Vatican Pope Election Explained | Who Are The Candidates (2025)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Camp Gagnon – "Vatican Pope Election Explained | Who Are The Candidates (2025)"

Title: Vatican Pope Election Explained | Who Are The Candidates (2025)
Host: Mark Gagnon
Guests: Kristof
Release Date: May 7, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Camp Gagnon, host Mark Gagnon teams up with his friend Kristof to delve deep into the intricacies of the papal conclave, the historical process by which the Vatican elects a new Pope. Released on May 7, 2025, this episode promises an engaging exploration of the candidates vying for the papacy, the history and mechanics of the conclave, and insightful predictions about the election’s outcome.

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I. The Papal Conclave: An Overview

Mark kicks off the discussion by announcing the passing of Pope Francis, signaling the onset of the conclave—an event that occurs following the death of a Pope to elect his successor.

Mark Gagnon [00:00]: "The Pope is dead. That's right, people. And now it's time for the Conclave."

Kristof complements Mark’s introduction by highlighting his own Catholic upbringing, adding credibility to their conversation.

---

II. History of the Papal Conclave

The duo traces the origins and evolution of the conclave:

• Early Selection Methods: From 33 AD to around 1059, the selection of popes was often chaotic and unstructured, resembling a "Wild West" scenario.

• Institutional Reforms:

  • 1059: Pope Nicholas II restricted the election rights to the College of Cardinals.
  • 1179: The Third Lateran Council introduced a two-thirds majority system.
  • 1274: Pope Gregory X formalized the modern conclave process, instituting seclusion and secret ballots.

Kristof [07:00]: "They should do it like the Dating Game, where there's, like, you can't see the Popes behind a little curtain."

Mark adds humor while explaining the serious historical transformations that have shaped the conclave into its current form.

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III. Mechanics of the Modern Conclave

Mark and Kristof break down the step-by-step process of the conclave:

1. Confirmation of Vacancy: The Camerlengo officially declares the papal vacancy.

2. Gathering of Cardinal Electors: Cardinals under the age of 80 convene in Rome. This year sees 135 eligible electors, the highest in history.

3. Location: The conclave is held in the Sistine Chapel, ensuring maximum secrecy and tradition.

4. Voting Process:

   • Rounds of Voting: Multiple voting rounds occur over several days, each consisting of four ballots (two in the morning, two in the afternoon).
   • Secrecy: Cardinals write their choices secretly and submit them, akin to "Tribal Council" in reality TV shows.
   • Smoke Signals: Ballots are burned after each round. Black smoke indicates no decision, while white smoke announces the election of a new Pope.

Mark Gagnon [12:06]: "Which is, I'm doing wingdings. Dude."

The humorous analogy to Survivor’s tribal council underscores the tension and strategy inherent in the voting process.

---

IV. Analysis of 2025 Papal Candidates

Mark and Kristof introduce and scrutinize the main candidates, assessing their backgrounds, beliefs, and chances of election.

A. Cardinal Pietro Parolin

• Background: Italian, 70 years old, served on Pope Francis’s Vatican team for 11 years, with a career in the diplomatic wing of the Holy See.
• Reputation: Seen as a moderate reformer blending progressive reforms with adherence to Catholic orthodoxy.
• Key Quotes:

  Kristof [32:55]: "How do we feel about Petro Pepperoni? Are you practicing Catholic?"
  Mark [59:54]: "And Louis Antonio Tagle or Taggle? 22.2%."

Parolin is positioned as the frontrunner with a 28.6% chance of becoming Pope, benefitting from his extensive experience and moderate stance.

B. Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle

• Background: Filipino, 67 years old, known as the "Asian Pope Francis."
• Reputation: Leading progressive voice advocating for a more welcoming and merciful church, especially towards LGBTQ+ individuals and divorced Catholics.
• Key Quotes:

  Mark [50:44]: "And he's more concerned about the church's past use of harsh words."

Tagle holds a 22.2% likelihood, representing the more liberal faction within the Vatican seeking reforms.

C. Cardinal Robert Sarah

• Background: From Guinea, born in 1945, senior Vatican roles, made cardinal by Pope Benedict in 2010.
• Reputation: Strong defender of traditional Catholic doctrine and liturgical practices, advocate for the Latin Mass.
• Key Quotes:

  Mark [56:16]: "That's my boy. He also called for a return to greater reverence and sacredness in worship."

Sarah is viewed as a conservative heavyweight with an 11.6% chance, appealing to traditionalist segments of the Church.

D. Cardinal Peter Erdo

• Background: Hungarian, 71 years old, former medical doctor, made cardinal by Pope John Paul II in 2003.
• Reputation: Leading conservative figure opposing divorce, remarriage, and advocating for traditional Catholic values.
• Key Quotes:

  Mark [36:47]: "He strongly opposed proposals to allow divorce and civilly remarried Catholics to receive communion without annulment."

Erdo, with an 8.3% chance, represents the staunch conservative branch prioritizing doctrinal purity over reform.

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V. Predictions and Conclusion

Mark and Kristof discuss the probable outcomes of the conclave, factoring in the large number of cardinals appointed by Pope Francis, suggesting a continuation of his reformist agenda. Despite the broad expectations, they acknowledge the unpredictability of papal elections, referencing historical precedents where unexpected candidates emerged victorious.

Mark [60:29]: "And the betting markets place Cardinal Perelin as the favorite."

They conclude by inviting listeners to share their predictions and engage with the podcast community, emphasizing the excitement and anticipation surrounding the imminent election.

Kristof [61:55]: "Like, they can't. They. There's. I mean, if you think divorce and same sex marriage lead to moral crisis."

The episode wraps up with a blend of humor and anticipation, highlighting the complexities and human elements intertwined in the sacred conclave process.

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Notable Quotes:

1. Mark Gagnon [00:00]: "The Pope is dead. That's right, people. And now it's time for the Conclave."
2. Mark Gagnon [12:06]: "Which is, I'm doing wingdings. Dude."
3. Mark Gagnon [32:55]: "And Louis Antonio Tagle or Taggle? 22.2%."
4. Mark Gagnon [56:16]: "That's my boy. He also called for a return to greater reverence and sacredness in worship."
5. Mark Gagnon [60:29]: "And the betting markets place Cardinal Perelin as the favorite."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Camp Gagnon offers a comprehensive and entertaining examination of the 2025 papal conclave, blending historical context with contemporary analysis of the leading candidates. Mark Gagnon and Kristof provide listeners with a rich understanding of the election process, the personalities involved, and the potential directions the Catholic Church may take under its new leadership.

For those interested in the intersection of religion, politics, and tradition, this episode serves as an invaluable resource, capturing the essence of one of the most significant events in the Catholic Church with humor and insightful commentary.

Transcript

[Mark Gagnon]

The Pope is dead. That's right, people. And now it's time for the Conclave. This is the process that the Vatican and the appointed cardinals go through in order to find the new Pope. This is going to be happening on May 7, coming up any day now. And right now, I'm on the road. I'm currently in Atlanta. I'm not in my beautiful tent. So today is going to be a little bit different. We're doing a discussion. So I've invited my good friend Kristof, who's a very, very funny, brilliant comedian that I started comedy with in Orlando. And he's gonna be with me. We're gonna be having a discussion again. You were raised Catholic.

[Kristof]

Yeah, I was.

[Mark Gagnon]

So he's extremely well qualified for this conversation. This is gonna be perfect. And so today we're gonna be going through the history of the Conclave, where it came from, why it's done in the very strange, ritualistic and secretive order that it is, where all the different cardinals are from, the prospect of popes. We're gonna go through their backgrounds, their political histories, what they believe, who the liberal ones are, who the conservative ones are, who likes who, and who is the most likely person to actually get elected as Pope. And finally, we're going to go through everything you need to know, A to Z. What does it take to actually become the Pope? All the politics at play, all the secret backstabbing, all. Everything that you need to know will be discussed and more. So without further ado, sit back, relax, and welcome to religion camp. At New Balance, we believe if you run, you're a runner, however you choose to do it. Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way.

[Kristof]

Coming Be a winner.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that's what running's all about.

[Kristof]

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[Mark Gagnon]

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to camp. We're not in our traditional setup in the tent. Instead, we're in an immaculate Tanzanian palace here in. Here in Atlanta, Georgia, I'm joined by my good friend Kristoff. How are you?

[Kristof]

Yeah, thank you. I brought this shirt from home. This is my favorite shirt. It's my personal shirt.

[Mark Gagnon]

Is that. Is that exclusive? That's Hermes.

[Kristof]

Yeah, it's Hermes.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, that's actually a custom shirt that was made by our good friend Baby Diva. But what was your. What was your name? Exclusive Baby.

[Kristof]

Exclusive Baby Diva. I was wearing my good Monster Truck shirt, but they said that didn't fit the aesthetic.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, by they, you mean Hyman wearing a sleeveless.

[Kristof]

Sleeveless New York Racket Club shirt.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

So cool.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's like, dude, your. Your. Your Monster Truck shirt's not going to cut it.

[Kristof]

Yeah, dude, we're talking about the Pope. You can't wear a Monster Truck shirt.

[Mark Gagnon]

Of course. And then, of course, thank you to. To Gabe and Thomas for making the cams work, and Samir for welcoming us into his beautiful home.

[Kristof]

Thank you very much.

[Mark Gagnon]

The Pope is dead. Breaking news. I don't know if this is how you wanted to find out, but he is.

[Kristof]

I would suck if they just found out.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Dude.

[Kristof]

What?

[Mark Gagnon]

Papa Francisco. He's been put on a T shirt, man. So pour one out for. For the Argentinian legend. He's gone. You know what happens when the Pope dies?

[Kristof]

Conclave.

[Mark Gagnon]

They wait three days to see if he emerges from.

[Kristof]

No, they don't.

[Mark Gagnon]

They see if he looks at his shadow, and if he does, then it's gonna be winter.

[Kristof]

He died the day after Easter.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's true.

[Kristof]

So Jesus came back, and then he was like, all right, that's good enough for me. Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Be like, yeah, we good?

[Kristof]

Peace.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. I did my job. But Pope Francis is dead. My mom is. I asked you.

[Kristof]

Devastated.

[Mark Gagnon]

I asked my mom. I said, is she devastated? Do you know what kind of Catholic my mom is?

[Kristof]

I asked my more conservative one, who's not a big fan of the moderate papacy of Pope Francis.

[Mark Gagnon]

Pope Francis, Like, I think dogs can go to heaven. And my mom was like, this guy's a heretic.

[Kristof]

Did he say I think dogs can go to heaven.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like a little girl, like, as Pope France, like Mr. Francis. My, my, my. I'm five years old and my little doggy died. Is he gonna go to heaven? And then he was like, maybe.

[Kristof]

Yeah. Well, that's the.

[Mark Gagnon]

My mom was like, this guy has no spine. Is. He's spineless. He's just lying.

[Kristof]

Tell a child that is that their dog definitely is not going to heaven.

[Mark Gagnon]

So I asked my mom. I was like, do you think Pope Francis in heaven?

[Kristof]

And she said, no.

[Mark Gagnon]

She said, that's for God.

[Kristof]

Yeah, of course. That's the same answer to did dogs go to heaven?

[Mark Gagnon]

But I was like. I was like, it's a high chance that he's. Then he's the Pope.

[Kristof]

It's a pretty good. If there is one.

[Mark Gagnon]

She goes, I can't say that. Who knows. Who knows where he is? All I know is that JD Vance.

[Kristof]

Killed him and he sneezed on him.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Which, like I was saying, I don't think it's hard to kill the Pope. Like, it seems like the easiest thing to. Right.

[Kristof]

Yeah. What's the assassination attempt just, like, trip him?

[Mark Gagnon]

An air horn. Just an air horn at any moment just turns into dust. My mom was like. My mom, literally, she was like, I don't know, man. The Pope died after he was calling for, like, a ceasefire, after he met with J.D. vance. Like, you think it was an inside thing?

[Kristof]

I was like, no, they got him massage.

[Mark Gagnon]

I was like, mom, he's 150 years old.

[Kristof]

Like, Mossad got the.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think he just, like, swallowed a grape or something.

[Kristof]

Yeah, exactly. I don't think it's rice. Went down the wrong tube.

[Mark Gagnon]

But look, now they got to make a new Pope.

[Kristof]

They got to make one.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. They do have to make a.

[Kristof]

Forge it in the fires of Mount Doom.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's what the smoke is. No. Now it's time for conclave. All right? And the Conclave. This is the process of electing a Pope. So today, I'm going to go through the entire process of how they elect the Pope, the history of the Conclave, and who some of the contestants are in this year's Bachelor. The Pope number one, down to the stage. They should do it as a game show.

[Kristof]

They should do it like the Dating Game, where there's, like. You can't see the Popes, and they're, like, behind a little.

[Mark Gagnon]

You see the little slippers?

[Kristof]

You can just see their little slippers.

[Mark Gagnon]

Their hats sticking out.

[Kristof]

Their hats just stick out over the curtain.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think that'd be Sick as hell.

[Kristof]

Be cute as hell.

[Mark Gagnon]

But the way that these. The conclaves have been working, it's actually a fairly, fairly recent thing for the first thousand years of the Church's history, from basically like zero, from the time that Christ died, like 33, all the way up to like 1,000.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

It was kind of like the Wild West. They were like, they were picking popes, all sorts of wild ways. And this is like bishops were then chosen. They would pick another person. Just like the Pope that died would elect someone. Da, da, da. But then in 1059, Pope Nicholas II restricted the right to elect the Pope to the College of Cardinals, the Vatican City.

[Kristof]

Cardinals, go. Vatican City.

[Mark Gagnon]

Cardinals go. Cardinals, Dude. And this was a group composed of cardinal bishops, priests and deacons. And then it was refined again in 1179 when the Third Lateran Council made a 2 3rd majority system. And now the modern conclave, where the cardinals are locked in seclusion until a decision is reached, was introduced in 1274.

[Kristof]

Wow.

[Mark Gagnon]

By Pope Greg.

[Kristof]

That's early for democracy.

[Mark Gagnon]

1274, they said. I mean, the Romans had some type of democracy way back.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I mean, still for Pope democracy, it's pretty good. And they've been doing it the Same way since 1274. Lockdown. Pope Greg. The Pope Greg. The X. Pope Greg. Yeah, dude. And this was Pope Greg. Yeah. My name is Greg. I'm the Pope. It's not a pope name at all, but they've done some additional reforms to like, ensure secrecy and prevent influence and streamline the voting process and all that stuff. Did you see Conclave?

[Kristof]

I did see Conclave.

[Mark Gagnon]

Apparently they do an extremely accurate job.

[Kristof]

It's a wonderful film.

[Mark Gagnon]

The internal. The internal organs.

[Kristof]

The internal organs. Both.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes, exactly.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So one of the big reforms that happened, Pope Greg, in 1621, this is a different.

[Kristof]

I love Pope Greg.

[Mark Gagnon]

He formalized the requirement for a secret ballot and then reaffirmed the two thirds, shaping the procedure that is largely followed today. So the rules have been codified and updated, but the core secrecy is the exact same. So now with like, phones and stuff, it's like, hey, no phones.

[Kristof]

Yeah, no phones, nothing.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

It's weird to see a cardinal texting. It's like smoking a cigarette.

[Mark Gagnon]

Snapchat.

[Kristof]

He's tweeting. He's like, conclave is.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this year, catering sucks.

[Kristof]

Vatican right now, food was made at Conclave.

[Mark Gagnon]

So here's what happens. The second the Pope dies, the process begins.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Confirmation of the vacancy by the camerlengo.

[Kristof]

It's gonna be a lot of Latin today. This is gonna be tough.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Strap in.

[Kristof]

Camera. Lango went to Catholic school. I did go to Catholic school, so.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, you're well equipped.

[Kristof]

I speak fluent Latin.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kristof]

Until I was 9 years old.

[Mark Gagnon]

Laddin Pig Latin. And this, this, this camera lingo breaks the Pope's fisherman's ring and seal to signify the end of the reign. A few weeks later, cardinal electors, those under 80 years old, they do have an age limit.

[Kristof]

The young guys.

[Mark Gagnon]

It is crazy that the Vatican has.

[Kristof]

Has an age cap and the presidency.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Our president is older. Older than the Pope.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. They're like, if you want to run America and control nukes, any age, but if you want. If you want to deal kids.

[Kristof]

Well, they. Yeah, I guess. That's interesting. When did they impose the 80 year old limit, do you know?

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, probably in like 2004.

[Kristof]

Yeah. Because I'm like, I don't think she was 14. Yeah. It can't be.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

They were all dying of, like, typhoid, whatever the hell. They drink bad water.

[Mark Gagnon]

So those under 80, they gather in Rome.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So they get the young bucks out there. And in 2025, there was 135 eligible cardinal electors.

[Kristof]

Wow.

[Mark Gagnon]

The largest number in history.

[Kristof]

Wow.

[Mark Gagnon]

The conclave takes place at the Sistine Chapel, one of the most beautiful chapels. You've been there?

[Kristof]

No, we should go. Let's go.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'll take you.

[Kristof]

Let's go.

[Mark Gagnon]

And we'll go to Hermes after. Here.

[Kristof]

We're going to Hermes. I'll get some cool stuff for my horse and then we'll hit the Sistine Chapel.

[Mark Gagnon]

This is an inside joke that I need to tell the people about. What do you need to know about Kristoff? Is he's a class act. He's just a country bumpkin.

[Kristof]

I'm not a country bump. You guys are all you. You have a bajillion square foot mansion.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then I. Christos is a Christos.

[Kristof]

Put the sunglasses on.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm Christos. Exactly. No, Kristoff is just a field mouse. You know, he's just a field mouse.

[Kristof]

He's just like.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like a home.

[Kristof]

Feels like a euphemism.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wait for.

[Kristof]

Never mind.

[Mark Gagnon]

Kristoff is just a sweet guy with a heart of gold.

[Kristof]

Yeah, dude, I'm my dad at H vac, all right?

[Mark Gagnon]

He never did none of this old fancy stuff.

[Kristof]

I didn't know this newfangled book learning and all this.

[Mark Gagnon]

So I said like, oh, this shirt looks like Hermes or something.

[Kristof]

I was literally wearing my good.

[Mark Gagnon]

And Kristoff goes What is Hermes?

[Kristof]

I didn't say that. Anyway, you said Hermes. It's not like I read it.

[Mark Gagnon]

So the conclave takes place at the Sistine Chapel, where all outside contact is cut off. Yeah, they put all their phones in yonder bags. Look. It's time to elect the Pope. And the proceedings begin with a Mass and then the singing of one of my favorite songs, come, Holy Spirit. After which the command extra ominous is given. And only the cardinals remain.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Conclave boating is conducted by a secret ballot.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So first day, there might be one round of voting on subsequent way on subsequent days, four votes are held. Two in the morning, two in the afternoon. Each cardinal writes the name of the chosen candidate on a ballot. Disguises his handwriting.

[Kristof]

Fascinating.

[Mark Gagnon]

Which is. I'm doing wingdings. Dude.

[Kristof]

Yeah. How are you disguising your handwriting?

[Mark Gagnon]

You got to hit it lefty.

[Kristof]

Got to hit it lefty, right? Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Or like, just like. I don't know, try to write like, how your friend writes or just like.

[Kristof]

Grip it weird or something. Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

This just feels like the tribal council of Survivor.

[Kristof]

Yes, it does, doesn't it?

[Mark Gagnon]

It's like you just write it down, look into the camera, just be like, francis, you try to sell me out. You mother.

[Kristof]

Who's the big guy? Who do they think's gonna win? Yeah, I'm skipping ahead.

[Mark Gagnon]

We're skipping ahead.

[Kristof]

Okay, Sorry.

[Mark Gagnon]

So you gotta write. Write it down.

[Kristof]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

Write it down on a piece of paper.

[Kristof]

Okay. I'll disguise my handwriting.

[Mark Gagnon]

Disguise handwriting.

[Kristof]

Disguise my handwriting.

[Mark Gagnon]

Your handwritten has a tiny mustache on.

[Kristof]

Yeah. Like perfectly disguised, wearing a little hat.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then it's submitted in the ceremony. Will earn.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Francis with, like a little hat on.

[Kristof]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, big nose. Like. Yeah, dude. I think Francis was pretty cool. You put your own name.

[Kristof]

You can put your own name.

[Mark Gagnon]

You should be able to.

[Kristof]

You definitely can vote for yourself, right? For the papacy. Of course.

[Mark Gagnon]

And that's the guy you don't want.

[Kristof]

Yeah, well, that's the whole plot of Conclave.

[Mark Gagnon]

I need to watch this movie.

[Kristof]

You got to watch the Clave, dude. It's good.

[Mark Gagnon]

Then they have something called the scrutinizers.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Or the scrutineers.

[Kristof]

Scrutineers.

[Mark Gagnon]

The three scrutineers.

[Kristof]

My landlord's a scrutiny.

[Mark Gagnon]

That feels racial. That feels.

[Kristof]

That feels like my accountant, my landlord.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wait a second.

[Kristof]

Bunch of scrutineers over here. They found a bunch of scrutineers in the tunnels.

[Mark Gagnon]

The three scrutineers, dude. They count the votes.

[Kristof]

One. It's a family show.

[Mark Gagnon]

Two, three, four.

[Kristof]

For me, one for me, one for you. One for me, one for you.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then the ballots are burned after each round. Black smoke signals no decision. White smoke announces a new Pope, a Victorian. The process continues until a candidate receives 2/3 majority. If a deadlock persists after several days, the rules allow for pauses for prayer and eventually a runoff between the two top candidates. It's a runoff when they do a speech or some shit. Yeah, I'm putting Mountain Dew in every water fountain like a little kid.

[Kristof]

Push up contest break dancing.

[Mark Gagnon]

They do a runoff between the top two candidates who themselves are not permitted to vote that round.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So the top two candidates are just sitting there and they're both just like, dude, I hope it's you, man.

[Kristof]

Like, yeah, they're trying to be humble.

[Mark Gagnon]

Whatever happens. Like, I just like, like, look at us. Like, how crazy.

[Kristof]

Inshallah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Alrighty. Don't skip forward, guys, because I am on the road. World's fastest ad read coming at you. I'm gonna be Atlanta, Stroudsburg, Hoboken, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Raleigh, Poughkeepsie, Portland, Oregon, Fort Worth, Texas, Austin, Texas, Stanford, Philly, Levittown, Chandler, Arizona, San Diego. I'm also going to be adding Toronto, Montreal, as well as Washington D.C. and a bunch of other dates. You can get all that@the markagnon.com dates are in the description. Also in probably the comments of this episode. Go see me on the road. Come hang out. I'll be hanging out with everyone after the show. Come shake my hand, call me an idiot, whatever you want to do, I will be there. Additionally, I will be doing my one hour of standup comedy. I'm very proud of this hour. I'm really excited to share with you guys and it would mean the world if everyone could come on out. And what do you wear to a show on the road? That's a great question. You can go to campgoods co. That's right. We got merch. We got camp merch. We got hats, hoodies, T shirts. A lot of stuff is out of stock. Things have been selling like hotcakes. But we're going to be restocking everything in all the sizes. So you can go there right now, get all the merch, get all the coolest clothing in the podcast game. We're going to be updating that site regularly. And if you come out to a show, I'd love to see you sporting some of the threads that we got up online. I'll see you guys there. Let's get back to the show. What's up Guys, we're going to take a quick break because I have great news. Religion camp has merchant. That's right. We have amazing T shirts like this one you see here. And this one we got hats. All sorts of very interesting designs, not only for Christianity, the one I was raised in, but for all religions. Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism. I actually don't know if we have a Mormonism shirt, but maybe we, we can, we can work on that if we got any, you know, Latter Day Saints trying to cop. Anyway, you can catch it all here at this link. We'll also have it in the description as well as the comments. Get that right now and peace be with you. So, pro baller Lonzo ball for buzzballs ready to go.

[Kristof]

Cocktails.

[Mark Gagnon]

Take 12.

[Kristof]

Buzzballs just dropped their biggest blue balls. Script says biggies blue balls.

[Mark Gagnon]

Lonzo. Take 13.

[Kristof]

Blue balls just dropped their biggest buzz balls.

[Mark Gagnon]

Uh, let's try a vocal exercise.

[Kristof]

Buzz balls. Biggies, blue balls. Buzz balls.

[Mark Gagnon]

Biggies, blue balls.

[Kristof]

Big balls. Just drop. Get blue balls this season with buzz balls, please.

[Mark Gagnon]

You're responsibly.

[Kristof]

Buzz balls available in spirit, wine and malt. 15% alco. See Carrollton, Texas. Hey there, travelers. Kaley Cuoco here. Sorry to interrupt your music. Great artist, BT dubs, but wouldn't you rather be there to hear it live? With Priceline, you can get out of your dreams and into your dream concert. They've got millions of travel deals to get you to that festival, gig, rave, sound bath or sonic experience you've been dreaming of. Download the Priceline app today and you can save up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% off flights. So don't just dream about that trip. Book it with Priceline. Go to your happy price.

[Mark Gagnon]

Priceline. Once a candidate is elected the Dean of College of Cardinals. The Dean of the College of Cardinals.

[Kristof]

The Dean of the College of Cardinals.

[Mark Gagnon]

Asks if he accepts the office. If he does, he chooses a papal name and is dressed in papal vestments. The senior cardinal deacon then says, habamus papam. Do you know what that means?

[Kristof]

Happy Pope.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's correct. It means we have a Pope.

[Kristof]

Yeah, that was close.

[Mark Gagnon]

From the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica, the new Pope gives his first blessing to the world.

[Kristof]

Wow.

[Mark Gagnon]

Just DJ set. Yeah, he just gets turntables. Just wants for shout out to his family. Pope Francis dies. Shout out to his family.

[Kristof]

Shout out to his family.

[Mark Gagnon]

So how do you become a candidate?

[Kristof]

How do you become a candidate? Is this a quiz?

[Mark Gagnon]

Great question, Kristoff. So any baptized male can become any Baptized Catholic can become the Pope.

[Kristof]

You, me, I'm putting my name in now. Maybe it's a little late, but I would like to be the Pope. I'm a baptized Catholic.

[Mark Gagnon]

What would be your first rule as Pope?

[Kristof]

Have fun. Number one rule of being the Pope is have fun?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Number two, Teamwork.

[Mark Gagnon]

Do you see T Dog?

[Kristof]

Number three, still not big on the gay stuff.

[Mark Gagnon]

Do you gay stuff? Just at your house, just do gay.

[Kristof]

Stuff, but just like wear a cloak so God can't see it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Just be cool about it. Did you see what T Dog posted?

[Kristof]

Oh, his papal. His papal AI dude. Yeah, Totally not at all sacrilegious.

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't even think he's baptized Catholic.

[Kristof]

I don't think he's anything.

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, I mean, I'm sure he like grew up. We went to like.

[Kristof]

I don't even. Not.

[Mark Gagnon]

You don't think he went to one church when he was a kid, maybe, Dude.

[Kristof]

I mean, his dad was wheeling and dealing. He was raised by like Jamaican nannies.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's no way he's Rastafari.

[Kristof]

He's Rastafari, actually. I love the Rastafari. We're burning down the herb. Thank you, Mrs. Chloe.

[Mark Gagnon]

Big up.

[Kristof]

To the big island.

[Mark Gagnon]

Big up. Best herb. Okay. So any baptized male can be Pope.

[Kristof]

Nice.

[Mark Gagnon]

But elected popes are typically only cardinals.

[Kristof]

Yeah. So the daisy cardinal, like the highest thing next to a Pope says second to Pope.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think there's like substrat of cardinals where you have like cardinal elect, three.

[Kristof]

Cardinal you can prestige.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kristof]

Like Call of Duty to the next cardinal level.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly. Superior cardinal.

[Kristof]

It's fire.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like lieutenant.

[Kristof]

Unlock the scar.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Lieutenant car.

[Kristof]

Like in Modern Warfare 2.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly. They have like badges on them.

[Kristof]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So fire.

[Mark Gagnon]

So the days leading up to the conclave, there's all this speculation, like, who's it going to be, what's it going to, what's going to happen?

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And they. These are typically cardinals with significant experience in Vatican administration, pastoral leadership and diplomatic service.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Cardinals weigh many factors when choosing a pope. You can think of what the factors would be. Theological outlook.

[Kristof]

Yeah. Best at covering up certain stories.

[Mark Gagnon]

Who's the best at moving priests around? You know, like, do you have a connection? An airline.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Administrative skill. Geographic representation.

[Kristof]

What is that? Like you've been to the most places. Don't really even know geographic representation.

[Mark Gagnon]

I have genuinely a white guy for them. Oh, Italian.

[Kristof]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

We Italian.

[Kristof]

Yeah. We need a dying. Yeah, we need a time. Back in the boat, we got these Argentinian pups What's going on?

[Mark Gagnon]

Sebastian?

[Kristof]

Yeah. Have you seen these people? Have you seen these popes?

[Mark Gagnon]

Imagine the Pope getting dressed in the morning.

[Kristof]

He's putting on his head. That's a huge.

[Mark Gagnon]

Putting on your fifth blanket or something.

[Kristof]

It's hot.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then you gotta pee.

[Kristof]

Yeah, that would do. They have a little flap like a. Like. Like a onesie.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think they have like a chambermaid.

[Kristof]

They have a chamber pot.

[Mark Gagnon]

They have a helper.

[Kristof]

I think they're all have catheters in.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, they must.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Which underrated catheter. Never tried it, but it seems lit as hell.

[Kristof]

I've had a catheter before and Fun. No, it hurts really bad.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, really?

[Kristof]

Yeah, like. Well, I was under anesthesia when I got it put in, but when I got it taken out, I was wide awake.

[Mark Gagnon]

Damn.

[Kristof]

Horrible.

[Mark Gagnon]

Who's anesthesia? So the process then is super spiritual and shrouded in all the secrecy with the aim of discerning the best leader. So there's all these. The phases. You have the pre scrutiny, like we were talking about. You have the whole college of all these cardinals. Da, da, da. Then you have the scrutiny where they write all the names, they put all the names in the thing and they burn it. And then the post scrutiny where they take all the candidates, they burn them up, let the smoke rip.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Which I'm curious how they make the smoke white or white or black.

[Kristof]

It's some chemical. It's like they put phosphorus in there. Whatever. They burned a different. Be so stressful or something or whatever.

[Mark Gagnon]

So stressful.

[Kristof]

But, you know, it's. Yeah. I was so dumb when I was a kid that there was a conclave. I think for Francis. No. Is for. You know, who's the one that was there for like two seconds? Benedict.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. I think it was BDIX.

[Kristof]

B. Dix the 16th. I think it was BDIX the 16th.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

I remember going, oh, it's when like God decides. Like. I thought they put everyone's name into a fireplace and then the color of the smoke would be God communicating if he wanted them to be the Pope or not.

[Mark Gagnon]

What kind of Hogwarts.

[Kristof]

I don't. It was literally on some Hogwarts.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's hilarious.

[Kristof]

So I was like, oh, like it came out black. And God doesn't like it when it's black.

[Mark Gagnon]

So he just picks the color.

[Kristof]

Yeah, so God just picks the color. And they put in Benedict's thing. And then you're like, oh, it was white for Benedict. So we got him.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, dang.

[Kristof]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, that's not how they do it. Yeah, Benedict was pretty fast. He was 2005 to 2013.

[Kristof]

Yeah. He was gone. Like, I, I, I. Well, he was the Nazi, wasn't he? Oh, there was a guy who was like, a Nazi? Well, he was, like, in Hitler Youth for sure. That was like, a big deal.

[Mark Gagnon]

Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth.

[Kristof]

Ratzinger.

[Mark Gagnon]

But according to his personal quote, he said he really hated it the whole time, and it was really weird. So I guess he's good. I guess he's fine.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Dude. My mom used to be. This is one of her funniest conspiracy vibes she was ever on. Lady Yaga dropped that song. Paparazzi, huh? And she was like, do you not understand? This is a metaphor. I was like, for what? And she was like, papa rotc, Papa Rat singer.

[Kristof]

She's talking about the way.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Why would she ever talk about the Pope?

[Mark Gagnon]

Because it's all connected in a grand conspiracy.

[Kristof]

It's about being obsessed with a man. I'll follow you until you love me. Papa. Paparazzi.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly.

[Kristof]

Papa. Papa.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then that's. I don't know. My. Look, this is. I was homeschooled.

[Kristof]

That's a real stretch.

[Mark Gagnon]

I was homeschooled.

[Kristof]

It's amazing, you know as many things as you do.

[Mark Gagnon]

The fact that I'm not just under a bridge somewhere.

[Kristof]

Yeah, well. Or that you just don't say. The most unhinged.

[Mark Gagnon]

We got some candidates, by the way.

[Kristof]

Okay, hit me.

[Mark Gagnon]

We got Cardinal Pietro Parolin from Italia.

[Kristof]

Don't like it.

[Mark Gagnon]

70 years old.

[Kristof]

Okay. Young.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's a young guy.

[Kristof]

He's a young buck.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, yeah. He's, you know, green. He's got gang, actually.

[Kristof]

Green?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Turning green.

[Kristof]

He's like, got silver skin or whatever.

[Mark Gagnon]

He served on Pope Francis Vatican team for 11 years and became a favorite amongst the bookmakers.

[Kristof]

The bookmakers. Is that similar to the scrutineers?

[Mark Gagnon]

Look, have your bookmakers talk to Myers.

[Kristof]

My people will talk to your people.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, we'll get it all squared away. And he spent his career in the diplomatic wing of the Holy See. Wow. I like when they call it that. The Holy See? Yeah. S E A S E E. You never heard that?

[Kristof]

No, it's the Holy See.

[Mark Gagnon]

The Holy See is just like my assumption. The. I've always just heard it to be, like, the governing body of, like, the Catholic Church.

[Kristof]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

It is just.

[Kristof]

It's like the administrative wing.

[Mark Gagnon]

The administrative operation.

[Kristof]

The day to day.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And what's his Name?

[Kristof]

PP Pastroni. What is it? What is it?

[Mark Gagnon]

Pietro Perolin.

[Kristof]

Pietro Peroli. Sounds like gasoline. Petrol.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Petrol Pepperoni.

[Mark Gagnon]

Pietro. Yeah. Petrol.

[Kristof]

Petrol, Pepperoni.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he made his career in. In Nigeria and Mexico. I guess that's what they mean by geographical representation.

[Kristof]

Right. And he's an Italian, though.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's Italian.

[Kristof]

There's a lot of. I guess there's a lot of Nigerian Catholics. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't know why or who.

[Kristof]

Well, I can guess why, but, like.

[Mark Gagnon]

Who went down there was the French.

[Kristof]

Genesee Pas.

[Mark Gagnon]

I like that. He was made a cardinal in 2014 by Papa Francisco.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he's widely regarded as a moderate reformer whose personal beliefs blend support for progressive reforms with firm adherence to Catholic orthodoxy.

[Kristof]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

On some core doctrinal issues.

[Kristof]

This is so funny when you're like, he's a reformed Pope. It's like he's going to move it a nanometer left. It's like, we're going to allow gay people in the state of Italy.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Wow. He's a reformist.

[Mark Gagnon]

This guy's a freaking lip dude.

[Kristof]

This guy so lib cucked out.

[Mark Gagnon]

Right. It's crazy. He was a key architect and a backer of Pope Francis reforms, describing them as irreversible and rooted in the action of the Holy Spirit.

[Kristof]

Amen, brother.

[Mark Gagnon]

He supports decentralization in synodality.

[Kristof]

Sign up. What's sign Audality?

[Mark Gagnon]

Basically advocating for greater authority and flexibility for local bishops to like, perform sign odds.

[Kristof]

It's so funny. I mean, who could ever care?

[Mark Gagnon]

It's just like this is the biggest issue in the world.

[Kristof]

Yeah. It's like signed reality. And it's like, it's. This is affected like six Catholics once.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes.

[Kristof]

It's like four Catholics in Argentina are concerned.

[Mark Gagnon]

But don't worry, he's also. He's also hardcore on the big issues.

[Kristof]

On the big gay.

[Mark Gagnon]

He publicly opposed same sex marriage.

[Kristof]

Oh, that's bad news for you.

[Mark Gagnon]

21. Come on, we'll edit that. In 2015, he. He called the Irish referendum legalizing same sex marriage. He says, quote, I guess he's a little bit softer on it, but he says, quote, this is a defeat for humanity.

[Kristof]

He said. He said. He's quoted saying, mamma m. What did the gays are doing in Ireland? Why did they suck each other penis? Mama mia, I hated the gays. You're like, okay, petrol pepperoni, relax.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, just imagine seeing two dudes kiss. Be like, this is a crushing defeat for you, man. But that's the job. That's the Pope. That's like, you know, the big OG's main role.

[Kristof]

It's his main job.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like that's really what it feels like.

[Kristof]

It just feels like bashing the.

[Mark Gagnon]

If you're poke this guy, be like, yo, stop being gay. Don't kill.

[Kristof]

For real though. Stop being gay.

[Mark Gagnon]

Stop doing a God.

[Kristof]

Yeah, I don't with that gay yo.

[Mark Gagnon]

Dead ass being hetero. Like, like banging chicks is like that's.

[Kristof]

A bucket like on the dead homies. For real. I do not with that gay sign. Petrol pepperoni.

[Mark Gagnon]

So he's. Yeah, he's been, he's been, you know, pretty, pretty hard line on that one. And expressed reservations about blessing same sex couples. They said, hey, will you bless the same sex couple? And he said, no, I have some reservations.

[Kristof]

Fair enough, right? I have reservations on any, almost any couple. I go, hey, you like my new girlfriend? I go, I have some reservations.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, we're gonna. Can I just think on it?

[Kristof]

Can I just think on it? I'm gonna pray. I will pray on this.

[Mark Gagnon]

And if there's white smoke, I approve. He upholds traditional teachings on euthanasia and the sanctity of life, but he's open to discussing clerical celibacy.

[Kristof]

What, so he's like down for popes to get pussy.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's like, look, no gay shit don't kill people. Yeah, but one thing the church could.

[Kristof]

Do better is getting some dumb.

[Mark Gagnon]

That seems like the most self centered choice ever. Is like, I think the.

[Kristof]

I'm open to it.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm open to discussing like me getting head all the time and then also like sick new car.

[Kristof]

There's no one in the Catholic church that like above like priest is pretty low. Like a brother is a brother below a priest.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think a brother would just be what priests would call each other.

[Kristof]

What about like a Franciscan priest?

[Mark Gagnon]

Like a friar.

[Kristof]

Like a friar.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think friars are also priests.

[Kristof]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

But they exist with like a different distinction.

[Kristof]

They're in like a fraternity and there's ping pong, beer pong and like that.

[Mark Gagnon]

They make beer. That's like their main thing.

[Kristof]

Yeah, they do make beer. Yeah, I had this old, old Belgian beer that's like an original monk thing.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Called something trape. Unbelievably good. You got to try it.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'll try it.

[Kristof]

Tastes like bananas. Tastes like roasted bananas. And it's like 12% ABV. Oh, really? It gets you fucked.

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't, I mean, I don't know how I feel about like a banana beer.

[Kristof]

Well, imagine like a roasty cereal banana. Like malty cereal Banana. It's really fucking.

[Mark Gagnon]

You're just adding more words.

[Kristof]

This guy doesn't understand. It's a Belgian quadruple.

[Mark Gagnon]

Okay.

[Kristof]

It's called Belgian quadruple.

[Mark Gagnon]

Google Hermes and we'll talk.

[Kristof]

Yeah, well, I've had a 16 bottle of beer, so. You're poor.

[Mark Gagnon]

But. Yeah, a. A friar is someone. Is a. Is a member of a religious order.

[Kristof]

Okay. So I'm just curious if they could get puss. That's really all I wanted to know.

[Mark Gagnon]

The answer, I think, is gonna be no across the board.

[Kristof]

Yeah. Because we had brothers at our. We had. We didn't have any brothers, but we had some brothers, like, visiting, like, they would kind of like visit our school. Did you have. You didn't go to Catholic school now.

[Mark Gagnon]

At a Presbyterian school?

[Kristof]

Wow.

[Mark Gagnon]

I love you, God. Like, that's Presbyterian school. Yes. Yeah.

[Kristof]

Like, yeah, praise him.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly.

[Kristof]

Just a guy with a guitar. Who, Everybody.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

No, it was like, they would have like, different ones come in. We had one called Brother Dennis, who I really liked. Brother Dennis was the man.

[Mark Gagnon]

He was chill as hell.

[Kristof]

He was. Dude, he would give us Mountain Dew. He would just show up with Mountain Dew.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's sick.

[Kristof]

Yeah, it was awesome.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I think deacons can. Can get topped off.

[Kristof]

Deacons could get dome.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Because deacons take like a religious vocation, but they're not ordained priests.

[Kristof]

Okay. So that's the highest you can be and still get dome.

[Mark Gagnon]

I think so. But like, that's also kind of like a part time gig. Like you.

[Kristof]

Yeah, yeah, I remember deacons would just come in for church.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly.

[Kristof]

They weren't like at the church exactly. They had like homes and lives, kids.

[Mark Gagnon]

And top just getting sucked.

[Kristof]

They got crazy sucked.

[Mark Gagnon]

But Peron's diplomatic approach is pragmatic and wants a dialogue. He's. He's seen in his role in the Vatican's agreements with countries like China and his advocacy for multilateral solutions to global issues such as migration. What he's working on migration.

[Kristof]

What is he talking about migration for?

[Mark Gagnon]

I have no idea. I mean, the Vatican is its own country.

[Kristof]

It's weird to read the Bible and go like, God, I love this, and then be like, I gotta figure out immigration. Huh?

[Mark Gagnon]

So that's basically his gig. He's kind of like a centrist moderate. He supports some reform, greater openness, but remains cautious. Jaime, thumbs up or thumbs down for petro Pepperoni.

[Kristof]

How do we feel about Petro Pepperoni? Are you practicing Catholic?

[Mark Gagnon]

He's a. He's a die hard Catholic.

[Kristof]

You big Catholic.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's also yeah. Chicano son.

[Kristof]

Amen, brother.

[Mark Gagnon]

What's up, people? Quick announcement. If you are a fan of Camp Gagnon or religion camp, I have great news because we are dropping History Camp. That's right. This is the channel. We're going to be exploring the most interesting, fascinating, controversial topics from all time throughout all history. Right. You probably know about Benjamin Franklin, I don't know, Thomas Jefferson, Nikola Tesla, interesting figures from history. And you probably learned about them school and they were pretty boring. But not here. No. As you know, I was raised by a conspiracy theorist. So I'm going to be diving deep into all of the interesting, strange, occult and secretive societal relationships that all of these famous, influential men from our shared past have. So if you're interested, please go ahead and subscribe to the YouTube channel. It will be pinned in the description as well as the comments. And if you're on Spotify, this doesn't really apply to you, but these episodes will be dropping as well. Just go ahead and give us a high rating because it really helps the show. Here is a bullet. Imagine this. You're 30ft underground, digging through frozen earth with spoons and mess hall plates. Nazi guards patrol overhead. One wrong move, one loose pebble and it's over. But on this night in 1944, 76 Allied prisoners would attempt the impossible, tunneling their way to freedom in the largest prisoner of war escape of World War II. And centuries earlier, in a cold stone chamber, a teenage girl in armor stood before her accusers. Her crime leading armies, speaking to angels, and daring to challenge the most powerful men in Europe. Joan of Arc's trial would become one of history's most infamous moments. These are just two stories from Today in History, the newsletter that brings you the most fascinating events from the past delivered fresh to your inbox. From epic wars to religious rebellions, ancient mysteries to modern marvels, don't miss another piece of history. Scan the QR code now or click the link in the description to sign up for Today in History.

[Kristof]

This episode is brought to you by Greenlight. Get this. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us.

[Mark Gagnon]

Parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives.

[Kristof]

But are we investing in their future financial success?

[Mark Gagnon]

With Greenlight, you can teach your kids.

[Kristof]

Financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treat, start prioritizing their financial education and future today with a risk free trial at greenlight.com Spotify greenlight.com Spotify Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.

[Mark Gagnon]

So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you.

[Kristof]

To Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 doll required Intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail] all right.

[Mark Gagnon]

Now we have Cardinal Wilm El Ed from the Netherlands.

[Kristof]

How do you spell that?

[Mark Gagnon]

E I, J, K. Crazy Dutchman. Yeah, the Dutch have goofy name.

[Kristof]

Sounds like it's in reverse.

[Mark Gagnon]

Wim itch from the Netherlands. And this dude, he's a 71 Billy itchy. All right, so this guy from the Netherlands, if you had a guess, what do you think his whole vibe is?

[Kristof]

Oh, he's got to be like a lib cuck.

[Mark Gagnon]

71 year old former medical doctor, widely seen as one of the Most conservative. Whoa. 2015. He helped pen the 11 cardinals speak on marriage and family, which staunchly opposed Francis's endorsement of civil remarriages in the case of not receiving annulment at the first marriage.

[Kristof]

Say that again.

[Mark Gagnon]

So basically, if you get married in the Catholic church.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

You're bound by God. Two flesh become.

[Kristof]

So he opposed annulment.

[Mark Gagnon]

Inseparable. Francis had an endorsement of civil remarriages in the case of not receiving an annulment. So you can't be remarried in the.

[Kristof]

Church, but you can go get married by the state.

[Mark Gagnon]

And Francis was like, yeah, it's fine.

[Kristof]

Yeah, I think. Well, yeah, the. The divorce one's crazy.

[Mark Gagnon]

What do you mean?

[Kristof]

Just like having an outlaw on divorce.

[Mark Gagnon]

You just have to get an annulment.

[Kristof]

Is that the only deal? I thought you couldn't get divorced.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, if you get an annulment. But an enrollment is kind of a funny thing. It's a loophole sort of. What is it an annulment says? Not that, oh, this marriage is over. It says that the marriage never was.

[Kristof]

Oh, Jesus Christ.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly. He's part of that.

[Kristof]

And I mean, what a ridiculous.

[Mark Gagnon]

So let's say you and I were to get married and they go, so what, man? Exactly.

[Kristof]

Like God's gonna go. I forget.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, God was like, hey, good news, you can split up because you were never married. You guys were just having sex out.

[Kristof]

Just pretending.

[Mark Gagnon]

Premarital sex.

[Kristof]

You were just sitting.

[Mark Gagnon]

You guys were having premarital sex and premarital kids.

[Kristof]

This makes no sense.

[Mark Gagnon]

So it works. Once two things are bound by God, they can't be separated.

[Kristof]

Yeah, well, clearly they can. Like, they could.

[Mark Gagnon]

Until you look in the records, you're like, oh, this was never bound. What a convenient loop. We hate each other. And turns out God didn't even think this was a marriage.

[Kristof]

Yeah. I mean, come on.

[Mark Gagnon]

We're good.

[Kristof]

Come on.

[Mark Gagnon]

So, like, let's say, for example, you have to be open to life when you're having a Catholic marriage. You have to say, you meet with your priest, and they say, are you both willing to have kids?

[Kristof]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

You say, yes, we're both willing to have kids, and you get married.

[Kristof]

What do you said? No.

[Mark Gagnon]

Then they say, we can't marry you in the church.

[Kristof]

Oh, interesting.

[Mark Gagnon]

So then you get married, and then you go to your wife, you say, hey, babe, now it's time for me to hit it raw. Yeah, I need you spread eagle on the bed, stat. And if she says, no, I don't want to have kids, then you say, wait a second. That's not what you said to the priest. And then you go back to the priest, you say, hey, she doesn't want to have kids now. And he goes, oh, great news.

[Kristof]

She's married.

[Mark Gagnon]

She's a liar because she's a liar. You never got married.

[Kristof]

This is bizarre.

[Mark Gagnon]

Welcome to the show. So this guy makes an endorsement saying, hey, Papa Francisco, you were out of line. You were just. You were overstepping when you were saying that they can get remarried in the state.

[Kristof]

Yeah. Without an element.

[Mark Gagnon]

What's wrong with you?

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

He wrote that they are, quote, a form of structured and institutionalized adultery.

[Kristof]

Wow.

[Mark Gagnon]

He was made a cardinal by Pope B. Dix in 2012, and he's a staunch defender of the church's teaching on marriage and that it is a lifelong, indissoluble union between a man and a woman. He strongly opposed proposals to allow divorce and civil and civilly remarried Catholics to receive communion without annulment. So, okay, you divorce your wife, you can't get communion.

[Kristof]

Jesus.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's exactly what communion is. Did you make crushing it?

[Kristof]

Yeah. Thanks, dude.

[Mark Gagnon]

You've been, like, so on it.

[Kristof]

Yeah, sorry. I've been saying the Lord's name in vain. Is that the Lord's name in vain?

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, is it in vain?

[Kristof]

What is it? What does that mean?

[Mark Gagnon]

It's more of, like, an intention issue, right?

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So is it.

[Kristof]

No.

[Mark Gagnon]

There you go. See, now you're not. Now you're thinking like a Catholic. Yeah. See what's going on? Tricky. Exactly. So he wrote a book in 2012.

[Kristof]

Great.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's a. He's an author. He's on a book.

[Kristof]

Amazing.

[Mark Gagnon]

And the book is called the Bond of Love.

[Kristof]

Oh. Doesn't it sound nice when you say you can never leave her?

[Mark Gagnon]

71 year old man that's never been with a woman.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's the thing that I think some of these guys don't realize is that being married sometimes sucks.

[Kristof]

Yeah, of course.

[Mark Gagnon]

And sometimes be crazy.

[Kristof]

Yeah. They wiling.

[Mark Gagnon]

You know, I mean, like women are.

[Kristof]

They're wiling.

[Mark Gagnon]

Being married to some chicks is. It's a tough game.

[Kristof]

Yeah. Shit's ass.

[Mark Gagnon]

And this guy doesn't realize that.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's over here being like, man, I wish I could get married.

[Kristof]

No, he isn't.

[Mark Gagnon]

Probably.

[Kristof]

Maybe sometimes he's like, dude, if I.

[Mark Gagnon]

Could just be married right now, how sick would that be?

[Kristof]

Yeah. He thinks it's the best.

[Mark Gagnon]

And so he's like, so you should be married forever. Never even think about splitting. Little does he know if I had.

[Kristof]

A girlfriend, I'd freaking treat her so I'd never freaking love or hate when.

[Mark Gagnon]

People break up with their girlfriends. That's what the whole book is basically. The Bond of Love. And he basically reiterates that marriage's purpose is both reproductive unitive or unitive. And he insists that reproduction remains essential to the marital act. Legit. And this guy's been criticizing Pope Francis for the longest.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's just been a professional hater.

[Kristof]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

He wakes up every morning, there's a hate on the Pope.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Kind of sex.

[Kristof]

You a bro.

[Mark Gagnon]

The for real. He's just been calling for Francis. He's been criticizing him for. For not taking a firmer stance against the German bishop's proposal to allow some Protestants to receive the Eucharist. That one we can agree. That's insane. Right?

[Kristof]

Like at Catholic Mass. Receive the Eucharist.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes. And some Germans.

[Kristof]

Why are they going to Catholic mass?

[Mark Gagnon]

Right.

[Kristof]

You're a Protestant. Go to. Go to.

[Mark Gagnon]

Maybe they're going to a wedding. Maybe their friend's getting married.

[Kristof]

Oh.

[Mark Gagnon]

So they go to the Mass.

[Kristof]

I think you should sit that out.

[Mark Gagnon]

That seems like. That's like.

[Kristof]

It seems like logical.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm taking his side.

[Kristof]

But also the Eucharist could not. It doesn't matter to me. So, like I could maybe if you're a very devout Protestant who really thinks it's important to take the Eucharist at someone's wedding, which I Can't.

[Mark Gagnon]

Which they don't believe that because it's symbolic to them.

[Kristof]

Yeah, it is symbolic to them. To some. Is it small? To all sects of. There's so many.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm pretty sure. Only Catholics and Eastern Orthodox.

[Kristof]

Right.

[Mark Gagnon]

Believe that. The Eucharist, actually.

[Kristof]

But they're not Protestants, really.

[Mark Gagnon]

Not at all.

[Kristof]

The Eastern Orthodox or the.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, they're basically Catholic.

[Kristof]

Yeah. They just, like, have a different kind of government. Right.

[Mark Gagnon]

They got bigger beards.

[Kristof]

Yeah, they have bigger beards. They're kind of cool. I like the Eastern Orthodox.

[Mark Gagnon]

Their whole vibe. The branding wise.

[Kristof]

Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Serbs. Yeah. So different.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

I don't remember how it happened, but.

[Mark Gagnon]

They broke off in like 12.

[Kristof]

Yeah, in 12.

[Mark Gagnon]

They broke off year 12.

[Kristof]

Fuck. 12.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. But he. He was basically like, yo, you should have gone harder on this. And he said that the Pope's response was completely incomprehensible and then.

[Kristof]

Incomprehensible.

[Mark Gagnon]

He says incomprehensible.

[Kristof]

These guys are too into being Catholic. I'm gonna say it.

[Mark Gagnon]

He insists that this is what my mom wanted me to do.

[Kristof]

You think if you got dome one time, you go, what was I doing? As soon as he busted the craziest.

[Mark Gagnon]

Post not clarity ever, where the fuck.

[Kristof]

He's wearing this crazy outfit. He's like, what the fuck? What happened? The last 71 years of my life. This is crazy. He's just got his shit slurped one time. Can you get your shit slurped before marriage?

[Mark Gagnon]

No.

[Kristof]

Can you get your shit slurped ever?

[Mark Gagnon]

No.

[Kristof]

Or is it sodomy?

[Mark Gagnon]

I forget. I actually looked this up. Or maybe I talked to someone about. I can't remember. But, like, if you're a married Catholic.

[Kristof]

You can get your shit served.

[Mark Gagnon]

You can get. You can get topped, but you can't.

[Kristof]

Nut you can.

[Mark Gagnon]

What?

[Kristof]

What is this life? You can get your shit slurped, but not nut.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

What's the point of anything ever? What is the point of any of this shit, man? Because you can have ice cream. You can't swallow it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, that's my diet right now, actually. That's exactly the. That's the diet I'm on.

[Kristof]

Do you put ice cream in your mouth? You spit it out? Just chew a chocolate bar like a.

[Mark Gagnon]

High man on the door.

[Kristof]

Dome and no nut. Wild. Yeah. Dome and no nut.

[Mark Gagnon]

That is the Catholic way.

[Kristof]

If I was, that would be my first rules Pope. You can get slurped up. Everyone can get slurped up.

[Mark Gagnon]

To complete.

[Kristof]

To complete before marriage.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, that's pretty chill.

[Kristof]

And you can raw dog before marriage and let one loose. And condoms are cool.

[Mark Gagnon]

But don't even think about touching the Eucharist if you're not.

[Kristof]

If you're not a Protestant. If you're a Protestant, don't.

[Mark Gagnon]

If you're a pr.

[Kristof]

I have. Everyone has a line.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

If you're crazy.

[Mark Gagnon]

If you're a prod, you better back the.

[Kristof]

Yeah. I mean, do you really think it transforms? Do you think it transfigurates?

[Mark Gagnon]

I think the substance, the. The spiritual essence.

[Kristof]

This is such a Catholic answer. It's such a non answer.

[Mark Gagnon]

What does it.

[Kristof]

Does it turn into the body of Christ or not? Yes, literally. You think the cells.

[Mark Gagnon]

No. Okay, so no spirit.

[Kristof]

No.

[Mark Gagnon]

The spirit of the Eucharist becomes the body.

[Kristof]

That's the difference between that and, of course, metaphor.

[Mark Gagnon]

What is the spirit of your body?

[Kristof]

Dude, the spirit. Yeah, it's having swag. Wearing authentic Tanzanian garb.

[Mark Gagnon]

How would you describe Kristoff's spirit? Swag, dude. Very swag. Very Central African. Like, like pretty. Like very African. Very.

[Kristof]

It's a lot about getting and swagging money.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Smoking weed, dunking a basketball.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's what I'm saying. So imagine your spirit got taken away and got changed out. With someone else's spirit. You would still be you, but your spirit would be different. When a doll gets possessed, when Annabelle becomes possessed.

[Kristof]

Yeah, I know, I know. This is. This is.

[Mark Gagnon]

It doesn't. I guess it implies isn't a demon, but the spirit of Annabelle is a demon. I'm just telling you what, Cat. But isn't that.

[Kristof]

This isn't spirit like the. I. You know, it's spirit is literal. So, like, you mean like a ghost? Like a. Like a phantom? Like a ghoul?

[Mark Gagnon]

Like Casper?

[Kristof]

Yeah, like Casper.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes, but there are no ghosts.

[Kristof]

I know there aren't ghosts, but I know that from logic, reason. But. But. So you're telling me that the Eucharist, that a guy goes. And then. Because he goes that. Because he does that. Daylight that, lightning that, whatever. But I'm really Reddit atheisting this, but I get it. But still you think the spirit of Jesus Christ wasn't in the cracker before and now because he went, that it's literally the soul of Jesus Christ and then you eat it?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes.

[Kristof]

All right.

[Mark Gagnon]

Any other questions? Are you converted?

[Kristof]

You believe that in your heart?

[Mark Gagnon]

I fully believe that.

[Kristof]

Do you actually.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, I grew up Catholic. As my. As a Catholic, that's my job, to believe that.

[Kristof]

No, no, no, no. Do you mark the rational human being With a brain and a brain stem and a spine.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, yeah. Like, you kind of. You kind of have to.

[Kristof]

Like, you don't have to. I don't. I'm fine.

[Mark Gagnon]

You don't go to church. You're not Catholic, so it's easy for you not to believe it.

[Kristof]

But I was raised Catholic.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, but you're not a Catholic.

[Kristof]

That's true. So, of course, scientifically Catholic.

[Mark Gagnon]

Do I have. Do I have evidence of this? Can I support this scientifically? No. Do I choose to believe it because of my faith? Yes.

[Kristof]

Wild.

[Mark Gagnon]

Do I have any evidence to back it up? It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough to back that up if I'm in a court of law. And they're like, whose body is this? And I'm like, that's Jesus body. And they go, oh, well, actually, we dissected it under my.

[Kristof]

It's actually a cracker.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's actually Ritz.

[Kristof]

I would update the cracker.

[Mark Gagnon]

Oh, you mean, like someone.

[Kristof]

I mean, the cracker stinks.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, when. Nutella.

[Kristof]

No, like, maybe some, like, you know, like an enriched dough, like with eggs or butter. It is like water and. And flour.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, it tastes like. When was the last time you had the Eucharist? Tell me that.

[Kristof]

I might have been 15, 14.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. So you don't even have any say. You have no Eucharist.

[Kristof]

Tastes like poop. It, like, dissolves.

[Mark Gagnon]

Can I tell you about a different guy that's about to be Pope?

[Kristof]

I feel bad for saying the Eucharist is bad. Do you think people are gonna get mad at me?

[Mark Gagnon]

Yes, absolutely.

[Kristof]

It doesn't taste good. I don't think that's a heretical thing to say. Sorry.

[Mark Gagnon]

Cardinal Peter.

[Kristof]

Down here.

[Mark Gagnon]

I don't know why. Dwarf garden. He has a huge hat. It's so.

[Kristof]

They don't have any clothes. He still has to wear big clothes.

[Mark Gagnon]

Dude, it's so big.

[Kristof]

Just so down here. I'm sick of these gay guys. And if you're a Protestant, don't take the Eucharist. It's simple.

[Mark Gagnon]

They try to diddle him. He's like, I'm an adult.

[Kristof]

Get your hands off of me.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this guy Erdo, he was made a cardinal in 2003 by Pope John Paul II.

[Kristof]

Nice. JP2.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's Hungarian. Widely recognized as a leading conservative amongst the Catholic hierarchy.

[Kristof]

Okay. A lot of conservatives.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he's opposed to allowing divorce and remarriage. And he doesn't want them to get Communion. He cited the church doctrine as saying, hey, you can't dissolve it.

[Kristof]

It's in the books.

[Mark Gagnon]

In the books. He's a conservative on all the things such as same sex marriage, clerical celibacy, the role of the Church in political life. He said that the Church must not get involved with problems of the given moment.

[Kristof]

Facts.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's how I feel.

[Kristof]

That's good.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's.

[Kristof]

I like that.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's a bar.

[Kristof]

Well, because they kind of always were like, let's do our own thing. The whole point is that we do our own thing.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

I don't care about worldly. I'm not worried about immigration. It's like, well, how should we. The tariffs. Let's see what Cardinal, you know, petrol pepperoni feels about the tariffs. Yeah. That's not the point.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this guy, he has a good relationship with the Hungarian. Hungarian government. And yeah, he's, he's a. He's a. He's a Pope Francis hater. He called Pope Francis. He said he's freewheeling. Pope Francis.

[Kristof]

Is he calling that Bob Dylan?

[Mark Gagnon]

He said he was a freewheeler. That a lot of his stances, his political stances were freewheeling.

[Kristof]

He's just flying by the seat of his papal pants.

[Mark Gagnon]

Sounds. Sounds like a Trump nickname.

[Kristof]

Yeah. Freewheeling franchise. That's pretty good.

[Mark Gagnon]

And yeah, he's described as a friendly traditionalist.

[Kristof]

I don't. So far, I don't like any of them.

[Mark Gagnon]

Are you ready for the lib Pope?

[Kristof]

Yeah, I'm ready for the lib Pope.

[Mark Gagnon]

Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle.

[Kristof]

Mamma Mia.

[Mark Gagnon]

From the Philippines.

[Kristof]

Oh.

[Mark Gagnon]

67 years old. And he's known as the quote, not me saying this, this is someone else that said it. The Asian Pope Francis.

[Kristof]

Nice.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he's considered the left leaning political candidate.

[Kristof]

Okay.

[Mark Gagnon]

Of the Vatican. And he's been critical of the church's treatment of the LGBT people and divorced and remarried Catholics. Seems like those are like the biggest issues within the Vatican.

[Kristof]

It's just, it's divorced, are you gay.

[Mark Gagnon]

Stuff and are you divorced?

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

I feel like because they're celibate and like they're not married, they're just like, this is. I've chosen my life to do this and you can't even just be married.

[Kristof]

You can't even be married and you want a guy. First of all.

[Mark Gagnon]

2015 interview said the church's severe stance on gay people, divorcees and single mothers has done harm in its goal of evangelizing. Decent point. He's often described as a leading progressive voice within the Catholic Church, though he himself resists the labels, emphasizing the Importance of pastoral sensitivity and dialogue over ideological camps. He's widely recognized for his advocacy a more welcoming and merciful church, specifically towards the gays.

[Kristof]

Like, let them in.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Like, they can go if they want.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, Just like, be. Be like, just chill about it, you know?

[Kristof]

Yeah, but I mean, if you, like, you know, I want to peel it back a little, but, like, what do you really.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's. He's more concerned about the church's past use of harsh words. Yeah, that's a quote he said. He said harsh words for these groups. Arguing that such language led to their isolation does not reflect the church's mission of mercy and evangelization does.

[Kristof]

But Catholics don't evangelize a little bit. Really?

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, right now, you trying to get me. Yeah.

[Kristof]

You're doing a horrific job.

[Mark Gagnon]

What do you mean?

[Kristof]

This is the most I've learned about Catholicism in the last 10 years.

[Mark Gagnon]

This feels like the Book of Mormon. Like, I'm coming to you as Jesus. You are coming to me as Jesus. You're a God.

[Kristof]

And sister, tell me more about Jesus. Tell me about him. I want to learn.

[Mark Gagnon]

But, yeah, he's basically like. Like, for example, Pope Francis, even him being like, lib.

[Kristof]

Uhhuh.

[Mark Gagnon]

Do you remember he was just saying the F word? He dropped F, a G, but the Italian version.

[Kristof]

No, dude.

[Mark Gagnon]

So funny.

[Kristof]

He's calling him, like, a bunch of stads or whatever.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's like, yo, they got fooks.

[Kristof]

He's got a bunch of f. He's fugazi.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, no, the. The. The slur is. Apparently people get mad at him, and he just, like, is too old to understand the difference.

[Kristof]

But that's so funny.

[Mark Gagnon]

Frocia. Gina.

[Kristof]

Frociacine.

[Mark Gagnon]

Frociacine is an offensive slang term in Italian referring to gay men and gay male culture. And Pope Francis.

[Kristof]

Keep saying it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Just keep saying it.

[Kristof]

Yeah, it's probably just what he always called them.

[Mark Gagnon]

Like, he's like, we have to, you know, be nicer to the fragilcine. And everyone's like, stop, Genie.

[Kristof]

What? I like them. They are nice.

[Mark Gagnon]

So this guy Tagle or Tagl.

[Kristof]

Tagl.

[Mark Gagnon]

One contentious issue is communion for the divorce and remarried. He says that he's against the one size fits all rule and that he requires that every situation for those who are divorced and remarried is unique and that the church should address each case individually rather than issuing a blanket statement.

[Kristof]

It seems fair. Like, if you're like, let's say you did your thing, where you go, well, actually, she lied and didn't want kids or whatever. Seems like a reasonable. And then the guy can't have communion for the rest of his life. Is he. If he's a devout Catholic, he'd probably, like, jump off a bridge or something.

[Mark Gagnon]

No, then he would get an annulment.

[Kristof]

But then he could get it.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Oh, never mind.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, you got an almond and you're good, but maybe you're in a marriage that's legitimate, but then he's, like, beating the. Out of you.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And you're no longer with each other.

[Kristof]

And you're like, you can't get that. An old. You have to both be there.

[Mark Gagnon]

Technically, you might be able to get that at old, but I actually don't know the rules on that. But maybe in that case, he's like, yo, just let her get communion. Like, yeah, like, there's a battered woman one. He does not advocate for the. Or ordination of women or radical changes to priestly celibacy, but he supports further discernment and discussions on these topics.

[Kristof]

He's trying to get slurped up. All these guys are like, well, I could. Let's say I could get slurped up.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hypothetically, one way the church could be better. Suction. Yeah, he's like. He's like the most lived out one. And then we got another guy. This is Jaime's favorite, Cardinal, Robert Serra.

[Kristof]

Yeah, dude, Robert chairs. Come to town, he's gonna burn. That's your favorite.

[Mark Gagnon]

This guy is Robert Sarah. Robert Sarah. He's. He's. He's made quite a stir. Yeah, he's, like, been like. Like Twitter's been talking about him because everyone's like, he's like, pretty.

[Kristof]

Where's he from?

[Mark Gagnon]

He's from Guinea. He was born in guinea in 1945, and he's held several senior Vatican roles, and he was made a cardinal by Benedict in 2010. And his reputation is built on strong defense of traditional Catholic doctrine, liturgical practices. Yeah. He's a prominent advocate for the traditional liturgy, the Latin Mass.

[Kristof]

He likes Latin Mass.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's my boy. He also called for a return to greater reverence and sacredness in worship, seeing the liturgy as central to the faith.

[Kristof]

Wait, so why would you do a Mass where no one understands what you're saying?

[Mark Gagnon]

Well, typically, only the songs are in Latin, and then, like, some of the readings are in Latin, but then all the homily is in English.

[Kristof]

Oh.

[Mark Gagnon]

And so the idea is that it's going to preserve the. The. The word of God as much as.

[Kristof]

Latin in its original language.

[Mark Gagnon]

Dead language that never changes.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So, like, you don't have to change the words. You know what I mean? Like Pope Francis being like, Fraguchin.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

That used to mean something different. Different.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

So he's against gender ideology. He says that practices like divorce and same sex marriage lead to a moral crisis. He also said that he's been critical of Pope Francis reforms on liturgical matters, but nonetheless, he's been described as a man of prayer and integrity.

[Kristof]

These guys have. Must have thought the world was on fire their entire lives.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. I mean, just imagine.

[Kristof]

They can't. They. There's. I mean, if you think divorce and same sex marriage lead to moral crisis.

[Mark Gagnon]

And they would be like, look around.

[Kristof]

They'd be like, everything's horrible. It's because of divorce and same sex marriage.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. What about nukes? They're like, what are you talking about?

[Kristof]

The war in Ukraine.

[Mark Gagnon]

The divorce in Ukraine.

[Kristof]

The divorce in Ukraine.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

Well, Ukraine did get a divorce from Russia. And when the. During the fall of the Soviet Union.

[Mark Gagnon]

And they need to. They're actually married.

[Kristof]

Yeah, that's their sacrosanct.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly. He's been outspoken in defense of human rights under a Marxist dictatorship while he was in Guinea.

[Kristof]

Guinea.

[Mark Gagnon]

And it earned him a reputation for courage.

[Kristof]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And he's been described as doctrinal and a liturgical conservative. So it seems like all these guys are conservative.

[Kristof]

Yeah, they're all conservatives. It's not really even a real lib option. Except they're not going to put the Filipino lib up. There's no way. Yeah, he's like the Pete Buttigieg of the whole thing.

[Mark Gagnon]

I mean, Pete.

[Kristof]

Well, he's gay.

[Mark Gagnon]

Pete could be a pope.

[Kristof]

No, he couldn't.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's baptized Catholic.

[Kristof]

Yeah, but he's a freaking screaming queen. Get you. But he's a screaming lightning McQueen.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, yeah, that is a good point. But maybe.

[Kristof]

And he's married.

[Mark Gagnon]

He's married.

[Kristof]

Gay married.

[Mark Gagnon]

Which according to Catholics, isn't the thing. So.

[Kristof]

So he's actually not married at all.

[Mark Gagnon]

Be like, yo, you're not married.

[Kristof]

Wait, so is that the loop?

[Mark Gagnon]

That's a. That's the loop.

[Kristof]

That'd be an epic loop. You could be a gay married Pope.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then be like, actually, I married a. I'm not married at all.

[Kristof]

I'm not married at all.

[Mark Gagnon]

I was.

[Kristof]

I actually had no clue what you're talking.

[Mark Gagnon]

I was fooling around and I made some mistakes.

[Kristof]

Yeah. I goofed. You gotta watch Conclave, dude. Yeah, you'd love the clip. It's great.

[Mark Gagnon]

My mom said she loved it until the very end.

[Kristof]

Yeah, the end. You're not gonna like.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I mean, why? Why? I feel like it's like, yeah, it's a cool twist. It's a fictional tale. It's not like it's a documentary.

[Kristof]

They're like, no, it's not a documentary.

[Mark Gagnon]

It's just like a fictional, fun tale.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

And what makes it interesting is that the Pope's trans.

[Kristof]

We just spoiled the conclave.

[Mark Gagnon]

Hermaphroditic or whatever.

[Kristof]

Hermaphroditic.

[Mark Gagnon]

But I think that makes it interesting.

[Kristof]

He got his. Yeah, he got both. He got both. Him.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm trying to think if you had to put money on one of these. One of these here popes, it's not.

[Kristof]

Knowing that it'll be a conservative. It's not going to be. I think Peter Pepperoni is pretty good. And then I think it's not going to be Robert Sarah. Because of a particular reason.

[Mark Gagnon]

And what, you think Italians hold any.

[Kristof]

Type of people from Guinea? They have. There's a lot of anti guinea sentiment. Just the word Guinea, I think it'll be. It won't be the North Netherlands guy. I think it'll be. It was either the first one, Peter Pepperoni, or there was a different moderate conservative we talked about. It'll be a moderate conservative.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

A sort of Mitt Romney figure.

[Mark Gagnon]

So Pietro Perolin, he's at 28.6% chance of becoming Pope.

[Kristof]

He's got the plurality.

[Mark Gagnon]

Got a decent little chunk right there, dude.

[Kristof]

Yeah.

[Mark Gagnon]

Louis Antonio Tagle or taggle?

[Kristof]

Taggle.

[Mark Gagnon]

22.2%.

[Kristof]

The Filipino Lib.

[Mark Gagnon]

Filipino Libs at 22.2. Now. What about our boy Robert Sarah?

[Kristof]

I'm gonna say 11.6.

[Mark Gagnon]

11.1.

[Kristof]

God, I'm good. God damn, I'm good.

[Mark Gagnon]

You rip that, dude.

[Kristof]

Thank you very much.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then Peter Erdo, the Hungarian guy, he's at 8.3%. He's at 8.3%.

[Kristof]

Nice.

[Mark Gagnon]

So, yeah, given that approximately 80% of the Cardinals. Cardinals Were appointed by Pope Francis, there's an expectation that his successor will continue his reformist agenda.

[Kristof]

I didn't think about that. Yeah, I didn't think about 135 cardinals.

[Mark Gagnon]

80% were appointed by Pope Francis.

[Kristof]

Wow. Dude, he really did, like a. He did like a switcheroo.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah.

[Kristof]

He just appointed a bunch of people. Yeah, that's smart. He packed, like, the Supreme Court.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah. Literally packed the courts.

[Kristof]

Yeah, he packed the courts.

[Mark Gagnon]

But the betting markets place Cardinal Perelin as the favorite. The papal elections are inherently unpredictable, and the historical precedents have shown that, you know, unexpected candidates can win all the Time. Anyone can be Pope.

[Kristof]

Anyone. Anyone can be. It's like retitude.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly.

[Kristof]

Anyone can cook.

[Mark Gagnon]

Exactly.

[Kristof]

Can be pope.

[Mark Gagnon]

So, yeah, we're gonna see what happens. I think it's on. I think they're gonna vote on the 7th, and then we could have an answer by the 8th.

[Kristof]

Damn, dude. It's not that. It's in a couple days.

[Mark Gagnon]

I'm on the edge of my seat.

[Kristof]

I'm on the edge of my papal seat.

[Mark Gagnon]

I like that. Anyway, thank you guys so much for tuning to another episode of Religion Camp.

[Kristof]

Thanks a million.

[Mark Gagnon]

Please drop a comment below. I'd love to know who you think is going to be the Pope.

[Kristof]

Yeah, let's make this the most liked podcast in history.

[Mark Gagnon]

Let's.

[Kristof]

Let's make it number one in likes. Let's get to 42 million likes.

[Mark Gagnon]

That's a great idea, actually. I can't believe I never thought of that. Yeah, let's make this most like podcast.

[Kristof]

Most by volume, not by percentage. Like literally most number, highest number.

[Mark Gagnon]

And then most importantly, what did you guys think of Kristoff? You're gonna hate me, dude.

[Kristof]

Am I miles? Am I milesing?

[Mark Gagnon]

Everyone that comes on, they Am I miles maxing? Yeah, you're miles maxing big time.

[Kristof]

Oh, no.

[Mark Gagnon]

But we'll see. We'll see. Dude. Miles, when he was going off in the, you know, past life regression kids, he's like, these would have been a goofy white bitches.

[Kristof]

I would have been horrible on that episode.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, well, we'll see what the people think. Maybe they'll love you.

[Kristof]

I like this. You bring in like a skeptic.

[Mark Gagnon]

Yeah, exactly. That's what we do.

[Kristof]

It's not an echo chamber.

[Mark Gagnon]

Precisely. Anyway, see you all next time. Peace be with you. If you've made it to the end of this episode, you are clearly someone who understands that beneath every historical event lies a deeper truth waiting to be uncovered. You're the type of person who knows that real history is more fascinating than any fiction. And we deeply appreciate that about you. I'll be honest, that's exactly why I personally invite you to sign up for Today in History, our freedom free newsletter that goes beyond the surface of historical events. We dive into the stories that textbooks never told you, the secrets that challenge the course of nations, and the forgotten tales that deserve to be remembered. Let's continue this journey of discovery together. Take the conversation from your headphones into your inbox. Sign up now through the QR code or link in the description Today in History. Because every day holds a secret waiting to be revealed. Thank you for being part of our historical journey, and we'll see you next time.