La Santa Muerte: Dangerous Cult or Spiritual Devotion

Summary

Camp Gagnon Podcast Summary Episode: La Santa Muerte: Dangerous Cult or Spiritual Devotion
Host: Mark Gagnon
Release Date: June 29, 2025

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Introduction to Santa Muerte

The episode begins with Mark Gagnon introducing the enigmatic figure of Santa Muerte, a folk saint in Mexico who embodies both reverence and fear. Described as a skeleton adorned with symbols ranging from cartel tattoos to household candles, Santa Muerte has amassed a following of approximately 2 to 5 million people. Gagnon sets the stage by questioning whether Santa Muerte is merely a grim reaper or a complex syncretic deity influenced by African, indigenous, and Spanish spiritual traditions.

"[00:00] Mark Gagnon: African witchcraft, Catholic saints, and Mexican drug cartels. Typically, you wouldn't think they have anything in common, but that's because you've never heard of Santa Muerte."

Historical Origins of Santa Muerte

Gagnon and his co-host, Gabe, delve into the historical roots of Santa Muerte, tracing her origins to a blend of African diasporan religions, indigenous Mexican beliefs, and Spanish colonial influences.

African Diaspora Influence

The discussion highlights how enslaved Africans brought their spiritual beliefs to Mexico, contributing to the formation of syncretic religions like Santería and Voodoo. These traditions melded with Catholicism, laying the groundwork for Santa Muerte's worship.

"[03:02] Gabe: African rooted traditions may have influenced Santa Muerte's development."

Aztec and Indigenous Roots

The episode explores connections between Santa Muerte and ancient Aztec gods Meklante Kudli and Mechlantecutal, deities of the Aztec underworld. Spanish colonization suppressed indigenous worship during the Inquisition, forcing practices underground and eventually contributing to the resurgence of Santa Muerte worship in the 20th century.

"[09:03] Mark Gagnon: Or Maman Brigitte, a voodoo spirit who's also connected to Oya."

European Influence

Mark Romo, a Mexican scholar, proposes that Santa Muerte's imagery may derive from medieval European depictions of the Grim Reaper, introduced to the Americas by Spanish priests. These skeletal figures were repurposed by indigenous and African populations to align with their own spiritual frameworks.

"[10:03] Mark Gagnon: Spanish priests brought this imagery to the Americas and used it to teach both indigenous people and enslaved Africans about Christianity."

Syncretism and Cultural Blending

The hosts emphasize the deliberate blending of various religious traditions, a process known as syncretism. Santa Muerte serves as a prime example of how oppressed communities merge diverse beliefs to create resilient spiritual practices.

"[03:35] Mark Gagnon: What many scholars will call syncretism is actually completely normal and happens whenever people from different backgrounds come together."

Modern Worship Practices

Santa Muerte's contemporary worship involves structured rituals and personalized offerings. Followers engage in specific practices to request favors, ranging from love and protection to more contentious desires like revenge.

Rituals and Offerings

• Colored Candles: Each color signifies different requests (e.g., red for love, white for protection, black for revenge).

  "[17:12] Gabe: So different colored candles represent different types of requests."

• Material Offerings: Items such as money, fresh flowers, alcohol served in proper glassware, cigars, cigarettes, fruit, bread, water, and incense are commonly placed on altars.

  "[18:20] Mark Gagnon: The altar setup for Santa Muerta is very specific."

• Personal Sacrifices: Some devotees get tattoos or wear jewelry featuring Santa Muerte as a form of offering.

  "[17:29] Mark Gagnon: Some followers will even get tattoos of Santa Muerta as an offering of their own skin and blood."

Personal Relationships with Santa Muerte

Followers build direct and personal relationships with Santa Muerte, often integrating Catholic prayers and symbols into their worship. This blend of Catholicism and folk practices mirrors other African diasporan religions.

"[19:14] Mark Gagnon: Followers aren't going through priests or church channels. They're building this, you know, direct and in many ways, personal relationship with what they believe to be a powerful force who they hope will help them solve real world problems."

Social and Political Context

The resurgence of Santa Muerte worship coincides with Mexico's ongoing struggles with violence, economic instability, and political corruption. As traditional institutions falter, many Mexicans turn to Santa Muerte for protection and guidance, reflecting the historical reliance on spiritual practices for survival.

"[15:26] Mark Gagnon: Santa Muerta's recent popularity explosion coincides with Mexico's political and economic problems."

Media Portrayal vs. Reality

While mainstream media often associates Santa Muerte with criminal activities and drug cartels, the podcast emphasizes the diversity of her followers. People from various walks of life seek her assistance for a multitude of reasons, not limited to illicit endeavors.

"[13:55] Gabe: And the mainstream media often tries to link Santa Muerta with drug trafficking. But the reality is much more complicated."

Conclusion and Reflections

Gagnon concludes by urging listeners to acknowledge the complexity of Santa Muerte worship. He challenges preconceived notions, especially those influenced by his Catholic upbringing, and invites dialogue to better understand this multifaceted spiritual movement.

"[20:28] Mark Gagnon: So whether or not you believe that Santa Muerta is a real force or can actually achieve things or is maybe satanic altogether, it's important to recognize that the worship of this deity or this being or this idea is real for millions of people across Mexico."

Final Thoughts

The episode offers a nuanced exploration of Santa Muerte, highlighting her roots in syncretic religious traditions and her role in contemporary Mexican society. By dissecting historical influences and modern practices, Gagnon provides a comprehensive understanding of why Santa Muerte holds such sway over millions, transcending simplistic categorizations as merely a dangerous cult or a benign spiritual devotion.

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Notable Quotes:

• "[00:00] Mark Gagnon: African witchcraft, Catholic saints, and Mexican drug cartels. Typically, you wouldn't think they have anything in common, but that's because you've never heard of Santa Muerte."

• "[03:35] Mark Gagnon: What many scholars will call syncretism is actually completely normal and happens whenever people from different backgrounds come together."

• "[19:14] Mark Gagnon: Followers aren't going through priests or church channels. They're building this, you know, direct and in many ways, personal relationship with what they believe to be a powerful force who they hope will help them solve real world problems."

• "[20:28] Mark Gagnon: So whether or not you believe that Santa Muerta is a real force or can actually achieve things or is maybe satanic altogether, it's important to recognize that the worship of this deity or this being or this idea is real for millions of people across Mexico."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the core discussions, historical contexts, and contemporary significance of Santa Muerte as explored in the Camp Gagnon podcast episode. It serves as a comprehensive overview for those unfamiliar with the topic, presenting a balanced view of the complexities surrounding this spiritual movement.

Transcript

[Mark Gagnon]

African witchcraft, Catholic saints, and Mexican drug cartels. Typically, you wouldn't think they have anything in common, but that's because you've never heard of Santa Muerte. This is a spiritual movement that the Catholic Church calls satanic and 5 million people call salvation. Mexico's beloved and feared folk, saint of death. She's got tattoos on cartel soldiers, candles on Abuelita's kitchen counters, and altars set up next to Bibles and bullets. Is Santa Muerta just a grim reaper? Or is she hiding African spirits but behind her robe? We'll go into how enslaved Africans, indigenous Mexicans, and Spanish colonizers all unknowingly built her cult together. And we'll explain why a skeleton might actually offer more hope than the Pope. It's history, it's mysticism, and it is more relevant today than you might think. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp.

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[Mark Gagnon]

What's up, people, and welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent, where every single week, we explore the.

[Gabe]

Most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from around.

[Mark Gagnon]

The world, from all time ever.

[Gabe]

I'm joined by my dear friend Gabe on the ones and threes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Gabe, how are you? All right. All right, all right. All right, guys, no time to waste.

[Gabe]

Because we are jumping into one of.

[Mark Gagnon]

The most fascinating, scary, and controversial religious movements happening today. This is wild, and we're going through everything. It's called Santa Muerte. And over the past 30 years or so, this movement has been spreading across.

[Gabe]

North and South America and in the Caribbean region.

[Mark Gagnon]

But today's video, we will just be focusing on Mexico, a skeleton saint that has captured the hearts of millions and millions of people. But where does this figure come from?

[Gabe]

Right, like you've maybe seen the image before.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, we're going to dig through everything. The word diaspora refers to people who.

[Gabe]

Were scattered from their original homeland.

[Mark Gagnon]

In this case, it describes the millions.

[Gabe]

Of Africans who were enslaved and forced to leave their home continent. These displaced people Brought their spiritual beliefs.

[Mark Gagnon]

With them, Creating religions like voodoo in Haiti, or santeria in Cuba, Or Palomonte meombe or obeya in Jamaica, and spiritism throughout Latin America.

[Gabe]

And each of these traditions represents how.

[Mark Gagnon]

African people adapted their original spiritual practices to survive in new and often hostile environments. Surprisingly, researchers have barely scratched the surface when it comes to studying how these.

[Gabe]

African rooted traditions May have influenced Santa Muerte's development. Trying to understand how different religious traditions.

[Mark Gagnon]

Blend together Is like trying to put together a puzzle, right? It's never simple because spiritual beliefs don't follow neat categories and clear timelines. However, we can build on what scholars have already learned About Santa Muerte's origins.

[Gabe]

Such as symbols and rituals, to uncover.

[Mark Gagnon]

What these hidden African influences are. So when different spiritual traditions combine, it's not some random accident.

[Gabe]

Real people make deliberate choices about which ideas and practices to blend together.

[Mark Gagnon]

What many scholars will call syncretism Is actually completely normal and happens Whenever people from different backgrounds Come together and need.

[Gabe]

To make sense of the world.

[Mark Gagnon]

In the case of Santa Muerta, we'll.

[Gabe]

Explore how the ancient process Created something.

[Mark Gagnon]

Entirely new, yet very familiar to the past. Historically, in Mexico, Aspects of blackness have been excluded from nationalist ideologies, despite the overwhelming presence of Africans in this country, known as New Spain. African slaves were brought to New Spain.

[Gabe]

As early as 1501, and during the first 200 years of its existence, it received an average of two thirds of.

[Mark Gagnon]

All African slaves Brought to Spanish America. The majority of these slaves were men, which eventually led to their propagation of.

[Gabe]

Mixed race children with indigenous women. The interracial relationship Between African descended people.

[Mark Gagnon]

And the native population Is multifaceted and complex, and it is additionally complicated by the caste system that is ever present in colonial New Spain. This systema de castas, the basically a.

[Gabe]

Social hierarchy based on racial classification, Oftentimes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Known as colorism, Continues to influence race relations Within Mexico today. Spanish slave owners were obligated to oversee.

[Gabe]

Their slaves, quote, religious training.

[Mark Gagnon]

As the new world's conversion Was one of the main concerns of the Spanish.

[Gabe]

Crown and the catholic church at the time.

[Mark Gagnon]

Slaves were required to be baptized before or immediately upon arriving.

[Gabe]

And while religion helped abolish enslavement of.

[Mark Gagnon]

The natives, it justified African enslavement by associating blackness with descent from the cursed.

[Gabe]

Canaanites of the bible, who were, quote.

[Mark Gagnon]

Condemned to perpetual bondage. This sets up a dichotomy of sanctioned versus unsanctioned domains with colonial society. So A sanctioned domain being the biased judicial system to which the populace was accountable, and the unsanctioned domain being occupied by witchcraft practiced by the natives and probably the newly arrived Africans as well.

[Gabe]

The practice of witchcraft in the unsanctioned.

[Mark Gagnon]

Domain offset the racial bias of the.

[Gabe]

Judiciary in the sanctioned domain by allowing.

[Mark Gagnon]

The bottom levels of the caste system to seek retribution as well as healing. This unsanctioned activity continues to this day as practitioners of African diasporan traditions, as well as Santa Muertis, and how they attempt to manipulate the world they live in through ritual activities. These ritual activities are perpetually reworked within each practitioner's cultural, economic, and their political.

[Gabe]

Environment to fit the changing needs.

[Mark Gagnon]

This aspect of individual agency at the.

[Gabe]

Hands of the historically oppressed is the most common thread linking the Santa Muerta.

[Mark Gagnon]

Cult to other syncretic religious traditions, especially those of the African diaspora. So what does Santa Muerta mean? I mean, it literally means holy death.

[Gabe]

Or saint death in Spanish.

[Mark Gagnon]

And most scholars agree that saint death is a better translation because her followers treat her just like other folk saints found throughout Mexico. A folk saint is different than an official Catholic saint.

[Gabe]

They're usually spirits of dead people who.

[Mark Gagnon]

Become famous after death for performing miracles or something else that would make them known through a specific place. What makes them special is that regular people, not the Catholic Church, is what.

[Gabe]

Is decided to make them a saint. It's also worth noting, within the Catholic.

[Mark Gagnon]

Church, saints are not worshiped. They're just sort of admired and revered because they're people that lived great lives on earth. Whereas these folk saints are in many ways worshiped throughout parts of Mexico, two other skeletal folk saints exist in Latin America. San La Muerta in Argentina and Ray Pascual in Guatemala. But unlike these male figures, most people don't believe Santa Muerta was ever a real person. Instead, she represents death itself, like death, as this almost, you know, iconic, powerful force.

[Gabe]

And the idea isn't new, necessarily. In Spain, death has long been personified.

[Mark Gagnon]

As a female skeleton called la parka.

[Gabe]

This tradition of honoring folk saints in.

[Mark Gagnon]

Latin America connects directly to both indigenous and African practices of worshiping ancestors after they die. Kevin Freeze, a researcher at Fort Leavenworth, described the Santa Muerta movement as ritual practices offered to a supernatural personification of death. And it's kind of wrapped up to look like a religious movement. Interestingly, this description could apply to, I mean, a ton of different African diasporan religions as well. So the main theory suggests that Santa Muerta comes from these African spiritual traditions. So, again, when slaves come over from Africa into Mexico, they bring with them many different ideas of, you know, animism or polytheism. And what with that, it begins to.

[Gabe]

Influence the surrounding areas.

[Mark Gagnon]

And like we mentioned before, Santeria in Cuba, Paolo Montemiombe from Brazil, voodoo from Haiti. All of these religions mixed African spiritual practices with Catholicism or Christianity. And it's exactly what we see with Santa Muerte. More specifically, Santa Muerta might be connected to specific African deities, such as Oya, which is the Santeria goddess of storms. Or Yawa, the Santeria goddess of the.

[Gabe]

Underworld, who delivers bodies to Oya.

[Mark Gagnon]

Or the centella and Doki, which is the Palo Monte cemetery ruler similar to Oya, Or Maman Brigitte, a voodoo spirit who's also connected to Oya. So all of these different entities or spirits or deities within these different disparate religions could be also connected to the Santa Muerta idea. Another theory traces Santa Muerta back to ancient Aztec gods. Two of them. Meklante Kudli and Mechlantecutal, the lord and.

[Gabe]

Lady of the dead.

[Mark Gagnon]

These skeletal deities ruled Miclan, known as the Aztec underworld. And when Spanish colonizers arrived, they banned this worship. During the Inquisition, the practice went underground and may have re emerged as Santa Muerta worship.

[Gabe]

In recent decades.

[Mark Gagnon]

Another theory proposed by Mexican scholars, including David Romo, considered the godfather of the Santa Muerta movement, believes she comes from.

[Gabe]

The medieval European images of the Grim Reaper.

[Mark Gagnon]

The during the 1300s, the Black Plague.

[Gabe]

Killed one third of Europe's population.

[Mark Gagnon]

This tragedy led to the first images.

[Gabe]

Of death as a skeletal figure.

[Mark Gagnon]

Spanish priests brought this imagery to the Americas and used it to teach both.

[Gabe]

Indigenous people and enslaved Africans about Christianity.

[Mark Gagnon]

When indigenous Americans and enslaved Africans encountered these Christian images of death, they interpreted.

[Gabe]

Them through their own spiritual beliefs.

[Mark Gagnon]

Some groups even saw the skeleton figure as a saint. Both indigenous and African peoples had to be clever about practicing their traditional religions Under Spanish rule. They often disguised their original deities as.

[Gabe]

Catholic saints so that they could continue.

[Mark Gagnon]

Their spiritual practices without persecution. This survival strategy created the mixed religious.

[Gabe]

Traditions we see today, including Santa Martha.

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[Mark Gagnon]

LinkedIn knows how when Spanish colonizers take control of Mexico the Catholic Church banned.

[Gabe]

The worship of skeleton saints during the.

[Mark Gagnon]

Inquisition and the practice was forced completely underground.

[Gabe]

But it doesn't disappear completely.

[Mark Gagnon]

The first official mention of Santa Muerta appears in inquisition documents from 1790, proving that people continued worshiping her in secret after that. Santa Muerta vanished from historical records for.

[Gabe]

Over 150 years, and she didn't reappear until the 1940s or 50s when four anthrop anthropologists mentioned her in their research.

[Mark Gagnon]

Interestingly, the Santa Muerta these researchers described.

[Gabe]

Was characterized by the color red and focused exclusively on love and romance.

[Mark Gagnon]

Her followers called her the Powerful lady of Love. This color symbolism, using specific colors for different types of requests, is a key feature of Santeria and Voodoo, suggesting African.

[Gabe]

Influence on her worship.

[Mark Gagnon]

Research from the 1960s and 70s confirmed that Santa Muerta worship had spread to every region of Mexico. What started as a hidden practice had quietly become a nationwide phenomena, and today Santa Muerta has exploded into the mainstream. She now has approximately 2 to 5 million followers, and that number continues to grow. You can find altars throughout Mexico and the United States through Mexico's Tapito neighborhoods.

[Gabe]

Remaining as the center of her worship. Even some Catholic churches have become less.

[Mark Gagnon]

Resistant to Santa Muerta worship, particularly in the white form. This is shocking because the official Catholic.

[Gabe]

Church has condemned her as satanic in the past.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's also worth noting that African derived religions Routinely adopt local saints and deities. So this kind of religious mixing, again, is pretty common in those traditions. And the mainstream media often tries to link Santa Muerta with drug trafficking. But the reality is much more complicated. People from all walks of life worship her, from housewives to business owners to students. And one reason for her popularity is her moral flexibility. Unlike many traditional Catholic saints, Santa Muerta doesn't judge her followers requests. Whether someone is asking for love or money or protection or even revenge, she's seen as willing to help without moral criticism. This nonjudgmental attitude mirrors a lot of African Caribbean religious traditions such as santeria and voodoo.

[Gabe]

And in these religions, the spirits called.

[Mark Gagnon]

The orshias or the ewa are viewed as approachable because they have almost human like characteristics. They enjoy earthly pleasures and, you know, understand human desires. And Santa Muerta has been thoroughly Mexicanized by her followers. She enjoys, you know, characteristically Mexican food, you know, tequila, cigars, chocolate. Her followers also constantly update her wardrobe with new styles and colors. And this customization isn't, again, just a Santa Muerta detail. In Cuban santeria, for example, the African orisha's clothing becomes, you know, very European looking over time. And followers continue to change and update.

[Gabe]

These wardrobes to this day.

[Mark Gagnon]

Santa Muerta's recent popularity explosion coincides with Mexico's political and economic problems. The country is facing, you know, escalating drug cartel violence and governmental inability to control crime, and natural disasters and epidemics and decreased tourism due to safety concerns. And all of these overwhelming difficulties mirror the hardships that many people throughout Mexico.

[Gabe]

Have faced in history.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, obviously a much worse example, but enslaved Africans, when they arrived in the new world, these displaced people turned their spiritual traditions and looked to them for survival.

[Gabe]

Modern Mexicans have also turned to Santa.

[Mark Gagnon]

Muerta for protection and guidance. Now, here's what makes this phenomena so interesting. Santa Marta is worshiped both by people.

[Gabe]

Involved in drug trafficking and by people seeking protection from those same criminals.

[Mark Gagnon]

And this contradiction actually explains the popularity, right? She's flexible and can serve anyone's needs without judgment. Santa Muerta worship doesn't have an official church or an organization, but that doesn't mean that it's disorganized.

[Gabe]

In fact, the rituals are very structured and detailed.

[Mark Gagnon]

Countless prayer books and guides have been written to help followers worship her correctly. And Santa Morta's devoted followers see her as a protector. But they're not seeking spiritual enlightenment like you might find in other religions. Instead, they want concrete favors and rewards, Things like protection from Enemies, help finding.

[Gabe]

Love, success in business, or healing from.

[Mark Gagnon]

Some type of illness. And here's a key rule. Everything you ask Santa Muerta comes at a price. The bigger request, the bigger your offering needs to be. It's like a spiritual transaction.

[Gabe]

You give her something valuable, and she will help you in return.

[Mark Gagnon]

So followers have developed specific ways to ask for help. They've developed colored candles.

[Gabe]

So different colored candles represent different types of requests.

[Mark Gagnon]

So, for example, red candles are love.

[Gabe]

White for protection, black for revenge.

[Mark Gagnon]

Or you can do material offerings. So people will bring, you know, specific.

[Gabe]

Gifts to the altar, depending on what they need.

[Mark Gagnon]

And the more valuable or meaningful the.

[Gabe]

Gift, the better the chances are that their wish will be granted.

[Mark Gagnon]

Some followers will even get tattoos of Santa Muerta as an offering of their.

[Gabe]

Own skin and blood.

[Mark Gagnon]

Others will, you know, wear jewelry of her image or carry small statues for protection. And here's where this gets complicated. So for many Santa Muerta followers, they also consider themselves Catholic, and they often use traditional Catholic prayers when they and talk. When they talk to her, they'll invoke the Trinity and even use rosaries around her statues. However, the official Catholic Church strongly condemns Santa Muerta worship, calling it satanic and saying that she has no place in Christianity. And despite this, some smaller churches in specific rural areas have even started using some of the iconography of Santa Muerta.

[Gabe]

Into some of the services.

[Mark Gagnon]

And this blending of Catholic and non Catholic is exactly what happened with Santeria.

[Gabe]

And voodoo in different parts of the world.

[Mark Gagnon]

So the altar setup for Santa Muerta is very specific. Okay, you have money, which is a cash offering to show the seriousness of the request, or fresh flowers. Any type is acceptable, but they must.

[Gabe]

Be fresh to show respect.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then you can do alcohol, which has to be served in the proper glassware, not just straight from the bottle.

[Gabe]

Cigars and cigarettes should be left burning at the altar.

[Mark Gagnon]

And this is a common purification ritual that involves blowing smoke over the statue. And this is also done in Santeria and in Voodoo. Fruit can be, you know, personalized by color to match the specific request we mentioned before.

[Gabe]

And then bread, water, and incense are some of the most essential offerings you can put onto the altar.

[Mark Gagnon]

Water deserves kind of a special mention because it's considered the most important offering.

[Gabe]

In some ways.

[Mark Gagnon]

It should come straight from the tap.

[Gabe]

Not bottled water, and should never be allowed to run dry.

[Mark Gagnon]

Keeping fresh water on the altar shows.

[Gabe]

An ongoing devotion and respect.

[Mark Gagnon]

And what makes Santa Marta worship unique.

[Gabe]

Is how personal and direct it feels to the followers.

[Mark Gagnon]

Followers aren't going through priests or church channels. They're building this, you know, direct and in many ways, personal relationship with what.

[Gabe]

They believe to be a powerful force who they hope will help them solve real world problems.

[Mark Gagnon]

And this hands on, practical approach to spirituality mirrors what we see in a ton of different African diasporan religions where people seek help from spirits or dead.

[Gabe]

Ancestors to get through different challenging, everyday needs.

[Mark Gagnon]

So the story of Santa Muerta reveals something profound about how people preserve and adapt their traditions under difficult circumstances. And what we see in her worship is not just, you know, modern Mexican religious movement, but also a living example of how indigenous African and European spiritual practices blend together over the centuries to create something completely new, yet deeply rooted in the past. So while the media might portray Santa Muerta worship as dangerous or criminal, the reality is just, you know, it's a little bit more complex than just that. Her followers come from many different walks.

[Gabe]

Of life and they turn to her for different needs.

[Mark Gagnon]

So whether or not you believe that Santa Muerta is a real force or can actually achieve things or is maybe satanic altogether, it's important to recognize that the worship of this deity or this being or this idea is real for millions of people across Mexico. And rather than, you know, dismissing it, I think it's worth, you know, trying to understand what is actually happening. Is this, you know, satanic? Part of me, you know, growing up Catholic, is like, I get freaked out by all sorts of different types of voodoo and stuff like that. You know, I don't. I don't mess with any of the dark arts. So to me, this one is just.

[Gabe]

A little too far.

[Mark Gagnon]

But who knows? If you practice Santa Muerta and you're in the comments, I would love to know what you think. Please drop a comment. Am I. Am I completely off base here? Am I being judgmental because of my, you know, repressed Catholic upbringing? Or is there something here that's more just like voodoo or, you know, Paloma, is this. Is there something. There's something that feels dark about this. You know, the fact that you have to offer something in order to get something back. I don't know, but maybe I'm missing it. Maybe my research here is. Is not completely accurate. So please inform me. Drop a comment. I will read all of them and I will see you guys next time.

[Gabe]

Thank you so much.

[Mark Gagnon]

Peace.

[Merch Voice]

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[Gabe]

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[Mark Gagnon]

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[Mark Gagnon]

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