Episode 7: Nobody Believes the Fat Kid

Summary

Episode 7: Nobody Believes the Fat Kid
Release Date: July 3, 2025
Host: Kelsey Snelling
Podcast: Camp Shame by iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction: Unveiling the Dark Side of Camp Shane

In this poignant episode of Camp Shame, host Kelsey Snelling delves deep into the troubling allegations of sexual abuse at Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for children. While the camp promised transformative weight loss and boosted self-esteem, behind the scenes, a culture of abuse and fatphobia thrived, leaving lasting scars on its campers.

The Allure of Young Love and Its Perils

Summer at Camp Shane was marketed as a haven where children could shed their physical insecurities and experience the joys of young romance. However, this environment also became a breeding ground for inappropriate and abusive relationships.

• Kelsey Snelling [02:07]: “Summer Love the subject of countless songs, movies and poems, it's an experience many young people spend all year dreaming about. For Shaners especially, summertime was a chance for an epic romance in picturesque woods with no parents around and self-confidence growing by the day.”

Campers were encouraged to engage in relationships, ostensibly to normalize dating experiences. However, the scarcity mindset—where the limited weeks at camp were seen as the sole opportunity for love—led to coercive and dangerous encounters.

Free Play: The Cradle of Unmonitored Interactions

One of the primary settings where abuse thrived was during "free play," an unstructured hour each day where campers could mingle without supervision.

• Ariel Berger [04:44]: “Free play was the only period of the day that campers got to use their time however they pleased. This is where I first got banaka and gum and you would trade it and you know, you'd try and find an area and make out.”

Despite rules permitting only mild physical affection, the lack of effective oversight allowed many campers to push beyond these boundaries, creating an environment ripe for abuse.

The Nookie Patrol: A Miknown Issue

To enforce the rules, counselors initiated the "nookie patrol," designed to monitor and curb inappropriate behavior. However, this often led to confrontations and further complications.

• Meryl Winter [05:51]: “At first, the counselors, they loved being on this patrol. I mean, they just loved it. They would get creative. They'd bring flashlights and alarms... And a few of them caught kids in very hairy situations.”

Seth Kwitko's Story: A Harrowing Journey

At the heart of this episode lies the heart-wrenching story of Seth Kwitko, a former camper who endured severe abuse at the hands of a counselor named Peter.

• Seth Kwitko [13:02]: “He made me enjoy the camp more. He made me feel less homesick. He made me feel comfortable. He did what I thought a counselor should do.”
• Seth Kwitko [14:11]: “He would ply me with food. As we know in camp, food is currency... he would sneak in things and he would give them to me.”

Initially, Peter was a supportive figure, providing Seth with attention and treats, fostering a false sense of security. However, over time, Peter's behavior became increasingly inappropriate and sexually charged.

• Seth Kwitko [17:50]: “And he just kept chipping away and chipping away and chipping away... And then ... mutual masturbation... he would want to kiss me, and then he would do fellatio, and then it just kept going.”

Feelings of shame, guilt, and confusion overwhelmed Seth, making it difficult for him to recognize the abuse and confide in anyone.

Cultural Underpinnings of Abuse: Fatphobia and Its Role

Dr. Rachel Milner, a licensed psychologist and fat activist, provides critical insights into how societal fatphobia exacerbates the vulnerability of campers like Seth.

• Dr. Rachel Milner [09:05]: “Many higher weight teens have had the experience of not being invited to prom, or not being asked out on a date, or being told that they're not attractive.”

This pervasive stigma not only lowers self-esteem but also creates an environment where abusive behavior is more likely to go unchecked, as the camp's culture implicitly values thinness over the well-being of its campers.

Additional Abuse Cases and Legal Ramifications

Seth's case was not isolated. Another camper filed a lawsuit in 2021, alleging that Camp Shane failed to protect a 15-year-old autistic boy from assault by a peer, highlighting systemic issues within the camp's management.

• Kelsey Snelling [30:46]: “Fat women are significantly less likely to be believed about sexual abuse than thin women. This has been reflected in multiple studies.”

These cases underscore the camp's negligence in addressing abuse, further fueled by a culture that devalues the self-worth of its campers based on their body size.

The Struggle for Healing and Justice

Seth's journey toward healing was long and arduous. Encouraged by changes in New York State law—the Child Victims Act—Seth felt empowered to finally speak out and seek justice.

• Seth Kwitko [36:57]: “When I was 12, I was sexually abused.”
• Ariel Berger [36:57]: “Then in 2019, something caught Seth's attention... He knew that this undertaking would require him to finally tell his mother.”

Through therapy and legal action, Seth began to process his trauma, emphasizing the importance of self-worth and the realization that the abuse was not his fault.

The Aftermath: Camp Shane's Closure and Reflections

Following the lawsuit and mounting allegations, Camp Shane faced intense scrutiny. Although the camp tried to rebrand and reopen under new management, the shadow of past abuses lingered, ensuring that such a chapter would not be repeated without accountability.

• Kelsey Snelling [42:43]: “We reached out to David Attenberg, Zippora Janowski, and Peter for comment. At the time of this recording, we have not received a reply.”

The closure marked the end of an era but also served as a cautionary tale about the dangers of unchecked authority and cultural stigmas.

Conclusion: The Heavy Price of Shame

Nobody Believes the Fat Kid is a sobering exploration of how systemic issues, fueled by societal fatphobia and lack of oversight, can lead to devastating abuse. Through Seth's and Stacy's stories, the episode underscores the importance of creating environments where all children feel valued and safe, free from the pressures of fitting into harmful cultural narratives.

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Notable Quotes

• Kelsey Snelling [08:21]: “Seth didn't have another person he could talk to that he trusted.”
• Dr. Rachel Milner [09:00]: “Fat kids are taught that they're not desirable, not. And I'm not talking about for any kind of dating relationship, I'm talking about friendships.”
• Stacy Toth [33:13]: “I wholeheartedly believe that that happened because of the roots that took place at Camp Shane and the belief that my value, my self worth, was so low.”
• Seth Kwitko [37:26]: “My hope is that I'm not just healing myself, but I'm gonna get others to start healing as well.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Camp Shame sheds light on the profound and lasting impact that abusive environments can have on vulnerable youth. By bringing these stories to the forefront, Kelsey Snelling not only seeks justice for survivors but also aims to dismantle the toxic cultural narratives that make such abuse possible.

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Resources and Support:

If you or someone you know has experienced similar abuse, please reach out to professional support services or contact Camp Shame through their Instagram to share your story.

Transcript

[Kelsey Snelling]

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[Kelsey Snelling]

This episode contains mention of sexual abuse against children. Listener discretion is advised. Please check the show notes for resources. Summer Love the subject of countless songs, movies and poems, it's an experience many young people spend all year dreaming about. For shaners especially, summertime was a chance for an epic romance in picturesque woods with no parents around and self confidence growing by the day. Young love, of course, blossomed as counselors we were actually told by head staff that the dating scene at Shane could get a little crazy. When I first heard this, I thought it was kind of cute. Campers had the chance to experience relationships like so many of their thinner peers did at school. But what I didn't fully realize was how high the stakes were. Some of these kids felt like their limited weeks at camp were their only chance to experience love. And that scarcity mindset encouraged some not so ideal encounters, leaving campers in a place of precarity and even danger. This is camp shame. I'm Kelsey Snelling. Today we're delving into some of the more serious allegations levied against camp. When Selma Attenberg founded Camp Shane, she knew romance could play a huge role in its allure. It's why she wanted to make a CO at camp in the first place.

[Seth Kwitko]

You know, you'd have like your first.

[Ariel Berger]

Boyfriend or girlfriend at camp.

[Kelsey Snelling]

I had my very first kiss during a movie night.

[Seth Kwitko]

I'd be walking by and all of a sudden I'd hear hi, Seth from 30 Girls.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Remember Seth Kwitko, the Shaner from the 80s who was trying to impress a girl at a skating rink and got fat? Shamed by a full ass grown adult while at camp, Seth found himself surrounded by kids with a history of similar experiences. Away from the haters and more importantly, away from the watchful eye of parents. He and his fellow campers were excited to finally get their flirt on.

[Ariel Berger]

You had a lot of kids that.

[Seth Kwitko]

Were filled with hormones and probably didn't have a chance outside of camp and you let them loose amongst kids who they're filled with hormones and they're gonna go at it. And there was a lot of that going on.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Campers often looked forward to hook up opportunities like free play. A daily camp wide hour of unstructured co ed mingling. And that's where all the action happened. That's where people met people. That's where we were allowed to hang out. That's Ariel Berger, a camper from the 1990s. Free play was the only period of the day that campers got to use their time however they pleased. This is where I first got banaka and gum and you would trade it and you know, you'd try and find an area and make out. Prime make out spots. Might be a bush behind a building or on an empty bench like the ones on Lovers Lane. The campgrounds were vast and you already know shaners were crafty. The staff did set up a few rules. Occasional hand holding hugs and pecks on the cheek were permitted. Anything beyond that was not. But to enforce those rules, counselors had to first find the misbehaving campers. And to do this, they went on patrol.

[Meryl Winter]

So we had this nookie patrol.

[Kelsey Snelling]

That's Meryl Winter, a staff member from 2003 to 2014.

[Meryl Winter]

At first, the counselors, they loved being on this patrol. I mean, they just loved it. They would get creative. They'd bring flashlights and alarms and, you know, and as soon as they would catch kids, they'd say, hand check, you know, like, find your hands. And, you know, And a few of them caught kids in very hairy situations. And I wanted to make sure the kids were safe.

[Kelsey Snelling]

And then there were the movie nights. Movie nights, which were held on the hills of Shane beneath the Catskills stars, were the perfect place for romance. Now, while some kids watched the mighty ducks or heavyweights for the hundredth time, others made their move first. Kisses, hand holding, innocent cuddling all happened on these hills, but often it went further. Here's Stacy Toth. She was a camper for two summers in the 90s.

[Stacy Toth]

And I remember specifically there were movie nights where it was like on a hill, and it would happen at twilight, which meant that as the movie was going, it would get dark, and kids would have sexual experiences on that hill that were not monitored and not restricted the way that they were supposed to be for camp rules or whatever, right? Like, let's not have sex acts in public. But everybody was. And if you were with someone, then it was expected that you do things or when you have movie night.

[Kelsey Snelling]

For every staff member who tried to protect campers, there was a counselor who ignored the hookups. According to our sources, there were instances where staff members flat out encouraged them. Seth remembers a time he got away with sneaking around with his girlfriend because his counselor was sneaking around, too.

[Seth Kwitko]

I actually remember going to my camp girlfriend's cabin in the middle of the night, and I remember coming back, and as I was walking back into my cabin, there was a female counselor walking out the back door of our cabin.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Sneaking around is what shaners did best, be it for food, general mischief, or a romantic encounter. As a counselor, I did my best to keep an eye on my kids. The but I wasn't always prepared for their eagerness. And eagerness is exactly what happens when you put a bunch of kids together who have been told by the outside world that they're undesirable.

[Dr. Rachel Milner]

These teens had been taught that they weren't going to be viewed as attractive if they're in larger bodies or that People are not gonna want to date them. And many of these teens probably did sadly experience that.

[Kelsey Snelling]

This is Dr. Rachel Milner, a licensed psychologist and fat activist.

[Dr. Rachel Milner]

Many higher weight teens have had the experience of not being invited to prom, or not being asked out on a date, or being told that they're not attractive. And so when they were in an environment where that was removed from the equation and they were seen as attractive and people wanted took interest in them, I think that probably led to a lot of the consensual interactions between the teens at camp.

[Kelsey Snelling]

The mindset Dr. Milner talks about also led some campers toward experiences they maybe weren't ready for, which were sometimes not fully consensual. I spoke with many former campers who felt pressure to cross lines they they weren't ready to cross. In my interviewing, I heard stories of campers who entered relationships through coercion. Some were influenced by social hierarchy, some by low self esteem and the desperation that accompanies it. Some experiences were even wrapped up in Camp Shane currency, where contraband foods were traded for sex acts. I didn't see any of these exchanges when I was a counselor, but I was told multiple stories during my reporting, including one of a camper being offered chocolate if she allowed a boy to grope her breast. These coercive relationships didn't just happen between campers. There were also camper counselor relationships at Shane, which happened so often that they were given a nickname.

[Meryl Winter]

We used to call them CCRs. Camper Counselor Relationships.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Former staffer Meryl Winter.

[Meryl Winter]

Again, those were hard to control too, because the campers would see, especially the older ones. We had a young adult program. Some of the counselors were the same age as the campers.

[Kelsey Snelling]

These CCRs could refer to a relationship between two legally consenting adults. A 20 year old counselor and an 18 year old camper, for example, or sometimes not. Like a 16 year old camper and an older counselor. Either way, they were inappropriate and represented a big power imbalance. To reiterate, CCRs were not allowed and the head staff did their best to stop them. But they were often really difficult to police.

[Meryl Winter]

You know, you tell a 19 year old they can't date someone they think is pretty or handsome or whatever, but we did and we'd have to let people go. Also, we'd have to let people go if that happened. And we would tell them constantly, please do not do this, be responsible. But it would happen.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Many campers told me stories about their relationships at Shane. Some were lovely and uplifting and fully consensual. Others Felt a bit gray. And then there were stories that no one should ever have to live through. Former camper Seth Kwitko and I got to know each other a lot during the making of this project. I first heard about his story from another former camper and got in touch with Seth in November of 2020. I've interviewed him formally on three separate occasions. I've met his whole family and we've spoken on the phone many times since then. Seth is one of the sweetest and most charismatic people I've met. And what happened to him at camp is devastating. When Seth first arrived at camp Shane in 1983, he was almost 11 years old. He was excited to be there and to meet his bunkmates. That's also when he met his counselor, Peter. Here's Seth.

[Ariel Berger]

It was his first summer and my first summer, and he was actually one of the counselors in my cabin. Everyone liked him. He was generally a nice counselor, got involved with the kids. He was overweight himself, so he had that sort of connection to all of us.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Seth was happy to have a counselor who understood his weight struggles and accepted him for who he was. And since Peter was 19 at the time, Seth felt he was less like an adult and more of a cool older brother.

[Ariel Berger]

He made me forget about being away from home.

[Seth Kwitko]

He made me enjoy the camp more. He made me feel less homesick. He made me feel comfortable. He did what I thought a counselor should do.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Peter listened to, he was friendly. And he even brought Seth snacks. Which technically is not exactly what a weight loss camp counselor should do, but from a camper's perspective, best counselor ever.

[Seth Kwitko]

He would ply me with food. As we know in camp, food is currency. Food is a bargaining chip. So he would bring me, he would sneak in things and he would give them to me.

[Kelsey Snelling]

The following year, in 1984, Peter became the camp's drama director. This meant that he started spending his days in the stadium away from the day to day activities. The stadium soon became a commonplace for him and Seth to hang out.

[Seth Kwitko]

It was in the stadium where they held the plays. It was a covered area, big covered area. They would have benches and they had a stage at one end. And on either side were offices. And the main office was if you were looking at the stage to the left. And they had a desk and they had costumes and everything. And there was a way to crawl underneath the stage from one side to the other so that you could go off here and appear over there. And I would spend time in there and he would sneak me some cookies. Or whatever it may be.

[Kelsey Snelling]

On top of sneaking Seth food, Peter used his power as drama director to score Seth some additional perks.

[Seth Kwitko]

I always hated swimming, so any opportunity I could get to get out of swimming was a good opportunity. So when he let me get out.

[Ariel Berger]

Of activities because I had to rehearse.

[Seth Kwitko]

Or whatever, I was fine with it.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Seth says that Peter also made him the star of the shows, boosting his confidence and making him feel even more important. One former counselor I interviewed said that Seth was Peter's favorite. At first, the special treatment was great, but then conversations with Peter started to get inappropriate.

[Seth Kwitko]

That counselor's gay.

[Ariel Berger]

Did you know that?

[Seth Kwitko]

And then things would sort of evolve from there. So he would start, you know, chipping away at those. At those barriers, and the conversations would become more and more sexual. And then eventually it was, well, I think you would like it, Seth. I think you would be into it. From the first time I met you, I knew that you would be into this. I knew. You know, I think it was him admitting that he was bisexual or, you know, he had had sex with men or something along those lines. And then it was. I knew you were. I knew others were, but I knew from the moment I saw you that you would be into it.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Seth was shocked and uncomfortable. But by this point in their friendship, the two were really close. Seth says he didn't realize it at the time, but Peter had isolated him from the other campers, and he didn't really have another person he could talk to that he trusted. So they continued to spend time together. And according to Seth, Peter continued to push his boundaries from there. Things escalated quickly. A warning to listeners. What Seth is about to say may be hard to hear.

[Seth Kwitko]

And he just kept chipping away and chipping away and chipping away. And I really wish I could remember how it started, but eventually we.

[Stacy Toth]

We.

[Seth Kwitko]

Had mutual masturbation, and it sort of escalated from there. He would masturbate me, and then he would want to kiss me, and then he would do fellatio, and then it just kept going. And it was more of the same, of him telling me that this is what I want, and this is. He knew it and don't tell anyone, and it would just continue. And of course, afterwards, after we were finished, a wave of guilt and emotion would come over me, and I would say to myself, what am I doing? Because on one hand, I was young, I was a hormonal teen, and it felt good. And all this confusion was in my head, why should this feel good? It shouldn't feel good. And Then guilt and anger and sadness, just a whole groundswell of emotions would come over me as these things were happening. And then, for some reason, fear. I don't know, I would go back. I would go back, and he would do the same thing.

[Kelsey Snelling]

The stress and confusion weighed on Seth. He felt ashamed of what was happening, but was afraid to talk to anyone about it. He wanted to forget it. And when summer ended, he went home as if everything was fine.

[Ariel Berger]

I just was afraid to let my parents know something was wrong. And it could have been very easy to just say, I don't want to go back. But it was almost kind of like, you know, hey, no, nothing's wrong.

[Seth Kwitko]

Nothing's wrong.

[Ariel Berger]

No, I want to go. I want to go. I want to keep going every year. No, no problem. No problem. I mean, one of the big reasons why I would go back was just to kind of get a sense of feeling normal, you know, not sitting on the sidelines and being picked last. Or even if you're picked last, you still don't get to participate. So, you know, there was a sense of some normalcy, you know, feeling what normal kids might feel. And then after, you know, a lot of this stuff happened. I think it was just a way to keep myself busy, to kind of escape.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Determined to feel normal again, Seth put on a brave face and returned to camp for another year. Unfortunately, so did Peter. Seth was worried, but at first, things didn't seem so bad.

[Ariel Berger]

Abuse is not linear. There were times where he and I would just be pals, but then the.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Abuse would begin again.

[Ariel Berger]

And then there were times where, you know, he was taking advantage of me. And then, you know, I was angry. I was angry at him, I was angry at myself. And then, you know, I didn't want to be there. But then at the same time I was there, I was confused about sexuality.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Seth felt trapped in this cycle and says Peter continued to push things further.

[Seth Kwitko]

I think the last straw was when I was in the office on the side of the stage. I was hungry because here we are in fat camp, and I was looking for some food. Maybe he had it tucked away in a closet somewhere, like he would do hide food every now and then. He wasn't there at the time. And there was a counselor in there, a female counselor. And I went into the closet, and I grabbed this paper bag, and I opened up the bag, and inside were condoms and Vaseline. And I asked her, what is this for? And she rather almost gleefully said, this is for you. And I wasn't sure at the time what that meant. So I put it back and I left.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Seth knew he had to end it. The next time he went back to the stadium, he confronted Peter.

[Seth Kwitko]

And then I came back one last time and he was there and he was trying to kiss me. He was trying to, you know, perform oral sex. And I just sort of, I had that wave of emotions coming over me as he was doing things and it, for whatever reason, it just snapped in my head at that moment that this is not right. And I said, no, that's it, I'm out of here. And I pulled up my shorts and I walked out. And after that it was, you know, I started becoming a lot more withdrawn and I wouldn't go near him. I had enough at that point. But at the same time I felt now I was damaged.

[Kelsey Snelling]

And so at this point you're 11.

[Seth Kwitko]

I think I was actually 13.

[Kelsey Snelling]

My heart shatters for Seth knowing that he felt damaged in that moment. Fear, shame and guilt are all common feelings among survivors of abuse. And the shame was made worse when Seth started to think that word of his relationship had gotten out.

[Ariel Berger]

You know, I remember I was hanging out in a like one of the, it was like B10 or something, B9. And we were just hanging out and some, one of the, one of these counselors was like, Seth, I heard you were gay. Like just out of the blue.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Seth was terrified of people finding out what Peter had done to him. He just wanted things to go back to normal. And wasn't that the whole point of going to Camp Shane, to feel like a regular kid so he didn't report it. In the few years that followed, Seth's history with Peter haunted him.

[Ariel Berger]

I didn't know what to think of myself and I was afraid to let, let on anything. But you know, I was also kind of self destructive. I was, I was going out and partying when I was in high school and drinking a lot and doing drugs and doing horrible in school and you.

[Seth Kwitko]

Know, sort of that self medication, anything.

[Ariel Berger]

I guess to get your mind away from what was, what had happened.

[Kelsey Snelling]

It wasn't until a few summers later Seth began to process that what had happened to him was not his fault.

[Seth Kwitko]

It didn't mean I was gay, it didn't mean I was straight. It didn't mean I was bi. It meant that I succumbed to an abuser who took advantage of my dislike of swimming, took advantage of my low self esteem, took advantage of the situation where we were and just used it, all those feelings against me to gaslight me, to groom me, to get me where he wanted.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Seth was finally able to call it abuse, but still could not forget it. In the late 80s, he returned to Camp Shane yet again and was relieved when he heard Peter would not be back. Seth had a camp girlfriend that summer, and for the very first time, he told someone his story. Then one day while Seth was in the nutrition room, his girlfriend saw Peter walk into the stadium. Here's Seth's recollection of what happened.

[Seth Kwitko]

I remember the girl I was with, she burst into the nutrition room and she says, he's here. And I ran out with her and I saw that he was there in the stadium. And then I remember the owner, maybe it was David, and a couple of the head counselors. And we were telling them what was going on and that he had done this.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Another counselor told us she spoke to Peter after this incident and that he had told her that David sent him home quietly and did not notify the police. This despite a New York State law mandating that all child abuse must be reported. Seth was not the only person Peter was accused of abusing. In 2021, another former camper filed a lawsuit against Camp Shane alleging that Peter sexually abused him during an excursion to a swimming hole in 1984. The camper claimed that Camp Shane was negligent in hiring Peter and giving him access to children. Camp Shane denied these claims. The case was later discontinued after an apparent settlement. Sadly, this was not the beginning or the end of sexual abuse at Camp Shane, and it would not be the last time allegations were mishandled. While talking to former Shaners, I learned that allegations of abuse were not isolated to only the Ferndale campus. These abuses also happened in the satellite locations. In 2017, a 15 year old autistic boy was sent to Camp Shane's Georgia campus. According to a 2020 lawsuit against Camp Shane, the family was told by the camp's director that their child would have supervision in his living area. They alleged that the camp did not have enough counselors to uphold that promise and that the Georgia camp director notified David Attenberg that the campus was understaffed. According to the lawsuit, no action was taken to fix the staffing problem and the child was left unsupervised in a dorm with a camper with known aggressive behavior. The family further alleged that their son was raped by his roommate multiple times. According to the suit, the boy was only able to verbalize what had happened to him. Months later, when asked if he wanted to return to Shane for another summer, the family sued Camp Shane for damages. The case was settled out of court. According to the family's complaint, the offending camper pled guilty to one felony count of second degree cruelty to children. Before the settlement, a question abuse survivors often hear is why didn't you come forward? Commonly there is fear of retaliation. There's also the stigma and shame associated with abuse. It can be very difficult for victims to tell someone about their abuse and even harder when they don't think they will be believed. And for Shaners, there's an added layer here.

[Dr. Rachel Milner]

If you look at the way that fatness is represented in our culture as early as Disney movies, the fat person is usually the villain or the fat person is lonely. And the representation around fatness that kids see starts so young.

[Kelsey Snelling]

That's Dr. Rachel Milner.

[Dr. Rachel Milner]

Again, fat kids are taught that they're not desirable, not. And I'm not talking about for any kind of dating relationship, I'm talking about friendships, right? Or to be included in activities like they're told they're going to be isolated or be left out. And so of course then that impacts self confidence and self esteem. And then kids can feel like if somebody does show them attention or interest, they're supposed to just be grateful for it and because they already feel like they don't deserve it.

[Kelsey Snelling]

This is why the sexual culture at Shane was so different from other summer camps. That feeling that bigger bodied people need to be grateful for attention makes them more susceptible to this type of abuse. On top of that, there is a very real worry that others may not believe them when they report sexual misconduct or assault.

[Dr. Rachel Milner]

I've also worked with a lot of adults who were higher weight kids and adolescents who did experience sexual trauma. And they talk about the fear that if they did speak up, they wouldn't be believed. And I can, you know, it breaks my heart when they talk about that. And if you look at so many stories through the MeToo movement and.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Anytime.

[Dr. Rachel Milner]

Somebody who is in a higher weight body talks about being sexually abused, there is something in the media about, well, why would somebody want to abuse them? Or that can't be true. And it's horrifying that that's what happens, but it is what happens.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Abusers may even weaponize these concepts to further manipulate their victims. Here's former camper Stacy Toth.

[Stacy Toth]

Again, when you feel valued, you're able to then stand up for yourself. When abuse is coming your way, when manipulation is coming your way, when these things are happening, you feel like someone will listen to you. Because for me what happened is my self worth just tanked so much that then when I Left Camp Shade and my teenage years in high school, I was raped. And the person said, go ahead and who are you going to tell? Who's going to believe you? No one would believe that I was interested in you. And I believed that, and I did nothing.

[Kelsey Snelling]

For years, Stacy carried feelings which were reinforced at Camp Shayne, that her body only had value when she was thin. And this same idea was used against her when she was sexually assaulted.

[Stacy Toth]

I wholeheartedly believe that that happened because of the roots that took place at Camp Shane and the belief that my value, my self worth, was so low.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Tragically, fat women are significantly less likely to be believed about sexual abuse than thin women. This has been reflected in multiple studies. Stacy felt she should have been grateful to be with anyone because of her larger body. It took Stacy years to heal from her abuse. The healing journey for Seth was also hard. In the years following camp, Seth dove into a deep depression.

[Ariel Berger]

I wanted to tell both my parents, but I was scared, and I was scared to tell my mother because I wasn't sure how she was going to react. And of course, there were so many times where I wanted to just blurt it out, but I was. I didn't know what would come of it. Are they gonna say, I don't believe you? Are they gonna say, why didn't you tell me sooner? Are they gonna say, I'm gonna kill the guy? How could you go back to that camp after this happened? I didn't know what to expect. Depression was a big part of that lack of trust, you know, self harm in the sense. Not that I was like cutting myself, but, you know, I just didn't care about my appearance. I didn't do well in school. I tried to make friends with people and I just didn't, you know, I still kept to myself regardless, you know, made friends, found excuses why I couldn't hang out, made or. I had this apartment. I was on my own. I was an absolute. I mean, the apartment was a wreck because I just didn't care, you know, and I did nothing to help myself or, you know, I would fail before I started to avoid the pain of failure, that kind of thing. Had a couple of relationships here and there, but nothing really meaningful. So I just sort of. I did just enough, I guess, to live another day for a long time, you know, and then. Then met my wife. And that's sort of when things changed.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Well into his adult years, Seth opened up to his then girlfriend about what happened at camp.

[Ariel Berger]

And then one day she's like, you know, I'll Tell you my deepest, darkest secret. So she told me the whole deal. And then I was like, When I was 12, I was sexually abused. And she's like, wow, you know, like, she wasn't thinking. That was like my deepest, darkest secret, you know, she understood. This is me telling her because I needed healing.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Then in 2019, something caught Seth's attention. His wife told him that New York state had just passed the Child Victims act, or cva. Prior to the act, any victim of childhood sexual abuse could sue for damages only until they were 23 years old. The CVA extended the statute of limitations to the age of 55. It also granted a one year window to file a civil action of damages with no age limit. With the passage of this law, Seth knew it was time to publicly tell his story and bring Camp Shane to account. In 2020, Seth filed a lawsuit against the camp for damages. And he knew that this undertaking would require him to finally tell his mother. 35 years after that summer.

[Ariel Berger]

You know, I said, mom, I got something to tell you. And then I remember we were standing out in front of her house and we were walking around, and I was like, listen, do you remember when I was at camp? And then I proceeded to tell her everything that happened.

[Stacy Toth]

I was 75 when I found out.

[Kelsey Snelling]

This is Karla Kwitko, Seth's mom, said.

[Stacy Toth]

To me, I was molested. I said, what? What do you mean, molested? Did somebody touch you? You know, and then he, you know, said, it was at Cam Shane. And I was like, what do you mean? I mean, it's like it hits you, but you're not ready for it. You don't. It's like, I can't even explain it.

[Ariel Berger]

Her first reaction was, believe it or not, of guilt. I should have protected you. I should have known. And I said, mom, I didn't say anything to you. You wouldn't have known. And she kind of took it hard, and she was really, really upset about it, that she felt like she failed me as a parent. And I was like, no, you didn't. You know, you didn't know.

[Kelsey Snelling]

And that guilt quickly transformed into a profound sense of loss.

[Stacy Toth]

Then I remember one day I have this bowl on my table, and it has pictures of, you know, the family and vacation, whatever. And I saw this picture of Seth at Cam Shane. He must have been around 11. And I just. When I saw that, I just. I started to cry. It hit me what he did to my little kid, Beautiful little child, what.

[Kelsey Snelling]

He did to him.

[Stacy Toth]

What he.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Four years later, Seth's case was Settled out of court. Now he's finally able to breathe a little lighter.

[Ariel Berger]

Telling my wife was huge. Doing the lawsuit was huge. Those are all, these are all things that have really helped me along my way. Of course, going for therapy and speaking about, you know, the effects, the long term effects of what happened and that the more I speak, the more cathartic it becomes, the more I open up to people because there's no shame, there's no embarrassment. My hope is that I'm not just healing myself, but I'm gonna get others to start healing as well. That they know that what happened to them, what happened to me was not their fault and that there's nothing to be ashamed of. And there's, you know, there's only moving forward and all these things are going to be behind me and there's no reason to look back anymore. They'll never go away. But, you know, like I said, with the kind of like those stages of grief, you just, you know, you accept it, you. You understand that it happened and you just keep moving forward.

[Kelsey Snelling]

By the time Seth filed his suit in 2020, the Camp Shane campgrounds had already been sold off. David was drowning in lawsuits, and Shaners both mourned and celebrated what was surely the end of Camp Shane's 50 year reign. But actually a brand new chapter was just beginning. All it took was a little change of scenery and Camp Shane was back in the game. Only this time, they were being watched.

[Ariel Berger]

There were campers leaving or counselors were leaving, kids were, were getting sick, kids were getting hurt. They shut the camp down.

[Kelsey Snelling]

And what were you feeling when you saw this or heard about this?

[Ariel Berger]

This can't be used against me in a court of law. A little schadenfreude, you know. Good. I'm glad. But at the same time, I said to myself, man, I wish that was me. I would have felt good if. If I was the one who caused that to happen.

[Kelsey Snelling]

Next time on the final episode of Camp Shame. It was something out of a horror movie.

[Stacy Toth]

The way it felt when I pulled up. There was not an adult anywhere to be seen.

[Dr. Rachel Milner]

Nothing about that camp was right.

[Kelsey Snelling]

We reached out to David Attenberg, Zippora Janowski and Peter for comment. At the time of this recording, we have not received a reply. Camp Shame is a production of I Heart Podcasts. I'm your host, Kelsey Snelling. Camp Shame is produced by Brittany Martinez, Taylor Williamson, Sarah Schleed, Lucy Jones and Aaliyah Yates Grau. Our editor is Courtney Hommeister with additional editorial support from Lindsey Cradlewill. And Grace Lynch. Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rutter and Melissa Kelsey Snelling. For iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Christina Everett. Fact checking done by Madeline Gore, Lucy Jones, Paloma Moreno Jimenez, Lauren Williams and Fiona Pestana. Our theme music is produced by Shaun Patel. Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram Ampsho that's with an M. If you or anyone you know went to Camp Shane, reach out with your camp stories.

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[Kelsey Snelling]

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[Kelsey Snelling]

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