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A
Most of us have heard of MK Ultra, the CIA's illegal mind control program that tested LSD on unsuspecting Americans. But what almost never gets talked about is the one man whose story the government was forced to disclose. The only victim they ever publicly apologized to. He was a man who helped design the very tools of psychological warfare. He spent his career inside the most sensitive labs in America. And he died nine days after the CIA secretly dosed him with lsd. His name was Frank Olson, and depending on who you asked, he either jumped from a hotel window or he was pushed through that window to keep America's darkest projects buried. This isn't just a story about a crazy scientist who couldn't handle a bad trip. It's the story of a government program that lost control of one of its own. And they spent decades trying to clean up that mess. This is the story of MK Ultra's only confirmed patient. The case of Frankel's. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, people? And welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent, where every single week, we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from around the world, from all time, forever. Yes, this is my tent, where I sit in it every single week and I do deep dives on random stuff that catches my eye on the Internet and I explain it to you, the viewer. The brilliant, enlightened, smart, handsome, and beautiful men and women that make this show possible. I want to thank you for clicking on this video, subscribing, commenting, and all that stuff that keeps the fire burning here at the campsite. More importantly, what's up, Christos? I want to give a shout out to you for just being so tall and handsome and awesome at all times.
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B
Well, I'm gushing for comments.
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All right, Christos, I know it's getting to your head. A lot of people in the comments are loving you lately, and it's really starting to piss me off. Okay, if I can be fully honest, you might be Frank Olson next. All right, if we had a. You might get pushed out of the treehouse.
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B
I'm not averse to that.
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A
It would be better than sitting in this cave all day.
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B
Evidence is I, like, hurt.
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A
You like what? Being hurt. You like being hurt? Yeah. Yeah. This is a reference to your love life. Yes, I understand. I understand. Christos, we are going to find you a lovely woman or man or someone to just complete you, but today is not the day for that, all right? Today is the day to uncover one of the most, shall I say, controversial, maybe the most interesting secret test that the US Government ever did, and that is MK Ultra. If you've never heard of it, we'll give you a little bit of background, but we're going to go into the story of Frank Olson. There's been a few Netflix documentaries, or one Netflix documentary in particular that was made about Frank Olson, and it's captivating. So if you haven't seen, you should go check that out. But today, I'll be giving you the brief on who this guy was, what he did, and how he met his untimely demise. Now, before we dive into the death of Frank Olsen, we need to understand what was actually going on, because his story doesn't start in a lab or in a CIA meeting room. This story ultimately starts in Wisconsin, where Frank Olsen grew up. And from an early age, he showed interest in two things that would eventually define his career. One, a curiosity about how the natural world worked. And two, a talent for solving problems that other people found impossible. He wasn't rebellious necessarily, as a kid. He wasn't particularly like political. He was just the kind of kid who would take things apart to understand how they worked and then rebuild them even better than before. And that mindset ultimately led him into the sciences. He went on to earn a bachelor's degree and then a master's degree and then a PhD in bacteriology, the study of, literally, bacteria. And by the time he finished grad school, World War II had busted out and was already well underway. And the US Government was actively recruiting scientists who could help build a new generation of weapons and defenses. Now, Frank Olson was the exact kind of person that they wanted. He was brilliant and methodical and above all, patriotic. He's someone who trusted the government and believed that national security depended on scientific innovation. And that's how he ended up at Fort Detrick in Maryland, the epicenter of America's biological warfare research hub. And he didn't stumble into into the world of COVID programs. He was literally handpicked for it. And once he proved that he could handle classified work, and then more classified work, and then top secret work, he was invited deeper into projects that Americans would never hear about. If you'd ever heard of Fort Detrick, that's kind of the point. So during the Cold War, it was where the US Was attempting to create germs as weapons. And inside for Dietrich is one of the most secretive units in the entire US Government, the Special Operations Division, or the sod. Now, this is where Frank was a signed and Their job wasn't to cure diseases or make vaccines or any of that stuff. It was to figure out how to turn biology into a weapon and deploy it without anyone knowing. And so that means a bunch of different things. Bioweapons that could be sprayed into the air so that people would breathe them in without realizing it. Chemical or biological agents that could weaken or disorient or even break prisoners during an interrogation, giving them some type of truth serum. And ultimately how to simulate an outbreak that looks like an accident. Now, Olson also wasn't some low level assistant in the corner. He was a senior biochemist with clearance high enough to know what the weapons were and what they were actually meant to do. Co workers later said that he was friendly and pretty affable, funny guy, but that the work started to wear on him. I mean, this type of work is not for the faint of heart. He was seeing live animals get tested on and understood exactly what these agents could do to a human body. And over time, watch the theories of what they thought was capable turn into real life practices. But to understand why Frank Olson became such a problem, you have to understand for DIETRICH and the CIA's new obsession with psychological control. So this was peak Cold War paranoia. Korea was fighting the Soviets had nukes. American prisoners of war were confessing on camera that the US had biological weapons. And American intelligence was convinced that brainwashing was a real phenomenon. Now, this led to two things. Project Bluebird and Project Artichoke. These were MK Ultra's predecessors. Their goal was simple in theory and pretty scary in practice. They basically wanted to know whether or not drugs, hypnosis, psychological torture, or some type of sensory manipulation could be used to break down prisoners and get secret intelligence, or erase or alter memories of people that, you know, had seen terrible things or even allow full control over a human being. Now, Fort Detrick's Special Operations division worked closely with these projects for one main reason. The CIA needed people who understood toxins and aerosols, but most importantly, how to deliver them silently. And SOD had exactly that. So because of his position, Olson wasn't just in the lab at Dietrich. He also traveled and visited CIA linked black sites in places like Germany and France where suspected spies and prisoners of war were being interrogated. Officially, these sites were for debriefing or screening, but unofficially, they were where the US and its allies could do things that would never fly on American soil. Think almost like Guantanamo Bay in the modern day. It was later suggested that during these trips abroad, Frank Olson would witness brutal interrogation and torture that was justified as, you know, science experiments and potentially new experiments on people who never consented to any of this. So if you're wondering why any of that would involve a biochemist, remember, part of what Bluebird and Artichoke were testing was the idea that drugs could make someone more malleable. And to do that, they needed someone who understood what these drugs did and how to administer them. And who better to call than someone that had literally helped design the protocols. So by the early 1950s, Olson had gone from a patriotic scientist trying to, you know, secure the, you know, the nation to a man who had seen so much and had experienced so much that he started to question the entire system. And this entire world is built on secrecy. And in such a covert system, that kind of conscience doesn't just make you uncomfortable, it could make you a threat. Now we get to the night where it all starts. On November 18, 1953, a group of CIA officials and Fort Detrick scientists were heading to a cabin at Deep Creek Lake in Maryland. Officially, this was a work retreat, but like most, you know, CI related work retreats in the woods, it was actually a strategy meeting mixed with an off the books experiment. So at the table you had Sidney Gottlieb, the CIA chemist who ran what would eventually become MK Ultra, Robert Lashbrook, his deputy, and several members from sod, including Frank Olson. They drank and they talked and they goofed around. But then at some point late in the evening, Gottlieb decided to run a test. Without telling them, he dosed the men's drinks with LSD and began to monitor their actions. Most of the men just kind of tripped out. They laughed. Eventually they came down and by the next day they were, you know, a little shaken up. But they were functional, right? Just a night out with the boys where you dose them, a little lsd, you know, what's the worst that could happen? However, Frank Olson was not okay. Almost immediately, he began to come unhinged. He was anxious and confused. And he said that he felt like he. His mind was splitting apart. And he told people that his thoughts were slipping away from him. This wasn't just a bad trip. This was a man who, like his basic psychological stability had been knocked loose. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break real quick because we got to have some real talk, all right? If you've ever brushed off white flakes from a black T shirt, okay, that's not dry scalp or whatever you're telling yourself, right? That's dandruff and dandruff is caused by, by a fungus. Now, most shampoos don't actually fix that. No, they just dry out your scalp even more. So you just keep on buying the shampoo. And honestly, a lot of these formulas haven't even changed since like the 1960s. Every big shampoo brand was developed then, which is also when doctors were like, hey, take a cigarette for some stress. And that's why I like flakes. See this right here? This is flakes. It is an anti dandruff shampoo and conditioner that actually targets the problem. It's got two times the active ingredient peritheone zinc than the standard drugstore brands. And it was developed by a top dermatology dermatologist out of New York City. Now here's the part that most people miss. Scalp health is hair health. That dandruff fungus irritates your scalp, which then causes you to itch it all the time then leads to more inflammation than even shedding. Yes, it even can cause you to lose your hair. Clear the scalp and your hair will look better and fuller and healthier. And flakes to something that's great they don't do like the two in one lazy thing. No. Shampoo clears the fungus and the flakes. And then the conditioner puts moisture back into your scalp with MCT oil so that your hair actually stays soft and, and flexible instead of breaking off in the shower. Also, it smells great, like clean. You know, it's not medicinal, it's not overpowering. There's no harsh junk in it. That makes your scalp even worse off than it was before and keeps you in the cycle. I mean, straight up, I just used flakes today, all right? I'm telling you, it's the, it's so moisturizing. It makes your hair feel great even if you don't have dandruff. It's great for your hair and it'll keep you from ever getting dandruff. It is dermatologists developed. It's already used by hundreds of thousands of guys. And honestly, it's just a grown up move. And right now you can get 20% off plus a free scalp brush. All right. And a 30 day money back guarantee if you use the code camp. That's C A M P. And if it doesn't work for you, you're not stuck with it. Yeah, that's right. The promo code camp. C A M P for 20% off free scalp brush, which feels incredible on your scalp. And a 30 day money back guarantee. There's literally nothing to lose. Give it a shot. You're going to get 20% off. And if you don't like it within 30 days, just tell them, hey, this wasn't for me. You're getting your money back and nothing is going to be lost. Except obviously the. The flakes on your shirt that you've been brushing away. So look, take care of the roots, get better hair. Your black shirts are actually going to be black again. The itch on your scalp is gone. That's the flakes promise. Now let's get back to the show. From that night forward, everyone who was there basically agrees on one thing, that Frank Olsen was never the same again. The days immediately after Deep Creek Lake were the most crucial. Olson went back to Fort Detrick, but coworkers said that he was just a different person. He was now talking about wanting to quit his job and that, you know, this work and bioweapons was a big mistake and that he felt like he was, you know, disintegrating and that, you know, he just seemed paranoid and scared all the time. He was all of a sudden questioning the very programs that he had helped build. He wasn't exactly a whistleblower in the press kind of thing, but it was just someone whose internal filter had just melted down and their grasp on reality was slipping away. From a human perspective, you could see this as just a man cracking under the weight of his conscience, plus this massive break with reality. But from the CIA's perspective, this is something else entirely. This is a security breach, right? This is someone with intimate knowledge of secret interrogation programs and awareness of illegal experiments and US Bioweapons, and now wants to be out and potentially talk about things that he shouldn't be. So if you're running a secret program that technically shouldn't even exist at all, this is the worst case scenario. And the way the CIA decided to handle it made everything that followed even darker. The nine days between Deep Creek Lake and Olson's death is where most of this conspiracy comes from. Every decision within that window matters. No pun intended. Olson was clearly on edge. But despite this, the government didn't send him to a normal hospital. They didn't even really tell his wife what was going on, and they didn't even pull him from the work to give him time off. Instead, they sent him to New York to a CIA connected doctor named Dr. Harold Abramson. Now, Abramson was an allergist who just so happened to be a part of Sidney Gottlieb's MK Ultra network. He wasn't a regular therapist. Abramson was literally one of the guys helping the CIA understand how LSD and other drugs affected the mind. Instead of grounding this man who was having a break with reality, Abramson reportedly gave him more medication. It's unsure exactly what it was, potentially sedatives and maybe even more psychedelics. And the sessions were described as confusing and chaotic, essentially causing Olson to feel even worse. And then from there, things got even more controlled. The CIA decided Olson should be observed even further. So he traveled again to New York, but this time with Robert Lashbrook. This is Gottlieb's deputy. Then they checked in at the Statler Hotel under fake names and went up to their rooms. But Lashbrook actually stayed in the same room as Olson in order to keep an eye on him. Just a few days before this trip, Olson had actually told his boss back at Fort Detrick that he wanted to resign. He didn't want to work on biological warfare anymore. And that's when his boss had something terrifying to say. He said to him, it would be a serious mistake to resign right now. Now, on its face, it sounds like just simple advice, like, hey, we got so much going on. Your career is so, you know, so bright. Like, there's so much coming. Like, just. Just hang on for a little bit more. But in hindsight, with everything that we now know, it seems like it was more of a warning. By early morning, Frank Olsen would be dead. So the official story goes like this. November 28, 1953. Around 2:30am in the middle of the night, Frank has a mental breakdown. He wakes up and suddenly jumps through a closed 13th floor window and falls to his death. But the details don't exactly all line up. According to Lashbrook, he was awakened by the sound of breaking glass. He says that he rolled over, saw the shattered window, sees the bed, and Frank Olsen's not in it. And he says that he did not rush to the street, he didn't scream for help, and he did not immediately call the police. Instead, the hotel switchboard operator overheard Lashbrook make a phone call and calmly say, well, he's gone. Not, oh, my God, he jumped, or something terrible happened, just simply, he's gone. Which, you know, some people have said is a weird thing to say if, you know, your roommate and your buddy that you're in charge of looking after just jumps out of a window. But perhaps, you know, a hardened, you know, operative and deputy of one of the top scientists, he'd seen some stuff and knew that this guy was having a mental break, and that's all he could Muster at the time. Later examinations of the scene and Frank Olsen's injuries also raised some questions. There's no clear evidence he had actually run through the window. I mean, this is a thick hotel window window, and trying to jump through it from a standing position is really difficult to do. There's also no usable fingerprints on the window. So if he opened it or pushed it or braced himself before hitting it, there would be some type of smear. He also had a large contusion on his head that some forensic experts say look like a blow from behind, which, again, in retrospect, people say is not the kind of thing you would expect from someone that just hits the ground. Now, all of this sounds like a man who was, you know, potentially knocked unconscious and then tossed out the window, rather than someone that consciously jumped. But at the time, none of this was public to the outside world, even to Frank's family. It was just a tragic suicide of a troubled scientist on a business trip that was having a hard time with the work that he was doing. However, to the CIA, it's now clear that this could be a huge security risk and that investigators were scrambling to succeed in one thing, and that is ultimately containing what had happened. So from the moment that Olson hit the ground, the CIA's top priority was ultimately to create a narrative. I mean, within hours, officials were deciding what the family would be told and how his co workers would be instructed to talk about it. They told his wife and his children that Frank had suffered a sudden and severe mental breakdown and framed it as stress and work pressure. No mention of a secret program or lsd, and no mention of those nine days leading up to his death at Fort Detrick. Coworkers were instructed to just be quiet, keep their mouths shut, as the files related to the incident were ultimately classified and sealed. Now, if this were truly a straightforward suicide case by just ordinary depression or a mental break, there would be no need to lie about the drugging or the nature of his work, and definitely no need to send Agency men to lie to the family about what happened. Now, fast Forward more than 20 years to the mid-1970s. Watergate had fundamentally shattered public trust, and Congress is finally digging deep into the intelligence community's ties to secret programs. This ultimately led to two major investigations. First, the Church Committee in the Senate and the Rockefeller Commission, appointed by President Gerald Ford. One of the biggest threads they uncovered was that for years the CAA had been running human experiments with LSD and other drugs. And many of those experiments were done without the subject's knowledge or Their consent. But buried in the files was a reference to a civilian scientist who died after being dosed with LSD by the CIA at a retreat in 1953. And that scientist was Frank Olson. Now, the discovery was massive. It was literal proof that the CIA had drugged Olson just days before he died. But get this. Even after the discovery, the family wasn't contacted by the CIA or one of Frank's previous colleagues. The family found out from the news, and this caused a ton of backlash and led to the President, literally President Ford, inviting the Olson family to the White House for a formal apology and a $750,000 settlement. But there's a key detail in that apology. It acknowledged that the CIA had improperly drugged Frank Olson. However, it did not acknowledge that the CIA had anything to do with his death. In other words, it was like, sorry, we spiked his drink, but, you know, he did have a mental break because of this, and he jumped out the window. But we didn't do anything about it. We had no involvement. So for Frank Olson's son, Eric Olson, the official apology didn't end the story. If anything, it just caused more questions. And he spent years digging through documents, talking to witnesses, and ultimately piecing together what had actually happened to his father. And the more he learned, the less that this story really held up. And then in 1994, more than 40 years after Frank Olson's death, the family made a drastic decision. They had Frank's body exhumed, literally taken out of his burial plot. Forensic expert Dr. James Stars led the examination. And just a fun fact to show how famous this guy is in the forensic investigator world. He actually helped re examine the Lizzie Borden axe murder case when it was reopened in 1992. As Christos reminded me. What is the rhyme that goes with it?
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B
Lizzie Borden took an axe gave her mother 40 wax when she saw what she had done gave her father 41.
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A
And they taught you this in school?
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B
I think it was like, a playground thing.
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A
Beautiful. Yeah. Why is every playground rhyme so dark? Right? Like, pocket full of posies. Like, that's, like, about, like. What's super dark? It's like the Black Plague or something.
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B
Exactly.
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It's crazy. Yep. So this is what you guys would sing to school?
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B
Yes.
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A
That explains it. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you something. The holidays wrecked me. Yeah. Travel. I mean, it was eating whatever I wanted. I wasn't working out, and I just hit January, and I felt like I was 100 years old. What I didn't realize that I now know is that your body. My body starts losing collagen way earlier than you think, like mid-20s. And that's why recovery sucks. I mean, your joints will feel stiff and your hair will get thin and your skin will look tired. All that. And that's why I started taking Bubs Natural Collagen Peptides. Yes. Everyone's tossing around that P word. And I'm telling you, Bubs is the best one. I toss it in my coffee in the morning and you don't even taste it. It dissolves instantly. It doesn't like clump up or anything like that. And honestly, I feel better. I recover faster, my joints feel better, and I just feel less like I got hit by a car. It's like the first New Year's resolution that I actually kept up with. And what I also like is that Bubs is a legit brand. There's no sugar, there's no fillers. It's third party tested. It is Whole 30 approved. It's NSF certified for sports, all the good stuff. And on top of that, they donate 10% of the profits to charity honoring Glenn Bub Doherty, who is a Navy SEAL who was killed in Benghazi. So it's not just wellness and going to make you feel better. It's also built on something real that'll make the world better. They also do electrolytes, mct, oil creamer, all the clean stuff. So great news for you is that right now you're going to get 20% off your entire order. Yes, that's what you get for being a camp listener. 20% off the entire order when you go to Bubs. Naturals, that's B U B S Naturals. N A T U R A L S dot com and use the code camp at checkout. And after you buy, they're going to ask you how you heard about them. Tell them that Camp Gagnon sent you. Yeah, the diesel peptided up bro over at Camp Gagnon. All right, let them know. And it actually helps the show grow and it helps keep the fire burning here at the campsite. All right, now let's get back to it. Now, given the time that had passed, a lot of the soft tissue on Frank and his corpse was practically gone. But the bones had something to say. Dr. Stars concluded that Olson had a significant injury to his skull that looked like a blow from from behind. The fracture and the pattern of the damage were not typical for someone who hit the sidewalk after a jump. And the injury was more consistent with someone who had been hit before going out the window. Now again, how someone's supposed to look after they jump out of a 13 story building? I don't. I don't know. I'm like in my mind. If you hit the ground after jumping out of a building. Yeah. I mean, your body's gonna be messed up. Am I crazy?
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B
I mean, do you typically roll to the other side?
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A
I don't know. Did he, did he land by the back of his head?
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B
You would think that he lands face front.
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I don't know how he landed. I don't know. Did he roll in the air? It's 13 stories. It's a long go. It was a long way to. Long way to drop.
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B
I had a nightmare last night that I fell out of a window.
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A
Crystal is not the time for that. Okay? Essentially, everything that was hidden from the original port was found by Dr. Stars. Now, this exhumation should have just closed the book, but instead the story got even bigger and more questions got brought up. Because right after Dr. Stars release findings, new pieces began to emerge that made the suicide explanation really difficult to buy. In 1997, declassified documents were released that claimed in 1953, just two years after Frank died, the CIA wrote a secret document called A Study of Assassination. Now, this is crazy. The book literally describes the preferred method for killing someone so that it looks accidental. And here's what they say. Stun the target with a blow to the head, push them from a high window. Let the fall disguise the real cause of death. I'm glad that we have our top minds in the sea. I really trying to figure this out. They say this is like the Russian method. Like once a week you'll hear about like a Russian oligarch that like fell from a window and they're like, ah, he tripped, he got scared or something. But they might just be biting our old stuff. Regardless, this is not now just like a crazy conspiracy. This is like the CIA's own text lining up perfectly with Frank's injuries. Now, while digging deeper into the case, Frank's son Eric found CIA memos discussing a compartmentalized denial mechanism that was activated after the incident. This is just like their fancy way of saying, like, controlling the narrative. It's not again, proof of murder, but it's definitely evidence of some type of coordinated cleanup. Okay, now that takes us to today. So in 2012, the Olsen family filed a new lawsuit claiming that the US Government had lied about the circumstances of their dad's death, misled the family during the 1975 apology and then withheld key information for decades. Now, of course, the Department of Justice fought the case and ultimately the courts dismissed it. Now, this is not necessarily because the Olsens were wrong, but because, according to the court, the statute of limitations had passed. It ended the same way every Olson investigation seems to end. No official answer. So in the end, the story of Frank Olson isn't just about a guy falling from a hotel window. It's about what happens when, you know, secrecy of these programs becomes more important than accountability. Right. Olson started as exactly the kind of person the Cold War needed. Right? He was educated and smart and willing to work in secrecy and do all the things that were asked of him. But once he started to ask the wrong questions and started to show a little bit of doubt that the system that he helped build had no way to release him. So whether you believe that he was, you know, murdered or that his death was the result of this botched attempt to contain a crisis, or maybe he really killed himself, one thing is certain that everything that happened after he died seems to point to an institution more interested in ultimately protecting itself than, you know, being fully honest with the truth. Because when a government admits that it drugged its own scientists without consent, covered it up for 22 years, destroyed records of the program, then insisted that they're telling the truth about everything else, it's difficult to believe anything, right? Like, you know, if this is what they'll admit, then what are they covering up? So the next time you hear like, MK Ultra mentioned is like, you know, some crazy conspiracy. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. For Frank Olson and his family, this is not a theory. This is a real program with a real tragedy and a real government cover up. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the abridged history of the scientist Frank Olson. I mean, yeah, dude, I'm like, I'm not surprised. You know what I mean? Like, if the CIA is like, yeah, we're going to just cover this up, like, who cares? Like, it's brutal and it's like, sad. But at the end of the day, like, the CIA's interests are doing what the CIA does and, you know, protecting their own agenda. And if that means the casualty of one guy, then yeah, they're going to do that every day of the week. And I think anyone that gets involved in the CIA should, should know this. Like, hey, if we're doing an operation and I'm stuck inside like a hole somewhere, they're not going to come get me because they have a whole other operation than they. Like, if the helicopter has 20 guys and all the secret information that they needed to get, and there's one guy left behind. Like, I know we want to believe. Like, no, we're going to risk the whole thing to go get one guy. I could see them just being like, sorry, dude. Snooze, you lose. You're, you know, casualty of the game. And that's just how it operates now. Of course, it's tragic and it's sad, you know, that this guy was a part of this. But, yeah, I don't know. I'm like, I guess I'm not surprised. Maybe I'm too jaded and cynical. I'm just like, yeah, of course you're working with the CIA. Like, you're working with the mob. Like, to me, it's like, oh, like a mob guy got caught up. Like, it sucks. But there's a. These are the games you play, you know, you want to work in top secret stuff. Like, there might be some top secret casualties. Now, with that said, I feel bad for his family. You know, it's awful that, like, their father literally, potentially got murdered. At the very least, they contributed to his death, right? Like, giving someone who, let's say he had some type of, like, mental health issues prior to getting dosed with lsd, secretly dosing someone with drugs, and then they kill themselves nine days later. It's like, yeah, you were involved in that, you know, and especially because they knew about it and then didn't give him time off or didn't get him, like, the adequate help that they needed and instead just kind of monitored him more closely. I'm like, yeah, that's like, yeah, like, they were involved certainly in his death. Now, all that to say? I'm like, I'm curious what their intentions were. Like, going to this retreat. Sidney Gottlieb gives everyone, you know, a little dose of the old. The old special sauce. I'm like, I wonder if they were like, hey, this is gonna be fun. Like, I could actually see that, like, a lot of these, like, military guys, like, they goof around, they have fun with each other. So I could see them being like, yeah, dude, let's just all go out. I got a little LSD from this thing we were doing. Like, we're just gonna do this, and then it goes sideways and he ends up, like, losing his mind. Or were they trying to, like, experiment on their own people, like, see what they do? I don't know. I don't know if there's ever, like, an official explanation for what they did or why but regardless, I mean, they contributed to his death, which is tragic, but also, government's gonna. Government, bro. Secret intelligence operation is gonna. Gonna be doing some shady stuff. And unfortunately, if you're too close to it, then you can get caught up some of the other MK Ultra stuff of, like, recruiting people and, like, kids again, I don't know how much of this is, like, verified verified, but, like, that kind of stuff is a whole different can of worms that, like, completely broaches on sovereignty and what you can do to your citizens. But this specific case, I'm like, ugh. I mean, it's sad, but also, I don't know, the fact that the government gave him money. 700, 750,000 for your dad to get murdered. I'm like, ooh, couldn't even round it up. Couldn't even throw a mill. Like, you're printing the money anyway. Like, just print an extra 250k for the. For the squad.
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B
Yeah.
- [30:26]
A
Yeah. I don't know. They also should have never accepted the apology. It's hard to say in hindsight because, like, the President invites you, but you got to just be like, we're not taking your money. We want truth. We want justice, and good for them. For examing the body, I mean, like, shout out to his kids for, like, just never letting it. Letting it go away. And be like, now we're going to fight for our dad and his legacy. That's sick. But, yeah, I mean, once again, another reason why I'll never join the CIA, because all of a sudden, you stop doing the right stuff, and they're like, oops, you fell from a window. And also, why, if you're going to work for the CIA, stay on the ground floor, right? Next time there's a retreat or something, just be like, hey, let's just. I'm afraid of heights. Let's just sleep. Let's just sleep on. Is there a basement? Let's go there. Let's sleep in the basement. That sounds better. You know, I don't know. Christos, what do you take from this? Is there anything you learned?
- [31:09]
B
I don't get how a bacteriologist ends up in this MK Ultra program. It's like, you're. The guy's supposed to be documenting the results of a study like this, not taking the lsd.
- [31:21]
A
Yeah, I mean, granted, he didn't mean to take it, but, yeah, I guess, like, you start working a little virology, a little bacteriology, you become good at biochemistry. And they're like, hey, can you learn biochemistry for these drugs? And these truth serums and this other stuff we're trying to do, I'd be more curious about everything else that doesn't come out. You know what I mean? Because if this is the stuff that we know about that's documented, I'm like, oh, there's way crazier stuff. You know, like every time you watch like a History Channel doc and it's like America's new technology and they're showing you planes that are like 15 years old, but they're pretending like they're brand new. Like, if this is the stuff they announced in like 2012, where they're like, yeah, you know, this. We accidentally did this. Sorry. Like, what stuff are they not talking about? That's the stuff I'm curious about, you know?
- [31:58]
B
And just lastly, the. The fact that he wanted to quit, was told, nah, nah, don't quit, and then ends up dead the next day.
- [32:07]
A
Yeah, that's a tough look.
- [32:08]
B
And then also the. The doctor right after being like, it's done.
- [32:13]
A
Yeah, but that part doesn't even seem that weird to me because, like, he's not the doctor, remember, he's the deputy for Gottlieb. So he's the dude that's like. I mean, that's what. That's the way I took it from, like, the doing the research is like, it was the switchboard operator overhearing the guy being like, well, he's gone. Because the whole time they're talking to like, hey, keep an eye on Olson. Because he's losing his mind. He's having breaks with reality. These drugs sent him into a, you know, psychedelic induced psychosis. So keep tabs on him. And then he wakes up and either he jumped or they killed him regardless, but he's just like, well, there you go. Whoops. So needless to say, a senseless tragedy at the hands of, you know, a rogue intelligence community around the cold wartime that was doing all sorts of crazy stuff. They say that they stopped, but did they? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, now we got Trump using supersonic weapons on Maduro, just blasting them with sound waves that makes it feel like their brains are exploding on the inside, per reports from Maduro's car. I don't know. It's kind of cool. It's sort of sick on the one hand, but also, like, crazy, because if they're using that on them, like, could they use that on us? Like, if there's. Next time there's a protest, like, you saw the protest footage, there's a place in, like, I think it was like, Siberia or something. People were protesting Serbia, I don't know. And they blast them with, like, a supersonic weapon that made everyone disperse real quick. You can find the video on Twitter. Yep. But it's pretty crazy. Like, yeah, they just have this technology. They probably had it for, like, 15 years. And it makes you reevaluate stuff like Havana Syndrome. Are they blasting people with sound waves like, you know, in their hotel rooms to make them, you know, have tinnitus or vertigo or whatever? I don't know. It's a. It's a difficult thing to really figure out. But my feeling is that, yeah, governments and, you know, state institutions are going to be ultimately looking out for their own interests, even if that means cracking a couple eggs on the way to make an omelette. But what do you guys think? Have you read this whole story? If you've seen the documentary, I think it's called. Oh, could you look it up? I think it's called Wormwood. I think it was Errol Morris. It's on Netflix right now. You guys should go check it out. But tell me what you think. I mean, is there anything I missed in this? Is there anything that I glanced over? Do you have any personal thoughts? Have you experienced these types of programs? Have you been MK Ultra? I would love to know. Please drop a comment. I read all of them. YouTube, Spotify, all that. And we'll get to the bottom of. Of whatever it is that you decide to type in. And I read all the comments, so please be nice about it. Furthermore, if you like religious deep dives, we got Religion camp. You can check that out there. Trying to figure out what everyone believes. If you like history deep dives, we got History camp. You can tune in over there. Or if you just like, you know, my weird deep dives on miscellaneous stuff, plus the awesome experts we bring in every week, this is the place for you. Camp Gagnon. You can subscribe to all three. It costs you nothing. And also we got merch over at Camp R and D. And also we have a new community. I want to know what you guys are up to on the day to day. Please check it out. We got the description X communities right there. And yeah, I would love to just chop it up with y'. All. Just in the morning when I'm having coffee, just read some memes or whatever you guys are on about that week. I appreciate you all dearly. Thank you for tuning into another episode of Camp. God bless you all and I'll see you next time. Peace this episode is sponsored by me. Yes. Camp R and D. That is the merch. That is the threads that we'd be wearing around here at the campsite. And we got all sorts of cool stuff. My buddy Zach just cooked up a sick UFO collection. You can go check it out there at Camp R and D. I really appreciate you guys. We had so many people that came through for the holidays and picked up their threads. It's awesome. We got hats, hoodies, T shirts, all that. And if you're still listening to this and you didn't skip through, congrats. You got a promo code. All right, what do we do? Christos? 5% more.
- [35:45]
B
How much five more?
- [35:47]
A
10%. 10%. Final offer.
- [35:50]
B
You won't go higher?
- [35:51]
A
You tell me. What? What do we give them? 12%. All right, we're doing 12% off. Should we go more?
- [35:59]
B
Hey, it's your world. I'm just living in it.
- [36:01]
A
Let's round up 10. No, 15. If you use the promo code, Camp 15, you're gonna be getting 15 off. Yes. I think we should also do Camp 10. 10. Just if someone doesn't want to take too much. Camp 10 or Camp 15. Those are the only two that are available.
- [36:19]
B
And then maybe we send a little something extra to the ones that do 10.
- [36:22]
A
If you do Camp 10, maybe there's something extra. No promises, but it's an interesting experiment. I just am curious to see what you guys do. Camp 10 or Camp 15? At Camp R. D, when you check out, you're gonna be getting those discounts. Thank you so much for rocking with us and wearing the threads. It keeps the lights on. It keeps the fire burning.