. It has to be, right?
- [50:55]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, I mean, yeah, of course, I guess. I mean. No, of course. No, I think you can. Because think about all the, like, law firms. Oh, yeah, you know, dial 479-999-9999.
- [51:07]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, but that's like toll. There's something toll free or something. I think that's what is a toll.
- [51:11]
Mark Gagnon
On a phone call?
- [51:12]
Miles McCreary
I don't know.
- [51:13]
Mark Gagnon
Call toll free.
- [51:14]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, call toll free.
- [51:15]
Mark Gagnon
I'm paying money for this shit.
- [51:16]
Miles McCreary
Isn't the toll the noise it makes before you? No, no, the burn.
- [51:22]
Mark Gagnon
What, who's paying it? Yeah, me. Was that.
- [51:27]
Miles McCreary
No.
- [51:27]
Mark Gagnon
Was that a thing that stopped people from calling people?
- [51:29]
Miles McCreary
You ever seen the one where, like, if you get a call out of like a jail, does that cost money?
- [51:35]
Mark Gagnon
Oh, like you are currently being connected.
- [51:37]
Miles McCreary
To the corrections facility, blah, blah. And it costs you money?
- [51:41]
Mark Gagnon
I think.
- [51:42]
Sponsor Voice
No.
- [51:43]
Mark Gagnon
Well, I guess it probably should. Like, if you're in charge, someone gotta pay for it. Do they? Like, every call is told because I'm paying ATT to put my call through.
- [51:55]
Miles McCreary
Do you remember when you didn't have to use. Your life was small enough, you didn't use the area code.
- [52:02]
Mark Gagnon
What do you mean?
- [52:03]
Miles McCreary
Like, when I was a kid, I knew all my friends phone numbers. Growing up, I could still tell you every one of My friends phone numbers from childhood. No. No area code before. Because when you're in the area code, if you just dial seven numbers, it defaults to your own area code.
- [52:16]
Mark Gagnon
That's not true.
- [52:17]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, it is.
- [52:18]
Mark Gagnon
No way.
- [52:18]
Miles McCreary
The cell phones have ruined this. This is why we all have to use area codes. But on a house phone.
- [52:23]
Mark Gagnon
What?
- [52:23]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, you're on the local line. That's local.
- [52:26]
Mark Gagnon
Like on a landline.
- [52:27]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, Yeah. I would call my friends houses, and we had an old rotary phone, and I never did my area code. It was just seven numbers.
- [52:34]
Mark Gagnon
Whoa.
- [52:34]
Miles McCreary
Yeah.
- [52:35]
Mark Gagnon
I never knew that.
- [52:36]
Miles McCreary
Yeah.
- [52:37]
Mark Gagnon
You're ancient.
- [52:38]
Miles McCreary
I'm not ancient.
- [52:39]
Mark Gagnon
You're old. You're 50. That's crazy. What a world, dude. What do you think? What do you think people back in your hometown think about Hollow Earth? You got any family that subscribes?
- [52:52]
Miles McCreary
No, I think that one's, like, a little too far outside.
- [52:55]
Mark Gagnon
It's a little too wacky.
- [52:57]
Miles McCreary
It's not even that it's too wacky. I think it's almost too, like.
- [53:02]
Mark Gagnon
Old.
- [53:03]
Miles McCreary
Like, it feels like an old timey thing.
- [53:05]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, but those are kind of charming to me.
- [53:07]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, they are charming. I think this one is incredibly charming of a conspiracy because it's like, no one died. It's very, like, 1920s. Like, feels like a play. You know what I mean?
- [53:19]
Mark Gagnon
It's just like a nice little warm snack before you go to bed.
- [53:22]
Miles McCreary
Yeah. The conspiracy has nothing to do with, like, awfulness.
- [53:25]
Mark Gagnon
No.
- [53:25]
Miles McCreary
Which all modern day's conspiracy does.
- [53:27]
Mark Gagnon
It all gets so serious.
- [53:29]
Miles McCreary
Yeah, they're awful.
- [53:30]
Mark Gagnon
They're like, dude, did we go to the moon? And they're like, wait till you found what they found up there. Dude, don't we think the.
- [53:36]
Miles McCreary
Didn't someone think the moon was hollow or something?
- [53:40]
Mark Gagnon
Fake, made of cheese. Why was that cheese thing? I think it was like a movie or something.
- [53:46]
Miles McCreary
But, yeah, it feels like a black and white film. It really does feel like a black and white film. Like, Journey to the center of the Earth is also very old school. All of this is, like, a very fun conspiracy. And I think anyone in my family or just anyone I know, they like the meme. They're all just so up to date on, like, what's going on.
- [54:04]
Mark Gagnon
Mm. The people believe that the moon is made of cheese. Came from the 1500s. Whoa. It was apparently satire that people misremembered as belief. So the English in mainland Europe, they had folk tales of this naive character, often called the fool or the yokel. And he sees the moon's reflection in water and thinks that it's a round wheel of cheese. And these stories were meant to mock the gullible and to, you know, they didn't literally believe that the moon was made of cheese, but then as time went on, people started to believe that. Oh, back in the day, people believed it was made of cheese. And then, like, Looney Tunes did it. Wallace and Gromit, they, like, bit it. The world never changes. Also, for the record, no one really believed in flat earth ever.
- [54:47]
Miles McCreary
You don't think so?
- [54:48]
Mark Gagnon
Almost never. Like, basically, like, it, like, stopped, like, fairly recently, or. No, it stopped way back in the day. But then people misremembered it, being like, oh, yeah, back. You know, people used to believe in flowers. They thought they were going to fall off. Like, Christopher Columbus did not think he was going to fall off the earth.
- [55:03]
Miles McCreary
Huh.
- [55:04]
Mark Gagnon
And it's just one of those things that gets misremembered. I think we look at people back in the day, we're like, dude, they're so dumb.
- [55:09]
Miles McCreary
You think they're dumber?
- [55:10]
Mark Gagnon
We're so smart with our freaking iPhones. Like, we're sick as hell just looking at tits and cats on our phones. Like, dude, we're so much smarter than them.
- [55:17]
Miles McCreary
Apparently Godzilla and King Kong both come from Hollow Earth.
- [55:22]
Mark Gagnon
Yeah, yeah. No, there's a. There's a persistence in pop culture today. Like, there's a lot of, you know, pop culture folklore that has, you know, like, video games, comic books, Godzilla, King Kong in 2021, reimagined Hollow Earth as, you know, the source of prehistoric life.
- [55:41]
Miles McCreary
That's cool. I like that. That's a fun place to get them from, right? Yeah, that's a fun. That's a fun one. I like that.
- [55:48]
Mark Gagnon
So, anyway, this has been our exploration to the center of the Earth. Thank you guys so much for joining us for another episode of camp. This is my tent, where it all happens. If you're interested in seeing me on the road, I have tour dates. I'll put that in the comments below. And I just like hanging out with y' all. So if you want to join me again, we'll be putting out these episodes twice a week, perhaps even thrice a week. And you can find me right here in my tent. Sometimes it's Miles, sometimes it's Christo. Sometimes it's a random person that joins me, and we just figure out the most interesting, fascinating things from all time, throughout all history, throughout every society ever. We're going to get to the bottom of it all. See you guys in the next one.
- [56:24]
Sponsor Voice
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- [57:21]
Mark Gagnon
We'll see you next time.