BT Dubs (14:17)

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Kaley Cuoco (14:42)

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Mark Yagnon (14:48)

So now that we've unpacked, how circumcision enters the story of Judaism as this intimate physical sign of the covenant between God and Abraham. And the obvious next question that you're all wondering is how has this been carried out over the centuries? Enter the Brit Mila, or the bris, as it's often called in Yiddish. That's the name of the ritual circumcision ceremony. In Jewish tradition, the phrase literally means covenant of circumcision. And it's not just a medical procedure. It's a full on religious event. It's where theology meets tradition, meets crying newborns, meets bagels and lox, all that stuff. Here's how it typically goes down. The Brit Milah is performed on the eighth day after a baby is born. Just like the commandment in Genesis says for the generations to come, every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your house, household, or brought with money from a foreigner. Those who are not your offspring. That's from Genesis. Go read it. And yes, that includes the eighth day, even if it falls on Shabbos or Shabbat. This is the day of rest for the Jews. The only time it's delayed is for health reasons. The person performing the procedure is called a moil. And this is someone specifically trained in both the surgical and religious aspects of the ritual. But this isn't just a doctor with a scalpel. The moil understands the covenant and the meaning of what they're doing. Again, you can think of a halal or a kosher butcher, right? This is someone that is a proficient butcher, but also understands how to do it in order to adhere to the religious customs of a faith. Today, the moils can be rabbis, physicians, or both, depending on the community. The ceremony itself includes blessings, readings, and of course, the actual circumcision. The baby is usually held by a designated family member known as the Sandek, often a grandfather or someone honored in the community. Think of it as like the Jewish version of a godparent, only their job is to hold the baby still during, you know, a dramatic moment. And there's usually a naming ceremony built into the Brit Mullah as well. These ceremonies are important parts of all religions. Think of the christening in Christianity or in Sikhi. There is a well known event called the Naam Koran, where the Granthi, a person who reads scriptures, opens the Sikh holy book, the Guru Granth Sahib. If you don't rem and he opens it at random and the first letter of the first word of the page becomes the first letter of the child's name. Because the Guru Granth Sahib is known to Sikhs as the final guru. This is akin to the guru naming the child. But back to the Jews, the British is when the child is given his Hebrew name, surrounded by family and friends. It is a big deal. The name, the covenant, first public introduction of the child into the community. Afterwards, as with most Jewish events, there's food because no matter what the occasion, you're going to get stuffed. Okay. Now, has this always looked the same throughout Jewish history? Not exactly. In ancient times, especially during periods of foreign rule like under the Seleucid Greeks, circumcision was a point of intense cultural pressure. Some Jewish men even tried to reverse their circumcisions in order to assimilate into Hellenistic society. There's actually a whole thing if you've never seen some people are trying to reverse their circumcisions to be like, ya boy. And they have these like weighted machines that will literally fold the skin back over the glands of your penis. And they are available for sale@campgoods.com that is a joke, but maybe a great idea. The Maccabean Revolt, the one that Hanukkah commemorates, was partly a response to this. A reclaiming of this Jewish identity and ultimately religious freedom for the Jews, including the right to perform the bris. In medieval Europe, circumcision was central, but it sometimes had to be done in secret, depending on the political climate. And in modern times, especially in the secular or reformed branches of Judaism, the bris has seen reinterpretations. Some families have replaced or supplemented it with a Britishalom, which is a non cutting covenant ceremony that still welcomes a child into the Jewish people, but skips the surgical part. It's a small but growing trend amongst some modern Jews who are rethinking the physical requirements and not necessarily wanting to put their 8 day old baby through that type of dramatic experience, but they still want to hold on to the spiritual symbolism. It's tough, but for the vast majority of Jewish communities around the world, including, I mean, orthodox, conservative, many reformed groups, the bris remains a key rite of passage. It's not seen as a tradition, but as a direct link back to Abraham, back to Sinai, back to the heart of the covenantal relationship with God, which, I mean, if you ask me, it's pretty cool if you think about how much has changed over the centuries. There are, you know, they still have these rituals that no matter what has happened, you know, I mean, the Jews have faced a ton of persecution and exile from many different nations. And despite all of that, they still continue the same rituals all the way back to Abraham. So shout out to the star boys, you know what I'm saying?

BT Dubs (20:17)

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Mark Yagnon (20:45)

And that is why some of these rituals are so important, why so many Jews hold on to these ideas so strongly. But they are not the only ones. When it comes to Islam, circumcision isn't presented with the same narrative drama that surrounds the Abrahamic covenant in Judaism. In fact, you won't find a direct command for it anywhere in the Quran. Abraham or Ibrahim is mentioned and regarded as a prophet in Islam, but there is no mention of the Abrahamic Covenant of Circumcision in the Quran. Yet despite that, circumcision, known in Arabic as Kitan, is practiced widely across the Muslim world and holds deep religious and cultural significance. So how did a practice that isn't explicitly commanded in Islam's holiest text become nearly universal amongst Muslims? The answer lies in the Sunnah, the lived example of the Prophet's life. The Sunnah is primarily known to us through the hadith literature, which consists of recorded sayings, actions and approvals attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. While the Quran is considered the highest authority, the hadith serve as an important companion, offering practical interpretations of how to live a faithful Muslim life. In several hadiths, circumcision is mentioned explicitly. One narration found in Sahih Muslim, a highly regarded hadith collection, quotes the Prophet as saying that five acts are a part of the of fitra, or the natural disposition of a human being, and circumcision is among them. This frames it not as some isolated custom, but is one of the core practices that helps align a person with their divinely intended nature. Now, Islamic law is complicated and there are loads of different schools of law in the religion. There are three main categories in Islamic law. Something that can be legally obligatory, known as wahib, recommended but not obligatory, which is mustachab, or something is permissible and allowed, simply not forbidden. And that is jaiz. Again, my apologies on the pronunciation. I did not grow up speaking Arabic, but I do enjoy a shawarma from my local truck from time to time. Some scholars say it's simply recommended or permissible, whereas others say it is necessary to be circumcised in order to participate in prayer or perform hajj, one of the five pillars of the relig religion, which is, you know, going to Mecca. Regardless of these legal differences, it is generally still commonly practiced in Islam and certainly not forbidden at all. Historically, circumcision in Islam has not been fixed to a single age. Unlike Judaism, where it is performed on the eighth day of life, no matter what, unless they're sick. Islam practices a more flexible kind of interpretation of the age requirement. In some cultures, circumcision is carried out in infancy or early childhood. In others, it becomes a rite of passage into adolescence, sometimes accompanied by elaborate ceremonies and celebrations and even public processions. In Ottoman times, royal circumcision festivals could last for days, featuring music, parades, feasts, and it all meant to mark a young prince's entrance into religious and social maturity. Here is an image of Princes Mustafa and Mehmed attended by a crowded procession as they are driven in a carriage to Topkapi palace to be circumcised. I mean, an insane life, right? That there's an entire Macy's Day parade with floats and glitter just for you to get your dong knocked off. I mean, shout out to them though, right? The person who performs the procedure can vary in Islam. In traditional contexts, a local practitioner, often someone trained informally through community knowledge, might carry it out. In most urban settings, especially across the Middle East. In North Africa, South Asia, it's more commonly done in a clinical setting setting by a medical professional. Despite the shift towards sterile environments and anesthesia, the spiritual framing of the practice often remains intact. Parents still see it as fulfilling the religious obligation and initiating their sons into the community. It's also worth noting how the practice carries a sense of continuity with earlier Abrahamic traditions. Many Muslims see themselves as heirs to the monotheistic path laid down by Abraham, or Ibrahim, as he's known in the faith, whom the Quran describes as a model of pure monotheism. Though the Quran does not detail the story of Abraham's circumcision as the Hebrew Bible does, Islamic tradition affirms that he was circumcised and considers it one of the ways he submitted fully to God's will. In that sense, every act of circumcision performed in a Muslim family can be seen as an echo of Abraham's obedience, even without a direct scriptural retelling. What's up, people? Quick announcement. If you are a fan of Camp Gagnon, or religion camp, I have great news, because we are dropping history camp. That's right. This is the channel we're going to be exploring the most interesting, fascinating, controversial topics from all time throughout all history. Right? You probably know about Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Nikola Tesla, interesting figures from history, and you probably learned about at school, and they were pretty boring. But not here. No. As you know, I was raised by a conspiracy theorist. So I'm going to be diving deep into all of the interesting, strange, occult and secretive societal relationships that all of these famous, influential men from our shared past have. So if you're interested, please go ahead and subscribe to the YouTube channel. It will be pinned in the description as well as the comments. And if you're on Spotify, this doesn't really apply to you, but these episodes will be dropping as well. Just go ahead and give us a high rating because it really helps the show. Alrighty. Don't skip forward guys, because I am on the road. World's fastest Ad read coming at you. I'm going to be at Portland, Oregon, Fort Worth, Texas, Austin, Texas, Stanford, Philly, Levittown, Chandler, Arizona, San Diego. I'm also going to be adding Toronto, Montreal as well as Washington D.C. and a bunch of other dates. You can get all that@the markagnon.com dates are in the description. Also in probably the comments of this episode. Go see me on the road. Come hang out. I'll be hanging out with everyone after the show. Come shake my hand, call me an idiot, whatever you want to do, I will be there. Additionally, I will be doing my one hour of stand up comedy. I'm very proud of this hour. I'm really excited to share with you guys and it would mean the world if everyone could come on out. And what do you wear to a show on the road? That's a great question. You can go to campgoods co. That's right. We got merch. We got Camp merch. We got hats, hoodies, T shirts. A lot of stuff is out of stock. Things have been selling like hotcakes. But we're going to be restocking everything in all the sizes so you can go there right now. Get all the merch. Get all the coolest clothing in the podcast game. We're going to be updating that site regularly and if you come out to a show, I'd love to see you sporting some of the threads that we got up online. I'll see you guys there. Let's get back to the show.

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Mark Yagnon (28:19)

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Mark Yagnon (28:45)

LinkedIn knows how so while Islam may not script the story of circumcision in the same detailed terms as Judaism, it has woven the practice deeply into the fabric of religious life. It's framed not just as a ritual, but a gesture of spiritual cleanliness and communal belonging to continuity with the prophets of old and connection to your people. Whether done quietly in a clinic or celebrated with drums and dancing in a. I mean, a parade in a tent or whatever that picture was, it is, you know, this practice of katan remains one of the most enduring ways that Islam shapes the body in service of the sacred. So if Judaism enshrines circumcision as the divine covenant between man and hashem above, and Islam carries it forward as an expression of Fitra and the prophetic tradition, where exactly does Christianity land? I mean, do Christians practice circumcision? Is it required? Am I going to hell? Or does something change along the way? The short answer is this. Most Christians don't see circumcision as mandatory, and in fact, many regard it as spiritually irrelevant or just unnecessary altogether. But the long answer, the one woven through centuries of theological debate and early church controversy, is way, way more interesting. To start, let's throw it back. Rewind to the earliest followers of Jesus. These are not Greeks or Romans. These were Jewish men and Jewish women who observed the law of Moses, including circumcision. Jesus himself was circumcised, and it's in the Bible. As recorded in the Gospel of Luke. On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, he was named Jesus. This moment places him firmly within the Jewish tradition. So then why didn't Christianity just continue on the same path? I mean, if God got circumcised, why wouldn't we? The answer comes down to a radical shift that unfolded after Jesus's death and resurrection. As his teachings spread beyond Jewish communities into the wider Greco Roman world. As Gentiles, also known as non Jews or just nations beyond Israel, began embracing the message of Jesus, a major debate emerged. Should these new converts be required to follow Jewish law? Specifically, do they got to be cut up? Can they eat shellfish. What are the rules with this? And this isn't a fringe issue. This is one of the first major theological disputes of the early church. We follow a Jewish God, right? This is a Jewish God become man. He lived a Jewish life. Do we continue to act under the Jewish law? In the Book of Acts, chapter 15, we're told that some believers were insisting that, quote, unless you are circumcised according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved. That led to the famous Council of Jerusalem. Essentially, this is one of the very earliest church conferences where apostles like Peter and Paul gathered to decide whether circumcision was necessary for salvation. Paul especially took a strong position against making it a requirement. In his letter to the Galatians, he writes with striking force. Mark my words. I, Paul, me this guy. Yeah. I tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Bars. Thanks, Paul. He argues that salvation comes through faith in Jesus, not through adherence to an old Jewish law. In another letter, he goes further. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commandment is what counts. I mean, if it sounds like it was written yesterday, right? Cut uncut. It doesn't mean shit, dude, do you like Jesus or not? That's what he said. First Corinthians 7:19, new Mark version. Paul's argument wasn't just theological. It was practical and also symbolic in a way. For Gentile men in the Roman Empire, circumcision was often associated with Jewish identity, and it carried a lot of social stigma. In some cities, it was even illegal to perform circumcision. So for Paul, insisting on circumcision would create this unnecessary barrier to faith. And worse, it would suggest that Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough. Right? Like, you're going to get to heaven and he's going to be like, all right, drop them. Let me see them drawers. No, Christ enough is what you know, declares salvation for mankind according to the Christian faith. This marked a definitive turning point. While Jewish Christians often continue the practice, culturally Gentile converts were not required to adopt it. And Christianity began to distance himself from the ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic Law, focusing instead on what it saw as their spiritual fulfillment in Christ. Circumcision, once the physical mark of the covenant, was replaced by this idea of circumcision of the heart. This is again what I spoke about, the metaphor for the internal transformation and spiritual renewal. As Paul puts it in Romans, a person is a Jew. Who is one inwardly. And circumcision is circumcision of the heart and by the Spirit, not by the written code. So what about Jesus himself? Did he ever weigh in on this strange, smelly issue? Interestingly, he doesn't make it a focal point of his teachings. There's no parable on the penis tips. In the Gospels, Jesus engages in debates about Sabbath laws and ritual cleanliness and the spirit of the law versus the letter, yada, yada. In other wor, should Jews follow the law strictly or should they try to embody the Spirit which underpins the law? Does it matter if you do every little thing but your heart's not in it, or vice versa? If you're doing your best, but you don't hit every little dot and every little T, does it, you know, really damn you. But he doesn't ever really deliver a direct teaching about circumcision. Perhaps that silence is all you need. His mission was not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. And in fulfilling it, it's reframed. And over time, this position became the dominant one in Christianity. Circumcision faded from theological significance and eventually from practice altogether. And by the 4th century, as Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire, the Church solidified its stance. Circumcision was no longer a requirement, and every baby boy cheered. In fact, some early church fathers, like Justin Martyr and Origen viewed it as something that was spiritually superseded by baptism, a new rite, you could say this new initiation that almost replaces circumcision. And today, circumcision amongst Christians is more likely to be influenced by, like, culture or medicine or just kind of tradition like, hey, my dad did it, than really by theology. Some Christian majority countries, like the United States, have high rates of circumcision due to secular reasons. Especially in Europe and Latin America, they have much lower rates. But in nearly all cases, it's not seen as a religious mandate. So in a world where Judaism still views circumcision as a sign of God's covenant and Islam sees it as a continuation of prophetic tradition, and Christianity takes a completely different path. It moved the symbol inward from flesh to spirit and redefined belonging not by what was done to the body, but by the condition of the heart, with.

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Mark Yagnon (36:30)

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Mark Yagnon (36:37)

But we are not done just yet because now we got to get into the alternative theories. If Judaism and Islam regards circumcision as a divine covenant and Christianity mostly left it behind, what if the story is actually deeper and older and maybe even more primal? What if circumcision wasn't just a matter of of scripture and tradition, but something born from the raw realities of human survival or a deep need to mark the body with meaning? I mean, long before modern medicine, some theorists suggested the circumcision may have begun as a practical solution to a simple hygiene. Now this theory is going to be the non spiritual ultimate pragmatic anthropological explanation. So just if you will, for a second while you're sitting there working at your job, imagine living in the hot dry sands of ancient Egypt or in the Levant. There are no showers, no soaps, antibacterial creams are gone, and in such a setting the foreskin could trap sweat, sand and some schmutz you gathered along the way, leading to irritation or even infection. And removing it may have been seen as a way to stay cleaner, healthier and more ritually pure. In fact, Egyptian priests were meticulous about personal cleanliness, shaving all body hair and performing ritual washes every day. Circumcision may have emerged within this broader cultural obsession with this physical spiritual purity sort of duality. But hygiene isn't the only lens which scholars view this practice. For many traditional societies, circumcision wasn't a one time medical procedure. It is this rite, a passage, a boundary between childhood and adulthood. In tribal communities from sub Saharan Africa to aboriginal Australians, circumcision often comes bundled with ceremonies, isolation, periods, intense instruction. It's painful, sure, but the pain serves a purpose and during it becomes a badge of honor, a way to prove one's readiness to join the world of men. The blood spilled isn't just physical, it's a symbolic message, a kind of sacrifice, a personal covenant. Not unlike Abraham's covenant with God, only carved out in cultural memory rather than scripture. You might think initiations like this are weird or strange, but we see it everywhere. Think about bloods and Crips being jumped into a set or a fraternity having ritualized hazing. Some anthropologists even argue the circumcision functions as a form of social control. When a group group requires its members to undergo a shared physical ordeal, especially one as intimate and irreversible as genital cutting, it creates a deep sense of belonging. You don't just think you're a part of a tribe, you feel it literally in your flesh. Like some fraternities will even do a brand on their arms. Think about that. Like you are branded forever. Your flesh has been changed. And that is going to bind you to your immediate group way more than anything else. And then there are some more speculative theories. Some have suggested that circumcision evolved as a way to potentially curb a male's sexuality, which is definitely something most religions have concerned themselves with over time. Others propose it began as a kind of blood substitute in sacrificial rituals, which you also see everywhere in the history of religion, where a genital cutting stood in for potentially more extreme offerings like human sacrifice. You want to offer a lamb to your God? Hey, how about we give you my foreskin? Just call it a deal. There's even the idea that circumcision originally mimicked the appearance of an erect penis. This is crazy. Like basically that by exposing the head, it signals readiness for adulthood, virility, dominance. Are these theories proven? No, not really. I mean, they're best seen as possibilities, interesting explanations, attempts to understand why so many different societies spread out across continents and eras independently arrive at the same strange, specific act. Why cut away something so sensitive, so personal, unless you know it means something more. One little detail that I forgot to add to the research until the very end is a little anecdote about a guy named John Harvey Kellogg. Yes, the same Kellogg that is connected to our serials. Part of the family is known as this guy John Harvey. And he was a doctor in the 19th century that basically led a crusade against self pollution. Aka, you know, smacking the top, aka choking your chicken, aka whacking it. Aka catching a jerk, you know, I mean, aka getting the goop out. Anyway, he basically went on this long anti masturbation crusade and wrote in his book Plain Facts for Old and Young, he believed that removing the foreskin or causing prolonged pain would reduce sexual desire in boys. He said, quote, a remedy which is almost always successful in small boys, circumcision. The operation should be performed without it. Administering anesthetic as the brief pain will have a salutary effect upon the mind. His medical rationale was that exposing the penis would decrease sensitivity, thus stopping masturbation, thus leading to purity across the land. And while Kellogg did propose the painful and invasive methods, including tying and cages and acid on female genitalia and all these other things as treatment for masturbation, he did not advocate for circumcision for all males, only those he deemed as chronic ejaculators. His extreme views were not mainstream medical advice. At the time. Leading proponents of circumcision in the US Included figures like Jonathan Hutchinson, whose motivations were more around hygiene, more reasonable stuff. And a lot of people believe that this guy invented Corn Flakes to curb libido. That is not true. Kellogg aimed to promote bland foods generally. His brother, William Kellogg turned this into the commercial cereal that we eat today. And there's no evidence that Kellogg specifically created Corn Flakes with any type of masturbation on the mind. That is simply an interesting, you know, successful family coincidence. So there you have it. That is circumcision across the three Abrahamic religions. It's interesting. What if the benefits of circumcision are practical, right? Like, what if there's a hygienic reason, but religions were on it super early and they were smart enough to just make it some type of sacred covenant so that people continue to do it in order to promote the survival of their tribe? Who knows how much of religious belief is getting us to care about things that are important, but adding on some type of religious bow on top to, you know, keep people from deviating, who knows? If something is sacred and it's healthy for you, how different are those two things in the first place? I'd love to know what you guys think. Drop a comment. Are you part of the uncut gems? Are you part of the, you know, the. The bald headed warriors? Christos? Are you. Are you chopped up? I am not. You're not? No, I'm Greek. Dude, have we talked about this maybe? No freaking way. We got two foreskins in the tent right now that got me freaking bricked up. But let me know what you guys think. Drop a comment. I'd love to know. And if you have ideas for future videos, please drop those as well. And of course, like I said, I am simply a Catholic man. I did not grow up Muslim. I did not grow up Jewish. So if I missed anything, if I got anything wrong, please correct me in the comments. But be nice about it, okay? I read them all and I'm very sensitive. I'm just a boy. Anyway, this has been another episode of Religion Camp. I appreciate and love you all and I will see you next Sunday with another episode. Peace be with you. If you've made it to the end of this episode. You are clearly someone who understands that beneath every historical event lies a deep, deeper truth waiting to be uncovered. You're the type of person who knows that real history is more fascinating than any fiction, and we deeply appreciate that about you. I'll be honest, that's exactly why I personally invite you to sign up for Today in History, our free newsletter that goes beyond the surface of historical events. We dive into the stories that textbooks never told you, the secrets that challenge the course of nations, and the forgotten tales that determine deserve to be remembered. Let's continue this journey of discovery together. Take the conversation from your headphones into your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description Today in History because every day holds a secret waiting to be revealed. Thank you for being part of our historical journey. We'll see you next time.