Loading summary
Transcript14 lines
- [00:01]
Commercial Announcer
Toast the holidays in a new way and raise a glass of Rumchata, a delicious creamy blend of horchata with rum. Enjoy it over ice or in your coffee. Rumchata. Your holiday cocktails just got sweeter. Tap or click the banner for more. Drink responsibly. Caribbean rum with real dairy cream. Natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof. Copyright 2025, Agave Loco Brands, Pojoaquee, Wisconsin. All rights reserved. So good, so good, so good.
- [00:32]
Give big, save big with RAC Friday deals at Nordstrom Rack. For a limited time, take an extra 40% off red tag clearance for everyone on your list. All sales final and restrictions apply. So bring your gift list and your wish list to your nearest Nordstrom Rack today.
- [00:49]
Mark Yagnon
Most of us think we know what happened to the Library of Alexandria. One massive fire on a dramatic night and the ancient world's greatest knowledge, one up in smoke. But the real story isn't exactly like that. Because the Library didn't burn down all at once. It died slowly, across multiple centuries, hit by politics, religion, ego. And piece by piece, it fell apart. The Lighthouse of Alexandria, the philosophers, the knowledge, everything that made Alexandria the center of the ancient world vanished. This is the real story behind the burning of the Library at Alexandria. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, people? Welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Yagon and thank you for joining me in my tent, where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from around the world. From all time, forever. Yes, this is the place where we get to the bottom of everything that's been going on. Now, of course, the show's not possible without you, the good people at home, and also that my good pal, Christos. What's up? I didn't even ask you. Nothing, dude. Okay. Today was going to be the day where it was gonna freaking. We're gonna get into it. I was gonna say, you know what? Scrap the script. Me and Criso just gonna get into it for two and a half hours. But you just ruined it. Mark, if I may, I just want to apologize to absolutely everybody for what I said on Religion Camp. And you could go check that out. Wait, what you say on Religion? You don't want to know. No. Did you say something bad? I said I was the first best Christos. People weren't happy about that. Oh, man. You are a heretic. I yield the floor. That's great. Nope, you are. Yeah, I'll forgive you. You know who won't? The fans. The Commenters. God will forgive you, but you know who won't? Oh, man, you put yourself in a real pickle here. But you know what? Today we're not talking about Jesus Christo or bald Cristo. We're talking about the Library of Alexandria. Now, I had a guest on this program, our pal Joseph Manning over at Yale, great guy. And we were talking about the Library of Alexandria. He's basically an expert in like, you know, the Hellenistic period of kind of like, you know, Greece and Rome type vibes. And he was telling me, like, yeah, the Library of Alexandria. Again, it's debated. There's speculation on both sides, but most people don't think that it actually burned. And I was like, hold on a second, what does that mean? And he was like, well, what actually happened is kind of more interesting. And he broke it down for me and I was like, you know what? This would be a great topic for an episode. And here we are. So what is it? What is the Library of Alexandria? Why is it in Alexandria? Who would go there? What kind of texts were in it? And was it burned? Was it kind of burned? Was it just forgotten? Where did it all go? Well, we're gonna figure it out. So the city of Alexandria is probably a good place to start. It doesn't just happen, like by accident. Okay? It is designed and, you know, kind of geographically predisposed to be the smartest place on Earth. So ancient writers claimed that Alexander the Great chose the spot because he kept dreaming of a strange island named Pharos, a future site of the famous Lighthouse of Alexandria, also known as one of the seven wonders of the Ancient world. So basically, Alexander the Great is going through, you know, conquering the whole world. And he goes through Egypt in 331 BC. He doesn't stay long, but he does something that changes the ancient world. He picks this spot on the Mediterranean coastline and says, we're building the city right here. Yes, we're going to make this place a massive, you know, coastal town. And so in that place, he picks it for a few reasons. Obviously it's good for, you know, supply lines and trade lines for his war effort. And, you know, it's perfectly located between Greece, Africa, Africa, the Middle east, and it's a perfect place to create this bustling metropolis. And like with most cities, when you have a bunch of people from all around the world coming in, you get a lot of new ideas and with that, some new knowledge. So it was said that during the construction of the city, his engineers didn't have enough chalk to actually outline the perimeter of the city. So they just used white flower, which is kind of funny because when they put the white flower down, like, literally, like, like flour you would, like, bake with. So when they put it down, birds immediately swarmed and ate the outline of the city. And this made the Egyptian priests take it as a sign that the people from everywhere would come to Alexandria to feed. So even just off rip, they were like, oh, this is. This is not what we thought it was going to be. And it wasn't. So the layout that the city was and how they traced it, it wasn't random either. So Alexandria is one of the first cities in the ancient world to be built on a grid system. So you. If you live in New York or any other major city, maybe you've heard of the grid system. But basically it has two massive boulevards that cross at perfect right angles, and there's these massive streets that are wide enough for, like, chariots to pass, you know, by each other and not, you know, collide. And they literally were doing, like, ancient urban planning on a level that doesn't show up again until, you know, Europe centuries later. So around eight years after the construction of the city started, Alexander the Great dies. But the city already had a blueprint that was so detailed that it even listed where, like, the statues for the harbor would go. Like, everything down to, like, the little flourishes and details was all worked out. So although Alexander the Great never lived to see this creation actually flourish, his successor, Ptolemy the First, did. So who is Ptolemy? Well, he is the founder of the Ptolemaic dynasty. And he wasn't just trying to, like, rule the land, right? He wanted Egypt to be this intellectual capital of the entire world. So he started building this insane thing, okay? This is a library that tried to collect every written work ever made. And no, this is not an exaggeration. He literally, like the way Bezos is like, dude, I want to make this store that sells everything. We're going to sell cat food and books and cars. He was like, I want to library that has every book ever written ever. And at this point, it's not that impossible to do, right? We're talking, like 320 BC vibes. So, yeah, you know, just how many books are. There's like, 10 books. You get a library of 10 books, right? Is that crazy? Nope. There's some books in there, bro. Easy. So he was like, this is time. We're going to do it. And the Library of Alexandria as an idea is born. Now, this guy Ptolemy is an interesting dude, basically, for general context, Alexander the Great cuts through the whole world and he's, you know, eaten up land. He goes to Egypt, founds Alexandria and just basically we're going to build up this little town. It's like a real village. Let's get it popping. And then when Alexander the Great is basically on the way out, he gives control to Ptolemy. And Ptolemy is one of his top generals. Now Ptolemy basically controls this Egyptian, you know, region and is really focused on Alexandria as this hub for commerce and intellectualism and at a certain point even declares himself Pharaoh Ptolemy. So you can also think of this in Egyptian history. Like this is basically the end of the new kingdom. And it's kind of like the Egyptian, you know, sort of story is kind of, you know, going away at this point. The pyramids are like 2000 years old or something like that. It's like insane. So matter of fact, Cleopatra, if you're familiar with her, she'll be relevant and you know, not, not too long. She's actually a descendant directly of Ptolemy. Just kind of an interesting detail. So basically, Ptolemy wanted to build something insane. He wanted to build a library that was so big that it collected every written work ever made. Yes. Not an exaggeration. He, that's what he wanted. Library with every book in it. Now keep in mind, this is like, you know, 3, 20 something is bc not that many books, right? It's probably 100 books. Like, how many books could there be? This is not, I don't know really the answer. But not as many as today. But regardless, it's not the easiest task to collect every written work ever. Again, there's no printing press. Every book is basically hand scribed by a dude or woman and put down into this book. And then they have to, you know, somehow get it. Books are expensive and it's a very difficult task to actually store all these books in a library. But Ptolemy was an ambitious man, so he starts building this library. Now the library itself is not a small building, okay? It, you know, wasn't waiting for scholars to bring scrolls and it wasn't waiting for these authors to write, you know, books and stuff. The people of Alexandria literally went out and got the books themselves. They wanted the text. So like every ship coming into the harbor in Alexandria was searched. Like, literally there was like, this is like a gang of nerds. Like, they were like, hey, if you want to come do trade in our city, you gotta, you gotta pay us a little piece. And they're like, money. They're like, nah, bro, Mark Twain, like, they Wanted just copies. So any scrolls that were on board were taken to the library and copied by scribes. But. But get this. The original texts were kept, and then the copies were sent back to the owners. Some gang. That's fire. And the people of Alexandria believed the originals were, you know, basically just too valuable to give up. They're like, we want the OG you guys can have the copy. Sorry. And the copies were good. Again, these scribes were, you know, pretty professional. But regardless, they kept the OG stored away. They even send agents across the Mediterranean with some cash to go buy up scrolls. They're going to Syria, Rhodes, even at certain points, going to, like, Persia and basically, like, what y' all reading about? And then took that shit, brought it back. The king sent letters to other rulers asking for, you know, rare texts and philosophical works and local religious myths, and anything that they could get their hands on was going into that library. Little fun fact, the city of Athens actually loaned the city of Alexandria works by, like, Sophocles. What's the other one? Euripides. And then I feel like there was, like, another dude. But Alexandria kept the originals and then returned the copies like they always had. And it just goes to show that even, like, a big city like Athens wasn't safe from this kind of, like, you know, little fugazi act. So the building that housed all this knowledge was part of a larger complex known as the Muzion. Is that how you pronounce it in Greek? Muzion? Moussillo. Moussillo. Oh.
- [11:43]
Commercial Announcer
When the holidays start to feel a bit repetitive, reach for a Sprite Winter Spiced cranberry and put your twist on tradition. A bold cranberry and winter spice flavor fusion. Sprite Winter Spice Cranberry is a refreshing way to shake things up this sipping season, and only for a limited time. Sprite, obey your thirst.
- [12:08]
This message may be shocking to many millennials. If you are one, you might want to sit down. Right now, loads of people are searching the following on Depop. Low rise jeans, halter top, velour, tracksuit, puka shell necklace, disc belt. You likely placed these in the dark of your closet in 2004, never to be seen again. But if you can find it in yourself to dust them off, there are a lot of people who will give you money for them. Sell on Depop, where taste recognizes taste.
- [12:38]
Mark Yagnon
And it was Eschylus, also the Eschylus that was the other guy that they were on loan from. So literally, Athens is like, hey, here's some philosophical works like take a copy, send it back they're like, yeah, we'll send something back. Psych. So this library, you know, this. This knowledge house is a part of this bigger complex, okay? And this is literally where the word museum comes from. You know, musion is like the OG word, but the current word is museo. Museo. And it's not a museum in the way we think about it now. It was more like a research institute. Slash, like, hangout. Slash, like men's, like, you know, club where dudes get to, like, chop it up. So if you walk through, you would see botanical gardens, you'd see a lecture hall, you'd see, like, an observatory. You see a dissecting room for surgeons, you'd see, like, housing for scholars. You'd see a dining room and a tutoring space. It's more like college vibes. But again, like, the concept of college is not really developed in, like, a really robust way at this point. But it's like an ancient, like, MIT or Stanford or some. Okay. Now, what made Alexandria different from other ancient libraries is not just the size, but, like, the model itself. So most ancient libraries, like the one at Pergamon or like, the smaller collections in, like, Athens, they're either privately owned by really wealthy people or they are temple libraries that are focused on religious text. Because, again, at the time, like, to maintain and collect a library, it was extremely expensive. And governments and, like, academic institutions were not doing it at scale. They didn't really have the money. So who had the money? Rich people, the elites of a society, and the religious people, the church, the temples, the priestly class. So as a result, that's the only type of place that you were going to get a library. So these are the kind of places that you would, you know, store scrolls that maybe, like, you copied or you wrote, and then you hope scholars come visit it, and then they read your stuff, and then you kind of. You can make a name for yourself. So what happens in Alexandria with the Moussion actually just changes this completely. It was an active research institute with, like, a salary structure and, like, collaborative workspaces and projects being looked at by multiple different scholars at the same time. And they're not just, like, reading existing knowledge. They are taking these old scrolls and these old texts, deliberating on it, writing new knowledge, and then putting that back into the library collection. So they're actually creating new ideas from the library. So at Pergamon, if you've heard of that, you might find, like, a mathematician working alone on, like, a geometric problem. But Alexandria, at Alexandria, that same mathematician would be collaborating with an astronomer and then like an engineer, then maybe like a geographer comes by or like a cartographer, and they're like, all talking, and then they get new ideas and develop entirely new fields of research. So, for example, the botanical gardens. This is, I think, really interesting because you see botanical gardens and you're like, oh, this is like a pretty thing to walk through. And that may be true, but the original purpose for many of these botanical gardens, specifically at research institutes and colleges, is, is that they are used for medicine. Yes. Medical researchers are using it to experiment with plants while working, you know, alongside scholars who are like, actually translating medical texts from, like, Babylon and from India, and then they're translating them into the local language. And then they're now experimenting with these ancient texts and creating, you know, different medicines and tinctures and stuff like that. And this is why so many breakthrough discoveries came out of Alexandria, right? When you put all these different specialists from all these different fields in the same building with, you know, unlimited resources in, you know, to an extent, like, they have money and pensions and salaries and there's no day job to worry about, innovation will just naturally happen, right? You put a bunch of smart people in the same room, stuff starts to pop off. So Alexandria ultimately becomes the most diverse city on earth. Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Jews, Nubians, Syrians, Romans, people from India all coming together, living side by side. It's. It's like the New York City of the ancient world. And that's why its destruction is so crazy, right? Like, remember, the library didn't vanish in just one big blaze. Generally speaking, this is how most historians look at it. To understand how it died, you need to understand how politics, war, religion, and some bad luck actually pulls it apart over the centuries. So if this library at Alexandria, or the. The Muon as we refer to it, had a big moment, you know, what would that be? The closest thing we could probably point to is in 48 BC, during Julius Caesar's civil war in Egypt. So Caesar is stuck in Alexandria fighting against the forces that are actually loyal to the Egyptian king, Ptolemy xiii. You remember that name, Ptolemy. So this is literally a direct descendant from Ptolemy the first, the guy who kind of, you know, took control over it after Alexander the Great. His now descendant, Ptolemy the 13th, is the Egyptian king fighting against Julius Caesar. Now, at this point, this is in Cleopatra's era, okay? And Julius Caesar is outnumbered, outmaneuvered, and boxed in. So Caesar made a move that he is, you know, famous for. He burned his own ships in the harbor to prevent the enemies from capturing them. And he did something similar to this in the Battle of Massilia. But at Massilia, he burned a captured enemy fleet rather than his own personal fleet. But the logic is basically still the same, right? If the enemy, you know, steals it, then let's just destroy it first, because we're going to lose it either way. But at least they're not going to get access to, you know, our weapons, our food, our resources, anything that we have on there, etc. Now, they never anticipated what would happen next. The fire spreads from the docks to nearby warehouses that are holding grain and also some scrolls. Now, we don't know how many scrolls are destroyed in this specific fire, but the philosopher Seneca, also a great Stoic, shout out. Seneca claimed 40,000 scrolls are destroyed. Plutarch says large quantities are destroyed. And modern historians argue maybe 70,000 are destroyed, some fewer. But some even argue that maybe no scrolls are destroyed. But regardless, it seems that there's some number between, you know, 10,000 and 70,000 scrolls that are. Are destroyed in this one burning of the ships by Julius Caesar. But the important part here isn't the number. It's that the fire probably hit a storage area for scrolls, not the main library building where all the academics and researchers are actually working. So you can think of this as, like, losing, like, your backup key, right? Or, like, I don't know, like, it sucks, right? But it's. It's not the worst thing, right? You have another. Your second favorite pair of shoes you step in. Dog poop sucks. But, you know, it's not your. It's not the best ones here, okay? But here's a detail that most people don't realize. The main library most likely survived that fire. Now, we know this because scholars kept writing and referencing it for centuries after this event occurs, right? The fire was bad. Julius Caesar's fire was not a good thing. There's war happening in Alexandria. That's never good, but it's not the end. The real damage actually comes from something you could say is worse than fire, and that is neglect and apathy and budget cuts and maybe worst of all, political chaos. So when Caesar leaves Egypt and Cleopatra took power with Mark Antony, the library is still there. But Egypt is no longer this stable intellectual kingdom that's, you know, has all this, you know, academic sort of, you know, heavy power in it. It's completely changed. So starting in the first century bc, Alexandria becomes a battleground. Everyone wants it. So you have the Romans, Egyptian elites, foreign influences. You. There's, like, religious movements that are creating turmoil Even internally within the city. And then economic instability because of all of this, that just exacerbates the problem. Now at this point, the building is still there, the students are still there. But the, like, I don't even know how you describe it. Like the zhuzh, like the, the je ne sais quoi, the it, the X factor, it's not there in the building in the way that it was, you know, 200 years before that. So the Ptolemaic system was basically a royal research grant on, you know, steroids. So like the scholars, they didn't pay for housing, they didn't pay for food, they didn't pay for like research materials. Literally is covered by the king. But this isn't charity, this is, this is politics. He's not doing this for like the good of mankind. He's doing it because he wants to brain drain every country in the region and create all the smartest people in one place. So the Ptolemies use the library. Like we would use a space program, okay, to show the world how advanced and powerful they are. Foreign officials would tour the facility and see scholars working and then go home and be like, dude, the Egyptians are so smart. The people in Alexandria are legit geniuses and that reputation was preceding them. So when Rome takes control, that incentive is no longer there. Romans had their own intellectual traditions and they didn't really see this reason to subsidize, you know, Greek scholars in Egypt, they were just like, this is not like the Roman Empire is not an intellectual empire. This is an empire built on war and battle and conquest. Right? The new Roman administrators looked at the budget that, you know, this region is getting allocated, that Alexandria is eating up all this money and they're like, why are we paying for this? What is, what, what is happening? So without the royal backing, the Moussion couldn't maintain this massive staff. They couldn't send agents to go out and buy scrolls around the Mediterranean. They can't, you know, go to scholars in Persia and be like, hey, we're going to give you a comfortable life and you can do all the research you want if you just live in Alexandria. They didn't have the money and they couldn't attract the best minds in the region. So then Alexandria also became known as a place for riots. So Greek pagan practices and Jewish scholarship and early Christian groups, you know, when they're all coming together, they're also, they're sharing all these ideas and they're sharing all the stuff. But then they're now clashing and this wasn't like the calm, intellectual city that it was, you know, a few centuries before. So by the time we get into the second and third centuries A.D. d, parts of this library and this sort of academic complex are still existing, but it's not the beating heart of knowledge that it once was. And you can see how the money goes away, the people go away, the magic is getting lost. And you can see more or less the pattern that this is going on. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I have a story to tell you. Fun fact. After you have a child, your testosterone naturally goes down. It's a way for you to, like, become, like, more empathetic and more in touch and, like, protect your kid and stuff. And I didn't really believe that. But then I had a baby, like, a year ago, and I started to feel it around. Like, three o' clock would roll around and I would get more tired. I wasn't really sleeping that great because we just had a baby. And I was, like, drinking more coffee, and I started getting anxious, and I was like, this is not working. I was like, should I just do trt? Like, I know a lot of guys in the hit, like, 30, 40, they're just ripping TRT. So I was looking into it. I was like, ah, it affects your fertility. I might want to have some more kids. So I was like, all right, there must be a way I can do this that's more natural and just, like, support my testosterone. So I hit my buddy David, who does the ads, and I was like, is there anyone that's out there doing any of this kind of stuff? And he was like, oh, you should check out Mars Men, Mars Men. Right here is a natural testosterone booster. This is going to just basically support your testosterone using a bunch of supplements and natural ingredients that are going to make your testosterone be what it's supposed to be. Okay, don't even think about TRT because again, it can be overkill. You're going to be injecting your body, and it can also shut down your body's, like, natural production of testosterone. But using this stuff. Tongat, ali, shilajit, vitamin D, zinc, boron, all the natural stuff that is going to be supporting your healthy T levels and helping your stamina and giving you more energy throughout the day. And honestly, it's great. I've only been trying it for a couple weeks now, and I want to do a before and after testosterone test and see how much more my testosterone boosted. 91% of guys reported feeling higher energy and the reviews on this are absolutely amazing. It's made in the USA, third party tested and there is a 90 day money back guarantee. So there's literally no risk. You can try it for, you know, three months and if it's not for you, they will get you your money back. And for a limited time, the listeners of this program, this is a crazy deal. By the way, most brands don't do this. You're going to get 60% off for life and three free gifts. When you use the code camp@ Mengotomars.com that is Men M E N go to Mars M A R S dot com and use the code camp at checkout and after your purchase they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please say that you heard about them from Camp Gagnon, that we sent you there. It really helps us out. Marsman is great. It is a natural support for your testosterone. Look, you can buy all of these, you know, supplements separately or you can just go to Mars men and get it all in one case. Now let's get back to the show. Now something that most people don't know is that Alexandria had two major library buildings. So you have the great library, which is the original mousion. This is like the OG and then you have the Serapeum library. Now the Serapeum Library is the second library that was built a little bit later. And the Serapeum was built in honor of the God Serapis. Now Serapis is a deity that was created by the Ptolemies to unite Greek and Egyptian religions. And this, you know, secondary library was located on a hill called the Acropolis of Alexandria. So why build another library? Well, that's because the first library was so full they needed more space. So the Serapium became more like a public library. Right? You can think of the, you know, the first grand library is like this is where the scholars and the academics go. But the Serapium is, hey, the average person, the average merchant. The more middle class people can kind of come through and take a scroll, read through it, put it back. It's more accessible, more used, more connected to the city. And what's ironic is that the second library is the one that we know the most about because its destruction is unfortunately very well documented. So by the late 4th century, Alexandria is a hot spot for religious tension. Now you got to think when Alexandria is formed, there is no Jesus yet. And then we hit like one AD we get Jesus type vibes, right? Some people say it's like actually later, like two or three, but Regardless, timeline, okay? So by the fourth century, Christianity is now taking hold in the region and it's gotten more popular and these pagan temples are losing power. And then there is a bishop named Theophilus who is aggressively trying to shut down all the pagans. So by 391 A.D. this conflict reaches a breaking point. And where does it happen? At the Serapeum. This is a now like a series of street fights that erupt between, you know, Christian groups and pagan resistance groups that are the like, basically resisting the destruction of their places of worship. And these fights turn into bigger fights, they turn into riots. And then during the violence, several Christians are reportedly killed, causing many pagans to fortify themselves inside the Serapeum and basically, you know, turn this library into a like, defensive stronghold, right? They kind of just like camp out branch Davidian style. So when news of the fighting reaches the Emperor Theodosius I, he issues a ruling that any remaining pagan temples need to be shut down and all of their idols are destroyed. So with this authorization, Theophilus, the bishop and the Alexandrian authorities go to the Serapium to end the standoff. So inside the library you have the pagans that are basically fortified and eventually they surrender. And, you know, there's basically a deal that's brokered amongst the, you know, Theophilus and the other Alexandrian authorities where they basically say, hey, we won't kill you if you surrender. And ancient sources actually tell us that this happens. So despite killing these Christians in these skirmishes, the pagans themselves were not executed after surrendering, but this whole area, right, the Serapeum is not spared. And the great statue of Serapis, because it is this sort of non Christian deity created by the Ptolemies, is demolished and then sacred objects are destroyed and seized and the Serapeum was basically torn down. But what happened to all the scrolls and to all the knowledge? Well, they were likely destroyed along with everything else. Now this is the moment where Alexandria's library and the heritage around these library complexes takes the biggest hit. Now, you can't talk about Alexandria's intellectual collapse without talking about Hypatia, one of the most famous scholars to ever teach in the city. And she's often mythologized. But here is what we know. And one of the things that makes Hypatia so interesting is that she's a woman. Yes. Didn't see that coming. Curveballs. Hypatia is a mathematician, a philosopher and an astronomer, and she's teaching openly in the city and around the libraries. Even after religious tensions are coming into the city and she's advising political leaders and she's really well respected all over the Mediterranean, even outside of Alexandria. But in 415 AD, she's murdered by a Christian mob. Sorry. All right, we're not perfect, okay? I never said that. Sometimes Christians do bad stuff, and that includes murdering Hypatia. So the Bishop Cyril and the Prefect Orestes are locked in a power struggle, okay? And this is tale as old as time. Political elite, priestly elite, they're battling. And then Hypatia gets pulled into the middle of it. Not because of anything that she taught, but because she was being seen as. She was seen as being very close to the prefect. Now, a group of Christians, I guess you could say Christian extremists perhaps, stop her chariot in the street. They drag her into a building, and then they kill her. And then they burn her remains. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today.
- [31:24]
Commercial Announcer
Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.
- [31:33]
Mark Yagnon
And breathe.
- [31:34]
Commercial Announcer
Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
- [31:45]
Mark Yagnon
1-800-Contacts.
- [31:47]
Commercial Announcer
Get a jump on next summer with VRBO's early booking deals. Don't wait to claim your dream summer spot, whether that includes a good porch swing or a poolside lounger. When you book early, you get the best places at the best prices. But back to the poolside loungers. With vrbo, you don't have to reserve any loungers. They're all yours. In fact, the whole private home is yours. Book with early booking deals and you can lounge around all summer long however you please@vervo.com.
- [32:19]
Mark Yagnon
Not great, right? Okay, sorry. Ancient writers make it clear that she wasn't targeted for her ideas. She wasn't targeted because she was a woman. She wasn't targeted for any of the, you know, obvious sort of external features. She's targeted simply because people thought that she was standing in the way of the Bishop Cyril in his political influence. Now, this moment officially marks when Alexandria stopped being a safe space for philosophy and debate. Right after her murder, one of the most famous scholars in Alexandria is murdered. Not for her ideas of what she was doing. Just because some political bs, all the scholars leave. They're like, dude, what are. Like, no, I'm not gonna get eclipped for being tight with, like, a politician. Like, this is insane. Like, just because I talked to some guy and he asked me to consult for him, now all of a sudden I'm gonna get chopped. Like, I. So once that happens, and you have the lack of funding because the Romans take over, and you have the destruction of, you know, the temple or the, you know, the library because of, you know, pagan influence, the academic culture is almost completely collapsed. So for Alexandria, this is not a place of learning anymore. This is a place where philosophy gets people killed. Okay? So what's interesting is that no building actually needs to burn, because the people who made Alexandria are actually what makes the library, you know, a. A fascinating place in this sort of intellectual breadbasket. They're gone, but yet the legend keeps growing. Now, here's where we get, you know, one of the most famous and controversial stories. Okay? There is a very interesting sort of rumor that people will describe, okay? And this is. I'm just going to say what it is. Again, this is not my interest to peddle conspiracy theories, especially baseless ones about different ethnicities. But some people, specifically in the ancient world speculated and was shared the rumor that Arabs burned down the library in the seventh century. A lot of people say yes, okay? Though some scholars will say it technically was Arab influence. And they'll tell you that when the Muslim general Amir bin Al as conquered Alexandria in 642 AD, he burned the library on orders from the Caliph Umar. You'll even hear the line, if the book agrees with the Quran, they are unnecessary. If they disagree, they are dangerous. And basically the. You know, the story here is that, you know, the Quran is the single only book that Muslims need. So if it agrees with it, you know, just read the Quran itself. And if it disagrees with it, get it out of here. Now, here's the problem is that the quote that we just read doesn't come from the 600s. It doesn't really even come close. It first shows up 600 years after, written by a Christian author who had his own reasons for kind of painting the conquest in a very unflattering light for the Muslims. Now, modern historians agree that by the time that the Arabs actually arrive, the great library wasn't even standing anymore. It didn't even exist. Not as a functioning institution, not as a book collection that just was nothing. Now, the place had already fallen apart after centuries of fires, riots, temple destruction, neglect. It's like somebody invading a town today, and then they get blamed for, like, destroying Blockbuster. It's like, yeah, I guess, in a way, but like, Blockbuster was already gone before they pulled up. All right, like, yeah, you invaded, you know, Portland. There's no more Blockbuster. Sorry, dude. So when the Arabs actually come to the city, they find a city that, you know, has scholars and books for sure. There's obviously an academic tradition, but not this legendary library complex that needs to get destroyed. So this whole, like, Arabs burn the library story catches on later because people wanted, you know, a very easy villain that they could blame as the people that, you know, caused this academic collapse. Which, I mean, to be frank with you, I also just don't think aligns with like this sort of Islamic renaissance that comes up where there's like all these, you know, inventions of like, you know, Al Jabeer coming up with, like, so many mathematical proofs, all that kind of stuff. It's like, I don't know if there's like the real, like, anti intellectualism that would make them be like, destroy everything. I think if anything, they would go in there and be like, let's take all this stuff. Regardless, when history refuses to give you, like, a clean answer, the myths tend to, like, kind of fill in the gaps. So what actually is lost? This is where the story gets really interesting because we don't fully know what is lost, but we can guess, right? The library's goal was to collect every written work in the world. And some authors estimate that it holds around like, half a million to 750,000 scrolls at its peak. And even if the real number is lower than that which, you know, presumably was, that is an absurd amount of text. Also, remembering, every letter on every scroll is handwritten. Everything is done by hand. So one of the most famous discoveries that comes out of Alexandria is the discovery of the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. Now, the Hebrew Bible, if you don't know this, is the Old Testament basically, and the Septuagint is the Greek translation of that. And it said that the Ptolemaic king actually requested this translation in an attempt to boost Alexander's reputation as the center of world knowledge. And Jewish scholars from Jerusalem were shipped in under royal escort to actually complete the works. According to tradition, 72 translators each worked separately and somehow produced these identical copies. The final manuscripts became so influential that early Christians actually used the Septuagint as their primary Old Testament. And New Testament writers would actually quote the Septuagint more than any other version. So for thousands of years, if you're reading the Hebrew Bible in the Mediterranean world. Odds are that you are reading the Septuagint, the Alexandrian version, which is pretty crazy. And remember, it wasn't just literature. It was a place where people were experimenting and building and mixing and just trying to understand how the world is actually working. So, for example, engineers like Hero of Alexandria were playing with ideas that wouldn't show up again for nearly 2,000 years. So he created something called the Eolipile. Now, this is a small metal sphere that spins and it spins using steam. Now, it's a pretty simple device, but what's remarkable about it is that it shows that someone in that building had already figured out the basic fundamental ideas behind the steam engine. I mean, you can see a picture of the Eolipile now where it's like, yeah, this is a steam engine. Now, they didn't know exactly how to harness it, but the fundamentals of how the steam engine were working, I mean, in the modern era, the steam engine changed the world. Imagine if they were able to harness that. Who knows, maybe they did. But it wasn't just invention. Alexandrian medicine was just as advanced. So the doctors in Alexandria are, like, dissecting bodies and they're taking some of the most detailed anatomical notes of the ancient world, refining surgical techniques, they're treating illnesses, documenting symptoms, and they're actually passing down all of their findings for generations and generations and generations, putting them all into scrolls, storing them in Alexandria. And much of that is lost. And then there's geography. So Eratosthenes, one of the Library's most famous scholars, measured the Earth using sunlight and shadows and, you know, some math, basically trying to find the circumference of the Earth. And his results were so close to the real circumference that modern scientists are still amazed at how accurate he was. With nothing but sticks and brain power. It's actually pretty interesting. Maybe we can put up a. The image of how you can basically use, like, a giant pole and the sun to measure, you know, the Earth by using the shadow. It's interesting, interesting geometry to actually figure out the Earth, which is also another thing. Most people in the ancient world knew that the Earth was round. This is. There's this whole thing of, like, oh, people thought the Earth was flat and that, oh, people are going to fall off the Earth. It's a myth. It's not true. But regardless, language was also thriving and, like, linguistic studies. So scholars are comparing dialects and creating dictionaries and explaining how, you know, Greek was spoken differently in different regions. And this is work that people are still doing today. You still modern linguists that are kind of exploring this stuff and the kind of work that they were doing was essential to a city that was filled with people traveling from all around the world. Another thing that was very important and largely lost was astronomy. So the library was said to have held star catalogs and planetary models and debates about how the universe was arranged and how it was formed. And many different scholars were discussing this. Aristarchus of Samos was one of the most famous astronomers associated with the library and is said to have proposed the heliocentric model, Basically the idea that, you know, all of the planets in our solar system are going around the sun as opposed to the Earth. And he was developing this idea 1700 years before Copernicus actually considered the concept. So on top of all of this, the library also housed historical records from cultures across the ancient world. Egyptians, Jews, Greek historians, Babylonian astronomical logs, and possibly even texts from India. Anyone reading in these halls would be. Would have been exposed to an enormous range of human knowledge, basically. In short, if you dropped a modern scientist into the library at the peak, they wouldn't even feel like they had gone that far back in time. They would feel like they're in just kind of like an alternate version of, you know, like a college where, you know, people are dealing with a lot of the same information and dissecting it in a lot of the same ways. And in certain ways, they would actually have more information than we have today because so much of it was lost. And somehow all of that, the experiments, the ideas, the discoveries, are slowly disappearing as the library is fading away. So what does that mean for Alexandria today? Right. Even though so much of this ancient city was destroyed or built over, archaeologists are still uncovering physical pieces of Alexandria. And some of the most interesting finds have only been discovered in the last few years. So one of them is the sunken Royal quarter. Okay. This is one of the most famous discoveries that has come about recently, and that included basically the remains of what's believed to be Cleopatra's palace, a royal harbor, a temple to Isis, the foundations of the palace, like, how they actually built it, even blocks from the original lighthouse of Alexandria, one of those ancient world wonders that we talked about. This area just kind of sank gradually due to, like, earthquakes and the coastal bedrock of the city and kind of went into the ocean. But it also confirmed ancient accounts of Alexandria's shifting shoreline. So the real reason behind the death of the library. Right. If you really boil it all the way down and stick to what the evidence actually supports, the Story is pretty simple, okay? The Library of Alexandria didn't burn down in a literal sense. In one big moment where everything went up in flames, there was a fire. But the real reason is that it slowly fell apart over centuries. It was hit again and again with riots and religious persecution and crackdown and changes in, you know, the political hegemony that actually controlled the city, right? There's no single villain you can point to and be like, these people came here and started a fire and destroyed all this knowledge, right? But instead, you get this long line of people and events, each taking small pieces from the Library and its legacy. And that's what makes the story, in my opinion, more interesting, right? If it was one dramatic disaster, you could just be like, all right, don't do that again. You know, like, fireproof the building better or something. Instead, the real cause is more familiar, right? There's neglect, right? Like, I mean, one detail that I don't even think we really even touched on that much that Joseph Manning told us about is, like, because the staff is underpaid, you have less people, you know, maintaining it. And a lot of the scrolls are just, like, getting damaged and, like, decomposing due to the, you know, due to the environment. Again, it's not, like, temperature controlled. So the scrolls are slowly starting to go. And back in the day, when you would have someone monitoring what scrolls were getting destroyed, you would have people recopy them and recopy them and recopy them and make modern updates. But you have the scrolls decomposing, getting destroyed. You have, you know, one fire from, you know, a few centuries before it actually goes away, and bad priorities and people kind of just forgetting how important this knowledge was until it's too late. And ultimately, that is the real story behind the destruction of the Library of Alexandria. I think it's an important story to think about because it's not. Again, it's not some dramatic cataclysm that just is like, oops, it's gone. It's a generational span of politics and violence and priorities that eventually makes all this information go away. And, you know, you have to be concerned that that same thing could happen now. You know, like, we have with the Internet, so much information. Like, I don't think the Internet is going to literally be destroyed. I mean, it could, right? AI, Sorry. But, like, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. But it is possible that with so much information that we have due to political interests and, you know, infighting and misinformation, that it's possible that all of the knowledge that we have is actually just useless because the fake narratives and the misinformation becomes more popular and people lose their priorities of what actually the purpose of all this knowledge is, which is to try to ascertain some type of. Of legitimate truth and try to operate in good faith to figure out what actually is happening on this earth, what exactly history really is, who the big global players are in the story of humankind. And to me, I don't think the Internet is going to go away and all of our digital archives, but it's possible that because of all the things I mentioned, it just might go away in the hearts and minds of, you know, the people that are reading it. So that, I think, is the thing that I take away from this, that I try to think about where I'm like, all right, like, there's a lot of good information out there. And I think it is, you know, the. I think it's in the interest of all people to try to pursue all the information and really try to prioritize the good stuff, the stuff that we can verify, the stuff that, you know, we can cross collect with, you know, different scholars, that we can come to some type of mutual consensus, and we can look at all the debates and all the competing theories, but. But trying to keep an open mind of what is actually true. Yeah. So I don't know, Christos, what did you learn anything from this? From, you know, your sort of Greek satellite college that got ruined? First of all, I'm just very proud of the way you pronounce a lot of the words. Thank you very much. I couldn't have been done without my pal Zach that was helping me figure it out. And then also you on the side being like, it's actually tall on me. I was like, okay, thanks, Shout out, Zach. And yeah, basically, the library just needed cloud storage way earlier than it was available. That is true. That is true. Going to the cloud would have been nice instead of a cloud of smoke. Am I right, though? But again, even if it's backed up on the cloud, you have all these competing forces where it's like, people are like, if the priorities of the Romans is not to finance these academic institutions, then even if it's all preserved, people are just like, yeah, we don't care about that crap. You know, like, you need the, you know, the powerful money sources to be invested in, you know, maintaining information and not necessarily pushing a, you know, academic agenda, but just creating a space where people can go and learn freely. And financing really smart people to operate in good faith and try to discover stuff, right? Yep. I agree with you, Christos, fully. You put it very well. Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of the tent talks here at the campsite. All right, make sure you subscribe to this channel. Not only do we do the 10 talks where we deep dive on some crazy stuff throughout the world, but we also do awesome interviews with very interesting people that are much smarter than me that can explain what's actually going on. And if you liked this episode, you're probably gonna like history camp. You can check that out. That's where we go into all sorts of crazy stuff. And, you know, we talk about the past wars, you know, famous leaders, all that kind of jazz. And then you can also check out religion camp, where we go through religious history, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, everything that involves what people really believe about where we came from, where we're going. And then, of course, you can see me on the road. Mark Yagnon live. Please come to the shows. Say what's up? I am so grateful that people want to come see me. Do stand up. And after the show, I'd love to say what's up to you. But thank you guys so much. I really appreciate you guys for just making this thing possible. And, yeah, you guys are the best. I'll see you soon. And Doug, here we have the limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
- [48:57]
Commercial Announcer
Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.
- [49:00]
Mark Yagnon
Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com savings. Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts peace.