Podcast Summary: Camp Gagnon
Episode: The JINN Who Became SATAN | Iblis Explained
Host: Mark Gagnon
Date: October 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Camp Gagnon dives deep into the Islamic conception of Satan—known as Iblis—exploring how his character and role differ from the Christian and Jewish notions of the devil. Host Mark Gagnon, joined by his friend Christos, discusses Iblis’s origin, his tragic fall, the ongoing debates about whether he is an angel or a jinn, and how Islamic tradition interprets his refusal to bow to Adam. The episode draws on theology, folklore, mysticism, and comparative religion to unpack 1400 years of debate and spiritual insight around Iblis and the problem of evil.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Iblis in Islam vs. Christianity

• Iblis is Not the Christian Devil:

  • Iblis is not a fallen angel waging war against God, as in Christianity. Instead, he is “something stranger and maybe more complicated and probably more tragic” (00:11).
  • In Islam, Iblis is distinguished from Christian Satan by both origin (possibly jinn, not angel) and his means of opposition (sneaky deception, not outright war).

• Unique Branding of Islam’s Concept of ‘Reverting’:

  • "Most religions, you convert. Islam, you revert. Because all mankind is already Muslim. You just don’t know it. Wallahi. That’s what they say… it’s just, it’s just good branding.” (04:07)

2. Iblis’s Nature and Mission

• Role as the Adversary:
  • “He’s the hidden voice that whispers evil thoughts. He’s the master of the lies, source of all bitterness.” (06:35)
• Functions:
  • Iblis inspires pride, jealousy, greed, and disrupts worship through “waswasa”—evil whispers.
  • He can “become invisible or look like any person, except he cannot take the form of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)” (10:34).

3. The Story of Iblis’s Rebellion

• Quranic Narrative:

  • God creates Adam and commands angels to bow; Iblis refuses, claiming superiority because he’s made from fire whereas Adam is from clay (54:12).
  • Iblis is cast out but asks for time “to roam around earth until the Day of Judgment” to mislead humans (57:50).
  • Notable Quote:
    • “God cast Iblis out and put a curse on him. But before departing, Iblis made a request… He wanted to roam around earth until the Day of Judgment... God agrees to this request… Iblis declared his goal to basically mislead and destroy all human beings except for those that God protects.” (57:50)

• Pride (Takabur) as Root Sin:

  • “Pride causes individuals to elevate their own judgment above divine command… This leads to rebellion against God’s will.” (59:40)

4. Theological Debates: Angel or Jinn?

• Quranic Ambiguity:

  • Surah 15:31: “So the angels prostrated all of them entirely except Iblis.”
  • Surah 7:12: “You created me from fire”; Jinn are created from fire.
  • Surah 18:50: “…Except for Iblis, he was of the jinn…”

• Major Interpretations:

  • Iblis as Jinn: Most modern Muslims uphold this view.
    • “If you asked an average Muslim, they would say that Iblis was belonging to the jinn, not the angels.” (01:18:45)
  • Early Debates:
    • Some classical scholars (Al-Tabari) argued Iblis was an angel, perhaps a military commander, later prideful and rebellious.
    • Some considered angels and jinn as overlapping categories, leading to centuries of debate.
    • “Some Muslims appear to have accepted the possibility that Iblis could be both an angel and jinn, or just an angel, just a jinn.” (01:24:32)

5. Rituals & Responses to Iblis

• “Stoning the Devil” in Hajj:

  • Pilgrims symbolically stone pillars representing Iblis, recalling Abraham’s resistance to Iblis’s temptations (28:00).
  • “This ritual creates a powerful communal experience of rejecting evil…” (30:20)

• Seeking Refuge Prayer (Ta’awuz):

  • "I seek refuge in God from the devil." (29:35)
  • Recited before reading Quran or beginning important work.

6. General Conceptions of Evil and Free Will

• Responsibility for Evil:

  • Iblis tempts but “doesn’t cause evil to exist outright. Actually, the Quran’s version of his downfall shows that God gave Iblis permission to test humans.” (54:59)
  • “Evil exists not because God can't stop it, but because it serves a divine purpose in the overall plan of creation.” (56:36)

• Dual Causation:

  • Both natural and spiritual causes exist for events, as illustrated in the story about missing prayer because “Satan had potentially urinated in the man’s ears” (19:41).

• Free Will and Predestination:

  • The tension between fatalism (as in the early Jabria school) and mainstream Islamic assertion of free will and moral responsibility; “mainstream Islamic teaching… accepted the idea that people have free will for God to punish Iblis for his choices, and ultimately all people… are to blame for their sinful actions.” (01:35:41)

7. Mystical and Alternative Views

• Sufi Perspective (Al-Hallaj):

  • Argued Iblis’s rebellion was tragic but rooted in extreme love for God—“his refusal was actually an act of devotion and theological consistency.” (01:26:45)
  • “Al Hallaj didn’t think Iblis’s punishment was unfair. He just simply saw it as the cost of being absolutely loyal.” (01:27:07)
  • Mainstream scholars rejected and even executed proponents of these radical views.

• Iblis as Unwitting Servant:

  • Some mystics suggest evil and Iblis act as divine tools for testing human faith (01:28:00).

8. Iblis in Folklore and the Arts

• Inspiring Art and Poetry:
  • Poets like Abu Nawas invoked Iblis for inspiration:
    • “Obey your Uncle Iblis. To do so is your religious duty. And perfect your unbelief. Commit no minor sin. If you must sin, make it a great one.” (01:37:30)
  • Arab folklore often attributed exceptional artistic and musical talents to pacts with Iblis or shayateen, paralleling Western notions of the “deal with the devil.”

9. Comparisons to Other Traditions

• Parallels with Christianity and Judaism:

  • Pre-Islamic Christian writings also contain stories of Satan refusing to bow to Adam due to pride (e.g., Cave of Treasures; 01:04:50).
  • Differences: In Islam, no serpent imagery, and Adam's responsibility is more direct.
  • “Satan is a proud creature who refuses to bow to Adam and ultimately faces God’s punishment. And there are many parallels that exist in basically all the Abrahamic religions. That pride is fundamental to Satan's nature.” (01:10:55)

• Linguistic Origins:

  • The term “Iblis” possibly traces to the Greek “diablos”—but etymology is debated (01:06:50).

10. Modern Interpretations

• Iblis as Psychological Metaphor:
  • Some contemporary thinkers interpret Iblis as a symbol of ego, pride, and inner rebellion (01:41:40).
  • The narrative “provides a framework for understanding these choices in a really spiritually significant way.” (01:43:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Conversion and Brand Identity:
  “That is one of the best branding things that Islam has, is the revert... Because all mankind is already Muslim. You just don't know it. Wallahi. That's what they say...”
  — Mark (04:07)

• On Pride and Sin:
  "Pride causes individuals to elevate their own judgment above divine command, above God, which is ultimately not submitting, which is the entire purpose of being Muslim in the first place."
  — Mark (59:40)

• On Competing Theories:
  "If you asked an average Muslim, they would say that Iblis was belonging to the jinn, not the angels."
  — Mark (01:18:45)

• Sufi Radicalism:
  "Al Hallaj didn't think Iblis's punishment was unfair. He just simply saw it as the cost of being absolutely loyal."
  — Mark (01:27:07)

• On Artistic Inspiration:
  "Obey your Uncle Iblis. To do so is your religious duty. And perfect your unbelief. Commit no minor sin. If you must sin, make it a great one."
  — Quoting Abu Nawas (01:37:30)

• Reflecting on Cross-Religious Parallels:
  “I think it’s important to note that we have more in common than we have differences.”
  — Christos (01:46:53)

Key Timestamps

• 00:11 – Introduction to Iblis and distinction from Satan in other traditions.
• 04:07 – Discussion of Islam’s concept of “reverting.”
• 06:35 – Defining Iblis’s role as adversary.
• 10:34 – On Iblis’s abilities in Islamic belief.
• 19:41 – Story of Iblis disrupting prayer; dual causality in Islamic thought.
• 28:00 – Hajj ritual of stoning the devil.
• 29:35 – The ta’awuz prayer (“I seek refuge…”).
• 54:12 – The story of Iblis’s refusal to bow.
• 57:50 – Iblis's request to delay punishment.
• 59:40 – Connection of pride to sin in Islamic theology.
• 01:04:50 – Early Christian stories of angels refusing to bow to Adam.
• 01:18:45 – Modern consensus: Iblis as jinn.
• 01:24:32 – Early debates over angel/jinn distinction.
• 01:26:45 – Sufi and mystical interpretations.
• 01:35:41 – Philosophical debates on free will and predestination.
• 01:37:30 – Abu Nawas and Iblis in poetry.
• 01:41:40 – Iblis as a metaphor for psychological struggle.
• 01:43:02 – Universal significance of the Iblis narrative.
• 01:46:53 – Final thoughts on interfaith similarities.

Tone and Presentation

Mark Gagnon approaches the topic with curiosity, humility (“I’m not an expert… I just like to do research.” 05:18), occasional irreverence, and a strong sense of respect for the diversity of religious belief. The discussion is rich but accessible, full of comparative insights and analogies to Western traditions, aiming to bridge understanding for listeners from varied backgrounds. The conversational and sometimes humorous tone makes the theology approachable and invites further discussion and correction from the audience.

Summary Takeaway

This episode offers a rigorous yet engaging tour of who Iblis is in Islamic thought: far more than a “Muslim Satan,” he is a complex symbol of pride, free will, temptation, and divine testing whose story has shaped Muslim understandings of evil, agency, and salvation for over a millennium. Whether as jinn or angel, rebel or unwitting instrument of God’s plan, Iblis stands as a paradoxical figure—hated, pitied, feared, debated, and even immortalized in art and folklore. The episode ultimately underscores the nuanced and shared struggles in all Abrahamic faiths regarding evil, pride, and the limits of human choice.