The Boy And The Jinn | Full Story

Summary

Podcast Summary: Camp Gagnon – "The Boy And The Jinn | Full Story"

Episode Information:

• Title: Camp Gagnon
• Host: Mark Gagnon
• Episode: The Boy And The Jinn | Full Story
• Release Date: May 4, 2025

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Introduction to Jinns

In this compelling episode, host Mark Gagnon delves deep into the enigmatic world of jinns, as depicted in Islamic theology and folklore. He begins by distinguishing jinns from mere folklore creatures, emphasizing their explicit mention in the Quran and their existence as a distinct spiritual species cohabiting with humans on Earth.

Key Quote:

"Jinns aren't just some ancient folklore, campfire story thing. They're explicitly mentioned in Islam's holiest text, the Quran."
— Mark Gagnon [00:00]

Understanding Jinns: Nature and Manifestation

Mark elaborates on the origins and nature of jinns, explaining that they are beings created from a smokeless fire, paralleling humans created from clay and angels from light. Unlike angels, jinns possess free will, allowing them to choose between good and evil, making them morally accountable in the afterlife.

Key Quote:

"The word jinn itself comes from Arabic, and its literal meaning is to hide or conceal, which makes a lot of sense because the fundamental nature of these beings is that they're hidden from human sight or they kind of warp or shapeshift."
— Mark Gagnon [02:04]

Types of Jinns

Mark categorizes various types of jinns, drawing from both Islamic texts and folklore:

1. Marid: Described as the strongest or largest jinns, often associated with water and known for their rebellious nature.
2. Ifrit: Fiery jinns recognized for their intelligence and strength, typically troublemakers residing in ruins.
3. Ghouls: Evil jinns from folklore that prey on humans, often depicted in deserts or graveyards.
4. Hin: Lesser-known jinns considered quieter and less harmful, preferring solitude.
5. Muslim Jinn: Jinns who believe in Islam and strive to live peacefully.
6. Shayateen (plural of Shaytan): Evil jinns dedicated to leading humans away from good, followers of Iblis (the Islamic equivalent of Satan).

Key Quote:

"The Shayateen is a descriptive word for someone whose main goal is to lead people away from good."
— Mark Gagnon [07:30]

The Story of "The Boy and the Jinn"

One of the episode's highlights is the recounting of "The Boy and the Jinn," a Reddit-sourced tale that exemplifies jinn possession and interaction with humans. The story narrates how a shy Bengali boy, Imran, gains the ability to recite and discuss complex Quranic passages in Arabic after encountering a jinn in an abandoned school building. This possession leads to fear among his peers, prompting an Islamic exorcism. The resolution involves relocating the boy to his family home, allowing the jinn to depart naturally.

Key Quote:

"Sheikh Hassan Ali was part of the group that drove the boy home. He states that when taking him home, the boy attempted to open the car door while they were traveling 70 miles an hour on the highway, but the teacher stopped him."
— Mark Gagnon [34:00]

Customs and Beliefs Surrounding Jinns

Mark explores various Islamic customs designed to protect against jinn interference:

• Invocation of Bismillah: Reciting "Bismillah" (In the name of Allah) serves as both a protective shield and a signal to jinns of a believer's presence, encouraging them to stay away.

  Key Quote:

  "Bismillah alerts any jinn in the vicinity that a believer is present, someone that follows Allah."
  — Mark Gagnon [38:00]

• Avoiding Certain Actions: Practices such as pouring hot water down drains without reciting Bismillah are discouraged to prevent harming jinns and inviting retaliation.

• Nighttime Precautions: Nighttime is considered the jinns' domain, leading Muslims to keep children indoors at sunset and avoid activities like whistling after dark.

  Key Quote:

  "Parents will call their children indoors at maghrib or sunset. This practice is actually rooted in prophetic guidance."
  — Mark Gagnon [42:00]

Jinns and Children

The episode highlights the special attention given to protecting children from jinn interference. Children are believed to have a unique relationship with the supernatural, making them more susceptible to jinn interactions. Practices such as teaching children protective prayers from an early age are common to shield them from potential jinn harm.

Key Quote:

"Children have the ability to perceive and interact with things that adults can't, which is why parents are advised to say Bismillah before even dressing their kids."
— Mark Gagnon [32:23]

Comparisons to Other Religious Supernatural Beings

Mark draws parallels between jinns in Islam and demons or ghosts in Christianity. While Christian demons are typically evil entities without free will, jinns possess moral agency, allowing for both good and evil alignments. Additionally, unlike ghosts, which are often perceived as the spirits of deceased humans, jinns are distinct entities with their own societies and civilizations.

Key Quote:

"They [jinns] are not former humans. They are their own entities that have societies and their own sort of civilizations and their own sort of social structure."
— Mark Gagnon [04:30]

Personal Anecdotes and Contemporary Stories

Mark shares contemporary jinn stories sourced from Reddit, illustrating personal encounters and supernatural experiences attributed to jinns. These narratives range from eerie nighttime encounters to instances of sleep paralysis, reinforcing the pervasive belief in jinn presence in everyday life.

Key Quote:

"It's a way to acknowledge and respect the boundaries between the worlds and recognize that a separate entity created by Allah exists alongside human society."
— Mark Gagnon [50:27]

Conclusion and Takeaways

Mark concludes the episode by emphasizing the importance of respecting jinns and adhering to protective Islamic practices to maintain harmony between the human and spiritual realms. He advises against engaging with jinns through activities like Ouija boards or seances, aligning with the broader message of reverence and caution towards the unseen.

Key Quote:

"Don't mess with them. Look, I don't care what religion you are, don't mess with it. Why risk it, dude?"
— Mark Gagnon [50:45]

Mark also invites listeners to share their own experiences and stories related to jinns or demons, fostering a community of shared supernatural folklore.

Final Thought:

"This is a way for me to explore different cultures and try to get a better grasp on what everyone believes on this big blue planet. There's no better way to understand a person than to understand the God that they worship across any religion."
— Mark Gagnon [51:57]

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Note: Throughout the episode, Mark incorporates notable anecdotes and religious texts to provide a comprehensive understanding of jinns, their roles in Islamic belief, and their impact on daily life. The detailed exploration offers listeners an enlightening perspective on a lesser-known aspect of Islamic theology, making "The Boy And The Jinn" a fascinating listen for those intrigued by supernatural phenomena and religious studies.

Transcript

[Mark Gagnon]

The boy and the Jinn. Jinns aren't just some ancient folklore, campfire story thing. They're explicitly mentioned in Islam's holiest text, the Quran. They're an actual species that exists alongside us on this planet, like a spiritual species, a group of jinn who overhear the Prophet Muhammad reciting the Quran. And they were so moved by the message of the Quran that they accepted Islam and returned to their own people as believers, their beings from a smokeless fire. They prefer locations that humans avoid or rarely visit, but they can and do intersect with the human world regularly. There's the Muslim jinn. They are the jinns that believe in Islam and try to follow the teachings. So I'm going to break down what a jinn is, how they manifest, where they exist, what Muslims believe about them, and we're going to end with some interesting jinn stories. So let's jump to the very beginning.

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[Mark Gagnon]

What's up, people? And welcome back to religion camp. My name is Mark Gagnon and welcome to my tent where every single week we explore the most interesting, controversial and fascinating stories from every religion from around the world, from all the time, ever. Today I'm joined in my tent by Christos, working the old ones and twos. How are you, sir?

[Christos]

Doing great. How are you, Mark?

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm doing great, dude. I have an interesting topic for us to jump into.

[Christos]

Let's hear it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Me being raised a Catholic, I've obviously been around demons. Or by been around demons, I don't mean priests. I mean, like, I was just raised around demonic lore, you know, you hear about demons and stuff. I've never seen one. I don't know where any of them are. I don't. It's not a thing that exists in my life, but to this day, I still have a fear of demons.

[Christos]

Okay?

[Mark Gagnon]

And what's interesting is I was talking to a Muslim friend and I was talking about demons, and he was like, oh, have you ever heard of a jinn? I was like, I've heard the term. I don't really know what it is. He's like, look into a jinn. You're gonna be. You're gonna find it interesting. And, oh, boy, the. The lore on djinns is absolutely fascinating. So if you've heard of a ghost, you've heard of a demon, similar. Ish. But a jinn is its own thing in Islamic belief and has a ton of folklore and fascinating stories. So today, Christos, I'm going to break down what a jinn is, how they manifest, where they exist, what Muslims believe about them. And we're going to end with some interesting jinn stories. There's all sorts of famous ones that, you know, many of my Muslim friends might know. So let's jump to the very beginning, all right? Jinns aren't just some ancient folklore, you know, campfire story thing. They are explicitly mentioned in Islam's holiest text, the Quran, making them very real in, you know, Islamic theology, you know, as real as humans or angels or anything else. And they're not like metaphors or symbols. They're an actual species that exists alongside us on this planet, like a spiritual species, but not always spiritual. They can. They can manifest in many different ways. The word jinn itself comes from Arabic, and its literal meaning is to hide or conceal, which makes a lot of sense because the fundamental nature of these beings is that they're hidden from human sight or they kind of warp or shapeshift. And they exist in our world according to the Muslim theology. They are present on this dimension, but they also exist in different dimensions, and they witness things that we do if they. You know, if they want to. They've seen you doing all of the dirtiest things that you do when you're alone, whatever that is. Also interesting thing, you've seen Aladdin Christos a couple times. Aladdin, obviously, you know, the genie that pops out. Robin Williams, shout out to him, rip.

[Christos]

Will Smith in current times.

[Mark Gagnon]

Also Will Smith in current times. But the genie from Aladdin is based on the Islamic concept of the jinn, like rubbing a lamp. And all of a sudden this being comes out and it's able to, like, grant you wishes and like, you know, help you along your way. Obviously in Aladdin, the genie is kind of like a good guy, but they're not always good. But they're also not always bad, which makes them different from demons. In Christianity, demons are always kind of like evil doing the bidding of Satan or Lucifer. Whereas in Islam, there's actually some jinns that could be good, but we'll get to that later. So what is a jinn? All right, according to Islamic teaching, they're beings from a smokeless fire. Just as humans in Islamic teaching are created from clay, angels from light, these guys are from a smokeless fire. And each was made with a distinct nature. And unlike angels who are more obedient to Allah, jinns are like humans where they're given free will. They can choose to believe or disbelieve. They can choose the good side or the evil side. And because of that, they're held accountable in the afterlife according to, you know, Muslim teaching, just like human beings. And the Quran is pretty straightforward about the existence of jinns. In Surah al Hijir, verse 27, Allah states, and the jinn we created before from scorching fire. And they're mentioned in a bunch of other chapters. There's actually one chapter entirely dedicated to the jinn. It's the Surah al Jinn, chapter 72. This surah tells us the story of a group of jinn who overhear the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, reciting the Quran. And they were so moved by the message of the Quran that they accepted Islam and returned to their own people again. Other jinn as believers, Allah revealed their words in Surah al Jinn saying, O Muhammad. It has been revealed to me that a group of the jinn listened and said, indeed, we have heard an amazing Quran. It guides to the right course and we have believed in it and we will never associate with our Lord anymore. That's pretty wild. That's an interesting thing. And again, in Catholicism, you don't have that. You have demons that are doing bad stuff. I don't think demons can, can convert. But jinns, again, they're not necessarily good or evil. They're just sort of, you know, free willed, spiritual agents that can, you know, roam earth. And again, don't mistake them for ghosts or like people that died and like their spirits or something. They're not former humans. They are or, you know, they are their own entities that have societies and their own sort of civilizations and their own sort of social structure. And most Importantly, the jinn possesses free will, just like us. That is like the wildest part to me. Some choose good, some choose evil. Some become Muslims. Other reject the faith entirely. And like humans, they are held accountable. This concept sets the Islamic understanding apart from other religious traditions. While, you know, belief in supernatural beings exist across a bunch of different cultures, the Muslim conception of jin as morally responsible and facing, you know, eventual salvation or damnation is very distinct. Something I did not know. So in the Islamic understanding, Jin typically inhabit, like, you know, abandoned places, graveyards, darkness, ruins, deserted areas, kind of what you would imagine, like where a ghost would be. They prefer locations that humans avoid or rarely visit. But they can and do intersect with the human world regularly, according to the Muslim tradition. While invisible in their natural state, they can shape shift and appear as animals or even humans when they choose to manifest. They're not bound by, you know, physical laws of nature and reality that we, you know, understand as human beings. They move with supernatural speed and possess, you know, supernatural strength and all different types of things. And depending on the types of, you know, strengths or weaknesses they have, depends on the type of jinn that they are. So, like human beings, jinn have, you know, a wide variety of, I guess you could say, characteristics. And the Islamic tradition recognizes a bunch of different distinct types. Some types of jinn are not even mentioned in the Quran or the Hadith and are a part of more of, like, Islamic folklore. So the marid is one of those. They're not mentioned in the text necessarily, but in folklore it's descriptive for it's the strongest, I guess you could say the strongest or the biggest type of jinn. And the word marid literally means giant or rebellious. And they're often seen as proud or difficult to actually, you know, control. They're usually linked to, like, water or the sea. And in many of the stories, they live far away from humans. People say that they can potentially grant wishes, but only if you trick or force it to somehow grant you the wish. Again, this is like Aladdin metaphor. And they're not easy to deal with. They are considered to be one of the most powerful jinn in Muslim folklore. And even though they're not mentioned directly in the Quran or the Hadith, there's many people who they'll tell you, like, oh, my grandma would tell me stories of the marid. And then there's also the ifrit. This is another form. They are the fiery jinn. They're known for being both smart but also strong. And their name comes from the word that means to Burn. And they're described as being made of, again, the smokeless fire that we talked about before. They're seen as troublemakers who live, you know, in ruins. They show up in the Islamic text like the story where one offers to bring the throne of Queen Sheba to the prophet Solomon before he could even stand up from his throne. There's also a hadith where one tries to bother the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon during prayer. But he was able to stop it. Ifrits are powerful, but they're not unstoppable. And then you have ghouls. Apparently, ghouls come from Muslim folklore. Christos, could you look this up? Actually, if the term ghouls is like an Arabic word, that's really interesting. These are the jinn that are said to eat, like human flesh and trick people. These are pretty evil ones. In the stories, they often show up in deserts or graveyards and they can change their shape to look like animals or people. Some of the stories they actually pretend to be travelers or even beautiful women to trick their victims. Did you find out where the word comes from?

[Christos]

Ghoul is a term with origins in pre Islamic Arabian religion.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wow.

[Christos]

Describing a demonic entity that feeds on the dead and the living.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's fascinating. So a term we use all the time, ghoul is actually ghoul. If you're taking the direct Arabic translation. That's crazy. And yeah, these ghouls, they have a long history. Apparently the Prophet Muhammad once said, there is no ghoul, which some scholars take to mean that these stories are exaggerated. Still, ghouls are common in Arab folklore and are usually seen as, you know, dangerous or at the very least, creepy. Alrighty. Don't skip forward, guys, because I am on the road. World's fastest ad read coming at you. I'm going to be Atlanta, Stroudsburg, Hoboken, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Raleigh, Poughkeepsie, Portland, Oregon, Fort Worth, Texas, Austin, Texas, Stanford, Philly, Levittown, Chandler, Arizona, San Diego. I'm also going to be adding Toronto, Montreal, as well as Washington D.C. and a bunch of other dates. You can get all [e-mail] dates are in the description. Also in probably the comments of this episode. Go see me on the road. Come hang out. I'll be hanging out with everyone after the show. Come shake my hand, call me an idiot, whatever you want to do, I will be there. Additionally, I will be doing my one hour of stand up comedy. I'm very proud of this hour. I'm really excited to share with you guys and it would mean the world if everyone could come on out. And what do you wear to a show on the road? That's a great question. You can go to Camp Goods Co. That's right. We got merch, we got Camp Merch. We got hats, hoodies, T shirts. A lot of stuff is out of stock. Things have been selling like hotcakes. But we're going to be restocking everything in all the sizes. So you can go there right now, get all the merch, get all the coolest clothing in the podcast game. We're going to be updating that site regularly. And if you come out to a show, I'd love to see you sporting some of the threads that we got up online. I'll see you guys there. Let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a quick break because I have great news. Religion Camp has merch. That's right. We have amazing T shirts like this one you see here. And this one we got hats. All sorts of very interesting designs, not only for Christianity, the one I was raised in, but for all religions. Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism. I actually don't know if we have a Mormonism shirt, but maybe we can work on that if we got any, you know, Latter Day Saints trying to cop. Anyway, you can catch it all here at this link. We'll also have it in the description as well as the comments. Get that right now and peace be with you. And then you have the Hin. These are lesser known types of jinn that are considered weaker and, you know, more quiet. They don't usually bother people and they're often said to appear as, you know, animals or something. And they show up in more like, old stories and folklore than they do in actual official Islamic text. Some even say they're a part of ancient jinn tribes that don't mix with humans. Overall, the. The Hin aren't seen as dangerous so much as they just kind of keep to themselves. It's actually interesting seeing the delineation between, you know, what's seen actually in the, the scholarship or the sort of arcane texts of a religion, right, like the Quran or the Hadith versus things that appear in like, folklore. And so like in Christianity, there's versions of this, right, where there's things that kind of exist in folklore. You, I wonder if you could even say like, you know, some of like the medieval, like miracles or something of like the Catholic Church. It's not in the actual, you know, dogma of the faith. It's not in the Bible, but it's still something that like Catholics, you know, read about, they know about the historicity hasn't necessarily been fully verified, but it still exists kind of in, you know, common culture. Or even something like saying bless you when you sneeze. You know, I think that's actually a better version. If someone sneezes, you say, bless you. And I've heard a bunch of different reasons, but apparently, you know, it's because like in that moment, it's like, you know, a demon can enter you and so you say bless you as a way to, you know, send a blessing to someone that sneezes. It's not in the Bible, but it's something that a lot of Christians and, you know, non Christians do just kind of as like a, you know, a social sign of respect, I guess. I don't know. Pro baller Lonzo ball for Buzzballs Ready to go. Cocktails take 12.

[Kaley Cuoco]

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[Mark Gagnon]

Script says Biggie's blue balls Lonzo take 13.

[Kaley Cuoco]

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[Mark Gagnon]

Let's try a vocal exercise.

[Kaley Cuoco]

Buzz balls. Biggies. Blue balls. Buzz balls. Biggies. Blue balls. Big ball. Get blue balls. This season with Buzzball, please read responsibly.

[Mark Gagnon]

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[Mark Gagnon]

Think it's really just to cover up the awkwardness of someone having a loud ass sneeze on an airplane. It's just basically being like, oh, all right, you okay? Anyway, there's more jins. There's the Muslim jinn, which this might be the most interesting one to me because they are the jinns that believe in Islam and try to follow the teachings. So these jinns are like the ones we talked about in the Quran that overheard the Prophet reciting the Quran and decided to become Muslim. They pray, they worship, they live peacefully, staying away and you know, they don't cause harm or anything like that. And they have some of the same powers as other jinn, like, you know, invisibility, you know, supernatural, things like that. But they use their abilities for good. And then you also have the shayateen. The singular is the shaytan. And, you know, they follow the. The iblis. This is the Islamic or the Muslim version of Satan. And these guys are a little different because, again, not all Shayateen are jinns. Gets confusing, but follow me here. The shayateen is a descriptive word for someone whose main goal is to lead people away from good. So that means humans can also be shayateen. They whisper bad thoughts and they, you know, try to mess with people's emotions to cause anger or pride. And the Quran talks about them a lot, actually, saying that they, you know, try to eavesdrop on heaven to steal information, but then they got chased away by shooting stars. They also can be involved and like magic and work with people who practice black magic. But what make the Shayateen so sort of unique is that these jinn have chosen to do wrong and are seen as the most harmful. So they're almost the exact opposite. And Iblis is a fascinating, you know, sort of character, I guess you could say, or force if you're, you know, a believer of, of of Islam. So the Iblis is. Is fascinating. So thousands of years before Adam was created, the Jinn lived on earth. And they had their own societies, families, free will, all that stuff. And they weren't all evil, right? Some are, you know, sort of devout. They follow Allah. Others are rebellious, just like humans would be. But here's the interesting thing. The Jinn begin to cause chaos. They start to kill. They're spreading corruption on earth. So according to some Islamic scholars, Allah sent down a group of angels to subdue them. The rebellious Jinn were then cast out and scattered, especially into remote places, like, you know, ruins and oceans and deserts and all that kind of stuff. And among the jinn was a being named Iblis. Now, here's where things get a little crazy. Iblis was not an angel, despite some of the early confusion. And the Quran makes it clear. It says he was one of the Jinn. So he disobeyed the command of his Lord. But Iblis was so righteous and devout that Allah allowed him to rise up and live among the angels he worshiped for thousands of years, thinking of himself as like a. Like a. Like a prodigy of the Jinn. He was highly respected and powerful and pure. Da da da da on the outside. But Then here's the turning point. Allah creates Adam, the first human. And then Allah says to the angels, and Iblis bow to Adam. All the angels obeyed, but Iblis refused. Why? He says, I am better than him. You created me from fire and you created him from clay. And again, it wasn't about obedience necessarily. It was about pride. Iblis, you know, he couldn't accept that a being of clay would be honored above the being of fire. You know, like this, like more powerful, powerful force. He believed. So what does Allah do? He expelled him from his mercy. Then this is what he says in the Quran. Then get out of here. For indeed you are expelled, and indeed upon you is my curse until the day of judgment. But Iblis wasn't done. He vows revenge because you have led me astray, I will surely sit and wait for them on your straight path. So it's very similar to the, you know, the story of the fall of, you know, Lucifer in, you know, Christianity where you have this angel that's in, in heaven and God says, okay, you're going to serve and, you know, have respect from humankind, Adam and Eve, these beings, these humans that I created. And Lucifer refuses and his pride ultimately gets him cast out of heaven. It's a very similar story. Interesting. I did not know that that was the understanding of Iblis or Shaytan. And so Iblis gets cast away and he would now spend his existence leading humans and jinn astray, becoming the shaytan, right? Satan, the whisperer, the deceiver. And many jinn followed Iblis in his rebellion. These became who we mentioned earlier, right? These, these shayatan, the, the plural of shaitan, the evil jinn. They spread mischief, whisper to humans, possess people, do all the bad, evil stuff that you can imagine an evil spirit would do. But not all the jinn followed him. Some jinn are still believers, like the Muslim jinn who overheard the Prophet Muhammad reciting the Quran. So remarkably, the jinn have these physical needs similar to humans. They eat, they drink, they marry, they have kids. There's actually a hadith in which a jinn asked the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him for provisions. And he responded by designating bones and animal droppings as their food. True thing. So the Prophet says, every bone over which the name of Allah has been mentioned will be for you more than enough meat and the dung of camels will be food for your animals. It's pretty wild. That's right in there. That's, that's a. That is a hadith, but I did not know that. So for this reason Muslims are instructed not to use bones or droppings for cleaning after relieving themselves. Wow. So they don't use bones. I guess that was a thing that people were using back in the day, a bone, as they're considered provisions for the Jinn described by the Prophet as your brothers. This is. This is fascinating to me. I did not really know any of this. So in pre Islamic Arabia, the Jinn were worshiped by many and thought to inspire poets and prophets. And the Quran explicitly forbids this. They say, don't do this, emphasizing that the Jinn, like humans, are merely the creations of Allah and you cannot worship the creation when you should worship the Creator. This is, you know, the foundational tenet of Islam known as Tawid, the worship of the one God alone. Their interactions with humans can range from benign to harmful. While most jinn simply exist in their own sort of realm without interfering with human affairs. Some, particularly those aligned with evil that follow, you know, Iblis or, you know, the Shaytan, they seek to mislead and harm people. And fundamentally, the Jinn serves the same purpose as humans in creation, to worship Allah alone. That is their job. As the Quran states in Surah Ad Darhiat. And I did not create the Jinn in mankind except to worship me. So despite their supernatural nature, they face the same spiritual tests that all human beings do. What's up, people? Quick announcement. If you are a fan of Camp Gagnon or religion camp, I have great news because we are dropping History Camp. That's right. This is the channel. We're going to be exploring the most interesting, fascinating, controversial topics from all time throughout all history. Right. You probably know about Benjamin Franklin, I don't know, Thomas Jefferson, Nikola Tesla, interesting figures from history, and you probably learned about them school. And they were pretty boring, but not here. Now, as you know, I was raised by a conspiracy theorist. So I'm going to be diving deep into all of the interesting, strange, occult and secretive societal relationships that all of these famous, influential men from our shared past have. So if you're interested, please go ahead and subscribe to the YouTube channel. It will be pinned in the description as well as the comments. And if you're on Spotify, this doesn't really apply to you, but these episodes will be dropping as well. Just go ahead and give us a high rating because it really helps the show. Now, let's get back to it. Now. There's all sorts of interesting implications that occur now in Muslim culture as a result of this idea of jinns. Right in the way that, you know, Christians say, bless you. Muslims have their own version of this. This. So in Muslim communities worldwide, one of the most, I guess, you know, iconic or used phrases is a protective phrase, and it stands above basically all the others. And this is the full phrase here. Bismillah ah rahman a rahim. So this translates literally to in the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful. And this simple invocation serves as both a shield but also a signal to the jinn. Most Muslims today, you know, are just taught to say, you know, bismillah. And they say this all the time before entering a home, specifically, like an abandoned one or anything like that, or really before any type of undertaking or something that they're going to do. So the same applies when entering, you know, maybe like, a bathroom. Places traditionally believed to be, you know, frequented by jinns. And it's not just tradition. It's mentioned in the authentic hadiths where the Prophet Muhammad advised reciting specific prayers when entering places like these bathrooms or, you know, other places that jinns might be in order to seek refuge from these entities. And why is this invocation so effective? According to the Islamic understanding, the uttering bismillah alerts any jinn in the vicinity that a believer is present, someone that follows Allah. It serves as, like, a warning, but also gives the jinn, like, an opportunity to, like, get out of the way and kind of, you know, leave me alone. Basically, it's like, in the power of Christ compels you. Something you might hear Christians say functions in a very similar way. Bismillah. And so the name of Allah literally works as, like, a spiritual barrier. Another interesting thing that, you know, happens sometimes in, you know, I guess you could say more religious Muslim households is that there's a belief that by pouring hot water down a drain without saying bismillah in the name of God, it is possible that someone could unknowingly, like, burn or even, like, kill a jinn that's, like, in the pipes. And then this can lead to retaliation, as the jinns are believed to, like, have families and, you know, communities. They might seek revenge. Which is why many Muslims will have a habit to say bismillah before boiling, you know, pouring out boiling water. You know, it's partially out of superstition, but it's also this root, this, like, you know, old tradition of respecting the unseen or these, you know, supernatural beings, some of which, you know, might be, you know, Muslim or, you know, believers in Allah. And the traditional advice avoids, you know, even urinating in like, Like a hole. Or something, or, you know, near bushes or stagnant water without saying bismillah first, as it might be possible you're disrupting or disturbing jinn, which then can retaliate against you. Another interesting thing is the passage of night and how nighttime is seen as a, you know, a playground for the jinn to actually cause, you know, problems. So in Islamic culture worldwide, specifically in sort of the Middle east, parents will call their children indoors at maghrib or sunset. And this practice is actually rooted in, you know, prophetic guidance. You know, there's been, it's been narrated by a gentleman, Jabir IBN Abdullah, who reported that the prophet Muhammad said, when the wings of the night spread, or when evening comes, keep your children in, for the devils come out at that time. So again, if this is in your holy book, at nighttime, kids got to come inside the, you know, street lights. Come on, get in there. And the night is considered the domain of the jinn, a time when the barrier of the world becomes thinner. I think, you know, even Christians have this something known as like the witching hour. You know, like Christian lore will have like 3am it's the time where, you know, the, the evil world and our world have like, you know, the veil is, is closer. And so that becomes this sort of like superstition. You could say, hey, don't play outside after dark. And it has a fundamental, you know, basis in religious texts. Another interesting thing that again, I don't know how prevalent these are. I don't know if they're widespread or if like a lot of Muslims practice this or maybe it's something you've heard like your parents say or something. But there's a taboo or you perhaps a superstition around whistling specifically at night. Fascinating. Again, I never knew this. So again, on this topic, there's a lot of different variations or opinions specifically from Islamic scholars and depending on the region, etc. But there's a superstition or a strong discouragement of whistling in the evening time. Some of these scholars have said that they consider whistling as a dislike or something that could, you know, come with, you know, I guess, invoking a jinn. And some people believe that this whistling sort of superstition has a, you know, pre Islamic sort of Arabic custom where, you know, various sounds were thought to communicate with the unseen. So, you know, nowadays mainstream Muslim scholarship doesn't, you know, definitively connect whistling with the jinn. But there is sort of like this weird cultural avoidance that persists, you know, even to today in some communities. Here is a bullet. Imagine this. You're 30ft underground, digging through frozen earth with spoons and mess hall plates. Nazi guards patrol overhead. One wrong move, one loose pebble, and it's over. But on this night in 1944, 76 Allied prisoners would attempt the impossible, tunneling their way to freedom in the largest prisoner of war escape of World War II. And centuries earlier. In a cold stone chamber, a teenage girl in armor stood before her accusers. Her crime? Leading armies, speaking to angels, and daring to challenge the most powerful men in Europe. Joan of Arc's trial would become one of history's most infamous moments. These are just two stories from Today in History, the newsletter that brings you the most fascinating events from the past, delivered fresh to your inbox. From epic wars to religious rebellions, ancient mysteries to modern marvels, don't miss another piece of history. Scan the QR code now or click the link in the description to sign up for Today in History. In a secret CIA facility, doctors administered mysterious substances to unwitting Americans. Their goal? Mind control. The year was 1973, and as agents frantically burned thousands of documents, Project MK Ultra's darkest secrets nearly vanished into smoke. Now step back to Friday the 13th, 1314. The Grand Master of history's most powerful military order kneels before the flames. As the fire rises, Jacques de Molay, last leader of the Knights Templar, utters a curse so chilling that when both the French king and pope die within the year, whispers of dark prophecy spread across Europe. Now these aren't crazy conspiracy theories or something you read in, you know, some fan fiction. These are real historical events you'll discover in Today in History, the newsletter that uncovers the strange, shocking and sublime moments that shape our world. Get your daily dose of mind bending history. Scan the QR code or click the link below to join Today in History.

[Kaley Cuoco]

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[Mark Gagnon]

There's also an interesting element to a lot of, like, you know, Arabic or Muslim folklore that has to do with jinn and children. So you'll hear, hear these stories like the boy and the djinn, and there's a specific attention towards, you know, teaching children specifically to, you know, avoid jinn or try to stay away from these dark spirits. And there's a belief that, you know, children have a different relationship with the supernatural. They can perceive and interact with things that adults can't. And which is why a lot of parents are advised to say bismillah when even dressing their kids sort of as an invocation to, you know, give divine protection to their, to their children. Again, because these jinn, according to, you know, Muslim teaching, is that they sometimes will prey on children and they're actually go for children because they don't necessarily have the same relationship or, you know, forethought to always be considering Allah. And so, you know, strange and frightening behavior in children, you know, specifically during transitional times like sunset, you know, or, you know, twilight going into nighttime, could be interpreted as a jinn interfering with the children. So many parents are advising or advised to teach children, you know, protective prayers and practices from a very early age, creating a habit that will shield them away from jinn throughout their life. So again, all of these traditions and customs, some of which are built sort of in, you know, the folklore of the faith, but also in the holy text themselves. And they're not about fear necessarily. They're not about being, you know, terrified that a jinn is going to come out at any moment, but also about respect, acknowledging the boundaries between the worlds and acknowledging that there is a separate entity that was created by Allah that kind of exists around our world as human beings. And the earth isn't only humanity's domain, but there's also a spiritual component that exists on earth. Now another interesting component that Christianity and Islam both share is the idea of possession. So obviously in Christianity you have all these famous movies and stories about demonic possession. But in, you know, traditional Islamic sources, there's also stories of jinn possessing human beings, causing physical and mental harm. And there's, you know, a rare cases of genuine, you know, Muslim possession or the possession of a jinn that affect, you know, a person and they can have seizures, speak in unknown languages, or even lose control of their speech. However, mainstream Islamic scholars emphasize that actual possession is extremely rare, almost never. And most cases attributed to jinn actually have some type of psychological explanation. Likely the case with Christians as well. Most of the time you're treating someone for a demon when really it might just be epilepsy or something like that. But that does not mean that there are not very many stories about interactions and experiences with Jinnah that have been, you know, told, you know, throughout the decades from, you know, all sorts of, you know, Muslim students or specifically like kids that like to share some of these, some of the, you can almost consider them ghost stories, but they're, they're a little higher stakes. You know, as a, like I said, growing up Catholic, going to like a Christian school, sometimes as kids you'd like tell each other demon stories. Be like, dude, my grandma saw a demon. Like, oh my, my friend, he was attacked by a demon. So now I will share with you some of the most interesting jinn stories that I found on the Internet. So this is one known as the Boy and the Jinn. And again, correct me if any of my pronunciation here is incorrect, but here's how the story goes. Sheikh Hassan Ali and his colleagues found an old Royal Air Force building that had been abandoned for about 20 years. They decided to convert it into an Islamic school, a madrasa. The building was enormous, approximately 120 rooms with three different halls divided east into west wings. And initially they only used about seven or eight of the rooms in the east wing. Planning to gradually expand their use of the building, all the students were explicitly instructed not to go to the west wing. Among the students is a 13 year old boy from Bangladesh. Sometimes he's referred to as Imran in some of the tellings of the story. He was extremely shy and extremely quiet and he didn't know any English or Arabic, he only spoke Bengali. He was working on memorizing the Quran, but had only learned just one chapter at that point. One day, this boy wandered into the forbidden west wing of the building. When he returned, no one immediately noticed anything unusual. But later that evening, during the Quran recitation practice, something very strange happened. The normally shy Bengali boy approached his teacher with this weird, unusual confidence and he said, test me. Speaking in perfect Arabic, a language that he does not know. The teacher, thinking that the boy was joking, decided to humor him and asked him to recite the 15th chapter of the Quran, a section that the boy had never studied. To everyone's surprise, the boy recited it flawlessly. The teacher was shocked and tested him with passages from different parts of the Quran. And the boy recited each perfectly, without hesitation. Even more surprisingly, he began to speak fluent Arabic and engaged his teacher in complex theological discussion. And initially, the teachers were amazed, thinking perhaps he was a divine blessing, maybe a miracle had happened. Allah had spoken to this boy directly and gave him this amazing insight. But soon the boy's behavior turned very bizarre. That night, he took hair clippers and shaved half his head, leaving the other half untouched. He was walking down the corridor and other kids saw him. And the kids began screaming, gin. Gin. The teachers heard all of this, and when seeing the boy's hair, they decided that he must shave the other half off. The truly frightening events began that night. The boy shared a Dorm room with five other students. And around 2am These five roommates came running out screaming and banging on the principal's door. Jin, jin, jin. They all shouted, and the principal investigated. He found only this one Bengali boy, Imran, sleeping in his room. The principal calmed the frightened students and sent them back to bed. But shortly thereafter, the same thing happened. They went and they banged on the principal's door. And when questioned, the terrified roommates described hearing a strange noise, fingernails dragging across the walls and an eerie voice calling out the boy's name repeatedly in the darkness, saying, imran. Imran. The school's religious teacher determined that the boy was possessed by a jinn. So they began performing an Islamic exorcism which involved reciting specific verses from the Quran. Sheikh Hassan Ali personally witnessed what happened next. The boy, rather the entity within him, was a Hafiz al Quran, which is a Muslim individual who has memorized the entire Quran. As the teacher recited verses from the Quran, the boy simultaneously recited different verses that would counteract the effects of the exorcism. This was astounding because the boy had only memorized one chapter of the Quran before this incident, but now was reciting verses specifically chosen to nullify the effects of the exorcism. Religious scholars carefully assessed the situation and came to understand what had happened because he himself was able to see some djinns. He said that the boy entered the west wing and had encountered a family of jinn that had temporarily taken residence there. And a young jinn from the family had attached itself to the boy, explaining his sudden ability to speak Arabic and recite Quranic passages that he had never learned. The scholar determined that these jinn were temporary visitors who would be staying in the building for one month. So rather than continue with traditional exorcism, which wasn't working, he recommended returning the boy to his family home for exactly one month until the jinn family would naturally depart from the building. Sheikh Hassan Ali was part of the group that drove the boy home. He states that when taking him home, the boy attempted to open the car door while they were traveling 70 miles an hour on the highway, but the teacher stopped him. The boy then remained at home for one month, and when he returned to the school afterwards, he was completely back to normal. The same shy, quiet Bengali boy who knew of only one chapter of the Quran and didn't speak a word of Arabic. So there you go. That is the story of the boy and the jinn. Now, I was curious about this again. I'm fascinated by the strange, supernatural, bizarre. So I went to Reddit and found a couple more stories, more contemporary stories that random Muslims from around the world shared. And here are a few others. Again, this will be told from the first person point of view. I stay at my grandpa's place. Most of the time it's just me. My three aunts, my grandparents, my cousins come there occasionally too. They live in a society that's pretty green like there's lots of trees. There's a really cool park, 10 minute walk from the place and I usually go there at night. Long story short, one day me and a friend decided to walk and explore the society at night and take the long way to the park because we deliberately wanted something strange to happen, perhaps paranormal. We were walking on the sidewalk along the main road at night. It was about 1am and there was a bit of a fog coming through as well. My friend said not to walk underneath the trees, but me being, you know, dumb, thought it would be just one of those made up myths that your aunt tells you. We eventually reached this pretty old tree, remember? Side note, these djinns sometimes, according to folklore, exist in bushes and stuff like that. We eventually reached the pretty old tree. It was dead and dry in the middle of nowhere. I didn't know why I did this, but I joked with my friend, saying a particular djinn's name. I then added blank. You know the name. They didn't include it here. You live here, right? I want your place now. And I kid you not, at that exact moment, the most horrific growl came from right above the tree, right over our heads. And that growl is still etched in my ears. It was like this. It sounded like a bear. Just to give you, like, an idea. It was so loud, and my ears started to ring, and we started running instantly. And we started, you know, reciting Ayat ul Kursi and just kept running as fast as we could until we reached my friend's place. We ended up at his place since it was closer. His mom was asleep on the upper floor. We entered, and slowly, as we were walking to the room, we heard heavy breathing coming from a room about 10ft away, as if someone huge was breathing really loudly. So we sprinted to his room. We locked it. Then I heard someone calling his name from outside. There was no one else in the house at all except his mom, who was sleeping. And if it was her, she would have just opened the door herself. We literally heard someone moving things outside the room and walking, but there was nobody there. In the morning, I went back to my own place, and my friend told me that when he slept, he woke up feeling that there was someone sitting on his chest and he couldn't move or breathe. He then said he began reciting ayahs from the surah, and that feeling of someone being on his chest went away. Thankfully, it didn't happen to me. But now I read so many surahs before going to sleep every night. So never walk under trees at night and do not challenge the jinns, because they are as real as the day. That's story number two from Reddit. That one. I mean, that one's pretty spooky. You know, I could. I could see myself, like, if you're, like, a teenage, you know, like, Muslim kid, you're, like, sharing stories of these jinns. Like, Christians did this all the time. At least the ones I knew. Like, we would go on, like, camping trips, and they'd be like, dude. They'd be like, dude, I saw a demon one time. You know, this demon was crazy. Pulled it to my house. He was in my car. Da, da, da. And they tell the whole story. It's wild. I mean, I'm actually curious. Christos, you growing up, did anyone ever tell, like, ghost.

[Kaley Cuoco]

At New Balance, we.

[Mark Gagnon]

Believe if you run You're a runner.

[Kaley Cuoco]

However you choose to do it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Because when you're not worried about doing.

[Kaley Cuoco]

Things the right way, you're free to discover your way.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that's what running is all about.

[Kaley Cuoco]

Run your [e-mail] Running this episode is brought to you by Lifelock. Not everyone is careful with your personal information, which might explain why there's a victim of identity theft every five seconds in the U.S. fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year by visiting lifelock.com podcast terms apply.

[Mark Gagnon]

Stories or demon stories. Like, do you ever get that, like in New York? I don't even know if that happens.

[Christos]

Ghost stories per se was usually like a camp thing.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Christos]

Just to freak everybody out while you're in a very vulnerable place.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, of course. But never any, like, demon stories. Like, I wonder if like, you didn't grow up that religious.

[Christos]

I did up until like I was 10.

[Mark Gagnon]

Did you talk about these kind of stories in like Greek Orthodox Church?

[Christos]

There's not a lot of demon related stuff in Eastern Orthodox.

[Mark Gagnon]

Interesting, right? That's how it is in Catholicism too. There's not like a ton of demon stuff. It's more like when I went to Presbyterian, like Evangelical school, the people talked about demons a lot. The time, like Catholic wasn't really that. That big. I imagine it's the same thing with, in, in Islam because I talked to some of my Muslim friends, I was like, did you talk about jinns and stuff growing up? And they're like, nah, not really. Like sometimes it comes up and I wonder if like the different sex or like whether you're like Sunni or Shia or like depending on how like fundamental your family was. If, if that changes how much. I'm actually curious, if you're a Muslim, listen to this. Like, tell me, what did your parents teach you about jinns? Was it something that they talked about? Was it, was it just something that you just kind of read every now and again, like in the Quran, and then just kept it moving? I'd be curious to know.

[Christos]

It's also interesting that they're not specifically not dead people. They're their own thing. Whereas our ghost stories are usually dead people.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I mean, like in American society, ghost stories are that way. But in Catholicism you never hear about dead people stories.

[Christos]

Like in Christianity, any ghost ever is a dead person.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, but like, like I Feel like Christians don't really believe in ghosts. Like, my mom doesn't believe in ghosts. She believes in demons. She doesn't believe in ghosts. I don't even know if ghosts have a place. Like, what is a ghost? A soul that didn't go to heaven or hell.

[Christos]

Yeah, like a pagan. Is that what.

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't know. Anyway, we got one more gin story. Ok, again, this was pulled from Reddit, so credit to whoever wrote this. At some point in my early teenage years, when I was about 13, I'd wake up in the middle of the night and see this black figure standing at the foot of my bed. Somehow I knew it was a woman, even though I'd never seen her face. She would appear about once every couple of months, and the first time I was petrified, I'd sit up in the night staring at her, and eventually I just sort of got used to her. Depending on how tired I was, I'd either, you know, go back to bed, tell her to go away, or even try to speak to her, but she would never respond. Occasionally she would appear standing over me in bed. And this was the most scary. Later, a friend of mine who was a qualified psychologist told me that there are various stress related illnesses that can manifest themselves like this. My childhood was very stressful for different reasons, so I assumed that was it. The last two times I saw her, I was about 25 years old. And again, seven years later, on my honeymoon, when my wife woke me up petrified that there was a woman in black standing at the foot of our bed. I stared at the woman in black, then at my wife. I was shocked my wife could see her. I got up to turn the light on and then she was gone. I didn't want to scare my wife, so I just told her that I didn't see anything. I've never told my wife this story because it would just probably scare her. And I don't think I ever will. I do ask her from time to time if she ever saw her again, and she hasn't. She told me that, you know, this is one of her djinn stories. And I just sit there and I listen with a smile on my face. But deep down, I hope that the woman in black never comes back again. Whoa. All right. So, yeah, I mean, it's kind of similar. I mean, I've heard stories like this in Christianity where, like, my friends will be like, dude, I was sleeping, I felt this thing on my chest. Like, there's actually a long history of, like, sleep paralysis that I think occurs across Cultures that, you know, sometimes is attributed to this, but maybe that's what sleep paralysis is. Maybe it is a demon. I don't know. But, like, the hag is like this famous thing, like this idea of a thing on your chest and you can't move and. And sometimes you can't see it, but you just feel like a weight on you. I don't know what to make of it all as, like a. Again, as a someone that grew up Catholic, I've never seen something like this. I've never seen the supernatural. I've never seen a demon. Never seen a jinn. I don't really want to. I'm not interested. If it's out there, it's good out there. I don't need it to be in my house. But it's just not something I've ever really had experience with. So it's difficult for me to be like, oh, this is definitely supernatural. But of course, if you followed this religious tradition, then it would be for you. So in that regard it makes sense. So the main takeaway from this. Don't mess with them. Look, I don't care what religion you are, don't mess with it. I have friends that, like, you know, don't believe in anything. They're like, oh, yeah, I'll do a Ouija board. I'll do a seance. I'll talk, try to talk to a demon. Don't. Don't. Don't do that. I'm. Why risk it, dude? Right? Like, I. I don't. Like, even that old thing when you were a kid, like, oh, say Bloody Mary in the mirror. Like, you know, this whole thing, like, say Bloody Mary and see what happens. Would you do that now? Like, are you brave enough to be? Like, yeah, I'll go do it.

[Christos]

Absolutely not.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's so weird, right? Because, like, do you actually think that something would happen if you said Bloody Mary in the mirror three times? Like, if a gun to your head, like, if I gave you a thousand dollars, would you go do it?

[Christos]

Not enough.

[Mark Gagnon]

Really?

[Christos]

That's not enough?

[Mark Gagnon]

Are you being dead serious right now?

[Christos]

$1,000 is not enough.

[Mark Gagnon]

You're being fully serious.

[Christos]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Because, like, have you. You've never seen a demon, have you?

[Christos]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a few ghosts.

[Mark Gagnon]

All right, tell me, is there a short version of this?

[Christos]

No, they're. They're just all related to previously past people and then seeing them in real life.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, you told me one of them. Oh, that's it. But it's always related to A human that existed?

[Christos]

Well, once on a ski trip, I was driving back in the middle of the night and I'm pretty sure I saw a ghost floating over the middle barrier. And then I looked back and then it was gone.

[Mark Gagnon]

So weird. Yeah. I've never seen anything like that. Nothing like that's ever, ever? No.

[Christos]

Huh.

[Mark Gagnon]

As someone that's like, so interested in like, the supernatural and like, you know, sort of bizarre stuff like that, I've never seen anything like that again. I have no interest.

[Christos]

But consider yourself lucky.

[Mark Gagnon]

I am lucky. I'm. But like, even with that, like, again, if I win, the bathroom said Bloody Mary. Da da da da. Do I think anything would happen? No. Would I try it? No way. I don't know what you call that. I don't know, like, it's kind of like you seem to think that a.

[Christos]

Thousand dollars was a lot to do that.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, well, like, I feel like if you just ask someone, like, that's not. Not super religious or like, believes in the supernatural, like, hey, would you do this for 20 bucks? I feel like they'd be like, sure. I feel like most of my friends would do it for 20 bucks. I'm surprised that you wouldn't do it for a thousand, to be honest.

[Christos]

Not this friend. If you consider me that.

[Mark Gagnon]

You are a friend.

[Christos]

Christos, you're my friend too, Mark. Thank you.

[Mark Gagnon]

But if you want to be my best friend, you have to go in the bathroom, say Bloody Mary three times.

[Christos]

It's okay. David could say your best friend.

[Mark Gagnon]

I bet you he would do it. That's psycho. He'd probably be down. But yeah, I don't know. So regardless, just don't mess with it. What's the point? What do you get? I don't know. If you're Muslim and you, you know, watch this episode, I'd love to know, what do you think? If you have a story, please drop it in the comments. Let me know what you think. Have you ever seen a jinn? Is this a real thing? What's going on? If you're not Muslim, if you have experience with demons, what do you think? Do you feel like jinns are just demons? Demons, jinns? I would love to know your thoughts. Please drop them in the comments below. I read all of them, even the meanwhile. So just trying to be nice to me. Okay? I'm doing my best out here. But anyway, this has been another episode of Religion camp. We do these every Sunday, potentially dropping more. And yeah, this is just a way for me to explore people culture and trying to get a Better grasp on what everyone believes on this big blue planet. You know, I. I truly think that there's no better way to understand a person than to understand the God that they worship across the board, across any religion. It's crazy that you can be like, oh, yeah, I like people, you know, I'm interested in the world, but not know how a billion people orient their lives. For most people, the religion is like their most important thing in their life. And you, you know, how are you? It's. To me, it's like, how can you understand someone that grew up Hindu or is a practicing Hindu that doesn't if you don't know, you know, their God or. Same with Muslim and Christianity and all that stuff. So this is a way for me just to kind of do that and maybe share it with you people and see what you think. Anyway, this has been another episode of religion camp. I appreciate y'all. Peace be with you. If you've made it to the end of this episode. You are clearly someone who understands that beneath every historical event lies a deeper truth waiting to be uncovered. You're the type of person who knows that real history is more fascinating than any fiction. And we deeply appreciate that about you. I'll be honest, that's exactly why I personally invite you to sign up for Today in History, our free newsletter that goes beyond the surface of historical events. We dive into the stories that textbooks never told you, the secrets that challenge the course of nations, and the forgotten tales that deserve to be remembered. Let's continue this journey of discovery together. Take the conversation from your headphones into your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description Today in History. Because every day day holds a secret waiting to be revealed. Thank you for being part of our historical journey. We'll see you next time.