The Vatican's Most EVIL Popes In History

Summary

Detailed Summary of "Camp Gagnon" Episode: "The Vatican's Most EVIL Popes In History"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Camp Gagnon
• Host: Mark Gagnon
• Episode: The Vatican's Most EVIL Popes In History
• Release Date: April 8, 2025
• Description: Home to the most interesting conversations on the internet. I'm Mark Gagnon and welcome to Camp!

In this provocative episode of "Camp Gagnon," host Mark Gagnon, alongside his co-host David, embarks on a deep dive into the dark and controversial histories of some of the most malevolent popes in the Catholic Church. Through a blend of historical analysis and irreverent humor, the duo ranks and scrutinizes the worst figures who have held the papal office.

---

Introduction to the Dark Side of the Papacy

Mark sets the stage by acknowledging the Catholic Church's esteemed position but quickly pivots to uncover the hidden scandals and immoral actions of certain popes. He emphasizes the intent to rank and discuss these "evil" popes, promising an engaging exploration for listeners interested in religious history's more sordid aspects.

• Notable Quote:
  • Mark: “We got all the worst popes lined up... Some of them were accused of bestiality, others murdered popes just to become pope themselves.”
  • [00:58]

Pope John XII (930-964 AD): The Youngest and Most Corrupt

Mark opens with Pope John XII, highlighting his youth and shocking misconduct. Elected at around 18 years old, John XII's reign is marred by allegations of simony, sexual immorality, and even satanic practices.

• Key Points:

  • Turned the Lateran Palace into a brothel.
  • Allegedly toasted to Satan during gambling.
  • Accused of incestuous affairs, including with his niece.
  • Responsible for the murder and mutilation of rivals to consolidate power.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He was the youngest and worst pope in history.”
    • [05:07]
  • David: “What era is it good okay for the Pope to hail Satan and shoot dice again?”
    • [16:29]

Pope Paul IV (1555-1559): Architect of Anti-Semitic Policies

Next, Mark discusses Pope Paul IV, known for his oppressive measures against Jewish communities. His papal bull Cum Numis Absurdum enforced the segregation and disenfranchisement of Jews in Rome.

• Key Points:

  • Forced Jews into walled ghettos.
  • Mandatory distinctive yellow hats for Jews.
  • Destruction of synagogues and restrictions on trade for Jews.
  • Illicit measures aimed at persecuting and marginalizing Jewish populations.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He forced Jews to live in a walled off area, restricted their rights and subjected them to discriminatory measures.”
    • [20:31]
  • Mark: “Buffy, what are you about to...” [21:16] (Interruption focusing on anti-Semitic actions)

Pope Sixtus IV (1471-1484): Nepotism and the Spanish Inquisition

Pope Sixtus IV is scrutinized for his rampant nepotism and establishment of the Spanish Inquisition, which wielded immense power to persecute non-Christians and political opponents.

• Key Points:

  • Appointed six nephews as cardinals.
  • Sold church offices and indulgences for personal gain.
  • Established the Spanish Inquisition in 1478, targeting Jews and non-Christians.
  • Supported conspiracies against rival families to maintain power.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He abused his position to shower his family with gifts and power... Established the Spanish Inquisition.”
    • [33:47]
  • Mark: “This institution was targeted mostly towards Jews and any non Christians.”
    • [33:56]

Pope Sergius III: Political Maneuvering and Murder

Mark delves into the tumultuous papacy of Sergius III, who is accused of political manipulation and murder to secure his position. His illicit relationship with Marozia resulted in an illegitimate heir who continued the cycle of corruption.

• Key Points:

  • Ordered the murders of Popes Leo V and Antipope Christopher.
  • Engaged in an incestuous relationship with Marozia.
  • His actions led to the creation of Pope John VI, perpetuating corruption.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He murdered two of his immediate predecessors, Pope Leo V and antipope Christopher.”
    • [42:48]
  • Mark: “This guy’s pretty bad. He actually was involved in murdering people.”
    • [44:39]

Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303): Violent Betrayal and Simony

Boniface VIII is highlighted for his aggression in consolidating power, including land confiscation, betrayal, and the notorious practice of simony.

• Key Points:

  • Confiscated lands from the Colonna family to benefit his relatives.
  • Ordered the destruction and salting of Palestrina.
  • Imprisoned Pope Celestine V, leading to accusations of foul play.
  • Accused of simony: selling church offices for personal enrichment.
  • Exiled Dante Alighieri, who immortalized him in Divine Comedy.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He stole land from people and then redistributed it to his family.”
    • [50:54]
  • David: “Dante put him in hell in the Divine Comedy for corruption and simony.”
    • [51:52]

Pope Benedict IX (1032-1048): Simony and Debauchery

One of the most notorious popes, Benedict IX, ascended to the papacy multiple times, engaging in extreme debauchery, simony, and even reportedly selling his papal position.

• Key Points:

  • Became pope at around 20 years old, though some allege he was as young as 11.
  • Hosted orgies involving both men and animals.
  • Sold the papacy to John Gratian to finance his personal life.
  • Excommunicated and expelled from Rome multiple times due to his immoral behavior.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He hosted orgies at the Lateran palace involving both men and animals.”
    • [53:42]
  • Mark: “He sold his position to John Gratian to finance his wedding or establish a pension.”
    • [54:28]

Pope Innocent VIII (1484-1492): Persecution and Simony

Innocent VIII is critiqued for authorizing the persecution of witches, indulging in simony, and engaging in the trade of Moorish slaves.

• Key Points:

  • Issued the papal bull Summis Desiderantes Affectibus in 1484, authorizing witch hunts.
  • Practiced rampant nepotism, advancing his illegitimate children within the church.
  • Sold church offices to the highest bidders to address financial issues.
  • Permitted the trade of Moorish slaves, distributing them among favored cardinals.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He authorized the persecution of people accused of witchcraft, leading to widespread trials and executions.”
    • [76:37]
  • Mark: “Innocent VIII practiced rampant nepotism, advancing his illegitimate children within the church and Italian society.”
    • [77:13]

Pope Julius II (1503-1513): The "Warrior Pope" and Indulgences

Pope Julius II, known as the "Warrior Pope," is examined for his military campaigns, expansionist policies, and contribution to the Protestant Reformation through indulgences.

• Key Points:

  • Led military campaigns against Venice and France to expand the Papal States.
  • Prioritized secular power over spiritual duties, causing discontent.
  • Sold indulgences to fund the rebuilding of St. Peter's Basilica, sparking Martin Luther's protests.
  • His reign contributed significantly to the rise of the Protestant Reformation.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He personally led military campaigns, expanding the Papal States through force.”
    • [59:08]
  • Mark: “He sold indulgences and convinced basically all of Europe that the only way to get to heaven is to give up their money.”
    • [67:00]

Pope Leo X (1513-1521): Lavish Lifestyle and the Spark of Reformation

Leo X is often held accountable for igniting the Protestant Reformation through his extravagant spending, patronage of the arts, and the sale of indulgences.

• Key Points:

  • Drained the papal treasury with lavish lifestyles and extravagant parties.
  • Funded Renaissance artists like Raphael and Michelangelo.
  • Expanded the sale of indulgences, essentially allowing sinners to buy their way out of damnation.
  • Allegedly fabricated plots against cardinals to extort money.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He sold indulgences, convincing Europeans that the only way to get to heaven is to give up their money.”
    • [67:00]
  • Mark: “This is literally the guy that I think caused the Reformation.”
    • [67:00]

Pope Stephen VI (896-897): The Cadaver Synod

Stephen VI's papacy is infamous for the Cadaver Synod, where he exhumed and desecrated the corpse of Pope Formosus, putting the deceased pope on trial.

• Key Points:
  • Exhumed

the corpse of Pope Formosus.

• Conducted a posthumous trial, nullifying Formosus's acts and ordinations.

• Stripped Formosus of vestments and condemned him publicly.

• This macabre act led to widespread unrest and exemplifies the extreme corruption and power struggles within the church.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He ordered that three fingers from Formosus's right hand be removed and desecrated, dragging the corpse through Rome and throwing it into the Tiber River.”
    • [71:30]
  • Mark: “This is the biggest hater in the world, and I love it.”
    • [71:32]

Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503): Nepotism and Incestuous Allegations

Alexander VI, born Rodrigo Borgia, is criticized for his blatant nepotism, corruption, and alleged incestuous relationships, which significantly tarnished the church's reputation.

• Key Points:

  • Used his position to enrich his family and secure power for his children.
  • Engaged in extramarital affairs, fathering several illegitimate children.
  • Distributed church lands to his offspring, creating wealth and influence.
  • Allegations of incestuous relationships, particularly with his daughter Lucrezia.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “He used his position to enrich his family, particularly his children, carving out fiefdoms from papal lands for them.”
    • [59:17]
  • Mark: “He allegedly shared a mistress with his rival, who later became Pope Julius II.”
    • [59:20]

Pope Francis (Current Pope): Modern Controversies

Concluding the episode, Mark and David touch upon contemporary criticisms of Pope Francis, particularly his 2023 ruling allowing blessings for same-sex couples. This decision has faced backlash from African bishops and conservative factions within the church.

• Key Points:

  • Mark criticizes Pope Francis for promoting what he perceives as moral corruption.
  • Highlights the tensions between progressive reforms and traditionalist backlash within the church.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Mark: “Pope Francis is being criticized for his December 2023 ruling that allowed blessings of individuals in same-sex couples.”
    • [74:25]
  • Mark: “His corruption is in promoting people who are corrupt in all these ways and then personally corrupting the faith.”
    • [74:57]

Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Mark and David argue that the recurring themes of corruption, nepotism, simony, and immoral behavior among these popes have significantly undermined the Catholic Church's spiritual authority and moral standing. These actions not only caused internal strife and loss of faith among congregants but also set the stage for major religious upheavals like the Protestant Reformation.

• Overall Reflections:

  • The duo emphasizes the importance of understanding these dark chapters to grasp the complex history of the Catholic Church.
  • They highlight how these historical misdeeds have long-lasting impacts on religion and society.

• Final Notable Quote:

  • Mark: “History is not just dates and names. It is a tapestry of human triumph and tragedy.”
    • [85:09]

---

Conclusion:

In this episode of "Camp Gagnon," Mark Gagnon and David provide a comprehensive and critical examination of the most corrupt and immoral popes in the history of the Catholic Church. By intertwining historical facts with humorous commentary, they offer listeners a captivating narrative that sheds light on the severe abuses of power that have shaped, and, in many ways, tainted the legacy of the papacy.

Transcript

[Mark Agnor]

The Catholic Church, the most holy and moral institution to ever exist in the world, minus all the controversies. But don't look into that. And at the head of the church is the Pope, the holiest man in all the land. But in the church is 2000. McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice of a Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets with spicy nether flame sauce. Now available with a Minecraft movie meal at participating McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only in theaters. The Ego power savings event is on at lows right now. Get a free select EGO 56 volt battery with purchase of a select trimmer.

[David]

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[Mark Agnor]

While supplies last. In your history, there've been a couple bad ones. Good news for you today we're ranking the worst. That's right. We got all the worst popes lined up. We'll be going through all of them. I mean, we got some of these popes that turned, you know, the Vatican into a brothel, potentially worshiped Satan. Some of them were accused of bestiality, others murdered popes just to become pope themselves. There's a long laundry list of evil popes from back in the day and today we're going to be breaking them all down. All that and more will be explained in the next hour and a half. So if you're interested in dirty religion religious history, this is the episode for you. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up people? And welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Agnor. Welcome to my beautiful tent right here where we explore the most interesting, fascinating and controversial stories in the entire world. I break down all the details and I explained that to my dumbest friends. And today I have a pretty dumb guy in the tent with me. My friend David is here. Also behind the tent we have Gabe. What's up, Gabe? David, how are you? I'm good enough talking. What's up guys? So if you are interested, by the way, we have merch that is available right now. It's at campgoods Co. It's a beautiful barrel. You can see behind me. I also have a mug. David, what do you think of these?

[David]

Honest, I don't know what idiots would buy those.

[Mark Agnor]

We also have shirts and hats, so if you're interested in any of those products, you can go get [e-mail] also on the road, you can see me coming to your city to do one hour of what people have claimed is the greatest singular hour of stand up comedy. I do 60 Minutes on the dot, not a second over or under. Let's go to some of the comments from some of the previous episodes. You guys have been absolutely on your P's and Q's from the Scott Payne episode where we talk about Scott being an FBI undercover and going into neo Nazi groups. Nick said, if Triple H and Corey from Pawn Stars had a child, that's pretty good. That seems rude, though, to Scott Pan. I don't believe in that. Kevin Fernandez said, amazing. Best video I've ever seen. Appreciate that. He's lying. Yeah, I don't think he's lying. And then Jerome McClansy said, quote, a sea of black leather and testosterone. That sounds way gayer than he meant it to be. I mean, yeah. And then CIA asset turned killer. The Charles Manson episode. I really like that one. Charles Manson was a wild boy. Dumb friend reporting for duty. Thank you, Adam NL86. I appreciate that. Oh, a question or a comment from Bobber kins? Fuck Miles. I was looking for one of those let's get a fuck Miles in the comments here. But we're not talking about Miles or merch or magic spoon today. We're talking about the most evil popes in history. As you know, Pope Francis is on his last legs. Shout out to him. Even though my family is not a fan, I'll just get ahead of this. Oof. He's looking a little bloated. Look, I am a devout Catholic, okay? I've gone to church almost every Sunday my entire life. I mean, minus the last seven years. But I go more frequently than you would think. Like, of my friends. I'm probably the most religious of my friends, of my family, of actual good Catholics. I am a proper apostate, but I try my best, okay? And I pray overnight. And I love the Lord and I think that there's beauty in the rosary and shout out to the sacred Mother Mary. But as you can imagine, there have been some evil popes in history. We got 10 of them. We have. In the. In the history of the Catholic Church. How many popes do you think there have been? Going back to Peter? Random guess.

[David]

Oh, wow, 12.

[Mark Agnor]

I told you it was dumb, guys. I told you it was dumb. He's not even on camera. He's getting stage fright. This is next level stupidity.

[David]

35.

[Mark Agnor]

266.

[David]

Close enough.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, how would you even get 35? If the church has been around since Peter, you got to estimate about like 2000ish years.

[David]

I thought they lived forever.

[Mark Agnor]

They lived forever in the hearts of those 262. 266.

[David]

There's only 10 evil ones.

[Mark Agnor]

That's all I could find. 256 of them have been fucking model citizens. But 10 of them have been a little iffy. Okay.

[David]

Have you been to the Vatican?

[Mark Agnor]

I have been to the Vatican. I went into the secret chambers, into the crypt, and I started looking for artifacts. Apparently, there's all sorts of wild stuff in the basement of the Vatican. Yeah, I've never gone down there. I've never looked. But I have heard some wild stories. Maybe we do an episode on that that could be kind of fun. But, yeah, as you can imagine, there have been some popes that have had, you know, less than stellar reputations. So let's just go through them, shall we? I'm pretty sure there was a Pope that was actually a woman. We might get to that later. For the record, I didn't do all the research for this episode. This was done by my friend Jesus, which is. Why is that funny? That's his actual name. He just happens to be Mexican. It's not his fault. And his name's Jesus, and he's a good guy. He's a good fucker from Texas, you know, bro. And I was like, yo, write about these popes. He was like, okay, bro, I got you. So he started writing about the popes. And I'm reading this for the first time with y'all. So now who's the dumb friend, huh? No, there's no historical evidence to support the existence of a female pope. However, the legend of Pope Joan. I almost said Joanne.

[David]

Is that not Joanne?

[Mark Agnor]

No, Joanne has an Ann. There's an A. N E. You never been to fabrics? You've never gotten fabrics from Joanne's? No.

[David]

Never?

[Mark Agnor]

No. Yeah, that's Pope Joan persisted for centuries that there was a female pope. Maybe you're just queerbaiting. Maybe we just had a pope that was queerbaiting. It's tough to know. All right, let's jump in. Pope John XII. He reigned from 930 to 964 AD. John XII was known for his depravity and worldliness. The younger Alberic, after the downfall of his mother, Marozia, became the absolute Ruler of Rome. I mean, that's pretty wild. Before his death, he administered an oath in 954 to the Roman nobles at St Peter's that on the next vacancy of the papal chair, his only son, Octavius should be elected Pope. If you name your kid Octavius, he should have no power ever. That is an insane name to name your child. That's. That's the 12th, the youngest and worst pope in history. Wow. How old is he when he became Pope? That's a good question. In his late teenage years or early 20s, he was 18 years old, likely. 18 years old. Wow. So if he diddled, it wouldn't even. All right, we're not going to go there.

[David]

It's marginal.

[Mark Agnor]

We're not. We're not. We're not going to go there. You know what I mean? Because as a Catholic, I'm not going to. I'm not going to commit heresy against the. The papal chair. Octavius was his son. That is, again, if you're naming your kid Octavius, you're a psycho. If you're white, if you're black, then it might. You might just have a Ronnie bag on your hands. But if you're a white guy named your son Octavius, you're a psycho. That's an insane name. You cannot name your kid like a Roman Emperor name because that just means that you are living vicariously through your kid. You're like, I'm going to name him something powerful, which is quite gay if you have a son and you name him like a powerful name. Who. What are you doing? Name your kid Octavius. After the death of the reigning pontiff, Agapetus II, Octavius, then around 18 years of age or in his early 20s, was actually chosen as. As his successor. So he got his wish. In 955, his son became the successor, took the name of John, John xii, turned the Lateran palace, the papal residence, into what he was, what was described as a brothel by his contemporaries. He was accused of adultery, incest, including an affair with his own niece and having numerous mistresses. That's not great for the Pope. I don't know if any of y'all are not Catholics that are watching this. The priests and every Pope was prior to, you know, a cardinal and then a bishop and a priest. And priests take a vow of celibacy. I've actually heard described you actually, you take a vow of poverty, of celibacy. And I forget what the third one is. It's like an older one. Like, I Don't even know if they still really include this. But it's like solemnity. It's like you take, like, a vow of, like, sort of seriousness and, you know, not just being, like a real goofball. So if you want to remember it, no money, no honey, nothing funny. That's what it means to be a priest. All right? So having a brothel on the side or doing incest with your niece, I mean, that's just illegal in general, I think. But doing any of these things, as you can imagine, for a pope, would not be ideal. Contemporary accusations claim he reportedly toasted to Satan during gambling sessions and invoked pagan deities before rolling dice. I mean, did he win? I feel like that's an important piece of information that was left out. Jesus. Because if he was winning, then it's like, yeah, we have. I mean, he might have a point. Toasting Satan, I mean, that's just a hilarious move. If you're at a crab stable, guy's like, dude, hail Satan. And then throws the dice. What is going on?

[David]

He sounds like the sickest pope ever right now.

[Mark Agnor]

He's low key. I mean, minus the incest, but even after the episode of White Lotus, I don't even know what's legal, but he's just jerking off Satan with his fucking dice hand just on Molly. Dude, you're at a craps table. The guy's like, hey, can you throw baller? Lonzo ball for Buzzballs. Ready to go. Cocktails take 12. Buzz balls just dropped their biggest blue balls. Script says Biggie's blue balls. Lonzo take 13. Blue balls just dropped their biggest buzz balls. Let's try a vocal exercise. Buzz balls. Biggie' Buzzballs.

[David]

Biggies.

[Mark Agnor]

Blue balls. Big balls just dropped. Get blue balls this season with Buzzballs. Please shoot responsibly. Buzz balls. Available in spirit wine and malt, 15% alcohol by volume. Buzzballs, LLC, Carrollton, Texas.

[David]

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[Mark Agnor]

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[David]

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[Mark Agnor]

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[David]

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[Mark Agnor]

Go to your happy price. Priceline. Blow on it. Hail Satan. It's like, dude, what did you. Did you Just bring me into your ritual. What the hell? I mean, that's crazy. So his son, John the 12th is. He's the youngest and worst Pope. That's insane. He was accused of celebrating mass without taking communion and failing to make the sign of the cross. So again, for any non Catholics, communion in the Catholic faith is known as the, the true incarnation of the flesh of Jesus Christ. This is done by an act known as transubstantiation. Only priests can make this happen where basically the spirit of, you know, the bread becomes imbued with the spirit of Christ and we, we, you know, eat this body as a symbol of his sacrifice. But it's more than a symbol. It is the actual body and the spirit of Christ that exists within the, the piece of communion bread. So to take it, you have to be in a state of grace. You can't be having committed a mortal sin. And so if you're not taking communion, that probably means as a pope, you're in a state of mortal sin, which is not good. But maybe that's actually respectful and reverent that he's like, hey, I have a brothel with my niece, I'm hailing Satan while I'm playing dice on the corner with my boys and so I'm not going to take communion. Sounds like he's actually a good Catholic. He ordained clergy in inappropriate settings, such as a horse stable. All right, of the things we've gone through, that doesn't seem that bad, right? Like where was Jesus born?

[David]

Stable.

[Mark Agnor]

Exactly. Chattel. I think the audience will like that if we do inside jokes. They don't know. You guys should have been there that triple. Two weeks. Yeah.

[David]

Don't dox our hangout spots, please.

[Mark Agnor]

They don't know where.

[David]

They know where we are.

[Mark Agnor]

They don't. I'm in the Adirondacks. That's what I say every episode. I'm deep in the woods. They have no idea where we are. But we took a three hour boat into the city.

[David]

We took the ferry.

[Mark Agnor]

We took the ferry and yeah, we just grabbed a bite. Anyway, he appointed unqualified individuals to positions. All right, that's not good. Allegedly. Including a 10 year old bishop. Check the hard drive. What the hell is wrong with this dude? Bro, it goes all the way back to the beginning. You thought the hail safe was bad until he started being like, hey, kid, you got what it takes to be a star. You got the thighs of a bishop, we're going to make you famous. I mean, what a creep, dude. John the 12th there was alleged in the 963 synod, where the. There's a council of church leaders that was convened in Rome to address these and other accusations against John the 12th. He accepted bribes in exchange for bishopric and other ecclesiastical offices, undermining the integrity of the church. So you shouldn't take bribes. That's not good. John XII was accused of grievous bodily harm and murder. He alleged ordered his godfather to be blinded and had a cardinal castrated before killing him. I mean, this guy's just King Joffrey. That's the vibe I get. Like, he is Pope Joffrey, and, yeah, he's just a psycho. I mean, this is crazy. He. He regained power in Rome in 964. He mutilated his enemies, including cutting off the hand of Cardinal Deacon John and torturing others. After forming an alliance with King Otto the First by crowning him Holy Roman Emperor in 962, John XII betrayed him by secretly negotiating with Otto's enemies, including the Byzantines. I mean, this guy. Why is there no movie about him? Can we look if there's a movie about John xii? I mean, this guy is sick as hell, right? I mean, minus.

[David]

Minus nothing.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, he's got my rule, bro. I mean, for a show. Oh, no. Pope John Paul II.

[David]

Now he's the goat.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, JP2 is kind of a chiller, but, no, we need John the 12th.

[David]

I doubt there's a movie about him.

[Mark Agnor]

Well, we're gonna make it. If you guys want to support the creation of this film, we're gonna be on a shoestring budget. But go ahead and throw some dollar rooneys, throw some shekels into the chat, and might I just have to make this played by me? No intimacy coordinator. Just me and just a bishop that will do anything for the limelight. All right. Church has fallen to disrepair after his administration due to neglect. He focused on hunting, gambling, and military campaigns, and that overshadowed his spiritual responsibility. Look, it just seems like wrong place, wrong time. Because if you told me that, like, oh, the king of the Holy Roman Military, the general, and all he loved to do is hunt, gamble, and military campaigns, you'd be like, that sounds perfect, right? Like, this just sounds like. This just sounds like any guest on, like, Sean Ryan's podcast.

[David]

What era is it good okay for the Pope to hail Satan and shoot dice again?

[Mark Agnor]

Is it a bit. If he's doing it ironically, to be, like, how I'm in the Pope, you know, he's, like, goofing off. Like, then it's like, all right. Oh, like, if he's Just being a silly goose, then it's fine. But, yeah, if he's genuinely hailing Satan, probably not a good look, but the fact that he's doing it so publicly makes me think maybe he's just kind of being a goofball. He's 25.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnor]

He's a kid. He's just.

[David]

Are you gonna talk about his death?

[Mark Agnor]

He died on May 14, 964. Pour one out for the homie. Reportedly, he may have died of apoplexy or at the hands of an outraged husband. Well, we're gonna need a little bit more information on that because that sounds crazy. What is that? What is apoplexy?

[David]

I just try looking it up. It's some, like, internal bleeding, I think.

[Mark Agnor]

Okay, what does internal bleeding even really mean? Because isn't that where blood's supposed to be? Like, what the. Like it can't go. It's like, oh, it's going in the wrong place, I guess. Like you got like a puncture wound in your lung and, like, blood's going in there.

[David]

Apoplexy refers to the rupture of an internal organ and the associated symptoms. Informally or metaphorically, the term apoplexy is associated with being fury. Oh, that's just the breakdown of the word.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, of all the people to fact check, you know, the least word.

[David]

It'S a hemorrhagic stroke, typically involving a ruptured blood.

[Mark Agnor]

What was the word that you didn't know? Most recently, there was one that you said that you were like, man boy. I mean, that was an all time one. We're all have. We're all at a diner, and I was talking about a recent guest, Bob Hamer. Shout out to him. And I was like, yeah, he broke down the nambla, you know, the national association of Man Boy Lovers. And David looks at me, goes, what's a man boy?

[David]

It's the best superhero ever. I don't remember what word.

[Mark Agnor]

It's in a suit that's, like a little too big for him. So. Yeah, it's my dad's. I'm just trying to. Trying to fit in.

[David]

It's a ruptured blood vessel in the brain. Oh, he nut it so hard. Oh, that he.

[Mark Agnor]

Is that true?

[David]

No.

[Mark Agnor]

It could be.

[David]

Could be.

[Mark Agnor]

Also, apparently he got. There was something about a husband, that there was an angry husband that was.

[David]

So in another version, he would have a male lover who murdered. Murdered him out of jealousy.

[Mark Agnor]

A male lover that murdered him out of jealousy?

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnor]

Whoa, what is this? According to his harshest critic, Bishop Lutrepond, the young pope had been hit by a stroke while having sex with a married lady. Struck by paralysis, John lay in bed for eight days until the devil himself dealt him a blow to the temple. According to another version, the Pope was fit as a fiddle while he frantically fornicated with a friend.

[David]

Who wrote this Guy who loves alliteration.

[Mark Agnor]

This is me in ninth grade. According to another version, he was fit. And then the problem was the husband was fitter. This is Dr. Seuss wrote this. He burst in the room, lifted John by the neck, tossed him from the window. As I said, out with a bang. One way or another. All right. Biography.org this guy's a little chipper on the keys, if I shall say so myself. So there he goes, that guy. John the 12th. I'm going to put him at number one so far. What do you guys think is one being the worst? One would be the worst.

[David]

Put him at 10. He sounds sick.

[Mark Agnor]

He sounds chill. But of all the people we've gone through, I would say he's the worst. Pope Paul iv. His real name is Gian Petro Carafa. He was born near Benevento in 1476. His papacy lasted from 1555 until he passed away in 1559. Just a good short four years. One of his most notorious acts was issuing the papal bull Cum numis absurdum in 19. In 1555. Which ordered the creation of a Jewish ghetto in Rome. Oops. Forced Jews to live in a walled off area, restricted their rights and subjected them to discriminatory measures. As a Catholic. My bad.

[David]

He's number 10.

[Mark Agnor]

My bad. Juice. Oh, man. That's not great that he did that. I mean, how bad was it? Let's just see. They were forced to wear distinctive yellow hats. They were already kind of doing that. For the record, he just changed the color. Okay, it's hard to defend the Catholic sometimes. All right? I try my best, but, you know, you start committing, like, quasi genocide and it's hard to support them. They were locked in at night. If it's on Shabbos, they do that. Anyway, all but one synagogue in the city was destroyed. That's not good. Jews were forbidden to trade in anything but food and secondhand clothes. Ugh. Not great. Buffy, what are you about to.

[David]

It's not great.

[Mark Agnor]

It's not great. That's all right. Paul, you racist mofo. You can't do that. If you're going to be. If you're going to be pope, you can't be racist against anyone. Specifically the prequel, as I call the Jews. You got to understand. I look at the Abrahamic religion as the Godfather series. Okay, they're one. Look. Jews, Christianity, Islam. One, two, three. I like all of two.

[David]

One, three. The second is the best one.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, that's Christianity.

[David]

Yeah, I'm agreeing with you.

[Mark Agnor]

So we're on the same page.

[David]

We're on the same page, but I'm.

[Mark Agnor]

Saying chronologically, it's Judaism, Christianity, Islam. Godfather 1, 2, and 3.

[David]

Yes.

[Mark Agnor]

You see my point. I see your point, but I like all of them. I'm not against. Why are you winking?

[David]

Well, I didn't wink.

[Mark Agnor]

Yes, you did.

[David]

No, I didn't.

[Mark Agnor]

Are you on? Is he off camera? Because I feel like he's being subtly racist. No. Shout out to all of them Jews, Muzzies, you have a spot here in the tent. And I'm sorry about the. About Paul iv. That was. That's. That sucks. I'm sorry he did that, guys. That just pisses me off. I hate racism. What? I'm being serious. That pisses me off. That's how I feel about racism. Fuck. I'm not going to stop until we're. We eradicate racism. Paul IV introduced the index librorium prohibitorium. That's a cute name to crack down on. Protestantism. That's something we can all get behind, right? That is something that, in this tent, we absolutely support. But let's just see what he did. All books written by Protestants were banned, along with Italian and German translations of the Bible. I'm listening. He imprisoned Cardinal Giovanni Morone, whom he suspected of being a hidden Protestant, despite a lack of evidence. That's not as great. But look, Protestants. Enough. Enough with the. With the loud. Look, if you follow Jesus Christ, I support you, okay? I got your back. But it's just a lot of singing, right? It's just a lot of, like, hand waving, speaking in tongues. It's just a lot. Shout out to y'all. I got your back. I support you. At the. At the end of times, we'll all be reunited in the kingdom of heaven. God has a spot for all of us in the choir of angels. But just chill for a fucking. Right? It's just a lot. It's like, oh, the Holy Spirit's in me. Hey, just go to church and then go help a poor guy. You don't need this constant. God's talking to me. I hear him in my sleep. I'm gonna put this guy at second. I think the first guy was more evil. No, this guy's more evil, actually. I take that back. I Wasn't thinking. I was just thinking of the process and think, this guy's more evil. You round up an ethnic group, that's going to put you at the top of the list. The other guy was just banging out.

[David]

People to spare Chrisos a bunch of work. These are final, right? You're not. You can't have him, like, rearrange the rankings as we go on and of.

[Mark Agnor]

Course I rearrange the rankings. I don't know who's coming next.

[David]

Yeah, but that's like the whole point of blind ranking them.

[Mark Agnor]

I didn't know it was blind ranking.

[David]

We are blind ranking them.

[Mark Agnor]

Who says we're blind ranking? All right, fine. In that case, we're blind ranking them. The first one is 10. Because what did he.

[David]

Because he was sick?

[Mark Agnor]

Because he was chill as hell. He was down kind of hailed Satan a couple times, which isn't great, but it's sort of hardcore. And we don't know what he did with that bishop, but he was. But look, we need to get the bishop on the record. And then this guy, Paul iv, number one, I'm gonna bubby. I'm gonna put him. You probably gotta put him at like 2 or 3.

[David]

Also, this guy was like a mafia guy.

[Mark Agnor]

Who?

[David]

Pope Paul IV.

[Mark Agnor]

What do you mean?

[David]

Pope Paul IV's nationalism was a driving force. He used the office to preserve some liberties in the face of fourfold foreign occupation. Like Pope Paul iii. He was an enemy of the Colonna.

[Mark Agnor]

Family at this time. In 1555, it looks like it. How far back is this going? Italians been fucking whopped out for 700 years.

[David]

They were flipping olive oil for hundreds of years.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, that's crazy. How are that. How are they like that over there? That's so wild. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I want to talk to you about the most discreet, coolest way to curb your nicotine cravings. And that's right here with Zipix. You've probably seen me chomping on a couple of these toothpicks during the episodes of this podcast. I like to use a little bit of nicotine when I'm locking in on a long term conversation with someone trying to figure out the, you know, deep meanings of life and aliens or even consciousness. I also like it when I'm trying to write. Sometimes right before I go on stage, I find that it just gives me a little bit more of a locked in feeling. I can focus for a little bit longer. There's even been some studies to show that Nicotine has improved aspects of fine motor skills, attention and auditory processing and memory. So if you're trying to lock in for a little project you have, you just need a little boost. A little bit of nicotine is great and these are great if you're trying to quit smoking too. You don't want to fill your lungs up with smoke, but you still like the little nicotine feel. They have a bunch of great flavors. They also have 2 milligram and 3 milligram options. Zipix toothpicks are great for flights, little sporting event, or even just hanging out with the boys having a couple drinks. Zipix has helped hundreds of thousands of customers get their nicotine fix without needing to inhale, smoke or vapes or any of that stuff. So if you're interested, go to zippix. That's zip pix toothpicks.com and the listeners of this program will get 10% off their first order by Ryan Reynolds Here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless Way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments.

[David]

But that's weird.

[Mark Agnor]

Okay, one judgment anyway.

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[Mark Agnor]

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[Mark Agnor]

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[Mark Agnor]

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[Mark Agnor]

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[David]

Make, make, just make sure they, you know, have a neighborhood for their own.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, you know, give them a spot where they can trade in clothes and food.

[David]

Oh, look at that.

[Mark Agnor]

Why do they look like they're in Toy Story 3?

[David]

They got selected out of a vending machine.

[Mark Agnor]

Come on, bro. See, sometimes there's Good in the bad. You know, I think that's a good lesson drip, though. I mean, be honest, you wouldn't want to toss a ring on that thing.

[David]

Some.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. Here's a shekel for your troubles.

[David]

Some loser in Bushwick would wear that today.

[Mark Agnor]

Yes. 100. Now, look, we're allowed to joke about this because no one died. Is that facts? I don't look it up, but as far as I'm concerned, that's what happened. Cardinal Giovanni Moron. He was put in prison for being a Protestant, but that's all we know. But it is so funny. How do you find out that someone's a Protestant? Like, he's just wearing like a V neck letter A, like, like in back in Catholic times. How do you know someone's a Protestant? He's just got skinny jeans and like coiffed hair. He's like, I just love Jesus. It's my personal relationship.

[David]

Is that the stereotype of Protestants?

[Mark Agnor]

That's how I see him. I just love Jesus.

[David]

Also you until like five years ago.

[Mark Agnor]

No, I'm a Catholic, bro. I. I go, I. I'm ritualistic. I have a long liturgy that I support and, you know, proclaim. I'm like these Protestants. I'm just joking. Protestants, I love you guys.

[David]

Who's the next pope?

[Mark Agnor]

Pope Sixtus the Fourth.

[David]

What's his name?

[Mark Agnor]

Sixtus the Fourth. So you think it's Sixtus, but actually he's the fourth. Former head of the Catholic Church. There he is. Pope 6 is the fourth. Francesco de Rovera was born near Abyssola in 1414. His parents were of modest means, and from an early age he was directed towards the Franciscan order. Francesco distinguished himself academically, studied philosophy and theology. So far, this guy sounds awesome. His intellectual prowess led him to prestigious teaching positions at Bologna, Pavia, Siena and Florence, where he counted the eminent Cardinal Bessarion among his disciples. When Pope Paul II died unexpectedly in 1471, the College of Cardinals gathered to select a successor. While Francesco's scholarly reputation was certainly respected his college his election was largely influenced by political considerations within the college. Various factions saw him in a candidate who might advance their interests. And after deliberations, he was elected in 1471. His consecration took place on August 25, and he chose the name of Sixtus IV to honor his papal predecessor of the same name. So far, this guy is great. Sixtus IV abused his position to shower his family with gifts and power. He appointed six of his nephews as cardinals, granted his sister's luxurious homes in Rome, bestowed lordship and high ranking positions upon other relatives. Out of 34 cardinals he created during his papacy, almost none were properly qualified. He often appointed individuals based on loyalty rather than merit. He also established the Spanish Inquisition. 1478, he issued a papal bull that created the infamous Inquisition, which has sweeping power to detain, interrogate, and torture people on the slightest accusation. This institution was targeted mostly towards Jews and any non Christians. All right. Oh, and three. I guess not. Great. You can't do that.

[David]

I thought the Inquisition was against Muslims, like, exclusively.

[Mark Agnor]

Look, according to Jesus, it's shoes.

[David]

And this is what the posts were saying.

[Mark Agnor]

Non Christians. I'm just saying, dude. I don't know. You might have been on X. You might have gotten your information from X. 106 is the fourth. Along with his nephew, his nephew Riaro and Francesco supported and formed a conspiracy within the Pazzi family to overthrow the Medici family in Florence. To fund his lavish projects and support his family, Sixtus IV engaged in controversial practice of selling church offices and the forgiveness of sins for money. So on its face, you're like, oh, this isn't that bad, you know what I mean? Just a little Inquisition here and there. Helped out his family, Put his mom in a Benz, you know what I mean? You get your mom out of the hood, like, put her on a Mustang, fam. I fuck with you, fam. Yo, you were out the hood, fam, and your mom's still living in the hood. That makes me sick to my stomach. But this guy didn't do that. He went and put. Put his mama in a Benz. That's fire. Put her on South Beach. You gotta love that. So, look, I don't have a real problem with that. I mean, I think eroding the institution of the church is probably not great.

[David]

No, wait, did. Did Martin Luther's thing come after this?

[Mark Agnor]

Don't even say that name around here. No, no, but seriously, the Reformation, I think, was shortly after. But he started Wittenberg, Germany. Let me see. Martin Luther Reformation date. You're saying Pope 6, this 15.

[David]

17.

[Mark Agnor]

1517 is when they say that the Reformation begun when he pinned his 95 theses.

[David]

So 34 years after he died.

[Mark Agnor]

Precisely. But that is largely what begets the Reformation, is that this guy's selling indulgences, saying that the only way to get to heaven is by giving us your last golden shekel and we will get you into pearly gates. It's fucked up. I honestly think you could make a claim that this guy, despite not really doing anything that bad, you know, I mean, smashing position, whatever, is arguably the worst Pope ever. Because he's what, ushered in the rise of Protestantism. Yeah, he ushered in the fall of the Catholic Church.

[David]

So we have a guy who gambled and fucked a lot, a guy who gave Jews really cool hats.

[Mark Agnor]

We put it that way, honestly.

[David]

And then a guy who just put his mom in a penthouse, but also.

[Mark Agnor]

Destroyed the Catholic Church. This guy, I might put it too, honestly.

[David]

Oh, shut up.

[Mark Agnor]

He destroyed the church and made.

[David]

The guy was persecuting Jews, forced people.

[Mark Agnor]

I'm saying. I'm saying, if the church never broke up, how much better? Imagine what the world would look like with no Reformation. Can you even imagine what that is?

[David]

No, I can't. All right, this is your show.

[Mark Agnor]

Spaceships, you and me, flying around like, oh, what the hell did you say, Gabe? We already have a number two. Pope John the fourth. I put him there. Damn it. All right, I'll put this guy at three, then three, he goes, pope Francis.

[David]

Better be number one.

[Mark Agnor]

With gays.

[David]

He's letting gays walk around Vatican now.

[Mark Agnor]

What next? They got like, gay people adopt dogs. The guy that thinks Pope Francis the worst. I mean, look at this guy. He's got. He's bringing a DJ to the Vatican. It's like a bunch of fanooks running around the square. All right, perp Sergius iii, this guy, whose real name is unknown, was rife with political maneuvering, where lines between religious authority and worldly ambition blurred accusations of immortality. What? Immorality. That's a crazy accusation. Like, yo, I think you're immortal. All right, well, yeah, he looks evil profile for sure. Evil, though.

[David]

He mouth tapes for sure.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, yeah. Nah. Is he mewing? Yeah, I mean, just like, are we sure he's Catholic? We gotta see the pace. But no, he's looks. Looks maxing, for real. I mean, he looks unbelievable. I mean, minus the hair. But anyway, do we have a Keeps or a Him sponsor for this episode?

[David]

I'm working on that.

[Mark Agnor]

That'd be a good place, actually. Oh, yeah, I should ask you, but, yeah, we should drop that in here right now. If you're losing your hair turkey, check it out. How do we get sponsored by a Turkish hair transplant company?

[David]

I'm working on it.

[Mark Agnor]

Are you really?

[David]

No, I'm working on him.

[Mark Agnor]

So we'll look into that.

[David]

I'm actually going to clip this and send it to him. Just be like, mark loves your stuff.

[Mark Agnor]

Huge fan. Huge, huge fan. I mean, I have the hair for a hair sponsor.

[David]

They do more than hair.

[Mark Agnor]

See, now you're shilling for them. Okay. And this is why I can't.

[David]

They do Lexa Pro.

[Mark Agnor]

All in one. Did I tell you about my male enhancement gum product that I'm going to be releasing?

[David]

Yeah. You know. You didn't.

[Mark Agnor]

Go ahead, I say, you want to show me that?

[David]

Tell me.

[Mark Agnor]

I take that personally. This is a product that I'm going to be rolling out within the next five to eight years. This is a male enhancement gum. Okay. It is really tough. So it's like.

[David]

Like a Jaws or Sizer?

[Mark Agnor]

It's like a Jaws or Sizer. You could think of it that way. It's. It comes from specifically a tree SAP found in Greece and Chios. It's specifically one area. And so it's like a. It's like hard resin. And so it actually will give your jaw more definition. But also it has caffeine in it. Give you a little. Give you a kick. Also it has nicotine in it. And also it has blue chew in. Also has Ms. In it. It has Lexapro in it. I mean, you're gonna tell me you're not feeling amazing. Oh, and it's minty flavored, so. Breath smells good. Yeah, it's rock hard.

[David]

Your hair is great.

[Mark Agnor]

Your betas are blocked. You know what I mean?

[David]

You know who's not depressed?

[Mark Agnor]

You. This guy.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnor]

You're gonna tell me you don't want some of this. Oh, guess who's a spokesperson. The Rizzler. That's why we have to wait. That's why we have to wait to roll the product out. And don't worry, you can get it and not flavored. Okay? If you're like, oh, I don't like mint. We also have Cool Ranch coming to a gas station near you. Right next to the beat. Are you kidding? It's just the Rizzler. His heart's exploding. Nicotine in a blood thinner all in one. That's gonna put you on your ass. Oh, my God.

[David]

Can we get back to the Boes, please?

[Mark Agnor]

The most evil pope you've ever seen. This. What? This is what some of the posts probably look like. What? It's a young Italian kid trying to make. Yeah, just a young Italian. So this guy, Sergius iii, he was evil. This guy was a bad dude. Apparently became a member of the clergy at a young age. 893 Pope Formosus installed surges as the Bishop of S. Pope Theodore II made him reconfirmed his ordination. Sergius III is believed to have ordered the murders of two immediate predecessors, Pope Leo V and anti Pope Christopher. What the hell's an anti pope. Dude, I already said, was there a woman pope? And you said, no. Can we look? An anti pope. Anti pope Christopher. Whoa. Yeah. He claimed the papacy. Although he was listed as a legitimate pope. And most modern lists. Oh, his papacy is disputed w. The apparent uncanonical method in which he obtained the papacy led to is being removed from the quasi office roster of popes. Wow. So it's kind of like a Mark McGuire. There's like an asterisk next to his name. It's like, hey, you did your thing. Oh, he only served for like a. Like a couple months. October to January. I mean, come on. That's a barely winter. It's like a half a season. So, yeah, this guy apparently killed people, which is not good. Leo V was reportedly strangled while Christopher was also killed under suspicious circumstances. This makes him the only pope alleged to have directly ordered the assassination of another pontiff. Serge III allegedly had affair with Marozia, a powerful Roman noblewoman and member of the influential philophyll phylacti family. All right, we'll edit that. Just do AI or something to fix how I pronounced all these words. Their relationship reportedly resulted in an illegitimate son, which I hate when people say that. An illegitimate son. What does that even mean? Bastard, I guess. But, like, bastard at least makes sense because it's like, oh, that's what it means when you have a kid. When you're not married. But an illegitimate son. It's like, you're my son.

[David]

But, like, illegitimate son makes sense in terms of, like, line of succession, I guess.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, he's the illegitimate heir.

[David]

Sure.

[Mark Agnor]

I don't know. It's not. What do you mean? Illegitimate? Anyway, this illegitimate son later became Pope John VI. Or the 11th, maybe. This whole thing is corrupt top to bottom. What's going on? I mean. Oh, that's the girl that everyone was dogging. Marozia.

[David]

Fat Susie.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, Fat Susie from around the way. Come on. And what does she have in her hair? I mean, what is that? It's just like a box.

[David]

She's got ears on her.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, I mean, I can't even.

[David]

Buddha.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, she does. She has a Buddha vibe for sure. And do we have any photos of her? Is it just drawings?

[David]

Dude. What?

[Mark Agnor]

It's worth asking. I don't know. Yeah, it looks like we just have drawings. Damn. I mean, yeah, this head situation is cool.

[David]

Oh, that one's not that bad. The colored one on the.

[Mark Agnor]

Hey, whoa. We don't say that anymore. That was wrong with you. I mean, she's got a piece and this one. Wait, that might be Sergius iii. I don't know. What's going on? He was reaffirmed. The infamous Cadaver Syned, originally conducted by Pope Stephen vi, which involved exhuming and desecrating the corpse of Pope Formosus. He convened a council that annulled all ordinations formed by Formosus, using bribery and threats to secure approval from clergy members. This decision caused widespread unrest and was ignored by many bishops outside of Rome. His papacy is marked by bribery, violence and manipulation to consolidate power. Sergius III reportedly threatened clergy with exile or violence to enforce his decrees during councils. This guy's pretty bad. I mean, he actually was involved in murdering people, which is what people though? No, two guys. Christopher.

[David]

Christopher.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, and. Yeah, Christopher. Which McCall? It. The other guy.

[David]

The antipope.

[Mark Agnor]

Antipopus Christopher.

[David]

Oh.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh. Marozia was around 15 years old when she became his mistress. Ste. Can't do that, right? Can't do that at all. Even back in those days. What were you about to say, David? Absolutely. You're about to do something thoughtful.

[David]

Nothing.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, this guy's pretty bad. He killed two people. The antipope Christopher and Leo V. Not good. Yeah, we know. I'm just going to teach him a lesson. You know, maybe you swim with the fishes or something. I don't know. I think this guy's got to go like one. What? He murdered people, bro. Oh my God. How is ranking systems horrible? What would. What is your ranking?

[David]

11. What I didn't do, but like, he murdered one person.

[Mark Agnor]

He banged out a 15 year old.

[David]

Who hasn't? When the 15.

[Mark Agnor]

Wait, when who? All right, so, I mean, why. What do you think, Gabe? You think that's crazy to put him there? What? He murdered people. What is your. What do you think is a bad thing to do?

[David]

Are you saying murdering someone is worse than persecuting the Jews and the Muslims out of the Iberian Peninsula? One person, two people?

[Mark Agnor]

This is kind of a utilitarian debate, right? Is it worse for one person to be tortured for the rest of their life or for all people on earth to get a speck of dust in their eye at one moment?

[David]

What if that person. Out of the million people that get a speck of dust in their eye, how many of them are like tow truck drivers on the highway and that veers them into the street and kills?

[Mark Agnor]

I don't know, maybe like a handful.

[David]

Okay, a handful.

[Mark Agnor]

But who knows if they hit anyone. Let's say they don't even hit anyone. Let's say it just happens. To each person while they're doing something innocuous. Well, who dies? What.

[David]

What is.

[Mark Agnor]

No one dies.

[David]

No, no, but the person that does die, in the latter or in the former example, are they bad people?

[Mark Agnor]

Wait, who dies?

[David]

You said it's either what's worse, one person dying, or no, one person gets.

[Mark Agnor]

Tortured for their whole life and then they die.

[David]

I mean, everyone dies.

[Mark Agnor]

There you go. Or everyone just gets a speck of dust in their eye at one moment during the day while they're, you know, eating breakfast.

[David]

I think the speck of dust is.

[Mark Agnor]

Worse because it's the overall suffering. Yeah. So if you had to choose one, you'd be like, oh, let's just have one person get tortured for the entirety of their life.

[David]

Yeah, just like tickle them to death.

[Mark Agnor]

No, that's not torture.

[David]

That's torture.

[Mark Agnor]

That's. I mean, have you ever been tickled? Torture for you.

[David]

It's horrible.

[Mark Agnor]

One man's torture, another man's fetish. I don't know. All right, fine. I'll put him at three. Fine.

[David]

Oh, that's still too high five.

[Mark Agnor]

He murdered.

[David]

What's the highest one we have available? Gabe.

[Mark Agnor]

What?

[David]

That's impossible. I meant lowest. Whatever.

[Mark Agnor]

Nine.

[David]

Nine. Put him at nine.

[Mark Agnor]

Fine. I've been swayed. He'll go at nine. Pope Boniface viii. He belonged to the Catini family. His uncle was a high ranking official in Italy. He also had a grand uncle who served as pope. Pope Alexander iv. That'd be crazy if your uncle was pope, right? I mean, just what a world. You just be like, yeah, my uncle, he's a Pope. Pope Alexander iv. I mean. Wait, hang on a second. Oh, sick hat.

[David]

Swaggy.

[Mark Agnor]

I guess that is a good question. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. It's tax season and we're all a bit tired of numbers, but here's one you need to hear. $16.5 billion. That's how much the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Now here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail]. podcast terms apply. Does Pope Francis have a nephew or a niece?

[David]

I'm sure he does. Let me look at this up.

[Mark Agnor]

Right, Like a good Argentinian man.

[David]

No good. No Argentinian man is good.

[Mark Agnor]

Leo.

[David]

Worst person in the world.

[Mark Agnor]

Leo Messi.

[David]

Or worst horrible? He's a with autism.

[Mark Agnor]

That's the worst take I've ever Heard. Where is this coming from?

[David]

You should never read. None. He has four siblings. I'm sure one of them has kids.

[Mark Agnor]

Wow, that's crazy.

[David]

He's 88 years old. Yeah, dude, he's got to die soon.

[Mark Agnor]

What do you mean, has to?

[David]

He has to die soon.

[Mark Agnor]

I wouldn't say no.

[David]

Argentinian man should have the highest seat in Catholicism.

[Mark Agnor]

You know, he used to be a bouncer.

[David]

Yeah, I'm sure he was. That's an honor for Argentinian men.

[Mark Agnor]

Why do you think it's Argentina? Does someone break your heart?

[David]

No, Impossible.

[Mark Agnor]

I don't understand where this is coming from.

[David]

December 17, 2022. That's when my life ended. Argentina won the World Cup.

[Mark Agnor]

Against who? Who do you support? Ecuador. You thought Ecuador had a fighting chance against Argentina?

[David]

No, it's. Technically, we went to penalties with them in the Copa America in 2024, but as a Ronaldo fan, I died that day.

[Mark Agnor]

Get off. Anyway, he was working with his uncle Benedetto and joined the Order of Friars and spent time in their monastery. And then he became a cardinal. In 1281, Pope Boniface VIII confiscated lands of property belonging to powerful Colonna family in Italy, redistributing them to his own relatives. This act of nepotism and aggression led to a bitter feud with the family and eventually participated in his abduction in 1303. Whoops. After promising mercy to the people of Palestrina if they surrendered, Boniface ordered the town to be destroyed and its earth salted. An act of betrayal that shocked contemporaries. Damn. Salting the earth. That is just kind of wild to do. I mean, that is a grudge. To eliminate a potential rival, Boniface allegedly imprisoned his predecessor, Pope Celestine V, after forcing his abdication. Celestine later died in captivity under suspicious circumstances, leading to accusations of foul play. Boniface was accused of simony, selling church offices for personal gain. Dante Alighieri was exiled due to Boniface's political maneuvering in Florence, placing him in hell in the Divine Comedy for corruption and simony. He died shortly. Shortly after his abduction. All right, this guy doesn't seem that evil to me.

[David]

What did he. He just had, like, political enemies.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. He stole land from people and then redistributed to his family.

[David]

More nepotism. That's fine.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. He promised mercy to people of the land if they surrendered, but then he ordered the whole town to be destroyed and then salted the earth.

[David]

What does that mean?

[Mark Agnor]

What do you mean, salted the earth? Like, you literally pour salt all over the earth. So all over the Ground. So that the. That's not funny. Why'd you actually.

[David]

You said literally salted the earth?

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. No, he put salt on the. I mean, you've heard the term.

[David]

I've heard the term. I just never questioned it.

[Mark Agnor]

He put salt all over the earth, and then now you can't grow any crops or goods on the earth. I keep saying earth.

[David]

Yeah, that's why I'm laughing. It's like every cubic centimeter.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, it's just the ground, I guess.

[David]

Okay, that's not that bad.

[Mark Agnor]

But it is kind of ironic that you call a great person salt of the earth, but then if you want to destroy a town, you salt the earth. Kind of crazy, right?

[David]

Kind of crazy. But that's it.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, that's basically all it seems like.

[David]

I think we started off too strong.

[Mark Agnor]

But he also sold church offices for personal gain. And Dante. Of Dante's Inferno.

[David]

That one. Really?

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. The Divine Comedy. He put him in hell. Who do you think wrote the Divine Comedy in the idea of Dante's Inferno?

[David]

I knew it was Dante. I just didn't know it was that Dante.

[Mark Agnor]

Dante Alighieri. So eight. Yeah, but if Dante thinks he's evil, I mean, maybe that was just for his time. All right. Pope Benedict ix. Old B. Dix. The Count of Tusculum was the father of Benedict Benedict IX and named him Theophylactus. The official title was Theophylactus of Tusculum. He was extremely young when he became Pope for the first time and was unprepared for the job, though official records show that he was 20. Monk Rupert Glaber alleges that he was as young as 11. That's crazy. How is. How do you put an 11 year old as the Pope?

[David]

It was going on back then.

[Mark Agnor]

I don't understand. I mean, I guess people just die all the time. I mean, this must be. What was this, 10? Like, the schism happened right around this time.

[David]

Did they still select Popes the same way as we do now?

[Mark Agnor]

I think so, yeah. They have like a whole congregation. Congregation. Light up some smoke. Have you seen this?

[David]

Yeah, I'm Catholic. I know.

[Mark Agnor]

Benedict IX received the position after his father paid off a group of Romans. He was expelled from Italy due to widespread dissatisfaction with his immoral behavior. Emperor Conrad II sent forces to secure his return and put him back in control. He was Pope on three different occasions. Benedict IX was accused of hosting orgies at the Lateran palace involving both men and animals. Ugh. Depraved 14 year old. What the hell? Pope Victor III described Benedict's papacy as so vile, so evil, so exacerable, that I shudder to think of it. Referring to his R words. Murders and other unspeakable.

[David]

Wait, say the first part again.

[Mark Agnor]

His. His R words. I don't want to say the word.

[David]

Oh, I thought you meant retard.

[Mark Agnor]

Hey, kid. Whoa.

[David]

Say graves.

[Mark Agnor]

That's crazy.

[David]

He was so sick.

[Mark Agnor]

It's kind of chill, but no. This guy's doing bad things. He's doing R words. Murders and other unspeakable acts of violence inside of me.

[David]

This guy degraded the. The religion, so this could be high.

[Mark Agnor]

Thank you.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnor]

1045, Benedict IX became the first person in history to sell the papacy. He sold his position to John Gration. Just sounds like a guy. Why?

[David]

He sold being the Pope.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah.

[David]

Oh, that's not great.

[Mark Agnor]

And he did it to finance his wedding or establish a pension. Whoa. That's great. Socialist. Wait a second. Bernie bro. Wait a second. All time Bernie bro. Is that what he was doing? 1049, Benedict refused to appear on charges of simony and was subsequently excommunicated. Benedict was forced out of Rome twice due to opposition to his dissolute lifestyle. September 1044, he was expelled from the city and Sylvester III was elected to replace him. It's important to note that while these accusations are severe, some historians caution that reports of Benedict's misdeeds may have been exaggerated by his political opponents. What? Hey, just say he just a sheep, huh? Just say he's banging out sheep, and then we'll just kind of just ruin his reputation. There's nothing. Yeah, this guy's great.

[David]

That every post Just Italian.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, we don't talk about that enough.

[David]

What was that quote from Cuomo?

[Mark Agnor]

Which one?

[David]

I'm not creepy. I'm just Italian.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. Come on. Well, I didn't bang a Sheba medallion. All right, let's get the sheep side of the story, huh? Let's see what the sheep at is.

[David]

How do you know that sheep didn't come on to me?

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, right. I'm a victim. You saw that. That sheep was looking at me. I mean, yeah, Pope Victor III said, so vile, so foul, so exacerable. Ex. Execrable. I don't even know what that word is.

[David]

That.

[Mark Agnor]

He shudders to think of it. I'm going to say this guy's pretty evil. Can we put him at three?

[David]

I don't think we can.

[Mark Agnor]

Shall we? What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because I'm sitting here in my beautiful tent as you can See, every week, day in, day out, and people always ask, they say, mark, how do I have a tent like that? I want to sit in a beautiful tent and invite a lover, a friend, you know, someone that I appreciate and adore. I want to give them a good time inside my tent. Well, it's easy. Thanks to the good folks [e-mail]. that's right. Bluechew is the original OG brand offering chewable tablets. And what do these tablets do? Oh, I'm glad you asked. They are going to give you the just in a stronger, harder and longer lasting sexual performance. That's right. They're going to help you pitch a tent, any place, anywhere. And the best part, it's all done online. That means you don't have to go to a doctor's office and, you know, talk to them, be like, oh, you know, I'm feeling some type of way. Look, this is not for people that are, you know, lacking necessarily. This is for people to want to have the best experience of their life, whether it's Valentine's Day, birthday, a funeral, who knows, whenever you need it. You never know when you could use bluechew. And we have a special deal for the listeners of this program. That's right. Try your first month of BlueChew for free. That's right. Completely free. Mark, is it gonna work for me? Is this, hey, it's free. Why not just try it? Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank BlueChew for sponsoring this podcast. All right, now let's get after it and let's get back to the show. All right. Pope Alexander vi. He grew up in Chatavia, which is now part of Spain, when his maternal uncle, Pope Calextus iii, adopted the name Rodrigo Borja. After studying law at the University of Bologna and earning a degree, he became the Cardinal deacon of a local church. Rodrigo spent many years serving the church in different roles and had experience working with five popes before he became the Pope himself. His church career started in 1445 when he was just 14 years old. His rise through the church hierarchy helped along by his uncle, Alphonse de Borja, who had been elevated to the rank of cardinal by Pope Eugene. Leveraging his newfound influence, Cardinal Alphonse secured his young nephew the position of sacristan at the prestigious Cathedral of Valencia. This appointment marked the beginning of Rodrigo's long and controversial journey within the Catholic Church, which would eventually lead him to the papal throne as Pope Alexander vi. Alexander used his position to enrich his family, particularly his children. Wait, hold on a second. How do you have children? He carved out fiefdoms from papal lands for his offspring and arrange political, politically advantageous marriages for them. Alexander VI was known for his extramarital affairs and fathered several children, all of whom were illegitimate. What are the odds? These kids are just looking at themselves, like, I'm not even legit, dude. Right? All these people are like, yo, I'm too legit. I'm like, literally, you're not legit. Literally, you are the definition of illegitimate. He allegedly shared a mistress with his rival, who later became Pope Julius ii.

[David]

Imagine that girl.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, Eskimo bros with the Pope.

[David]

She has two popes under her butt.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, that's crazy.

[David]

Wait, who was the girl? Was it. You're just Vanoza.

[Mark Agnor]

What did you say?

[David]

Was it Vanoza de Catan Katana?

[Mark Agnor]

I don't know who that is. Is that someone you know that's not related to you? I don't know what you do.

[David]

What you look at is Wikipedia. I can't pronounce this fucking name.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, no one can. I don't think anyone can. Alexander VI confiscated property for wealthy individuals. Woke often on false charges. Fine. To enrich himself and eliminate rivals. This guy's a modern day Luigi Manjone. Right? He's going after the rich, giving it to the slightly less rich.

[David]

His children.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, which, if you look at what Robin Hood did, he did the same. Almost the exact same.

[David]

What's the difference?

[Mark Agnor]

Robin Hood gave it to everybody. I guess. Yeah, but this guy only gave it to his kids. But again, take it from the rich given to the slightly less rich. I'm just saying, dude, look into it. He might be onto something. There were rumors of an incestuous relationship with his daughter, Lucrezia. But if she's his illegitimate daughter, I think game on. Fueled by confusing papal decrees. See, there's always a loophole, Right? You always gotta find there's always a way. He allowed his daughter Lucrezia to preside over church affairs in his absence. Shocking the Vatican. 1501. Alexander VI and his son Quesaday allegedly hosted a scandalous party involving 50 courtesans in the papal palace. However, modern historians doubt the veracity of this account. Who are the historians? Just his, like, grand enough nephew or some shit. Like, nah, he wasn't fucking anyone. Come on, you guys.

[David]

I don't want to be gross, but his daughter's a piece.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, whammy.

[David]

If that was your illegitimate daughter, let me check.

[Mark Agnor]

Yep.

[David]

Gay son or illegitimate daughter?

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, yeah, she got the absolute treatment back in the day. I mean, how old is she in this picture? Can we just verify that she's. Let's not verify that she's obviously 18. Daughter of Pope Alexander VI. This is a paperback from Walmart. Why are all these pages stuck together? What's going on? Why you got a book here on the COVID You got a dog here. Come on. I mean, that's wild. We got some other pigs. She had a linksy. Check her link tree. Can we.

[David]

Oh, that's fire. There's nip in that.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh.

[David]

Oh. She looks like an illegitimate son in this one.

[Mark Agnor]

Are you kidding me? Look like she got some layups. Playing deep, too. All right. I mean, yeah, this is.

[David]

I mean, she's a baddie. That's the first baddie I've seen from this era in my life.

[Mark Agnor]

What. What era? Which is a medieval.

[David]

I don't know, pre 20th century.

[Mark Agnor]

Where are we? Yeah, I mean, I just feel like. You don't know. Like, you're just saying, like, prior to the 1900s.

[David]

Yeah, even that. 1950.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, yeah. It was just. It was tough sledding for a long time, and then we got filters or something.

[David]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. She's hot.

[Mark Agnor]

No, I mean, for sure. I mean, we got to blur some of the. Some of the stuff. Do we have any other. Let's go through. Let's keep on scrolling. She's got a wiki feet. Pope's daughter. All right, all right.

[David]

Not great.

[Mark Agnor]

Not ideal, but we all have bad portraits. You know what I mean?

[David]

That's a great, sad profile.

[Mark Agnor]

You never had a bad portrait taken of you.

[David]

Never in my life.

[Mark Agnor]

You never sat down. You're like, oh, that was a wrong eight hours. I just had a bad eight hours.

[David]

Oh, she was a baddie, yo.

[Mark Agnor]

Might be a piece.

[David]

Choose a piece.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, absolutely. All time. And your dad's the Pope. You're like, yeah, you know, my dad's Pope, so.

[David]

Yeah, my illegitimate father.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, My illegitimate daddy is actually the Pope, so he's my father and my daddy. What? That's. She's. That's the padre. I'm just saying. That is crazy that you got to have. If you're a pope, you can't be having kids and then have people know about them. I mean, that's insane.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, what did this guy even do? I feel like he's not that.

[David]

It's just another nepotism thing. Like, yeah, he slutted out his daughter.

[Mark Agnor]

All right. Yeah. I mean, what, eight. What do we have left.

[David]

You keep saying eight. We ran out of AIDS since the first one.

[Mark Agnor]

All right, fine.

[David]

Go six.

[Mark Agnor]

Put him at six. Also let the record show most of these bad popes were back in the day. We haven't had a. We haven't had a bad pope since medieval times.

[David]

Well, Pope John Paul II got shot. He must have been doing something wrong.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. What was the whole thing with that? What was that? Was that like a turf war?

[David]

Yeah, it was like a Turkish guy, Muslim guy that shot him.

[Mark Agnor]

What?

[David]

Yeah. You didn't know this?

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, I knew he got shot.

[David]

It was a Turkish Muslim guy, but.

[Mark Agnor]

I just didn't know the details. I don't know why. Like, was it like a gang thing? A Turkish citizen, Mehmet Ali. Oh, I gotta talk to FA about this. This is. This is. You can't do that. Ali. Aga. Aga.

[David]

Oh, look at the conspiracy theory.

[Mark Agnor]

Assassination attempt led to various conspiracy theories possibly regarding the involvement of the Bulgarians and the Russians.

[David]

Oh, he was. He was a Polok.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, yeah. You didn't know that?

[David]

I know I knew that, but reminded me.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. I mean, go to any Polish restaurant, you're gonna. You're gonna see a giant picture of this guy that's all worn down from when it came to America.

[David]

There's a statue of him in Greenpoint. Have you ever walked by?

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, I'm sure, like, I've seen the statue. I don't know if I could say I've ever walked by it.

[David]

I've walked by it. You know, this was my patron saint for my confirmation.

[Mark Agnor]

Is that true?

[David]

Yeah, that's true.

[Mark Agnor]

Why'd you pick him?

[David]

Because he loves sports. He was, like, a big soccer player. I'm like, so am I.

[Mark Agnor]

Okay, well, that's just because he's, like, the most recent Pope to become a saint.

[David]

Yeah, look at that outside. God, I cannot pronounce any of those Polish names.

[Mark Agnor]

You can pronounce that.

[David]

Stanislaus Costa Church in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, which implores the faithful. Nimoncha, meaning don't be afraid.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, that's confident. You said all those words with a lot of confidence, a lot of conviction.

[David]

All right, who we got next?

[Mark Agnor]

Pope Leo the 10th. Giovanni was the second son of Lorenzo the Magnificent, leader of the Florentine Republic. He was born with the path of the clergy already set before him. His father managed to convince Innocent viii, a relative, to make Giovanni Cardinal Deacon of Santa Maria in Dominica when he was only 13. Giovanni would not wear. What?

[David]

Two things. Number one. Gabe, go to the photo of him as a baby.

[Mark Agnor]

No way, bro. That motherfu. I've seen that image before. That's amazing.

[David]

That's in the Met, I think. I'm almost positive.

[Mark Agnor]

That's on my timeline, like once a week. That's on Instagram. His father managed to convince Innocent the eighth to make Giovanni the deacon when he was only 13. Giovanni would not wear any clerical insignia or participate in college deliberations until he turned 16. He received an education in humanities by Lorenzo Court of Influence, then moved to studying for degrees in theology and canon law from 1489 to 1491. March 1513, he was elected Pope. This guy sounds great. So far, no issues. Leo X drained the papal treasury with his lavish lifestyles, extravagant parties and patronage of the arts. He spent vast sums on rebuilding St. Peter's Basilica and funding Renaissance artists like Raphael and Michelangelo. To replenish the depleted Treasury, Leo the 10th sold church offices and cardinal positions to the highest bidders. He expanded the sale of indulgences beyond previous excesses, essentially allowing sinners to buy their way out of damnation. Leo X allegedly fabricated a plot against himself to eliminate and extort money from five cardinals that he disliked. This resulted in one execution and hefty fines for the others. Look, I know you guys are going to say, this is not a big deal. I know you guys are going to say, hey, who cares? This guy just dressed up like one of sandals elves. It's not a problem. My issue with this is that this is literally the guy that I think caused the Reformation. October 31, 1517. Yes. That is when the 95 thesis went up on the wall.

[David]

Did you fart?

[Mark Agnor]

I did. I'm sorry. I don't know what it is. I've just been protein loading and I think it's doing something in my lower. My lower intestines. You don't have this issue because you're not eating enough protein? I'm just saying, Leo the 10th is. I would say, what's the highest one we have so far left?

[David]

One or five? Five. Four and one.

[Mark Agnor]

I'm putting him at four. He destroyed Catholic Church, but this led.

[David]

To the Protestant Reformation.

[Mark Agnor]

Yes. Martin Luther put the. Put the thesis up in 1517, right. When Pope Leo the 10th was around.

[David]

So what was the worst thing he did?

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, sold indulgences and convinced basically all of Europe that the only way to get to heaven is to give up their money.

[David]

Okay, that's fine.

[Mark Agnor]

Depraved and wrong. You shouldn't do that.

[David]

So you're saying selling indulgences Indulgences is worse than excavating the Jews.

[Mark Agnor]

Excavating?

[David]

What does that mean? It sounded right.

[Mark Agnor]

I wouldn't say excavating. Look, I put the. That guy way higher. Paul iv. I put him at like three. So I'm the process of digging. Yeah. What do you think they're going through? Bones. Oh, we found Mortimer. Put Mortimer in the Natural History Museum.

[David]

You put them for these last two better be horrible because since the second one we went over, it's just nepotism and selling indulgences. And that's fine.

[Mark Agnor]

You know, the indulgences part. I'm just saying, you get to heaven through Christ and also a little bit of works here and there, you know.

[David]

Oh, yeah. And your daughter, that's not good. After looking at her. He's dead.

[Mark Agnor]

Pope Stephen vi.

[David]

Steven.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah.

[David]

That doesn't sound like a Pope name.

[Mark Agnor]

Steve.

[David]

Steve.

[Mark Agnor]

Old Stevie Sixes. He was the Pope from some time. We don't know exactly when.

[David]

896 to his death.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, 897. He was only Pope for about a year.

[David]

It must have been horrible.

[Mark Agnor]

Must have been bad. Scholars have debated his appointment and they were not sure if this was forced upon him. He was elected Pope in 8:97 and he followed in his father's footsteps by entering the church and receiving appointment to the bishopric of Enaghdi from Pope Formosus. Pope Formosus has a whole lot of baggage with him. We got to look into this. So his father was a priest, and then he like, is. That was the pre. When were priests not allowed to get married? When was that a thing? Because apparently in 897 this guy had a kid and then his kid became Pope. And that was not an issue for anyone.

[David]

I'm sure they went through a period of immorality where, like, people look the other way.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, wow. Priestly marriages were stopped in 1123, probably because of these. Stephen VI ordered the exhumation of his predecessor.

[David]

Exhumation?

[Mark Agnor]

Excavation. I mean, somehow your word came all the way back around. They excavated his predecessor, Pope Formosus, who had been dead for about seven months. His corp was dressed up in papal vestments, propped up on a throne, subjected to a posthumous trial. Say nothing if you're gay. Told you guys, look at this guy.

[David]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defendant clearly did not say anything.

[Mark Agnor]

Therefore he's a fan of put him on trial. And a deacon was appointed to defend the corpse. But Formosis was found guilty. So you can't forget a public defender.

[David]

Dude cuts with A Morgan.

[Mark Agnor]

Morgan. That's why you can't get a public defender. That's why if you're a corpse going to trial, you need Morgan of Morgan. All right? And call them up and they will get you. Right. I bet you they could have won it for a dead guy. Right?

[David]

Yeah, easy.

[Mark Agnor]

They probably could have. They're America's largest attorney. Trial whatever.

[David]

They're the largest US social casino.

[Mark Agnor]

The words get so tough sometimes. I just want to make my kid proud. His papacy was declared null and void, and all his acts, including ordination and appointments, were invalidated. After the trial, Stephen VI ordered that three fingers from Formosus's right hand used for blessings.

[David]

No, you got it right.

[Mark Agnor]

Shock the world. His body was stripped of its sacred vestments. He was dressed as a layman, dragged through the streets of Rome, and eventually thrown into the Tiber River.

[David]

This is the biggest hater in the world, and I love it.

[Mark Agnor]

All time hater, right?

[David]

Not only did he dig him up.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. We could have Bernied with him. He put some shades on him. They're like, nah, it's fine. Do it.

[David]

So are you gay?

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. I'm telling you.

[David]

No. But then you cut off three fingers and then you dress him as a layman. You just took his drip. Also, I love that photo because he's. He's yelling at him as if he's alive.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. And everyone just kind of went along with it.

[David]

God, the amount of people that had been like, no, that's great.

[Mark Agnor]

Do it. Yeah.

[David]

It's phenomenal.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. Like, it worked. I mean, that's crazy. This does look like a picture of Trump and Biden debating, though. Am I right, though? Am I right? Dude? Am I right? But because he's dead. Get it? Because he's seen now anyway. Yeah. I mean, this guy's an all time legend. If you're gonna. I've never hated someone so much. I'm gonna dig up their body just to ridicule them in front of their family. Right. I mean, that's sick as hell.

[David]

I can't tell if he's the worst person ever. He should be 10 on the list or.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, like what? Who did? How many people? Did he disrespect one guy? Just one. And he was already dead.

[David]

He didn't kill anyone.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. He just digged up a dead guy, excavated him, cut off his fingers. What did he do with the fingers?

[David]

You don't want to.

[Mark Agnor]

No, come on.

[David]

You don't want to know.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, my goodness. I mean, that's crazy. You hold up your Little necklace. I smell these things. Like, ew, the dead Pope's fingers. What the hell? She's got a shocker on your neck at all times. These guys are supposed to be getting people to heaven, and here they are exhuming bodies and cutting off fingers. I mean, wait, how did he not get to it? I don't know how he does.

[David]

He was thrown in prison. He was strangled to death.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, yeah. I mean, that makes sense, right?

[David]

I want to leave the one spot just in case. I feel like Jesus wrote this purposefully.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, with a closer.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnor]

You think he put a perfect closer? All right, so where do we put him? What do we got left?

[David]

I think we have five left. Besides one.

[Mark Agnor]

All right, throw him at five. Let it be. All right, here we have, number one, the most evil Pope. His name is Francis.

[David]

Seriously?

[Mark Agnor]

No, no, come on, Crazy.

[David]

Let's do that.

[Mark Agnor]

What did Pope Francis do that was so bad?

[David]

Look it up. Number one, his blood.

[Mark Agnor]

What does that mean?

[David]

It's just who he is.

[Mark Agnor]

He bleeds, you know? Baby blue and white. That's the problem. See what he did? I'm not here to talk poorly about the Pope, okay? I love the Pope. I love the Church. But the corruption of Pope Francis is of a different character. His corruption is in promoting people who are corrupt in all these ways and then personally corrupting the faith. Whoa, did my mom read this? This is literally what she's been saying this whole time. Look, I'm not of the position to say that Pope Francis is. Is the worst. I think that would be hasty.

[David]

For example, African bishops publicly criticized Pope Francis's December 2023 ruling that allowed blessings of individuals in same sex couples. No one's more homophobic than the Africans.

[Mark Agnor]

Why are they gay? Why are you gay, Padre Francis? Why do they eat a poo poo? Why? You've seen that one?

[David]

Yeah, I've seen. I got DM that last week. Porque, why are you gay?

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, yeah. Well, that makes sense. Yeah, a lot of people are curious about that.

[David]

A lot of people are curious, Miles, in the chat. All right, who's number one?

[Mark Agnor]

Actually, Pope Innocent viii.

[David]

Not so innocent.

[Mark Agnor]

Am I right? He was born Giovanni Battista Chibo. He was born in Genoa and was a part of an old Chino. How do you pronounce that?

[David]

Genoa. Genoa.

[Mark Agnor]

Genoa. Oh, no. This guy's dying through and through.

[David]

This guy's a huge.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, this guy's nipples are pepperonis. He spent most of his youth in a Neapolitan court. That is a court with black people. White People and pink people. Although, I mean, that's a bad.

[David]

Wait. Pink people. I don't get it.

[Mark Agnor]

Like a Neapolitan ice cream.

[David]

Cut that. Jesus Christ.

[Mark Agnor]

You gotta shoot sometimes. Look. Although Cibo was appointed a canon of Cathedral of Capua, however, disputes with the Archbishop of Genoa caused him to resign. He then went to Padua and Rome for his education. Innocent VIII was issued a papable the sumus disorientis affectibus in 1484, which authorized the persecution of people accused of witchcraft. This guy is awesome. The bull empowered inquisitors like Heinrich Kramer to prosecute alleged witches in Germany, leading to widespread trials and executions, including burning women at the stake. The bull was heavily abused for political and personal gain. Wow. So this guy was burning witches at the stake. The first witch trial by the 1484. Did he get any witches? I think we got to look into that. When we look at all this witch trial stuff, everyone's always talking about, oh, all the innocent women that were killed, which is bad.

[David]

Sure.

[Mark Agnor]

Any witches?

[David]

Any witches?

[Mark Agnor]

If you get one witch, it might be worth it. Yeah, right. How do we know if there are any witches that were killed? And everyone's like, oh, I've never seen a witch. Yeah, because they were all killed. Fucking idiot. Like. Like. It seems like no one is critical thinking anymore to understand how witchcraft and dark arts even work in our world. I mean, look, killing innocent women, I feel like, is probably bad.

[David]

Probably.

[Mark Agnor]

I think that it's going to put you near the top of the list. Let's see what else he did. Maybe he redeems himself. Innocent VIII practiced rampant nepotism, advancing his illegitimate children within the church and Italian society again. Seen it, been there. That's just what Italians do.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnor]

To address financial problems inherited from previous popes, Innocent VIII created unnecessary church offices and sold to the highest bidders. This is called simony. How do you not. It's like you're not even listening. I wasn't you. We always do this. Like I tell. It's like I just want. Why does no one ever ask, oh, how is Mark doing? Innocent VIII permitted trade with Barbary merchants involving foodstuffs exchanged for slaves who are then converted to Christianity. All right, that's a wash. He personally received a hundred Moorish slaves from King Ferdinand of Aragon, distributing them among favored cardinals. Ouch. Not good. You can't do slavery. But while we're on the topic, can you look up what amore looks like? Because that's going to really change how much we joke about this. And. Oh, can't do that. Where were the Moors living? Where. Where are these Moors from?

[David]

I thought they were from, like, North African. And then they went to the Iberian Peninsula.

[Mark Agnor]

That's what I thought. I thought they were looking like Maghrebi. I thought they'd be like, Tunisian Mosalis. I thought it was going to be a couple Zinedine Zidanes, a couple Mosulas. They're North African. Iberian Peninsula. Wow, you crush that.

[David]

Let me see if I'm on YouTube.

[Mark Agnor]

You right?

[David]

Not your dumbest friends anymore.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, evidently. Wow. Okay, so look, you can't have slaves. That's going to be one of my rules. And again, I don't like to get political on the show, but slavery, I don't like it. Get. Pisses me off. So, yeah, this guy. Then innocent banned the eight of innocent. The eighth banned Giovani Pico D. Mirandola. His 900 thesis. One of the first printed books to be censored by the Catholic Church. 900 thesis. Wow. That's crazy. Martin Luther didn't even invent his own idea. Fucking dumbass. 13, right? What a dipshit. He's like, oh, how do I stir up trouble? Look, all right, maybe that's a point. Thirteen propositions were deemed heretical, and reading it was punishable by excommunication. Wow. I mean, look, I'm gonna say this guy might be the worst. Oh, God, he killed women.

[David]

You haven't slapped a here and there for Italians. That's like par for the course.

[Mark Agnor]

He bought a bunch of slaves. Moorish slaves. Okay, Moorish.

[David]

Moorish bad.

[Mark Agnor]

Not full Moors.

[David]

Moorish.

[Mark Agnor]

Moorish, though. And distributed them amongst the cardinals. You can't do that.

[David]

He's number one.

[Mark Agnor]

I think there's an argument to be made.

[David]

Some guy unburied a dead body, put him on trial.

[Mark Agnor]

That's more wacky. If we were doing a wacky list of all the popes. Yeah, he'd be chart topping. Yeah, but it's the most evil. And exhuming one body, dropping them up.

[David]

Was it chattel slavery or, like, cool slavery?

[Mark Agnor]

Wait, what's the difference?

[David]

You tell me.

[Mark Agnor]

Who knows? Technically, I doubt that it was of the chattel delineation, but it's still slavery nonetheless, and that I find deplorable. Now, somehow we've miscounted because there's still another pope to be read.

[David]

It's the under Pope Francis comes out.

[Mark Agnor]

Oh, we're gonna have an SS tier. Let's just see about Pope Julius II from 1443 to 1513. He was born in an impoverished family to a Grecian woman, he was educated by a Franciscan friar, then sent to study at Perugian University. His uncle became Pope Sixtus iv. You ever heard of him? Giuliano became Bishop of Carpentras in October 1471. Two months later, he would be elevated to cardinal. And he enjoyed the position of Archbishop of Avignon and at least H8 bishoprics after serving as a papal legate. Legate, I don't know. These words are dumb as hell. Giuliano as its Archbishop of Avignon, and that would maintain his position until he became pope. He was nicknamed the warrior. Pope Julius II engaged in incessant wars against Venice and France. He personally led military campaigns, expanding the Papal States through force. Julius II prioritized secular power, territorial expansion over spiritual matters, contributing to discontentment that eventually led to the Protestant Reformation. Julius II granted indulgences in exchange for money to fund the building of St. Peter's Basilica, a practice that later sparked Martin Luther's protests. Julius II formed and broke alliances with several European powers, often at the expense of stability. In Italy, known for his violent temper, losing self control, and behaving rudely. I don't know how he died, but this guy just seems like he was an. But it doesn't seem like the most evil. He didn't murder any women. Potential witches. Alleged. Alleged witches, yeah. I'm gonna put this guy somewhere in the middle. I don't know. Do we have any numbers left?

[David]

He just died of illness.

[Mark Agnor]

All right, so how bad could he really have been? Yeah, I mean, he did cause the Protestant Reformation.

[David]

There's been three fucking popes that have started the Protestant Reformation. Which one is it?

[Mark Agnor]

Look, it's not just gonna be one guy. Okay? Let the record show. And this guy looks like he was the Pope prior right before Martin Luther did the 95 Theses. He died in 1513, so right before Leo X. So I don't know. I think you could probably point to a couple different factors, but this guy had the longest papacy prior to the Protestant Reformation, so I think he gets some of the blame.

[David]

All right, so looking at it as a whole, they all sold indulgences, they all had nepotism a lot.

[Mark Agnor]

Almost all of them had nepotism. Some of them sold indulgences, and only.

[David]

A few fucked their daughter. Only one. Really? So we have to like, if they're all doing the same thing, but only one of them's fucking their daughter.

[Mark Agnor]

Super hot, but her hotness has nothing to do.

[David]

Her heart has everything to do with it.

[Mark Agnor]

Okay. I don't know if that's legal.

[David]

You had an illegitimate daughter.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah, a piece. Okay.

[David]

Baddie.

[Mark Agnor]

Illegitimate just means you're not.

[David]

I thought it wasn't yours if it was illegitimate.

[Mark Agnor]

I mean, that's how I think it should be pronounced. But that's not the necessary. That's not actually what it is.

[David]

I don't know. I think. I think the nepotism kind of lost its sting after, like, the fifth one that we read about. Did it.

[Mark Agnor]

I agree. So there's probably way more that did. Nepotism, whatever.

[David]

Yeah.

[Mark Agnor]

I think murdering women and having slaves, that's got to put you at number one. I think rounding up an entire ethnic group and putting them together and giving them awesome swag. Yeah. That's going to put you at number two. Whoa.

[David]

No, I mean, you just give him swag.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah.

[David]

The other guy fucking cut off three fingers and dressed him as a layman. He de. Dripped him.

[Mark Agnor]

That is true. But also is one guy that was already dead.

[David]

A thousand Jews with cool hats.

[Mark Agnor]

I'm saying if you shoot me while I'm alive or you shoot me while I'm dead, I'd much rather you do the second one.

[David]

Okay.

[Mark Agnor]

Am I crazy?

[David]

No, you're not crazy.

[Mark Agnor]

If you're gonna drag me through the city, cut off my fingers, I'd rather you do it when you're dead. Yeah.

[David]

Okay.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. I think we got a good list here. I think we got a good list. Pope John iv. Yeah, that guy's not good. Pope Innocent. Yeah, I think we nailed it with that one. I think that one's. I think.

[David]

Who's not. Who's 10 Gabe in this one?

[Mark Agnor]

Forgot the post, man. It was the first one we did.

[David]

Yeah, perfect.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah.

[David]

The guy who was just gambling and.

[Mark Agnor]

Yeah. Hail Satan. I mean, what. Yeah, right? This guy's just like a lead singer. The guy's sick as hell. Yeah. All right, well, that has been another wonderful episode of Camp.

[David]

Close it out stronger. Come on. Where's the energy?

[Mark Agnor]

We're going to land this thing nice and slowly. Appreciate you guys for listening and tuning into another episode of Camp. Appreciate everyone that has tuned in to these episodes. Thanks for everyone that's gone to the merch store, picked up some, you know, barrels or maybe a mug or maybe even a shirt or a cap. And all the people that have come to see me on the road, that means the world. You have made all of my dreams come true. And with your contributions to tickets, I'm able to give my kid just a chance at not, you know, being a poor Pope. David. Anything else? Anything you'd like to contribute?

[David]

I think I already said my piece about Gabe.

[Mark Agnor]

Anything you want to say about the popes? All good. Praise God. Peace be with you. And I'll see you next time. If you've made it to the end of this episode, that's because you rock with us. And for that, we rock with you. You are sophisticated. You enjoy honest, true communication. A highbrowed type of person that understands this History is not just dates and names. It is a tapestry of human triumph and tragedy, from the day Nostradamus made his first prophecy to the morning Paul Revere took his midnight ride from ancient oracles to modern revolutionaries. That is why I need you. If you have not already, please sign up for Today in History. Our free newsletter, Today in History brings you the stories that matter, the moments that changed everything, and the secrets hidden in time. Join thousands of history enthusiasts who get their deep, daily journey through time. Don't let another day of history pass you by. Take the conversation to your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description Today in History because history's stories shape tomorrow's world. Thank you for watching the episode. We'll see you next time.