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Mark Gagnon (23:08)

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Mark Gagnon (23:23)

Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra. That's the OG it kicked off this whole Zero Sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the white can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every Vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar. Tap the banner to learn more. Now, a fascinating point about Jesus is that some of his teachings that might be seen to be going against Jewish law actually have parallels in rabbinic literature. So, for instance, his teachings on the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law are actually echoed in later rabbinic discussions. It's like his ideas were, you know, somewhat popular amongst some Jewish people at the time and it would be discussed. But let's be clear. While some Jews might see Jesus as a teacher or even a prophet, Judaism as a religion doesn't accept the Christian claims about him. The idea that he fulfilled Messianic prophecies or that belief in him is necessary for salvation or that he was divine doesn't fit into Jewish tradition. In fact, throughout history, the Jewish rejection of Jesus as the Messiah has been a major source of tension between Jews and Christians. Jews have often faced pressure or persecution because of this specific issue. Now you might be wondering, if Jews don't accept Jesus as the Messiah, are they still waiting for one? The answer is yes, sort of, with some caveats, but yes. In Judaism, the Messianic age is envisioned as a future era of world peace and universal knowledge of God ushered in by a human leader descended from King David. But it's not about personal salvation through belief in a Messiah. It's about the total transformation of the world. Interestingly, some modern Jewish thinkers have actually reinterpreted the idea of the Messiah as more of a process than a person, you know, incarnate. You could say they see working towards social justice and repairing the world as bringing about the Messianic age. And many will call it Tikan olam. And in Hebrew it's like they're saying like, hey, you don't have to wait for a Messiah necessarily, but rather the process of improving the world and making the world a better place will bring in the Messianic age that the process itself can be the Messiah. So let's circle back to Jesus himself. While he is not a central figure in Judaism, his Jewish identity has become a subject of increased interest amongst a lot of modern Jewish scholars. There's been a movement to understand Jesus in his Jewish context and to see him a part of Jewish history rather than apart from it. And this movement, which some have dubbed the Jewish reclamation of Jesus, isn't about accepting Christian beliefs or the divinity of Christ. Rather it's about understanding a significant Jewish rabbi who had an enormous impact on world history. It's like reconnecting with like a, like a foreign relative or something like that, like a long lost uncle or something. And you might not agree with everything that they stood for, but you can ultimately understand that they fit within the broader family connection. And some Jewish scholars have even suggested that understanding Jesus as a Jew can help foster better Jewish Christian relations. And by emphasizing Jesus's Jewishness, they hope to bring a bridge to some of the historical divides between these two faiths. But we should make it clear, while there is increased Jewish interest in Jesus, he is still not a religious figure for the Jews. So you won't find Jesus discussed in synagogues or Jewish religious schools, except perhaps in the context of Jewish history or, you know, comparative religious analysis. So where does that leave us? In Judaism, Jesus is seen as a teacher who lived and died as a Jew whose teachings, you know, would align with Jewish principles, but isn't accepted as the Messiah or as divine in any significant way. His approach to Jewish law was controversial for the time, but not entirely out of place for, you know, other Jewish rabbis and the discussions that they would have in that time period. And the Jewish view of Jesus is a reminder of the complex relationship between religions, especially those with shared roots like the Abrahamic religions typically have. It's a perspective that I think should make us look beyond some of our assumptions and appreciate the nuance, you know, in different faith traditions. So we have Christianity, Messiah, Islam, the prophet, Judaism, a controversial rabbi or a teacher. That is a part of Jewish history. But the story doesn't end there. Let's pivot away from the Abrahamic religions and the religions of the Levant to look at the East. Hinduism actually has something to say about Jesus as well. Now let me make it clear. Hinduism is not a traditional religion in the way that the Abrahamic religions generally are. It's more of a philosophy or a worldview. And as a result, there's no official stance on Jesus. Right. It is a perspective and a philosophy that is all about diversity and personal interpretation. So you're going to find a wide range of views amongst Hindus. Many respect Jesus as a spiritual teacher of great wisdom. They might see him as a holy man or even as a guru, or even as an avatar, a divine incarnation. It's like saying this Jesus guy, you know, he's onto something, right? His, his teaching has value. So some Hindus might even view Jesus as a sadhgu or a guru. And this is quite literally a holy man who has achieved a high level of spiritual enlightenment. So many Hindus will respect his teaching and his life of selfless service. And it's actually not uncommon to find pictures of Jesus alongside Hindu deities such as Ganesha or Krishna in some Hindu homes. What really resonates with many Hindus are Jesus's teachings of love and compassion. And these align really well with the core Hindu concepts of non violence and selfless service. So when Jesus talks about loving your neighbor or turning the other cheek, many Hindus will be like, yeah, that's kind of what we're about. It's like, you know, they're hearing, you know, different versions of their own wisdom. Matter of fact, some people even speculate that the lost years of Jesus, when he was, you know, from birth basically until he was, you know, right around 30, that some people speculate that he actually went to India and studied with Indian gurus. Now again, let me say that there's no historical basis for this, but it is a thing that people will talk about. So for example, Jesus saying, love your enemies. This aligns with the Hindu concept of seeing the divine in all things. Or consider the emphasis on forgiveness. That's something that you'll find in, you know, Hindu literature and sacred texts. In Hinduism, you could say that Jesus is speaking a spiritual language that many Hindus can resonate with and understand and even appreciate. Matter of fact, a well known Hindu teacher known as Paramahansa Yogananda came to the west and wrote extensively about Jesus. He saw Jesus's teachings as aligned with the ancient wisdom of India and attempted to actually bridge a gap between the east and the west using Jesus as a connection point. Matter of fact, Mahatma Gandhi, although not a Christian, was also deeply influenced by the teachings of Christ, especially the Sermon on the Mount. He actually once said, I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. It's a quote that people have heard a lot, but it really kind of shows both a respect and also a criticism of modern Christianity, both showing this respect for Jesus and his teachings, but asking Christians who uphold the teachings of Jesus at the same time. Now here's where it gets interesting. While many Hindus respect and even revere Jesus as a holy man, Hinduism as a world philosophy, as a religion perhaps doesn't typically incorporate him into the belief system. Jesus isn't a part of the Hindu pantheon of deities. You won't find any Hindu temples dedicated to Jesus or any worship rituals performed in his name. And this is because Hinduism already has a rich tradition of avatars and divine incarnations. While they might see Jesus as a spiritual figure, he's not essential to Hindu theology or practice. Jesus is not found in the Vedas or any other important text to Hindus. He's not in the Ramayana, he's not in the Mahabharata, but he's seen as a man who perhaps has achieved some type of spiritual enlightenment, basically saying like, hey, we like what Jesus was teaching, but we got our own deities and our own sort of religious philosophy at home, you know. Moreover, some aspects of Christian theology don't really sit perfectly with Hindu thought. The idea that Jesus is the only way to salvation, that none can enter, you know, to the Father except through me. That idea clashes with the Hindu view that there are many paths to the divine. Hindus generally believe in multiple lives and in reincarnation, which doesn't really have a place in Christianity. And this concept of one life followed by, you know, eternal existence in heaven or in hell. The Hindu view of Jesus also challenges a lot of assumptions about Christianity. If Jesus is one of many avatars or holy men, it undermines the unique status that Jesus has in Christian theology as the Messiah, as God. Interestingly, there's actually a Hindu text known as the Bavishya Pryana, and it actually contains a passage that some people interpret as a prediction of Jesus. Now, remember when I talked about the lost years of Jesus, that some people suspect that he may have went to India? Well, in this passage, it actually speaks of a spiritual teacher named Isha Masi coming from the West. And while most scholars see this as a later addition to the text, it shows how some Hindus have actually tried to incorporate Jesus into their worldview. Some modern Hindu gurus have embraced Jesus as a part of their teachings. So Satya Sai Baba, for instance, often spoke about Jesus and even claimed that he himself was a divine incarnation, just like Jesus. So while there's obviously a respect for Jesus and his teaching, it seems that the idea of him being the one and only way to salvation is one of the main things that holds him back in Hinduism. Some have even drawn a connection between the life and teachings of Jesus and that of Krishna. But again, Jesus does not have any type of significant place within the pantheon of Hindu deities. Now, the Hindu respect for Jesus can often sometimes clash with Christian missionary efforts in India. So, for example, some Hindus feel that Christian missionaries misrepresent Hinduism or even pressure people to convert. But despite a lot of these challenges, the Hindu view of Jesus offers an interesting possibility for connection. It shows how different religious traditions can find common ground in a lot of the teachings of love and compassion and selfless service and spiritual growth. So this basically summarizes many Hindus belief about who Jesus was and sort of what he represented, right? Not just as a figure from one faith, but as a symbol of spiritual wisdom and as a teacher. And this is actually where Buddhism comes in, offering yet another take on who Jesus was. So for Buddhists, Jesus is admired as a historical figure who embody compassion and selflessness. And again, all of these qualities really resonate deeply in Buddhist principles. Some even See parallels between Jesus and the concept of Bodhisattva. This is the Buddhist tradition that basically an enlightened individual who chooses to remain in the cycle of life and suffering known as samsara basically exists in the space to help others reach enlightenment. And while there's no direct evidence that Buddhists universally categorize Jesus in this way, his life of service and, you know, his sacrifice really fits that mold, right? So for a lot of Buddhists similar to Hindus, they see what he's done and are moved by his actions. So Jesus, you know, healed the sick, he fed the hungry, he preached love for all people, including enemies. And these actions echoed the Bodhisattva in this narrative of putting others needs above your own. And in this sense, some Buddhists see Jesus as an enlightened being who lived to alleviate suffering. However, there's a key difference. In Christianity, Jesus is seen as the Savior, the one who redeems humanity from sin through his death and resurrection. And salvation is through Christ alone. But Buddhists don't share this view. For Buddhist, salvation isn't about being saved by an external figure. It's about self realization and following the Eightfold path to enlightenment. So while many Buddhists admire Jesus and his compassion, they don't see him as a savior or the only way to salvation. And this brings us to another important point. Buddhism doesn't focus on God in the way that Christianity does in general. It's really a whole different worldview, kind of a bottom up perspective. The Buddha himself didn't claim divinity or preach about a creator God. Instead, he taught that life suffering stems from attachment and ignorance and that liberation ultimately comes from within. This idea that Jesus as both God and man is difficult for Buddhists to reconcile with their worldview because they don't even see the Buddha himself as go. Still, that doesn't mean that Buddhists dismiss Jesus outright. In fact, many appreciate these teachings of love and humility, much like they do in Judaism or Hinduism. And these values are universal and really align with Buddhist principles like metta, which is like a loving kindness, or karuna, which is compassion. So for example, when Jesus says blessed are the meek or turn the other cheek, some Buddhists claim that this resembles their own teachings about peace and overcoming anger and ultimately finding, I guess you could say an inner God or an inner peace. Interestingly, some Buddhists actually find inspiration and really admire the similarities between Jesus and Buddha. Both figures, you know, challenged social norms and the religious traditions of their time. Both emphasized personal transformation over the rigid rituals and the law. Both sought to guide people towards a deeper understanding of life and the purpose of life. So, for example, even, you know, their stance on materialism, the Buddha warned against attachment to worldly possessions and basically taught the true happiness comes from letting go of desire. And similarly, Jesus says in the book of Matthew, do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, but store up treasures in heaven. And while the context differs massively, their message kind of aligns in the same way. Ultimately, don't fret and put all of your, you know, passion into earthly possessions in the material world. But despite these parallels, there are also stark contrasts, right? Jesus emphasized faith in God as central to salvation, while Buddha focuses on self discipline and meditation and kind of going inside of yourself as a path to enlightenment. And as Jesus spoke of sin and repentance before God, the Buddha taught that ignorance, not sin, is humanity's fundamental problem. Another key difference lies in their approach to suffering. So for Christians, suffering can be redeemed, and they can find salvation due to Jesus suffering on the cross. In contrast, Buddhism sees suffering as something to transcend entirely by eliminating the root cause, which is attachment and want. And these differences highlight why Buddhism doesn't view Jesus as divine or unique in the same way that Christianity does. Instead of seeing Jesus as the only way to salvation, Buddhists might consider him, among many enlightened teachers throughout history, someone whose wisdom contributes to the collective spiritual growth and consciousness of humankind. Now, here is where things get interesting. Some modern interpretations suggest that Jesus could be seen as embodying consciousness or the consciousness of Christ. And this is a state of spiritual enlightenment similar to what Buddhists are striving for in meditation and mindfulness. This idea isn't traditional Buddhist thought, but it does reflect how some individuals will blend Eastern and Western spirituality. So where does that leave us? For Buddhists, they generally like Jesus. They admire his teaching, and they specifically love the moments of compassion and selflessness and basically dedicating your life to helping other people. But he is not divine in Buddhism. He is a human teacher, and his teachings are respected, but they are not central. And they really just complement Buddhist philosophy. What's up, people? We're gonna take a break really quick because I have amazing news. I'm coming on the road. That's right. My very first headlining tour. Where I'm going to every city that will possibly allow me to go there. I'm going to Fort Wayne, Indiana, Chicago, Hoboken, New Jersey. I'm going to Salt Lake City. I'm going to Washington, D.C. and Charlotte, North Carolina, in February. Those tickets will be announced soon. And of course I'm doing my monthly show at Mary Lou in New York City on December 16th. The best comics in the city will be coming out and I'll be working out some new material. It is a grand old time. You can get all the tickets at Mark Yagnon Live and I'll see you guys there. Let's get back to the show.

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Mark Gagnon (40:54)

Nerved.

Mark Gagnon (40:56)

But Jesus Story Doesn't End There We've looked at Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism, but what about the less mainstream traditions? What about the Gnostics? So Gnosticism, okay, let me just say this is not really like a organized religion, okay. This is really a tapestry. It's like a complex sort of weaving of a bunch of different beliefs that emerged in the early centuries of Christianity that basically took a bunch of philosophical and religious traditions and kind of put them into one. And at its core, Gnosticism is all about secret knowledge or Gnosis in Greek. And we're not talking about like your like like knowledge, like trivia. Like this is like the deep mystical knowledge that Gnostics believe they could unlock by basically finding spiritual liberation. And through this they're attempting to understand the secrets of the universe and by some definitions become a God themselves. But we'll get to that later. Okay? When it comes to Jesus, Gnostics had some pretty wild ideas that would make a lot of mainstream Christians double take. And there's all sorts of different theories in here, so I'm not going to spend too much time because there's so much. But a lot of Gnostics saw Jesus as divine sure, but not in the way that you might think. So for a lot of Gnostics, Jesus wasn't the Son of God who came to save humanity. No, no. They viewed him as a celestial messenger, a divine sort of missionary sent to Earth with a specific mission to basically drop knowledge on humankind. They see Jesus almost as like a hacker, basically, coming to Earth to give us cheat codes to help escape the material world and gain spiritual enlightenment. So a lot of Gnostics, they basically say, you know, they believe that this world, the physical realm, was a prison created by a lesser, imperfect God known as the Demiurge. And they thought that our true selves are like divine sparks trapped in physical bodies, trying to break free from the physical world and return to the spiritual realm. So for a lot of Gnostics, they see the story of Adam and Eve, the Garden of Eden, almost as an inverse. So, in short, a lot of, you know, Abrahamic philosophy, whether it's Judaism, Islam, Christianity, they see God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Everything was perfect. And then they were tricked by a serpent, by an evil satanic serpent that many Christians will interpret as Lucifer. They basically tricked Eve into eating this forbidden fruit to gain knowledge, and that is ultimately what cast them out of the Garden of Eden and brought sin amongst humankind. Now, for Gnostics, this tradition deviates drastically because they actually see it as flipped. They believe that the God that created Adam and Eve and put them into the Garden of Eden was actually a lesser God, almost an evil being known as the Demiurge, and that the serpent was trying to liberate Adam and Eve and basically give them the gift of knowledge and free them from the shackles of this material world. You can see how that is a complete flip. So how does Jesus fit into that? According to Gnostic belief, Jesus didn't come to die for our sins or establish a church. The real purpose of Jesus was to give secret knowledge, this precious gnosis that they talk about, and basically help, you know, awaken the souls that recognize the true divine nature and find their way back to the spiritual realm. So Jesus was basically coming down to earth to, you know, go against the Demiurge, to help humankind break free and unleash their spiritual spark. Now, here's where things take a turn. Some Gnostic texts will take the idea even further, and they portray Jesus as a purely spiritual being who never actually took a physical form. And in these interpretations, Jesus is like a hologram or a vision. So, for example, the Gospel of Thomas, a famous Gnostic text, presents Jesus as a man who is full of secret sayings that when they're understood they can lead to enlightenment. And this view of Jesus as a spiritual teacher of secret wisdom rather than a physical savior was not popular with early Christian church leaders. And they saw Gnosticism as heresy and very dangerous and threatened the foundation of Christian doctrine. So Arrhenius, a well known 2nd century bishop, harshly criticized Gnostic belief, basically saying that, you know, everything that the Gnostics believe goes against the apostles teachings and denied Jesus's physical incarnation and resurrection, which we know is fundamental to Christian theology. But the Gnostics didn't necessarily go away. They just developed complex mythologies and cosmology to explain their beliefs. And in some Gnostic beliefs, Jesus has seen as one of many divine beings or eons that basically came from the one true God. And these eons formed the pleroma, part of a divine realm of pure spirit. So again, this is a lot, but this is what the Gnostics were teaching in that time. And in that view Jesus was a high ranking sort of messenger who descended into the material world to help the trapped divine sparks, that's all of us, remember their true nature and find their way back to the spiritual realm. And this is kind of like Buddhism in a way that the Bodhisattva was basically someone who has broken free from, you know, the cycles of life, this samsara, but chooses to stay back and help others also reach enlightenment. And the concept of the divine spark is really central to Gnostic thought. They believe that each human being contains a fragment of the divine and that there's a little piece of true God trapped inside of all of us and that our flesh and our matter kind of holds us back. And this spark is our true self and our ticket to liberation. And so the goal of Gnostic practice was basically to awaken this divine spark through knowledge and mystical experiences, ultimately allowing us to break free from this prison and enter into the divine source. Now this idea of divine spark within humans is sort of radical if you think about it. It suggests that we're not just creations of God, but that God is actually within us. And not in like the Christian sense, like you know, like invite Jesus into your heart, but just by being human, that we have God within all of us and we need to awaken our inner God. It's like each of us is carrying around a little piece of the cosmos in our soul. And this concept has a lot of interesting parallels with Eastern traditions and a lot of New age philosophies that really emphasize the specific sort of innate divine nature of human beings. Now, you might be wondering how Gnostics reconcile this view with Jesus and the divine spark within, you know, the New Testament. Well, they have some creative interpretations. So, for example, some Gnostic texts suggest that the crucifixion was an illusion and that it happened to a substitute while the real spiritual Jesus was unharmed. Now, this concept probably sounds familiar because we sort of just spoke about it. It sounds similar to the Islamic view of the crucifixion, that perhaps it wasn't Jesus that died, but it was actually a someone else, someone that took his place. Except in Islam, they actually accept that Jesus was a real person, an actual messenger of God, whereas Gnostics believe that he was a vision or a hologram and that someone else was crucified. Now, the resurrection in the Gnostic view was more about spiritual awakening rather than a physical resurrection. So the Gnostic approach to scripture is very different to mainstream Christianity. They often interpret biblical stories allegorically. They see them as coded message about deeper spiritual truths. This emphasis on hidden meanings and secret knowledge gave Gnosticism a distinctly esoteric feeling. Gnostic groups often had initiation rituals and levels of teaching, with the deepest mysteries reserved for the most advanced initiates. And it was really like a secret society with a real spiritual component, complete with its own coded language and symbols. And, you know, there's many of these groups that have existed in history. The early groups, the Cainites, the Ophites and the Valentinians. And it wasn't all about mystical philosophy. Gnosticism also had practical implications for, you know, how people should live their lives. Some Gnostic groups would practice, like, extreme asceticism, which is a belief that denying the physical body could actually free the spirit and get out that, you know, spark within all of us. Others had the exact opposite approach, and they just went fully into hedonism, which is basically the belief that the material world is an illusion, so why not just enjoy every element of it? And this diversity of Gnostic thought is pretty crazy right there. There are dozens, maybe even hundreds of different Gnostic sects, each with its own unique twist on these basic ideas. And some will incorporate Greek philosophy or Jewish mysticism or Zoroastrianism or Egyptian mystery religions. It was basically just a big spiritual melting pot where they were just grabbing a bunch of different ideas. Now, despite being branded as heretics and persecuted by the mainstream church, Gnostic ideas have stuck around remarkably throughout history and, you know, even been brought up in different esoteric traditions. Even today, as a matter of Fact, Gnostic ideas appear in a lot of new age philosophies that really emphasize this hidden spiritual knowledge. So esoteric movements like theosophy and certain forms of mysticism really promote this escape of the material world and awakening to a higher reality, much like the Gnostics taught, you know, 2,000 years ago. You can even see this in quantum physics with this idea of multiple realities, the illusion of physical existence, simulation theory, consciousness shaping our reality, not, you know, reality shaping our consciousness. Things like that start to really parallel in, you know, our understanding of Gnostic belief. Matter of fact, a lot of people say that pop culture reflects these themes. So the Matrix is kind of seen as, you know, almost like a Gnostic allegory, which basically portrays like, this, you know, fake world that is an illusion controlled by these unseen forces and that, you know, you must basically awaken your inner spark to escape it. Even the Truman show is kind of like a version of this. You have this, you know, artificial constructed world where Jim Carrey is living inside of it and ultimately has to escape. So the Gnostic view of Jesus is effectively just that of a bringer of secret knowledge and that ultimately he was here to awaken the God within all of us. It challenges us to look, you know, beyond the surface and find deeper truths. And of course, this is a massive deviation from mainstream Christianity at any rate. That is the more or less the philosophy of Jesus within Gnosticism. So we've talked a little bit about pop culture and film. What does Tom Cruise have to say about this? That's right. We're going into Scientology. Okay. Which we probably should do just a whole episode on Scientology in general, because it's kind of a fascinating sort of religious belief. And if you don't know, it is the sort of religious philosophy of L. Ron Hubbard, a famous science fiction writer that created this sort of philosophy in the 1950s. And it is a faith that sort of blends Eastern philosophy with Western psychology and a bunch of fascinating cosmology. And we'll get into all that at a different time. But where does Jesus fit into this? Okay, well, first off, Scientology doesn't actually ignore Jesus. They acknowledge him as a historical and spiritual figure, but they don't put him on the pedestal that Christianity does. Scientology sees Jesus as a wise teacher who had some good ideas and lived a good life, but they don't really acknowledge him as the savior of humanity. In fact, Scientology doesn't really focus on Jesus or his teachings at all. Their approach to spirituality is more about personal development and self discovery rather than Worshiping, you know, a deity or following ancient scriptures. Matter of fact, Scientology's founder, L. Ron Hubbard, actually wrote that Scientology shares the same goals set for man by Christ, which are wisdom, good health, and immortality. But don't mistake this for an endorsement of Christian theology or Christ himself. Hubbard was more interested in the practical aspects of Jesus's teaching rather than the divine nature or his role as a messiah. Scientology believes Jesus is one of many wise teachers throughout history, like Buddha or Muhammad or other spiritual leaders. Basically, like, Scientology is just like, hey, you can learn from all the teachers. Why limit yourself to just one? And the goal isn't to be saved from sin, but to become fully aware of your true nature as a spiritual being. And in their view, Jesus wasn't dying for our sins, but showing us how to live and to reach our potential as human beings. So Scientology, really, to get into it, has its own cosmology and its own belief system that doesn't really mesh with traditional Christian ideas. They don't believe in heaven or hell in the traditional Christian sense. Instead, they talk about Satans and past lives. And in this context, Jesus is seen as an advanced spiritual being who had a high level of awareness. So Scientologists might call him, you know, a shade above clear. And in Scientology, the idea of clear refers to a state in which an individual has been freed from the influence of this reactive mind, effectively achieving mental clarity and freedom from irrational thoughts or behaviors or emotion, kind of being enlightened in a way. But here's where things will actually connect a little bit. You know, Scientology doesn't focus on Jesus, but some of their ideas about spiritual development have parallels with a lot of Jesus's teachings. So, for example, they both emphasize the importance of personal transformation and becoming a better version of yourself. And it's just, you know, Scientology's approach has its own methodology and, you know, things like auditing and studying L. Ron Hubbard's writings rather than, you know, the Bible or prayer, even seeing Jesus as the Messiah. So Scientology's view of Jesus also reflects their own approach to religion and interfaith relationships in general. They claim to be compatible with other faiths. Scientologists can maintain their previous religious affiliations, but sort of Scientology's teachings often override or reshape those beliefs. And as a result, their attitudes toward Jesus and other religious figures is a part of Scientology's broader claims to be, like, pan denominational, basically like a religion that can coexist and even enhance all the other religions. So what they're basically saying is, like, hey, we're not here to replace your religion. We are just going to kind of insert your religion into our framework so that it can be enhanced again. That is Scientology's view. That's not my view. It's also worth noting that Scientology's view of Jesus and religion in general has been a major source of controversy. You know, traditional Christians often find their perspective on Jesus to be dismissive or heretical. After all, reducing Jesus from the son of God to just another wise teacher is a pretty big leap for traditional Christians. But Scientology is not really concerned with aligning itself with Christian theology. They're more focused on, you know, their own path to personal development and spiritual enlightenment and ultimately going clear. And this process involves ridding oneself of negative influence and past lives and ultimately becoming the operating thetan, a, you know, state of spiritual awareness and ability that goes beyond human experience. So in this context, Jesus can be seen as someone who has achieved this level of spiritual awareness, but he's not the end goal. Scientologists are ultimately aiming for something beyond what they believe Jesus achieved. They're basically saying, like, hey, Jesus was cool. His teachings were great, but we're trying to go even further, that we can actually go farther than Jesus ever went in his life. And, of course, to Christians and many other people that see Jesus as divine in some capacity, this is extremely heretical. But this focus on personal development and sort of spiritual growth rather than devotion is, you know, for some people, a major appeal of Scientology. You know, it offers this path, but it doesn't require, you know, the supernatural or submission to God or all of these things for you to overcome life's obstacles. And, of course, there are tons of other, you know, things within Scientology and the worldview that Scientology preaches that sort of don't jive with mainstream Christianity or many other religions for that matter. But that is a brief sort of overview for how Christianity kind of maps into Scientology. So I think that's pretty good. We. We ran through a bunch of those. You know, I think now you should have a pretty good understanding of how most people on this big blue planet think about Jesus Christ. Just to recap, Christians will see Jesus as the son of God, savior of humanity, for Muslims, a powerful prophet, but not God. Judaism. He's a historical figure and a. For some, a wise rabbi. And Buddhists will see him as an enlightened teacher. You know, Hindus will see Jesus as potentially a guru and someone who taught wonderful teachings that even inspired Mahatma Gandhi. Gnostics believe that Jesus was the bringer of secret knowledge that could free People from the material world. And for Scientology, he is acknowledged and can sometimes map within the worldview of Scientology, but is not the main focus. Now, what's wild and I think undeniable about Jesus Christ is that this person, whoever you think that he may be God or a rabbi or a prophet or, you know, a wise teacher, is one of the most notorious and influential teachers of all of human history. I mean, 2,000 years later, people are still debating who this person was and how he maps onto their worldviews, and most historical figures, you know, will fade into obscurity. But Jesus is still shaping religious thoughts and inspiring movements and, you know, getting referenced in places that you wouldn't expect, in worldviews and theologies that maybe you've never even heard of. And this isn't just a collection of, like, random facts. It says a lot about how different cultures think about these big questions. You know, if you're Christian, if you know that Muslims also respect Jesus, you might realize that, hey, there's some common ground. And if you're not religious, it's really fascinating to see how one person has influenced so many different belief systems. I think most importantly, just understanding different perspectives and understanding different religions and how people interface with Jesus Christ just kind of makes you a more well rounded person. You know, nobody likes the dude who just like shuts down a conversation, just like, nope, you disagree with me. I'm not listening to anything you say. And by learning these different interpretations, you can really have like, real discussion and find the common ground and know how to talk to people. Whether you're a Hindu talking to a Christian or, you know, a Jewish person talking to a Muslim, you can understand that there is a lot of similarity to what many people believe. Even if there are major convergence on, you know, massive theological issues. And at the end of the day, learning about different takes of Jesus isn't about proving who's right or wrong. Of course, I'm sure you have your own belief and as do I, but it's about realizing that across all these different perspectives, people have spent thousands of years wrestling with the same big ideas. That is, you know, who is God, what does it mean to, you know, be spiritual and have a relationship with God? And ultimately, where are we going? Where did we come from? And what does it actually mean to live a purpose filled life? So the next time someone brings up religion and conversation, you don't have to shut it down. You can listen, you can ask questions, see where it takes you, and who knows? I hope that this video and this episode on the teachings of Jesus will at least inform some of that conversation. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what every religion believes about Jesus Christ. Well, it's. Again, it's always interesting to me. I remember the first time I was reading about the role of Jesus in Islam. I was just, like, so surprised. And even being around my Muslim friends and them saying, like, oh, yeah, peace be upon the prophet Esau. I was like, whoa, that's crazy. And once again, I just think that the greatest way to connect with people is to understand what they believe and why they believe it and how that affects their culture, even if they're not religious. Just growing up in a culture, almost undoubtedly you will have been imbued with these religious ideas that shape the way that your brain works. So for me, in my attempt to understand humanity and just be a better human being, I like to know what everyone out here is believing. And specifically on this point, I think it offers a lot of insight. I don't know, Christos, you're named after the guy himself. Did you learn anything? It's kind of crazy how everyone acknowledges that he existed. So it's a matter of who's right. And almost everyone likes what he was teaching. Like, I think that's also really cool. Like, basically everyone's like, no, the teaching is solid. Which I think should just be a. I don't know, for me, growing up Christian, like, I'm. I still uphold that. Like, the Gospels are, like, the most significant writings of, you know, human history. I'm, like, so profoundly moved by the Gospels every time I read them. And I think all people, regardless if you're religious, not religious, if you're Christian, whatever. I think just acknowledging Jesus Christ and his teachings is a valuable methodology. Even if you're like, you know what? I don't do religion. I think everyone can read Jesus teachings and be like, hey, care for the poor, care for the hungry, care for the sick, give of yourselves and put other people's needs above your own. Everyone around the world, no matter who you are, I think can get on board with it.

Mark Gagnon (61:14)

So what are you going to do today? Well said. Are you going to go out and serve the. Serve the needy? I do that every day. That's what I know. That's. I do. By that, do you mean just, like, feeding yourself? Absolutely. Okay. Christ. Exactly right. That is. That is the beauty. If you. If you just stay poor and stay needy, if you take care of yourselves, then you're doing what God asked. Let's not get political. All right? All right, guys. That is, whatever Religion believes about Jesus Christ. Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Religion Camp. I appreciate we do these every single Sunday. If there is a topic that you would like to see discussed, please drop it in the comments. I read all of them so be nice about it. And the top comment on this video and all the future videos going forward will get some free merch. We'll be hooking you guys up with some Religion Camp merch. We'll figure out a way to get it to you. And as always, if there's anything I missed, anything I got wrong with your faith, tradition, or others that you may know about, please drop a comment and don't hesitate to to correct me. I am always in the interest of learning and I just have a desire to pursue truth. Thank you so much for tuning into another episode and I will see y' all in the future. Peace be with you.

Mark Gagnon (62:18)

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