Assassination on Campus | Should UVU Memorialize Charlie Kirk?

Summary

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Campus Files: Scandals, Secrets & Crimes at American Universities

Episode: Assassination on Campus | Should UVU Memorialize Charlie Kirk?
Date: April 1, 2026
Host: Ian Mont

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the controversial aftermath of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, the co-founder of Turning Point USA, on Utah Valley University’s (UVU) campus. It investigates how students, faculty, and state leaders grappled with the trauma of the shooting and the intensely divisive question: Should UVU memorialize Charlie Kirk? Through firsthand accounts, interviews, and analysis, the episode examines the campus climate, the political and moral implications of memorialization, and broader questions of who and what colleges choose to honor.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Assassination and Initial Aftermath

• Charlie Kirk’s Background and Death
  • Kirk became famous for debating college students on polarizing issues, aligning with the far right, and promoting conspiracy theories (01:41).
  • He was shot and killed while speaking at UVU on September 10, 2025, during his “American Comeback Tour” (02:45).
• Immediate Shock on Campus
  • Matthew Franke, a student journalist, describes witnessing the campus chaos minutes after the shooting and switching into reporter mode (05:31, 06:10).
  • “There were people that were screaming on their phones with their loved ones and, you know, just kind of like breaking down into tears.” – Matthew Franke [05:31]
  • Campus was shut down; students and staff struggled to process the terrifying event (07:43, 08:12).
  • UVU canceled classes for the week, bringing in counseling and support resources for students (09:58, 14:22).

2. Rapid Push for a Memorial

• University’s Announcement
  • Less than two weeks after Kirk’s death, UVU announced plans to form a committee to develop a memorial and sought student input (08:54).
  • Many were surprised and unsettled by how quickly the idea surfaced (14:50).
• Fundraising and Political Involvement
  • A GiveSendGo fundraiser for the memorial was launched by Utah State Senator Daniel McKay, seeking $150,000 (15:17).
  • GiveSendGo’s reputation as a favored platform for right-wing causes raised further controversy (15:28).
  • Senator McKay compared the Kirk memorial to memorials for victims of police violence like George Floyd, sparking debate (17:54).

3. Campus and Community Reactions

• Divided Sentiments
  • Students were left to navigate a deeply divided campus culture, with some grieving and others angry at the suggestion of honoring Kirk (13:29, 15:17).
  • Student feedback ranged from sympathy to strong opposition.
• Memorializing Controversy
  • “You can’t bring [people] together around a divisive figure… so how do you do it right if they're going to do something?” – Mara Carabello, political advisor (16:47)
  • Many felt the proposed memorial risked canonizing a figure who had promoted harmful rhetoric (17:48).
• Safety and Freedom of Expression
  • Some LGBTQ and minority students felt less safe as right-wing “tourists” began visiting the site (24:14).
  • Open expression was stifled; many were hesitant to share opinions out of fear of retaliation (21:00).

4. The Memorial Debate: What Should Be Honored?

• The Nature of Memorials
  • Debate emerged over what, exactly, would be memorialized—Kirk himself, or ideals of free speech and debate (22:30, 23:07).
  • Comparison made to debates over Confederate monuments and the importance of context in memorialization (23:16).
  • “General consensus actually kind of seems to be like, well, we agree that it wouldn’t necessarily be good to create something with his likeness.” – Matthew Franke [23:07]
• Long-Term Questions
  • The episode raises the unresolved issue of how history will judge Kirk’s role a decade or two from now, cautioning against hasty action (25:00).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Witnessing the Chaos
  • “I just saw Charlie Kirk get assassinated right in front of me.” – Eyewitness via Matthew Franke [05:31]
• On Campus Memorial Activities
  • “There were people putting together, like, a little, you know, memorial type stuff...writing chalk and stuff all over campus. And then that already was really just kind of powerful, seeing people come together and say, like, this was a terrible thing.” – Matthew Franke [13:11]
• Processing Trauma and Togetherness
  • “After tragedies like this, we all kind of realize that we are all children of God...but I'm honestly disgusted that everyone's comparing him to Christ.” – Katie Ring [21:59]
• The Dilemma of Memorialization
  • “If it was something that were to depict his likeness, I think that would kind of stir up a little bit more division across campus.” – Matthew Franke [20:36]
  • “We have to ask ourselves the question about what it is we’re memorializing. There was a really interesting quote from a student who was like, ‘I feel like we’re canonizing this person, not talking about the ideals’.” – Mara Carabello [16:47]
• On Lasting Impact
  • “A memorial centered around a person valorizes them and all that comes with them—the good, the bad and the ugly.” – Ian Mont [23:16]
• On Campus Atmosphere and Safety
  • “The site of a murderer [can] become a tourist attraction...many of the tourists motivated to visit UVU are also the sort of people whose presence can feel dangerous to some students.” – Ian Mont [24:14]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:41–02:45 — Introduction to the assassination of Charlie Kirk
• 03:52–08:12 — Matthew Franke’s account of discovering and reporting the shooting
• 08:54–09:58 — UVU’s announcement of a potential memorial
• 14:22–15:28 — Political involvement: fundraising and committee formation
• 16:08–17:48 — Mara Carabello’s response and the complexities of memorializing controversial figures
• 18:26–19:18 — Comparisons to George Floyd and broader symbolism
• 21:00–21:28 — Discussion of student protest and campus fear
• 22:57–23:16 — Student consensus on the form a potential memorial should take
• 24:07–24:41 — UVU becoming a tourist attraction and its impact on minority students
• 25:00–26:00 — Reflecting on memorialization and the passage of time

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Tone and Language

True to the “Campus Files” style, the episode balances investigative journalism with compassion for its subjects. The tone is simultaneously probing, sensitive, and deeply aware of campus complexities, letting direct quotes and on-the-ground reporting carry much of the emotional weight. The hosts and guests are candid yet measured, careful not to inflame but to reflect the real anxieties and ethical conundrums faced by students and administrators.

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Conclusion

This episode dives deeply into the intersection of campus trauma, free speech, public memory, and political polarization. It vividly brings to life the confusion and pain following Charlie Kirk’s assassination, the fraught debate over his potential memorialization, and the broader issues of who (and what) universities choose to honor or erase.

The question posed—“Should UVU memorialize Charlie Kirk?”—remains unresolved, offering listeners a textured portrait of a campus and a country wrestling with grief, division, and history.

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Transcript

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[Katie Ring]

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[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] Charlie Kirk, the late co founder of Turning Point USA, made a name for himself by debating college students on topics like access to ab, gun control, LGBTQ rights and more. He aligned himself with the far right, openly criticized civil rights and promoted a number of false conspiracy theories. But he managed to gain a substantial following online and built relationships with powerful figures like President Trump. In early 2025, shortly after Trump took office for the second time, Kirk and Turning Point USA launched the American Comeback Tour, where Kirk would travel across the country hosting forums at what he described as, quote, one of the last strongholds of the left, the American University. But the tour was cut short on September 10, 2025 when Charlie Kirk was shot in the neck during an event at Utah Valley University. He died the same day.

[Podcast Hosts (Susie Welch / Anna Garcia)]

Breaking News Political activist and conservative media personality Charlie Kirk shot and killed while speaking at an event in Utah Valley

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

University this afternoon, in the weeks following Kirk's death, public figures across the US Grappled with how to handle Kirk's extremely controversial legacy. At Utah Valley University, the site of Kirk's murder, students and the state as a whole have been thrown into a complicated debate of their own. I'm ian mont. This week on campus assassination on campus. Should uvu memorialize charlie kirk? What is up, cavemen? Welcome back to Cave tv. We've got a lot of amazing stuff for you guys today. We'll be hanging out with student council, not to mention an interview with Andrew Sabato. And we're going to be playing some fun games. I'm Matt. I'm Andrew. And you're watching Cave tv.

[Matthew Franke]

I went to American Fork High School and we had a student broadcast program. We called it Cave TV because our mascot was a caveman.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

This is Matthew Franke. He's currently a student at Utah Valley University, or UVU for short. UVU is a public school in Orem, a suburb of Provo. It's not officially a religious school, but being in Utah means it does have a pretty spiritual student body. It's only 10 minutes from Brigham Young University, after all. As for Matthew, back in high school, he helped produce Cave tv, the student news broadcast for American Fork High School. He enjoyed it so much that when he arrived at UVU, he was quick to join the student newspaper, the UVU Review. Matthew joined the UVU Review as a reporter in the fall of 2023. He wrote a few pieces in his first year. A movie review, a piece about some great horror games to play around Halloween, and a more newsy piece about Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Entering the race for president in early 2023. And by the time he started his junior year, he'd been promoted to executive web producer. On the morning of September 10, 2025, Matthew had a job interview in Provo, a town right next to the UVU campus.

[Matthew Franke]

I had interviewed with the company over in Provo. It was just like today, actually Wednesday afternoon. And so once I was done with that, I was going to take a public Transport over to UVU.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Matthew made it back to campus just before 12:30pm

[Matthew Franke]

yeah, when I showed up, I didn't even realize what was happening immediately. I saw, like, a lot of people. There's an underpass tunnel, and I saw, like, a lot of people coming out of it. So I was like, huh?

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

He couldn't recall it at the time, but Matthew had seen promos for a Turning Point USA event featuring Charlie Kirk to be held on campus that Afternoon,

[Matthew Franke]

I saw a friend of mine, and I was like, hey, you know, how's it going? Everything good? She's like, oh, well, there's an active shooter. You know, like, really dissociated. And so then that's when I kind of finally started to notice, like, there were people that were screaming on their phones with their loved ones and, you know, just kind of like breaking down into tears. And then I finally heard there's a guy off to my left in white T shirt kind of like, screaming into his phone. He's like, I'm not kidding, you know, I just saw Charlie Kirk get assassinated right in front of me.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Matthew was stunned, but after taking a beat to wrap his head around what was happening, he snapped into reporter mode.

[Matthew Franke]

I had just missed the shot by about two, three minutes. I kind of stewed on that for a second, and then I realized, oh, wait, I'm a student reporter. I should probably do something. So I always keep my press badge in my backpack. And so I pulled that out and kind of pulled it on. We have a teams channel. So when I threw on my lanyard, stuff like that, like, my first message I sent out was like, is everybody okay? You know, we kind of made sure everybody was okay and they were in a safe location.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Thankfully, Matthew was able to confirm that the UVU review staff were all safe and accounted for.

[Matthew Franke]

I went through the underpass towards the Fugal Gateway, which is. If you go directly through Fugal Gateway, you can get directly to the courtyard where it happened. And, yeah, I just ran into more people, and I started trying to interview people, but it was just. It was so chaotic. I mean, because as soon as I got over there, like, a lot of the police cars had started arriving and had the SWAT guys, who didn't even necessarily look like SWAT to me, immediately I thought they were like National Guard because they were all, like, decked out in camouflage.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

It was a much more chaotic situation to report on than Matthew had ever experienced. There had been hundreds of people on the scene. The shooter was still on the loose. Campus security, local police, and SWAT were working to cordon off evidence and track the shooter. And amidst all of this were hundreds of students and members of the public speaking, still terrified and reeling from what they had witnessed. Up until this point, Matthew's work as a student reporter had been a way to have fun. And now he's standing in the midst of an active crime scene.

[Matthew Franke]

So what I was really kicking myself for was I was trying to, like, take some photography and stuff like that, you know, for an article, story, but I just kind of couldn't bring myself to do it. I know as far as, like, being a journalist goes, like, there's nothing wrong with, you know, taking those kinds of photos, but taking photos of really terrible thing happening and people in their worst moments just felt really weird.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Matthew did manage to interview a number of witnesses, including one student who agreed to help him get off campus when he was ready to go.

[Matthew Franke]

So we kind of continued chatting on the way back to the train station. He was in the middle of processing a lot because I guess he himself had been in a few active shooter situations. And so this brought up a lot for him. And so I was like, oh, man. Yeah, this is really feeling real all of a sudden. And so he was telling me about his experience. He was in kind of like the front rows, and he was describing watching a man die, essentially.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

UVU canceled classes for the rest of the week after the shooting and gradually began reopening in mid September. On the week they returned, Matthew remembered seeing an announcement from UVU's administration.

[Matthew Franke]

It was the end of the week when they had made the announcement.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

The announcement read, following the assassination of Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University on September 10, 2025, the university is creating a committee to develop a memorial. It went on to invite students to share their thoughts and ideas. The wording made it seem like a memorial was a sure thing, but for some in the UVU community, this idea was unacceptable. After all, while Kirk was an advocate of free speech, he used his free speech to promote a number of harmful ideas, like the notion that some gun deaths are worth it or that Martin Luther King Jr. Was an awful person. He was also a proponent of conspiracy theories like the Great Replacement, which claims white people are intentionally being replaced as part of some sort of grand plan. So UVU students who less than two weeks earlier had experienced an active shooter and witnessed a murder, they now had to wrestle with the question of whether or not to build a memorial to Charlie Kirk.

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[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

The days after Charlie Kirk's death were intense for the staff of the UVU Review.

[Matthew Franke]

They cleared out campus and everything, and so we kind of started to regroup a little bit and try and figure out, okay, we've got to piece something together, like what do we know? Then we started getting like just a ton of emails and phone calls and stuff like that from other news organizations.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

By the time you're listening to this, you may have forgotten just how crazy things got.

[Matthew Franke]

So we knew it was going to be like a relatively big story because we were aware that he had like a, you know, pretty large social media presence. But it blowing up to the scope that it has, there was no way that we could have anticipated that at all.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Kirk was a controversial figure, to say the least, and his death triggered extreme reactions. Trump spoke in an address from the Oval Office, and ABC temporarily pulled Jimmy Kimmel's show After he claimed conservatives were trying to score points off Kirk's death. Kirk's death had become another battle in the ongoing culture war between the right and the left. But for Matthew and other students at uvu, the controversy and pain were much more close to home.

[Matthew Franke]

When I got back to campus, like, there were people putting together, like, a little, you know, memorial type stuff, like bringing photos and flowers and writing chalk and stuff all over campus. I was all over the courtyard. And then that already was really just kind of powerful, Seeing people come together and say, like, this was a terrible thing.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

The middle of September was very quiet on the UVU campus. Class had been temporarily canceled, but Matthew had a campus job, so he came back before most.

[Matthew Franke]

It was really dead for the first couple of days. People sort of trickled back in because nobody really wanted to be there after that had happened. And the whole atmosphere for a little while was just really kind of tense because everyone was kind of super on edge. You could kind of see, like, people were sort of looking down at their feet, not trying to make eye contact with anybody.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

While the country had erupted into a loud and intense fight over what to make of Charlie Kirk's death, the campus at UVU was quiet, tense, and on edge.

[Matthew Franke]

They've been working on doing some construction for the others at dance studio, and one of the construction workers, I'm pretty sure, dropped a sheet of plywood, but it had, like, a really loud bang. And so that kind of made everybody, like, jump a little bit, like, what's going on?

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

To their credit, UVU administrators quickly brought in resources for students. Free counseling, therapy, animals, walking buddies to safely escort students around campus, and even care stations with water, snacks, and resources available around campus.

[Matthew Franke]

You know, this is the kind of thing where some people, they either can process it pretty quickly and it kind of just hits them like a freight train immediately, or it kind of stews for a little while on the bills until, you know, they don't have any choice but to deal with it.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

But when Matthew saw the announcement about a possible memorial less than two weeks after Kirk's death, it seemed notable.

[Matthew Franke]

I was like, oh, that's interesting. I wonder what's going on there? So I started doing a little more digging. I tried to work with the university and kind of get what information I could.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

The announcement was a bit light on details. It gave the names of two people who would co chair the committee, a UVU trustee and a member of the state board of education.

[Matthew Franke]

As soon as I started doing a little bit of digging, I found the fundraiser. It was a GiveSendGo.com fundraiser and really kind of made me curious that it was Senator Daniel McKay who had launched it.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

GiveSendGo is a Christian and conservative alternative to GoFundMe, the crowdfunding website. It's got much looser content moderation and has been used to raise money for anything from January 6th defendants to Luigi Mangione, the alleged shooter of the United Healthcare CEO. The day after Kirk was shot, Utah State Senator Daniel McKay created a GiveSend Go fundraiser seeking $150,000 to fund a memorial to Charlie Kirk on the UVU campus. Shortly after McKay was invited to join the memorial committee at UVU, State Senator McKay visited campus and then spoke about the memorial in a podcast interview with kutv, the Salt Lake City CBS station.

[Daniel McKay]

The one thing I thought that was really interesting is because I then got to tour around the geography of the campus and what happened. And it was amazing. There were a number of people like, I didn't agree with Charlie, but I really appreciated the way he debates or has these conversations. We need more of them, that kind of stuff.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

I was enlightened listening to this interview. I was struck by the response of one of the co hosts, Mara Carabello. In addition to co hosting this show, Carabello is a political advisor in Utah. I think her response to State Senator McKay helps put into words the complicated feelings many on and off campus had about a possible memorial.

[Mara Carabello]

This was a private citizen, albeit a really influential private citizen. And this person was intentionally electrically charged. I don't want to say divisive because I don't want to put him in a negative. He was intentionally evocative. I mean, his very speech was set up to sort of be a challenge, right? Prove me wrong. So he lost his life and I wanna respect that. But I do know that when you're bringing people together, you can't bring em together around a divisive figure. And I do know that if we're going to represent Utah, the conversation needs to feel like it's broader to me. And we have to ask ourselves the question about what it is we're memorializing. There was a really interesting quote from a student who was like, I don't know, I feel like we're canonizing this person, not talking about the ideals in which maybe, maybe he represented. Again, I'm not trying to minimize him, but so how do you do it

[Podcast Hosts (Susie Welch / Anna Garcia)]

right if they're going to do something?

[Mara Carabello]

Well, one, you don't have the conversation two weeks out.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Carabello argues that this idea is way too early state Senator McKay responds, I

[Daniel McKay]

will just say the hard part is everybody's fine with a George Floyd Plaza. There's like eight George Floyd statues around various places in this country, Right? And we can all agree he was being arrested and not a great standup individual based on his criminal record. But for some reason, the country felt it was really, really important to memorialize him and where he died. And until not long ago, there was a mural here dedicated to him here in Utah.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

McKay and others have pointed to memorials of victims of police violence like George Floyd when criticized for their desire to memorialize Kirk in. In spite of the differences between the two figures, Floyd was not a politically active figure when he became the victim of a centuries long pattern of police abuses. He was memorialized not because of who he was, but because his death captured the public attention for a national crisis of racialized police violence. In contrast, Kirk openly and intentionally created conflict. He raised the political temperature by openly vilifying others, including George Floyd. Some of his last words accuse transgender Americans of being predisposed to violence. And in a political environment where so much is made of what ideas should and shouldn't be allowed on campus, it's a reasonable question to ask what good a memorial to Kirk would do and what ideas that memorial would promote.

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[Matthew Franke]

I try not to get reactions to that kind of stuff, you know, because you're supposed to remain as neutral and unbiased as possible.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

This is Matthew Franke, the UVU Review reporter.

[Matthew Franke]

But I guess my initial thought was kind of. Well, that worries me a little bit because if it was something that were to depict his lightness, I think that would kind of stir up a little bit more division across campus.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Shortly after the memorial idea was proposed, a group of students organized a protest. Matthew went to cover the protest.

[Matthew Franke]

It was surprisingly difficult to find people who were actually in support of it. There's also a good amount of people who are afraid about retaliation and sharing their opinion on the topic. Even if they are necessarily in support of it. Someone might not think that they're in support enough of it. And so the same goes for, you know, as well, for people who are against it as well. You know, there's a lot of people who are in the LGBTQ minority on campus as well, who don't feel safe expressing their opinions. For that reason.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Matthew and other UVU Review reporters have covered Kirk's death and the reaction on campus with a lot of care. In one case, they recorded anonymous interviews with students about their feelings returning to campus.

[Katie Ring]

Coming back to campus has been sad, but it has also been really cool to see the community. For the love and happiness of us coming together.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

I just say that this isn't the way. We need to come together as one and just be.

[Katie Ring]

I think after tragedies like this, we all kind of realize that we are all children of God and we're all united in Christ and we all want to help. And I think it's devastating what happened, but I'm honestly disgusted that everyone's comparing him to Christ. We all want to help and share and spread the love. And so there really has been a cool spirit here on campus. I think we've seen a lot of love and a lot of beauty and a lot of service, converse, talk.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

That's the only way we're going to make it as a society.

[Katie Ring]

As someone who grew up believing in Jesus Christ and someone who still tries to follow his principles, he was the complete opposite of who Jesus Christ is.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Of course, the campus was still reeling. People's opinions and thoughts on Kirk and his death were being closely policed, not just on campus, but across the country. Do you have a sense of which argument is winning out more on campus?

[Matthew Franke]

My gut is saying that it's in favor.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

Matthew thinks most students support some kind of memorial, but that doesn't mean they support any kind of memorial.

[Matthew Franke]

General consensus actually kind of seems to be like, well, we agree that it wouldn't necessarily be good to create something with his likeness.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

When considering the story, I can't help but think back to the push to take down Confederate memorials. This debate at UVU centers around more or less the same question of what we're comfortable memorializing. A memorial that centers Charlie Kirk's name and likeness is fundamentally different from one without because, like a statue to Robert E. Lee, a memorial centered around a person valorizes them and all that comes with them the good, the bad, and the ugly. With Robert E. Lee, there is far more bad and ugly than there is good. After all, he dedicated his life to ensuring slavery continued. Hence the push to take down memorials. Now, Charlie Kirk was no Confederate general, but there are many in this country and on the UVU campus that felt endangered by his rhetoric. And even without a memorial, the UVU campus has felt at times unsafe in the months since.

[Matthew Franke]

One of the things that's kind of had a lot of students on edge a little bit is that campus has become very much a tourist hotspot.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

It's not uncommon for the site of a murderer to become a tourist attraction. The Ford Theater where Abraham Lincoln was assassinated is a tourist attraction to this day. But what's unique about the situation is that many of the tourists motivated to visit UVU are also the sort of people whose presence can feel dangerous to some students, like transgender students, LGBTQ students, immigrants, or any of the communities that Kirk and his followers openly attacked and vilified.

[Matthew Franke]

So a lot of people have expressed feeling uncomfortable with people bringing their families to come see where it happened. You know, some of those minorities again, talking about how they feel less safe seeing a bunch of people wearing, you know, red Make America Great Again ball caps walking around campus.

[Narrator (Ian Mont)]

The memorial question is an incredibly complicated one, especially given that a memorial would make a temporary tourist attraction into a permanent one. It's true that September 10, 2025, was a monumental day in Utah and at UVU, and there are certainly lessons to be learned learned and takeaways to memorialize. But those lessons and takeaways are wrapped up in countless layers of meaning, which it will take many years to begin to unravel. The rush to memorialize Kirk began less than a day after his death, well before it can be looked at with the clear eyes only years of hindsight can give. Personally, I can't help but wonder how different Kirk's role in American history will look in 10 or 20 years, and whether a monument with would still feel like a good idea then. If you've got a story idea, we would love to hear about it. Send us an [e-mail] and if you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. So you Never miss an episode while you're there. Leave us a review and a five star rating. Campus Files is an Odyssey original podcast hosted by Margo Gray and Ian Mont. Our executive producers are Leah Rees, Dennis and Lloyd Lockridge. Campus Files is produced by Ian Mont and Margot Gray. Sound design and engineering by Andy Jaskowicz and Zach Clark. Legal support by Laura Berman and Melissa Jean. Original music by Davey Sumner. Special thanks to Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hilary Schaff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchison, Rose Sean Cherry, Curt Courtney and Lauren Vieira.

[Katie Ring]

Some crimes are so shocking, they don't just make headlines, they forever change our society. I'm Katie Ring, host of America's Most Infamous Crimes. Each week I take on one of the most notorious criminal cases. Each case unfolds across multiple episodes. Episodes released every Tuesday through Thursday, from the first sign that something was wrong to the moment the truth came out or didn't. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.