Contamination on Campus: What Did NC State Know About Poe Hall?

Summary

Campus Files: "Contamination on Campus: What Did NC State Know About Poe Hall?"

Podcast: Campus Files: Scandals, Secrets & Crimes at American Universities
Episode Air Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Marco Gray (with interviews and narrative contributions throughout)

---

Overview

This episode uncovers the shocking long-term toxic contamination inside Poe Hall at North Carolina State University (NC State), exploring its devastating effects on staff and students, the university’s long-standing inaction, and the evolving legal and media firestorm. Through firsthand stories and investigative reporting, the episode reveals how institutional neglect and secrecy led to a public health crisis, two decades of suffering, and a fight for accountability.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Stories: Unexplained Illnesses and Cancer Diagnoses

• Sandy Alford’s Mystery Illness (01:28–02:26):

  • Sandy, rarely ill, develops a strange rash and sudden asthma during her time as a graduate student at Poe Hall. Symptoms disappear after leaving, but decades later she learns of cancer clusters linked to the building.
  • Quote:

    "There was a purple red oval-shaped spot right over my thyroid on my neck and it slowly went up my neck and into my face and on my hands." – Sandy Alford (01:39)

• Christy Lewis’ Experience (03:33–08:45):

  • Christy, an undergrad at NC State (2007), describes Poe Hall’s drab architecture but says she was happy with her educational path—until she began suffering from night sweats, migraines, and was ultimately diagnosed with papillary thyroid cancer, then a rare angiosarcoma.
  • Quote:

    "I am not a huge headache person and I remember having horrible migraines at night and I would come home from school and I would have to go to bed by like, seven. Because I wanted to just be unconscious." – Christy Lewis (05:40)
    "So I told my sister... and she was like, you have to go get that checked out." (08:08)

• Kate Norwalk, Faculty Member’s Story (11:44–16:40):

  • Kate starts as an assistant professor in Poe Hall in 2015 and is healthy for years until, in 2022, she is diagnosed with breast cancer. A colleague is diagnosed at the same time, raising suspicions. Only after receiving news of the building’s closure due to PCBs does Kate realize the potential link.
  • Quote:

    "What are the odds, like, that both of us would get breast cancer at the same time?" – Kate Norwalk (16:20)

---

2. Discovery of Contamination and University Knowledge

• Sudden Building Closure & PCBs Identified (13:07–16:40):

  • Poe Hall closed abruptly over Thanksgiving 2023 due to “environmental contaminants”—specifically, PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls), now classified by the WHO as a Group 1 carcinogen.
  • Historical Context:
    • PCBs were used in 1970s construction, banned in 1979 after being found to be persistent and carcinogenic.
    • Quote:

      “PCBs don’t break down in the environment. They stay around indefinitely. They’re what we now call forever chemicals.” – Host (15:10)

• Faculty Reports Ignored (16:49–17:39):

  • Faculty had long complained of black dust from vents in Poe Hall, coating surfaces—warnings unheeded by the university.

• Federal Health Investigation Stonewalled (17:39–18:18):

  • Kate learns that NC State invited the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) to investigate, but then shut down the inquiry without informing faculty.
  • Quote:

    "NIOSH told me we were about to start the investigation, but then they closed it. We can only do it if the university wants it." – Kate Norwalk (17:56)

---

3. Media Exposure and Mounting Pressure

• News Breaks & Vote of No Confidence (18:38–19:16):

  • Local station WRAL breaks the story of university stonewalling and the cancer cluster, prompting faculty to issue a historic vote of no confidence in the chancellor.
  • Quote:

    “I just want to see the university held accountable... you could at least take some accountability, or offer your employees even a shred of compassion or humanity. And just have gotten none of that.” – Kate Norwalk (31:43)

• Personal Toll: Stories Multiply (19:54–21:39):

  • After her news interview, Christy receives messages from another NC State alum with the same two rare cancers.

    "That was like an oh shit moment. I was like, there is no way that this is a coincidence." – Christy Lewis (21:11)

---

4. Timeline of University Knowledge and Response

• Ignored Warnings Spanning Decades (22:45–27:56):

  • WRAL uncovers records dating back to 2007 of staff complaints, a 2012 request for a safety check, and, most damningly, a 2018 internal report confirming PCBs on Pau Hall’s exterior at staggering levels (12,000–17,000 parts per million vs. 50 ppm EPA safety threshold).
  • Quote:

    "That's 340 times higher than the EPA says is safe." – Sandy Alford (24:50)

• Delayed and Insufficient Action:

  • Testing for PCBs inside Poe Hall is not performed until after multiple public complaints and labor department filings in late 2023.
  • Sandy notes the university’s information website sat un-updated for months, and only its own consultants were allowed to test, further eroding trust.
  • Quote:

    "NC State was adamant that no one was going in that building to do any additional testing, independent testing... They were going to do it. They had this." – Sandy Alford (26:50)

---

5. Legal Battle and Broader Health Impact

• Lawsuit and Discovery of Early Knowledge (29:43–31:43):

  • 12 plaintiffs, including Kate and Sandy, sue NC State for knowing exposure and “deliberate indifference.” Discovery reveals the university knew of PCB contamination as far back as 1991 (electrical oil sample).
  • Lawsuit highlights risks not just to adults but also children—PCBs can have multigenerational effects.
  • Quote:

    "We're seeing that there are cancers, autoimmune diseases and neurological disorders in those children as a result of their mothers or fathers, but mostly mothers who are in that building. It's frightening." – Sandy Alford (30:44)

• Darren Major’s Case (27:00–27:56):

  • Former student sues for the right for outside experts to test the building, wins posthumously after dying from acute leukemia.

---

6. Fighting for Accountability and Closure

• Community Activism:

  • Sandy turns her grief and frustration into activism, coordinating records searches, speaking at city council, and organizing former Poe Hall students and faculty.

• Personal Fallout:

  • The emotional toll is profound for all affected; for Christy, it means questioning her children’s health, while Sandy’s “retirement” becomes a campaign for truth.
  • Quote:

    "I'm just a pissed off gray haired lady with cancer who wants to get answers to things and who's exhausted from people looking her in the eye and not telling her the truth." – Sandy Alford (29:08)
    "I wear [my Doc Martens] every day to remind me that I'm a warrior, that I'm in combat... the fight is not even anywhere near over." – Sandy Alford (32:45)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Official Stonewalling:

  • “North Carolina State never communicated that they had closed the [NIOSH] investigation.” – Host (17:56)

• Media’s Role in Uncovering the Story:

  • "It was WRAL that pieced together the events that led to pohal's closing, what the university knew and when..." – Host (22:45)

• On Betrayal:

  • "You could at least take some accountability, or you could at least offer your employees even a shred of compassion or humanity and just have gotten none of that. I mean, it's just they have handled this about as poorly as they possibly could have." – Kate Norwalk (31:43)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Sandy’s First Illness: 01:28–02:26
• Christy’s Student Life and Illness: 03:33–09:07
• Kate’s Faculty Experience and Discovery: 11:44–16:49
• Building Closure, PCB History: 13:07–15:10
• Faculty Complaints and NIOSH Shutdown: 16:49–18:18
• Vote of No Confidence, Public Pressure: 18:38–19:16
• Alumni Reactions: 19:54–21:11
• Evidence of Decades-long Negligence (2018 report): 23:40–24:50
• Legal Fight for Access (Darren Major): 27:00–27:56
• Lawsuits, Long-term Effects on Families: 29:43–31:43
• Sandy’s Newfound Advocacy: 32:14–33:10

---

Conclusion

This episode presents harrowing accounts of illness, institutional denial, and relentless advocacy, centering voices long silenced by bureaucracy. It spotlights the systemic failures at NC State that led to a campus health disaster and the ongoing struggle for justice and transparency—a cautionary tale of what happens when public health and university reputation collide. The fight for answers—toxic, legal, and deeply personal—is far from over.

---

For further details, listen to the full episode or visit WRAL’s ongoing coverage of the Poe Hall crisis.

Transcript

[A]

I've been on a mission recently to be more intentional about my closet. Fewer pieces, higher quality. Quint's has become the solution. Everything's versatile, comfortable and genuinely well made. While most stuff at this price point falls apart, Quince is built to last. Their lightweight staples have been on rotation lately. Pieces like the linen blazer and cotton cashmere sweater. The kind of pieces you reach for without thinking. It's rare to find pieces that look this good without the usual markup. Refresh your everyday wardrobe with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com campus for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com campus for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com campus we all belong outside.

[B]

We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the succulents that adorn our homes, nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about our busy lives removed from it, but the outdoors is closer than we realize. With Alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today and make the most of your summer with Alltrails.

[A]

Sandy Alford almost never got sick, which is why that first semester of grad school was weird. Out of nowhere, she broke out in a horrible rash.

[C]

There was a purple red oval shaped spot right over my thyroid on my neck and it slowly went up my neck and into my face and on my hands.

[A]

Sandy's rash went away on its own. But later that same semester another medical

[C]

issue came up and then the second thing that I saw was breathing difficulties and I was diagnosed with asthma. Well, I don't smoke. I've never smoked. I don't live with anybody that smokes. So it was unusual to be about 34 years old and be diagnosed with asthma.

[A]

By the end of the semester, her symptoms were gone. Whatever had been happening to her seemed to have passed on its own. She went on with her life and didn't think about it again. At least not for another two decades.

[C]

I was literally in my pajamas, headed to bed and I had my phone in my left hand and I was getting ready to shut the light out in the hallway and I was just checking the news one more time and I noticed this story on a local media here in Raleigh. The story said 99 cases of cancer linked to a building at NC State campus and I'd seen this story before, but I didn't take time to read it because Christmas and, you know, going into holidays and that kind of thing. But this time, for some reason, I stopped and clicked on the story. And I immediately saw Poe hall. And I yelled into the bedroom to my husband and I said, oh, my God. Poe hall is where I went to graduate school. That's the building I was in.

[D]

Foreign

[A]

I'm Marco Gray. This week on Campus Files, the contamination of NC State's P.O. hall. Chapter one, Kristi Lewis.

[D]

I was not drawn to NC State because it was incredibly beautiful.

[A]

I will say that most of the

[D]

campus did not have the feel of, like, I don't know, Unc.

[A]

This is Kristi Lewis. She chose NC State for undergrad for a simple reason. She was in love.

[D]

I had started dating a boy freshman year of high school, and he was going to go to NC State and his extended family was down there. And my extended family is actually down there. I would always go to Raleigh for holidays, Thanksgiving, summers, whatever. And I loved it here. And so I also went to NC State.

[A]

Christy got to campus in 2007. She started in business school, thinking maybe she'd open a small business someday, and

[D]

then remembered how much I actually hate math. And I did not want to end up in an office building.

[A]

So Christy explored a few different majors. Eventually, she landed in the College of Education. The department was housed in Poe Hall.

[D]

This area of campus that Poe hall is on the corner of is called the Court of the Carolinas. It is, I think, the most beautiful corner of campus. It had like a beautiful lush quad. It had more stately, more historic looking buildings from like, earlier eras. You could tell. And then there was Poe hall on the corner there, which was just this ugly kind of monstrosity of a building in like the corner. Kind of like a blob of like, dark architecture, very much like from a different era.

[A]

The inside of Poe hall wasn't much better. Wood paneling, old carpet, it all felt dated, especially compared to the business school building she'd been in before. But the building aside, Christy had no complaints about her new major. She felt good about switching into the College of Education and good about following her boyfriend to NC State too. Junior year, the two got married. Then things abruptly took a turn.

[D]

It's a little bit of a jumble, but I was a newlywed when I started getting sick. I am not a huge headache person and I remember having horrible migraines at night and I would come home from school and I would have to go to bed by like, seven. Because I wanted to just be unconscious. So that was strange to me. And I was like, okay, well, this is weird, you know, but whatever. And then at some point in those next few months, and this is when my classes are getting, like, more and more concentrated in poha, I started getting night sweats where I would wake up, like, in the middle of the night, just drenched, and I would have to get up and, like, change my clothes. I'd put a towel down.

[A]

Christy didn't think to mention it to her husband. She'd generally forget about it by the time she woke up. Eventually, though, she did mention it to her mom, who insisted she go see a doctor.

[D]

I have such a distinct memory of going to the student health center and waiting forever to, like, have somebody finally come in and see me. So finally, the nurse comes in, and she's, like, just doing a quick examination. I was like, hey, I wanted to mention that I've been having these night sweats lately, and I've, like, never had these before. She goes, oh, I wouldn't worry about it. And she gets to my neck and goes, oh, like, there's something large here.

[A]

Christy had to go in for a biopsy, which was traumatic in and of itself. The doctor stuck a huge needle in her neck without local anesthesia and poked around. Then Kristi was sent home without answers. She'd have to wait around for results.

[D]

I remember being in the car, like, a week and a half later and driving down Glenwood Avenue and getting a call from the endocrinologist, and they said, like, hey, you've got papillary thyroid cancer. I was confused. I'm one of five kids in my family. Nobody's ever had cancer. I've always been a very healthy person. I mean, you know, I get the occasional sinus infection and stuff, but never anything that's serious.

[A]

Christy focused on what she could control. She asked doctors for next steps and dutifully followed the instructions. She had her thyroid gland removed. Then in the fall, she started taking meds and following a strict diet to prepare for radiation.

[D]

As I am gearing up to get this radiation, I am brushing my teeth one night, and I see, like, a growth on my arm. And I was like, that's really weird. What is that? So I told my sister about this in passing, just on the phone, and she was like, you have to go get that checked out.

[A]

Soon. Christy was back at the doctor for another biopsy. And once again, she had to wait for results.

[D]

So I didn't hear anything for, you know, a good week. And when I did hear something. They were like, hey, have you been to, like, these parts of Africa, like, recently? And I was like, oh, no, what's wrong with me?

[A]

Christy had no idea why the doctor was asking about recent travel to Africa. It turns out there's a cancer that's common in parts of Africa, Kaposi's sarcoma, that has nearly identical symptoms to what she was experiencing. But that's not what Christy had. Her diagnosis was highly unusual. A supremely rare form of the cancer angiosarcoma.

[D]

And so it was really at that point that I was like, what the hell? And I asked, are these cancers related? I just had thyroid cancer. And he was like, no, they are not related at all. And at that point, it just felt scary of like, what else is my body susceptible to what is happening in me right now?

[A]

It would be another decade before Christy had any idea what might be happening to her.

[B]

If you're an experienced pet owner, you already know that having a pet is 25% belly rubs, 25% yelling, Drop it. And 50% groaning at the bill from every pet visit. Which is why Lemonade Pet insurance is tailor made for your pet and can save you up to 90% on vet bills. It can help cover checkups, emergencies, diagnostics, basically all the stuff that makes your bank account get nervous. Claims are filed super easily through the Lemonade app and half get settled instantly. Get a'@lemonade.com pet and they'll help cover the vet bill for whatever your pet swallowed after you yelled drop it.

[A]

What if everything you learned in history class was only half the story? I'm Dr. Harini Bhatt, host of Hidden History. Every Monday I go where history gets mysterious. Vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, paranormal phenomena, and events that science still can't fully explain. On Hidden History, I treat these moments like open case files. Not myths, not superstition, just incomplete explanations waiting for a closer look. Listen to and follow Hidden History, available now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[E]

That doesn't usually happen all at once. It creeps in quietly. A charge here, a larger balance there. It builds bill by bill, statement by statement, until it becomes too much. If you have $10,000 or more in credit card or personal loan debt, national debt relief can reduce the amount you owe and give you an easier way forward. Their team of experts takes over the hard part. Negotiating with your creditors, breaking down everything for you, clearly, and building a plan that fits your budget. National debt relief has helped over 1 million people with their debt, and they can help you too. Because when you understand your options and have someone in your corner, debt doesn't feel so heavy anymore. It's quick, free and easy to apply. To see if you're eligible, just visit startndr.com today. If debt's been hanging over you, now's the time to take control. Visit startndr.com today.

[A]

Chapter 2 Kate Norwalk the job opening at NC State was serendipitous. Kate Norwalk had just finished her postdoc at UNC and was trying to figure out what to do next. That's when she saw a position at NC State for assistant professor in the psychology department.

[F]

It just kind of seemed like a really great fit for me. I just got really good vibes when I interviewed and I just really loved the people and the department.

[A]

In 2015, Kate got the job. She'd be teaching introductory and advanced level psychology. Both her classes and her office would be in Poe Hall.

[F]

Most of the building is College of Education, but we took up like one and a half floors basically within pohal.

[A]

Kate loved her job. She says she actually enjoyed coming into work. And over the next seven years, she's not sure she took a single sick day. But that changed in 2022. She was diagnosed with breast cancer.

[F]

I had to go through like six rounds of chemo, three surgeries, 25 rounds of radiation, physical therapy, you know, all the stuff that comes with consumed her

[A]

life for the better part of a year. But by the start of the following year, she was back on her feet and back in the classroom.

[F]

So I had just come back to in person in the office building for that fall semester of 2023. And so I was just kind of getting back into the swing of things. I was coming into the office every day and then they literally sent us a message over Thanksgiving break. Basically said that they had closed Poe hall.

[G]

As of 5:00', clock, access to Poe hall at NC State officially restricted.

[A]

All classes normally held at that building have been moved to be either virtual or to new locations. At the time P.O. hall closed, over 400 faculty, staff and graduate students had offices there. Another 4,000 students were taking classes in P.O. hall. And we talked to some of those folks as they were packing up and leaving. They tell us they're concerned, they're upset. What was the reason for the abrupt closure? The email read. The university conducted preliminary environmental testing in pohal and initial results indicate the presence of environmental contaminants in the building, necessitating further study. The environmental contaminants they found were PCBs, which stands for polychlorinated biphenyls. PCBs were once a popular material in building construction. They're effective because they're heat resistant and chemically stable. PCBs were particularly common in the early 1970s, right when Pohol was built. But PCBs quickly fell out of favor. Policymakers were starting to realize something. Industrial chemicals like these could be dangerous.

[G]

For the past five years, an estimated

[A]

600 new chemicals a year have been

[G]

introduced into US commerce. These chemicals have been sold without any systematic advance assessment of their potential impact on human health. We often do not discover how harmful a compound can be until it has become a commonplace item in our everyday life.

[A]

In 1976, Congress passed the Toxic Substances Control Act. The law gave the Environmental protection agency, the EPA, the authority to regulate chemical substances. And by 1979, production of PCBs were banned in the United States because scientists had discovered something alarming. PCBs don't break down in the environment. They stay around indefinitely. They're what we now call forever chemicals. And they don't break down in the human body either. The health effects are serious. Brain fog, fertility problems, skin rashes. Then, in 2015, the World Health Organization classified PCBs as a Group 1 carcinogen, the same category as asbestos and tobacco. Meaning they'd found definitive evidence that PCBs cause cancer in humans. That was the same year that Kate had started teaching in Pohal. As she now processed all of this, her mind went to a colleague, someone else who'd worked in the building. Kate's colleague had been diagnosed with breast cancer just a month before her own diagnosis.

[F]

And so when I was diagnosed and I found out she had, I remember just thinking, like, what are the odds? Like, I still. Nothing nefarious crossed my mind. I still never even thought something about the building. But I was just like, wow, what are the odds, like, that both of us would get breath cancer at the same time. And when I saw that email, like, my stomach just dropped.

[A]

Kate started reaching out to colleagues in the building, including people in the College of Education, that she'd never really interacted with before.

[F]

And so started kind of connecting with some of them and just started realizing, wow, people have really been raising concerns about this for quite a long time, actually.

[A]

Her colleague shared that for years, faculty had been complaining about black material coming out of the vents in some rooms. Apparently, a thin layer of the black stuff coated desks and chairs. The faculty had flagged it repeatedly, but nothing had been done. The pattern made Kate Suspicious of the university more than she already was.

[F]

The way that they went about it seemed shady to me, closing the building, like right around Thanksgiving break. There wasn't any communication about it. And so for me, I was like, you know what? I just want to do my own research just in case they try to be shady about this. And that actually eventually led to me calling niosh.

[A]

NIOSH is an acronym for the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. It's a division of the cdc. As far as everyone knew, NIOSH was conducting an investigation into pohal. But when Kate reached out to niosh, she learned that wasn't the case.

[F]

NIOSH told me we were about to start the investigation, but then they closed it. We can only do it if the university wants it. They said they wanted it, and then they shut it down. And at that point, everyone believed that this investigation was ongoing. North Carolina State never communicated that they had closed the investigation.

[A]

For Kate, this was the final straw, the point at which she lost all faith in the university. She decided to go to the media, specifically the local news station wral. She informed them that NC State had quietly shut down the federal investigation.

[G]

Outraged at NC State, two months after closing a busy campus building because of the presence of toxic chemicals, NC State asked the federal government to stop investigating potentially high rates of cancer there. Tests found the chemicals.

[A]

And a week after the news broke, faculty in the College of Education held a vote of no confidence against NC State's chancellor, the first in the school's history. The chancellor addressed the community on camera for the first time since Pohall closed.

[G]

It's complicated and it will take time.

[D]

And please know that our teams are

[G]

working tirelessly to get answers as quickly as possible.

[A]

The vote of no confidence had another effect. It pushed NC State to re request the federal investigation. Kate was relieved about that. But the school's motivation still stung. To her, they seemed more worried about their reputation and liability than people's health. And Kate wasn't alone in that feeling. Christy, remember the grad student diagnosed with two rare cancers? She felt it too. Unlike Kate, she was no longer on campus, and no one from the university ever contacted her. She found out POHAL was contaminated the same way the public did, through the media.

[D]

I did see something on the news at some point about this building that, like something contaminated, whatever, and it didn't ring a bell to me. I just passed it over and I was like, oh, no, that's terrible. And I just remember sitting down in the front room of my house and was reading an article, and I was like P.O. hall. Why does that sound so familiar? So I clicked on it. I start shaking as I start reading the article. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's the building that I took all my classes in. And I was reading about all the cancer cases and I was like, oh my gosh, this is me.

[A]

Christy immediately called her dad and shared the news. He encouraged her to go to the media. She'd never done that before. But she contacted WRAL and soon she was speaking publicly about her diagnoses. That news came for Christy. At 22, diagnosed with two different cancers within two years.

[D]

I had already been in Poe for probably about three years, first with thyroid cancer. My junior year.

[A]

After speaking on the news, Christy was flooded with messages from people who'd worked or studied in pohal. One particular message from a woman stood out.

[D]

She's within a couple years of me at NC State. And she was like, hey, I saw you on the news. I just want to let you know, I was diagnosed with the same two cancers as you. She had an angiosarcoma and papillary thyroid cancer. That was like an oh shit moment. I was like, there is no way that this is a coincidence.

[B]

Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also, yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats, and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade Pet insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is.

[G]

You're a pro at running your life, at committing to your workout, at showing up every day. At Bombas, we're pros too. Pros at making socks. Our sport assortment has specialized socks for whatever sport you committed to. Running, hiking, golf, Pilates, and so much more. Made with sweat, wicking yarns, blister fighting details and targeted arch support. Bombas Sport is pro level socks from the pros of socks. For another pro, you go to bombas.com audio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombus.com and use code audio.

[A]

Chapter 3 Sandy Alford. In the months after Pohal closed, there wasn't much communication from NC State. Faculty and students, both current and former were getting almost all of their information from the news, specifically the local station wral. It was WRAL that pieced together the events that led to pohal's closing, what the university knew and when WRAL broke the news that as early as 2007, nearly two decades before Pohol's closing, faculty had been complaining of black coating on surfaces. A 2012 letter asks the university's Environmental Health and Public Safety Unit for confirmation that there was, quote, nothing dangerous in the building. And it was WRAL that broke an even bigger bombshell.

[G]

This is a huge story our team has been following and will continue to follow the impacts. But this is just one small piece of evidence right here that now that report indicates that, that those PCBs were in fact found on the outside of that building. The university said in an email in

[A]

2018, five years before POHAL closed, the school knew about the presence of PCBs on the outside of the building.

[C]

In 2018 they were doing a weatherproofing project and there were leaks and things on the roof and some of the sides of the building. So they went in and they did some testing.

[A]

This is Sandy who we heard from at the very start of the episode. By the time Pohol closed, she'd lost two friends who were also in the building to cancer. And she'd battled breast cancer herself. When she saw the news of the 2018 report, she was shocked, both that the university hadn't said anything and that the PCB levels seemed really high. To put it in perspective, the EPA considers anything over 50 parts per million to be dangerous. In PO hall, the window caulking measured between 12,000 and 17,000 parts per million.

[C]

That's 340 times higher than the EPA says is safe. And that's important because if you have PCBs on the outside of the building that those can leach on the inside. And yet NC State didn't do any testing internally. They just stuck with the outside.

[A]

So what finally prompted NC State to test inside the building? In August 2023, a faculty member notified the university that she, along with seven other POHAL employees, was battling breast cancer. She wrote there could be more. This is alarming. The next month, another professor with breast cancer filed complaints with the North Carolina Department of Labor and the EPA over potential PCB exposure. At that point, the university had no choice but to investigate. And their preliminary testing confirmed the faculty members fears there were PCBs in the building. But what they didn't know yet was just how high the cancer rates were among current and former Pohal faculty and students. WRAL was meticulously collecting data, tracking every case, and the number kept climbing.

[G]

More than 225 people have reached out to WRAL telling us that they were diagnosed with cancer after. After spending time in this building today,

[H]

I spoke to students.

[A]

Meanwhile, NC State repeatedly said that it was not collecting health data. The only thing they were offering was a website with updates.

[C]

There's absolutely just crickets there. I know it went for five and a half, almost six months without being updated at all. And so that POHA website, to me, it's no use.

[A]

To Sandy, the biggest red flag wasn't even the lack of communication. It was that NC State wanted only its own consultants inside the building. Remember, they'd already tried to shut down a federal health investigation, and now they were denying entry to outside experts and attorneys.

[C]

NC State was adamant that no one was going in that building to do any additional testing, independent testing, that they owned the building. They were going to do it. They had this.

[A]

Eventually, one former student, Darren Major, took NC State to court to get access to the building. He'd been in Poe hall for both his doctoral and master's degrees. He spent about 30 hours in the building per week. Now he was battling acute leukemia.

[C]

His attorney asked the judge to please give access to us to get into Poe Hall Because Dr. Maeser had cancer and had been given only months to live. He deserved the right to know what was in the building that could have caused his illness and that to deny him access was to deny him justice.

[A]

Darren Major passed away in May 2025. He didn't live to see the outcome of his legal battle. His case made it all the way to the state supreme Court, and the judge ruled in his favor, paving the way for outside experts to enter the building and test inside.

[C]

I stood outside of the building of Poe hall that day and watched all of the folks arrive and start to do that testing.

[A]

Sandy is still anxiously awaiting the results of that testing. In the meantime, she's trying to find as many people as possible who worked or studied in Pohal or who may know someone who did so that people

[C]

can find out that they were exposed at a minimum and then make that connection. At least it might give them some sense of what happened to them and help them deal with some of the news that they've gotten about their health.

[A]

Sandy says it's not unusual for her dining room table to be covered with documents about Pohal and about PCBs, documents she's downloaded off the Internet or gotten through records requests.

[C]

I am Certainly not a toxicologist, but I'm a very smart and determined woman who has to figure out what the hell happened to her inside that building.

[A]

Sandy's also working with an advocacy group on NC State's campus to get the word out. And she's speaking with whoever will listen, including the city council.

[C]

This is not how I thought my retirement years would be, but if I can be of value, I want to be. This has become a purpose for me because it's personal. And someone told me one day that they said, you know, you're a warrior. It's like I'm just a pissed off gray haired lady with cancer who wants to get answers to things and who's exhausted from people looking her in the eye and not telling her the truth.

[A]

Today, Sandy is one of 12 plaintiffs suing NC State. They allege they developed cancer after years of being exposed unknowingly to toxic chemicals inside Pohal. And during the discovery process, their attorneys found something North Carolina State definitively knew about the PCBs in Po hall as far back as 1991. That year, something broke in the building's electrical system and when workers tested the oil inside, it came back contaminated. And then NC State did nothing. No broader testing, no warning to the people inside. The lawsuit accuses the university of deliberate indifference, of having warning signs for decades and doing nothing. There are only 12 names on the complaint, but Sandy says this case isn't just about them. It's about the hundreds of people who've since reported cancer after spending time in that building. Some of them were children.

[C]

We know that there's almost 100 children because PCBs are multi generational. So if you are a woman inside that building and you were pregnant or breastfeeding or even just exposed and then later became pregnant, we're seeing that there are cancers, autoimmune diseases and neurological disorders in those children as a result of their mothers or fathers, but mostly mothers who are in that building. It's frightening.

[A]

Here's Christy.

[D]

I have to look at my children through this lens of why does my daughter have chronic headaches? Is it because of PCBs where they pass down to her? I don't know. I'm not a scientist. I do not know the answer to this.

[A]

The list of potential symptoms is long among the most common. Reproductive of harm and premature menopause. Kate has experienced both. Today she's one of the plaintiffs suing NC State.

[F]

You know, at this point, obviously money would be wonderful, right? We all of us have lots of, you know, insurance bills and things like that. But honestly, even if I never saw a dime, I just want to see the university held accountable like that is. You know, you could at least take some accountability, or you could at least offer your employees even a shred of compassion or humanity and just have gotten none of that. I mean, it's just they have handled this about as poorly as they possibly could have.

[A]

Here's Sandy again.

[C]

When you get a diagnosis of cancer, it changes your life and the emotional and mental and physical stamina that it takes to deal with that. It's a lot. But on top of that, we're battling NC State University. With an annual budget of $2 billion,

[A]

Sandy recently bought herself a pair of Doc Martens, the kind that look like combat boots.

[C]

Well, I got my Doc Martens not too long ago and I wear them every day to remind me that I'm a warrior, that I'm in combat. And so I put on my uniform and I go to work every day and try to get to the bottom of this. And the fight is not even anywhere near over.

[A]

Special thanks to Phil Byrd. If you've got a story idea, we would love to hear about it. Send us an [e-mail] and if you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. While you're there, leave us a review and a five star rating. Campus Files is an Odyssey original podcast hosted by Margot Gray and Ian Mondt. Our executive producers are Leah Reese, Dennis and Lloyd Lockridge. Campus Files is produced produced by Ian Mont and Margot Gray. Sound design and engineering by Andy Jaskowicz and Zach Clark Legal support by Laura Berman and Melissa Jean Original music by Davey Sumner Special thanks to Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchison, Rose, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney, and Lauren Vieira.

[H]

Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's Name youe Price Tool for years. With the Name youe Price Tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they show you options that fit your budget enough. Hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy, or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun Shopping for car insurance can be visit progressive.com and give the name your price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law

[E]

from the trusted team behind 48 Hours welcome to Case by Case, your weekly update on the biggest true crime stories unfolding right now.

[F]

Nick Ryder remains in cover custody without bail.

[G]

Luigi Mangione accused of stalking and gunning

[A]

down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

[E]

From high profile trials and stunning evidence to major breaks in cold cases, we'll follow it all case by case. Follow and listen to 48 Hours case by case. Wherever you get your podcasts.