Hot for Chancellor - Part 1

Summary

Campus Files Podcast Summary: "Hot for Chancellor - Part 1"

Episode Overview "Hot for Chancellor - Part 1," an episode of the Audacy original podcast Campus Files, delves into the intriguing and controversial story of Joe Gao, the former Chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse. This episode uncovers the events leading to Gao's downfall, exploring themes of free speech, personal conduct, and institutional integrity within American higher education. Through interviews, firsthand accounts, and detailed reporting, the episode provides a comprehensive look at how personal actions can intersect disastrously with professional responsibilities.

---

1. Setting the Stage: Celebrations and Free Speech on Campuses

The episode begins by highlighting various American traditions that often go unnoticed, such as Shark Week, Banned Books Week, and Free Speech Week observed by college campuses. In 2018, during Free Speech Week, the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse's Chancellor Joe Gao invited adult film star and sex educator Nina Hartley to speak, sparking significant controversy.

Notable Quote:

Josh Moody [02:19]: "You may admit to knowing Nina Hartley from her role as William H. Macy's wife in the 1997 movie Boogie Nights. Get out. Go sleep on the couch."

---

2. Introducing Joe Gao: From Student Musician to Chancellor

To understand the complexity of the scandal, the podcast provides a background on Joe Gao. Before his administrative career, Gao was an aspiring musician and a student at Penn State University, where he earned his PhD in 1989. Dr. Jerry Zoltan, a professor emeritus at Penn State, recounts Gao's early years, highlighting his passion for music and his leadership in campus bands.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Jerry Zoltan [05:08]: "I met Joe Gao when I was already on the faculty in Communication Arts and Sciences, and he came here to earn a degree."

Joe Gao [07:18]: "He wasn't just doing cover versions of other people's music, he was writing some interesting stuff. You know, it held up at the time."

Gao's tenure as Chancellor began in 2007 at the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse, where he quickly became a beloved figure on campus, known for his live guitar performances and engaging presence.

---

3. The 2018 Nina Hartley Controversy

In 2018, Gao invited Nina Hartley to speak at the university, an event that was warmly received by students but met with disapproval from university officials. This decision led to public reprimand from the UW System president, resulting in Gao having to pay Hartley's $5,000 speaking fee from his own pocket after the Board of Regents denied him a raise and audited his expenses.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Jerry Zoltan [03:08]: "That followed University of Wisconsin's chancellor Joe Gao under fire for hiring a porn star to give a speech."

Carmen Wilson [03:24]: "Nina Hartley, who's been in the studio, legendary. Very nice woman."

Gao's connection to Hartley extended beyond professional, laying the foundation for future controversies.

---

4. A Decade of Leadership and Preliminary Scrutiny

For ten years, Gao led the university without significant issues, with enrollment increasing by 5% during his tenure. His approachable style and active engagement on campus made him a popular figure among students. However, beneath the surface, tension brewed between Gao and the university's higher administration, particularly concerning governance and institutional reputation.

Notable Quote:

Joe Gao [09:30]: "I'll be showing you a little."

Despite his successes, the seeds of conflict were sown with the earlier incident involving Hartley, hinting at underlying challenges in Gao's administration.

---

5. The Emergence of the Adult Content Scandal

In late 2023, Chancellor Gao and his wife, Carmen Wilson, began producing and uploading adult content under the username "Sexy Happy Couple" on platforms like Pornhub and XHamster. Their activities included professionally shot videos, some of which featured collaborations with known adult film stars like Sophie Marie and Nina Hartley. These videos were initially unprotected by paywalls, allowing public access and leading to widespread shock upon discovery.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Jerry Zoltan [14:04]: "They previously had an OnlyFans behind a paywall that no one really noticed."

Carmen Wilson [14:27]: "Are the sexy happy couple."

The content was highly professional, mirroring productions seen on mainstream networks, which added to the controversy given Gao's position as a tenured professor and chancellor.

---

6. Institutional Response and Immediate Fallout

Once the university became aware of Gao's activities, the Board of Regents took swift action, leading to his dismissal seven months before his planned retirement. The Board cited discomfort with Gao and his wife's production and participation in pornographic videos as the primary reason for termination.

Notable Quotes:

Gao [16:23]: "Gao says the board fired him because they were uncomfortable with him and his wife producing and appearing in pornographic videos."

Dr. Jerry Zoltan [16:31]: "And when it was brought to the attention of university officials, he was denounced by top administrators and the Universities of Wisconsin Board of Regents, who called his behavior abhorrent."

However, firing a tenured professor is a complex and rare occurrence, prompting a detailed investigation into Gao's conduct and the processes surrounding his dismissal.

---

7. The Legal Battle and Free Speech Debate

The podcast explores the legal implications of Gao's actions, particularly focusing on First Amendment rights versus institutional codes of conduct. First Amendment attorneys from the foundation Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) argued that Gao was being wrongfully terminated for his private speech. They contended that university professors are entitled to personal freedoms, even if their private actions become public.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Jerry Zoltan [20:20]: "He’s being fired for his private speech. That university professors have First Amendment rights and they're allowed to have private lives, even if they do things like Joe Gao did."

Gao defended his actions by stating that his activities were personal, consensual, and not financially motivated, although evidence later contradicted his claims about the financial aspects.

---

8. Financial Aspects and Public Reaction

Contrary to Gao's assertions that his adult content ventures were non-profit hobbies, it emerged that he and his wife had invested approximately $80,000 into producing their adult videos, with minimal financial return from platforms like OnlyFans and Loyal Fans. The scandal attracted significant public attention, leading to both ridicule and sympathy. A local brewery even released a beer named "Hot for Chancellor," emblazoned with a playful depiction of Gao, which he humorously endorsed by picking up a four-pack.

Notable Quotes:

Margo Gray [23:02]: "All the public seems to view this with a lot of amusement. A local brewery released a beer in his honor called Hot for Chancellor with a rather creative label of him, basically in the nude."

Public opinion was divided, with some viewing the scandal as a humorous anecdote and others questioning the appropriateness of Gao's actions given his influential position.

---

9. The Formal Dismissal Process and Final Verdict

As a tenured professor, Gao faced an arduous process to secure his dismissal. The university organized a quasi-judicial public hearing before a committee of five faculty members. Both the university and Gao presented their cases, with the university citing unethical and potentially illegal conduct based on Gao's statements in his published books under pen names—which described real-life sexual activities—as proof of misconduct.

Notable Quotes:

Carmen Wilson [25:26]: "17 yes, zero, no. The motion passes. Thank you."

The Board of Regents ultimately voted unanimously to fire Gao, marking the end of his long-standing career at the university.

---

10. Aftermath and Continuing Controversy

Despite his dismissal, Gao and his wife continued to produce and promote adult content, maintaining their online presence and even agreeing to interviews with the Campus Files team. Their continued activity in the adult entertainment sphere keeps the conversation about the balance between personal freedom and professional responsibility alive.

Notable Quotes:

Sophie Marie [26:17]: "I've gotten a whole lot of attention because I was in the Chancellor job and it was a very high profile thing and fired."

Carmen Wilson [26:27]: "So I have found that sometimes things pile up in my freezer."

---

Conclusion: Looking Ahead

The episode concludes by setting the stage for the next installment of the series, promising to delve deeper into the personal and professional fallout from Gao's actions. It underscores the complexities institutions face when addressing misconduct that intertwines personal freedom with public responsibility.

Production Credits: The episode was written and reported by Elliot Adler, produced by Ian Mont Eliot Adler and Margo Gray, with executive producers Maddie Sprunkheiser and Lloyd Lockridge. Editing and mixing were handled by Chris Basel and Andy Jaskowicz, and music was composed by James Waterman and Davey Sumner.

---

Key Takeaways:

• Leadership and Personal Conduct: Gao's case illustrates the thin line between a leader's personal actions and their professional responsibilities.
• Free Speech vs. Institutional Integrity: The debate surrounds whether personal freedoms should be constrained by professional roles, especially in educational institutions.
• Tenure and Accountability: Firing a tenured professor poses significant challenges and requires substantial evidence of misconduct.
• Public Perception: Scandals can simultaneously attract ridicule and support, reflecting diverse societal views on morality and professionalism.

This comprehensive exploration in Campus Files not only narrates a captivating scandal but also invites listeners to ponder broader questions about ethics, freedom, and the role of personal behavior in public service.

Transcript

[Narrator]

This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures. From Universal Pictures in Blumhouse come a storm of terror. From the director of the Shallows. The Woman in the Yard don't let her in. Where does she come from? What does she want? When will she leave? Today's the day. The Woman in the Yard only in theaters March 28th.

[Margo Gray]

Meghan Trainor, laundry Retrainer Meghan Trainor.

[Jordan Robinson]

You're tossing out my gunky laundry detergent.

[Josh Moody]

Bottle Ooey, it's got that booty that.

[Carmen Wilson]

Juicy bum boom that don't bite alive.

[Jordan Robinson]

Arm and hammer power sheets toss like.

[Margo Gray]

This Cause I toss like this A wash like this It's a no mess Laundry bliss Arm and hammer power she power to you this episode contains references to pornography and might not be suitable for younger listeners.

[Josh Moody]

Throughout the year, Americans celebrate all sorts of traditions that many of us aren't even aware of. In the summer, millions of people turn on their TV to celebrate Discovery Channel Shark Week.

[Narrator]

Supermodel Heidi Kloom swims with sharks.

[Josh Moody]

Each September, educators and libraries host public readings to commemorate Banned Books Week. If you walk around the library on.

[Jordan Robinson]

College street, you will see displays of books banned by organizations, schools, even entire states.

[Josh Moody]

And every October, college campuses observe Free Speech Week. You might not celebrate this in your everyday life, but universities across the US do. And in 2018, the University of Wisconsin's campus in the city of La Crosse marked this hallowed week by inviting adult film star and sex educator Nina Hartley to speak to the students.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

Basically, she was having a conversation, talking about pornography and feminism, answering questions from students about things like pornography and human trafficking, and just giving her view as someone who worked in the porn industry.

[Josh Moody]

You may admit to knowing Nina Hartley from her role as William H. Macy's wife in the 1997 movie Boogie Nights. Get out. Go sleep on the couch.

[Margo Gray]

Don't stop, big stud.

[Josh Moody]

You may be less willing to admit knowing Nina from one of her hundreds of adult movies, ranging from Nina Hartley's Guide to Spanking to her role as Hillary Clinton in the satirical pornographic film who's Nayland Palin? Nina had been invited by the University of Wisconsin, La Crosse's highest official, the chancellor, Joe Gao, and it seemed to.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

Be really well received by students. It was not as well received by system officials.

[Josh Moody]

Joe Gao's bosses did not approve of his decision to hire Nina Hartley, nor were they pleased with the national attention.

[Carmen Wilson]

That followed University of Wisconsin's chancellor Joe Gao under fire for hiring a porn star to give a speech.

[Josh Moody]

Who was it?

[Joe Gao]

Who was it?

[Carmen Wilson]

Nina Hartley, who's been in the studio, legendary. Very nice woman.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

She's like a doctor.

[Carmen Wilson]

She's now a sex educator chick.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

Very good.

[Carmen Wilson]

She was paid.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That actually makes sense.

[Josh Moody]

Following Hartley's speech, the university's Board of Regents denied Chancellor Gow a raise for that year and audited all of his expenses from the previous three years. To appease his higher ups. Chancellor Joe Gao ended up paying Nina Hartley's $5,000 speaking fee out of his own pocket. But that was far from the end of the story. It turned out that Joe's connection to Nina was far more personal and shocking than anyone could imagined.

[Margo Gray]

I'm Margo Gray. This week on Campus Files, UW Lacrosse.

[Josh Moody]

Faces a free speech controversy that goes.

[Margo Gray]

From unusual to unbelievable.

[Josh Moody]

To understand the rest of the story, we first need to do a background dive into the man at the center of it. Joe Gao. Before he was a headline grabbing university official, Joe Gao was a student. And we found someone who knew Joe Gao in his earlier years. Would it be alright if we used.

[Margo Gray]

Your voice in the story?

[Joe Gao]

I can't think of any reason why not. I mean, the only thing that crossed my mind is I see that Joe is active in talking to reporters, and the last thing I want to do is get caught up as, you know, some kind of turn code or something like that, but I don't know if that really be a factor. You called me and I can tell you a few things.

[Josh Moody]

This is Dr. Jerry Zoltan.

[Joe Gao]

I am a professor emeritus at Penn State University.

[Margo Gray]

For over 40 years, Dr. Zoltan worked in Penn State's communications department where he focused on the history of stand up comedy and rock and roll. He met Joe back in the early 1980s.

[Joe Gao]

I met Joe Gal when I was already on the faculty in Communication Arts and Sciences, and he came here to earn a degree. I think it was his PhD that he was working on. And we got to know each other, but really more as acquaintances. We didn't know each other well. We didn't spend a lot of close time together. But he started a band and I had a band. And there we were, you know, two people involved with this particular faculty, both trying to make music locally.

[Josh Moody]

What you're hearing right now is a disco remix of the Penn State fight song that Jerry released in the late 1970s.

[Joe Gao]

And sold, I think, close to 10,000 copies.

[Josh Moody]

Around the same time, Joe Gao was also trying to make it as a musician. He had a band called Johnny Deadline that he headlined as singer and guitarist.

[Joe Gao]

So in 1982, Joe's band made a four track EP here and I am holding in my hands and looking at a 33 and a third episode with four tracks, two on each side.

[Sophie Marie]

They call me Joker.

[Joe Gao]

I haven't played it for a while. I only pulled it out because the subject came up. But I remember they were good kind of new wave punk. Heck, I can send you a copy. I've got a little handful.

[Josh Moody]

As you can hear. Dr. Zoltan sent us a copy. This is track one titled Joe Cool.

[Joe Gao]

He wasn't just doing cover versions of other people's music, he was writing some interesting stuff. You know, it held up at the time.

[Josh Moody]

And I asked Dr. Zoltan what he thought Joe's aspirations were at the time.

[Joe Gao]

I'm guessing that his ambition was not unlike marring to have some sort of a breakthrough and get radio play in a region in the US and have it catch on and become a hit of some sort.

[Josh Moody]

We reached out to a few other people who knew Joe back when he was trying to make it as a musician. One of these people characterized Joe as a ham who enjoyed attention.

[Joe Gao]

He was a friendly, likable guy who clearly had some talent and panache and, you know, was willing to go out there and do what it took to make a name if he was at all like me. The academic side was kind of the fallback. You had your academic career, if all else failed.

[Margo Gray]

Neither Joe nor Dr. Zoltan made it big in the recording industry, but both found their way to successful academic careers.

[Josh Moody]

Dr. Zoltan taught at Penn State for over 40 years. He still plays music and recently appeared in Henry Louis Gates Jr. S documentary Gospel, which you can watch on P.

[Joe Gao]

I wish I could tell you a little more in depth about Joe, but again, just a musical rival and colleague is how I knew him.

[Margo Gray]

Joe gao earned his PhD at Penn State in 1989. From there he worked as a professor and later took on administrative roles at universities across the Midwest. By 2007, he was appointed Chancellor at the University of Wisconsin's campus in the city of La Crosse, becoming the university's top official. And he very quickly won students hearts with live guitar performances around campus.

[Josh Moody]

This is tape of a band that Joe Gao fronted that often played shows around campus.

[Sophie Marie]

I love being their chancellor.

[Joe Gao]

University.

[Josh Moody]

It's cool.

[Narrator]

I like doing this too.

[Joe Gao]

I'll be showing you a little.

[Josh Moody]

In case you didn't catch that, it's Joe saying, quote, I love being a Chancellor of the university. It's cool. But I like doing this too. Let me show you a little Chancellor Zhou had a solid 10 years at the helm without controversy. Enrollment numbers at the university increased by 5% in that period, and if you look through quotes in the student paper from the time period, the student body liked him. They seemed to get a kick out of how present he was on campus. But 2018 marked a change for Chancellor.

[Margo Gray]

Joe this is when he invited adult film star Nina Hartley to speak on campus.

[Josh Moody]

As we heard at the top of the episode.

[Margo Gray]

In a highly public reprimand, the UW System president who oversees all 13 UW campuses said he was deeply disappointed. Chancellor Zhou was warned that his future raises would depend on avoiding any similar behavior.

[Josh Moody]

Pretty immediately, the foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, also known as fire, a nonprofit founded to protect free speech on college campuses, accused UW System leaders of engaging in censorship. Chancellor Zhou managed to play it off by paying the speaker fee for Nina Hartley, and the issue was dropped. He enjoyed six more years free of scandal before announcing that the 20232024 school year would be his last as chancellor he was stepping down. The UW System president heaped nothing but praise on Chancellor Joe, saying he will be leaving UW lacrosse in a much better place than it was when he arrived. Chancellor Joe told Wisconsin Public Radio he was looking forward to being able to spend more time at home. His wife was writing a vegan cookbook while he was experimenting with online video production. And boy oh boy, was he.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone Paying Big Wireless Way too Much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Margo Gray]

Of 45 for 3 month plan equivalent.

[Ryan Reynolds]

To 15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price.

[Margo Gray]

Plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Ryan Reynolds]

See full [e-mail] are you ever minding your own business? And start to wonder, is the Great Pacific Garbage Patch real? How do the Northern Lights happen? Why is weed not legal yet? I'm Jonathan Van Ness and every week on Getting Curious, I sit down for a gorgeous conversation with a brilliant expert to learn all about something that makes me curious. Join me every Wednesday as we set off on a stunning journey of curiosity on a new subject and dive into the archive of more than 370 episodes. Listen to Getting Curious wherever you get your podcasts.

[Josh Moody]

To help tell the rest of the story, I want to reintroduce Josh Moody, who you heard at the very beginning of this episode. Josh is a reporter for Inside Higher Ed, a trade magazine that covers colleges and universities in the States.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

I write a lot of leadership and finance stories. So a college closing or merging or dealing with severe business issues.

[Josh Moody]

Hiring and firing in 2023, Joe Gao was stepping down from the chancellorship at the end of the academic year. But there was a hitch in soon to be Just Professor Joe's plan.

[Margo Gray]

We have breaking news tonight. UWL Chancellor Joe Gao has fired for producing online pornography.

[Joe Gao]

GA was on holiday break with his family in Florida when he got an email late Wednesday night telling him that he was fired.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

I was a little bit shocked and I've been a journalist long enough to not be shocked by much, so I knew this was certainly an unusual case.

[Josh Moody]

So here's what happened. Just before Thanksgiving Day 2023, Chancellor Joe and his wife created a profile on adult websites pornhub.com and xhamster.com and soon began uploading a few professionally shot videos of themselves having sex with titles like Juicy Anniversary and Bedroom Shenanigans.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

They previously had an only fans behind a paywall that no one really noticed. So they'd been creating this content for a little while, flying completely under the radar.

[Josh Moody]

A few weeks later, on December 8, 2023, Chancellor Joe and his wife released a cooking video on their YouTube page.

[Sophie Marie]

She's Carmen and he's Joe and we.

[Carmen Wilson]

Are the sexy happy couple. And this is sexy healthy cooking your go to show for plant based food.

[Josh Moody]

In the inaugural episode, they cooked vegan fajitas alongside adult film star Sophie Marie. The cooking videos also look professional, not unlike what you'd see on the Food Network.

[Carmen Wilson]

Well, the last step in our meal is to saute the vegetables for the fajitas.

[Josh Moody]

This is Joe's wife, Carmen Wilson.

[Sophie Marie]

Seems like a perfect time to show you the scene that we shot with Sophie yesterday and I think you're gonna enjoy it. We had quite a physical workout there.

[Carmen Wilson]

With her, so yes we did.

[Sophie Marie]

Here we go.

[Josh Moody]

From there, the cooking video transforms into two women suggestively sharing a glass of wine. The camera peeks up their skirts before fading out. Presumably that's when the X rated content begins. Here a screen pops up that says, to see the full uncut scene, visit our loyal fans page. But then all of a sudden, you're looking at slow motion shots of vegetables being sauteed before being welcomed back by Joe.

[Sophie Marie]

I don't know about you all, but that was a workout for me in that scene. We hope you enjoyed It.

[Margo Gray]

The next day, Sexy Happy Couple posted another cooking video with another porn star, with another cut to an adult scene and a link to their loyal fans page. Four days later, another video, this time featuring their old friend Nina Hartley. These videos were online for three weeks, completely unprotected by a paywall, before anyone at the university caught wind of them. And when they did, it sent shockwaves through campus.

[Josh Moody]

The couple have posted videos on porn websites under the username Sexy Happy Couple.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Gao says the board fired him because they were uncomfortable with him and his wife producing and appearing in pornographic videos.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

And when it was brought to the attention of university officials, he was denounced by top administrators and the Universities of Wisconsin Board of Regents, who called his behavior abhorrent.

[Josh Moody]

Almost immediately, the Board of Regents fired Joe Gao from his position as chancellor seven months before he was set to retire. But the story was far from over, because Joe Gao was not only the chancellor at University of Wisconsin, La Crosse, he was also a tenured professor there. And it's really hard to fire a tenured professor, especially at a public university.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

They begin investigating him. He does not comply with the investigation. He tries to slow it down.

[Margo Gray]

Joe and his wife didn't seem fazed. In fact, they kept posting videos to various adult sites and their Twitter feed, Exyhappy Couple, which had once featured mediocre shots of vegan food, began showcasing their faces and promoting their Onlyfans and Loyal Fans pages.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

I mean, I would guess that they were trying to capitalize on some of the publicity to steer folks towards their OnlyFans. I happened to find videos of them on Pornhub, and I was like, yep, this is the guy. Had to do some unfortunate due diligence there.

[Josh Moody]

It also comes out that they had published two books under pen names, One titled Married With Benefits, Our Real Life Adult Industry Adventures, and Monogamy With Benefits How Porn Enriches Our Relationship. Meanwhile, the strange wheels of justice that are the university discipline system slowly turn.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

The process to fire a tenured faculty member. Is this quasi judicial public hearing before a committee composed of several faculty members. Five in this case.

[Josh Moody]

And at the hearing, Joe is representing his side, fighting for his tenured professor.

[Margo Gray]

Position, while UW system lawyers work to persuade the faculty panel to recommend his dismissal.

[Josh Moody]

Let's start with the university's argument.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

University officials argued that Joe Gao should be fired for a number of things, basically bringing reproach on the system with his behavior. But they threw a litany of charges at him, like misusing university equipment, things like receiving vendor emails about sex toys. Printing a vegan cookbook on university equipment, that he failed to cooperate with the investigation into his behavior. But the ultimate thing that they argued in trying to fire him was that he was guilty of, quote, unethical and potentially illegal conduct. For example, they took things out of a couple of erotic books he had written with his wife under a pen name.

[Josh Moody]

In one of their books, Chancellor Joe and his wife talk about hiring a male sex worker named Tom, saying, we had broken the law, we had paid Tom for sex.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

And at the beginning of those, at least one book, maybe both, they say all these events are true, and they are presenting them as true stories. The university seized on these statements as basically admissions of illegal and unethical behavior.

[Margo Gray]

But when Josh spoke to First Amendment attorneys at fire, the free speech group that defended Chancellor Joe back in 2018, they disagreed with that argument.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

And they said he's being fired for his private speech. That university professors have First Amendment rights and they're allowed to have private lives, even if they do things like Joe.

[Josh Moody]

Gao did, which is basically what Chancellor Zhou was arguing.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

Zhou Gao has argued that his activity is completely protected by the First Amendment, that he did not harm anyone. That his activities were between himself, his wife, and other consenting adults. That he made no money off of these activities if he had, could potentially be a conflict of interest. But he referred to it instead as a very expensive hobby.

[Josh Moody]

You might be wondering how Joe could claim he didn't make any money.

[Margo Gray]

As it turns out, the type of.

[Josh Moody]

Content Joe and his wife were making came with a hefty price tag. Chancellor Joe has said that between paying performers, videographers and editors, the couple has spent upwards of $80,000 shooting pornography, making very little of that back via their onlyfans and loyal fans profiles.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

He also argued that state politics were.

[Josh Moody]

At play because just as this was unfolding, the UW system president had been battling with the Republican controlled legislature over funding.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

Joe Gao has suggested that he may have been a sacrificial lamb of sorts, that there was pressure to get rid of him. And indeed there was. Several Republican lawmakers tweeted statements or released press releases calling for his immediate firing.

[Margo Gray]

But Joe's coworkers didn't see it that way, and they certainly didn't come to his defense.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

I can give you some examples from the hearing. There were faculty members, at least one, the communications department chair who was called to testify against him, and she cast him as an ineffective teacher. Her testimony was pretty damning.

[Josh Moody]

Do you want Dr. Gao teaching in your department?

[Carmen Wilson]

I do not want Dr. Gao to teach in our department based on my past experience and observations of having in the classroom.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

But at the same time, he was Chancellor of the University of Wisconsin La Crosse for a very long time. 17 years. The average chancellorship is 5.9 years these days. So he had a pretty successful tenure.

[Josh Moody]

And public opinion. What did they think about it?

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

All the public seems to view this with a lot of amusement. A local brewery released a beer in his honor called Hot for Chancellor with a rather creative label of him, basically in the nude. I understand that he did stop in and pick up a four pack of that beer.

[Josh Moody]

And what about precedent?

[Margo Gray]

Josh told us that in recent years, with the rise of OnlyFans and similar platforms, there have been high profile cases involving K12 teachers. But at the university level, this may be the first of its kind. That left UW leadership facing an unprecedented question. What happens when a former public face of your institution becomes an amateur porn star? In July of 2024, public hearings on Joe Gao's case came to a close, and a faculty panel of his peers delivered their recommendation to the Board of Regents.

[Josh Moody]

The Universities of Wisconsin system is a step closer to removing former Chancellor Joe Gao as a tenured faculty member at the UW La Crosse.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

That decision was made by five UWL faculty members after a two day public hearing back in June. They wrote in their findings that he had placed himself in the public eye for personal gain and that in doing so, they believe he is in opposition to the University of Wisconsin La Crosse's interest.

[Margo Gray]

Meanwhile, as the Board of Regents weighed its decision, Joe and his wife kept promoting their adult content on Twitter alongside vegan cooking recipes.

[Sophie Marie]

We're waiting for the verdict and what have you cooked?

[Carmen Wilson]

So I have found that sometimes things pile up in my freezer.

[Margo Gray]

They were also reposting interviews that they'd given to various news outlets, from the Free Press to the Daily Mail to Wisconsin Public radio. Then, in September 2024, another hearing took place, this time between Joe and the Board of Regents.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

University makes their case, he makes his case.

[Margo Gray]

And after a brief closed session, the Board of Regents came back with a verdict.

[Carmen Wilson]

We have a motion and a second to adopt the proposed decision in order as the Board's final decision and order of dismissal. In the matter of Dr. Joseph Gao of UW La Crosse, this will be a roll call vote. Megan, would you please?

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

And then the board comes back with a unanimous recommendation to fire Joe Gao.

[Carmen Wilson]

17 yes, zero, no. The motion passes. Thank you.

[Dr. Jerry Zoltan]

As of late September, he is no longer a University of Wisconsin employee, so now he is weighing his legal options.

[Margo Gray]

Meanwhile, Joe Gao and his wife continue to promote their adult videos in the making of this episode. We reached out to them for an interview and to our surprise, not only did they agree, they invited us over.

[Sophie Marie]

I've gotten a whole lot of attention because I was in the Chancellor job and it was a very high profile thing and fired. But Carmen's story is equally interesting. It just doesn't tend to get told, for lack of a better metaphor. It's like Simon and Garfield Funko. I mean, you couldn't do it alone.

[Margo Gray]

That's next time on Campus Files. Original theme music by James Waterman and Davey Sumner. Special thanks to Joe Gao and Josh Ferco as well as Dr. Jerry Zoltan and Tom Kiter for letting us use their disco version A Fight on State. If you'd like a vinyl copy of this record recording, you can find Jerry at jerrysoltin.com Campus Files is an Odyssey Original podcast. This episode was written and reported by Elliot Adler. Campus Files is produced by Ian Mont Eliot Adler and me, Margo Gray. Our executive producers and story editors are Maddie Sprunkheiser and Lloyd Lockridge. Campus Files is edited, mixed, mixed and mastered by Chris Basel and Andy Jaskowicz. Special thanks to Jenna Weiss Berman, J.D. crowley, Leah Reese, Dennis, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Schuff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman and Hilary Van Ornam. Original theme music by James Waterman and Davy Sumner.

[Josh Moody]

If you have tips or story ideas.

[Margo Gray]

Write to [e-mail].

[Jordan Robinson]

I'm Jordan Robinson, host of the new podcast the Women's Hoop Show. Each episode I'll be joined by a rotating group of women's basketball experts to talk wnba, college hoops, the new unrivaled league, and the shifting landscape of the sport. The game is growing and so so are we. Listen to and follow the Women's Hoop show and Odyssey Podcast, available now for free on the Odysee app or wherever you get your podcasts.