Epstein & MIT

Summary

Campus Files – “Epstein & MIT” (Oct 1, 2025)

Brief Overview

This episode of Campus Files investigates the hidden relationship between MIT’s cutting-edge Media Lab and the late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Through first-person accounts and investigative reporting, the episode explores how the Media Lab quietly accepted Epstein’s money while publicly championing causes like the #MeToo movement, the fallout once Epstein’s ties became public, and the courageous whistleblowing that revealed the truth. The conversation raises profound questions about institutional ethics, donor influence, and the uncomfortable compromises made behind America’s hallowed academic facades.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins and Ethos of MIT Media Lab

• [03:59–07:13]
  • Founded in 1985 by Nicholas Negroponte to foster interdisciplinary innovation, dismantling academic siloes.
  • The Media Lab became famous for radical, future-oriented research (e.g., personalized newspapers, bionic limbs, self-assembling robots).
  • The lab’s open physical and organizational structure was designed for “serendipitous encounters” and groundbreaking collaboration.

"You have the best of the best in every field, working side by side...and so you really are creating an environment where breakthroughs happen."
— Kim Holman (05:13)

2. The Lab’s Unconventional Funding Model

• [07:13–09:35]
  • Rejected government grants in favor of private, unrestricted corporate membership fees.
  • This allowed researchers creative freedom and stability—but made the lab vulnerable to shortfalls during economic downturns (early 2000s dot-com bust).

"His philosophy was that he didn't want to have to go beg or apply or be reviewed or have to pass some sort of test...So he turned to private funding."
— Margo Gray (07:33)

3. The Arrival of Joi Ito as Director

• [09:35–12:04]
  • Joi Ito, a well-connected tech investor with no academic credentials, was hired for his fundraising talent and network, not his research background.
  • Ito quickly began seeking high-profile donors.

"He'd dropped out of college twice, didn't hold any degrees, and had never run a lab before. Not the typical credentials of an MIT faculty member. But Ito had something else to offer: credibility and connections in the tech world."
— Narrator (09:44)

4. Jeffrey Epstein’s Entry into Media Lab Circles

• [12:04–16:39]
  • Epstein, post-conviction, was shunned by institutions like Harvard but actively courted by MIT Media Lab under Ito’s leadership.
  • The fundraising team, including Signe Swensen, faced moral and reputational dilemmas handling Epstein’s donations.

"In the interview, Jeffrey Epstein's name was brought up and I got the immediate sense that they were gauging my reaction. It was a test to see if I could do the work with some discretion."
— Signe Swensen (13:20)

5. Secrecy, Workarounds, and Moral Distress

• [16:11–19:14]
  • Lab leadership implemented elaborate steps to conceal Epstein’s involvement: limiting donation sizes, anonymizing gifts, using only initials on calendars, forbidding email discussions.
  • Signe grew increasingly uncomfortable, occasionally removing Epstein’s name from event lists and being shut out as she voiced her objections.

"Jeffrey essentially became Voldemort. And that's how we would refer to him because, you know, don't talk about him, but an ever present thing."
— Signe Swensen (17:20)

6. Epstein’s Actual Contributions and the Complicit Network

• [17:37–19:14]
  • Epstein brokered substantial gifts—$5 million from Leon Black, $2 million from Bill Gates—rather than primarily donating himself.
  • Signe and other staff felt the weight of enabling his presence, especially with young people on campus.

"There are people younger than 18 on this campus...we are opening ourselves up to a lawsuit."
— Signe Swensen (19:14)

7. Direct Encounters and Resignation

• [19:14–21:33]
  • Epstein physically visited the lab, with a demand for two “young female assistants” to accompany him—a detail that further unsettled staff.
  • Signe’s moral exhaustion culminated in her departure from MIT, “wanting to wash my hands” and leave fundraising work altogether.

"I just wish there was a way you could take a shower for your soul."
— Signe Swensen (21:07)

8. Scandal Blows Up — The Whistleblower Steps Forward

• [23:14–27:36]
  • In 2019, after Epstein’s arrest and death, the press zeroed in on his MIT connections.
  • Joi Ito issued a limited public apology; MIT officially admitted $800,000 in donations over 20 years—well below the true numbers, according to Signe.
  • Signe accessed her old MIT emails and connected with Ronan Farrow, providing documents and agreeing to go on record in the New Yorker expose.

"If Ronan Farrow is telling a story, people are listening. That's part of why I decided... I would put my name on it and say, you got to call me a liar if you want to deny this."
— Signe Swensen (26:41)

9. Immediate and Long-term Fallout

• [27:23–29:30]
  • Farrow’s story spurred a media “onslaught,” and Joi Ito resigned from MIT and related boards within 24 hours.
  • MIT commissioned an external law firm (Goodwin and Proctor) to investigate; Signe critiques the report as incomplete and poorly publicized.

"So rarely you see any sort of justice...to have forced MIT to actually acknowledge it, for Joey to be pushed to resign, for MIT to have to investigate themselves, I was not expecting any of that."
— Signe Swensen (27:36)

10. Personal and Institutional Reckoning

• [29:30–30:13]
  • The episode closes with questions around the true values of elite institutions and a sense of collective disillusionment among insiders.

"We'd all been duped by this false notion that we were aligned with morality and ethics and doing good for society. We couldn't say that anymore. That's a really hard pill to swallow."
— Kim Holman (29:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the MeToo hypocrisy:
  "Just think about how it felt for them when the scandal happened, how humiliating that must have been...they'd just been applauded and awarded at the very institution that was prioritizing Jeff Epstein over its own students."
  — Margo Gray (03:21)

• On donor selection and institutional priorities:
  "When I saw that, I said, no way we should ever try to cultivate him for money. This person should be disqualified as a donor."
  — Signe Swensen (14:05)

• On the pressure to maintain secrecy:
  "For added caution, Signe was told to discuss anything related to Epstein in person, never over email. And whenever Ito met with him, Epstein appeared on the calendar only by his initials."
  — Narrator (17:04)

• Signe’s final motivation to speak out:
  "If they're going to be brave enough to stand on the steps of the Capitol and say that they will name their abusers out loud, they have experienced so much worse. So if they're willing to put it out there, I shouldn't be afraid of it either."
  — Signe Swensen (30:42)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:31] The MeToo Disobedience Award ceremony at Media Lab juxtaposed with secret Epstein donations.
• [05:00] Introduction of Kim Holman and interdisciplinary innovation at Media Lab.
• [09:44] Joi Ito’s nontraditional appointment as Media Lab director.
• [13:20] Signe Swensen’s first interview—Epstein as an internal “test” for discretion.
• [16:11] Institutional efforts to obscure and anonymize Epstein’s donations.
• [19:14] Signe recounts internal resistance and concerns over Epstein’s presence on campus.
• [21:07] Signe describes the emotional toll and her resignation.
• [25:29] MIT’s president issues a public statement on Epstein donations.
• [26:41] Signe’s decision to become a public whistleblower.
• [27:23] The immediate aftermath: Ito’s resignation and public response.
• [29:36] Loss of faith within the Media Lab community.
• [30:42] Signe inspired by Epstein survivors’ public testimony to speak again.

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Tone and Language

The episode is layered, candid, and emotionally forthright, blending narrative storytelling with investigative rigor. The voices of Kim Holman and Signe Swensen—both insiders—add raw authenticity and moral urgency.

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Summary Takeaway

Epstein & MIT reveals deep institutional failures under the surface of innovation and excellence at MIT’s Media Lab. Through whistleblower testimony, the episode exposes systemic secrecy and ethical compromise, and highlights the crucial role of personal courage in holding powerful institutions accountable. The story ultimately questions the costs of prestige and ambition when paired with silence and enabling complicity.

Transcript

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[Narrator/Interviewer]

This episode marks the end of our first season of Campus Files. From secret societies to shadowy scandals, we've dug into the stories you won't hear about on the campus tour, and none of it would have been possible without you. Thank you to everyone who listened, shared an episode, or left a review. And we're especially grateful to those of you who trusted us with your stories. Whether you sent in a tip or spoke out about your experience, this season exists because of you. But just because the mics are off doesn't mean we're going quiet. If you've got a tip, a mystery, or just something on your campus that's never added up, our inbox is always [e-mail] your story might be the next one we dig into, and if you're new or just want a refresher, now's the perfect time to binge Season one. There's a whole archive of campus secrets waiting for you. At mit, there's a research lab, unlike most on college campuses, a place specifically designed to push boundaries and explore radical ideas, from flying robots to foldable cars. It's called the Media Lab. In 2018, the Media Lab held an awards ceremony that embodied its unconventional spirit. The prize was called the Disobedience Award, a celebration of those who've bent or broken rules in the service of society.

[Margo Gray]

We are honoring some remarkable women here today, and many of those women are involved with one of the most important movements of our time.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

That year, the lab chose to honor the founders of the MeToo movement activists whose work had toppled powerful men, upended industries, and sparked a global reckoning with sexual assault and sexual harassment.

[Margo Gray]

It's becoming something that we are now talking about and we are talking about due to the bravery of the extraordinary women who we are honoring today. And so many.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

What almost no one in the audience knew was that the very institution celebrating the MeToo founders was at the same time quietly accepting donations from a person convicted of multiple sex offenses.

[Margo Gray]

Just think about how it felt for them when the scandal happened, how humiliating that must have been for them, and how disgusting that reality was when they'd just been applauded and awarded at the very institution that was prioritizing Jeff Epstein over its own students.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

As it turned out, Jeffrey Epstein was not a one off donor. He was critical to the media fundraising apparatus.

[Margo Gray]

It broke my heart and then I got so angry. I got very, very angry.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

I'm Margo Gray. This week on campus files, MIT Media Lab's secret ties to Jeffrey Epstein. In the 1980s, MIT professor Nicholas Negroponte looked around his university and saw a problem. Academic departments were completely siloed. Computer scientists spoke only to other computer scientists, artists only to artists. To Negroponte, this wasn't just inefficient, it was stifling innovation. He believed that real breakthroughs happen when disciplines collide. So in 1985, he partnered with MIT's president to try something radical. They founded the Media Lab.

[Margo Gray]

His original concept was that MIT Media Lab would be an interdisciplinary research lab comprised of labs now with different fields of focus.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

This is Kim Holman. She spent four years at the Media Lab from 2013 to 2017. Her training in art, architecture and engineering made her a natural fit for this kind of interdisciplinary work.

[Margo Gray]

You have the best of the best in every field, working side by side with other experts who are the best of the best in their field, as well as the brightest students in the world. And because of that, you can cross pollinate between these incredible people. And so you really are creating an environment where breakthroughs happen.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

For Negroponte, it wasn't just about chasing breakthroughs. His vision was much larger than that. He wanted to create a lab that would invent the future itself.

[Margo Gray]

The Media Lab. Welcome to a place where the future is lived, not imagined. Complex puzzles are solved. New businesses are incubated. A better future is invented.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Together with the Media Lab, the Media Lab's first members included some of the biggest name and computer science among them, Marvin Minsky, a pioneer of artificial intelligence. Almost immediately, the Media Lab gained a reputation for pushing the boundaries of technology. One early project captured that spirit fish wrap, a prototype newspaper that personalized stories to a reader's individual interests. The research within these walls is inspired by our lives outside of them. At the MIT Media Lab, even the physical layout of the lab was innovative.

[Margo Gray]

The Media Lab building itself is a gorgeous work of architecture. It's a multi story building with an open floor plan. So it's not unusual to have two, three or four labs in each floor working side by side. So on any given day you can just take a walk and see something that is mind blowing. Some kind of innovation like a bionic leg made out of some new kind of structural glass, or there are some sort of self assembling robots that you find out later are built out of cellulose.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

To make it all possible, the Media Lab needed more than just talent. It needed money. And a lot of it. At first, Negroponte turned to the National Science foundation for funding. But his grant application was rejected, a setback that would define the Media Lab's approach to funding going forward.

[Margo Gray]

His philosophy was that he didn't want to have to go beg or apply or be reviewed or have to pass some sort of test in order to get funding. So what he did is he turned to private funding so that he could go directly and just simply get the money.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Instead of competing for federal grants like other university labs, the Media Lab built its funding around a consortium of corporate sponsors, from telecom giants to media companies. And each corporate sponsor paid an annual membership fee.

[Margo Gray]

And then they, in return, get access to all of the intellectual property, the demos, the data, the analysis, and all of the different work that's being done at Media Lab.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

The benefit of this model was simple. Researchers no longer had to spend time chasing grants or worrying about the price tag of their far flung ideas.

[Margo Gray]

Inside the bubble of each individual lab, all of the people who are there working on the projects, the students, the scholars, the visiting professionals, et cetera, never have any awareness or discussions about funding or fundraising. We never had to think about funding, and we were free to focus exclusively and completely on the research and the projects that we were creating.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

In many ways, the funding model was a stroke of genius. It freed researchers from endless grant writing, and the corporate names attached to the lab boosted its prestige and profile. For the first decade, the money poured in and the budget grew by about 30% every year. But by the early 2000s, cracks were beginning to show. The dot com bust and telecom crash made companies think twice about funding risky experiments. Corporate sponsorship slowed and they couldn't keep up with the scale of faculty ambitions. So when the Media Lab began its search for a new director, one thing was clear. They needed someone who could fundraise. The person they found was Joi Ito.

[Margo Gray]

I have been named the new executive director of the MIT Media Lab, but I'm already kind of raising money and doing all this stuff. You know, I'm going there every month.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

When Ito became director in 2011, he wasn't an obvious choice for the role. He'd dropped out of college twice, didn't hold any degrees, and had never run a lap before. Not the typical credentials of an MIT faculty member. But Ito had something else to offer credibility and connections in the tech world. He'd invested early in companies like Twitter and Flickr and co founded a venture firm in Tokyo. So while he may not have been an academic, he was a connector. And just two years into his new role, he made a connection with someone who would reshape the Media Lab's future. Jeffrey Epstein, your teen adjective used to.

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Joi Ito became director of the media lab in 2011. From the start, he pushed to expand fundraising from donors. Remember, unlike most university research labs, the Media Lab didn't run on federal grants. Its Lifeblood was corporate sponsorships, and there was never enough money to cover all the ambitious projects that researchers wanted to pursue.

[Margo Gray]

The fundraising team was new and largely developed to supplement the annual corporate membership funds and to tap into the connections that the director of the lab had.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

This is Signe Swensen. She was working in MIT's central fundraising office when in 2013, she heard about a new role at the Media Lab.

[Margo Gray]

Working in fundraising, you're often the person helping something cool happen and rarely the person participating in the cool thing. So when I heard of the job at the Media Lab, it felt like a way I could get closer to the excitement and the people who were making real breakthroughs and exciting inventions.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Signe was excited to apply for the role, but one of her early interviews left her deeply uncomfortable.

[Margo Gray]

In the interview, Jeffrey Epstein's name was brought up and I got the immediate sense that they were gauging my reaction. It was a test to see if I could do the work with some discretion.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Jeffrey Epstein was a name Signe already knew. During her time in MIT's central fundraising office, she'd seen him listed as a prospective donor. As with every name, she did a quick Google search and what she found stunned her. Epstein was registered as a sex offender. In 2008. He'd pled guilty to two charges, soliciting prostitution and soliciting prostitution from a minor. Jeffrey Epstein went to jail just before 10 this morning. He pleaded guilty in open court.

[Margo Gray]

He agreed to serve a total of 18 months in the parole. That doesn't feel like a one off thing. It certainly made me think, well, this is just the thing he got caught for. And when I saw that, I said, no way we should ever try to cultivate him for money. This person should be disqualified as a donor.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But the Media Lab's leadership clearly didn't share her concerns. That became apparent in her interview when Epstein's involvement was brought up explicitly.

[Margo Gray]

And I was asked if I would be willing to do the work, even though that was going to be part of the job. And I had rarely been brought in front of donors before, so I just assumed there's no way he's going to come to campus. I won't be at an event he's at. And I said, as long as I don't have to be in the same room with him. And that was that. I passed the test.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

What Signe didn't realize was how often Epstein's name would surface in her new role. Ito was actively courting him as a donor. The two men had first connected earlier that year at a TED conference in Long Beach, California. For Ito, Epstein's appeal was obvious. He wasn't just wealthy, he was plugged into power. His circle included Bill Clinton, Donald Trump and Prince Andrew. And most importantly, he had a history of writing big checks to prestigious institutions. But what did Epstein get out of it? If you talk to reporters who covered him and look at the company he kept, a pattern emerges. Epstein seemed to crave attention from the world's intellectual elite. For years, Harvard University had been his obsession. In fact, between 1998 and 2008, he donated more than $9 million to the university. But after his 2008 conviction, Harvard stopped accepting his donations. The Media Lab, meanwhile, did the opposite. Ito was eager to get Epstein involved. The challenge was keeping the partnership quiet.

[Margo Gray]

I think it was pretty early on when the conversations about, how do we take Jeffrey Epstein's money? How do we make that happen without people outside of the lab finding out about it? I explained, because I was the person with the experience in central fundraising. I knew that there were certain alerts that would happen when gifts came in, and so I knew that we could not quietly take Jeffrey Epstein's money.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Signe is referring to automated emails that went out to fundraisers and admins when a large gift came in. She soon learned that a workaround was being sorted out, though she didn't know who exactly was involved in that decision making.

[Margo Gray]

When the conversations were had, I was not in the room, but it was relayed to me that we aren't going to take large donations from Jeffrey. They were going to allow gifts of 50,000 to 100,000.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

These smaller gifts would be accepted anonymously. For added caution, Signe was told to discuss anything related to Epstein in person, never over email. And whenever Ito met with him, Epstein appeared on the calendar only by his initials.

[Margo Gray]

Jeffrey essentially became Voldemort. And that's how we would refer to him because, you know, don't talk about him, but an ever present thing. To me, it felt like a lot of effort for someone we didn't want to be publicly associated with.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But to Ito, the effort was worth it. While Epstein's own donations weren't especially large, he was providing access to a network of wealthy, well connected donors. In fact, Signy says, Epstein was credited with securing a $5 million gift from investor Leon Black and another $2 million gift from Bill Gates. In one email, Ito spelled it out. This is a $2 million gift from Bill Gates, directed by Jeffrey Epstein. All the while, Signe was growing increasingly uneasy in her role and she pushed back in whatever small ways she could.

[Margo Gray]

Part of my job was to help organize events that we would be at, to try to cultivate people and get people to learn about the lab at TED and at Formula one. And every time we would create invite lists for one of these events, Jeffrey Epstein's name was often included. And every time, I would remove Jeffrey Epstein's name, and there were certain events where I would remove his name multiple times. And, you know, if it was getting re added, I knew it was not up to me. But wherever I had a small amount of power, I was going to do something with it.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But at the end of the day, there was only so much Signe could do.

[Margo Gray]

The more I voiced my opposition to cultivating him, the less I was included in conversations and informed of what was going on.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Signe was powerless to stop what was happening. That became painfully clear in 2015 when she learned that Epstein would be coming to the Media Lab to meet with researchers.

[Margo Gray]

I think we all thought this was a step too far, that it was an uncomfortable truth that he was being cultivated and involved in the lab in that way. But I think we all just knew there are people younger than 18 on this campus, and legally, this I remember saying, we are opening ourselves up to a lawsuit.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But the visit went ahead anyway. Signe was unsettled to learn it had been scheduled for a day when the one professor called who objected to Epstein wouldn't be on campus. And then she heard about Epstein's request.

[Margo Gray]

When we were planning the visit, I was informed one day that Jeffrey Epstein doesn't go anywhere without two young female assistants by his side. Certainly people will bring their assistant or someone from their team or their business. But to have it called out specifically that he has two young female assistants with him at all times, that he does not go into a room without them, that just set off alarms in my head. This is so strange. Are these women here of their own free will?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

On the day of the visit, Epstein was supposed to slip in through a discreet side entrance. Instead, he walked straight through the front door. What unsettled Signe and her female co workers most was the sight of the assistants. So they went out of their way to be warm to the women and keep watch for any signs of distress.

[Margo Gray]

There had been a news story of a flight attendant who had rescued a girl who was being trafficked by finding a napkin in the trash. And so we did. We went through the trash, and we looked at the napkins that they had thrown away.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

In the end, Epstein's visit pushed Signe beyond the limits of what she could tolerate.

[Margo Gray]

I remember coming home the day of the visit telling my roommates that I just wish there was a way you could take a shower for your soul. I think I had been thinking about leaving before the visit happened, but that really pushed me to realize that this was not a good place for me and I could feel myself physically deteriorating.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Not long after Signe made the decision to leave her fundraising role. What she didn't realize was that her story with the Media Lab was nowhere near finished. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no.

[Margo Gray]

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By 2016, Signe had had enough. She left her role at the Media Lab and tried to get as far away as possible.

[Margo Gray]

Ultimately, when I decided to leave, I just wanted to wash my hands a bit and I moved out of state and decided no more fundraising jobs and eventually no more nonprofit work.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But she could only stay away for so long because in 2019, Jeffrey Epstein was suddenly everywhere.

[Margo Gray]

Billionaire Jeffrey Epstein has been arrested on.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

New sex trafficking charges. Epstein has long faced accusations of sexually abusing underage girls.

[Margo Gray]

The well connected billionaire Jeffrey Epstein is now facing similar charges in Federal Court.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

On July 6, 2019, authorities arrested Epstein at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey. He was charged with sex trafficking of minors and conspiracy to commit sex trafficking of minors and he was taken to a federal detention facility. The shocking revelations immediately sparked a frenzy of reporting. Journalists began combing through Epstein's vast web of connections, scrutinizing the people and institutions tied to him. Among them was mit and Epstein's death in prison only intensified the scrutiny.

[Margo Gray]

Some breaking news right now. Disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein has taken his own life while he was behind bars.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Here in New York City. Within five days of The News Media Lab director, Joi Ito, released a public apology. He admitted that he had approved donations from Epstein, what he called an error in judgment.

[Margo Gray]

It didn't acknowledge the extent of things. It did make me feel like, oh, the real story is not going to come out. You know, the truth isn't going to come out.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

While some were calling for Ito to resign, many of his colleagues at the Media Lab rallied to his defense, even publishing a letter of support.

[Margo Gray]

I saw a number of names on there who I knew, knew everything that I knew, and if I was them and I was still working at the lab, I'd probably feel pressured in order to keep my job. I got to put my name on this list.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

A week later, MIT's president issued a statement titled Letter Regarding Jeffrey Epstein and mit. It read in part, here are the core facts as best as we can determine. Over the course of 20 years, MIT received approximately $800,000 through foundations controlled by Jeffrey Epstein.

[Margo Gray]

And I knew for a fact that those were not the extent of the numbers. And I was at home in my apartment, and I just remembered that I still had my old phone from when I worked at mit. For some reason, they hadn't cut off my email access. I went to my cupboard, pulled out the phone, booted it up, searched Epstein's name, and instantly had, like, 30 emails referencing everything. I just immediately felt the weight of that. And if there was ever a moment that this information would stand to have an impact in any way was then.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Signe gave herself the weekend to decide whether to come forward with what she knew. Ultimately, she determined that she wouldn't forgive herself if she sat on the information. So that Monday, she emailed a Media Lab professor who'd resigned in disgust, writing that she felt burdened by information. The professor connected her with Whistleblower Aid, a nonprofit that supports people exposing misconduct. And before long, Signe was put in touch with Ronan Farrow at the New Yorker.

[Margo Gray]

I knew that if Ronan Farrow is telling a story, people are listening. That's part of why I decided that I didn't want to remain anonymous, that I would put my name on it and say, you got to call me a liar if you want to deny this.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

On September 6, 2019, Ronan Farrow published an article in the New Yorker titled How an Elite University Research Center Concealed Its Relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Nothing could have prepared Signe for the media firestorm that followed.

[Margo Gray]

It was an onslaught. It was every media outlet and ones I'd never heard of.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Less than 24 hours after the article broke, Ito resigned He also stepped down from a visiting professorship at Harvard and resigned from the boards of three organizations, including the New York Times.

[Margo Gray]

I was shocked. So rarely you see any sort of justice, and I wasn't seeking justice for myself. But to have forced MIT to actually acknowledge it, for Joey to be pushed to resign, for MIT to have to investigate themselves, I was not expecting any of that.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Signe is referring to the investigation that was commissioned by MIT's President and delegated to an outside law firm, Goodwin and Proctor. I asked Signe what she thought of it.

[Margo Gray]

There was a part of me that read it and went, well, this is good that they did this. But it was months later, after people had moved on to the next scandal or tragedy, and I don't think many people read it. They will say that you won't find my name in there, and you also won't find Bill Gates name in there. So how thorough could it really have been?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

One thing the report did make clear was that Ito wasn't the only one at fault. Others in the lab had condoned or at least ignored Epstein's donations. Among them was a researcher whose office was right next to Kim Holman, who we heard from at the start of the episode. Here's Kim.

[Margo Gray]

This researcher was working on consciousness, so I had many conversations with him that were quite philosophical in nature.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Kim discovered that her colleague's path to the Media Lab went straight through Epstein. Epstein had originally introduced the researcher to Ito and was subsidizing his work.

[Margo Gray]

It's hard to sort of really explain what that was like, to have had great conversations with somebody about things like conscious enlightenment, who has absolutely no problem taking money from somebody who has violated children.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

The entire episode left Kim questioning the Media Lab, a place she'd once held in high regard.

[Margo Gray]

We'd all been duped by this false notion that we were aligned with morality and ethics and doing good for society. We couldn't say that anymore. That's a really hard pill to swallow.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Today, Jeffrey Epstein's name is back in the headlines. The House Oversight Committee has released a new batch of documents from his estate. But instead of bringing closure, it's only fueled louder demands for every remaining file to be made public and for the redacted names to be revealed. Among those calling for transparency are Epstein's survivors.

[Margo Gray]

We are not to going. Going away. We are not going to be quiet and we are not going to give up. And I ask the American public to.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Stand with us and not give up. Signe was struck watching those survivors testify on Capitol Hill. Until then, she admitted she hadn't planned on answering my email, wary of being pulled back into the media spotlight. But the women's courage in the face of trauma on a much greater scale than her own moved her.

[Margo Gray]

It was at that moment where I was like, okay, yeah, if they're going to be brave enough to stand on the steps of the Capitol and say that they will name their abusers out loud, they have experienced so much worse. So if they're willing to put it out there, I shouldn't be afraid of it either.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Thank you to journalist and author Noam Cohen for his insights and contributions to this episode. Campus Files Is an Odyssey Original Podcast this episode was written and reported by Margo Gray. Campus Files is produced by Ian Mont Eliot Adler and me, Margo Gray. Our executive producers and story editors are Maddie Sprunkiser and Lloyd Lockridge. Campus Files is edited, mixed and mastered by Chris Basel and Andy Jaskowicz. Special thanks to Jenna Weiss Berman, J.D. crowley, Leah Rhys, Dennis, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Schuff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman and Hilary Van Ornam. Original theme music by James Waterman and Davey Sumner. If you have two tips or story ideas, write to us at campus files pod gmail.com.

[Margo Gray]

What'S up guys? I'm Jordan Robinson, host of the podcast the Women's Hoop Show. We're heading towards the home stretch of the WNBA season and there is so much to get into every episode. Twice a week I'm joined by one of my amazing co hosts as we dissect the biggest games, performances and even some off court drama. The playoffs are quickly approaching and now is the best time to tune in. Who will come away as this year's champion? The competition is heating up and so are we. Listen to and follow the Women's Hoop show available now. Wherever you get your podcasts.