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- [00:00]
Mark Yagnar
The miracles of the Quran. The Prophet Muhammad was just a regular guy. How is it possible that this guy somehow knew the nature of the cosmos and that there was some type of big bang? It is Allah who sends the winds and they stir the clouds and spread them in the sky, however he wills. And he makes them fragments. So you see the rain emerge from within them. The Quran makes an interesting distinction between the light of the sun and the light of the moon. He merges the two bodies of fresh and salt water, yet between them is a barrier they never cross. Allah creates you in the womb of your mothers, creation after creation within three veils of darkness. Scientists have said that these three veils of darkness correspond to the three anatomical layers that protect a developing fetus. I recognize that there are some Muslim scholars that say, hey, Quran is a book of guidance. Science is science. They can be separate. But many invite this type of analysis. So let's dive in. What's up, people? And welcome back to religion camp. That's right. My name is Mark Yagnar and welcome to my tent, where every single week we explore the most interesting, controversial, and fascinating topics from every religion from around the world, from all time. That's right. We got a lot of stuff to get through today. We're going back to Islam. That's right. Shout out to all my muzzy friends. All the muzzy boys joining in. And of course, shout out to everyone else. All the, all the non Muslims, my Christian, Hindus, Jews, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventist, Rastafari, everyone else. A lot of great feedback on the last episode. I appreciate everyone that tuned in and all the people that hit me up in our exploration of the Kaaba, something I didn't know much about. And from that episode, I actually got a lot of people reaching out to do an episode on this topic. The miracles of the Quran. This is something that is foreign to me. Growing up Catholic, we don't really fuse science in the Bible that much, you know, And I understand, like, the Bible and the Quran are not exactly, you know, direct parallels. I've heard it said that the Quran is almost more similar to, like the, the role of Jesus in Christianity, in a sense that it's, it's. It almost has a, a higher connection to the Muslim people. I don't know if that's true. That's what someone told me. But with that being said, we never really use science to, to look into the Bible. Oftentimes a lot of Christians will be like, hey, you can keep them separate. You know, like the Bible is a book of Faith and science is science. You don't necessarily need to put them together, but people do. Obviously you have young earth creationists that try to, you know, put forward, scient as it, as it exists within the Bible, things like the firmament, etc. But in Islam, you know, there's a long scientific tradition of, you know, Muslim scientists, allegedly they invented zero. That's what people say. Christos, you ever heard that before? I have. Which I don't know how you invent zero, but apparently the Muslims did it. Shout out to y'all, but apparently there's also a long history of people connecting, you know, the, the holy book of Islam, the Quran itself, with scientific study and actually using scientific scrutiny to go through the Quran and test the words of Allah himself with modern science and oftentimes with amazing, fascinating results. Again, this is all new to me. So before I begin, I also just want to mention, I recognize that there are some Muslim scholars that say, hey, you know, they almost take a Christian approach where they say we don't need to necessarily connect these two. You know, the Quran is a book of guidance. Science is science, they can be separate. But like I said before, many invite this type of analysis. So that's what we're going to be doing today. Let's dive in. Let's start with the Big Bang, shall we? The universe, it's pretty big. Massive, ever expanding stars, galaxies, planets, asteroids. A moon, allegedly. I don't know if we've ever been there, but it's pretty hard to wrap your head around the vastness of space. But it's interesting because in Muslim cosmology within the Quran there are a few different verses that mention the creation and the nature of the cosmos. So there's this verse from chapter 21, verse 30. I'm going to say chapter. I know oftentimes Muslims will use Surah, but for a non Muslim audience I feel like it's helpful to use chapter and verse. So chapter 21, verse 30. Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity. Then we separated them. A lot of people, including, you know, Muslim scholars, believe that this sounds like what scientists now know as the Big Bang. This idea that everything in our universe, universe started as a single incredibly dense point before expanding outward. The Big Bang theory wasn't developed until, you know, the 1920s when Georges Lemaitre, a Belgian Catholic, shout out to the Catholics. He was a priest and a physicist. He proposed this idea that the universe is expanding from this primeval atom is what it's known as. And two years later, Edwin Hubble discovered that galaxies are moving away from us and the further they are, the faster they move. Proving that the universe is ever expanding and constantly going all the way out until the eventual, you know, heat death of the universe. So this gave, you know, a strong support for this, this Belgian priest model, this idea of this big bang. And it led to the realization that, you know, the universe is constantly going and that everything must have come from a single point. What's interesting about this verse from the Quran again, the Quran is, is said according to Muslims to have been basically, you know, created and ordained by God. It is the word of God that has been transmuted into the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. And then written by scribes later. Now again, the Prophet Muhammad was just a regular guy living in the, in the region. You know, he, he was, you know, he was spoken to by God. And then that's where these, these thoughts came from. Right? He is the Prophet of Allah. How is it possible that this guy, you know, a smart person, sure, a merchant, somehow knew the nature of the cosmos and that there was some type of big bang? So again, this is looked at by Muslim scholars to say that things were one and then they were separated, bang, and exploded outward. There's another verse that talks about this cosmic expansion. This is chapter 51, verse 47. It says, and the heaven we constructed with strength and indeed we are expanding it. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's a point for the muzzies, for sure. The Arabic word used here is musi una, which comes directly from the root. That means to expand or to make wider. And again, this directly aligns with, you know, modern science's current understanding that the universe is constantly expanding. Something that Hubble didn't confirm until 1929, just 1300 years after the Quran was revealed to the Prophet. It's pretty interesting. When these verses were revealed, the common belief was that the universe at the time was static, it was eternal. A lot of Greek philosophers would talk about the eternality of the universe, that it has always existed, it will always exist. Most ancient cosmological models viewed the heavens as these fixed, unchanging spheres. Even Einstein himself initially added a cosmological constant to his equation to maintain a static universe and to until it was observed that it was expanding yet again. In the Quran, it describes this expanding creation that came from one single point. Pretty interesting. I think that's one nothing for the Muslims. What do you think, Christos? They got us by 1300 years. I mean, they're on the scoreboard for sure. I like that. Shout out to y'all. Now here's another one. When it comes to space, the movement of the celestial bodies and okay, I just want to also just put a little pin here. I know there's going to be a lot of people listening to this, specifically non Muslims that will be discrediting, that will be having counterpoint skepticism. I think that's completely reasonable. I think there's probably room for skepticism and room for healthy, you know, religious debate. I don't want to start a holy war in the comments. All right, let's keep it civil. But that's not the purpose of this show. This show, again, is to explore the, you know, what's interesting and why so many people from all these different religions find this religion, you know, to be the one true faith. Whether it's, you know, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, et cetera. So I don't want to scrutinize and get lost in the weeds again. I'm not here to debate, okay? I'm just here to open mindedly and in good faith explore different religions. Let's do another one, shall we? What's up, camp family? What's up, campers? Two big announcements. Don't skip this. Two massive announcements. The merch store is back open. That's right. Camp goods is back in stock. We got these hats that I'm wearing right now. I've been rocking them both on here on flagrant. I've been wearing them on stage. We got a bunch more hats like the ones behind me. You can see them all here on the website. We also got some shirts. Oh, man. What is this one right here? Come on now. Come on now. Camp gear for all terrain. We got some other ones. What is this one right here? Oh, this one's beautiful. This one might be one of my favorites. The colors. The colors are absolutely crazy. This is Camp Gagnon vintage wisdom across the globe. Come on now. We got all that and more on the store. We also got these sick mugs right here. You might have seen me maybe sipping from one of these in some of the recent episodes. These are sick. They are all available on the website campgoods Co. Check it out. Link is in the description. And by supporting the merchandise, you are obviously supporting the show. You're supporting me and you're obviously, you know, supporting all the amazing people that make the show happen, like Christos, who is currently throwing me T shirts from underneath this desk here. So please check that out. Additionally, I'm on the road. That's right. I'm doing my one hour of stand up comedy. Some of some of the greatest jokes ever written. Okay, that's not true, but they are my jokes and I wrote them. I'll be in Portland, Maine on April 27 and that one I'm doing with Joey Avery. You know Joey Avery, a friend of the show. He sat across from me many times and I'm explaining some things to him and he might be my dumb friend, but he is a brilliant stand up comedian and we will be there in Portland, Maine. If you are in these areas, please come out. And we're adding a ton of dates all through the summer, so check out my website, themarkgagnon.com for all tour dates and updated info. Come hang out with me. I talk to every single person after the show. If you want to kick it with me, maybe have a drink, I'll be there and I will see you guys on the road. Let's get back to the show. Here is a bullet. Imagine this. You're 30ft underground, digging through frozen earth with spoons and mess hall plates. Nazi guards patrol overhead. One wrong move, one loose pebble, and it's over. But on this night in 1944, 76 Allied prisoners would attempt the impossible, tunneling their way to freedom in the largest prisoner of war escape of World War II. And centuries earlier, in a cold stone chamber, a teenage girl in armor stood before her accusers. Her crime Leading armies, speaking to angels, and daring to challenge the most powerful men in Europe. Joan of Arc's trial would become one of history's most infamous moments. These are just two stories from Today in History, the newsletter that brings you the most fascinating events from the past, delivered fresh to your inbox. From epic wars to religious rebellions, ancient mysteries to modern marvels, don't miss another piece of history. Scan the QR code now or click the link in the description to sign up for Today in History. This comes from chapter 21, verse 33. It states, and it is he who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon. He obviously being Allah, all in an orbit are swimming. The Arabic word for swimming is Yaspohan, which conveys smooth, measured movement through space. That's another pretty good one. This description again countered the views of the time. Many ancient civilizations believed that the bodies were, you know, potentially carried by angels or gods or fixed in some type of like, crystal sphere or something. The, the Ptolemaic dynasty model of Earth is something we're probably all, you know, familiar with. This is like the idea of the geocentric model. Geocentrism, meaning that the Earth is the center of the universe and all things orbit around it, including the sun. And this theory was dominant until the 16th century. And then Earth was placed, you know, Earth was placed at the center of the planets. And it wasn't until Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler all kind of, you know, over time challenged the idea and then ushered in this heliocentric model. Some people still hold on to the geocentric model. My mother is still sort of like a, you know, like a casual geocentrist. She'll tell me, she'll be like, hey, look, I'm pretty sure NASA uses geocentric models for the universe. Look, I don't believe this. This is what she says. This is what we debate about at 3 in the morning when I go back to Florida. But the Quran simple description of celestial bodies moving in orbits is, you know, pretty well aligned with what we now know about the planets and celestial motion. That one's pretty good. I like that one. All right, let's do another one, shall we? The Quran makes an interesting distinction between the light of the sun and the light of the moon. So now, you know, in modern times, we all know this, right, that the moon doesn't create light, that it is a reflection of the sun's light, that it doesn't actually emanate any type of light in and of itself. But in the Quran, chapter 10, verse 5, in the Sirah Yunus, it says, it is he who made the sun a shining light and the moon a derived light and determined for it phases. The Arabic words used here are a little different. Duya means light shining for the sun, and nur means light reflected for the moon. Now that's pretty interesting because again, this is scientifically accurate. The sun generates its own light through, you know, the process of, like nuclear fusion. And while the moon merely just reflects the light. Again, this is obvious to us now, but many ancient cultures believed that the moon had its own light. Like the Greeks, for example, referred to the moon as a lesser light. And they didn't clearly understand that it was merely reflecting the sun. But yet the Quran's precision again distinguished between these two, you know, celestial light sources, which, again, that's. That one's a pretty good one. I don't know what people at the time knew. Maybe there was some people that thought like, oh, it is reflecting. I don't know. That's just in the Quran. And this is what Muslim scholars point out. Another one is the shape of the Earth. Again, there's been all sorts of controversy about is it round? Is it, you know, oblong? Is it like, you know, is it flat? A lot of people believe that I'm not. I think that's. I think that's a psyop. I think flat earth is just a way to discredit people that, you know, spend too much time on Reddit or something. That's what I think, but that's not what the Quran thinks. In the Quran, there's a. There's a few verses that describe the earth's shape. So for example, in Surah an Naziyat, chapter 79, verse 30, it says, and after that he spread the earth. And the earth here is using the word tahaha. And this word means it comes from the word.
- [15:01]
Christos
This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Everyone has a reason to change. Growing old, heartbreak, a fresh start. Whatever it may be, Peloton is here to get you through life's biggest moments. With instructors that speak your language and workouts that move to your own rhythm, Pelotons tread in all accidents. Membership help you set your targets, track your progress and get stronger, making your fitness goals a reality. Find your push, find your power. Peloton. Visit1peloton.com McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice.
- [15:35]
Mark Yagnar
Of a Big Mac or 10 piece.
- [15:36]
Christos
McNuggets with spicy nether flame sauce.
- [15:39]
Mark Yagnar
Now available with a Minecraft movie meal at participating McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only theaters. Duhuia, which literally refers to an ostrich egg. And what shape is an ostrich egg? Let's get a picture. It's oval, which is more or less how we know now that the earth is shaped. Not a perfect sphere, but a, like a more oval spheroid that's slightly flattened at the poles due to, you know, the rotation of the Earth. It's pretty interesting. I don't, again, I don't know what the common consensus at the time, but for a guy living in, you know, the Middle east in the 7th century, it's pretty interesting that he was able to, you know, to somehow know all of these things, perhaps divinely inspired. Again, that is for you to decide. That's pretty good. As far as Muslim cosmology goes. You got, you know, universe coming from a single source, expanding universe, celestial bodies, you know, moving around each other, the sun making its own light while the moon reflects, and then, you know, the shape of the earth. That's pretty good. It seems like they, they nailed they nailed a couple of those. What I find fascinating about this is that, yeah, it's like all the details that are kind of working together. I don't, I don't know if there's anything in the, in the Bible that, that makes these kinds of claims. I'd have to, I'd have to double check my biblical history here. But again, we're not talking about the Bible, okay? We're talking about the Quran. But again, we got to imagine this is a time before, like, no, you know, there's no telescope. Sure that there was some, you know, there was ancient mapping techniques where they could measure distance and align it with the stars and do some calculations, things like that. But again, I don't know what the, what the common consensus at the time was, but this is what the Muslim scholars point out. And it's not tossing out these like vague things. It's saying very, you know, very clearly, right? It's like, hey, sun's making light, the moon's reflecting it pretty good for the seventh century. I will say we can add a couple little more sprinkles to the cosmic knowledge here, okay? As found in the Quran, in the Surah Yasin, chapters 36, verse 38, it states that the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the all knowing. The Arabic word used here for runs is tajri, which implies continuous movement towards a final destination. Another verse, the Surah Rahman, chapter 55, verse 37, adds, when the sky is torn apart and becomes rosy like paint. Now again, modern scientists will say that this is a description similar to the red giant phase that our sun will enter at the end of the sun's life. Eventually the sun will, you know, dissipate. All the energy will be gone. And in that time it will enter into this red giant phase, which sounds like, you know, rosy paint. Astronomers now understand, you know, the sun, like all stars, follows a predictable life cycle, you know, based on its mass and composition. And the sun is currently in its main sequence phase. It's, you know, fusing hydrogen and, you know, into helium and all that science stuff. But in about 5 billion years, it will, you know, exhaust the hydrogen that exists and it will, you know, go into a heat death. And this expansion phase matches the Quranic description of the sky, of the sky being, you know, rosy. That one's pretty good. I like that. Now what do we make of this? I guess, you know, it's possible that there were lucky guesses. That's, that's, that's up there. It's possible that they had some type of scientific knowledge. You know, they were able to like, do some calculations that some people knew this. Maybe it got lost, maybe it's contested. And you know, some. Sure, some people will say like, ah, nah, people had, you know, the ability to know this stuff. And there were people around, you know, at the time that knew this and it was borrowed or it was divinely inspired. Who's to say? You know, that is, that is for you, the viewer to decide. But it doesn't just end at cosmology. We also got earth sciences and geology. That's right. Again, I asked some of my Muslim friends, I was like, yo, send me the, send me the things you find interesting. Here's one of them that got sent to me by a friend of mine. When it comes to geology and the way that the earth actually exists, there's a specific verse in Sarah an Naba, chapter 78, verses 6 and 7. The Quran describes mountains in a specific way. It says, have we not made the earth as a bed and the mountains as pegs? The Arabic word here for pegs is atad, which literally means stakes or pegs, like the ones you'd use to like, secure a tent. Which is a, you know, an interesting metaphorical way to describe mountains. Right. But here's the interesting thing. In modern geology, it has been shown that mountains actually do have deep roots that extend far below the surface that literally anchor the mountains into the earth's crust. And these roots can go sometimes 10 to even 15 times their height directly into the ground. Something I didn't know, I found that fascinating. And the geological understanding didn't emerge until the 20th century with the development of modern geophysics. The theory of isostasi explains how mountains are balanced by these deep roots. Just like how an iceberg has most of the mass of it underwater. You see just a part of the top, but then the majority is actually below the surface. Mountains are in a similar way more below the surface than actually what protrudes on top. And the concept that mountains have these deep roots became accepted after, you know, seismic imaging techniques in, you know, the mid 20th century that allowed scientists to actually map these routes. But the Quran used this peg metaphor like, you know, how a tent would be pegged into the ground 1400 years ago. Again, that's pretty good. But it doesn't just stop there. Now we have tectonic plate theory. So Sira al abinyal verse chapter 21, verse 31 states this. And we have placed on the earth firm mountains, lest it should shake with them. Again, this is describing the geological function of the mountains that wasn't understood until recently. So modern tectonic plate theory, something scientists, you know, have only really started to agree upon in, like, the 60s, shows that mountains form where tectonic plates meet, and they actually help keep those shaky areas more stable. So when two continental plates crash into each other, the pressure pushes the mountain range up, and they act as stabilizers along the fault lines. A solid example of this is like the Himalayas that are formed, you know, in between the Indian and the, you know, Eurasian tectonic plates where they collide and they actually help keep the area more balanced. Again, interesting the idea that the mountains actually help, you know, balance the, you know, seismic activity in tectonic regions, which, again, seems like the Quran kind of got that one right. Again, as a Catholic, I'm a little reluctant. I'm like, all right, that's. They got it. They got one there that's pretty good. Imagine this. You're 30ft underground, digging through frozen earth with spoons and mess hall plates. Nazi guards patrol overhead. One wrong move, one loose pebble, and it's over. But on this night in 1944, 76 Allied prisoners would attempt the impossible, tunneling their way to freedom in the largest prisoner of war escape of World War II. And centuries earlier, in a cold stone chamber, a teenage girl in armor stood before her accusers. Her crime. Leading armies, speaking to angels, and daring to challenge the most powerful men in Europe. Joan of York's trial would become one of history's most infamous moments. These are just two stories from Today in History, the newsletter that brings you the most fascinating events from the past, delivered fresh to your inbox. From epic wars to religious rebellions, ancient mysteries to modern marvels, don't miss another piece of history. Scan the QR code now or click the link in the description to sign up for today in History. Moving on to another Earth science topic, the water cycle. So in the Quran, there are various stages of the water cycle that are, you know, brought up in multiple different verses. So, for example, In Surah AR R 30 48, it says, it is Allah who sends the winds, and they stir the clouds and spread them in the sky. However he wills, and he makes them fragments. So you see the rain emerge from within them. This seems like it, you know, pretty accurately describes how winds transport water vapor, which condenses to form clouds and then eventually rain. Another verse, Sarah al Raf, chapter 7, verse 57. It's another verse that explains how the winds bring in rain and it revives dead lands and it grows fruit and then ties that process to how God can bring the dead back to life. Kind of a poetic way to connect nature to, you know, something a bit more mystical. It says, and it is he who sends the winds and the good news before his mercy. When they carry heavy rain clouds, we drive them to lifeless land. Then we send down rain with it, bring all kinds of fruit. Just like that, we will bring the dead back to life. Maybe this will make you reflect. I like how the verse ends like that. Yeah, this is going to make you think, all right, how about. This is like a little riddle. How about you guys figure this out, reflect on that. And then to add to it, there's another verse that states, and we have sent down the rain from the sky in a measured amount and settled it on earth, and indeed we are able to take it away. This refers to how rainwater is stored in the ground. Again, another key component of the water cycle. And a complete scientific understanding of this water cycle didn't emerge until the 7th century or 17th century, thanks to people like Pierre Peralt and Edmund Haley. Before that, Aristotle's theory on water circulation dominated a lot of scientific thought. He believed that rainfall alone couldn't account for the river flow and that there must be, you know, some type of, like, underground channel or like an ocean inside of the earth that then would, you know, lead rivers around the world. A theory that persisted, you know, in some ways into the Renaissance. There's actually another verse in the Quran that talks about the waves and how waves work. So in surah Anur, chapter 21, verse 40, and it says this, or like the darkness in a deep sea, it is covered by waves above which are waves, above which are clouds, darkness, some above others. When one puts out his hand, he can hardly see it. The verse describes something that humans would have a hard time observing directly in the seventh century. The layered darkness of the deep ocean and the phenomena of these underwater waves. Today we understand that light penetration and ocean creates distinct layers of darkness. The longest wavelengths, you know, red on, like, the Roy G biv spectrum, they disappear first and then orange, then yellow, green, etc. And it kind of goes into, you know, this, this verse where it says darkness, some above others. Again, talking about the, you know, the spectrum of light as it dissipates, the farther down you go. Even more remarkable is this mention of waves above waves. We typically think of waves as, you know, just on the ocean surface. But oceanographers have now discovered that internal waves occur between water layers of different densities below the surface. These subsurface waves can be massive, sometimes hundreds of feet high and miles long, but remain completely invisible from the surface. They exist deep, deep in the depths of the ocean. Many of them were, you know, first reported in, like, the 1800s, 1893, to be exact, by a Norwegian explorer, Friedhof Nansen, who experienced these strong resistance with his ships. And they were, you know, in seemingly calm waters that he, you know, described as dead water. And these internal waves weren't officially discovered until the 20th century, when oceanographers made special tools to detect the changes in water density. Again, that one's. That one's pretty good. The waves, below the waves. Like, is it possible? It's just a metaphor. Sure. But again, I don't know what the nature of, you know, Arabic or Middle Eastern seafaring was at the time. I don't know if they would have been able to detect something like that. Maybe a deep net or something. I don't know. I don't even know how deep people were swimming back then. Would you have gone so deep that you couldn't see anything? I feel like without modern, you know, scuba diving equipment, it'd be pretty hard to do that. That's a pretty good one. I don't know. I like the cosmology one. I feel like, you know, it kind of moved me a little more. But that one's still pretty good. I like that one. There's another one also on the oceanic barrier. So there's a verse, Sarah al Fukan, chapter 25, verse 53, and it states, he is the one who merges the two bodies of water, one fresh and palatable and the other salty and bitter, placing between them a barrier they cannot cross. Another similar description comes in a later verse. It says, he merges the two bodies of fresh and salt water, yet between them is a barrier they never cross. These verses describe something that seems kind of counterintuitive, right? Like, how can two bodies of water meet but not fully mix? Well, if you don't know, at the mouths of rivers where fresh water meets the salty ocean, there's a boundary zone where the two waters don't immediately mix because of the differences in, you know, temperature and density, salinity, all that stuff, and it creates a visible boundary where they meet. Croesus. Could you actually Google, like, brackish water or maybe like, more specifically these kinds of phenomena, and they can be observed in places like the Atlantic, the Arctic Ocean. And one of the most famous examples is in the Amazon, where the Amazon river meets the Atlantic Ocean. And you can see the different colors of water flowing side by side for miles before they gradually mix over time. Another phenomena of a similar style occurs at the Strait of Gibraltar where the Mediterranean, the Atlantic meet. They have different salinities. And French oceanographer, actually Jacques Cousteau described his astonishment when exploring the water barriers at the Strait of Gibraltar, noting how the Mediterranean and the Atlantic waters maintained their distinct properties and boundaries for quite some time. This scientific observation came hundreds of years after the Quran described the phenomena. What's interesting about all these geological and ocean related explorations of the Quran is how, you know, it seems like they're, they're pretty, you know, on, on the point. Can we go to. Yeah, go to the images you can see actually. Yeah, like that one right there. You can see these, these points. And I'm curious if like, you know, like, you know, Muslim scientists in the region would have even known about this. Like, I don't even know. I have no idea where that is. But I'm curious like, if, if they would have seen it because obviously if you observe it, you can see it, but I don't know if they would have even had the chance to observe it. Maybe like some traveler far away. I don't know. That's another pretty good one. But again, what's interesting about all of these is like, you know, the earth's crust, all this stuff would have been, you know, if you asked me, you know, I had no access to modern technology or Google or ChatGPT or any of that stuff, I feel like my, my guesses would have been farther off, you know, so I, These are, these are pretty good. I'm, again as a Catholic, I'm, you know, I find these to be pretty, pretty solid. What do you think, Christos? I mean, you think they're, you think they're on something here? You think you have a bad. As a Catholic, I'm a ethnocentric Greek. Yeah. I mean, the Greeks, I mean, you guys screwed all that stuff up. Yeah, guys weren't even close. Apparently way back in the day. I mean, who knows when is the last time there's like a Greek scientist or philosopher that was like really on it a few thousand years. Aristotle, someone. There's gotta be someone in like the 1900s that like went to college. Now we're too busy taking coffee and cigarette bricks. Yeah, that's a good point. Cigarettes really ruined so many, so many Greek innovations. Yep. But the coffee is good. Those, those Greek frappuccinos with like little foam on the top. Yeah. Yeah, those go crazy. All right, we got a couple other ones. Shall we? Human embryonic development. This one is. This one is interesting. This was pointed out to me by a friend on Instagram. And yeah, again, I'd never heard of this. I never read any of this. I didn't grow up reading the Quran. But it says here in Surah al Abinyan. I hope I'm pronouncing these correctly. Sorry if I'm missing them up. Chapter 21, verse 30, it says, have those who disbelieve not considered that the heavens and earth were joined, were a joined entity, and we separated them and made from water every living thing. Then will they not believe so again, this is related to the verse we read earlier, but it has that, you know, additional verse at the end. We separated them and made from water every living thing. So we talked about this cosmic separation. But water making up every living thing is interesting. There's actually other verses that state, you know, that, you know, water is the life force of all things that are living. It's pretty, pretty solid as we know now. You know, biology has told us that water makes up about, you know, somewhere between like, you know, 60 to 75% of the human body and as much as 90% of some plants and simple organisms. Basically every known form of life, even like the tiniest little bacteria to like big mammals, requires water to survive. There's basically no exceptions to this rule of any, any, anything living. I mean, can you Google that? Like, are there like, I don't know of any, anything that can live without water, like any living thing that can live without water? I'd be so curious. So according to a Google search, while all known life on Earth requires water, some can survive extended periods of time without it. You know, there are these water bears that are able to survive for a long time without water in a dehydrated state, but at a certain point, they all require water to live. So there you go, the water. What is a water bear? Can we get a picture of that? They can live decades without water. I mean, that's crazy, but it makes it interesting, right? Like the, you know, DNA, like the double helix that Watson and Crick pointed out mean, you know, requires water molecules. You know, everything's like our natural body function. Oh, that's a water bear, apparently. Whoa. That thing, I mean, I mean, thank goodness those things aren't big. That is a crazy looking thing. It's like a microorganism. I think so, bro. How wild is that that we're probably drinking those things? All the time. Where are they? What are they doing all day? These water bears. That is a wild looking thing. We need to do a whole episode on water bears. New topic. We're pivoting hard because these water bears just blew my whole mind. That is crazy. It's a phylum of an eight legged segmented micro animal. A micro animal? What the heck? They were discovered in the 1700s. I mean that must have blown his mind. 1773, America didn't even exist and he's reading about micro bears. No one believes him for sure. He's like, dude, there's bears in the water. To be like out of your mind. But yeah, there you go. That's pretty interesting. The all living things require water and they knew it. I guess that's a bold statement. If I was living in the seventh century, I don't think I would have been like every living thing because I would be like, maybe rocks are living, I don't know. But they, he, they put it out there. Maybe divinely inspired by Allah. Maybe it was a, you know, a guess. It's a tough guess to make, but they nailed it. What about human development? Embryology is another, is another point that people, you know, Muslim scholars will point out. It says here in the Quran, surah al muminim mu minun. I think that's how you say it. Chapter 21, verses 12 to 14. And certainly we created man from an extract of clay. I believe that as a, as a Catholic, that's in the Bible, right? Shout out. Okay, so I'm on board. Then we placed him as a drop of sperm in safe lodging. I like that. Then we made the sperm into a clinging clot and we made the clot into a lump of flesh, and we made out of that lump bones, and we clothed the bones with flesh and we developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators. I mean, that's a pretty detailed process of, you know, like embryological development of a human. So as you know, as we understand this idea of the drop of sperm in Arabic, this is the nutfa, which literally means the liquid that produces life. And this accurately identifies conception beginning with the male sperm. And while this might seem obvious now, many ancient cultures didn't really understand what exactly that meant. You know, they didn't understand that, you know, they believed in potentially spontaneous generation or even this idea that tiny fully formed humans existed inside sperm cells. And then they grew into full sized humans. And then the next stage, you have this clot, you know, in Arabic is known as alaqa and this is a term that's interesting because there's three distinct meanings, all of which accurately describe the embryo in the stages of development from like 7 to 24 days. One of the meanings is leech. Like under a microscope, the early embryo bears a striking resemblance to a leech. With its curved shape and bulging top proportion. It also means a suspended thing. The embryo attached to the uterine wall and hangs suspended within the womb. And of course, the blood clot that.
- [35:45]
Christos
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We're probably more familiar with the embryo is surrounded by maternal blood as implantation occurs, and the embryo itself contains pooled blood. So Dr. Keith Moore, this prominent embryologist who authored the textbook the Developing Human, was particularly struck by this terminology. He noted that the word alaka provides an apt description of the embryo's appearance and behavior during the stage in ways that would have been very difficult to know prior to microscopic examination. So again, that's a doctor, that's Keith Moore. Talk to him about it. I don't know. After this. The Quran describes this lump of flesh, the Arabic word, as mudgah, which specifically refers to something that appears to have been chewed, with tooth marks still visible. Remarkably, days 24 to 28, the embryo develops somite. These blocks of tissue basically form along the back of the embryo that give it sort of, you know, they eventually become like the vertebrae and the muscles, and they kind of create this pattern of ridges and depressions that kind of almost look like a tooth mark or a chewed substance. And then you have this idea of, you know, the, the lump of bones. Right. So there's this, this idea of ossification that occurs after. And basically the skeletal system forms from that. And then after the skeletal system you have the muscles that literally clothe the bones as they develop and attach to the skeletal structure. To add on to that, there is another verse, Surah az Zumar, chapter 39, verse 6, which mentions, Allah creates you in the womb of your mothers creation after creation within three veils of darkness. Now, some scholars and scientists have said that these three veils of darkness correspond to the three anatomical layers that protect a developing fetus. You have the abdominal wall, which is the mother's, you know, stretched stomach layer that you can actually see and touch. And then you have the uterine wall, which is the strong, you know, muscular wall of the womb that, you know, expands as the baby grows. And then you have the amniochloronic membrane, a special fluid filled sac made of the two connecting membranes that surround and cushions the developing baby. So that's pretty good. The three developing walls of darkness that's described in the Quran apparently still connects to embryology as we know it. Now. Now, I mean that's, that's solid. What about this one? If that's not, if that's not blowing your mind, how about this? Sera as Sajda, chapter 32, verse 9. It mentions, then he fashioned him and breathed into him of his spirit and appointed for you hearing, sight and hearts. Now Muslim scholars will point out the order hearing, then sight, then hearts, or potentially understanding. Now, modern embryology confirms that the auditory system begins developing before the visual system. That's pretty interesting. The auditory apparatus begins forming in the third week and becomes functional by the fourth month. Meanwhile, the eye starts developing in the fourth week, but its structures aren't fully formed until much later. And then the brain regions responsible for understanding develop even after that. Once again, this is all, you know, pretty interesting if, you know, if some, if a kid came to you and he was like 12 years old, he's like, this is what I think you'd be like, whoa, that's pretty fascinating. Now of course, you know, Muhammad wasn't a kid, but he was just a man that lived 1400 years ago and wrote all this down and had a pretty decent understanding of embrology. Again, this guy, Dr. Keith Moore, he was so impressed by these Quranic descriptions. I'm assuming Keith Moore is not, you know, Muslim. Right? The idea of, I don't think Keith Moore is a very Arabic name, but he incorporated them into his embrology textbooks and after studying these verses, he said it's clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. I wonder if he converted. That'd be interesting. I mean, this guy's pretty white, but Muslims can be white. I guess that's not, you know, that's not the obvious description if I was going to think. But yeah, apparently Keith Moore has. I'm curious, can you, can you find out if he converted? Sure. That's really interesting. Critics will often argue that the modern, you know, wait, is there. I'm not sure if he converted. We'll figure that out later. So I should point out that some critics will argue that these modern interpretations of the Quran retroactively impose scientific meanings onto the ancient texts. You know, like the original Arabic terms meaning, you know, like a leech, like form or the chewed lump carry these specific vivid meanings that align with what we now can observe under a microscope. Furthermore, the sequence of development stages described in the Quran follows a scientific, accurate timeline, unlike many of the other ancient texts that, you know, present them in maybe, you know, jumbled orders of growth. Some critics have often pointed out that, you know, it's possible that they borrowed this idea from the Greeks and that, you know, the Greeks maybe had it correct. But it's interesting to point out that Galen and Hippocrates, they had theories that had many significant errors about embryonic development that are not present in the Quranic description. The developmental stages, the sequencing, the three protective layers, things like that are absent from their description. But yet the Quran has it right. Again, interesting. I don't know what to make of it all, but it's possible that I'm trying to think, if I was like a skeptic, if I was like, you know, if I really want to scrutinize, I'm like, maybe they were able to see like, you know, development over, through like miscarriage or something. They were able to like deduce it or something like that. But I mean, even if you're just looking at it from a scientific lens, it's pretty solid. And then if you're believing there's a divine lens, I mean, you know, then you're, then you're on, then you're on your way, I guess. But I don't know, I find that very, very interesting. Again, the purpose of this is just to explore different religions and why, you know, I think it's easy for, for Christians or people, you know, that grew up outside of the Muslim faith or any faith to look at it and go like, ah, why do they believe all that stuff? Like, oh, why? Why do Hindus believe that? Why. Why do, you know, Muslims believe that? But if you're raised, you know, reading the Quran and reading these verses, getting taught this all the time, of course you're going to be like, dude, this is. They're nailing it. So I just think that's an important thing for, you know, all people to have a general awareness of that. You know, there's, you know, the reason why people believe their faith and they believe it so devoutly is oftentimes because there's a good reason, right? Like, they grew up with these things and they're taught these things, and from a young age, they're studying these verses and these scriptures and they're able to, you know, deduce a lot. And I think Christians do that all the time. Like, you know, kids that I went to school with at, you know, Presbyterian School, they were constantly in their Bible being like, look at this. This connects to this. This points to this. And I think all faiths do the same thing. And I think it's, you know, hubristic to think that they don't have good reason as well. Right. I think, you know, if I was born into a Muslim family, you know, somewhere in Saudi Arabia, I'm sure that would be, you know, probably a devout Muslim. I think that's just how the nature of things go. So there you go. Those are some of the scientific claims that are, I guess, proven validated in the Quran. I find that fascinating. Again, I never grew up reading the Quran. I didn't really have, like, many Muslim friends until, like, we got to, like, high school, college age. And even then we didn't really talk too much about theology. But this has been a fun exploration about. Yeah, I'm always fascinated by ancient texts and, like, how they possess some type of, you know, information in them that, yeah, seems to be divine or in some way, you know, unexplainable. And I was actually even just looking just like on a quick Google search, apparently the Bible's got a couple. Thank goodness, almost converted there. For a second. I started to get on edge. But, yeah, in the Bible, apparently, you know, there's mentions of, like, the water cycle. There's references to the Earth being spherical, allegedly, you know, the earth is suspended and nothing beneath it. So that's just the Bible. And then apparently in Hinduism, there's a long lineage of Hindu cosmology with, you know, deep, you know, knowledge and understanding about how the cosmos work and how space and time are connected in ways that again, weren't proven till much later. So I say all that to say that, you know, these people back in the day, maybe they weren't. I think there's an ability to look back and like, ah, 2000 years ago, you know, 1400 years ago, these people were dumb. They didn't know anything. They knew a lot more than maybe we give them credit for. And whether that's through, you know, scientific means, you know, you know, using induction and reasoning or maybe it's divine. But I guess that is for, for you all to decide. I really enjoyed this topic. I enjoy learning about all different types of religions and diving into the Quran. Especially in the west, we get so much media about Islam. It's fun to actually go through it in kind of like an open minded way, you know, going and kind of just doing my own homework on it. So maybe I'll do a part two. There's many more. I only touched on a couple of these scientific claims. There's many, many more in the Quran. So maybe if you guys enjoyed this episode, I'd love to do a part two. To my Muslim friends, Salam. I hope you enjoyed. To my non Muslim friends, I hope you learned something and yeah, maybe have a little bit more of appreciation for a religion that, you know, over a billion people on the planet, you know, practice and worship too. So anyway, Christos, you learned something. Yeah. And we didn't get to a lot of it. Yeah, maybe we could do a little part two. Yeah, we might have to run it back, but I appreciate y'all, thank you so much. Like I said, every week, every Sunday, we're dropping a religion camp right here from the tent. I'd be so grateful if you guys join me. Once again, if you don't mind hitting the subscribe button, you know, subscribe on Spotify or wherever you're listening to this and we'll be back next week. Peace be with you. If you've made it to the end of this episode, you are clearly someone who understands that beneath every historical event lies a deeper truth waiting to be uncovered. You're the type of person who knows that real history is more fascinating than any fiction. And we deeply appreciate that about you. I'll be honest, that's exactly why I personally invite you to sign up for Today in History, our free newsletter that goes beyond the surface of historical events. We dive into the stories that textbooks never told you, the secrets that challenge the course of nations, and the forgotten tales that deserve to be remembered. Let's continue this journey of discovery together. 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