The Ruthless Reign Of a Tyrant: Henry VIII

Summary

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The Ruthless Reign Of a Tyrant: Henry VIII

Camp Gagnon – Host: Mark Gagnon
Episode Date: January 28, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the tumultuous reign of King Henry VIII, dissecting the legendary monarch’s journey from a Renaissance prince bred for the Church, to a ruthless tyrant who tore England from the papacy, transformed the nation’s religious landscape, and left a legacy of violence, paranoia, and irreversible change. Host Mark Gagnon, joined by frequent contributors Christos and David, blends storytelling, historical insight, and humor in a gripping exploration of Henry’s obsession with succession, his six infamous marriages, and the seismic shifts that still shape England today.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins and Early Life

• Born the Spare, Not the Heir:
  Henry VIII (b. 1491) was not expected to rule—his older brother Arthur was the designated heir, while young Henry was prepared for a life in the Church.

  • “He is the second son, AKA the backup plan, as they say. The spare, not the heir.” (04:04)

• Renaissance Upbringing:
  Henry was well-educated, engaging with leading thinkers like Thomas More and Erasmus, and excelled in music, sports, and theology.

  • “He ended up becoming something sort of rare for royalty, which is like a genuine Renaissance kid.” (05:00)

• Arthur’s Death Changes Everything:
  Arthur’s sudden death in 1502 thrust Henry into the line of succession, setting the stage for his reign.

2. Early Reign and Marriage to Catherine of Aragon

• A Beloved Young King:
  Henry ascended in 1509 at 17—charismatic, athletic, the embodiment of Renaissance ideals.

  • “He was tall and charismatic and athletic and just in every way the Renaissance ideal...” (06:19)

• Political Marriage to Catherine:
  Married his brother’s widow, Catherine of Aragon, with papal dispensation—the legality and morality of which would haunt his reign.

• Initial Popularity:
  England embraced their new king and queen. Henry even authored a work defending Catholicism, earning the title “Defender of the Faith” from the Pope.

  • “He wrote a book defending Catholicism against Martin Luther... The Pope loved it so much that he literally gave Henry the title Fidei Defensor.” (09:17)

3. Cracks in the Golden Age

• Succession Crisis:
  Despite many pregnancies, Catherine only produced one surviving child, Mary. Henry’s desperation for a male heir grew—especially after producing an illegitimate son, Henry Fitzroy, with a mistress.

• Shifting European Landscape:
  England was caught between France and the vast Habsburg Empire. Henry’s foreign policy and lavish spending strained the treasury.

• Anne Boleyn's Rise:
  Anne Boleyn refused to be Henry’s mistress, insisting on marriage. This ignited Henry’s obsession and set the stage for seismic upheaval.

  • “Anne was not playing hard to get... She was playing to win.” (22:00)

4. Divorce, Break with Rome, and Creation of the Church of England

• Annullment Saga:
  Unable to secure a male heir, Henry sought annulment on biblical grounds. But Catherine was the aunt of Charles V, whose control over Rome made papal approval politically impossible.

• Desperation and Rebellion:
  Cardinal Wolsey’s failure to secure an annulment led to his fall and death. Henry, frustrated, severed England from papal authority.

• Church of England Established:
  In 1534, the Act of Supremacy made Henry head of the new Church of England—primarily for personal and political control, not religious reform.

  • “He didn’t break with Rome out of faith. He broke with Rome out of control. And he wanted total control.” (25:12)

• Anne Boleyn Becomes Queen:
  Anne and Henry marry secretly before the annulment; their daughter Elizabeth (born 1533) marked another disappointment for Henry.

5. Repression, Power Consolidation, and Religious Upheaval

• Dissolution of the Monasteries (1536–1540):
  Henry’s minister, Cromwell, orchestrated the destruction of monastic life. Lands and treasures were confiscated, devastating social safety nets.

• Widespread Executions:
  Resistance was brutally crushed (e.g., Pilgrimage of Grace); even loyal servants like Thomas More and Cromwell were executed.

  • “Henry could bring you up, but he could also destroy you just as quick.” (28:25)

• Climate of Fear:
  Laws made dissent, rumors, or jokes treasonous.

6. Personal Decline and Heightened Tyranny

• The 1536 Jousting Accident:
  A catastrophic injury—possibly a traumatic brain injury—left Henry with chronic pain, impaired judgment, and explosive temperament.

  • “Modern neurologists look at Henry’s behavior after 1536, and they see classic signs of traumatic brain injury.” (33:15)

• Marriage Turmoil:
  Anne Boleyn was executed after baseless charges; Jane Seymour died after bearing Henry his only male heir, Edward; subsequent marriages to Anne of Cleves (quickly annulled), Catherine Howard (executed), and Catherine Parr (survived) illustrated Henry’s instability and paranoia.

7. The End of Henry’s Reign and Aftermath

• A Haunted Legacy:
  By 1547, Henry was obese, ailing, and unpredictable, leaving behind three children—each unhappily positioned for succession.

• Successors and the Aftershocks:

  • Edward VI (Protestant reforms, early death)
  • Mary I (Bloody Mary): Attempted Catholic restoration, violent persecutions
  • Elizabeth I: Stabilized the realm, laid foundations for England’s Golden Age—all on the wreckage Henry created

• Long-Lasting Impacts:
  Henry’s actions created centuries of religious conflict and transformed the English monarchy, paving the way for both Protestant England and a more centralized state.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Henry’s Upbringing:
  “This is a symbol of unity, or at least a symbol of what Henry VII wanted the world to believe.” (04:45)

• On the Irony of Henry’s Reign:
  “He wanted greatness, but ended up just securing infamy.” (49:32)

• On the Personality Shift after the Accident:
  “This charismatic prince of the early years is now gone. And in his place is a man who could turn on anyone. Friends became enemies overnight.” (44:43)

• On Henry’s Motives for Religious Schism:
  “He didn’t break with Rome out of faith. He broke with Rome out of control.” (25:12)

• On Anne Boleyn’s Fate:
  “Four months later, Anne was dead... May 19, 1536, proclaiming her innocence. Eleven days later, Henry marries Jane Seymour.” (36:15)

• Discussing the Aftermath:
  “Elizabeth built an England out of the rubble that her father left behind. But none of her achievements would have ever been possible without Henry’s destruction.” (47:15)

• On Historical Ironies:
  “All the marriages, the executions, the upheaval, and the secession landed exactly where Henry didn’t want it to go.” (50:57)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Introduction and setting the stage | | 04:00 | Henry’s royal background and Tudor propaganda | | 06:19 | Young Henry: Renaissance ideal | | 09:17 | Defender of the Faith and early Catholic loyalty | | 12:40 | Succession crisis and Henry Fitzroy | | 18:20 | The rise of Anne Boleyn | | 22:00 | Anne’s refusal and Henry’s obsession | | 25:12 | Break with Rome and religious power shift | | 28:20 | Brutality: dissolution of monasteries and repression| | 33:15 | The 1536 jousting accident and Henry’s decline | | 36:15 | Anne Boleyn’s execution, Jane Seymour’s death | | 44:00 | Final years: paranoia, cruelty, disintegration | | 47:15 | Elizabeth’s inheritance and England’s transformation| | 49:00 | Religious conflict and lasting impact | | 51:54 | Post-mortem discussion and Christos’s reflections |

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Additional Highlights

• Modern Parallels and Humor:
  The hosts compare Henry’s jousting to Teddy Roosevelt’s reckless exploits, poking fun at how “game recognized game” when Henry excused the jousting mishap. (57:59)

• Role of Gender and High Testosterone:
  A lighthearted discussion about the myth that men with daughters have higher testosterone, joking that Henry’s misfortune in having daughters “was actually his fault all along.” (62:08)

• Dissecting “Bloody Mary”:
  Mark and Christos connect the infamous “Bloody Mary” urban legend to the historic Mary I, with comic disbelief at the overlap. (59:01)

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Takeaways

• Henry’s reign was one of both dazzling promise and devastating destruction. His quest for a male heir realigned Europe’s religious map, decimated cultural heritage, and birthed a new era for England—at massive human cost.

• The episode underscores the complex motivations behind historical change: Henry’s break from Rome was driven by power and personal obsession, not Protestant conviction.

• The legacy of Henry VIII is still visible today, from the enduring Church of England to the ruins of monasteries dotting the English landscape—and in the persistent debate about the nature of leadership and the relationship between character, circumstance, and history.

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“Ultimately, he wanted glory, but instead he created chaos. He claimed divine authority, but had to rule his kingdom through fear. He wanted greatness, but ended up just securing infamy.”
– Mark Gagnon [49:32]

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For listeners seeking more: The hosts encourage feedback, corrections, and engagement with both History Camp and its religion-focused sibling, Religion Camp.

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Transcript

[Mark Gagnon]

The most infamous king in English history wasn't born to rule. He was trained for the Church. He began as a loyal Catholic defending the Pope in Rome. He was even honored as a defender of the faith. And then a single divorce challenged Rome and the Church refused to bend. So he broke England away from the Vatican and made himself the head of England's church. This is the story of Henry VIII and how faith, power and obsession changed England forever. So sit back, relax, and welcome to History Camp. What's up, people? And welcome back to History Camp. My name is Mark Gagnon and thank you for joining me in my tent where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from all history, from all time, forever. Yes, this is my attempt to understand everything that's ever happened on this big, beautiful planet. And it wouldn't be possible without you. Yes, you, the people at home listening right now. While you're at work hanging out, you know, washing dishes, whatever you're doing, I appreciate you for tuning in and keeping the fire burning. Speaking of which, we just launched X Communities, which sounds like what they did to King Henry viii. But no, this is the place where I'm going to be tapping in with all the lovely campers out there in the world and want to chit chat with me and other like minded folks. Doctors, engineers, lawyers, surgeons. What I'm telling you, this is, these are the people that listen to the show. They're some of the most highly. They're the biggest intellectuals of our day and age. If Voltaire and Descartes were alive, they would be tuning into camp. But you can check it out. We got it in the description and in the comments or somewhere, wherever Christos put it. Speaking of which, Christos, how are you, pal? All right, all right, Christos, we don't have time, all right? Because we're talking about King Henry vii. I'm also joined by my friend David who does ads for the pod. He's also just a pal.

[Christos]

He's really.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's what just diminished the importance of being here. It's hard to build you up when I just talked about how sick Christos is and how awesome and, and all the awesome escapades he's going on.

[Christos]

Confidant, friend, bestie, consigliati.

[Mark Gagnon]

Anyway, where do we begin with King Henry vii? You probably know about his infamous marriages, his lineage of women and his inability to have a boy. You know about. Probably just the general stuff, right? You knew he was fat, but going to get into all the details, everything you didn't know and truly what made this guy so obsessed with his secession? Why he broke the, you know, the entire country of England from the Vatican, why he created his own church and everything in between. So where does this story begin? We're going to go all the way back to June 1491 at a small little, you know, small little home called Greenwich Palace. This is where a sweet baby boy is born. Henry Tudor to King Henry vii. He is the second son, AKA the backup plan, as they say. The spare, not the heir. Most people assumed that he'd end up in the church someday, not running a full blown kingdom. Now, his father was a man who was, you know, he basically ended the War of the Roses by sheer determination and strategy. And he married a woman named Elizabeth of York. Uniting the Houses of Lancaster in York, that is a big deal. This is where you get the famous Tudor rose, that red, white, you know, petaled, woven together thing. This is a symbol of unity, or at least a symbol of what Henry VII wanted the world to believe. It looked really neat and pretty on banners and stuff, even if the actual politics underneath it was anything but that. Now, over time, largely through, you know, Tudor propaganda, that symbol became embedded as English heritage and monarchy found in emblems and on money and, you know, military badges and sports, everything you can imagine that's associated with the heritage of England. Now, growing up, Henry lived in the shadow of his older brother Arthur, the golden heir that everyone expected to eventually one day secede his father and become, you know, the next king. Now, Arthur was trained to be the king. Henry was educated with the expectation that, you know, he's going to be involved in the church and typically, you know, that's how these things go, right? You have the ruling class, the, you know, dominant monarchy, the political force, and then you have the religious class. And if you are a prudent ruler, you're going to have multiple sons and you put them into different avenues. That way you can keep all the power with the family. So King Henry, or Henry at the time was studying theology and got swept up in these, you know, new humanist ideas spreading across Europe, ideas that focus on classical learning and critical thinking and what it means to be human. And he ended up becoming something sort of rare for loyalty, which is like a genuine Renaissance kid. He wasn't just smart, he was physically gifted too. He could knock like knights out of their saddles. And he was like, making music that people liked. And he debated scripture with top scholars from around Europe. So through England's, you know, more enlightened circles, he was learning from you know, acclaimed lawyer and, you know, church scholar, Thomas More. And then Erasmus. Yes, literally, that Erasmus likely visited him at eltham palace in 1499. And he was, you know, he walked away from his conversation with Henry, who was then just 8 years old, and he was so impressed by how sharp he was. And then one day, everything shifts for old Prince Henry. April 1502, his brother Arthur dies. Some say that he died from consumption, which is kind of like a, you know, medieval term for tuberculosis. Others say that he developed a sweating sickness. Basically, it was this terrifying disease that would come on in a few hours and, you know, within a few days you'd be dead. We still don't know the exact cause, but modern analysis of Arthur's remains still can't even solve it. But one thing is clear, that Henry's life changes immediately. Despair, all of a sudden is on track to lead the monarchy now. This whole church dream that his family had is now gone and the crown is just waiting for him. So when Henry VII dies in 1509, 17 year old prince Henry steps into the throne looking nothing like the bloated, you know, infamous fat guy that everyone thinks about. He was tall and charismatic and athletic and he was just in every way the Renaissance ideal. He spoke multiple languages and, you know, was a musician. He was a jousting champion and he understood theology so well that it was impressing actual members of clergy. And within weeks, he married Catherine of Aragon, Arthur's widow. Awkward. The marriage needed a special papal dispensation because church law prohibited marrying a brother's widow, but the Pope granted it, though the biblical grounds were, you know, still debated. Right. The book of Leviticus was, you know, forbidding this, while Deuteronomy appeared to, like, allow it if the brother died childless, yada, yada, yada. All he needs to know is that the Pope was cool with it. And there they were, King Henry and Catherine. And England loved him. After years under, you know, his father, Henry VII's, like, cautious rule, people suddenly had a king that was spending lavishly and wore beautiful clothes and he danced and he made music and he fought. I mean, he was just the pinnacle of what it meant to be a king. By 1521, he even wrote a book defending Catholicism against Martin Luther. Yeah, you know, that not King the og Martin Luther, you know, the one, the guy that nine to five theses, you know, the reformed the church, yada, yada, yada. All you need to know is that the Pope loved it. And he loved it so much that he literally gave Henry the Title fide defensor. This is the Defender of the Faith, One of the highest honors you can get from the Pope. Which, considering what we're going to find out about Henry viii, it's kind of ironic. But even in these early, glamorous years, there were these tiny cracks that were starting to form in his rule. Yes, he was charming, but he also hated to be challenged. He believed deeply, so absolutely in his own rightness. And of course, he was a smart guy and, you know, people even admired him as a kid. So by the time he's an adult, he's like, yeah, who's going to challenge me? And thanks to, you know, this Renaissance education that he got, he absorbed this dangerous idea that kings answer only to God, not to any earthly institution. Because he had so much, you know, biblical and theological background, he was able to justify it. And so those seeds of tyranny were already planted from a young age, hidden under all that promise. And as the years rolled on, the distance between, like, this ideal, know, enlightened Renaissance prince and this, you know, absolute monarch that wants to separate his country from the church kept shrinking. Eventually, those two versions of Henry would collide with consequences that, you know, didn't just upend marriages or, you know, get his ex wives killed, but literally just tore England's entire religious world apart. Now, before Henry even married his first wife, Catherine of Aragon, she had technically already been queen, at least for a little bit. So back in 1501, she arrived in England at 15 years old, a Spanish princess meant to, you know, seal this major political alliance and marries Henry's older brother, Arthur. And the wedding was everything that you would expect, right? It's this huge ceremony with all the symbolism, the uniting of these two, you know, political alliances and, you know, massive expectations. And then just five months later, Arthur's dead. So that left Catherine stuck in England in a very awkward way. Right? She's too valuable to send back to Spain, but also too politically complicated to fully commit to a new suitor. So she spent the next seven years in kind of this strange limbo. Her house was underfunded and her rank was sort of blurry. Like, was she the princess, the queen to be? Meanwhile, her father Ferdinand and Henry VII argued over her future like two businessmen trying to figure out, like, a deal. And hovering over all of this was the question, one that wouldn't matter so much at the time, but would one day tear all of England apart. The big question was, did Catherine and Arthur consummate the marriage? Now, you understand what this means? Catherine swears that they didn't, which is tough, right? I promise. Dude, it's still good. All right, now, Arthur, you gotta understand, he was sick, all right? Like, you know, this, this. This consuming that he had, not consummation consuming. Like, if he had tuberculosis or, you know, the sweating sickness, he wasn't feeling well from the get go. So this marriage is short, and the bedding, if, if you will, according to her, never happened. And biblically, it matters. If Arthur dies childless, then Henry is allowed to marry her. And Henry believed her, the Pope believed her, and dispensation is approved. So when Henry marries her in 1509, the whole issue was done right. In those early years, England genuinely looked like it was stepping into this new golden age. Henry was obsessed with this idea of martial glory. He wanted to be the new Henry V and reclaim French lands and prove that he was a warrior king and bring England to a height that it had never seen. And in 1513, he launched an invasion of France. And it cost a fortune and achieved basically nothing. They captured, like, two small towns, and that was basically it. But while Henry was off trying to, you know, be this medieval hero, Catherine was back at home doing something more impressive. She was, in a way, running the country, and she was very good at it. When James IV of Scotland used Henry's absence to invade England, Catherine reacted instantly. She mobilized an army, sent them north under the Earl of Surrey, and watched as the Scots were crushed at Flodden Field. Seven to 10,000 Scots died that day, including their king. Catherine sent Henry James IV's bloodstained coat, suggesting that he might want to use it as a banner. She's not like a decorative trophy queen. She was like a real military leader. But military victories can't secure a dynasty, right? Only heirs can, and more specifically, only sons. So Catherine becomes pregnant pretty quickly, but the baby was stillborn. And then came another pregnancy. A son finally right, who only lived 52 days. And then another, and then another. And nine years. She endured six or more pregnancies, but only one child survived. Mary, who was born in 1516. And Henry adored Mary, but everyone knew the truth, that a daughter can't guarantee the Tudor line. And last time England tried a reigning queen, Empress matilda, in the 1100s, it spiraled into, like, 20 years of civil war. And Henry knows this, so he starts looking for signs. And in 1519, he got one. Or at least he thought that he did. His mistress, Elizabeth Blount, gave birth to a healthy son. Henry proudly named him Henry Fitzroy. And by 1525, he made him Duke of Richmond, a title that basically is just telling everyone, like, hey, this is a potential error. This. This guy could do it. So to Henry Fitzroy's existence proved that the problem wasn't him. Who is it? It's Catherine. Meanwhile, the political world around him was shifting really quickly and not in England's favor, because grand European power games that are always going on. England wasn't top tier. It was stuck between two giants. Francis the first of France and Charles V, a Habsburg emperor whose empire stretched basically across half the continent. Now, Henry was the ambitious outsider. He was coming in to shake up the whole game and was determined to prove England deserved a place among them. So every war, every summit, every dazzling display, it wasn't just ego. Of course. Ego was a part of it, but it was Henry forcing Europe to treat him and the rest of England as a serious power, not the loud king of a little island on the edge of the map. So Henry spent enormous amounts of money trying to play this diplomatic game, including the field of the Cloth of Gold in 1520. This was a massive, glittering meeting with Francis the First of France that basically proved one thing. Kings can spend a lot of money without really doing anything. Then Henry pinned his hopes on an alliance with his nephew, the young Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V. But Charles had no interest in being the sidekick to England. So by 1527, that alliance is basically done. And Charles controlled an empire stretching across Spain, Netherlands, and even into Italy and the expanding lands in the New World. And Catherine, well, she was his aunt. This connection would soon become Henry's worst nightmare ever, because by 1527, Henry believed that he had three reasons, three justifications to basically change everything. One, a theological argument to end his marriage. Two, a political argument to break away from Rome, and three personal reasons. And that personal reason was a woman named Anne Boleyn. So by the late 1520s, a brilliant young king who once seemed destined for greatness and to, you know, reclaim England and bring it into the world stage, started to feel boxed in. He had this marriage without kids or without sons specifically. And diplomatic failures that kind of isolated England even more. And by the growing belief that God was punishing him for marrying his brother's widow, all that pressure was building towards this moment that would just change England forever. And it would all begin with one man's obsession and one woman who refused to be the side piece. Now, Anne Boleyn wasn't considered a classic Tudor beauty, not if you listen to the people writing at the time, according to descriptions, which, again, I'm not bashing a you Know, a woman here, she had dark eyes, a long neck, slim, striking face. But what really set her apart was her mind. In. In a court where women were kind of just expect to, like, smile and wave and stay quiet. This sharp mind could be dangerous. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break real quick because we gotta have some real talk, all right? 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It is a natural support for your testosterone. Look, you can buy all of these, you know, supplements separately or you can just go to Mars Men and get it all in one case. Now let's get back to the show. Ann had spent years in the French court absorbing culture and politics and understanding this social game. She learned how influence works and, you know, how to be subtle and strategic and intellectual. So when Henry VIII started pursuing her in 1526, she did something that no one saw coming. The king's like, yo, can I get that? And she says, nah. She goes, not like a timid, like, oh, I mustn't, but like a firm, like, no, I'm not going to be your side piece. I'm not going to be a mistress. If he wanted her, you got to, you got to wipe me up, put a ring on it. And that decision, as simple as it sounds, lit the fuse that would basically blow apart the English courts and really the entire religious landscape of Europe. Henry was obsessed. He wanted what he couldn't have. We still have the letters he wrote to her. Emotional and frustrated like, kind of needy, especially for, like, a king. This was a guy who never got told no in his life and suddenly is begging for the attention of a woman who just kind of kept him at a distance. Which, I'm just saying, if there's any ladies listening, you can use that to your advantage. Right? It worked on Henry viii. Like, it'll work on Joe that, you know, as a mechanic or something. Like, just be like, hey, I'm good.

[Christos]

But works on me every day.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, right. It happens like, you want what you can't have. That's just. That's natural. But Anne was not playing hard to get. She was playing to win. Her sister Mary had been Henry's mistress and was just kind of discarded whenever he was bored. And Anne refused to have the same fate. She wanted legitimacy and security and ultimately to climb this political game and have children who would eventually inherit the throne. Now, of course, Henry has a problem. Its wife, Catherine of Aragon, which these wives always getting in the way. You know what I mean? Of you just smashing this French courtier. What a shame, right? Henry didn't need a divorce because at the time, divorce wasn't even a thing. Like, in Catholic Europe, like, you can't get divorced. What he needs is an annulment. Now, an annulment is. It sounds specific and pedantic, but it is a significant thing. So an annulment basically says that the marriage never happened in the first place. So there's a few things within church doctrine that will allow for an annulment. But as the Catholics say, what is united by God can't be separated by man. So his argument was Scripture, Leviticus 20:21. He says that, basically, it warns that if a man marries his brother's widow, the marriage will be childless. And he's like, hey, check this out. Now, Henry is conveniently ignoring the fact that he did have a child to marry, but in his mind, the lack of sons meant that it is, you know, effectively childless and that God was cursing his marriage. Now, Cardinal Thomas Wolsey, Henry's chief minister, was given this impossible task of trying to get an annulment and going to the pope and being like, hey, this marriage was illegitimate. He's actually not married. Now, Wolsey was one of the most powerful men in Europe. He was rich and brilliant and even feared in some circles, but even he couldn't solve this. But the pope had a bigger problem. Catherine's nephew, Remember this guy, Charles V, the Holy Roman Emperor? He had recently sacked Rome. He was essentially holding the Pope hostage. There was no universe in which Clement VII could declare Charles aunt's marriage invalid and her daughter illegitimate. So to make that make sense, the Pope's in a tough spot, right? If he says, hey, this whole thing is, you know, actually not. Not the case, then all of a sudden he's one hostage by Charles and he's basically saying like, hey, your aunt is illegitimately married, and as a result, their kid is a bastard child. So the Pope is stalled, and as a result, he's delaying and he's just hoping that this whole thing would kind of blow over. But it doesn't. Woolsey fought for years to secure this annulment, but failed. And Henry ultimately turned on him. And in 1529, Wolsey was stripped of his offices. By 1530, he was arrested for treason, specifically for corresponding with Rome and the Pope without royal permission, a charge that showed just how quickly Henry's priorities had shifted from sort of, you know, making the Pope happy to just trying to dominate them. Now, Wolsey died on his way to London, avoiding an execution that was almost certainly going to happen. Before he died, he reportedly said, if I had served God as diligently as I have the king, which is a pretty perfect summary of life under Henry viii, that he could bring you up, but he could also destroy you just as quick. Now, with Woolsey gone, Henry decided to take matters into his own hands. Right. If the Pope is not going to give him the annulment in order to get a new wife to have a son to maintain his power, then the Pope's got to go. And ultimately England is going to rule itself. The church's foundation is now cracking new books, vernacular Bibles, blistering critiques of corruption. Hints of Luther's ideas are now coming into England. Even some of Henry's own courtiers were quietly reading them, wondering if Rome might not be the unshakable power that it claimed to be. Now, here's the part that people misunderstand, that Henry wasn't this Protestant revolutionary. His beliefs stayed conservative. Mass and sacraments, ritual, all these things that a Catholic boy would hold on to. He didn't break with Rome out of faith. He broke with Rome out of control. And he wanted total control. So by 1534, Parliament passed the act of Supremacy, declaring Henry the supreme head of the Church of England. And again, this isn't about religion. This is about power, control of the doctrine and the appointments and the land, and ultimately, who's allowed to divorce who. Now, by this point, Henry had already secretly married Anne Boleyn in January 1533, and great news. She's pregnant. In September, she gave birth. And Henry had convinced himself that God is going to give him a son, and he didn't, and delivered a daughter by the name of Elizabeth. And the disappointment, as you can imagine, is immediate. Oh, that gender reveal would have been awesome. I mean, all time, just Henry in the background, just like, what the. So Henry's pissed, but he decides to push forward, right? Anne is now the Queen. Catherine is downgraded to Princess Dowager, which is a tough name. And Mary is declared under, you know, the monarchy of England as illegitimate. And then came one of the biggest shocks in English history, the dissolution of the monasteries. So starting in 1536, Henry's new minister, Thomas Cromwell, began dismantling monastic life across England. Now, Cromwell was very smart and extremely loyal to Henry's vision, but also extremely ruthless. Commissioners toured the monasteries and returned with exactly the kind of accusations that Cromwell needed, which is immorality and disloyalty and corruption. Smaller monasteries were shut down first. Their lands were confiscated and given over to the king. And then the larger ones fell one by one. And by 1540, every monastery in England was gone. I mean, just the numbers of this are crazy. 800 religious houses, churches, rectories, everything destroyed. 12,000 monks, nuns and friars were displaced. Priceless manuscripts just burned and lost forever. Medieval buildings just stripped and abandoned. And in this whole shakeup, the Crown gained roughly 1.3 million pounds, roughly half a billion dollars in today's money. And Henry spent it all almost immediately. For ordinary people, the impact was pretty clear, right? I mean, you have to think, all these people in England had been Catholic for generations, and these monasteries provided, you know, char and hospitals and schools and helped poor people. And then suddenly, all those safety nets are gone. Meanwhile, prices are climbing. As you know, these debased coins are now flooding the market and saying the wrong thing about the King or new religious charges are going to get you killed. So now fear is the predominant force of daily life. Like with most tyrannical regimes, resistance is crushed without hesitation. The abbots of Glastonbury, Reading and Colchester were executed when they refused to surrender. When 3,000 to 50,000 northerners rose up and said, no, no, we're not having it. And this is known as the Pilgrimage of Grace. They demanded the monasteries to return, and Henry kind of pretended to negotiate and then executed their leaders. Once the crowds were dispersed, roughly 200 people were killed in this single event. Even Henry's old friends were not spared. Thomas Moore, who was one of the most brilliant minds of the time he even helped educate this young prince. He refused to recognize Henry as the head of the church, and he was executed in 1535. Fun fact. That's who I'm named after. My middle name is Thomas. My mom named me after Thomas Moore. Named after him. Yeah, that's my middle name.

[Christos]

It's your middle night.

[Mark Gagnon]

The mic just fell. See? Thank you, God. I'm just saying that's. This is the guy that. Look, anytime the king's like, hey, I'm actually the head of the church. It rolls in my mind where I'm like, hey, I'm going to actively fight against that. This is who. This is who I am. Anyway, Bishop John Fisher met the same end. And what made it worse was how official it all looked. Henry used the parliament like he was going through government systems and he was twisting the law so that loyalty wasn't just about behavior. It was words and doubts, even thoughts, even rumors. And under these new treason laws, a joke or, you know, like a little comment could potentially count as an attack on the king. And the message was very simple. Whatever the king wanted now was just stamped as the law. And Henry learned something very dark, is that for the short, short term, violence works. If you silence your critics, all of a sudden, the path clears up. And the young king, who once wrote a book literally defending Catholicism, had now torn England away from the Vatican and from Rome and from the Pope. Any type of outside power was gone. This charming Renaissance prince that had read all the classics, you know, he was so beloved by the Church, is now executing bishops and abbots and, you know, even close companions without any hesitation. But he's still not done. January 1536. At the absolute height of his power, one accident at the tilt yard would push Henry VIII into an even more terrifying phase, one defined by paranoia and. And a cruelty that would leave permanent scars on England. January 24, 1536. Greenwich Palace. The day was supposed to be a celebration. A tournament was being held in Queen Anne's honor. And she's pregnant again. Henry was convinced this child would finally be the son who made all of this chaos worthwhile. He's 44 now. He's a little. A little heavier than he was when he was a kid, but he's still confident. You know what I mean? There's nothing wrong with a little dad weight in your 40s. They didn't have GLP1s yet, so he was. He was doing his best. And he'd been jousting since he was a kid, so, you know, charging full speed with this armor, weighing like 50 or 60 pounds, Lance is strong enough to shatter bone. And then everything goes wrong. We don't know whether the horse tripped or the opponent's lance just, like, hit the wrong angle, but the result is catastrophic. Henry falls. And then his massive horse, also covered in armor, easily a thousand pounds, falls directly on top of him. Some say that Henry is unconscious for two hours. Even today, a few minutes of unconsciousness is like a medical emergency. Two hours suggests like, severe brain trauma. And the court stood in total silence, wondering if the king was dead, if he was going to wake up. And if he did wake up, is he still going to be the same guy? When Henry finally opens his eyes, he seemed fine, battered, you know, put him in a dark room for a little bit, give him concussion protocol, and he had a, you know, this old leg wound that was torn open again. But within days, he was back to business and seemed like he was. He was good to go. But something was different. What's interesting is that modern neurologists look at Henry's behavior after 1536, and they see classic signs of traumatic brain injury. Memory lapses, explosive anger, impulsive decisions, and insomnia and depression. None of these symptoms ever appeared before the accident. And the reopened leg wound would never heal. And it became a chronic ulcer, infected, foul smelling, like leaking wound. And it had to be dressed every single day. So this once athletic king was now increasingly immobile. I mean, at this point, his weight skyrockets. His waist goes from roughly 35 inches to 52 inches. By 1540, he had to be lifted in special chairs. His armor was refitted again and again and again, each time bigger and bigger and bigger. And, I mean, chronic pain just in general will affect your psyche. I mean, it wears you down. It just, it sharpens your frustration. It takes down your patience. And any type of, like, small irritation can turn into rage really quickly. And Henry had always been intense. That was like a part of, you know, why people liked him. But after this, this incident, that intensity is now completely unpredictable and at worst, dangerous. The court once, you know, glamorous but risky, just turned into straight up risk. And staying alive meant being aware of Henry's moods and understanding when he was feeling angry and when he was just feeling a little bit angry. I mean, Anne Boleyn felt the shift immediately when false news reached her that Henry had died. After the accident, she was broken and, you know, just completely shaken. Five days later, January 29, she has a miscarriage. And the child was a boy. Yeah, Henry didn't react with grief, but immediately is pissed off and just blames her. He had torn down a marriage, broken down Rome. He literally reshaped England for this child that Anne Boleyn was carrying. And now that son's gone. And in his mind, it's Anne's fault. If God had cursed his marriage to Catherine, Henry now believed that God was cursing his marriage to Anne Boleyn too. Four months later, Anne was dead. Yeah, she was accused of all sorts of stuff. I mean, adultery, incest, plotting to kill the king. Like, charges that were almost certainly fabricated. The testimonies were forced and confession meant death, and refusal meant torture and then death. So Anne went to the scaffold on May 19, 1536, proclaiming her innocence. Eleven days later, Henry marries Jane Seymour. Now, if you're Jane Seymour, high stakes. I mean, I couldn't imagine what she's thinking. She was probably at the execution being like, okay, what's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I gotta tell you something. The holidays wrecked me. Yeah. Travel. I mean, it was eating whatever I wanted. I wasn't working out, and I just hit January and I felt like I was a hundred years old. What I didn't realize that I now know is that your body. My body starts losing collagen way earlier than you think. Like mid-20s. And that's why recovery sucks. I mean, your joint feel stiff and your hair will get thin and your skin will look tired, all that. And that's why I started taking Bubs Natural Collagen peptides. Yes. Everyone's tossing around that P word. And I'm telling you, Bubs is the best one. I toss it in my coffee in the morning, and you don't even taste it. It dissolves instantly. It doesn't like, clump up or anything like that. And honestly, I feel better. I recover faster, my joints feel better, and I just feel less like I got hit by a car. It's like the first New Year's resolution that I actually kept up with. And what I also like is that Bubs is a legit brand. There's no sugar, there's no fillers. It's third party tested. It is Whole 30 approved. It's NSF certified for sports, all the good stuff. And on top of that, they donate 10% of the profits to charity honoring Glenn Bub Doherty, who is a Navy SEAL who was killed in Benghazi. So it's not just wellness and gonna make you feel better. It's also built on something real that'll make the world Better. They also do electrolytes, mct, oil, creamer, all the clean stuff. So great news for you is that right now you're going to get 20% off your entire order. Yes, that's what you get for being a camp listener. 20% off the entire order. When you go to Bubs Naturals, that's B U b S Naturals, N A T U r a l s.com and use the code camp at checkout. And after you buy, they're going to ask you how you heard about them. Tell them that Camp Gagnon sent you. Yeah, the diesel peptided up, bro, over at Camp Gagnon. All right, let them know. And it actually helps the show grow and it helps keep the fire burning here at the campsite. All right, now let's get back to it. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I gotta tell you a story. Imagine you're sitting in your house, it's cold outside, it's a little snowy. And you're like, man, I just want a panini. So you go and you order it, you know, from. From Doordash or something like that. And it never gets to you. You're looking at the app, you're like, dude, it's been four hours. Where's my panini? You're calling? No one answers. Well, this is a true story that happened. There was a woman, a client that was working as a doordash driver, and she slipped and fell on an icy walkway outside of a Panera Bread in Fort Wayne, Indiana. She breaks her elbow, which leads to surgery and hardware having to get inserted into her arm. She can't work. And originally, you know, she sues Panera. And Panera's like, okay, we'll give you like 125,000. But then the good people over at Morgan and Morgan fought for her and got her the million dollar verdict that she deserved. Yes. If you never heard of them, Morgan. Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. Yes. And they are that way for a reason. They've been fighting for the people for over 35 years. Now, I'll be honest. If I ordered, you know, a panini and the woman gets paid a million bucks because she slipped. I mean, it's a tragic thing to happen, of course, but I deserve a little bit of that. I. I should get a cut at least, right? As I'm the one to order the panini. If I never ordered that panini, she never would have slipped, never got a million bucks, which obviously she deserved. You know what? I mean, but maybe next time she gets a million and million point one. I can get a cool a hundred thousand out of that. Regardless. 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Let's get back to the show now. Jane succeeded where Anne couldn't. After three days and nights of excruciating labor, she finally gave Henry a son. All this chaos is finally worth it, right? We got Edward. October 12, 1537. Finally, Henry is stoked. But then Jane dies 12 days later from postnatal complications, likely an infection caused by a retained placenta. And Henry, they say, mourned her deeply. After 12 days of marriage, in memory, she became the one wife he truly loved because he knew her for 12 days. And I think probably the most likely reason why it's said that he loved her the most is because she gave him what he wanted the most and literally what he would move heaven and earth for. Literally. And died before she could ever disappoint him. But Edward's birth didn't calm Henry's mind. The pain continued. The paranoia just got deeper. And the executions continued to come. In 1540, Henry married Anne of Cleves in a diplomatic match arranged by Thomas Cromwell. Henry despised her immediately, allegedly called her a Flanders mayor. And that marriage was annulled in months. Flanders mare is a nice. That's a nice insult. We got to bring that one back. If you don't know, Flanders mayor is literally like a. Like a strong horse from Belgium, which, I mean, if a lowkey. If you describe a woman as, like a strong horse, I'm like, ooh, all right. I'm kind of that. That got me. That gets me interested. But a Flanders mayor at this time is a severe insult. So Cromwell, for setting up this marriage, is executed. Yeah, he's arrested for treason and heresy and then executed. That July, Henry had learned that even the most brilliant loyal advisor could then be destroyed in an instant. And everyone else that was around also saw, like, hey, one little mistake could all of a sudden cost you your life. I mean, that's crazy. You set up someone, two people, they get married, and he doesn't like her, and all of a sudden, you're dead. That's tough. Well, the marriages don't stop. Next comes Katherine Howard. She's about 18 years old. She's lively and charming and, some would say careless. Past relationships and ongoing ones came to light. Henry cried when he heard about it, and then he ordered another execution. She was 20 years old. His final wife, Catherine Parr, survived him by just intelligence alone. When Henry grew suspicious and soldiers arrived to arrest her, she managed to twist the situation, insisting any religious conversations she'd had were out of admiration for Henry's wisdom, not to challenge him. And Henry accepted it, or pretended to accept it. And so she was able to escape execution. The accident didn't create Henry's tyranny, right? Like, the roots were already there. The conviction in his divine right, this lifelong pattern of getting what he wanted, of being smarter and more charming than people around him. But that single jousting accident cracks something inside of him wide open. A likely brain injury. The constant chronic pain and the fear of aging and mortality just amplified every dangerous part of his personality. This charismatic prince of the early years is now gone. And in his place is a man who could turn on anyone. Friends became enemies overnight. They were executed quickly. Loyalty meant nothing. Disloyalty meant basically whatever Henry decided. And by the 1540s, the English court was just a minefield. Ministers rose and fell within months. There was constant turnover. Nobles were executed for crimes that they never committed. Henry's moods were just insane. Like charming at one moment and just everyone loved him to murderous the next. Kevin began forgetting his own commands. In 1546, he ordered Catherine Parr's arrest, then raged at the guards when they arrived, having forgotten that he even told them to arrest her. Anyway, the jousting accident, again, it doesn't turn him into this tyrant, but it pushes a flawed man with a base idea of, you know, probably narcissism to a point of no return. And as his Body deteriorated and his mind darkened. His final years became just a blur of violent mood swings and, you know, impulsive decisions and of just a frantic attempt to secure a secession that had haunted him for decades. The king who once symbolized this enlightened Renaissance thinker had now just become something else entirely. This wounded, unpredictable force that was still powerful and still feared, but dangerous to anyone that was too close to him. By 1547, Henry VIII is basically unrecognizable to the king that took the throne 38 years before. He was obese, barely able to walk, and constantly fighting infections from his leg that was just continuing to ooze. Servants had to carry him from room to room. His temper, never calm to begin with, had just become so unpredictable. His six wife, Catherine Parr, basically had to treat every conversation like she was, you know, crossing a minefield. One wrong comment about religion or power or politics or just a phrasing that he didn't like, and she could end up killed next. And after everything Henry had done to secure this Tudor dynasty, all the marriages and the break with Rome and the reorganization of government in general, the executions, the secession was still fragile. After all of this, he only had one legitimate son, Edward, who was just nine and already sick. Mary had been restored to the line, but she was a devout Catholic. Elizabeth, also restored, was only 13 and considered illegitimate by most of Catholic Europe. Henry had completely torn England apart and really just put Europe upside down for a male heir, and was now leaving behind three children who looked destined to just fight over whatever had remained. Now, on January 28, 1547, Henry VIII died at Whitehall Palace. He was 55 years old, and there's a story that he died clutching Archbishop Cranmer's hand, unable to speak but squeezing it when asked if he trusted in Christ's mercy. Maybe it happened, or maybe, like many of the stories involving Henry viii, it was crafted to give a brutal reign a softer ending. And after his death, chaos ensued. Edward VI became king, but he was just a child. So real power fell to Protestant reformers, who pushed religious change far more aggressively than Henry ever dared. Latin services were completely gone. English liturgy took over. Altars were ripped out, images were smashed. And under Edward, the Reformation Henry had started for personal reasons became a full blown ideological revolution. Edward was always frail throughout his childhood, and in 1553, he died at 15 years old again, most likely from tuberculosis. Mary then took the throne and immediately tried to reverse everything again Mary, a staunch Catholic, she restored papal authority, even persecuted Protestants, and burned nearly 300 people at the Stake. That's how she earned the nickname Bloody Mary. And the irony here is brutal, right? Henry killed those loyal to Rome, and then Mary killed those loyal to Henry's new church. Mary eventually died childless in 1558, and Elizabeth, the daughter Henry once declared as illegitimate, the child of the wife he executed, now became queen. She ruled for 45 years and outshined him in almost every way. She stabilized the religious divide that he had created, building a moderate Protestant state that most of England could live with. She defeated the Spanish Armada, turned England into a rising naval power, and really presided over a cultural boom that gave us Shakespeare and the other great English poets. Elizabeth built in England out of the rubble that her father left behind. But none of her achievements would have ever been possible without Henry's destruction. This is what's ironic. His break with Rome created the Protestant kingdom that she then shaped. The dissolution of the monasteries formed a new gentry class loyal to the crown. His claim to supreme authority, his use of Parliament to legitimize radical change. These laid the foundations for a centralized Tudor state that Elizabeth would then inherit and then strengthen. But the cost of Henry's choices was enormous. Thousands were executed either by Henry himself or in the violence that followed his reforms. Centuries of art and architecture and spiritual tradition just vanished when the monasteries were destroyed. Suspicion and fear seeped into the daily life of every person living under the king. And the religious divisions he created split Britain for centuries, fueling civil war under Charles, the first, persecution under Cromwell, and, of course, sectarian conflict that carried even into Ireland. Historians have spent 500 years asking the same question. Did Henry drive events, or did these events drive Henry? Was he a mastermind reshaping England for his dynasty? Or just an impulsive man chasing personal obsession while, you know, guys like Woolsey and Cromwell did the real work? And the truth is, unfortunately, kind of somewhere in the middle. I mean, Henry was brilliant and genuinely a smart guy. He understood theology, he read people really well. He could charm or intimidate anyone with equal ease. But brilliance is not wisdom, and power is not good judgment. Henry had the intellect to grasp these complex ideas and the charisma to win loyalty, but he lacked the self awareness to see when his obsessions were dragging him into disaster. Ultimately, he wanted glory, but instead he created chaos. He claimed divine authority, but had to rule his kingdom through fear. He wanted greatness, but ended up just securing infamy. And yet, the religious revolution he set in motion, because he wanted to remarry changed England more deeply than maybe any monarch before or after him. The Church of England still exists today because of King Henry. Parliamentary supremacy, which he used to justify his actions, eventually limited royal power in ways that he never could have actually foreseen. And the physical scars, of course, of his reign, I mean, ruined monasteries crumbling into the hillside in England still mark the country today. At the beginning of his reign, Henry VIII wanted to be remembered as a warrior king who brought England to new heights that conquered new lands. A defender of the Catholic faith and a man who wanted to change England's destiny forever. And instead, he's really remembered for his wives and his rage and his waist size and, of course, the destruction that he left behind. I mean, six marriages, two beheaded queens, trusted advisors just killed, hundreds of clergy driven out centuries old religious communities just torn apart so that the king could effectively take their wealth and power. And yet, here's one final paradox. Everything he destroyed cleared space for this new English dynasty to rise. Elizabeth's golden age was built on the ruins of her father, King Henry. His break with Rome reshaped what Western Christianity looks like. His grab for absolute power helped pave the path towards constitutional monarchy. I mean, so much of the reason why America is, you know, Protestant Christian today is because of this man. Henry VIII spent his whole life obsessed with securing the Tudor line through a male heir. Edward dies young, and the Tudor dynasty really dies with him. And the crown eventually gets passed on to the Stuarts, the descendants of Henry's sister Margaret. The very line that he tried to keep power away from. All the marriages, the executions, the upheaval, and the secession landed exactly where Henry didn't want it to go. The golden prince who took the throne in 1509, died in 1547, a broken tyrant. And England would spend the next century trying to understand what he had done and ultimately what he had become. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the abridged life of King Henry viii. Kind of a. An interesting guy to have dinner with, right? At the very least, like, imagine you got to dine with Henry viii, like, maybe after, like, the first wife, like, Catherine is gone.

[Christos]

What about after the accident?

[Mark Gagnon]

After the accident is crazy. I mean, first off, like, you are the King of England and you're still jousting like, that's insane. Like, you've seen even, like, you've been to, like, a Renaissance fair or, like, Arabian Nights.

[Christos]

Yeah, it's. It's ludicrous.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's crazy that, like, he's literally running the country and is not, like, play fighting. Like, he's. Who's the guy that hit him? Do we have we, we gotta have him dead, right? Like, can we. Could you do a fact check on that?

[Christos]

That's like what Teddy Roosevelt was like.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, I guess Roosevelt would fight with.

[Christos]

Like the American champion.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, yeah, like the, like he became.

[Christos]

Like blind in one eye.

[Mark Gagnon]

A real bull moose, you know. Yeah. That is wild. Yeah. I'd be so curious to know what happened to this guy. I mean, what was your take? What do you think? What do you think of old King Henry?

[Christos]

I mean, I guess like the biggest misconception was I thought the breakaway was more influenced by the Protestant faith.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, like most things, I think that's an element of it. Like, I don't think you can say that's not part of it because of course you have, you know, I think Protestant and like Reformation minded opportunists that see this event to be like, oh, this guy's breaking away and this is our chance to like, you know, Anglicize or like, you know, Protestant, defy the, the country. So I think it's probably both to an extent. But yeah, I think the ultimate ideological thing. This is what I was taught from my mom, who obviously, you know, ardent Catholic, was like, yeah, this was just done because he wanted to divorce. And the Catholic Church is like, yeah, there's not a thing.

[Christos]

Do you think that the marriage would have been annulled if Catherine's nephew didn't take over Rome? Yeah, because it seemed like they had grounds. I mean, just that that passage from Leviticus saying that no marriage is legitimate if it's like your brother's widow. Which is oddly specific for.

[Mark Gagnon]

How often was this happening?

[Christos]

I mean, I'm also assuming that the passage in Scripture was used like brother, like generally. Yeah, just like a confidant, a person of the community.

[Mark Gagnon]

The homie.

[Christos]

The homie.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, it might literally mean brother. I don't speak ancient Hebrew, but I could see it going that way. I could see the Pope being like, look, this guy's our boy, he's riding for us and he's got our back and he needs this one little thing figured out. And there's a little bit of scriptural evidence. I could see it going that way. But again, it's interesting because the church, it's possible that they might have bent their rules a little bit to appease the monarchy, but they couldn't for political reasons. So it's ultimately all politics. Oh, dude, I just saw a graphic that at in Vienna in 1913. I'll send this to you after so you can throw it on the screen. Vienna, 1913. Okay. In Vienna.

[Christos]

I see where this is going.

[Mark Gagnon]

You had it living within, like, two miles of each other, I guess. Go ahead. So it's Hitler. Yep.

[Christos]

Was it Archduke Franz Ferdinand?

[Mark Gagnon]

Franz Joseph. That. I think. I think that's the Archduke, yes.

[Christos]

There's one more.

[Mark Gagnon]

There's three more.

[Christos]

There's three more.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sigmund Freud.

[Christos]

Freud, yeah. Trotsky the scientists.

[Mark Gagnon]

Nope. Trotsky the revolutionary. The Russian revolutionary.

[Christos]

Was he Communism?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Christos]

I thought that was Lenin.

[Mark Gagnon]

Lenin and Trotsky were kind of like boys that were running Trotsky and then Stalin. Wow. All living within a. They could have gone. Yeah, they could have gone to the same coffee shop out.

[Christos]

I'm sure they did.

[Mark Gagnon]

Look at this. How literally. Freud's coffee house is right there. Trotsky's Coffee House. I love. They all have different coffee houses. That's so sweet.

[Christos]

And, like.

[Mark Gagnon]

And Archduke Franz Ferdinand right there. They're all living in Vienna in the same year.

[Christos]

That's so crazy. I was reading that book on Bolivar, the liberator of South America, and he was, like, doing European travels and saw the coronation of. Of Napoleon and was so inspired by.

[Mark Gagnon]

Him that he coordinated himself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christos]

So, like, he sees this and is inspired of, like, the liberation of the French people, of, like, whatever was going on before then and wanted that for South America. And without that.

[Mark Gagnon]

How crazy that literally, King Henry separates this whole church because the Pope is held hostage by your wife's nephew. By. Yeah, by your wife's nephew.

[Christos]

And only this is possible because Ferdinand and Isabella doubt the Moors.

[Mark Gagnon]

And your wife's parents also funded Columbus to go discover America. But what a crazy life.

[Christos]

This is so nuts. And the natives are like, guys, can.

[Mark Gagnon]

We catch a break? Just figure out your own thing. Right? Like, literally, like, they're fighting over, like, religion, and then they come to America and they're like, well, you guys have to be our religion. Yeah, you guys don't even know what your religion is. I can see the natives being like, so what is the Trinity? And then all them being like, all right, well, hold on. We gotta. So if.

[Christos]

If Ferdinand and Isabella are unsuccessful in their conquest to take back the Iberian Peninsula, me and you would be Native Americans right now.

[Mark Gagnon]

Fire, bro. That would be us. Wow. On horseback, running around. Where's Miles? Miles would be in there somewhere. Miles is behind the picture cuts off. Christos, Question for you. What happened to the guy that lanced old Henry viii? That would be Charles Brandon, the Duke of Suffolk. Nice. Henry VIII in a jousting accident, after which he was mortified. And vowed never to joust again with the king.

[Christos]

He wasn't killed.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wait, hold on a second. You added some words at the end that really changed that whole flavor. Why? He goes. He vowed never to joust again with the king. It's like, all right. Because I bet you he said. He's like, I'm never jousting again. They're like, really? He's like, all right, well, with. Yeah, with the king, I'm still gonna jazz.

[Christos]

As you can see, I'm that boy.

[Mark Gagnon]

I have infinite ball knowledge. Like, I'm obsessed with the grind.

[Christos]

Wait, so he wasn't killed?

[Mark Gagnon]

I feel like he was honored by a lavish funeral for. By Henry.

[Christos]

Oh, that's savage.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, by Henry.

[Christos]

Oh, so he respected the people that could.

[Mark Gagnon]

That could. That had it like that. Henry blamed himself for forgetting to lower his visor. He forgave him for forgetting to lower his.

[Christos]

That's the brain damage talking.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, that's.

[Christos]

I mean, a true gentleman.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, right? I mean, there is something honorable about that, you know? I mean, be like, nah, it's not you, bro. Game recognized. Game.

[Christos]

I didn't prepare.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, that's on me. That's. I gotta. I gotta eat that.

[Christos]

I would have beheaded that mother.

[Mark Gagnon]

GG. Yeah, right? You hit him with the GGs. That's hilarious. But also being like, nah, bro, it wasn't even you, bro. It's my visor. Like, I literally didn't pull my visor down, which is hilarious. That. That's the reason he thinks that he almost got smushed.

[Christos]

Jesus Christ.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, the one wife that escaped par. What happened to her? Like, she just, like, rode out the rest of her days.

[Christos]

Oh, we haven't even dissected the wench from France. That. That was just, like, truly playing hard to get and change this and killed natives.

[Mark Gagnon]

Anne Boleyn.

[Christos]

Yeah, dude.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, dude. It's like, she was like, nah. And then the other wives, like, the one wife that just came in with baggage, and he was just like, oh.

[Christos]

So he married her in secret before the annulment. So she gave in eventually.

[Mark Gagnon]

Also, he had another kid that, like, we talked about briefly that, like, we didn't really bring up. So he has Mary the first. Okay. AKA Bloody Mary, which I always thought like, Bloody Mary. I thought it was, like, the Virgin Mary that, like, I never connected her with England. I don't know.

[Christos]

I thought it was, like, some exorcist thing.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's what I thought. I thought it was like, oh, the Virgin Mary was like an evil, like, Antichrist. I Don't know. I never asked. Oh, God. So that's Bloody Mary who will appear to you in the mirror if you say it three times and you want to get some information. Information.

[Christos]

It's so funny that Bloody Mary just has an English accent.

[Mark Gagnon]

Can we pull up all of Henry's wives and see who the hottest is?

[Christos]

Oh, I have such a funny photo. Christos, I want you to put up. I looked up.

[Mark Gagnon]

What was it? The. The. Oh, the Flanders mayor. Yeah, Flanders mayor. I mean, that's a tough. That's a tough, tough nickname. Dude, this is.

[Christos]

This is what she was depicted as. I can imagine.

[Mark Gagnon]

Really? The question is, is it worth killing your boy over? Setting. Setting you up with this girl?

[Christos]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, let's see. Let's just see.

[Christos]

O. Okay, that's her.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's the. That's the plan.

[Christos]

So your boy sets you up. Of course you're going to kill him.

[Mark Gagnon]

Also, she's kind of a piece.

[Christos]

We've done this before so many times. Of like, looking up ancient paintings of. Of these.

[Mark Gagnon]

All right, that one.

[Christos]

There she is.

[Mark Gagnon]

O. That's old hen. That's old eight ball. Dude, hold on. Can we get all of his wives up?

[Christos]

That's so good. Wait, go down to that meme.

[Mark Gagnon]

What is it?

[Christos]

Scroll down. Decrease.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right there.

[Christos]

Him pointing a picture, being like Lander's nerd.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, let's get all of his wives. Let's just. Yeah, hit that one. And we gotta just say wood. Yeah.

[Christos]

All right, so Catherine, the OG A bit pale.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, no, that's not the OG that's the last one.

[Christos]

Oh, apologies.

[Mark Gagnon]

A lot of Catherine's, which is kind of funny. Catherine of Aragon.

[Christos]

Aragon not depicted.

[Mark Gagnon]

But she. I mean, she's a Spanish princess. I mean, she's probably a piece.

[Christos]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay.

[Christos]

Anne Boleyn.

[Mark Gagnon]

And Boleyn, where's Seymour?

[Christos]

No, scroll to the right because it's. It's in reverse order. So. And Bolin. Yes, I can see how he.

[Mark Gagnon]

Bullen. But yes, I agree. I. I mean, probably that's a Christos 10.

[Christos]

Absolutely worth getting an annulment for Jane Seymour. No, dude, hot take.

[Mark Gagnon]

Anne of Cleaves. Might be the most attractive one.

[Christos]

Keep scrolling to the left. Who's that young, feisty one?

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, yeah.

[Christos]

Was that Catherine?

[Mark Gagnon]

I think it was Catherine Howard. Yeah.

[Christos]

Yeah, she's.

[Mark Gagnon]

She's got a little firecracker. Sounds pretty.

[Christos]

Yeah, she looks like the baddest.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, right. I don't know. I mean, maybe she got a. A nice retelling.

[Christos]

Maybe she has a stench.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hold On. Can you go to images real quick? Because someone must have done. Yeah, here we go. Click on one. Click on one of them. I mean, bottom, middle and bottom left.

[Christos]

Oh, is this AI'd?

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, a modern depiction of what they. Top right.

[Christos]

Looks like Ariana Grande in her choker phase.

[Mark Gagnon]

Bottom left.

[Christos]

All right, I guess you can say Henry had good taste.

[Mark Gagnon]

Dude, Anne of Cleaves. I think it was the best looking one. Yeah, and he called her the Flanders mayor. Come on, bro.

[Christos]

Yeah, you don't know. You don't know, Ball.

[Mark Gagnon]

He might be gay.

[Christos]

Also, you know, I was thinking the whole time, like, there's a study that came out recently that's like, men that have. Girls have higher testosterone.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay, see, this is my bit.

[Christos]

Oh, is it really? Oh, my God, am I biting?

[Mark Gagnon]

You're biting.

[Christos]

Because Derek Poston, that was what he was bragging about when he found out he had a girl. Yeah, I just got it. Really? Yeah, bro.

[Mark Gagnon]

I found that out and I was like, damn, Mother Nature saw me. They're like, yeah, he needs a man around now. So let's get. Let's get some testosterone in the building.

[Christos]

All right, so, yeah, but like, it makes sense if he was like this total athlete scholar.

[Mark Gagnon]

You know, he's a high tea.

[Christos]

He's a high tea individual.

[Mark Gagnon]

But that is the interesting thing is that the gender of the child is technically coded on the DNA of the sperm. Sperm. That's something that we didn't bring up that he was. He thought like, oh, if it's a woman, if the kid's a girl, it's the woman's fault because he had a boy, Fitzroy, with this mistress that was illegitimate. So he's like, I can have boys. This girl can't have boys. So it's obviously her fault. Yeah, but what we know now is that the sperm is the one that actually decides if it's a male or female. Yeah, I think that's true.

[Christos]

That is true.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay. And so now it's like, oh, it was actually his fault the whole time. The common denominator, all these women are getting. Getting killed because he was too high T based gang.

[Christos]

He was Lux Maxson. Right?

[Mark Gagnon]

Anyway, what do you guys think? If you're a historian on King Henry or, you know, Medieval England, let me know if there's anything I missed. Please drop a comment. I am. I'm not immune to correction. I love the truth above all. So please drop a comment. I read all of them. YouTube, Spotify. So be nice about it, okay? And I have great news for you. If you like this episode, you can check out Camp Gagnon. The main channel is where I do interviews with actual scholars, not David and Christos. Actual intelligent people that know what they're talking about that can inform me on all the mysteries of the world. And we also have Religion Camp. So if you like the little tinge of this that was religion based. Well, great news, Religion Camp. We explore all of the matters of the divine. Everything from Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, everything in between. We just want to figure out what everyone on this big planet believes. And if you just rock with history. Great news. We drop these episodes every single week, so make sure you subscribe. Comment like it. It all helps keep the fire burning. Thank you guys so much. This has been another episode of History Camp and I will see you in the future to talk about the past. Peace.