Goodbye, DEI

Summary

Campus Files — "Goodbye, DEI" (Sept 10, 2025)
Podcast Host: Margo Gray | Producer: Audacy
Topic: The rapid rise and fall of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in North Carolina’s public universities

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Campus Files explores the recent and dramatic rollback of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) across North Carolina’s public universities. Host Margo Gray, joined by higher ed reporters and student journalists, investigates how DEI programs—once considered mainstream and even championed by conservatives—became a lightning rod in America’s culture wars. The story follows the political maneuvers behind these changes, the human impact on campuses, covert resistance efforts, the wave of “undercover journalism,” and the climate of fear now palpable among faculty and students.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Secret’s Out: DEI Work Goes Underground

• [01:05] The episode opens with an incident at UNC Charlotte: Jeannique Sanders, an administrator, is secretly filmed admitting that while DEI is officially gone, covert opportunities remain.
  • “So, we’ve renamed it. We’ve revised it, we’ve recalibrated it, so to speak.” — Jeannique Sanders
  • “If you are interested in doing work that is covert, there are opportunities. The word of the year is finesse.” — Jeannique Sanders
• Result: Video goes viral. Jeannique is fired. Sets the stage for the episode’s exploration of what happens when culture war politics target education.

2. What is DEI and How Did It Take Center Stage?

• [03:01] Erin, higher ed reporter, explains DEI grew from the Civil Rights era into efforts to support underrepresented groups through programming, financial aid, and campus culture shifts.
  • “How do we create a culture that supports a broad range of students ... like identity-based student groups helping students connect?” — Erin [03:58]
• Initially, DEI work avoided controversy—even Republican-controlled governing boards promoted it as recently as 2019 and 2021.

3. The George Floyd Effect and the DEI Boom

• [05:09] The 2020 murder of George Floyd leads to a nationwide surge in DEI initiatives.
  • “Suddenly, corporations, government agencies, and universities were all grappling with the same urgent question: how do we address systemic racism?” — Margo Gray [05:14]
  • Over $1.7 billion pledged by corporations for racial justice.

4. The Political Backlash & Anti-DEI Legislation

• [07:25] By 2023, “the tides were beginning to shift” (Erin), as conservative think tanks began to spread model anti-DEI legislation.
  • North Carolina lawmakers and the Board of Governors quickly follow the lead of states like Florida and Texas.
  • [09:02] The Board of Governors votes to eliminate DEI programming—before any state law mandates it.

5. How the Ban Hit: UNC Chapel Hill as Case Study

• [13:17] Reagan, student editor, describes UNC Chapel Hill’s progressive bubble clashing with state politics.
  • “Our administration is kind of subject to the whims of the legislature ... a lot of the friction and the tension has been.” — Reagan [14:16]
• Programs deeply embedded in campus life: course requirements, hiring practices, student life.
• [15:19] The fallout: $5.4 million cut, 20 positions eliminated, 27 reassigned overnight.
• [15:34] Immediate ripple effect to classroom requirements; DEI themes quietly rebranded but not necessarily removed.
  • “I don’t think we are completely erasing anything ... just trying to rename things.” — Reagan [16:22]

6. The ‘Accuracy in Media’ Sting Videos

• [17:14] Accuracy in Media, a conservative watchdog, uses undercover journalism to “expose” faculty discussing ongoing DEI work under new names across several NC universities.
  • Videos go viral, lead to firings or resignations for at least three faculty within days.
  • [22:55] “Faculty were extremely skeptical that you could have an investigation that was thorough and fair hours after a video emerges ... and now they’re no longer employed.” — Erin

7. Confusion, Fear, and the Chilling Effect

• [23:11] Faculty and administrators describe wide confusion about what counts as DEI and growing fear of scrutiny or termination.
  • “It’s like you’re driving on the road. You know there’s a lot of police officers around, but you don’t know the speed limit … You’re just trying not to be the fastest car on the road.” — Faculty Assembly Chair Wade, paraphrased by Erin [24:16]
• Professors proactively scrub syllabi and course descriptions to avoid risk.
• Students fear departments (such as Africana Studies) could be shuttered.

8. Official Response: ‘Nothing Has Changed’

• [26:26] University says classes are still available; only mandates have changed. Professors and students remain skeptical, noting real changes in what is required and taught.
  • “Academic freedom remains untouched ... No one should worry that their education has been compromised in any way.” — Dean of Undergraduate Education, UNC Chapel Hill [26:51]
  • “It’s the fear. It’s the chilling effect.” — Erin [27:24]

9. The New Compliance Committees

• [28:02] UNC quietly introduces new oversight: each campus forms a committee to evaluate DEI compliance, with faculty jobs at stake for non-compliance.
  • “It was just posted at the bottom of a webpage that we stumbled upon ... to determine whether DEI has truly been eliminated.” — Reagan [28:19]
  • First compliance reports submitted September 1, 2025.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The word of the year, she said, is finesse.” — Margo Gray, describing covert DEI work [01:51]
• “DEI really was something that there was broad consensus on ... even as the purple state with a Republican-led legislature.” — Reagan [07:03]
• “People questioning ... what really is this work, what is a political litmus test versus what is student support?” — Erin [07:25]
• “You just might see it called different things.” — Western Carolina faculty (as cited by Margo Gray) [19:19]
• “Is that something that had to be changed? Or is that exempt because students don’t have to take that major?” — Erin, on confusion over new DEI rules [23:43]
• “One story that sticks out ... is at UNC Charlotte, there was a student ... who decided to return ... to finish her degree because she thought that this degree might not be offered much longer. And I think that’s really telling.” — Reagan [25:48]
• “After all, if you’re a department chair, why prioritize a class that’s no longer required and is under scrutiny by the board?” — Margo Gray [25:33]
• “It’s much different to see it come to your home state ... and the impacts of that on individual employees. It’s the fear. It’s the chilling effect.” — Erin [27:24]

---

Timeline of Key Events

• 2019: UNC Board of Governors (Republican majority) expands DEI programming
• 2020: George Floyd’s murder prompts nationwide surge in DEI
• 2023: Political opposition to DEI grows; anti-DEI legislation templates circulate
• Early 2025: UNC Board of Governors preemptively bans all DEI programming/systemwide
• Spring 2025: Secret videos of faculty admitting to continuing DEI circulate; multiple firings/resignations
• June–September 2025: UNC system implements compliance committees for ongoing oversight

---

Major Takeaways

• The rise and dismantling of DEI in North Carolina higher education was sudden and largely driven by external political forces, not internal campus debates.
• Even as formal DEI is banned, much of the work is being covertly continued, although under increasing threat.
• “Undercover journalism” efforts by groups like Accuracy in Media are creating a climate of fear and leading to rapid job losses for faculty.
• The uncertainty around the rules—and the new compliance bodies—have created a chilling effect, leading to preemptive self-censorship and fear for the viability of certain disciplines and programs.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a nuanced, human-focused look at a national debate playing out in real time, showing both how political maneuvers impact campus realities and how students, faculty, and administrators are adapting, resisting, or leaving. It’s a cautionary tale of how culture wars reverberate far beyond the headlines, reshaping American higher education in profound and often unseen ways.

Transcript

[Margo Gray]

Just wrapped another chilling case or unsolved mystery? Give your brain a break and keep the thrill going with Chumba Casino, your online social casino where fun's just a click away. Play slots, blackjack and live casino games, all without downloads or pressure. Sign up to claim your free welcome bonus. Plus daily login rewards to keep the excitement rolling. Chumba Casino. When the case is closed, the real fun begins. No purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware prohibited by law 21 T's and C's apply.

[Kristen Bell]

Ready to level up. Champa Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like blackjack, slots and solitaire anytime, anywhere, with fresh releases every week. Whether you're at home or on the go. Let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you. Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus. Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today. No purchase necessary. VGW Group void board prohibited by law 21/TNCs apply.

[Margo Gray]

Jeanque Sanders thought she was having a private conversation. A woman had walked into her office at UNC Charlotte asking questions about diversity, equity and inclusion.

[Reagan]

I'm just going to give you a real spill.

[Margo Gray]

Yeah, about to hide it because I have a general feeling that you're fine.

[Erin]

And that you won't go back.

[Margo Gray]

This was spring 2025, just months after North Carolina had ordered its public universities to shut down their dei. The woman wanted to know, was diversity work still happening on campus? Janique, then assistant director of leadership and community Engagement, spoke candidly. So we've renamed it. So we've renamed it, we've revised it, we've recalibrated it, so to speak.

[Reagan]

So equity work is still happening on campus.

[Margo Gray]

She explained that while there were no outward DEI positions at the school, there were covert opportunities. If you're looking for, like, outward dei, not to happen. But if you are interested in doing work that is covert, there are opportunities. The word of the year, she said, is finesse. What Janique didn't know was that she was being filmed. Soon the video would be everywhere and she'd lose her job. I'm Margo Gray. This week on Campus, how universities are navigating the rise and rapid fall of diversity, equity and inclusion.

[Erin]

I first got started covering higher ed when I was a reporter at my college newspaper. I always found higher ed to be this complicated space where it was a microcosm of some of our biggest debates on a really intense stage, and the politics at the same time. Are a lot more complicated.

[Margo Gray]

This is Erin, a higher education reporter for the assembly, A digital magazine that covers stories across North Carolina. Erin has covered all sorts of topics in higher education. Sports, finances, state politics. But lately, one topic keeps coming up. DEI, which stands for diversity, equity and inclusion.

[PJ Vogt]

DEI, DEI, DEI, DEi.

[Margo Gray]

It's the number of people that you have in the organization that mirror the labor force availability. DEI isn't brand new. Its roots trace back to the civil rights movement, and over the years, it's gone by different names. Back in the 90s, for example, you might have seen a multicultural affairs center on a college campus. But strip away the changing terminology and supporters say the mission has always been the to make institutions more representative, more equitable, and more welcoming for everyone.

[Erin]

How do we create a culture that supports a broad range of students and that takes shape in a lot of different ways? That might be support in admission and scholarships and financial aid. It might look like, you know, identity based student groups helping students connect with their peers to support underrepresented groups on campuses.

[Margo Gray]

For years, DEI received relatively little public attention, but recently, it's become a lightning rod in America's culture wars, Especially on college campuses. And nowhere is that transformation more dramatic than in North Carolina. Not long ago. In 2019, the UNC Board of Governors, which governs all 16 public universities in the state, voted to require DEI programming at its schools. This was a group of republican appointees voting to expand diversity work, and at the time, it barely made the news.

[Reagan]

I remember myself trying to look for more information about the conversations and the debate taking place at that time, but it really kind of seemed like an.

[Erin]

Uncontroversial framework for campuses to pursue at that time.

[Margo Gray]

And North Carolina's public universities were about to double down on DEI because in 2020, the murder of George Floyd sent institutions across the country scrambling. Suddenly, corporations, government agencies, and universities Were all grappling with the same urgent how do we address systemic racism?

[Erin]

I was a student on campus during George Floyd, and I saw how universities reacted to that, Often leaning heavily on their DEI offices and wanting to implement more resources into those offices to meet this moment. And we saw that in corporate America as well.

[Margo Gray]

The tech giants are among a growing number of American companies facing a racial recogn reckoning in the aftermath of George Floyd's killing. From Ben and Jerry's to band aid, so far, companies have pledged more than $1.7 billion to advance racial justice.

[Ad]

I know personally that five years ago, they didn't want to hear words like racism, diversity, changing demographics, and yet now it's part of the everyday lexicon.

[Margo Gray]

The UNC Board of Governors responded by creating a racial equity task force which gave schools a concrete list of mandates, hire more DEI staff, expand diversity education and ramp up inclusion efforts across campuses. North Carolina's university system was all in.

[Erin]

There was just a lot of discussion about race and debate about how universities in North Carolina approached their own history and how they made your students on campus felt included.

[Margo Gray]

Today, the notion of Republicans championing DEI initiatives seems unlikely, even improbable. But this wasn't that long ago. As recently as July 2021, the Board of Governors sent out a statement calling diversity and inclusion fundamental to the success of our universities and our state.

[Reagan]

DEI really was something that there was broad consensus on up and even as the purple state with a Republican led legislature and a board of trustees that at that point in time was mostly conservatives.

[Margo Gray]

But by the time Erin started covering higher education in 2023, just two years later, that commitment was already beginning to unravel.

[Erin]

The tides were beginning to shift and this opposition start to rise. People questioning like the way universities and others were going about this, the language surrounding dei, the muddying of the waters of what really is this work, what is a political litmus test versus what is student support? And those sorts of debates started to permeate.

[Margo Gray]

Aaron started noticing something happening across the country. Anti DEI efforts were quietly gaining momentum. Conservative think tanks were circulating what's called model legislation. These are essentially pre written bills that outside groups draft and then hand off to lawmakers, ready made, with little need for changes. Over the years, both Democrats and Republicans have used model legislation to shape everything from gun laws to voting rights to abortion policy. In this case, the model legislation had a specific dismantling DEI programs in higher education. Florida and Texas were the first states to run with it.

[Erin]

It's always the little bit of a delay in getting to North Carolina as sort of more of a battleground purple state. But I think that sent the message that something was going to come in North Carolina for many people.

[Margo Gray]

And that's exactly what happened. Before long, North Carolina lawmakers were floating the idea of an anti DEI law. And the Board of Governors, the group in charge of the universities, was paying close attention.

[Erin]

And that's how a lot of policy changes seem to take shape in North Carolina. That the legislature signals they want something and the governing board responds.

[Margo Gray]

The Board of Governors did just that. Before any state law was even passed, they voted to eliminate DEI programming at every public university in the state. Breaking news. It appears that diversity and inclusion policies within the UNC system are on the chopping block across Dozens of students tried this morning to get inside the UNC Board of Governors. Meeting space was limited. Many waited outside and protested against changes to the DEI policy. At several schools, DEI offices were shut down with no replacements. Other schools restructured existing offices, changing names and rewriting mission statements. Across the UNC System, more than $16 million previously dedicated to DEI was redirected elsewhere. What's striking is how quickly the shift happened. These programs disappeared almost as quickly as they had expanded. And in both moments when they were built up and when they were dismantled, the momentum didn't come from inside the universities. It was driven by politics on the outside. So when Trump returned to office, you could see what was coming next. He'd campaigned on dismantling diversity programs, and on his first day back in the White House, he signed an executive order ending DEI in federal agencies.

[Ad]

Diversity, equity and inclusion in the federal workplace is ending. The Trump administration is ordering all federal employees in Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, or dei. All those roles be placed on paid administrative leave by tonight.

[Margo Gray]

The message resonated with North Carolina's Board of Governors. While they'd already shut down DEI programming across the state's universities, they were about to take things even further. Fall is in full swing and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look chic, stay warm and save big without compromising on quality. Quince has all the essentials you could ask for, from wool coats to washable silk tops and skirts. Personally, I've been loving their denim pieces which are designer level quality at a fraction of the price. By partnering directly with ethical top tier factories, Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quintz. Go to quince.com campus for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com campus to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com campus.

[PJ Vogt]

Hi, I'm PJ Vogt and I want to tell you about my podcast search engine. We try to make sense of the world one question at a time. No question too big, no question too small. We will even answer your questions if you them in stuff like what happens when a cemetery goes out of business? What should we do about teens using AI to do their homework? Who buys luggage at the airport luggage store? Follow and listen to search engine in partnership with Odyssey. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kristen Bell]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell, and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[Ad]

We're really doing this, huh?

[Kristen Bell]

Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.

[Jordan Robinson]

Goodbye, Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Of course, we kept the favorite.

[Ad]

Hello, other Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.

[Margo Gray]

The University of North Carolina system is one of the oldest in the country. Sixteen universities, each with its own identity and politics. So when their DEI programs got dismantled, the fallout was different everywhere. But perhaps nowhere did it hit harder than at UNC Chapel Hill.

[Reagan]

On the UNC Chapel Hill campus, it's kind of this bubble of, like, very, very liberal. I don't think it really reflects the state as a whole. We have been known as a swing state, but we have been leaning red in the past few years.

[Margo Gray]

This is Reagan. She's a sophomore at UNC Chapel Hill, and she's a news editor for the student paper, the Daily Tar Heel.

[Reagan]

There is some diversity in viewpoints there, but being on a campus that's fairly liberal with a lot of young people, it does lean blue in a way that somebody wouldn't think of when they think North Carolina.

[Margo Gray]

UNC Chapel Hill leans progressive. But like every other school in the system, it's still at the mercy of state politics. Here's why. The 24 members of the Board of Governors, which sets policy for all 16 campuses, are elected by state legislatures. Schools have to follow the board's decisions or risk losing their funding. Even when those decisions go against what students and faculty want.

[Reagan]

Our administration is kind of subject to the whims of the legislature. The decisions they make affect our funding as a public university. So if we don't comply with any standards they set for us as a public institution, then our funding is subject to be taken. And I think that's where a lot of the friction and the tension has been.

[Margo Gray]

That tension came to a head when the Board of Governors voted to eliminate DEI programs across its universities. At UNC Chapel Hill, these programs weren't just add ons. They were embedded in the fabric of campus life. They shaped course requirements and even influenced hiring, where new faculty were asked to submit diversity statements. For some, the expansion went too far. Critics said it felt less like student support and more like an ideological litmus test. So when the rollback came, there was A lot to unravel. Overnight, $5.4 million was cut, 20 positions eliminated, and 27 reassigned.

[Reagan]

I would say it was a massive deal to students, at least just from the perspective of a student reporter. We were finding new things to cover about it every day, like how it impacted every facet of campus and tangible impacts.

[Margo Gray]

And the impact didn't stop there. It soon reached the classroom. Shortly after Trump's election, the Board of Governors issued another directive. Every campus had to eliminate any course requirements connected to diversity, equity, and inclusion. The mandate left campuses scrambling. Take UNC Chapel Hill. Students there were required to complete a general education requirement called Power, Difference, and Inequality. With hundreds of courses to choose from overnight, the university had to find a workaround. Professors rushed to scrub DEI language from their syllabi, and administrators rebranded the requirement itself. Power, Difference, and Inequality became power in society. I asked Reagan how much that would actually change things.

[Reagan]

I don't think that we are completely erasing anything to do with any topic like race theory or anything mentioning women and gender studies. I think it's just trying to rename things and be more intentional and, like, explain to the higher ups, like, this is why I'm teaching this. This is why this matters. This is not garbage.

[Margo Gray]

In other words, even with the ban in place, DEI topics weren't disappearing entirely from required courses. And Reagan says they weren't vanishing from campus life either. That reality that DEI work was still visible frustrated some critics, and one group in particular took notice. Accuracy in Media.

[Reagan]

They call themselves, I believe, undercover journalists or investigators, and they kind of, like, market themselves as a watchdog organization.

[Margo Gray]

Accuracy in Media was founded in 1969 by economist Reid Irvine, who believed mainstream outlets were plagued by liberal bias. From the beginning, he took a unique approach, writing letters to editors to call out what he saw as slanted coverage. And if his letters weren't published, he'd simply pay for an ad space and run them himself. Over the years, the group has championed a range of issues, from defending the Vietnam War to denying the impact of climate change. And their playbook has evolved. What began with letters and editorials has shifted into what they now call undercover journalism.

[Reagan]

And they go into these public universities, cameras kind of on them, but hidden, and they pose as either a student or somebody just curious about what formally was DEI at the university. And they ask people, primarily, I think, whose positions had been realigned post the DEI ban. Is there still equity work being done, that type of thing.

[Margo Gray]

Reagan had seen their videos exposing faculty doing DEI work in Texas and Florida states where bans against DEI had also gone into effect. She figured it was only a matter of time before Accuracy in Media set their sights on North Carolina. And she was right. On May 28, 2025, the group released a video featuring Jeannique Sanders, the UNC Charlotte faculty member we heard about at the start of the episode. If you're looking for like a outward PI position, not to happen. But if you are interested in doing work that is covert. Then came a video of Megan Pugh, dean of students at UNC Asheville, caught on camera saying she loves breaking rules and continuing DEI efforts. She was caught on video reportedly implying that the university was not in compliance with DEI restrictions. Soon after, another video surfaced, this time of a faculty member at Western Carolina University.

[Reagan]

So the work is still occurring very.

[Margo Gray]

Much here at Western. You just might see it called Different Things. Then another video from UNC Wilmington. In both cases, the faculty members admitted that DEI work hadn't stopped, it was just happening under different names and accuracy. And media wasted no time sharing those findings with the public.

[Ad]

As our investigation into North Carolina's public university system continues, Accuracy in Media has once again uncovered staff openly defying the state's ban on dei.

[Margo Gray]

The videos were out. Faculty were exposed. The question now what would the schools do about it?

[Ad]

This podcast is sponsored by MIDI Health. Are you in midlife? Feeling dismissed, unheard, or just plain tired of the old healthcare system? You're not alone. For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored and met with a just deal with it attitude. Today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. It's time for a change. It's time for miti. MITI is a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders. MITI is the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies. Making high quality expert care accessible and affordable. MIDI offers a full range of personalized solutions, from hormonal therapies and weight loss protocols to lifestyle coaching and preventative health guidance. At MIDI, you will join patients who feel seen and heard. MITI's mission is to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the healthcare they deserve. Because MITI believes midlife isn't the middle at all, it is the beginning of your second act. Ready to write your second act script? Visit joinmidi.com today. That's joinmitty.com the Care Women Deserve It's Wednesday Addams.

[Reagan]

I see you're trying to distract yourself from your own banal thoughts.

[Margo Gray]

Let me help. Here's a recording thing made of my.

[Reagan]

Latest Root Canal.

[Margo Gray]

Wednesday Season 2 is now playing only on Netflix.

[Ad]

University of North Carolina in Charlotte, an administrator just got exposed dei's ban, but that's not stopping the assistant director of Leadership and Community Engagement from sneaking DEI into the curriculum.

[Kristen Bell]

In the now viral video, she suggests.

[Margo Gray]

The school was skirting the state's ban on DEI programs.

[Ad]

We reached out to the school for comment on the undercover DEI and they said this the employee's statements were inaccurate and do not reflect UNC Charlotte's actions in June 2025.

[Margo Gray]

The accuracy in Media videos took North Carolina by storm. Republican politicians and policymakers in the state cited them as proof that DEI work was still happening and that universities were openly flouting the rules. North Carolina Senate leader Phil Berger tweeted, dei, no matter what name or acronym you use, doesn't belong in education. The universities responded quickly. Within days, three of the four employees caught on camera were out of their jobs, though it's still unclear whether they were fired or pressured to resign. The fourth employee was placed under investigation. Here's Erin again.

[Erin]

I think what was interesting was the speed at which this happened. I think faculty were extremely skeptical that you could have an investigation that was thorough and fair hours after a video emerges, and now they're no longer employed at an institution.

[Margo Gray]

The school's response, Erin says, has contributed to an atmosphere of fear among faculty, in part because even when faculty want to follow the rules, there's still widespread confusion about what those rules actually mean. For example, universities understand that they need to drop DEI related graduation requirements, but the rules around major specific requirements are much less clear. Let's say you're an English major focusing on British and American literature. Are you no longer required to take a course in multiethnic literature?

[Erin]

Is that something that had to be changed? Or is that exempt because students don't have to take that major? They don't have to take English at all. They don't even have to choose that concentration.

[Margo Gray]

Consider social work students, for example. To become a licensed social worker in North Carolina, you have to pass a state exam that includes diversity and inclusion topics. But under the new rules, undergraduates may no longer be required to take the very courses that cover those topics. Here's how one top official described what it's like navigating these new rules.

[Erin]

Rules the faculty assembly chair, Wade, said, the current environment is like you're driving on the road. You know, there's a lot of police officers around, but you don't know the speed limit, and the speed limit's not posted anywhere. So you're just trying not to be the fastest car on the road. It creates really just a challenging place for faculty to navigate. Everyone trying to look at what everyone else is doing to judge where they should be.

[Margo Gray]

Without clear guidance, Some professors are acting preemptively, trying to stay ahead of potential penalties.

[Reagan]

We've heard anecdotal evidence that faculty in general were looking at their syllabi, maybe examining some of the language in their courses, in their descriptions, trying to think about the words today that are really falling under this broader umbrella of DEI that are drawing scrutiny even in things like grants. We've heard of people just on not even being pushed by the university or anything to examine this, wanting to sort of preemptively avoid scrutiny or just maybe try to take some of the potential heat off of them.

[Erin]

So I think a lot of people just had that concern of, like, how do these courses continue in this era?

[Margo Gray]

After all, if you're a department chair, why prioritize a class that's no longer required and is under scrutiny by the board of governors? Students worry this logic could eventually lead to the dismantling of entire departments.

[Reagan]

One story that sticks out in particular is at UNC Charlotte, there was a student who didn't finish her degree. She started in, like, the 1980s, but never finished her degree in Africana studies. She decided to return in this past year to finish her degree because she thought that this degree might not be offered much longer. And I think that's really telling that in this moment, where we haven't heard much specifics about how these disciplines and programs are being impacted, that students in particular are taking this to mean that the system is maybe walking back support for these disciplines and programs.

[Margo Gray]

Still, the UNC system says there's nothing to worry about and that nothing has changed.

[Erin]

The UNC system has tried to say that they're just not mandating students to take classes, but these classes aren't going away. So academic freedom is not restricted. That's sort of the UNC system's argument that the content still exists. Faculty students can still learn and teach this content.

[Margo Gray]

At UNC Chapel Hill, the dean of undergraduate education said professors academic freedom remains untouched and students continue to enjoy a fantastic variety of course choices. No one should worry that their education has been compromised in any way. But with faculty already changing course titles and removing DEI language from syllabi, many on campus aren't convinced. And Aaron suspects the pressure to avoid diversity topics has only grown since the firings that followed the Accuracy in Media Videos.

[Erin]

Even though people knew this group existed and that these critics were out there. It's much different to see it come to your home state or see your colleague impacted, or see your campus being included in these videos and the impacts of that on individual employees. It's the fear. It's the chilling effect.

[Margo Gray]

And that chilling effect could soon grow stronger. In late June, just a few weeks after the Accuracy in Media Videos, the Board of Governors quietly introduced a new policy. It requires each campus to set up a committee to evaluate its compliance with the anti DEI policy.

[Reagan]

So now members from the University's Board of Trustees will evaluate how their schools have implemented DEI related policies and changes. And the UNC system did not announce this in a public way. It was just posted at the bottom of a webpage that we just stumbled.

[Margo Gray]

Upon basically to determine whether DEI has truly been eliminated. The new compliance committees are examining everything from mission statements and course descriptions to the way staff are trained. Their first reports went to the Board of governors on September 1 and the stakes are high. Faculty who are deemed to be non compliant could be called before the Chancellor and the Board of Trustees. Their jobs are on the the line. And for students, the future of what can be taught hangs in the balance. Campus Files is an Odyssey Original Podcast this episode was written and reported by Margo Gray. Campus Files is produced by Ian Mont Eliot Adler and me, Margo Gray. Our executive producers and story editors are Maddie Sprunkiser and Lloyd Lockridge. Campus Files is edited, mixed and mastered by Chris Basel and Andy Jaskowicz. Special thanks to Jenna Weiss Berman, J.D. crowley, Leah Rhys, Dennis, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Schuff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman and Hilary Van Ornam. Original theme music by James Waterman and Davey Sumner. If you have tips or story ideas, write to [e-mail].

[Ad]

Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. You received it. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra Value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5 only at McDonald's for a limited time.

[PJ Vogt]

Prices and participation may vary.

[Jordan Robinson]

What's up guys? I'm Jordan Robinson, host of the podcast the Women's Hoop Show. We're heading towards the home stretch of the WNBA season and there is so much to get into every episode. Twice a week I'm joined by one of my amazing co hosts as we dissect the biggest games, performances and even some off court drama. The playoffs are quickly approaching. And now is the best time to tune in. Who will come away as this year's champion? The competition is heating up and so are we. Listen to and follow the women's Hoop show, available now wherever you get your podcasts.