Episode 4: As Big as it Gets

Summary

Camp Shame: Episode 4 – "As Big as it Gets"

Introduction

In Episode 4 of Camp Shame, titled "As Big as it Gets," host Kelsey Snelling delves deeper into the inner workings and escalating challenges of Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for children. This episode uncovers the transformation of Camp Shane from a revered institution promising miraculous weight loss results to a beleaguered organization grappling with financial mismanagement, ethical dilemmas, and a tarnished reputation.

Camp Shane’s Golden Era

The early 2000s marked the zenith of Camp Shane’s popularity. Promoted heavily through mainstream media, the camp was lauded as a transformative haven for overweight children seeking both physical and emotional change.

• Media Endorsements and Public Perception

  Renowned personalities like Tyra Banks, Oprah Winfrey, and Dr. Oz publicly endorsed Camp Shane, reinforcing the camp's image as a miracle solution for childhood obesity. Tyra Banks is heard exclaiming, “[00:44] Tyra Banks: People can't stop talking about it, saying she looks fat, the way you dress and stuff. I don't think you're aware that you're a heavyset woman. That's what I said.”

• Carl Evans: The Camp's Poster Child

  Carl Evans emerged as a shining example of Camp Shane's success. A former camper who lost significant weight, Carl not only transformed himself but also became a devoted counselor, embodying the camp's mission. He shares, “[08:22] Simon Greenwood: But as a kid, I sort of had this omnipresent sense of, like, my competency, intellectual competencies attached to it...”

Leadership and Culture

Under the stewardship of David Attenberg, Camp Shane not only expanded its enrollment but also its cultural footprint. However, behind the scenes, cracks began to appear as leadership dynamics shifted.

• Simon Greenwood’s Ascension

  In 2003, Simon Greenwood, a beloved counselor known for his charisma and dedication, was promoted to Camp Director. His leadership was instrumental in enhancing camp operations and maintaining high morale among staff and campers.

  “[23:56] Simon Greenwood: Simon was the glue of the camp. The campers understood Dave as the owner of the camp, but everyone from counselor to camper understood that Simon was the boss.”

• Carl Evans’ Commitment

  Carl became deeply invested in the camp's success, taking on roles that extended beyond his official duties. His dedication was pivotal in Camp Shane’s aggressive recruitment and promotional strategies.

  “[13:13] Simon Greenwood: After my first summers, I was a true convert. I restructured my whole life around a commitment to camp Shane so that any labor opportunities, college opportunities, any opportunity could not interfere with making sure I was back there in the summer.”

IRS Investigation and Its Impact

Despite Camp Shane's outward success, financial mismanagement lurked beneath the surface, culminating in an IRS investigation that threatened to dismantle the camp’s operations.

• Tax Evasion Charges

  In the summer of 2004, the IRS uncovered that David Attenberg had failed to report over $100,000 in income from renting out campgrounds to church and school groups during the off-season. This led to David pleading guilty to tax evasion, facing potential imprisonment.

  “[37:02] Yvette Dion: In the society that we live in, diet culture is connected inherently to companies that profit from telling us that things are wrong with our bodies.”

• Legal Consequences and Accreditation Loss

  Although David avoided prison, receiving four years of probation and community service, Camp Shane's reputation took a hit. The American Camp Association (ACA) revoked the camp’s accreditation, casting doubt on its adherence to safety and quality standards.

  “[42:42] Kelsey Snelling: The American Camp Association, or ACA, removed Camp Shayne's accreditation. This meant it no longer met the ACA's guidelines for safety, health program quality, and management practices.”

Expansion and Decline

Post-investigation, Camp Shane attempted to rebound by expanding its footprint with satellite camps across the country. However, this rapid expansion strained resources and diluted the camp's core values.

• Satellite Camp Model

  Starting in 2007, Camp Shane opened several satellite locations in states like California, Georgia, and Wisconsin. These camps operated on college campuses, differing significantly from the original Ferndale location's rustic setting.

  “[43:05] Simon Greenwood: Things would not be repaired for a very, very long time...”

• Operational Challenges

  The expansion led to logistical issues, including inadequate infrastructure and deteriorating facilities at the main camp. Staff shortages and declining morale further exacerbated operational inefficiencies.

  “[36:07] Meryl Winter: We were busting at the seams at that point. It was like 575 kids. We had over 300 staff. It was a lot.”

Staff Struggles and Ethical Issues

As financial resources dwindled, Camp Shane faced increasing internal conflicts and ethical breaches. Staff members like Carl Evans and Meryl Winter began questioning the camp’s direction and leadership.

• Budget Constraints and Declining Standards

  Simon Greenwood highlighted the challenges of maintaining camp standards amid budget cuts. Essential repairs and upgrades were neglected, leading to frustration among counselors.

  “[43:05] Simon Greenwood: Things would not be repaired for a very, very long time. And not because Simon wasn't capable or didn't have it on his docket to do. It was the stringency of the way the budget would be.”

• Ethical Dilemmas and Overextended Responsibilities

  Counselors found themselves overburdened with responsibilities beyond their training, especially when dealing with campers requiring specialized medical attention. Meryl Winter recounts, “[46:11] Kelsey Snelling: Counselors were also now working with a new demographic of camper who needed even more medical attention...”

• Internal Conflicts and Leadership Failures

  Disagreements between staff and David Attenberg intensified, particularly over financial decisions. Carl Evans narrates a pivotal moment of confrontation over unpaid wages, revealing the deepening mistrust and dissatisfaction within the camp's hierarchy.

  “[51:05] Simon Greenwood: I came to help the camp halfway through the summer...”

The Downfall of Camp Shane

By 2008, the cumulative effects of financial mismanagement, ethical lapses, and declining staff morale led to the unraveling of Camp Shane’s operations. The once-celebrated institution was now a shadow of its former self, struggling to maintain its mission amidst internal turmoil.

• Loss of Accreditation and Trust

  The revocation of ACA accreditation had long-term repercussions, eroding the trust of parents and the broader community. Without accreditation, Camp Shane’s legitimacy was severely undermined.

• Staff Exodus and Deteriorating Camp Culture

  Longtime staff members left in increasing numbers, leading to a loss of institutional knowledge and continuity. New staff, lacking the camp’s foundational ethos, failed to uphold the standards necessary for Camper well-being.

  “[45:13] Simon Greenwood: Some counselors who were multi-year counselors were given the same static pay. Well, that's bullshit. And people are gonna go somewhere, you know.”

• Carl Evans’ Disillusionment

  Carl, once a fervent advocate for Camp Shane, became disillusioned as he witnessed the camp's decline. His final summer in 2009 was marked by frustration and disappointment, culminating in a poignant realization of the camp’s downfall.

  “[50:00] Simon Greenwood: I had a really sad moment happen where I kind of knew it wasn't going to come back...”

Conclusion

Episode 4 of Camp Shame paints a comprehensive and unsettling picture of Camp Shane's rise and fall. Through firsthand accounts and expert insights, Kelsey Snelling exposes the intricate web of factors that led to the erosion of a camp once hailed as a beacon of hope for overweight children. The episode serves as a cautionary tale about the dangers of unchecked ambition, financial negligence, and the corrosive effects of fatphobia entrenched within societal and institutional frameworks.

Notable Quotes

• Kelsey Snelling on Media Influence:

  “[04:29] Tyra Banks: People can't stop talking about it, saying she looks fat, the way you dress and stuff. I don't think you're aware that you're a heavyset woman.”

• Carl Evans on Camp Representation:

  “[08:09] Kelsey Snelling: That's Carl Evans. He was a shaner in the 2000s. As a black teenage boy, Carl was familiar with prejudice, and he understood how the world felt and thought about fat people.”

• Simon Greenwood on Leadership:

  “[23:56] Simon Greenwood: Simon was the glue of the camp. The campers understood Dave as the owner of the camp, but everyone from counselor to camper understood that Simon was the boss.”

• Dr. Lisa Erlanger on Societal Obsessions:

  “[10:38] Dr. Lisa Erlanger: The obsession with body size and the rise of that can really be traced in the United States to the time of chattel enslavement.”

• Meryl Winter on Overextended Roles:

  “[45:57] Meryl Winter: I remember we were giving out the meds and they were some heavy duty meds. All the kids, thank God, got the right meds and everything was great. But it shouldn't have been me that was giving them out. That was a scary one.”

• Carl Evans on Ethical Decline:

  “[54:14] Kelsey Snelling: That is actually really fucked up behavior. Like, I just, I can't be here anymore.”

Implications and Reflections

The decline of Camp Shane, as chronicled in this episode, underscores the profound impact of societal pressures and stigmas on vulnerable populations. It highlights how institutions, even those with ostensibly noble missions, can devolve into environments that perpetuate harm when oversight is lax and ethical standards are compromised. The narrative serves as a powerful reminder of the need for accountability, compassionate leadership, and the dismantling of fatphobic ideologies that fuel such exploitative systems.

Final Thoughts

Camp Shame: Episode 4 – "As Big as it Gets" offers a compelling exploration of Camp Shane's internal dynamics and external pressures. By shedding light on the camp's darkest moments, Kelsey Snelling not only unravels the complexities behind its operations but also invites listeners to critically examine broader societal issues related to body image, health, and the ethical responsibilities of institutions catering to vulnerable individuals.

Transcript

[Kelsey Snelling]

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[Yvette Dion]

Mikey agreed to go to Camp Shane.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Which is a weight loss camp for young kids.

[Yvette Dion]

And Mikey is back.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Come on out here, Mikey.

[Trey Ferro]

Mikey, look how good you look.

[Meryl Winter]

We gotta pull that shirt back and see that tummy.

[Trey Ferro]

Look at that. Look at this, guys.

[Yvette Dion]

Look at this. This is crazy.

[Kelsey Snelling]

If you didn't recognize that voice, you didn't watch enough America's Next Top Model. What you just heard was Tyra Banks on her talk show Smize and all celebrating a 12 year old boy for his weight while fully patting his now much smaller stomach. In the 2000s, Camp Shayne was riding high. Its message that weight loss was the key to health and happiness had made its way to TVs and magazines around the country. Enrollment was at its highest ever and the media was obsessed with capturing it all.

[Tyra Banks]

Welcome to Camp Shane.

[Yvette Dion]

Camp Shane.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Camp Shane. Camp Shane. More than ever, popular culture was buying into the promise of Camp Shane weight loss at any cost. The messages surrounding young people at the time were, if you lose weight, society will love you more. Camp Shane gained new magical traditions and more campers than ever before. But it was also the point when the disillusioned counselors who made camp so special started leaving. And the safe haven Selma built, even with its flaws, began slipping away. This is Camp Shame. I'm your host, Kelsey Snelling. In this episode, Oprah, Tyra and Dr. Oz join the Camp Shane bandwagon. New leadership elevates camp to unprecedented heights. And Shane becomes a household name in a decade of heinous body shaming. Nicole Richie, you are a little fuller, a little bit more thicker. And how do you feel about the fact that maybe the thickness may hinder you from, you know, getting certain parts.

[Meryl Winter]

And doing certain things?

[Kelsey Snelling]

Jessica Simpson.

[Tyra Banks]

People can't stop talking about it, saying she looks fat, the way you dress and stuff. I don't think you're aware that you're a heavyset woman. That's what I said.

[Meryl Winter]

So what?

[Tyra Banks]

So I was guessing your weight and I was going to say to you today, can you please get on the scale and then we'll have an over under, that's all.

[Kelsey Snelling]

If you or a family member survived adolescence in the 2000s, you may be eligible for financial compensation. I remember it well. The era of flip phones, frosted tips and physics defying low rise jeans. It was also an era of rampant anti fat bias and body shaming. Somehow society felt more obsessed than ever with body image.

[Yvette Dion]

It was just pop stars being splashed on the covers of magazines and tabloids, literally chronicling how big their bodies were. It was young women being treated as commodities and not human beings.

[Kelsey Snelling]

That's Yvette Dion. Yvette is a culture journalist and pop culture critic who examines the world through the lenses of race, gender and size.

[Yvette Dion]

I remember the quest was to be able to wear jeans that were so low that you couldn't see the underwear, but you could see fully the abs of that time. I just remember the 2000s being a time where young people were encouraged to be hard on themselves and hard on each other. And our pop culture reinforcing that, our teachings enforcing that, everything that we were consuming, enforcing that, and really taking us to a place where none of us were comfortable in our bodies.

[Kelsey Snelling]

As someone who grew up in a bigger body, Yvette is all too familiar with the scrutiny that people face when their bodies don't meet the ideal, which was an impossible feat in the 2000s. The beauty standards were honestly deranged. We saw it in reality TV makeover shows like the Swan. Kathy's plan features several procedures, starting with her face. She'll have a brow lift, nose job, lip enhancement, fat injected under her eyes, cheek fat removal, a chemical peel, photo, facial collagen, laser hair removal, and Lasik eye surgery. For Kathy's body, she'll have breast augmentation with nipple lift and liposuction in six different areas. Then there were shows like the Biggest Loser, which rewarded contestants for losing exorbitant amounts of weight with huge cash prizes. Ten more. Ten more. Ten more. 10 more. 10 more. 10. Good job. I don't know if Greg's proud of vomiting or not, but I'm proud that I made him vomit, and that's all that matters. Weight loss programs didn't just exist. They were now televised, and people weren't turned off by it. In fact, they couldn't get enough. And all of this seeped into the minds of young, impressionable Americans. I like to look like Britney Spears. I like to have the buns of.

[Simon Greenwood]

Steel and the abs of gold and.

[Kelsey Snelling]

You know, but I want to lose 30 pounds or 35 pounds, no matter where you turned. The media was overtly telling people famous and not that their bodies were wrong and needed to change. With this being the dominant message. A place like Shane was an attractive alternative to being bullied, judged, or ostracized for your body size and all of the assumptions that came along with it.

[Simon Greenwood]

When you are heavyset, people kind of think you're dumb, right?

[Kelsey Snelling]

That's Carl Evans. He was a shaner in the 2000s. As a black teenage boy, Carl was familiar with prejudice, and he understood how the world felt and thought about fat people.

[Simon Greenwood]

But as a kid, I sort of had this omnipresent sense of, like, my competency, intellectual competencies attached to it. And I was a kid who ended up in special ed for reasons that me, my parents and I still couldn't.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Figure out what Carl's describing. That fatness race and intellect are intertwined is a, well, enduring stereotype.

[Dr. Lisa Erlanger]

Societies across time and place have always had one type of body or another that they revere and others that you know is less acceptable.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Dr. Lisa Erlanger, who you heard from last episode, is a weight inclusive care doctor. She's done her fair share of research into what's contributed to these stereotypes around fatness, and one piece of that is race. In episode two, we covered part of the history that led to fat being demonized. But the Industrial Revolution and the Civil War weren't the only things to blame for that shift. Well before those events, white Americans were looking for ways to create space between themselves and the societal connotations associated with enslaved black people.

[Dr. Lisa Erlanger]

The obsession with body size and the rise of that can really be traced in the United States to the time of chattel enslavement. And in the United States, that's also when Protestantism characterized the white population and a desire to differentiate the white population from the enslaved population and to justify enslavement. And so enslaved people were often described as being, you know, not slaves to their white masters, but rather to their sensuality. They couldn't stop eating, they couldn't stop having sex, they couldn't stop sleeping, and that therefore, without white control, they would become fat and lazy and dumb. And this was differentiated especially from the abstemious white woman who controlled her sensuality and therefore achieved her moral superiority and thinness.

[Kelsey Snelling]

These stereotypes were used to oppress enslaved people and justify the need for control by white masters. But as we all know, there is no link between fatness and intelligence, nor is there a link between race and intelligence. Unfortunately, stereotypes are persistent, and Carl was no stranger to them. Compelled by shame, Carl lied to his friends that he was spending the summer with his uncle. He then flew to New York and boarded a bus bound for Camp Shane.

[Simon Greenwood]

From the bus ride, I had the dumb privilege of being sitting near someone. It was right out of heavy, sitting near the lifer at the camp who immediately, because there weren't a lot of black kids at the camp, immediately was like, hey, you're new. And I'm like, yes. And he's like, where are you from? And I'm like, chicago. And he's like, oh, great. And he's from, like, Miami, but there's not a lot of. Most of the kids are from the east Coast. So I stood out in two ways. He zeroed in on me. And why that's important is because right when I got off the bus, I had my own, like, camp lure Guide.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Having a camp lure guide at Shane was a privilege. Lifers knew stuff. They knew how to smuggle in food, they knew which counselors to go to for what, and they knew the ever so important camp traditions. That first year at Shane was pivotal for Carl.

[Simon Greenwood]

I achieved quite a bit as a first year camper. I set the camp weight loss record that first summer. I did something that I was told was a first and that I won camper of the year as a first year camper. And I had begun to have a very professionally close relationship to Dave attenberg as a camper. And by the end of that first summer, anything Dave Attenborough would have asked me to do, I would have done.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Carl was completely sold. He loved camp, and his parents loved the results even more. That summer, he lost 87 pounds.

[Simon Greenwood]

I came back in the fall of 2001, half of who I was, and it looked completely different. And my parents just went up and down the family chain sending pictures and oh, my God. And da da da da. And this place was amazing.

[Kelsey Snelling]

After his time as a camper, Carl became a full time counselor. He was something of a poster child for camp Shane. After all, what was better for business than weight loss results like Carl's?

[Simon Greenwood]

After my first summers, I was a true convert. I restructured my whole life around a commitment to camp Shane so that any labor opportunities, college opportunities, any opportunity could not interfere with making sure I was back there in the summer. And as a counselor, my mission was to try to give kids the experience that I had, that what I felt saved my life. And so those first summers that I was a counselor, I was like, this is going to be my life.

[Kelsey Snelling]

And it did become his life. Whatever David needed to get or keep campers, Carl was on it.

[Simon Greenwood]

As I went on as a counselor, I became a very centralized cheerleader and supporter of the camp sheen recruitment and promotional strategy.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Carl shared tips and tricks on how to retain campers with fellow staff, and he convinced parents to sign their kids up for next summer before the current summer was even over. Because of people like Carl proselytizing about camp, the gospel of Shane spread far and wide.

[Simon Greenwood]

Dave would have me kind of freewheel around the camp and rope parents of target and see if I couldn't softly, passively actively close them on. You know, they're offering, like, half off if you lock in a deposit for next summer, because we know a lifer when we see one.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Lifers were the kids that came back year after year and for whom camp Shane was a part of their core identity. Carl Was a proud lifer. He saw what he was doing as a mission for other kids to experience what he had.

[Simon Greenwood]

It's the most truest piece of advertising that's ever existed is that cap chain isn't just a place. It's a feeling. That bubble helped me discover my sense of identity and craft and become a human being that I am proud to be to this day.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Being a lifer was a complicated badge of honor because it meant you knew camp's ins and outs, but it also meant you probably weren't keeping the weight off. Despite this, Carl was more than happy to support Camp Shane's mission, even in the off season.

[Simon Greenwood]

In the off season, I was doing anything Dave asked to in terms of recruitment and promotion. We wrote letters and helped support and endorse and made connections to PR people.

[Kelsey Snelling]

What Carl was doing could be called grassroots recruitment and a DIY PR campaign. And it worked. Camp Shane started to catch the attention of major media outlets, and its visibility skyrocketed. In the early 2000s, MTV, True Life had a whole episode following campers at Shane.

[Simon Greenwood]

That helps.

[California Psychics]

Knowing that I'm not gonna be judged because of the fact that I'm massive.

[Simon Greenwood]

It's easy to meet the opposite sex here.

[Meryl Winter]

It's not difficult. Like you could approach a girl with confidence.

[Kelsey Snelling]

This is a meat market, I guess. Meryl winter, a staff member at camp Shayne from 2003 until 2014, remembers a few others.

[Meryl Winter]

And then we had TLC come and do a series where they followed kids around and tracked their progress throughout the summer.

[Kelsey Snelling]

I'm Lindsey. I'm 17 years old, and I'm from Seminole, Florida. I feel like camp Shane will be the starting point, Just the push I need to get me started on a weight loss track.

[Meryl Winter]

Mtv came, they did made.

[Simon Greenwood]

Meet Danielle.

[Kelsey Snelling]

She's always been known as the fat girl. She eats so much, but now she's tired of what she sees.

[Simon Greenwood]

I'm gonna try to lose £60.

[Kelsey Snelling]

20.

[Meryl Winter]

20 came. There was always some media coverage going on.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Popular talk show hosts like Dr. Oz, Oprah Winfrey, and Barbara Walters also praised the transformative power of Camp Shane. This was exactly what David needed. He was constantly on calls trying to secure media coverage. The attention did wonders for business, but it was spreading a harmful message. The message that if you're fat, it's a personal failure and only you are responsible for your excess weight. Places like fat camps profit tremendously off of this dominant belief. This is all so deeply baked into our culture that even the medical establishment seems incapable of recognizing how entrenched fatphobia is in our world. Camp Shane always benefited from this. But with the intensification of the quote obesity epidemic in the 2000s, many children were sent to fat camps at the recommendation of their doctors, despite their actual health.

[Dr. Lisa Erlanger]

Healthcare is almost symbolized by the ritual of stepping on a scale as the first thing we do.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Dr. Lisa Erlinger again, so much so.

[Dr. Lisa Erlanger]

That a scale, that tall scale that we see in the doctor's office, is even like emblematic of medical care itself. The visit then becomes a response to that number on the scale.

[Kelsey Snelling]

The weight centric approach means providers can overlook other important health factors leading to larger bodied patients getting misdiagnosed and potentially worsening their conditions.

[Dr. Lisa Erlanger]

There are many, many more providers who see weight as an appropriate measure of health, an appropriate target for intervention, and an appropriate outcome measure for health interventions.

[Kelsey Snelling]

The truly obnoxious part of all of this forced weighing is that weight does a pretty crap job at predicting health. We learned about this in episode three when we dove into bmi. We all know fat people who are healthy. Think about all of the body diversity we see in top performing athletes like Olympians. And we all know thin people who are not. This is why it's so important that healthcare providers listen and believe fat people when they come in with issues not related to their weight. Back in the 2000s, the CDC reported that there was a 45% increase in childhood obesity between 1994 and 2002. Media coverage in public health campaigns exacerbated the issue. The number of children classified as overweight was rapidly climbing. Might I add, in spite of decades of dieting.

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[Kelsey Snelling]

Camp Shane was more en vogue than ever. And after the MTV True Life episode, there was a huge spike in enrollment. Since David was so busy with the business, he needed someone on the ground not afraid to get their hands dirty. Someone completely entrenched in the Camp Shane way of life. Someone who could hold it all together while keeping camp an engaging place for high paying Shaners. Perhaps a charming and enthusiastic British former race car driver. That would be Simon Greenwood. You remember Simon, the all star Camp America Counselor. Well, in 2003, David promoted Simon to camp director. And people loved Simon.

[Simon Greenwood]

Simon was the glue of the camp. The campers understood Dave as the owner of the camp, but everyone from counselor to camper understood that Simon was the boss. Simon is always seen as a good guy and he knew what to do and he ordered everyone else to do it. And you did it and you didn't fuck around or goof off when Simon was around, you know what I mean? Simon had a mystique to him because Simon also assembled things like for the big games and the big events. You always saw Simon leading the charge on building this thing or that thing.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Simon was especially influential for Carl. After Carl's first summers as a counselor, he said, I'm going to be doing.

[Simon Greenwood]

What Simon Greenwood does one day, like five, ten years from now. I'm going to be assistant director, director of this camp.

[Kelsey Snelling]

There was a shift under Simon's leadership because unlike David, Simon had his hand in everything, every facet of the camp.

[Simon Greenwood]

He would be responsible from the kitchen staff to the laundry team to housekeeping to maintenance, keeping an eye on, making sure counselors were where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be. And he was a very respectful but good, solid leader about that stuff. In enforcing the parameters, camp had the.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Potential to be so much better than what it was offering. If anyone could help turn things around, it was Simon. He started with the kitchen. As you know by now, the food at camp was a disappointment at best.

[Simon Greenwood]

Food ordering was substandard quality, basic. Not that they promoted that they were giving Michelin Star menus, but the food was always the bare. The bare basic.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Simon made things better than they were. Even if he couldn't always get the money to support his ideas, he made it happen. He managed to do a lot with the little he was given. Merrill, who started working with Simon in 2003, had the impression that he was really unhappy with the food quality. At camp. But he wasn't working with a big.

[Meryl Winter]

Budget, so he figured out a way to spend the same amount of money yet make the quality better. He went in and he found if he got the spinach salad and put the cranberries in it and whatever, and then he would sit and make all of us have taste tests to see if the quality was better, if the kids would like it, and then he would have the kids rate the food choices to see what they liked the most so he could added on the menu. So he basically revamped the kitchen.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Not gonna lie. I still dream of that spinach salad. Simon seemed to remember that summer camp, fat camp or not, Was all about fun and unforgettable memories. He went above and beyond to achieve this, Even though he didn't have much to work with. Here's Carl again.

[Simon Greenwood]

I don't know the exact origin stories, but somehow he got a bug up his butt. To build a water slide, Simon made.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Something out of nothing by taking a bunch of drainage tubing, Running it down a hill, and using water from the nearby water fountain for lubrication. But before he could send campers down, he needed a test dummy. In this instance, the best he could come up with was a counselor.

[Simon Greenwood]

So they sent a counselor down. The counselor came down, and they're like, oh, my. Like, this was like a ribbed tubing, okay? And it hurt. Like, he's like, this hurts a lot. But the water part did work. It was lubricated enough for water to go down, but the ribbing just created friction.

[Kelsey Snelling]

After much trial and error, Simon and his crew put layers of plastic down to reduce the friction and give more padding. And voila. He had created a 10 to 15 yard water slide that became a camp staple.

[Simon Greenwood]

A delightful experience the kids got because, you know, that's the best parts of camp Shane were oftentimes these ad hoc things.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Simon also used his craftiness to take one of camp's most beloved traditions to new heights. Many summer camps are familiar with the tradition of color war. It happens the final week of the summer. The camp is divided into two teams, each represented by a color. In the case of camp Shane, there was the orange team and the black team. Color war had always been a big event at Shane, But Simon and his team brought it to the next level by adding an elaborate opening ceremony. The ceremony was always after dark. The entire camp would be sent to the soccer field and would sit with bated breath beneath the starry catskill skies. The only light came from tiki torches, which surrounded the field and flickered in a magical, witchy sort of way. Then drums.

[Simon Greenwood]

You would have this thing where people dressed up in indigenous native garb would appear out of the forests like entities, and they'd be torch carrying, building up this procession of the arrival of two competing tribes that were indigenous to the lands long ago. For the PC side, a gross appropriation of Native American, Polynesian and a few other indigenous tribal aesthetics and ceremonial themes.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Now, the 2000s weren't known for being politically correct, but I can't deny when I participated in my own Color War a few years later, the spectacle of it all was astounding.

[Simon Greenwood]

You see the fires pop up in the treelines, these pitch black tree lines, and these people who were once your counselors are dressed in these wild war paints and wearing the most minimal, minimal loincloth and outfits. And when they come out, they are game faced and they're intense. And you as a camper, watch these people who are once your counselors come out affecting these indigenous warriors carrying princesses and chieftains and. And they do these dances with fire, these fire dances and these beautifully choreographed things to Enya soundtracks. And it's. It's bombastic and it's absurd, but man, it's all practical effects and it is magical music. Camper. I was like, this is the coolest thing. Regardless of what happens afterwards, the opening ceremony, when done right, was just a real piece of magic.

[Kelsey Snelling]

This is what Simon did. He took the old standard camp traditions and transformed them into magical experiences. He really amped up the next part of Color War too.

[Simon Greenwood]

Simon would just come up with these ways of, like, reappropriating space. The creative things he would do during Color wars, where we're constructing things in the stadium for part of entertainment and showcasing some sort of narrative that would be interactive for the campers, where think of a gym stadium. Cut the gym stadium in half and you have two teams of counselors who build some sort of theme with their half of the gym. And when I say build, I mean build. I mean you get to use real lumber. You can run electrical lines.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Counselors would build entire worlds movie sets minus the movie, to perform skits and dances for their color war teams throughout the week. The theme might be Outer Space, under the Sea or King Kong. They'd craft buildings, fountains and murals. One year they even brought in live animals as part of their set. It was like a mini Disney world just for Shane.

[Simon Greenwood]

He could help facilitate sheer magic into being. He actively engaged in the creative side and programming side that helped counselors create experiences that would be life, you know, Lifetime memories for campers.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Camp was making good on the promise of a magical summer. But behind the scenes, it was a nightmare for David Attenberg.

[Carl Evans]

Ever had a thought like, is my partner the one? Maybe we should break up, since I'm not sure even though I'm happy or what if I lose control and hurt someone with this knife, even though I don't want to, I should hide all the knives and maybe stop cooking. I'm Nicole Raffi. I have ocd. And that's what OCD actually looks like. Not the stereotypes about cleanliness. Real OCD overwhelms with unwanted, distressing thoughts. Then you feel compelled to do something about these thoughts just to function. It's exhausting and isolating, but more common than you'd think and highly treatable with the right therapy. OCD needs specialized therapy, not standard talk therapy, which can make it worse. NOCD is the world's largest provider of specialized treatment for ocd. Their treatments are highly trained. They offer virtual sessions and support between sessions, and they're covered by insurance for over 150, 55 million Americans. If this sounds familiar, visit nocd.com for a free call to learn how they can help. That's n o c d dot com.

[California Psychics]

At California Psychics, we know that sometimes you can wake up thinking.

[Kelsey Snelling]

I don't.

[Trey Ferro]

Know if I'm in the right career.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Ew or the right relationship.

[California Psychics]

But whatever your life dilemma at California Psychics will give you the guidance you need to feel certain about your life choices. And because we only connect you with the very best, we guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free. California psychics. Call 1-800-PREDICT today and get 20 minutes for just $20.

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[Kelsey Snelling]

We know it's more than a life policy. It's about the promise and the respons that comes with being a new parent, being there day and night.

[Simon Greenwood]

And building.

[Kelsey Snelling]

A plan for tomorrow today for the ones you'll always look out for. Trust Amica Life Insurance. Amica empathy is our best policy. Meanwhile, at Camp Shane, David still had his hands full with his mother. Yeah, that was still going on. To be clear, Selma hadn't owned Camp Shayne for more than a decade at this point. But her pettiness was unmatched from her house across the street. She would call the cops if staff used the PA system after 9pm on family visiting day. If parents parked in the street illegally, she would have their cars towed. It was impossible for counselors to ignore the tension. Their family squabbles were on full display. But there were even bigger issues percolating to the surface. By 2004, enrollment had grown to its highest ever and it put a serious strain on the staff and infrastructure. Here's Meryl again.

[Meryl Winter]

We were busting at the seams at that point. It was like 575 kids. We had over 300 staff. It was a lot.

[Kelsey Snelling]

It wasn't just the campers that felt these growing pains.

[Meryl Winter]

Simon and his wife lived in like an apartment on the side of a building. He had to move out of those and those had to become bunks. We added bunk beds into places where they could fit one more. I think we had to bring in trailers to make bunks and we couldn't even fit into the cafeteria. The whole camp was too big.

[Kelsey Snelling]

But there was still an influx of cash and that was a good thing for David's business. To be fair, he wasn't the only one in the weight loss business making millions. Here's culture journalist Yvette Dion again.

[Yvette Dion]

In the society that we live in, diet culture is connected inherently to companies that profit from telling us that things are wrong with our bodies. And so the dieting industry is a billion dollar industry, meaning that these corporations earn billions of dollars telling us that our bodies are not good enough as they are. And so if you go to this class or if you take this pill, or if you wear this waist trainer, you get to have this ideal. And I Put that in quotation marks, body type. And so we become ensnared in this system that's selling us our insecurities and then telling us they have the solution to fix the insecurity that they're telling us that we have.

[Kelsey Snelling]

David was certainly making money by targeting children's insecurities. But he was not always forthcoming about that money. And that got him into trouble. One day in the summer of 2000, two men in suits arrived at Camp Shane. They stood out among the basketball shorts and baggy T shirts that were ubiquitous at camp. At first, David didn't think much of it. Occasionally, lawyers or caseworkers would show up to handle support issues with specific campers. Turns out this time they wanted to speak with David. They were representatives from the irs, and it wasn't good. Remember, this was the most popular Shane had ever been. And a nine week session cost a whopping $6,400. David was easily raking in 2 million a summer. That's a lot of money to be pulling in when the feds are watching you and you best believe they were watching. In fact, the IRS had an investigation underway. They had reason to believe David wasn't reporting all of his taxable income. Still dealing with the constant feuding with his mother, David was convinced Selma had tipped them off. This wouldn't have been the first time Selma tried to sabotage her son. As the former owner, Selma had more than enough inside knowledge to sell David out. In September 2004, the IRS finished their investigation. They'd uncovered that David had been renting out the campgrounds to a church group and a school group in the off season. And he had failed to report more than $100,000 in income. Soon after, he pled guilty to tax evasion and faced up to 14 months in prison. That left everybody at Shane with questions. With David gone, who would oversee camp? Who would manage the business? More importantly, would Camp be shut down? Of course, David didn't end up in prison, not with our justice system. The judge who took his case believed Camp Shane to be a noble project. In his ruling, he said, though there is no question that the offense is a serious one. Given what I have come to learn about Mr. Attenberg's circumstances and his life of work. It would be a grave injustice and a shame if anything were done that would have a serious detrimental impact on Camp Shane. The Judge gave David four years of probation and 400 hours of community service. He also made David pay nearly $60,000 in restitution and fees and ordered him to give 50 scholarships to underprivileged kids. Over the next four years, as a result of the conviction, the American Camp association, or ACA removed Camp Shayne's accreditation. This meant it no Longer met the ACA's guidelines for safety, health program quality and management practices. Shane could still operate, sure, but without that gold star Camp Shane could lose the confidence of customers and the media that trusted the camp to uphold certain standards of care and safety. Side note, this wasn't the first time Shane had lost aca accreditation. In 2001, it was temporarily revoked for poor reviews and inspection results. Yikes. Throughout the investigation, David basically had free legal counsel. His wife Tzipporah, a New York bar approved attorney, represented him. When the end of David's probation was coming up, Zipporah wrote a letter requesting that David be released from probation early. They wanted their ACA accreditation back for the upcoming summer. As the camp owner, David needed to be off probation so that the ACA could come do an inspection. According to Zipporah's letter, which was written to the judge, the ACA withdrawal had far reaching consequences. Consequences one being that, quote, media that have been interested in doing programs and stories on the camp have backed away. The letter worked. By now it was the mid 2000s. David was off the hook and went straight back to business. Camp Shane began expanding beyond Ferndale, New York. In 2007 they started opening satellite camps. Small resort style versions of Camp Shane started popping up across the country. California, Georgia and Wisconsin were just a few. These camps were very different from Ferndale. Instead of being in cabins surrounded by lush green woods, campers were usually on college campuses in dorms that were rented for the summer by Shane. This was one way for David to grow his empire without taking on too many extra costs. Back at the main camp in Ferndale though, the money wasn't exactly trickling down. Some new cabins were built, but equipment was breaking down.

[Simon Greenwood]

Things would not be repaired for a very, very long time. And not because Simon wasn't capable or didn't have it on his docket to do. It was the stringency of the way the budget would be. Dave would just stretch it, he would do without. So there were any number of places, instruments on camp that sometimes when they broke, they were done. Go karts and dune buggies is the most notorious where they'd be running and fully operational at the start of the summer. But man, you get to anything that costs more than like 25 bucks to fix or replace and Simon totally backs you. But it's not getting replaced.

[Kelsey Snelling]

These refusals to make seemingly small fixes were frustrating for Carl and other counselors. And they were starting to create tension between the staff and David.

[Simon Greenwood]

All these things are happening that the answers are, we need more investment in the camp. You know what I mean? Like, we could win this. Like, we can get Dave to convert and open up the pocketbook. He's being stubborn and whatever because it's his job to be conservative on the money and blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Kelsey Snelling]

By 2007, there was what Carl described as a war behind the scenes between David and the staff. He said that David didn't want to spend money. While the counselors advocated for some reinvestment in the camp, A complete and critical.

[Simon Greenwood]

Breakdown in the core cultural factors of the camp. You always had this core returning staff. What started to happen in the 90s and then fully exploded in my time was you also had the camper counselor phenomenon, where you could have started as a lifer, as a camper, and then became a counselor. So, like, by the late 90s and into the early 2000s, you saw people who had already put in six years as a camper became a counselor. And what that did is it reinforced what was already a fraternal, sororial sort of sense of the camp. You took ownership of the traditions. You really believed in them. So as staff investment cheaped out and you started to lose that.

[Kelsey Snelling]

The passion that kept those lifers coming back year after year started waning as their pay didn't reflect the time, sweat and energy they'd put into Shane, Especially for as long as many of them had been there.

[Simon Greenwood]

Some counselors who were multi year counselors were given the same static pay. Well, that's bullshit. And people are gonna go somewhere, you know.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Longtime staff stopped returning in bigger numbers, and the new staff, well, they were.

[Simon Greenwood]

Barely there for the campers, and they're more interested in hitting the bar.

[Kelsey Snelling]

And the counselors who were sticking around and trying to be there for the kids found themselves taking on more and more specialized and haphazard responsibilities. Meryl Winter, who was still working as a group leader in 2008, remembers once when the nurse took a day off, the sub never showed up. So it was somehow Meryl's job to fill in.

[Meryl Winter]

I remember we were giving out the meds and they were some heavy duty meds. All the kids, thank God, got the right meds and everything was great. But it shouldn't have been me that was giving them out. That was a scary one.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Counselors were also now working with a new demographic of camper who needed even More medical attention To Meryl, it seemed like David was willing to let anyone in just to make a few more dollars. Even if they were kids who Camp Shane couldn't properly and responsibly take on.

[Meryl Winter]

Kids would come straight from, like rehab facilities. Not a lot, but it happened. Kids would be mentally unstable. They would come on meds that we couldn't get because they were from another country. Just certain things like that where, you know, he wouldn't have to deal with it, we would have to deal with it, and we would have to find a way to make life nice and safe.

[Kelsey Snelling]

But making sure the counselors felt equipped to handle the needs of their campers wasn't David's concern.

[Meryl Winter]

He was happy with bodies in camp, whether they be kids or counselors. You know, as long as the counselors were a body that was there and he met the ratio of how many staff to kids, he was happy. Didn't matter if they were doing things that were unethical or dangerous. And I don't mean he meant to put the kids at harm. He was just, you know, if it's, let me just slide by this summer and we could start fresh next summer, you know.

[Kelsey Snelling]

In 2008, Carl didn't feel that Camp Shane was equipped to care for campers with specialized medical needs. Although they advertised having psychology professionals, the people hired didn't always meet the required qualifications. They were often in training or in the process of getting their degrees.

[Simon Greenwood]

So there were kids who were living with mental challenges and were on the spectrum who should not come to a place that doesn't have the medical and clinical training to monitor them for 24 hours or 12 hours at a time. Kids who could not necessarily be legitimately, autonomously living individuals. And that's what that was like. The final pressure breaker on Camp Sheen.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Maybe if camp had the qualified medical professionals that it claimed to have, it's possible they could have properly cared for these kids. But that wasn't the case.

[Simon Greenwood]

Case 2008 was the place where, like, we were still trying to run it as the feel good, happy time. But there were so many kids who had behavioral disorders, counselors who didn't give a shit, campers who were super toxic, that you were putting out fires every single day as opposed to putting joy into people's hearts. And so that was the real sort of like degrading of everything.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Carl started to realize that Selma's safe haven, the one for kids growing up in an anti fat society, was beginning to slip away.

[Simon Greenwood]

In the least amount of words possible. You had skinny Kids coming who shouldn't be there, who you're probably generating disordered thinking and unhealthy relationships to food by sending them to a fat camp when they're just the kid with the biggest waist size in their spirit social group at home, it, it putrefied the social environment because now you had skinny kids back in fields with obese kids and heavyweight kids and it's high school, right? So the skinnier girls got all the attention. It threw everything off.

[Kelsey Snelling]

For someone who'd poured his heart and soul into camp, this breakdown really affected Carl.

[Simon Greenwood]

I had a really sad moment happen where I kind of knew it wasn't going to come back. At the closing night of that summer where I was listening to a counselor, a first year counselor, excitedly talk about man, next year. And I realized like I have no excitement for next year. And that was the first time I'd never, I'd ever felt that. And it was like feeling a trapdoor open in the bottom of your soul. Like, you know, the way everyone felt when bing bong, like faded away in the middle of inside out thing.

[Dr. Lisa Erlanger]

Mong, you made it.

[Tyra Banks]

Go, go save Riley.

[Simon Greenwood]

Take her to the moon for me. Okay.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Carl returned one last time. But it was more out of obligation than excitement. And he certainly didn't restructure his whole summer around camp like he used to. Here's how Carl remembers that final summer in 2009.

[Simon Greenwood]

I came to help the camp halfway through the summer. I could only do half a summer and I came as maintenance and punched in. But I also did a huge amount of work as a counselor, basically as like a de facto like assistant head counselor. Well, at the end of the summer I was waiting for my punch in pay the when I clocked in and clocked out every day in the hour and Dave was like, well, I thought you did this for free.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Classic.

[Simon Greenwood]

I had watched and tried to advocate for counselors who felt they were underpaid. Okay, you know, like, hey Dave, come on, let's talk about this. And we get heated privately, right? Well now I'd had this conversation with Dave about justifying somebody's pay and he's looking at me. Despite an email thread that we had. Me and Simon had about discussing the rate, my hourly rate and whatever coming in it. And Dave just straight up said, well, I guess that's a misunderstanding.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Shirley Simon, who always had his staff's back, who was rumored to bleed orange and whom Carl idolized, would step in and save the day.

[Simon Greenwood]

And I'm having this argument with him. Well, Simon's Sitting right next to him. So I looked, Looked at Simon. I said, bro, like, you have the emails right there on your computer. And then Simon stops, looks at Dave, then looks back at me. You know, it makes me. You know, I'm trying to cry, like. And he's like, I think we've had a mistake. And Simon freaking sent me up the river too. Like, he didn't. I mean, if Simon had put his foot down, I should have gotten the full pay. But he just like, oh, I guess it was a misunderstanding.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Carl was on his own.

[Simon Greenwood]

So then Dave gets to look at me and be like, oh, well, that's not my fault, because whatever you and Simon talked about, I think the pay I would have been owed was something above 1100 bucks. I walked out of that room feeling like a prostitute because he gave me, like 300 bucks cash from, like, a petty, petty envelope. I gotta tell you, I never saw that coming. So that was. That was brutal.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Here was Carl, former star camper and near celebrity counselor, who recruited, marketed, and wholeheartedly believed in the Camp Shane mission. On the receiving end of David's penny pinching tendencies, camp had turned into something he no longer recognized.

[Simon Greenwood]

The politics, all the bullshit that we had, some of us had thought was fiscal conservancy, it came out as, these are dishonorable decisions. Not miserly decisions, but dishonorable ones. And the curtain was down now. The bad things that were happening weren't happening because of the innocence of tough financial decisions. Bad things were happening because Dave, a lot of us, finally, we're realizing, like, this is ethically not a good person.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Next time on Camp Shame.

[Simon Greenwood]

We just were like, what do we do?

[Kelsey Snelling]

It is our job to promote a.

[Simon Greenwood]

Camp now that is essentially condoning behavior that we don't agree with.

[Kelsey Snelling]

That is actually really fucked up behavior. Like, I just, I can't be here anymore.

[Dr. Lisa Erlanger]

I have to go.

[Kelsey Snelling]

We reached out to Simon Greenwood, David Attenberg and his wife Tzipporah Janowski for commentary. At the time of this recording, we have not received a reply. Camp Shame is a production of iHeart podcasts. I'm your host, Kelsey Snelling. Camp Shame is produced by Brittany Martinez, Taylor Williamson, Sarah Schleed, Lucy Jones, and Aliya Yates Grau. Our editor is Courtney Hommeister with additional editorial support from Lindsey Cradlewill and Grace Lynch. Our executive executive producers are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rutter, and me, Kelsey Snelling for iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Christina Everett. Fact checking done by Madeline Gore, Lucy Jones, Paloma Moreno Jimenez, Lauren Williams and Fiona Pestana. Our theme music is produced by Shaun Patel. Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever are you. You get your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram at Camp Shame. That's with an M. If you or anyone you know went to Camp Shane, reach out with your camp stories.

[California Psychics]

At California Psychics, we know that sometimes you can wake up thinking.

[Trey Ferro]

I don't know if I'm in the right career ew or the right relationship.

[California Psychics]

But whatever your life dilemma, at California Psychics, we'll give you the guidance you need to feel certain about your life choices. And because we only connect you with the very best, we guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free. California psychics call 1-800-PREDICT today and get 20 minutes for just $20.

[Kelsey Snelling]

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[Simon Greenwood]

Make way for the Baron of Brioche, the Sultan of Sourdough, the Lord of the Loaves.

[Dr. Lisa Erlanger]

Prime Member Dave yeah, hi.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Shop great deals this prime day, July 8th through the 11th.

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